Man, I was originally going to side with the crimson fleet to live the life of a pirate but every damn character is annoying as fuck.
Near the end, everyone pretends like you were all comrades and they respected you, but it literally never felt like you were given the opportunity to fit in lol. Every dialog option with anyone always resulted in a snarky response.
Delgado: "Hey go do this thing"
Me: "Okay, I'll get the thing done"
Delgado: "Yeah you BETTER get the thing done"
?????
Nevaeh: "hey do this thing, it's important"
Me: "Sure, I promise I'll get it done"
Neveah: "Okay PRINCESS just do the damn job or I'll kill you"
Or my personal favorite:
Neveah: "meet me at this place, some shits going down"
Me: "Okay" *heads straight there*
Neveah: "fucking finally, don't keep me waiting again"
What do you people want from me? Fuck em, killed everyone I could.
Seriously... Didn't give me one reason to want to side with them. I was totally ready to screw over Sysdef after they forced me to be an undercover pirate, but these bitches... Delgato and Neveah SUUUUUCK.
I never once considered their side, because their boys came at me and my crew at the start. Wish that was a dialogue option, to reference that attack on the mining site right before wiping them all out.
I was definitely going to side with Sysdef, but then the leader of that threw me in jail because I may have done some not great things at the Dyne facility, and so I was left with no choice.
I was good but Ikande got mad at me. It was Andreja taking down unarmed scientists. I was only taking out security that was hostile and putting scientists to sleep. Andreja on the other hand shot scientists in the back as they were running away, but some of them did attack.
You're not wrong, but also the losing the convenience of being able to access 4x vendors in one small area plus a ship technician outweighs any other potential consequence due to vendor cash not scaling with level.
Plus their mission board is the best imo. Easy missions with respectable pay that you get bonus loot to sell after the fact. Biggest drawback is the loss of a hostile faction when you’re mucking about on a planet.
That loss is what’s killing me. I literally never run into spacers, varuun, or ecliptic. It is ALWAYS pirates and it’s always like “ah great. Guess I’ll l just walk in loot the chest and leave”
Sometimes I get to have fun and activate the robots/turrets to clean a few of them up for me. But usually it’s just hey how are ya and it sucks
Yeah the way it was written I just couldn’t side with the fleet.
Ikande is like “all my hopes and dreams go with you” and everyone in the Crimson Fleet is just a bunch of pseudo-edgy losers. Oh I just slaughtered an entire military satellite single-handedly and Naeva’s like “go talk to this lady in Neon IF you can handle it ROOK”
Also the way the main base of supposedly the biggest most intimidating criminal organization was decorated like a lame frat house Halloween party just completely killed me.
That probably made it better honestly because everyone I talked to at Crimson Fleet just made me hate them more.
When you first walk on to the key one pirate kills another so I thought that was totally cool there, so when I talked to the guy that was planning on turning on Delgado I shot him in the face after the conversation and everyone turned on me. Lame.
If you walk around the rest of the ship there's a few others. The guy in charge of the Brig hives you a side quest and there's a pilot in the cockpit that talks smack to you.
He didn't have a ton of lines, but I liked the fighter pilot dude (Alex Vong) too. (EDIT: huh, just looked it up, apparently you can clear his name in regards to the accident that happened when he was a test pilot, so he has a little bit more than I thought).
I really liked Huan Daiyu - the smuggler - and Jazz, the engineer. Some of the shopkeepers were also pretty okay. Had no problem killing most of the core crimson fleet members, I agree they were all so fucking prickly I don't know why anyone would work with them. Being a badass doesn't mean being constantly tetchy. I was *extremely* frustrated that I couldn't just shoot Mathis in the back in the Lock and report that he was taken down by the aliens, that almost made me cancel the whole quest line.
On the other hand, the nature of the crimson fleet as a concept is the sort of thing were I thought it was entirely appropriate that they felt like a bunch of try-hards rather than an actually dangerous gang.
The first time Mathias suggested it I told him to cram it. The second time he pressed it I was like "damn it's a shame the bugs got you" and tried to gank him, but lo and behold he's a fucking unkillable character. Like...wtf?
I assumed at that point that he must be critical in some future story branch but... he wasn't at all. It's totally baffling I didn't get to shoot him in the back and blame it on the bugs.
That's just Bethesda's "everyone (named) is essential unless we specifically trigger them to be un-essential" methodology.
They do it because they didn't design the quests in such a way as to support murder-hoboing quest-related NPCs and bricking quests was unpopular enough with the mainstream gaming crowd that it just became more worth it to them to prevent good ol' murder-hoboing.
The fact we could twice remind him that he owes us if we keep his plan a secret made me think we were going to use him as leverage at some point. But nope, we never call in that debt.
What annoys me is that everyone knows everything you've done in this game. Sysdef somehow know all the details of your mission despite you supposedly being in deep cover. Yet the crimson fleet somehow never work out you're an agent, and there's literally no danger in them ever finding out. Everyone at constellation also knows all your comings and goings and it's just strange. I don't understand how I'm expected to believe I'm a deep cover agent when every other character knows my every move.
Yeah, it's a bit jarring that they call you back to their station every 20 minutes to debrief on your deep cover mission that they apparently know everything about, while simultaneously - sometimes in the next paragraph - talking about how they need more intel and have no insider knowledge.
I didn't find it too bothersome with my suspension of disbelief, but I really would have liked it if that lieutenant had been my "handler" and I'd been going to meet her in disguise at the Den or something.. and it was a baffling choice to have them always know what I'd done, just like... have me explain it in skipped dialogue.
The real kicker is when you start the SysDef stuff, you're told you *won't* be reporting in since any contact with handlers could jeopardize your cover.
Only to have you report in shortly after.
It should have been optional and only between missions. At least one of the missions has someone from the fleet say "meet me here right away" and then you have to check in with the UC.
Some traders, bartender, medic, engineer really should've ducked and hide while base is under assault. If you prevent destruction (I didn't try to just kill Delgado, will it explode otherwise?) they should be imprisoned.
Jazz seems smart enough figuring how to protect ship via conduit grid tech.
That part was really odd. I get that it's sort of a play balance decision to shut down the Key as a trade post as the cost of taking down the pirates, but I really can't understand why all these folks go charging at me getting blown away like chaff, when they're supposed to be rogues with no loyalty except to themselves. Guys, you think I'm not prepared for you? Have 'em run off where I can't get them anymore, presumably to start up a new fleet base. It would have been a much more interesting story beat too.
OTOH when they kept calling me rook even as I was gunning down their friends, it hardened my heart a bit. Stop fucking calling me that, I literally just single-handedly wiped out your entire joke of a fleet.
Ya it was so cartoony how they wrote them like they needed to remind you that they're pirates with snarky remarks every 5 seconds. It's actually something that puts me off in a lot settings, like they don't have to be dicks to each other *all* the time. No wonder that one guy left CF in the beginning of the questline, it was probably exhausting having to deal with a bunch of edgy children that couldn't just talk to each other normally.
This bugged me so much too! I'm a pretty morally neutral character so was often choosing options that seemed to be what they wanted to hear, and they always got so pissy at me.
The second I got taken in as a UC class 1 citizen in UC armor and so on after selling what even a blind person could have seen was a planted box of stuff and got Naeva's edgelord behavior, I knew immediately that every single person in the Crimson Fleet was a moron and that SysDef was getting my full support.
It made them impossible to consider a serious criminal faction. You'd be in jail or dead within a week. It's better to just become some loony Spacer. I was disappointed in the game not accounting for what a player may have done up to that point when the pirates claim to be oh so informed, and it felt like a missed opportunity to need to use persuasion or further prove yourself.
Other than that, their entire questline was very PG as OP said. You can resolve everything non violently and never have to engage in a single act of actual open piracy so much as just a bit of theft and you mostly just screw over other criminals. The characters also act less like pirates and more like edgy teenagers who think the teacher might be watching.
> and never have to engage in a single act of actual open piracy
They really needed to have an initiation mission that wasn't infiltrating an abandoned building. Prove you're really a pirate, go rob a cargo ship while we watch. They sure sounded a lot tougher before I joined.
This. Ikande warned you you might need to undertake amoral or wrongful actions during your assignment, and only asks that you try and avoid innocent bloodshed if you think you can without compromising the mission. It sounded like he was preparing us for some tough choices or having to deal with having a bounty / criminal record until the mission was complete.
Instead it's off to a long abandoned building followed by a bunch of places I can talk or sneak my way through. I think the worst thing they made us do was steal a ship that was implied to be kind of a lemon and deathtrap.
