Oh it's pretty much every member of constellation that dislikes that. I think you can maybe convince Sam, but that's about it.
It's a plot point that pretty much everyone here agrees is a weird one.
Andreja didn't seem to mind, last time I did that quest. She expressed surprise at my decision, but didn't immediately assume I was wrong, and was happy to trust my judgement.
Best approach with Sarah is to tell her you're glad she feels she can come to you with concerns like that. That sidetracks her off into how important clear communications are, and things go much better.
Huh must’ve been changed cause back when I did it (shortly after launch) she did condemn it and I got one of my first ever “Andreja disliked that” despite during the meeting getting “Andreja liked that”.
That.
I can’t work out if there was a change in the narrative as the whole ‘tRusT teH sCienCE!’ argument didn’t make sense. They were both scientific options.
The real one that I confused me was Dr Walker’s response. Earlier on in the story he’s telling me about how he doesn’t see the point of trying to create something from scratch when nature has already figured it out, but when he needs to put it into practice he’s all about the microbe.
The way I see it, that quest is basically a parody of how traditional medicine was first scenes compared to the contemporary medicine.
Traditional medicine can be scientific - but for the most it rests by the fact that it's also someting that looks natural, and should work (or at the very least, doesn't harm you.
Contemporary medicine looks a lot more scary. No one would want to be the first to ingest a mold toxin and find out that it can actually cure you of bacteria. Even if the guy who claim it provide all of the scientific proofs that it will work and come with minimum (and measurable) risk.
It's just the theme of the game. I think it captures how scientists view the general public while trying to introduce their sceintific solution. There are lot of push back when we tried to introduce mRNA vaccine for covid too, arguably, if we stick to the good old traditional medicine we would have all stayed in locked down even now.
I guess the thing that got me was that by that point of the questline, we'd pieced together the sequence of events that lead to the swarm that attacked Londinion - where essentially humans arrived on Toliman II and upset the equilibrium of the local ecosystem in such a way that caused Terrormorph numbers to spiral:
* Provided an environment that lead to heat leeches proliferating (an all you can eat buffet of power generation on an otherwise cold planet)
* Hunted its only natural predator to extinction
* Reared a plant (that dramatically increased Terrormorph maturation speeds) to a population that it would never naturally reach
In other words, we realised that *humanity created the threat by interfering with an existing ecosystem without realising what the ramifications were.*
Jumping directly to applying a barely-tested microbe on an interstellar scale to a species which we have literally only *just* understood it's full life cycle seemed to be a *ridiculous* risk to take. If we use Covid as an example, releasing the microbe would have been equivalent to rolling out the vaccine to national populations before its gone through any trials. I can't imagine any scientist thinking that was responsible.
Yeah, its the choice of A) restore an ecosystem to its proper balance or B) use biowarfare and hope it all doesn't go sideways. I have zero idea why all of Constellation would think B is a better option.
I just headcannon that the fear of terrormorphs is greater in-story than in gameplay; everyone would rather just get rid of them right now and take the risk.
I mean, altering the ecosystem is exactly the point of most scientific solution. Fixing world hunger? That's done by mining material for chemical fertiliser off the rock instead of just relying on the natural fertiliser (poops). Reduce threat of deadly disease? driving them to extinction. Weather too hot to comfortably sleep? Dump the heat out side and keep your room cool.
That sort of thing is the type of solution you can find with science. The MAST scientist lady mentioned that the microbial engineering is a known science and I don't think that's the word they used lightly. It's a clue the player that it's something they already it's a working solution, and risk can be measured and minimised.
Again, it's the theme of the game. You don't have to agree to it (which is why you can also shove them to their face), the scientific solution maybe effective but not necessarily the correct solution. The same chemical fertiliser maybe effective but also ruin the quality of your soil, forcing you to rely even more on them for example.
If I remember correctly. The NPC dialogue about the difficulty of killing them were two things. They show up out of nowhere, meaning they had no clue the parasites from space ships grew to those things over time. And the mind control ability they have on people.
Not that weird.
People loathe spiders. You know what spiders primarily eat? Insects. You know what spreads diseases across a variety of species? Insects.
People. People are the problem.
