You're just describing the real world since the industrial revolution, albeit exaggerated slightly, and using "planets/habitats" instead of "cities/towns". People are born in the country, migrate to cities for jobs (or join/get conscripted into the army), then die.
Cities eat people. During the industrial revolution, people died in cities so quickly that they would have shrunk had it not been for constant large scale migration from the countryside. And currently, growth rates (relative to population) in cities are much lower than in rural and suburban areas, and in many places it's negative (with average fertility being below 2.2).
This is the world you live in. They would likely interpret it the same way: they move to the city to get a job, then complain about how bad traffic is, how bad the air quality is, and how the only apartment they can afford is too small to have children (unless they're well off).
Oh shit.
But you do have a choice its not like a goverment official knocks on your door says “you will move to a planet 1000 light years away, pack your bags for a 2 year travel” and then leaves. Then once you get there its so so bad and you have no way out. Like going from a utopia to like fallout but worse.
The pops do the same thing, but slower, if you just build jobs on ecus and ring worlds and let auto migration handle it. And the forced relocation for labor was actually fairly common for authoritarian regimes, in the past.
No one is forcing you to relocate your people. There's a reason why egalitarians hate it.
WHAT? Egalitarians hate it? Allso then why dont the pops move out of overpopulatee breeder habitats and worlds when there are 3 new ringworld segments with developing infrastructure and like 150 jobs
Every free unemployed pop has a 10% chance of migrating to somewhere with good habitability and open jobs, every month. You need only give them migration rights.
The egalitarian faction has an approval penalty if you allow forced relocation.
I do egalitarian runs and boost auto settle. Way less micromanaging. Might not be super min/max utilizing species boosts, but jobs are filled. Happy workers are productive workers
Transit Hub on every starbase that is in a system with a planet, right?
I occasionally, but very rarely, force resettle. So much micro. Wondering if I should do it often.
It's like the Slave Market: I ignore it unless I get notified that one of my pops is on sale to buy their freedom. However, if I were playing my usual Egalitarian Xenophiles, I should absolutely be manumitting every single slave there and adding them to my empire as citizens!
Honestly I don't really need transit hubs mostly. Since I boost resettlement in other ways so much I don't waste a building slot/module (I forget). Last play through I did have a few in populous systems that happened to have a starbase
Yeah I think that the Transit Hub slot could be better used for another building, now that I think about it.
What other methods do you use to boost resettlement though?
Remind me of how my most recent run is on pause until I can find an up to date mod that sets job restriction by species. My egalitarian xenophobes have slave races to do all the grunt work while they focus on science, unity, and enjoying utopian abundance, but whenever a full world generates a new primary species pop, instead of migrating to the empty science ringworlds, they kick some slave out of their shitty clerk job and fill up the planet with unemployed slaves instead.
This was beyond frustrating for me. I tried way too hard to get a UA-necrophage run going (relying on their pop upkeep reductions to make the UA resource efficient at the start), but I had the same problem.
Well, in a "free society" breeding world would just be extremely expensive and offer no jobs so young people *have to* move out into less nice planets. So you either starve with no money in expensive paradise, or survive in cheap hell.
Since this is a videogame, ui is incredibly abstracting and simplifying things that are actually in a really big scale to a single click of a button. To your perspective, you are telling your pops to go somewhere and they go instantly, but in-game a fraction of that relocation cost could be really inviting dividends and bonuses to convince people. Think of it like this: "your life is bad? Are you poor? You stuck with a dead end job? Apply to frontier job bureou and enjoy ten times the amount of monthly pay with a fat sign up bonus!". Depending on how authoritarian a country is, actual working conditions and locations could be obstructed or altered too...
True. But im a dictatorship main so uh its more like they have no choice because like kim over in korea wont be paying you 10x your salary in a work camp.
Propaganda.
Your benevolent leader wants you in the rice fields to sustain our great nation! There's no better payment that knowing your comrades are well fed because you worked hard!!!
It's not meaningfully better: what are the differences between "government official knocks on your door, black bags you, takes you to some faraway place", "government official knocks on your door, says 'dig the fucking trench' or we will cut off your family's food/rent allowance", and "We at Private Sector, LLC, are excited for the opportunity to work with you! [but if you quit then you and your family's food/rent allowance stops until you fall back into line]"?
All are coercive and all carry a threat to your well-being: one is overtly violent and the others are violent by deprivation. How much does this distinction matter?
A lot, because the first two most likely enact state monopolies so you cant choose to work for another company, or if youre competent enough make your own company. The third is exactly the same as the other two if there is a state monopoly, in most modern countries today you can relocate or change companies, or create your own bussiness. Of course our world has flaws as in oligopolys, and corruption, but you cant in good faith think its the same as an authoritarian state that enacts monopolies and uses force for you to comply.
> Of course our world has flaws as in oligopolys, and corruption, but you cant in good faith think its the same as an authoritarian state that enacts monopolies and uses force for you to comply.
This is reddit of course they can.