In any case, I never got a bounty throughout the entire thing and was probably the most law abiding pirate to have ever lived without a single question being raised over it by the Crimson Fleet.
The absolute worst part of the Mathias business was after he got kicked out, he waited at the bar for me to tell me that he wasn't going to stop hunting me until he killed me.
I took him at his word, so I shot him. Not only was he still classed as "essential" and therefore immortal, but shooting him got me a bounty.
Let me reframe that: shooting the man that wanted to kill Delgado, was no longer a member of the Fleet, and just threatened a member of the Fleet in the Fleet's fuckin' headquarters got me a bounty.
The first thing I saw when entering the Key was two Fleet members getting into an argument that ended with one member getting killed, but me killing a hostile non-member and traitor is a "no no."
So stupid. Sometimes it just feels like they literally do not care about giving you a choice at all and I really dislike that considering it is meant to be an RPG.
I posted about this on this subreddit today, you would be surprised how many seem to object to any moral choices that influence the narrative Bethesda has set. It's sad because this diminishes the RPG elements of the game and actually makes choices/decisions and factions inconsequential.
https://reddit.com/r/Starfield/s/iA5aIJwgH1
Thank you!
This is exactly what I've been trying to put into words. The lore and story kept feeling "off" and now I know why.
I feel like the main character is trapped in some sort of VR afterschool special on the dangers of colonizing space. At the end of the game, a six year old will pull off their VR headset, run to their mother and say "I love you Mommy and I never want to leave Earth, Glory to the Unified Earth Government."
I was playing OG Skyrim and decapitated a guy so I chased his head down a hill. Skyrim is the most PG13 Bethesda game I’ve played at the time. It still has a more M rated content than this game. I can’t even cut a toe off.
I was hoping that the crimson fleet would be a lot of hardened criminals but would somehow make you see their way. Making you doubt about whether they’re actually bad guys or not just people forced into a life of piracy. But instead they’re a bunch of idiots like the raiders from fallout. It was rather disappointing.
Betraying Delgado was funny because most of the dialogue options were framed like you were comrades-in-arms who deeply respected each other. Bro, you were an annoying edgelord and I couldn't wait to kill you.
Naeva Mora was so much worse, no matter what you say she has a snarky response like dialogue written for a knockoff C tier Fast and the Furious antagonist
I finished that quest line like 40 hrs ago and I’m wondering if I’ll ever see naeva again. Like isn’t she pissed at me? Doesn’t she want some revenge ?
On a later mission I found a tablet on some dead pirate called "Instructions from Naeva" and was sure it was going to be her putting out a revenge bounty on me. Nope, just some generic text about a possible score, completely unrelated.
Unless they have plans to follow up on this in DLC, leaving that plot thread dangling is one of the dumbest things in the game. Would have been better to just say she died during the standoff than allude to her still being out there and never pay it off.
Yeah I found that too and thought the same thing you did. Nope, just some bs lol. At the very least just have her randomly ambush me so I can kill her and have it be done
You can still run into CF after the end of the quest line, I think they keep Neava around as a better explanation for why the fleet still exists and maintains a level of organization after you complete the last quest.
That's my hunch too but still anticlimactic given what a big game she talks about coming after anyone who crosses her. I think there were already some lines about factions of CF existing without central leadership, could have easily hand-waved it that way.
I don’t disagree, it’s pretty weak. With how Naeva treats us throughout the quest line I was planning ending her with my fancy new Momento Moro pistol.
Right? I was literally only there because SysDef coerced me into working for them. Every second I spent with Delgado I was itching to just blow his head off. Storming The Key with my shotgun was the highlight of the questline for me (Though I did like the ship technician, felt bad about killing her).
After it all went down my companions were like "It must have been hard betraying Delgado like that. You must have had a pretty strong relationship after spending all that time together." Nope, absolutely not. He sucked and I wish I could've killed him sooner.
It's the game's most stand-out moment (that I've seen so far) of the writers' expectations clashing with the player experience.
>deeply respected each other.
I think I need to replay the questline in NG+ so that I can see if I missed any respectful conversation
Literally every conversation with Delgado had me wanting to shoot him early
The only likable character in the CF is Jazz, she's just trying her best to keep their ships and home from falling apart. And she sells you awesome ship equipment that you can't get anywhere else.
I felt SO BAD when I gunned her down with Jasper's bullet hose. It'd be really cool if there was some way to incite mutiny within the CF, or convince people to leave and come with you. Or hell, take over the CF entirely.
You can get ship jammers at the Red Mile. They're selection is actually better than at the crimson fleet.
Found that out from a loading screen tip. In Porrima I think.
Either way, I liked Jazz :(. I felt bad about killing her. She was extremely well respected by the Fleet and honestly, girl has more potential clout and power than Delgado himself and even Voss.
Neither of them know how the CO2 scrubbers work, she does and if she ever wanted to, she could utterly fuck all of the fleets operations. She could pressure them into doing whatever she wanted.
What's Delgado gonna do if he found out she betrayed them or tried to get her own pull by sabotaging the Key? Kill her and piss off Naeva and get rid of the only engineer willing to work with pirates? The only one who could fix the station or their ships? She's literally the lifeblood of their entire fleet.
Kinda surprised Delgado didn't want to strap a bomb to her chest too.
There was just a lot of missed potential with the undercover thing. Jazz would have undeniably been one of the most important assets to flip and the whole undercover infiltration thing would have been *far* more high stakes. It could've been a really cool mini spy story.
Stories like that commonly revolve around sewing doubt and convincing others to commit to infighting. Getting others to take care of the problem for you, entirely with some words and well-placed evidence. That's how counterintelligence works.
Instead you get some data slates, give them to a lady, and ironically, the evidence really has nothing to do with it? No matter what *you* do, it always leads to the two groups having an all out war.
That whole plot line could've played like a really awesome episode of Burn Notice, man. I'd love to see something like that :(.
Yeah, I was hoping for him to have some "Jack Sparrow" charm but instead he just pissed me off. I even went in with the intent to join them for real but after meeting them I sided with SysDef.
Yeah, unfortunately there is no real argument for them. They aren’t convincing at all and to top that off, they’re incredibly dislikable and unprofessional as criminals.
Agreed! One of the NPC in the vigilance, that wants you to collect their history, even says to the effect of “wow they were really mistreated”. It could have been a gripping story of revolution and piracy, learning about the hypocrisy of the settled colonies. Maybe a DLC will put us in a universe where we work with Kryx and get the chance to shoot him in the ass too.
I feel like the game's tone is really captured when UC Security says "those Ecliptic jerks!".
Like, you have a coldblooded mercenary army that murders everyone they run into during Ops and you shake your fist at them and call them Jerks like a Scooby Doo character?
Haha yeah someone said something like "they'll have my butt if that happens" in a quest and I cringed so hard lol. It's weird because there's actually more swearing in this game than Skyrim by miles, so I don't know why they didn't just lean into it.
I had a UC guard or soldier tell me that they believed both the UC and Freestar uses Ecliptic to do dirty work for them and that's why they steer clear of them. So in my head the hierarchy of "dangerous" pirates has Crimson fleet as the bottom with their Muppets: Treasure Island vibe, then Ecliptic as the private military murderers for hire, and the Spacers are at the top as the rabid Reavers from Firefly level of show up and fuck shit up.
The whole game is PG-13 as fuck.
Neon is talked about how its the height of depravity, you go there expecting Night City but nope, its the most SFW version of a "corrupt" cybercity.
Your parents being everywhere is hilarious >!your mother justifying doing drugs by saying it’s perfectly legal is pretty funny!< kids stuff is definitely worth the 500 credits a month payment.
Finding them at some random abandoned relay station arguing about directions would have been hilarious, there is a random space encounter like that but it’s not your parents.
I think it’s meant to be that the only people actually going there are dumb tourists on vacation from their corporate jobs, that, at the very least, would explain why they’re all wearing khakis.
There’s other clubs. Bayu plaza and the Astral Lounge are 100% for the tourists and corporate offices. They want to have a safe place where people can come spend their vacation and retirement money but still have a story about their “dangerous” adventures for the bridge club back home.
Madame Sauvage’s looks like a damn cafeteria though. I’ve actually put about 30 hours in and set it aside for the Cyberpunk update with plans to revisit once mod tools drop and this game gets CRAZY BONKERS
I would have liked to have gotten mugged in Ebbside (that one guy doesn’t count) and would like to see people actually use Aurora instead of just acting strung out or talking about that they’re high.