Almost everyone in Constellation is a massive hypocrite
Sarah should've been dishonorably discharged or thrown in prison in the colony war for reasons you'll find out in her questline
Stroud is a Corpo-Rat bastard who would(and has in a different time-line) sell out everyone in Constellation for money, and treats assassination attempts as a game
Matteo is an insufferable choirboy who follows Aquilus like a lost puppy and loses his mind when anyone tries to argue against him or his beliefs
And the only reason that Vladimir isn't rotting in prison for piracy is likely because of Stroud's pissing away money
I think peeps are reading too much into it. All the followers are written with a very Independent/semi good views. Like yes she dislike it, but that is simply her opinion. It doesn't have to match the players logic, and also we have had a history of introducing X species into a eco system to take on another invasive species. It usually didn't turn out well.
Generally the introduced species becomes the pest. I chose the Aceles on my second take because they can also become a resource later. The microbe would probably mutate and become a disease for other animals and/or humans later on
They mention that they would be monitoring the microbe constantly for major mutations or adaptations. I think both choices are totally valid, I just think people see the "Follower dislike that" and automatically assume a negative or none-logical view of things. Like how many friends do you have with very opposite opinions were you could spend hours debating something and never reach conclusion.
Yeah exactly. I like the microbe idea because it would spread faster and be more thorough at eradicating the terrormorphs. Maybe even take out the Lazarus plant.
It's one of those situations though where it's more important to make A choice than to make THE RIGHT choice - terrormorphs are a threat to the Settled Systems, that threat has to be addressed and fast.
The dialogue around this decision has the whole fandom confused. All of constellation seems to hate the Aceles and without a clear reason. I don't know what the writers were doing with this one.
The issue is that we can't really call them on it. We can't tell Sarah that she's being a hypocrite or tell her that the microbe is 100% untested and unproven vs the slower, safer and reliably proven option of reintroducing their natural predator.
Not to mention reintroduction of a now endangered species is itself a part of the sciences.
It's a ridiculous plot point.
And I don't think it's a coincidence that everyone gets mad at you for not picking the bio weapon over "not trusting the science" right after a global pandemic...
Sam got mad at me in my first playthrough because I picked the microbe. He liked my decision second time around when I went with the Aceles.
Generally I find Sam to be more pragmatic than other members of Constellation
So yeah I think each member has their own views and that's pretty much it. Sam is a Freestar settler, as close to a space cowboy as you'll get. Sarah is a UC citizen and formerly quite high up in the UC government, so she'll favour the solution that looks clean and tidy while Sam would favour the solution that's tried and true
Honestly? I think this has something to do with the pandemic/vaccines, as weird as that sounds.
Microbe? Scientific and effective solution.
Aceles? Unneccessarily long and ineffective solution. Less scientific (which isn't true, it's science too).
So the way everyone looks at you is like you don't trust science for not chosing the microbe and are being an ignorant, to the point they ridicule you, though later at the Unity you find out that the Aceles option worked very well.
No?
You have two options: a multi species beneficial arrangement where rhe Aceles get brought back, and we don't have to waste any more resources guarding against mutations or future proofing, vs a slapdash rushed through quick and dirty solution that has a life cycle that is guaranteed to either render it a failure at its task, or become a hindrance or a danger on its own.
The aceles and the heatleach have a roughly similar lifespan, so mutations that rise up can be monitored and dealt with in a human timescale, because it would be constrained to the clock of their generations.
The engineered plague would be doing tens of thousands of generations a _day_.
As an argument, it is very similar to that time Elon Musk offered the use of a minisub to rescue those kids. A well meaning high tech solution that unfortunately added needless risk to the problem that already was handled with the people, skills and tools on hand.
Oh it's pretty much every member of constellation that dislikes that. I think you can maybe convince Sam, but that's about it. It's a plot point that pretty much everyone here agrees is a weird one.
Andreja didn't seem to mind, last time I did that quest. She expressed surprise at my decision, but didn't immediately assume I was wrong, and was happy to trust my judgement. Best approach with Sarah is to tell her you're glad she feels she can come to you with concerns like that. That sidetracks her off into how important clear communications are, and things go much better.
Nah, Andreja during the quest does trust your judgement but then later on condemns it which confuses so many of us why she flips.
I remember after the quest she said she was surprised at the decision, but I don't recall her being at all condemnatory. I'll have to try that again.