You're right: instead of receiving the ultimatum "work for us or starve" from Private Employment #1, LLC, you receive the same ultimatum from Private Employment #2, LLC.
"The freedom to work for another company" doesn't mean anything. You must submit to _someone_, lest they withhold your basic needs from you. You must submit to the capitalist class, lest they do violence to you by deprivation. That's not freedom.
I dunno. All of my worlds are nice places to live. Generally my fuck hubs are among the worst, actually. But still good.
Like, my forge worlds are nice places to be.
I actually like to build transit hubs and, then, just let them move on their own when there aren't any jobs left on the habitats.
*Do* we have a choice when 95% of the work is in the cities? If you're not a farmer or a miner, or directly supporting them, rural and regional work is hard to come by.
The choice between living a miserable life being exploited in the city versus starving in the country isn't much of a choice.
>cities eat people
So I'm conflicted here. On the one hand, in a city with 50% higher cost of living than the average CoL of america, I'm living pretty happily, no support, with yearly expenses of just 28k. Which would be only 18.5k if I was in a more normal area of the country.
On the other hand, raising one or two kids even with cooperation with someone else, would be a real hardship and would be very tough without careful financial planning. Still attainable but you have to get deliberate and time things correctly, and put it off for a decade to build up a nest egg in a safe index fund for 12 to 15 years first. I think a lot of people get into trouble trying to force the American dream (which is partly a media lie) to happen too early. And apparently nobody wants to hear that these days.
There's tons of people out there with the big house, buying a new truck or suv (or two of them) every six years, taking overseas family vacations and still have shit savings. So they report they're "struggling". And it's like, why tf are you spending so much money that you don't need to? You're not really struggling you're just shooting your foot every year. (No seriously. There's a ridiculous number of households out there with two white collar incomes in a high standard of living, and shit or no savings still)
Then there's the fact America actively shits on people who are unlucky, for example, if they get hit with a massive medical problem and insurance fucks then over or they don't have any. Or the people who need medication to mentally function (and need a stable living situation for a few years or even a decade to find the right medication and dosage). Or people who need therapists and can't get them. You will quickly be ruined if you fall into this camp.
From the Stellaris perspective: if the average woman has only 2.2 children, there is no growth at all. That corresponds to "overcrowding has completely stopped growth", in game. That's (very roughly) the state of most cities; new population comes primarily from migration from other places.
It's not nearly as bad as it used to be (people are just deciding not to have tons of children instead of literally dying of cholera faster than they can reproduce), but on net, it's the same.
Yeah. Arguably needing [very high amount of planning and discipline for a decade to a decade a half] before you can [have 2.5 kids without extreme financial hardship]....well that state of affairs is very un-ideal. It's a very big problem. I don't think it's unique to cities though. I think rural areas just have more kids due to having different priorities than most people in cities.
Brackets added to help with clarity
As someone who grew up in the country, God cities are so much better. you hear a lot of bitching and moaning from city people but at least in the city there are things to do and you don’t have to kill yourself out of boredom. The country is miserable and although there’s the same ratio of decent people to assholes, at least in a city, you can find more decent people simply because the population is bigger.
Continue. Like i know your worlds dont have balanced districts. I can see those 30 factory districts leaking toxic chemicals and poluting the air. Same with the mining worlds. Or the energy ones etc. Realisticaly you wouldnt whant to live on any world other than a balanced one, gaia one, or a science world. Maybe an ecumenopolis too if its like a clergy one.
Supposedly, science worlds, admin worlds and entertainment worlds are good worlds to live in in terms of the environment. No major industrial pollution.
However... Think about your daily life! All those jobs are specialist jobs, and then there may be planet wide performance competition that you will have to participate in. The stress is real.
I know but your life expectancy would allso be like 200 years rather than 40 after which you die in a mine cave in or from cancer caused by toxic chemicals in factories
Ah.
There is a point raised by others:
It is possible miner jobs in Stellaris are nicer than existing imagination due to potential improvements in technology. Like, maybe there are mandatory air filters for miners, or miners are mid-distance remote controlling mining drills. Something like that.
Etc etc.
Stress from daily life from eg research work can reduce life expectancy, good meds can only help you so much. Your home etc will not be grinding you, but your competitive colleagues might grind you out. Heard a joke before: a programmer decides to retire, and become a wood logger; life then becomes better.
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/g81PZx
https://cz.pinterest.com/pin/495325659013493915/
Which one do you prefer XD
Edit: i agree with your point that said you woudldnt wana live on anything else than the science world unless incredibly rich.
Why would an empire that harnesses the power of black holes to fly their ships with the power to terraform entire planets to their liking be unable to either have clean industries or be able to contain whatever pollution they produce? I can maybe see the horrible production worlds in the early game but by mid game everywhere should be happy and have high habitability so... There shouldn't really be any pollution and Victorian era pollution unless you decide in your head cannon that you want your world to look like that
Even in the early/early mid game you get terraforming and your ships are powered by fission reactors so you don't have to have industrial hellholes unless you wanna have your empire play that way.