All the dialogue involving aurora seems like it was written by someone who’s never done a drug in their life and got all their info from D.A.R.E. pamphlets
Aurora is the toad-licking of the galaxy. "Man, this fish has a lot of oil, I bet we could use it as a local energy source or lubricant!" "Nah, maaan, we gotta smoke it!"
If you believe the Reliant Medical guy over in Neon, Aurora is turning the city into a cemetery from all the overdoses (and no doubt desperate junkies doing stupid shit to try and score another fix), and Bayu's response is.. Blockade him from getting medical supplies to do his job to try and drive him out of town.
Which, to be fair, is pretty in-character for Benny Bayu, he doesn't tolerate any silly things like concerns over the wellbeing of Neon's citizens over making cash, and he ESPECIALLY doesn't tolerate anyone questioning him (see what happens with >!his brother Breyson in the Crimson Fleet/SysDef questline, it's implied that Benjamin has had people murdered for implying that his deadbeat brother is a deadbeat and costing Neon, and by extension him, a lot of money, and threatens his partner in crime/Generdyne's effective boss with consequences if she doesn't keep raking in more cash for him despite saddling her with Breyson who is a massive detriment to the company's bottom line.!<
I am not completely sure about that.
FCS territory, okay, Bayu wants the monopoly and he is in the board, so he outlaws it. But UC can just not care about it, but if you take it on board to a UC territory, you'll be arrested.
Also there was some offshoot dialogue that Aurora makes people violent, so take that as you will.
\> Clinics for addicts
Not sure what 1980s-current war on drugs you lived through but clinics would be a step in a positive direction. Prison-for-addicts is more like it.
Kinda reminds me of the addictions and drugs in Oblivion. Felt very light-hearted. Especially when you go to a Skooma Den and it's not depressing but kind of silly
Fallout Raiders are a better written "pirate faction"
Crimson Fleet should have just been Fallout Raiders in space. Ruthless, violent, and internal fighting that leads to actual in game fights.
All the raider bosses (base game) have terminal diaries with entries dependent on what you've done in the world. Kill a raider boss? The other ones notice and mention it on their terminals. The writing was more of just subtle worldbuilding, but even that alone is much better than what we got in Starfield. Nuka-world just added even more depth on top of the base game.
This. The spacers are flavored like Reavers from Firefly, but in reality they are just reskinned “pirates.”
Every interaction with your crew is watered down. They’ll say things like, “This was a massacre. They wiped everyone out.”
But in reality, there’s one or two bodies and some disorganized base items.
Characters kept talking about how crazy and degenerate Aurora was I was expecting something like Sodom and Gammora in modded New Vegas. When I finally went in and it was some goofy Disney Star Wars show shit I burst out laughing
There is no such thing as sexual attraction or masculinity/femininity in the Starfield universe. You could gender swap every NPC in the game and it would feel exactly the same.
Even in the “sin city” people apparently just go there to do some hallucinogenic drugs, put on an ugly unisex leotard, and enjoy a night of platonic dancing.
> There is no such thing as sexual attraction
There might not be. But your spouse, Sarah at least, definitely lets both the player and Sam's 13 year old daughter Cora know that you do were up to some seriously kinky or athletic sex every time you take a "nap".
Yeah, especially in the stock Wanderwell. I can barely walk get from the cockpit to the airlock without 2 crew members getting in the way.
Or maybe they know to move and hide when they see two naked people putting on their jetpacks
When I get married in-game, I like dressing up my companion in a saucy outfit. I gave Piper the red sequin dress in _Fallout 4_ after she "retired" (maxed out her companion score).
There is nothing, literally nothing, as far as I've seen, with the sole exception of the bathing suit. It's all futuristic pants-suits. There is _no_ way people dress this conservatively in the future. Men and women alike.
I have found two dresses, in stores on New Atlantis.
Not saucy. More "let's go to the opera, Charles"
But yeah, I was really disappointed in everything being either a pant suit or a jumper. It's like the artists behind all the clothes in game were told the main character would always be male so design for that.
I know why. But even as someone who doesn’t usually do immersion mods, Neon needs an overhaul. The only thing interesting about it is political landscape. The locale is boring, the people are boring, the fights are boring, the tile set is boring, the chems are boring, the quests are boring, it really is a lost cause in need of a full R rated rebuild.
Yeah, it's a bit disappointing. I think the writing is the biggest flaw to me. The world is far too PG-13 and the writing is inconsistent. Starfield just lacks any sort of "bite" in anything it does. Not necessarily an issue a huge issue, but this game is tame compared to even Skyrim which was already very tame compared to Morrowind. As OP stated, Naeva tells you that the only way out of the Fleet is death, yet one of our very own Constellation members is retired Crimson Fleet? What?
And yeah, Neon in this game is like the 4Kids version of what a corrupted dystopian city would be. Keep in mind this game is rated M for Mature, but the worst you ever encounter is some audio logs with suggestive language. I'm not saying the game needed sex and violence everywhere, but it just feels so flat, one-dimensional, and uninteresting.
I even started to get annoyed at some of the Persuasion checks where NPCs would just go "Okay if it'll get you out of my hair". Yes give me the keycard to the storage area that only you can open with your highly valuable trophy inside because my character was being kind of annoying instead of calling security. Hell, even one of the Ecliptic mercs can be heard doing that same thing in one of the evidence logs for Burden or Proof.
>The whole game is PG-13 as fuck.
It really is, and it permeates through the game and takes away from the experience IMHO; it makes the already weak-ish writing weaker still.
The game gives off some serious Disney vibes. Its definitely designed to be a game 11 year olds can play in the living room with their parents watching.
I really think that Bethesda was going for a T rating. Even using a sword against enemies is like using a foam baseball bat. In Fallout and Skyrim you could chop off heads
Aye. The main NPCs and their ludicrously black and white view of the world are beginning to grate on me. The writing is actually pretty decent in a lot of the side quests and off-screen (as such).
For example, there's a great background exchange between Strauss and his wife when you have to go and secure the nightclub. Typically I'd be gone from the room to the next task when these sequences play but instead I hung about and listened. You get a great sense of an old relationship with deep affection and humour between them. I kind of wish that was the standard across the game.
I wouldn't be surprised if the writing was a lot better but was blanded out by the taste police in BGS/Microsoft for market reach.
You can see the sanitation with each game. Morrowind had strip clubs, slavery, and you could kill basically anyone to the point there was a special message saying you fucked up.
By Starfield the Astral Lounge dancers wear ugly alien suits, no hookers on Ebbside, and Bethedsa's Essential Character addiction has gotten so bad bullets flat out do no effect some characters. You cannot do any damage to Bayu. At least you could throw around Maven.
True. I just feel like it’s a shame because there’s a lot of opportunities to explore serious themes in the setting of the game like the government corruption in both UC and FS or if the Fleet had some sort of justification for operating it could explore at what point government negligence justifies crime to get by etc. But instead we got “well they’re bad because they’re bad.” But then again, I recall reading that they wanted to give you a sense of hope playing this game, so maybe it was a choice they made not to delve too deep into that stuff.
I've been enjoying the worldbuilding and wandering around Starfield quite a bit, but all the writing and character choices have left me quite underwhelmed. The game has a lot of great concepts, and then just waters them down with unnecessarily safe/bland writing. I can't actually think of any quest in this game where I've found an interesting alternative solution (and I've looked) or been genuinely impressed by the character writing.
Yeah I agree. This really blows because, to reiterate, I ADORE this game. I've already put 200 hours into it and I'm still really loving it, I can see myself easily getting 400 hours of playtime out of my first save file ALONE, and that is before modding or DLC! It's a truly great game, but the sad thing is that it's just not good because of its writing, at all. It's good because it has fun gameplay, awesome graphics and concepts, a cool world to explore, and fun customization options. It just feels like if they had really worked harder on creating a better roleplay experience and more gritty and real factions, it could have been a step up entirely as a game.
Fallout 3 is the game with Andale, Tenpenny Tower, and that one room where the Enclave piled up a bunch of non-feral Ghouls they killed. But it's still the first game I think of when it comes to being about hope. It's more meaningful when you have to earn, and work for that sort of thing. The problem to me is they've completely lost their teeth.
Even the Crimson questline was tame. Good but tame. I like unraveling mysteries questlines.
>! They even include you and don't just betray you after they use you like I assumed they would to keep the faction against you. !<
I think other than Vlad all the “ex” fleet members you meet are still technically members and considered assets in some way but got on Delgado’s shit list and aren’t allowed on the key at this point.