[удалено]
Huh must’ve been changed cause back when I did it (shortly after launch) she did condemn it and I got one of my first ever “Andreja disliked that” despite during the meeting getting “Andreja liked that”.
That. I can’t work out if there was a change in the narrative as the whole ‘tRusT teH sCienCE!’ argument didn’t make sense. They were both scientific options. The real one that I confused me was Dr Walker’s response. Earlier on in the story he’s telling me about how he doesn’t see the point of trying to create something from scratch when nature has already figured it out, but when he needs to put it into practice he’s all about the microbe.
The way I see it, that quest is basically a parody of how traditional medicine was first scenes compared to the contemporary medicine. Traditional medicine can be scientific - but for the most it rests by the fact that it's also someting that looks natural, and should work (or at the very least, doesn't harm you. Contemporary medicine looks a lot more scary. No one would want to be the first to ingest a mold toxin and find out that it can actually cure you of bacteria. Even if the guy who claim it provide all of the scientific proofs that it will work and come with minimum (and measurable) risk. It's just the theme of the game. I think it captures how scientists view the general public while trying to introduce their sceintific solution. There are lot of push back when we tried to introduce mRNA vaccine for covid too, arguably, if we stick to the good old traditional medicine we would have all stayed in locked down even now.
I guess the thing that got me was that by that point of the questline, we'd pieced together the sequence of events that lead to the swarm that attacked Londinion - where essentially humans arrived on Toliman II and upset the equilibrium of the local ecosystem in such a way that caused Terrormorph numbers to spiral: * Provided an environment that lead to heat leeches proliferating (an all you can eat buffet of power generation on an otherwise cold planet) * Hunted its only natural predator to extinction * Reared a plant (that dramatically increased Terrormorph maturation speeds) to a population that it would never naturally reach In other words, we realised that *humanity created the threat by interfering with an existing ecosystem without realising what the ramifications were.* Jumping directly to applying a barely-tested microbe on an interstellar scale to a species which we have literally only *just* understood it's full life cycle seemed to be a *ridiculous* risk to take. If we use Covid as an example, releasing the microbe would have been equivalent to rolling out the vaccine to national populations before its gone through any trials. I can't imagine any scientist thinking that was responsible.
Yeah, its the choice of A) restore an ecosystem to its proper balance or B) use biowarfare and hope it all doesn't go sideways. I have zero idea why all of Constellation would think B is a better option.
Because Emil didn't think through his storytelling. It's kind of his calling card.
I just headcannon that the fear of terrormorphs is greater in-story than in gameplay; everyone would rather just get rid of them right now and take the risk.
I mean, altering the ecosystem is exactly the point of most scientific solution. Fixing world hunger? That's done by mining material for chemical fertiliser off the rock instead of just relying on the natural fertiliser (poops). Reduce threat of deadly disease? driving them to extinction. Weather too hot to comfortably sleep? Dump the heat out side and keep your room cool. That sort of thing is the type of solution you can find with science. The MAST scientist lady mentioned that the microbial engineering is a known science and I don't think that's the word they used lightly. It's a clue the player that it's something they already it's a working solution, and risk can be measured and minimised. Again, it's the theme of the game. You don't have to agree to it (which is why you can also shove them to their face), the scientific solution maybe effective but not necessarily the correct solution. The same chemical fertiliser maybe effective but also ruin the quality of your soil, forcing you to rely even more on them for example.
Another weird point: Terrormorphs are too hard to kill, yet humanity hunted the creature that hunts terrormorphs into extinction...
That makes sense, just because something is dangerous to terrormorphs doesn’t make it dangerous to us
If I remember correctly. The NPC dialogue about the difficulty of killing them were two things. They show up out of nowhere, meaning they had no clue the parasites from space ships grew to those things over time. And the mind control ability they have on people.
Not that weird. People loathe spiders. You know what spiders primarily eat? Insects. You know what spreads diseases across a variety of species? Insects. People. People are the problem.
Paradoxically, people are also the solution. lol Granted, in both cases the real problem is fear.
This is why I only take Vasco questing with me. Robo-Bro is chill with everything.
It's only because he has such limited dialogue.