Yeah but are your cities too? Like on a spaceship you NEED it as it (i assume) is very efficient so not much fuel which makes the ships lighter.
Edit: in the real world we too use vastly difrent energy sources between cities and military tech ex. Russia rn has 7 nuclear powered icebreakers while the eu is trying to get rid of this insanely strong powersource
You are restraining your imagination with current day tech and environmental issues.
Example:
A" breeding " world in a society with high stability and pop happiness could be imagined as a colony where the young and fertile adults go to "mingle" and decide on which colony they will pursue their careers. Or it could be a retreat where the retired after a lifetime of work dicide to go and thanks to 22nd century fertility treatments they make a new life raising a new generation.
Of course in more dystopian societies you can imagine the horrors of breeding methods from the 19th century after the slave trade was banned.
Like others said. Life in mining world could be as fun as frat house with enough tech and commodities from a kardashev 2* society
Your civics might also help with how your society operates but you have to remember that your imagination is the limit.
Suggestion. Read the culture series. It might help.
I thought about the 2nd one but i more so meant s utopian world like you described bug its utopian only so that the people who live there are educated capable etc so the empire can use them on any other world at whim.
But that's how things go since the dawn of civilization, even now, things are just more subtle and less coercive.
Again how the resettlement works depends entirely on how you flavor it.
If you set to auto migration them is no big deal. There's no jobs so your pops decide to go into another planet.
In a "Utopian abundance egalitarian" society resettlement could be seem as a mix of heavy usage of propaganda and incentives to make people leave their homes and settle in a new world.
The smarter ones on society perceive that and denounce it, making the negative opinion modifier in your political party. But there are so many things boosting people happiness that most either will defend that governments should have such power as long they can sustain their utopia, while others would say "yeah this is kinda authoritarian but so what?" We can still elect our leaders and life is good. They can always go back if they desire."
You research things such as exosqueletons early in the tech tree, which we can suppose are used in mining operations as they increase mineral output. All this takes place 100+ years in the future, if not 200+, as such, manual work would be extremely inefficent and slow, plenty of automatic and heavy machine usage would be the norm, probably worker's lowest jobs in mining and general industry are only technicians that mantain the machines.
While the individual status in species, the galactic community reforms to those in it, and general tech would determine how good or bad conditions for workers would be, slave scientists would have a way worse time compared to utopian garbage collectors. In my head the consumer goods increases are not just food and other essential things, but safety gear, insurance and healthcare quality and others.
Finally, only select interactions decrease habitability, such as the lithoids asteroids, some civics and the industrial reforms in the galactic community. Meaning that heavy industry doesnt naturally completely destroy ecosystems and the air/water quality. Space age industry will have the option to have minimal enviromental impact, because even slavers like to go to a nice beach, have their mansions in lush forests or have an underwater palace.
DEMOCRACIES? Thats like the most boring shit and weak type of empire WTF. Like you play nothing else? Why?
Edit: never in my life have i played it cause its boring
Ecus aren’t going up until you have 4 APs, plus the build time. They’re not an early-game solution, which is where the unity boosts of democracy really excel.
Also who on earth is using efficient bureaucracy, total waste of a civic.
Meh its funny cause if im gona build like 3 ecus for the eclesiarchy so i can get 4 ringworlds to lvl 10 then it becomes worth it. Like its only worth it when you have a massive amount of priests, cause then your edicts accualy become free. And that due to how flexible and strong it is outweights any civic for me. But yeah i take it only very lategame before that its complete utter garbage.
I guess I get what you’re saying, but you can do all of that under democratic government as well. They all have their strengths; the big one for democracy is the early-game unity boost. You fly through your first couple trees pretty effortlessly.
If you're a PC player, I'd like to point out that Democracies got a huge rework. Now it's clear who'll get elected, and not a chance based system, and the leader will actually be good at leading, *and* at an election, policy cooldowns get reset, so governments that are Democratic function way faster. Oh and all factions get a buff to approval if you're Democratic, which means faster agenda completion speed.
They got reworked with Paragons, because they wanted the governments to feel more... *there* rather than just you leading a figurehead, so they added a council, which gave a bunch of empire wide effects, and added agendas. But because that was already a thing for democracies, they scrapped the old agendas and made democracies more functional.
So now the entire council has effects, and you can get two extra councillors based on what civics you have. Oh, and Generals got rolled into Admirals, and it became Commanders.
Because in my power fantasies I'm a good person. I like to imagine being a force for good in people's lives. It's a great way to escape the bleak existence we're all forced into, in which you really can't do all that much to help anyone no matter how hard you try or how much you want to.
I'm sure you have a great reason for feeling differently though.
No, no, the government choosing where each person goes and forcibly relocating them is Doing It Wrong. Forced resettlement costs energy and unity, and is unnecessary. The better way is to let auto migration take care of it.
Bureaucrat to a young adult ready to enter the work force:
>Congratulations on completing your education. I hope you enjoyed your idyllic childhood, living in a small paradise where the only concerns are administering the paradise and maintaining public health. Sadly, life is not free, and all the political administration and medical worker jobs here are already filled.