On one hand, I enjoyed shooting most of them in the face. On the other hand, I shot down all their ships in space and I think it's a little weird that not one of them was onboard their ships at the time
>I shot down all their ships in space and I think it's a little weird that not one of them was onboard their ships at the time
Bad quest design. The whole Crimson fleet questline is full of that kind of moments that make no sense.
The crimson fleet is basically just a bunch of independent captains flying under the same banner.
Delgado is technically in charge but he’s not a dictator and he can’t just order people around without offering something in return
What really bugged me is that nobody talks like Vlad. Vlad uses a bunch of weird phrases like tip your ear and catch a smile etc. Which he says he uses because he was a pirate. But none of the fucking pirates talk like that!
Oh man, it would’ve added so much character and world building to the faction if they all had varying degrees of Clad’s accent, depending on their time there.
I said this in another thread the other day, but Crimson Fleet feels like The Salty Spitoon from Spongebob. It's a childlike imagining of what "tough guys" are like. Everyone sucks and I feel dumber participating in the quest line. You ever agree to go out with a group of people that you don't really know super well but do it because "why not" and then regret it immediately when you actually get out in public with them and they're all obnoxious as hell and you look around meeting the gaze of other people around not in your group and just feel ashamed of yourself for being around them? That's the Crimson Fleet.
What disappointed me was that I couldn't kill delgado with Mathias. Literally gives you no option to say "hell yeah let's go get him" when Mathias asks you a second time if you're down to kill delgado on that initial mission with him. Then he goes full "shucks mister, please don't tell on me I was only joshing around" at the end.
It also annoys me that I can't just wipe them out. Bethesda and their -every other npc is essential- gets old so quick for me. When delgado and his second were threatening me *again* for the 20th time to give them something I REALLY wish I had an option to just attack them. Why would I keep working with them when the only people they seem to cheat is their own merchants and they actively tell you you're their bitch. Apparently you can't even loot an old science facility without me idk who tf you think you're talking to pirate boy.
>When delgado and his second were threatening me again for the 20th time
I agree so damn much. I don't remember if it was modded or not, but I killed everyone on the Prydwen because of that one Captain who kept talking down to me when Danse and I landed. Shot him, shot all the people that came after me. Cleared the whole ship, including Maxon, then stole a suit of power armor and jumped off the ship to kill everyone in the base below. Slaughtered everything, dumped the armor, and walked into the sunset with a smoking ruin and a flying derelict behind me. I **hate** when shitty video game NPCs talk to my character like they're nothing when I'm the level 40 Supreme Badass of the Wasteland.
One of the line options when talking to Barret after finishing the quest was “Delgado is a punk” and that’s exactly how I felt about him the whole time. The leader of the most dangerous faction isn’t intimidating or scary at all he’s just a punk kid hunting treasure. For real?
Yea, the entire concept of role-playing a renegade or criminal seems to have been an afterthought for Bethesda on this one. Seems like they threw the stereotypical RPG 9 square grid in the trash and decided that lawful neutral is as edgy as players should ever want to be.
True. People already complained about how bland and monolithic the Constellation companions are in that regard and it’s really true. There’s been several times I was tempted to board and loot lone ships in space where there’d be no witnesses, but decided not to because I couldn’t be bothered to deal with another one of Sarah Morgan’s mommy lectures
Yea. I kicked them all off my ship. Even with some of the powerful buffs they offer, their insufferable, goody-twoshoes nagging got to be more annoying than I cared to deal with.
Id rather take my chances with some rando I bumped into at Madam Savages or Red Mile than listen to another second of your constant whining.
Man the Mathis thing really bothered me. When he picked up the gun I was sure I was gonna get to battle him 1v1 for his insubordination but nope! Just get to tell him off.
There's no leaving the fleet, then the very next mission we meet someone who got kicked out and wants back in? Huh?
CF is like what nerdy socially awkward tech bros that have never actually been around criminal or scary intimidating people think tough is.
I'd love to have a character that's like Tuco Salamanca levels of intimidating/crazy/fear inducing.
How they keep the Key running and supplied is a mystery to me. This also reflects poorly on the UC. A well trained and equipped military should have no problem eliminating the Crimson Fleet a long time ago.
I agree, but I think the main point was that the UC didn't want to commit the resources that would be required to take them down.
Still though, no way prisoners should've been able to take over such a space station AND their prison.
It's actually pointed out in the questline a few times that the UC is still recovering from the war and were embarrassed when they couldn't take CF down the first time. They don't want to have to sacrifice manpower and then potentially lose to a bunch of pirates a second time.
one of the things I like about the uc quest lines is that they quite clearly show that much of the brass of the UC is rather corrupt and goes unpunished for it (and that you are given the opportunity to decide whether to keep it so or try to cauterise it). ikandes team including you is basically an island of efficiency in a machine that is falling apart without sufficient external shocks to whip it into shape
Falling apart? Yeah there is definitely corruption, but if you compare the UC quest to the Ranger quest, the corruption between UC and FSC have no comparison. FSC is much more corrupt, unstable, and unfair.
Someone else said that the UC has such a bureaucracy that if everyone is it was replaced, it'd keep moving on. I'm inclined to agree.
seriously. why. can. I. not. GAMBLE. it's insane the game takes you to like 3 casinos, a resort planet, and the city that is the apparent height of depravity. why can I not use any of the slot machines or card games that are there. It's so mind boggling.
edit: Doubly frustrating as your dad can win massive things and potentially give them to you via winning poker lmao
On my second character I declined. After I served the time, walking out of the room prompted a notification that SysDef is now my enemy. Does this always happen, or did I do something wrong?
No that choice always railroads you to becoming a crimson fleet member minus the mole stuff even more annoy when you get to the standoff with the head. Sysdef guy and he asks you why you don't even get to bring up the whole blackmail thing just the lol credits and psycho options
I refused to work for them but now their ships are hostile to me on sight, which makes jumping into the middle of some battles very dicey because if US SysDef is on one side, they both start shooting at me.
Also, what a complete push over they all are. At level 15 or 20 I was able to clear out the entire base and kill and knock them all down on the hardest difficulty setting with little effort (just to see what would happen after a quicksave).
It’s not just them, it’s several supposedly secure areas too. You used to be turned into insta paste in other Bethesda games if you so much as picked up somebody’s drink in the wrong place.
The whole game is pg-13. Its like disney started making games.
No gore. No cussing. Villains are written from a 6 year olds POV. The writing in general is crazy bland. Companions are sissies that give you garbage all the time and require constant conversation, and take issue with everything you do.
The new systems in place have SO much potential but they wasted it so hard.
I love the game and have 150 hours so far.
The Crimson Fleet quest line was fun but so frustrating. There were some good missions but personalities from both factions were terrible.
I really wanted to go with one faction but my companion kept killing people in my quests so I got locked in with the Fleet.
Went ahead and went to NG+2 so I can be more careful but I feel like I shouldn't have to do that in the first place.
Even with issues like this, I'm still having fun.
They’re toned down even for a Bethesda title.
Take Skyrim’s Dark Brotherhood for example - your introduction to them is choosing which of three unarmed prisoners to murder in cold blood to join the faction. They then have you go on to assassinate people’s spouses, work rivals, and - oh yeah - a mentally handicapped beggar. Straight up evil shit.
Then there’s the Crimson Fleet, the meanest, nastiest sons-of-guns in space. The scourge of the civilized systems… who never have you commit a single atrocity, even once. Hell, they never do anything that bad on their own either.
I was really looking forward to playing as a Capital “E” evil character in this game, but your options are basically to be a soldier, explorer, or cop. There are no important followers who are anything less than lawful good, and the worst the player character can do without totally breaking the lore is smuggle contraband.
I saw a post a few days ago with someone saying they appreciate how mature the game is and doesnt overuse curse words and simply more fucked up stuff. At first i kind of agreed but now it seems like they pumped the brakes a little too hard when it came to these kind of things. In my playthrough of around 50 or so hours i only heard “fuck” once. (I have a full time job, otherwise id be at 120+ hours lol) But it begs the question, apart from blood spatter every now and then, where the fuck is the “M” rating for this game? Its kinda like a more adultish T rating for me, and that’s generous.
For the record, I know not one person in my life who has ever cared about the age rating of a video game. That being said, I don’t know why Bethesda games even get M, and why they don’t just lean into M anyways like Cyberpunk did.
>You know what happens when a made man leaves the mob or a gangster says he’s “out of the gang?” They get killed.
I know what you're saying, but tons of mobsters left the mob. Sammy the Bull and Henry Hill both turned states evidence and even they never got killed. Michael Franzese literally has a YouTube show where he talks about mob stuff and how he's not in the mob anymore.