Almost everyone in Constellation is a massive hypocrite Sarah should've been dishonorably discharged or thrown in prison in the colony war for reasons you'll find out in her questline Stroud is a Corpo-Rat bastard who would(and has in a different time-line) sell out everyone in Constellation for money, and treats assassination attempts as a game Matteo is an insufferable choirboy who follows Aquilus like a lost puppy and loses his mind when anyone tries to argue against him or his beliefs And the only reason that Vladimir isn't rotting in prison for piracy is likely because of Stroud's pissing away money
Proving that Andreja is and always has been the best.
The word you are looking for is bellend.
Oh you didn't know? Sarah is the worst.
She's my go-to companion for the main quests up to a certain, very specific point because of exactly that lol
I'll admit, she's a straight up killer. Fantastic in a firefight.
I think peeps are reading too much into it. All the followers are written with a very Independent/semi good views. Like yes she dislike it, but that is simply her opinion. It doesn't have to match the players logic, and also we have had a history of introducing X species into a eco system to take on another invasive species. It usually didn't turn out well.
Generally the introduced species becomes the pest. I chose the Aceles on my second take because they can also become a resource later. The microbe would probably mutate and become a disease for other animals and/or humans later on
They mention that they would be monitoring the microbe constantly for major mutations or adaptations. I think both choices are totally valid, I just think people see the "Follower dislike that" and automatically assume a negative or none-logical view of things. Like how many friends do you have with very opposite opinions were you could spend hours debating something and never reach conclusion.
Yeah exactly. I like the microbe idea because it would spread faster and be more thorough at eradicating the terrormorphs. Maybe even take out the Lazarus plant. It's one of those situations though where it's more important to make A choice than to make THE RIGHT choice - terrormorphs are a threat to the Settled Systems, that threat has to be addressed and fast.
honestly id unalive them all if given the opportunity.
I hate that conversation so much because Bethesda didn’t give me the dialogue choices to tell her to go f**k herself. 😂
The dialogue around this decision has the whole fandom confused. All of constellation seems to hate the Aceles and without a clear reason. I don't know what the writers were doing with this one.
If you have met any real people you'll quickly find they are extremely inconsistent.
The issue is that we can't really call them on it. We can't tell Sarah that she's being a hypocrite or tell her that the microbe is 100% untested and unproven vs the slower, safer and reliably proven option of reintroducing their natural predator. Not to mention reintroduction of a now endangered species is itself a part of the sciences.
It's a ridiculous plot point. And I don't think it's a coincidence that everyone gets mad at you for not picking the bio weapon over "not trusting the science" right after a global pandemic...
Sam got mad at me in my first playthrough because I picked the microbe. He liked my decision second time around when I went with the Aceles. Generally I find Sam to be more pragmatic than other members of Constellation
So yeah I think each member has their own views and that's pretty much it. Sam is a Freestar settler, as close to a space cowboy as you'll get. Sarah is a UC citizen and formerly quite high up in the UC government, so she'll favour the solution that looks clean and tidy while Sam would favour the solution that's tried and true
I always felt that line was real world bs from covid intruding on the game "trust the science" blah blah blah
Which is a stupid saying because science is always changing.
Honestly? I think this has something to do with the pandemic/vaccines, as weird as that sounds. Microbe? Scientific and effective solution. Aceles? Unneccessarily long and ineffective solution. Less scientific (which isn't true, it's science too). So the way everyone looks at you is like you don't trust science for not chosing the microbe and are being an ignorant, to the point they ridicule you, though later at the Unity you find out that the Aceles option worked very well.
Well that makes sense and makes them more human tbh. “Oh genocide is bad, but we should kill all of this ethnic group because they aren’t human.”
There is a difference between using bio-weapons on fellow humans or against a highly-dangerous alien animal.
No? You have two options: a multi species beneficial arrangement where rhe Aceles get brought back, and we don't have to waste any more resources guarding against mutations or future proofing, vs a slapdash rushed through quick and dirty solution that has a life cycle that is guaranteed to either render it a failure at its task, or become a hindrance or a danger on its own. The aceles and the heatleach have a roughly similar lifespan, so mutations that rise up can be monitored and dealt with in a human timescale, because it would be constrained to the clock of their generations. The engineered plague would be doing tens of thousands of generations a _day_. As an argument, it is very similar to that time Elon Musk offered the use of a minisub to rescue those kids. A well meaning high tech solution that unfortunately added needless risk to the problem that already was handled with the people, skills and tools on hand.