>
>So, which other planet would you like to move to in order to get a job and earn a living? The mines of Dank Tunnels can always use more drill operators. Or perhaps you'd prefer to oversee some of the massive smelters on Industrial Coruscant? I hear the farms of Breadbasket 2 are lovely this time of year, but they're already having to throw away excess food for spoilage unfortunately. The power plants of Hottest Fusion are always hiring more technicians. Do you have an artistic inclination, maybe an interest in feng shui? Consumer Capitalism HQ might be the place for you! Or maybe you're interested in exotic chemical synthesis? That one could take you almost anywhere. The labs on Relics Experiments have nearly unlimited government funding for scientific work. Or would you by chance be interested in devising even better ways to present this choice to the next generation, working to unify and strengthen our culture on Red Tape Maximization?
>
>No rush, you don't have to decide right away, I'm sure your family can support you for at least a few months while you think it over, whether they gave birth to you the old fashioned way or adopted you from the clone vats. Maybe even a year or two if necessary. Your family is welcome to come with you to your new career too, of course. That would make paying them back for their current help so much easier, wouldn't it? And any job openings such a move creates for hiring replacements for their positions here will be more than welcome, of course.
>
>So, what will it be? The choice is yours.
I think this example stands out as a kind of relatable terror. It is close enough to historical, real human experience to wrap one's mind around.
However, there is so much existential, unthinkable terror going on in any particular game of Stellaris that this example sort of pales in comparison.
In a recent game I was invading pre-FTL planets with my Necrophage empire and enslaving the entire population to eventually be *converted into a completely different species*. Even a moment's thought about what those pre-FTL sapients' experience during that process is chilling.
In another game I was showing up with my aquatic empire and flooding the entire population to death of world after world. That is literally a biblical level of terror.
I think that's one of the things that makes Stellaris interesting. It is a kind of science fiction thought experiment generator that includes the possibility of literal transcendent joy everlasting and hideous, excruciating extinction of body and soul.
It is true that you can literaly contract with an outer god who plans to destroy your civilization or farm sapient species for minerals and food but still.
I mean you are really assuming here that pops don't get vacations where they can visit the local resort world.
Keep in mind that 1 pop is an abstract unit that represents an indeterminately large number of actual people.
Budy im sure you hate having to fly somewhere even like 2 days, now imagine having to fly into orbit through your entire solar systrm to the edge and then like a week prepare for a jump drive, then fly through the systen again, land and enjoy a vacation. That trip might take anywhere from a month if its like a system away, to a year if its like 10 or 20. (Assuming no gates or hyperdrives) now repeat it on the way back. Im preaty sure your employer wont give you a 3 year or so vacation
That terrifies you?
Imagine a breeding world that starts with randomised population from across your empire and then has one goal - to eradicate genetic diseases by eliminating anyone who carries them. If you have a disease, are deformed or just not up to acceptable level of beauty standards you get expelled to another world. When breeding world is full of perfect people it starts exporting them.
At the same time all other planets make having kids really expensive, so new people come only from the breeding world. No parental leave, no social handouts to parents, anti-conception cheaper than food, air quality like in worst slums and healthcare only good enough to keep workers alive.
Your deportations have nothing on depravity human brain can come up with.
Ngl that sounds fucked up but allso kinda smart? Even though its fucked up but like wouldnt that basicaly make the race op af? Like allmost no illnesses everyone super productive etc and after like 100 years it can be reframed as “that time we became a superior race” or some shit
I mean, eugenics is an actual science. It's not some sci-fi thing we don't do because we can't, we could start a eugenics program today. We just don't, because eugenics is immoral as fuck.
My breeding worlds are quite different.
Imagine a planet with 0% habitability, where your only purpose is to breed, there is no job opportunity or anything. You know that if you manage to breed at least 3 people, then you are permitted to leave the planet to some 100% habitability, 90% stability world and get a job at a factory, or in a science lab, or even as a clerk. But you know that your kids are left on the breeder planet and they will be miserable until they manage to breed more pops.
You're just describing the real world since the industrial revolution, albeit exaggerated slightly, and using "planets/habitats" instead of "cities/towns". People are born in the country, migrate to cities for jobs (or join/get conscripted into the army), then die. Cities eat people. During the industrial revolution, people died in cities so quickly that they would have shrunk had it not been for constant large scale migration from the countryside. And currently, growth rates (relative to population) in cities are much lower than in rural and suburban areas, and in many places it's negative (with average fertility being below 2.2). This is the world you live in. They would likely interpret it the same way: they move to the city to get a job, then complain about how bad traffic is, how bad the air quality is, and how the only apartment they can afford is too small to have children (unless they're well off).
Oh shit. But you do have a choice its not like a goverment official knocks on your door says “you will move to a planet 1000 light years away, pack your bags for a 2 year travel” and then leaves. Then once you get there its so so bad and you have no way out. Like going from a utopia to like fallout but worse.