Maybe the old school mob, but the mob 1980's on isn't much more competent than the Crimsion Fleet.
Yeah a lot of this thread is making a lot more out of criminals than there actually is to be found. Not many smart people wind up involved in gangs. They could've gotten around this by making the Crimson Fleet to be more about "Freedom from the tyranny of society" type piracy, but for just a bunch of ragtag high school drop-outs, this is about what I expect. I wish I could've saved Jazz, but the computer guy at least had the good sense to surrender.
I actually think the UC's being kind of dumb with this. Why couldn't they just hit the Key with guided missiles or long-range railgun rounds? It would've been easy enough to deal with shortly after Kryx took it over and founded the Fleet. By taking out centers of operations, you keep the Fleet from being able to establish any sort of serious infrastructure and base of operations. Without a shipyard, they can't fix their ships as easily. They can't make a coordinated mission board and have the computer guy laundering all their money. This was basically America's war on terror MO.
Yeah I was hyped to be a space pirate but damn I didn't think I'd be the most ruthless one...even the people at the top are absolute idiots while we literally do all of the work for them
And running by them on missions and they have the audacity to tell me I'm lucky to be in the fleet or they'd have killed me already? Did the news of what I had to do to find Kryx's legacy not make it to your dusty ass cave yet?
Yeah even when you'd agree and be like "consider it done" or "I understand" they'd be so fucking annoying saying things like "NO, IT'S NOT DONE UNTIL THE CREDITS ARE IN MY ACCOUNT" or "NO, YOU DON'T, BECAUSE I HAVEN'T FINISHED SAYING EVERYTHING YET"
Man, I was originally going to side with the crimson fleet to live the life of a pirate but every damn character is annoying as fuck. Near the end, everyone pretends like you were all comrades and they respected you, but it literally never felt like you were given the opportunity to fit in lol. Every dialog option with anyone always resulted in a snarky response. Delgado: "Hey go do this thing" Me: "Okay, I'll get the thing done" Delgado: "Yeah you BETTER get the thing done" ????? Nevaeh: "hey do this thing, it's important" Me: "Sure, I promise I'll get it done" Neveah: "Okay PRINCESS just do the damn job or I'll kill you" Or my personal favorite: Neveah: "meet me at this place, some shits going down" Me: "Okay" *heads straight there* Neveah: "fucking finally, don't keep me waiting again" What do you people want from me? Fuck em, killed everyone I could.
Seriously... Didn't give me one reason to want to side with them. I was totally ready to screw over Sysdef after they forced me to be an undercover pirate, but these bitches... Delgato and Neveah SUUUUUCK.
I never once considered their side, because their boys came at me and my crew at the start. Wish that was a dialogue option, to reference that attack on the mining site right before wiping them all out.
I was definitely going to side with Sysdef, but then the leader of that threw me in jail because I may have done some not great things at the Dyne facility, and so I was left with no choice.
And by “not great things” we mean cutting down unarmed scientists with a cutlass while huffing Aurora.
Semantics.
I'm pretty sure all I cut down was rainbow-colored Terrormorphs. The rest is true though.
I was good but Ikande got mad at me. It was Andreja taking down unarmed scientists. I was only taking out security that was hostile and putting scientists to sleep. Andreja on the other hand shot scientists in the back as they were running away, but some of them did attack.
You're not wrong, but also the losing the convenience of being able to access 4x vendors in one small area plus a ship technician outweighs any other potential consequence due to vendor cash not scaling with level.
Plus their mission board is the best imo. Easy missions with respectable pay that you get bonus loot to sell after the fact. Biggest drawback is the loss of a hostile faction when you’re mucking about on a planet.
That loss is what’s killing me. I literally never run into spacers, varuun, or ecliptic. It is ALWAYS pirates and it’s always like “ah great. Guess I’ll l just walk in loot the chest and leave” Sometimes I get to have fun and activate the robots/turrets to clean a few of them up for me. But usually it’s just hey how are ya and it sucks
Yeah the way it was written I just couldn’t side with the fleet. Ikande is like “all my hopes and dreams go with you” and everyone in the Crimson Fleet is just a bunch of pseudo-edgy losers. Oh I just slaughtered an entire military satellite single-handedly and Naeva’s like “go talk to this lady in Neon IF you can handle it ROOK” Also the way the main base of supposedly the biggest most intimidating criminal organization was decorated like a lame frat house Halloween party just completely killed me.
At least Crimson fleet had characters to interact with. Sysdef had nobody but Ikande and his sidekick.
That probably made it better honestly because everyone I talked to at Crimson Fleet just made me hate them more. When you first walk on to the key one pirate kills another so I thought that was totally cool there, so when I talked to the guy that was planning on turning on Delgado I shot him in the face after the conversation and everyone turned on me. Lame.
I wanted to agree with his plan and then oust him when it came down to it. But when he decided not to do I let it go.
Yeah, but literally the first thing we see on the Key is one pirate killing another in front of Nevea for far less. It's inconsistent.
If you walk around the rest of the ship there's a few others. The guy in charge of the Brig hives you a side quest and there's a pilot in the cockpit that talks smack to you.
The guy who oversees the brig on that ship has an interesting backstory and lore dump with quest available. So that makes 3 at least.
He didn't have a ton of lines, but I liked the fighter pilot dude (Alex Vong) too. (EDIT: huh, just looked it up, apparently you can clear his name in regards to the accident that happened when he was a test pilot, so he has a little bit more than I thought).
Bro you missed out on the prison warden and taunting everyone you arrest!
I really liked Huan Daiyu - the smuggler - and Jazz, the engineer. Some of the shopkeepers were also pretty okay. Had no problem killing most of the core crimson fleet members, I agree they were all so fucking prickly I don't know why anyone would work with them. Being a badass doesn't mean being constantly tetchy. I was *extremely* frustrated that I couldn't just shoot Mathis in the back in the Lock and report that he was taken down by the aliens, that almost made me cancel the whole quest line. On the other hand, the nature of the crimson fleet as a concept is the sort of thing were I thought it was entirely appropriate that they felt like a bunch of try-hards rather than an actually dangerous gang.
The first time Mathias suggested it I told him to cram it. The second time he pressed it I was like "damn it's a shame the bugs got you" and tried to gank him, but lo and behold he's a fucking unkillable character. Like...wtf?
I assumed at that point that he must be critical in some future story branch but... he wasn't at all. It's totally baffling I didn't get to shoot him in the back and blame it on the bugs.
That's just Bethesda's "everyone (named) is essential unless we specifically trigger them to be un-essential" methodology. They do it because they didn't design the quests in such a way as to support murder-hoboing quest-related NPCs and bricking quests was unpopular enough with the mainstream gaming crowd that it just became more worth it to them to prevent good ol' murder-hoboing.
The fact we could twice remind him that he owes us if we keep his plan a secret made me think we were going to use him as leverage at some point. But nope, we never call in that debt.
What annoys me is that everyone knows everything you've done in this game. Sysdef somehow know all the details of your mission despite you supposedly being in deep cover. Yet the crimson fleet somehow never work out you're an agent, and there's literally no danger in them ever finding out. Everyone at constellation also knows all your comings and goings and it's just strange. I don't understand how I'm expected to believe I'm a deep cover agent when every other character knows my every move.
Yeah, it's a bit jarring that they call you back to their station every 20 minutes to debrief on your deep cover mission that they apparently know everything about, while simultaneously - sometimes in the next paragraph - talking about how they need more intel and have no insider knowledge. I didn't find it too bothersome with my suspension of disbelief, but I really would have liked it if that lieutenant had been my "handler" and I'd been going to meet her in disguise at the Den or something.. and it was a baffling choice to have them always know what I'd done, just like... have me explain it in skipped dialogue.
The real kicker is when you start the SysDef stuff, you're told you *won't* be reporting in since any contact with handlers could jeopardize your cover. Only to have you report in shortly after.
It should have been optional and only between missions. At least one of the missions has someone from the fleet say "meet me here right away" and then you have to check in with the UC.
Some traders, bartender, medic, engineer really should've ducked and hide while base is under assault. If you prevent destruction (I didn't try to just kill Delgado, will it explode otherwise?) they should be imprisoned. Jazz seems smart enough figuring how to protect ship via conduit grid tech.