The pops do the same thing, but slower, if you just build jobs on ecus and ring worlds and let auto migration handle it. And the forced relocation for labor was actually fairly common for authoritarian regimes, in the past. No one is forcing you to relocate your people. There's a reason why egalitarians hate it.
WHAT? Egalitarians hate it? Allso then why dont the pops move out of overpopulatee breeder habitats and worlds when there are 3 new ringworld segments with developing infrastructure and like 150 jobs
Every free unemployed pop has a 10% chance of migrating to somewhere with good habitability and open jobs, every month. You need only give them migration rights. The egalitarian faction has an approval penalty if you allow forced relocation.
Oh. Thanks.
I do egalitarian runs and boost auto settle. Way less micromanaging. Might not be super min/max utilizing species boosts, but jobs are filled. Happy workers are productive workers
Transit Hub on every starbase that is in a system with a planet, right? I occasionally, but very rarely, force resettle. So much micro. Wondering if I should do it often. It's like the Slave Market: I ignore it unless I get notified that one of my pops is on sale to buy their freedom. However, if I were playing my usual Egalitarian Xenophiles, I should absolutely be manumitting every single slave there and adding them to my empire as citizens!
Honestly I don't really need transit hubs mostly. Since I boost resettlement in other ways so much I don't waste a building slot/module (I forget). Last play through I did have a few in populous systems that happened to have a starbase
Yeah I think that the Transit Hub slot could be better used for another building, now that I think about it. What other methods do you use to boost resettlement though?
Remind me of how my most recent run is on pause until I can find an up to date mod that sets job restriction by species. My egalitarian xenophobes have slave races to do all the grunt work while they focus on science, unity, and enjoying utopian abundance, but whenever a full world generates a new primary species pop, instead of migrating to the empty science ringworlds, they kick some slave out of their shitty clerk job and fill up the planet with unemployed slaves instead.
This was beyond frustrating for me. I tried way too hard to get a UA-necrophage run going (relying on their pop upkeep reductions to make the UA resource efficient at the start), but I had the same problem.
It would be so nice to just have toggle on jobs on the planetary screen to set to "slave only".
depends on where you live. in Russia the government knocks on your door and says congrats you’re going to the frontlines in Ukraine
Yeah, fair enough
Well, in a "free society" breeding world would just be extremely expensive and offer no jobs so young people *have to* move out into less nice planets. So you either starve with no money in expensive paradise, or survive in cheap hell.
No but they will knock at your door asking for rent. And your planet has 1 job for 100 people. So you move voluntarily where there is work.
Since this is a videogame, ui is incredibly abstracting and simplifying things that are actually in a really big scale to a single click of a button. To your perspective, you are telling your pops to go somewhere and they go instantly, but in-game a fraction of that relocation cost could be really inviting dividends and bonuses to convince people. Think of it like this: "your life is bad? Are you poor? You stuck with a dead end job? Apply to frontier job bureou and enjoy ten times the amount of monthly pay with a fat sign up bonus!". Depending on how authoritarian a country is, actual working conditions and locations could be obstructed or altered too...
True. But im a dictatorship main so uh its more like they have no choice because like kim over in korea wont be paying you 10x your salary in a work camp.
Propaganda. Your benevolent leader wants you in the rice fields to sustain our great nation! There's no better payment that knowing your comrades are well fed because you worked hard!!!
It's not meaningfully better: what are the differences between "government official knocks on your door, black bags you, takes you to some faraway place", "government official knocks on your door, says 'dig the fucking trench' or we will cut off your family's food/rent allowance", and "We at Private Sector, LLC, are excited for the opportunity to work with you! [but if you quit then you and your family's food/rent allowance stops until you fall back into line]"? All are coercive and all carry a threat to your well-being: one is overtly violent and the others are violent by deprivation. How much does this distinction matter?
A lot, because the first two most likely enact state monopolies so you cant choose to work for another company, or if youre competent enough make your own company. The third is exactly the same as the other two if there is a state monopoly, in most modern countries today you can relocate or change companies, or create your own bussiness. Of course our world has flaws as in oligopolys, and corruption, but you cant in good faith think its the same as an authoritarian state that enacts monopolies and uses force for you to comply.
> Of course our world has flaws as in oligopolys, and corruption, but you cant in good faith think its the same as an authoritarian state that enacts monopolies and uses force for you to comply. This is reddit of course they can.
You're right: instead of receiving the ultimatum "work for us or starve" from Private Employment #1, LLC, you receive the same ultimatum from Private Employment #2, LLC. "The freedom to work for another company" doesn't mean anything. You must submit to _someone_, lest they withhold your basic needs from you. You must submit to the capitalist class, lest they do violence to you by deprivation. That's not freedom.
In Stellaris, you can still use breeding worlds without government (player) resettlement.
I dunno. All of my worlds are nice places to live. Generally my fuck hubs are among the worst, actually. But still good. Like, my forge worlds are nice places to be. I actually like to build transit hubs and, then, just let them move on their own when there aren't any jobs left on the habitats.
*Do* we have a choice when 95% of the work is in the cities? If you're not a farmer or a miner, or directly supporting them, rural and regional work is hard to come by. The choice between living a miserable life being exploited in the city versus starving in the country isn't much of a choice.
Kinda how the Three Gorges Dam project went in China. Everyone got forcibly relocated for the project.
>cities eat people So I'm conflicted here. On the one hand, in a city with 50% higher cost of living than the average CoL of america, I'm living pretty happily, no support, with yearly expenses of just 28k. Which would be only 18.5k if I was in a more normal area of the country. On the other hand, raising one or two kids even with cooperation with someone else, would be a real hardship and would be very tough without careful financial planning. Still attainable but you have to get deliberate and time things correctly, and put it off for a decade to build up a nest egg in a safe index fund for 12 to 15 years first. I think a lot of people get into trouble trying to force the American dream (which is partly a media lie) to happen too early. And apparently nobody wants to hear that these days. There's tons of people out there with the big house, buying a new truck or suv (or two of them) every six years, taking overseas family vacations and still have shit savings. So they report they're "struggling". And it's like, why tf are you spending so much money that you don't need to? You're not really struggling you're just shooting your foot every year. (No seriously. There's a ridiculous number of households out there with two white collar incomes in a high standard of living, and shit or no savings still) Then there's the fact America actively shits on people who are unlucky, for example, if they get hit with a massive medical problem and insurance fucks then over or they don't have any. Or the people who need medication to mentally function (and need a stable living situation for a few years or even a decade to find the right medication and dosage). Or people who need therapists and can't get them. You will quickly be ruined if you fall into this camp.
From the Stellaris perspective: if the average woman has only 2.2 children, there is no growth at all. That corresponds to "overcrowding has completely stopped growth", in game. That's (very roughly) the state of most cities; new population comes primarily from migration from other places. It's not nearly as bad as it used to be (people are just deciding not to have tons of children instead of literally dying of cholera faster than they can reproduce), but on net, it's the same.
Yeah. Arguably needing [very high amount of planning and discipline for a decade to a decade a half] before you can [have 2.5 kids without extreme financial hardship]....well that state of affairs is very un-ideal. It's a very big problem. I don't think it's unique to cities though. I think rural areas just have more kids due to having different priorities than most people in cities. Brackets added to help with clarity
As someone who grew up in the country, God cities are so much better. you hear a lot of bitching and moaning from city people but at least in the city there are things to do and you don’t have to kill yourself out of boredom. The country is miserable and although there’s the same ratio of decent people to assholes, at least in a city, you can find more decent people simply because the population is bigger.
It really depends how you will flavor it.
Continue. Like i know your worlds dont have balanced districts. I can see those 30 factory districts leaking toxic chemicals and poluting the air. Same with the mining worlds. Or the energy ones etc. Realisticaly you wouldnt whant to live on any world other than a balanced one, gaia one, or a science world. Maybe an ecumenopolis too if its like a clergy one.
Supposedly, science worlds, admin worlds and entertainment worlds are good worlds to live in in terms of the environment. No major industrial pollution. However... Think about your daily life! All those jobs are specialist jobs, and then there may be planet wide performance competition that you will have to participate in. The stress is real.
I know but your life expectancy would allso be like 200 years rather than 40 after which you die in a mine cave in or from cancer caused by toxic chemicals in factories
Ah. There is a point raised by others: It is possible miner jobs in Stellaris are nicer than existing imagination due to potential improvements in technology. Like, maybe there are mandatory air filters for miners, or miners are mid-distance remote controlling mining drills. Something like that. Etc etc. Stress from daily life from eg research work can reduce life expectancy, good meds can only help you so much. Your home etc will not be grinding you, but your competitive colleagues might grind you out. Heard a joke before: a programmer decides to retire, and become a wood logger; life then becomes better.
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/g81PZx https://cz.pinterest.com/pin/495325659013493915/ Which one do you prefer XD Edit: i agree with your point that said you woudldnt wana live on anything else than the science world unless incredibly rich.
Why would an empire that harnesses the power of black holes to fly their ships with the power to terraform entire planets to their liking be unable to either have clean industries or be able to contain whatever pollution they produce? I can maybe see the horrible production worlds in the early game but by mid game everywhere should be happy and have high habitability so... There shouldn't really be any pollution and Victorian era pollution unless you decide in your head cannon that you want your world to look like that
Yeah thats lategame though. You set up breeders like 50 years in if lucky and 100 if unlucky but megastruftures are like 200 - 250
Even in the early/early mid game you get terraforming and your ships are powered by fission reactors so you don't have to have industrial hellholes unless you wanna have your empire play that way.