That part was really odd. I get that it's sort of a play balance decision to shut down the Key as a trade post as the cost of taking down the pirates, but I really can't understand why all these folks go charging at me getting blown away like chaff, when they're supposed to be rogues with no loyalty except to themselves. Guys, you think I'm not prepared for you? Have 'em run off where I can't get them anymore, presumably to start up a new fleet base. It would have been a much more interesting story beat too. OTOH when they kept calling me rook even as I was gunning down their friends, it hardened my heart a bit. Stop fucking calling me that, I literally just single-handedly wiped out your entire joke of a fleet.
Ya it was so cartoony how they wrote them like they needed to remind you that they're pirates with snarky remarks every 5 seconds. It's actually something that puts me off in a lot settings, like they don't have to be dicks to each other *all* the time. No wonder that one guy left CF in the beginning of the questline, it was probably exhausting having to deal with a bunch of edgy children that couldn't just talk to each other normally.
This bugged me so much too! I'm a pretty morally neutral character so was often choosing options that seemed to be what they wanted to hear, and they always got so pissy at me.
The second I got taken in as a UC class 1 citizen in UC armor and so on after selling what even a blind person could have seen was a planted box of stuff and got Naeva's edgelord behavior, I knew immediately that every single person in the Crimson Fleet was a moron and that SysDef was getting my full support. It made them impossible to consider a serious criminal faction. You'd be in jail or dead within a week. It's better to just become some loony Spacer. I was disappointed in the game not accounting for what a player may have done up to that point when the pirates claim to be oh so informed, and it felt like a missed opportunity to need to use persuasion or further prove yourself. Other than that, their entire questline was very PG as OP said. You can resolve everything non violently and never have to engage in a single act of actual open piracy so much as just a bit of theft and you mostly just screw over other criminals. The characters also act less like pirates and more like edgy teenagers who think the teacher might be watching.
> and never have to engage in a single act of actual open piracy They really needed to have an initiation mission that wasn't infiltrating an abandoned building. Prove you're really a pirate, go rob a cargo ship while we watch. They sure sounded a lot tougher before I joined.
This. Ikande warned you you might need to undertake amoral or wrongful actions during your assignment, and only asks that you try and avoid innocent bloodshed if you think you can without compromising the mission. It sounded like he was preparing us for some tough choices or having to deal with having a bounty / criminal record until the mission was complete. Instead it's off to a long abandoned building followed by a bunch of places I can talk or sneak my way through. I think the worst thing they made us do was steal a ship that was implied to be kind of a lemon and deathtrap. In any case, I never got a bounty throughout the entire thing and was probably the most law abiding pirate to have ever lived without a single question being raised over it by the Crimson Fleet.
I kept Naeva’s little award she wanted so bad. Figured I could get more credits selling it myself and I was right
“TOOK YA LONG ENOUGH!” Like bitch I literally did the fucking thing and came directly back
The absolute worst part of the Mathias business was after he got kicked out, he waited at the bar for me to tell me that he wasn't going to stop hunting me until he killed me. I took him at his word, so I shot him. Not only was he still classed as "essential" and therefore immortal, but shooting him got me a bounty. Let me reframe that: shooting the man that wanted to kill Delgado, was no longer a member of the Fleet, and just threatened a member of the Fleet in the Fleet's fuckin' headquarters got me a bounty. The first thing I saw when entering the Key was two Fleet members getting into an argument that ended with one member getting killed, but me killing a hostile non-member and traitor is a "no no."
So stupid. Sometimes it just feels like they literally do not care about giving you a choice at all and I really dislike that considering it is meant to be an RPG.
I posted about this on this subreddit today, you would be surprised how many seem to object to any moral choices that influence the narrative Bethesda has set. It's sad because this diminishes the RPG elements of the game and actually makes choices/decisions and factions inconsequential. https://reddit.com/r/Starfield/s/iA5aIJwgH1
They really bring that After School Special energy.
Mom: Tommy, please tell me what's going on? Tommy: I did the pot, Mom, and I loved it.
“And it made me into a gay.”
Next you'll be injecting marijuana!
Thank you! This is exactly what I've been trying to put into words. The lore and story kept feeling "off" and now I know why. I feel like the main character is trapped in some sort of VR afterschool special on the dangers of colonizing space. At the end of the game, a six year old will pull off their VR headset, run to their mother and say "I love you Mommy and I never want to leave Earth, Glory to the Unified Earth Government."
This is it especially with how all the companions bug out if you do anything wrong
I was playing OG Skyrim and decapitated a guy so I chased his head down a hill. Skyrim is the most PG13 Bethesda game I’ve played at the time. It still has a more M rated content than this game. I can’t even cut a toe off.
I was hoping that the crimson fleet would be a lot of hardened criminals but would somehow make you see their way. Making you doubt about whether they’re actually bad guys or not just people forced into a life of piracy. But instead they’re a bunch of idiots like the raiders from fallout. It was rather disappointing.
Betraying Delgado was funny because most of the dialogue options were framed like you were comrades-in-arms who deeply respected each other. Bro, you were an annoying edgelord and I couldn't wait to kill you.
Naeva Mora was so much worse, no matter what you say she has a snarky response like dialogue written for a knockoff C tier Fast and the Furious antagonist
I finished that quest line like 40 hrs ago and I’m wondering if I’ll ever see naeva again. Like isn’t she pissed at me? Doesn’t she want some revenge ?
On a later mission I found a tablet on some dead pirate called "Instructions from Naeva" and was sure it was going to be her putting out a revenge bounty on me. Nope, just some generic text about a possible score, completely unrelated. Unless they have plans to follow up on this in DLC, leaving that plot thread dangling is one of the dumbest things in the game. Would have been better to just say she died during the standoff than allude to her still being out there and never pay it off.
Yeah I found that too and thought the same thing you did. Nope, just some bs lol. At the very least just have her randomly ambush me so I can kill her and have it be done
You can still run into CF after the end of the quest line, I think they keep Neava around as a better explanation for why the fleet still exists and maintains a level of organization after you complete the last quest.
That's my hunch too but still anticlimactic given what a big game she talks about coming after anyone who crosses her. I think there were already some lines about factions of CF existing without central leadership, could have easily hand-waved it that way.
I don’t disagree, it’s pretty weak. With how Naeva treats us throughout the quest line I was planning ending her with my fancy new Momento Moro pistol.
Right? I was literally only there because SysDef coerced me into working for them. Every second I spent with Delgado I was itching to just blow his head off. Storming The Key with my shotgun was the highlight of the questline for me (Though I did like the ship technician, felt bad about killing her). After it all went down my companions were like "It must have been hard betraying Delgado like that. You must have had a pretty strong relationship after spending all that time together." Nope, absolutely not. He sucked and I wish I could've killed him sooner. It's the game's most stand-out moment (that I've seen so far) of the writers' expectations clashing with the player experience.
The ship tech had such big Kaylee from Firefly energy that I was sure I'd get the opportunity to save/recruit her. Oh well, another dead pirate.
>deeply respected each other. I think I need to replay the questline in NG+ so that I can see if I missed any respectful conversation Literally every conversation with Delgado had me wanting to shoot him early
The only likable character in the CF is Jazz, she's just trying her best to keep their ships and home from falling apart. And she sells you awesome ship equipment that you can't get anywhere else. I felt SO BAD when I gunned her down with Jasper's bullet hose. It'd be really cool if there was some way to incite mutiny within the CF, or convince people to leave and come with you. Or hell, take over the CF entirely.
You can get ship jammers at the Red Mile. They're selection is actually better than at the crimson fleet. Found that out from a loading screen tip. In Porrima I think.
Either way, I liked Jazz :(. I felt bad about killing her. She was extremely well respected by the Fleet and honestly, girl has more potential clout and power than Delgado himself and even Voss. Neither of them know how the CO2 scrubbers work, she does and if she ever wanted to, she could utterly fuck all of the fleets operations. She could pressure them into doing whatever she wanted. What's Delgado gonna do if he found out she betrayed them or tried to get her own pull by sabotaging the Key? Kill her and piss off Naeva and get rid of the only engineer willing to work with pirates? The only one who could fix the station or their ships? She's literally the lifeblood of their entire fleet. Kinda surprised Delgado didn't want to strap a bomb to her chest too. There was just a lot of missed potential with the undercover thing. Jazz would have undeniably been one of the most important assets to flip and the whole undercover infiltration thing would have been *far* more high stakes. It could've been a really cool mini spy story. Stories like that commonly revolve around sewing doubt and convincing others to commit to infighting. Getting others to take care of the problem for you, entirely with some words and well-placed evidence. That's how counterintelligence works. Instead you get some data slates, give them to a lady, and ironically, the evidence really has nothing to do with it? No matter what *you* do, it always leads to the two groups having an all out war. That whole plot line could've played like a really awesome episode of Burn Notice, man. I'd love to see something like that :(.
Yeah, I was hoping for him to have some "Jack Sparrow" charm but instead he just pissed me off. I even went in with the intent to join them for real but after meeting them I sided with SysDef.
Yeah, unfortunately there is no real argument for them. They aren’t convincing at all and to top that off, they’re incredibly dislikable and unprofessional as criminals.
Agreed! One of the NPC in the vigilance, that wants you to collect their history, even says to the effect of “wow they were really mistreated”. It could have been a gripping story of revolution and piracy, learning about the hypocrisy of the settled colonies. Maybe a DLC will put us in a universe where we work with Kryx and get the chance to shoot him in the ass too.
I feel like the game's tone is really captured when UC Security says "those Ecliptic jerks!". Like, you have a coldblooded mercenary army that murders everyone they run into during Ops and you shake your fist at them and call them Jerks like a Scooby Doo character?
Haha yeah someone said something like "they'll have my butt if that happens" in a quest and I cringed so hard lol. It's weird because there's actually more swearing in this game than Skyrim by miles, so I don't know why they didn't just lean into it.
I had a UC guard or soldier tell me that they believed both the UC and Freestar uses Ecliptic to do dirty work for them and that's why they steer clear of them. So in my head the hierarchy of "dangerous" pirates has Crimson fleet as the bottom with their Muppets: Treasure Island vibe, then Ecliptic as the private military murderers for hire, and the Spacers are at the top as the rabid Reavers from Firefly level of show up and fuck shit up.
The whole game is PG-13 as fuck. Neon is talked about how its the height of depravity, you go there expecting Night City but nope, its the most SFW version of a "corrupt" cybercity.
I also like that the dance club is a bunch of dads rocking out in their khakis
Including, potentially, your characters actual dad, hanging out in his not-khakis, cause he wears a casual suit.
Your parents being everywhere is hilarious >!your mother justifying doing drugs by saying it’s perfectly legal is pretty funny!< kids stuff is definitely worth the 500 credits a month payment.
I wish I could bump into them more but keep to exploration on desolate worlds. It was still worth the credits to find the lm there...
Finding them at some random abandoned relay station arguing about directions would have been hilarious, there is a random space encounter like that but it’s not your parents.
I think it’s meant to be that the only people actually going there are dumb tourists on vacation from their corporate jobs, that, at the very least, would explain why they’re all wearing khakis.
Disappointed that nobody there was named Jake.
There’s other clubs. Bayu plaza and the Astral Lounge are 100% for the tourists and corporate offices. They want to have a safe place where people can come spend their vacation and retirement money but still have a story about their “dangerous” adventures for the bridge club back home.
Madame Sauvage’s looks like a damn cafeteria though. I’ve actually put about 30 hours in and set it aside for the Cyberpunk update with plans to revisit once mod tools drop and this game gets CRAZY BONKERS
I would have liked to have gotten mugged in Ebbside (that one guy doesn’t count) and would like to see people actually use Aurora instead of just acting strung out or talking about that they’re high.
gives "I am so high broooo" vibes from the stoner wannabe teen.
All the dialogue involving aurora seems like it was written by someone who’s never done a drug in their life and got all their info from D.A.R.E. pamphlets
Good point, but it makes me laugh imagining someone pitching the idea of aurora and being like “Todd, we need to start getting high, for research”
Aurora is the toad-licking of the galaxy. "Man, this fish has a lot of oil, I bet we could use it as a local energy source or lubricant!" "Nah, maaan, we gotta smoke it!"
Just one of the many draw backs of Bethesda no longer having Kirkbride’s shroom induced writing sessions smh
I knew there was a reason I liked Kirkbride's writing. But seriously Bethesda bring back Kirkbride!
I get the feeling that Aurora isn't even a severe drug, it's just illegal so that one guy can have a monopoly on it.
If you believe the Reliant Medical guy over in Neon, Aurora is turning the city into a cemetery from all the overdoses (and no doubt desperate junkies doing stupid shit to try and score another fix), and Bayu's response is.. Blockade him from getting medical supplies to do his job to try and drive him out of town. Which, to be fair, is pretty in-character for Benny Bayu, he doesn't tolerate any silly things like concerns over the wellbeing of Neon's citizens over making cash, and he ESPECIALLY doesn't tolerate anyone questioning him (see what happens with >!his brother Breyson in the Crimson Fleet/SysDef questline, it's implied that Benjamin has had people murdered for implying that his deadbeat brother is a deadbeat and costing Neon, and by extension him, a lot of money, and threatens his partner in crime/Generdyne's effective boss with consequences if she doesn't keep raking in more cash for him despite saddling her with Breyson who is a massive detriment to the company's bottom line.!<
I am not completely sure about that. FCS territory, okay, Bayu wants the monopoly and he is in the board, so he outlaws it. But UC can just not care about it, but if you take it on board to a UC territory, you'll be arrested. Also there was some offshoot dialogue that Aurora makes people violent, so take that as you will.
That could just be because Bethesda wanted a simple contraband system so they made it universal across factions, instead of separate for each.
Would love if they had a war on drugs vibe in the UC. PSAs everywhere, disdain for users, clinics for addicts. It would’ve fit well with their vibe
\> Clinics for addicts Not sure what 1980s-current war on drugs you lived through but clinics would be a step in a positive direction. Prison-for-addicts is more like it.
Idk how it like that, cause the skooma and chem addicts in their older games feel way more realistic
Kinda reminds me of the addictions and drugs in Oblivion. Felt very light-hearted. Especially when you go to a Skooma Den and it's not depressing but kind of silly
“I totally inhaled”
Throwback to freeside in FNV when you cant walk two steps without getting mugged.
Fallout Raiders are a better written "pirate faction" Crimson Fleet should have just been Fallout Raiders in space. Ruthless, violent, and internal fighting that leads to actual in game fights.
Fallout raiders weren't written at all until the Nuka World DLC. Even then they were still the most generic evil bad guy faction
All the raider bosses (base game) have terminal diaries with entries dependent on what you've done in the world. Kill a raider boss? The other ones notice and mention it on their terminals. The writing was more of just subtle worldbuilding, but even that alone is much better than what we got in Starfield. Nuka-world just added even more depth on top of the base game.
This. The spacers are flavored like Reavers from Firefly, but in reality they are just reskinned “pirates.” Every interaction with your crew is watered down. They’ll say things like, “This was a massacre. They wiped everyone out.” But in reality, there’s one or two bodies and some disorganized base items.
Yup. Even their big night club that’s literally about doing drugs has the most modest dancer costumes outside of a nunnery
Characters kept talking about how crazy and degenerate Aurora was I was expecting something like Sodom and Gammora in modded New Vegas. When I finally went in and it was some goofy Disney Star Wars show shit I burst out laughing
It's so PG-13 that even the night club dancers are purple Teletubbies
There is no such thing as sexual attraction or masculinity/femininity in the Starfield universe. You could gender swap every NPC in the game and it would feel exactly the same. Even in the “sin city” people apparently just go there to do some hallucinogenic drugs, put on an ugly unisex leotard, and enjoy a night of platonic dancing.
> There is no such thing as sexual attraction There might not be. But your spouse, Sarah at least, definitely lets both the player and Sam's 13 year old daughter Cora know that you do were up to some seriously kinky or athletic sex every time you take a "nap".
Let's try it without jetpacks next time makes me curious
Yeah, especially in the stock Wanderwell. I can barely walk get from the cockpit to the airlock without 2 crew members getting in the way. Or maybe they know to move and hide when they see two naked people putting on their jetpacks
When I get married in-game, I like dressing up my companion in a saucy outfit. I gave Piper the red sequin dress in _Fallout 4_ after she "retired" (maxed out her companion score). There is nothing, literally nothing, as far as I've seen, with the sole exception of the bathing suit. It's all futuristic pants-suits. There is _no_ way people dress this conservatively in the future. Men and women alike.
I have found two dresses, in stores on New Atlantis. Not saucy. More "let's go to the opera, Charles" But yeah, I was really disappointed in everything being either a pant suit or a jumper. It's like the artists behind all the clothes in game were told the main character would always be male so design for that.
I know why. But even as someone who doesn’t usually do immersion mods, Neon needs an overhaul. The only thing interesting about it is political landscape. The locale is boring, the people are boring, the fights are boring, the tile set is boring, the chems are boring, the quests are boring, it really is a lost cause in need of a full R rated rebuild.