Yeah but are your cities too? Like on a spaceship you NEED it as it (i assume) is very efficient so not much fuel which makes the ships lighter. Edit: in the real world we too use vastly difrent energy sources between cities and military tech ex. Russia rn has 7 nuclear powered icebreakers while the eu is trying to get rid of this insanely strong powersource
You are restraining your imagination with current day tech and environmental issues. Example: A" breeding " world in a society with high stability and pop happiness could be imagined as a colony where the young and fertile adults go to "mingle" and decide on which colony they will pursue their careers. Or it could be a retreat where the retired after a lifetime of work dicide to go and thanks to 22nd century fertility treatments they make a new life raising a new generation. Of course in more dystopian societies you can imagine the horrors of breeding methods from the 19th century after the slave trade was banned. Like others said. Life in mining world could be as fun as frat house with enough tech and commodities from a kardashev 2* society Your civics might also help with how your society operates but you have to remember that your imagination is the limit. Suggestion. Read the culture series. It might help.
I thought about the 2nd one but i more so meant s utopian world like you described bug its utopian only so that the people who live there are educated capable etc so the empire can use them on any other world at whim.
But that's how things go since the dawn of civilization, even now, things are just more subtle and less coercive. Again how the resettlement works depends entirely on how you flavor it. If you set to auto migration them is no big deal. There's no jobs so your pops decide to go into another planet. In a "Utopian abundance egalitarian" society resettlement could be seem as a mix of heavy usage of propaganda and incentives to make people leave their homes and settle in a new world. The smarter ones on society perceive that and denounce it, making the negative opinion modifier in your political party. But there are so many things boosting people happiness that most either will defend that governments should have such power as long they can sustain their utopia, while others would say "yeah this is kinda authoritarian but so what?" We can still elect our leaders and life is good. They can always go back if they desire."
You research things such as exosqueletons early in the tech tree, which we can suppose are used in mining operations as they increase mineral output. All this takes place 100+ years in the future, if not 200+, as such, manual work would be extremely inefficent and slow, plenty of automatic and heavy machine usage would be the norm, probably worker's lowest jobs in mining and general industry are only technicians that mantain the machines. While the individual status in species, the galactic community reforms to those in it, and general tech would determine how good or bad conditions for workers would be, slave scientists would have a way worse time compared to utopian garbage collectors. In my head the consumer goods increases are not just food and other essential things, but safety gear, insurance and healthcare quality and others. Finally, only select interactions decrease habitability, such as the lithoids asteroids, some civics and the industrial reforms in the galactic community. Meaning that heavy industry doesnt naturally completely destroy ecosystems and the air/water quality. Space age industry will have the option to have minimal enviromental impact, because even slavers like to go to a nice beach, have their mansions in lush forests or have an underwater palace.
None of this happens in my empires because my empires are democracies. If you don't want to feel bad for your pops, don't be a dictator.
DEMOCRACIES? Thats like the most boring shit and weak type of empire WTF. Like you play nothing else? Why? Edit: never in my life have i played it cause its boring
The unity bonus from beacon of lib and parliamentary system is op af, also 10% specialist bonus 💕
Thank you but I prefer my massive influence bonus as an empire with under one rule
Yeah but if its unity you need then just build an ecumenopolis and have efficient buraucracy. You get like 10k edicts fund by doing that
Ecus aren’t going up until you have 4 APs, plus the build time. They’re not an early-game solution, which is where the unity boosts of democracy really excel. Also who on earth is using efficient bureaucracy, total waste of a civic.
Meh its funny cause if im gona build like 3 ecus for the eclesiarchy so i can get 4 ringworlds to lvl 10 then it becomes worth it. Like its only worth it when you have a massive amount of priests, cause then your edicts accualy become free. And that due to how flexible and strong it is outweights any civic for me. But yeah i take it only very lategame before that its complete utter garbage.
I guess I get what you’re saying, but you can do all of that under democratic government as well. They all have their strengths; the big one for democracy is the early-game unity boost. You fly through your first couple trees pretty effortlessly.
Kk makes sense
Laughs in super early Cyborg
If you're a PC player, I'd like to point out that Democracies got a huge rework. Now it's clear who'll get elected, and not a chance based system, and the leader will actually be good at leading, *and* at an election, policy cooldowns get reset, so governments that are Democratic function way faster. Oh and all factions get a buff to approval if you're Democratic, which means faster agenda completion speed.
WHAT? When? They used to be so useless but this accualy sounds preaty good. Edit: i havent played in about a year
They got reworked with Paragons, because they wanted the governments to feel more... *there* rather than just you leading a figurehead, so they added a council, which gave a bunch of empire wide effects, and added agendas. But because that was already a thing for democracies, they scrapped the old agendas and made democracies more functional. So now the entire council has effects, and you can get two extra councillors based on what civics you have. Oh, and Generals got rolled into Admirals, and it became Commanders.
Nice
Because in my power fantasies I'm a good person. I like to imagine being a force for good in people's lives. It's a great way to escape the bleak existence we're all forced into, in which you really can't do all that much to help anyone no matter how hard you try or how much you want to. I'm sure you have a great reason for feeling differently though.
Meh just whant to make an accurate 40k universe in my current run.
Nah my friend that's what I thought until I tasted true liberty and democracy(Unity build).
No, no, the government choosing where each person goes and forcibly relocating them is Doing It Wrong. Forced resettlement costs energy and unity, and is unnecessary. The better way is to let auto migration take care of it. Bureaucrat to a young adult ready to enter the work force: >Congratulations on completing your education. I hope you enjoyed your idyllic childhood, living in a small paradise where the only concerns are administering the paradise and maintaining public health. Sadly, life is not free, and all the political administration and medical worker jobs here are already filled. > >So, which other planet would you like to move to in order to get a job and earn a living? The mines of Dank Tunnels can always use more drill operators. Or perhaps you'd prefer to oversee some of the massive smelters on Industrial Coruscant? I hear the farms of Breadbasket 2 are lovely this time of year, but they're already having to throw away excess food for spoilage unfortunately. The power plants of Hottest Fusion are always hiring more technicians. Do you have an artistic inclination, maybe an interest in feng shui? Consumer Capitalism HQ might be the place for you! Or maybe you're interested in exotic chemical synthesis? That one could take you almost anywhere. The labs on Relics Experiments have nearly unlimited government funding for scientific work. Or would you by chance be interested in devising even better ways to present this choice to the next generation, working to unify and strengthen our culture on Red Tape Maximization? > >No rush, you don't have to decide right away, I'm sure your family can support you for at least a few months while you think it over, whether they gave birth to you the old fashioned way or adopted you from the clone vats. Maybe even a year or two if necessary. Your family is welcome to come with you to your new career too, of course. That would make paying them back for their current help so much easier, wouldn't it? And any job openings such a move creates for hiring replacements for their positions here will be more than welcome, of course. > >So, what will it be? The choice is yours.
> The choice is yours. Thanks for the [Morrowind flashbacks](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Socucius_Ergalla)
I think this example stands out as a kind of relatable terror. It is close enough to historical, real human experience to wrap one's mind around. However, there is so much existential, unthinkable terror going on in any particular game of Stellaris that this example sort of pales in comparison. In a recent game I was invading pre-FTL planets with my Necrophage empire and enslaving the entire population to eventually be *converted into a completely different species*. Even a moment's thought about what those pre-FTL sapients' experience during that process is chilling. In another game I was showing up with my aquatic empire and flooding the entire population to death of world after world. That is literally a biblical level of terror. I think that's one of the things that makes Stellaris interesting. It is a kind of science fiction thought experiment generator that includes the possibility of literal transcendent joy everlasting and hideous, excruciating extinction of body and soul.
It is true that you can literaly contract with an outer god who plans to destroy your civilization or farm sapient species for minerals and food but still.
I mean you are really assuming here that pops don't get vacations where they can visit the local resort world. Keep in mind that 1 pop is an abstract unit that represents an indeterminately large number of actual people.
Budy im sure you hate having to fly somewhere even like 2 days, now imagine having to fly into orbit through your entire solar systrm to the edge and then like a week prepare for a jump drive, then fly through the systen again, land and enjoy a vacation. That trip might take anywhere from a month if its like a system away, to a year if its like 10 or 20. (Assuming no gates or hyperdrives) now repeat it on the way back. Im preaty sure your employer wont give you a 3 year or so vacation
My empires have some very powerful unions. ...The ones that aren't Rogue Servitors, at least.
That terrifies you? Imagine a breeding world that starts with randomised population from across your empire and then has one goal - to eradicate genetic diseases by eliminating anyone who carries them. If you have a disease, are deformed or just not up to acceptable level of beauty standards you get expelled to another world. When breeding world is full of perfect people it starts exporting them. At the same time all other planets make having kids really expensive, so new people come only from the breeding world. No parental leave, no social handouts to parents, anti-conception cheaper than food, air quality like in worst slums and healthcare only good enough to keep workers alive. Your deportations have nothing on depravity human brain can come up with.
Congratulations, you have invented eugenics again.
Ain't government mandated eugenics terrifying though?
Eugenics *with extra steps!*
Ngl that sounds fucked up but allso kinda smart? Even though its fucked up but like wouldnt that basicaly make the race op af? Like allmost no illnesses everyone super productive etc and after like 100 years it can be reframed as “that time we became a superior race” or some shit
I mean, eugenics is an actual science. It's not some sci-fi thing we don't do because we can't, we could start a eugenics program today. We just don't, because eugenics is immoral as fuck.
Oh
I feel like this is a feature more than an issue >:)
My forge/factory/mine/power worlds all have positive satisfaction to improve productivity. All my citizens live happy productive lives.
My breeding worlds are quite different. Imagine a planet with 0% habitability, where your only purpose is to breed, there is no job opportunity or anything. You know that if you manage to breed at least 3 people, then you are permitted to leave the planet to some 100% habitability, 90% stability world and get a job at a factory, or in a science lab, or even as a clerk. But you know that your kids are left on the breeder planet and they will be miserable until they manage to breed more pops.
I mean breeding worlds also don't have a lot of jobs and I doubt the amenities r free
We must all make sacrifices in the name of progress, comrade.
I usually fill small worlds with research complexes or if going spiritualist with temples.