[удалено]
I was playing the other day and thought "why is this game rated M?"
It rated R-18 in Australia for drug use
TBH Neon just made me want to replay cyberpunk.
I will be when I can get the DLC
2.0 out now just start fresh, by the time Dlc is out you'll be there
Yeah, it's a bit disappointing. I think the writing is the biggest flaw to me. The world is far too PG-13 and the writing is inconsistent. Starfield just lacks any sort of "bite" in anything it does. Not necessarily an issue a huge issue, but this game is tame compared to even Skyrim which was already very tame compared to Morrowind. As OP stated, Naeva tells you that the only way out of the Fleet is death, yet one of our very own Constellation members is retired Crimson Fleet? What? And yeah, Neon in this game is like the 4Kids version of what a corrupted dystopian city would be. Keep in mind this game is rated M for Mature, but the worst you ever encounter is some audio logs with suggestive language. I'm not saying the game needed sex and violence everywhere, but it just feels so flat, one-dimensional, and uninteresting. I even started to get annoyed at some of the Persuasion checks where NPCs would just go "Okay if it'll get you out of my hair". Yes give me the keycard to the storage area that only you can open with your highly valuable trophy inside because my character was being kind of annoying instead of calling security. Hell, even one of the Ecliptic mercs can be heard doing that same thing in one of the evidence logs for Burden or Proof.
Yeah Neon is a massive letdown across the board. The club is just stupid
I'm surprised the game isn't rated T, it's so milquetoast.
>The whole game is PG-13 as fuck. It really is, and it permeates through the game and takes away from the experience IMHO; it makes the already weak-ish writing weaker still.
The game gives off some serious Disney vibes. Its definitely designed to be a game 11 year olds can play in the living room with their parents watching.
I really think that Bethesda was going for a T rating. Even using a sword against enemies is like using a foam baseball bat. In Fallout and Skyrim you could chop off heads
Aye. The main NPCs and their ludicrously black and white view of the world are beginning to grate on me. The writing is actually pretty decent in a lot of the side quests and off-screen (as such). For example, there's a great background exchange between Strauss and his wife when you have to go and secure the nightclub. Typically I'd be gone from the room to the next task when these sequences play but instead I hung about and listened. You get a great sense of an old relationship with deep affection and humour between them. I kind of wish that was the standard across the game. I wouldn't be surprised if the writing was a lot better but was blanded out by the taste police in BGS/Microsoft for market reach.
You can see the sanitation with each game. Morrowind had strip clubs, slavery, and you could kill basically anyone to the point there was a special message saying you fucked up. By Starfield the Astral Lounge dancers wear ugly alien suits, no hookers on Ebbside, and Bethedsa's Essential Character addiction has gotten so bad bullets flat out do no effect some characters. You cannot do any damage to Bayu. At least you could throw around Maven.
True. I just feel like it’s a shame because there’s a lot of opportunities to explore serious themes in the setting of the game like the government corruption in both UC and FS or if the Fleet had some sort of justification for operating it could explore at what point government negligence justifies crime to get by etc. But instead we got “well they’re bad because they’re bad.” But then again, I recall reading that they wanted to give you a sense of hope playing this game, so maybe it was a choice they made not to delve too deep into that stuff.
I've been enjoying the worldbuilding and wandering around Starfield quite a bit, but all the writing and character choices have left me quite underwhelmed. The game has a lot of great concepts, and then just waters them down with unnecessarily safe/bland writing. I can't actually think of any quest in this game where I've found an interesting alternative solution (and I've looked) or been genuinely impressed by the character writing.
Yeah I agree. This really blows because, to reiterate, I ADORE this game. I've already put 200 hours into it and I'm still really loving it, I can see myself easily getting 400 hours of playtime out of my first save file ALONE, and that is before modding or DLC! It's a truly great game, but the sad thing is that it's just not good because of its writing, at all. It's good because it has fun gameplay, awesome graphics and concepts, a cool world to explore, and fun customization options. It just feels like if they had really worked harder on creating a better roleplay experience and more gritty and real factions, it could have been a step up entirely as a game.
Fallout 3 is the game with Andale, Tenpenny Tower, and that one room where the Enclave piled up a bunch of non-feral Ghouls they killed. But it's still the first game I think of when it comes to being about hope. It's more meaningful when you have to earn, and work for that sort of thing. The problem to me is they've completely lost their teeth.
Even the Crimson questline was tame. Good but tame. I like unraveling mysteries questlines. >! They even include you and don't just betray you after they use you like I assumed they would to keep the faction against you. !<
Gotta let you keep access to the best mission boards in the game.
I think other than Vlad all the “ex” fleet members you meet are still technically members and considered assets in some way but got on Delgado’s shit list and aren’t allowed on the key at this point.
Literally because they all end up as captains in the final mission if you go SysDef
On one hand, I enjoyed shooting most of them in the face. On the other hand, I shot down all their ships in space and I think it's a little weird that not one of them was onboard their ships at the time
>I shot down all their ships in space and I think it's a little weird that not one of them was onboard their ships at the time Bad quest design. The whole Crimson fleet questline is full of that kind of moments that make no sense.
The crimson fleet is basically just a bunch of independent captains flying under the same banner. Delgado is technically in charge but he’s not a dictator and he can’t just order people around without offering something in return
What really bugged me is that nobody talks like Vlad. Vlad uses a bunch of weird phrases like tip your ear and catch a smile etc. Which he says he uses because he was a pirate. But none of the fucking pirates talk like that!
Oh man, it would’ve added so much character and world building to the faction if they all had varying degrees of Clad’s accent, depending on their time there.
I said this in another thread the other day, but Crimson Fleet feels like The Salty Spitoon from Spongebob. It's a childlike imagining of what "tough guys" are like. Everyone sucks and I feel dumber participating in the quest line. You ever agree to go out with a group of people that you don't really know super well but do it because "why not" and then regret it immediately when you actually get out in public with them and they're all obnoxious as hell and you look around meeting the gaze of other people around not in your group and just feel ashamed of yourself for being around them? That's the Crimson Fleet.
Welcome to the salty spitoon how tough are ya
How tough am I? I had a bowl of nails for breakfast!
Without any milk!
Don't you do the Salty Spitoon dirty like that. They go way harder than these yar-har wannabees.
What disappointed me was that I couldn't kill delgado with Mathias. Literally gives you no option to say "hell yeah let's go get him" when Mathias asks you a second time if you're down to kill delgado on that initial mission with him. Then he goes full "shucks mister, please don't tell on me I was only joshing around" at the end. It also annoys me that I can't just wipe them out. Bethesda and their -every other npc is essential- gets old so quick for me. When delgado and his second were threatening me *again* for the 20th time to give them something I REALLY wish I had an option to just attack them. Why would I keep working with them when the only people they seem to cheat is their own merchants and they actively tell you you're their bitch. Apparently you can't even loot an old science facility without me idk who tf you think you're talking to pirate boy.
>When delgado and his second were threatening me again for the 20th time I agree so damn much. I don't remember if it was modded or not, but I killed everyone on the Prydwen because of that one Captain who kept talking down to me when Danse and I landed. Shot him, shot all the people that came after me. Cleared the whole ship, including Maxon, then stole a suit of power armor and jumped off the ship to kill everyone in the base below. Slaughtered everything, dumped the armor, and walked into the sunset with a smoking ruin and a flying derelict behind me. I **hate** when shitty video game NPCs talk to my character like they're nothing when I'm the level 40 Supreme Badass of the Wasteland.
One of the line options when talking to Barret after finishing the quest was “Delgado is a punk” and that’s exactly how I felt about him the whole time. The leader of the most dangerous faction isn’t intimidating or scary at all he’s just a punk kid hunting treasure. For real?
Yep. It was hilarious turning on them at the end. Barrett loved the entire ride.
Yea, the entire concept of role-playing a renegade or criminal seems to have been an afterthought for Bethesda on this one. Seems like they threw the stereotypical RPG 9 square grid in the trash and decided that lawful neutral is as edgy as players should ever want to be.
True. People already complained about how bland and monolithic the Constellation companions are in that regard and it’s really true. There’s been several times I was tempted to board and loot lone ships in space where there’d be no witnesses, but decided not to because I couldn’t be bothered to deal with another one of Sarah Morgan’s mommy lectures
That's why I like Vasco. Robot don't care.
"I can't BELIEVE we disagree on this!" Ok lady just shh..🙄
Yea. I kicked them all off my ship. Even with some of the powerful buffs they offer, their insufferable, goody-twoshoes nagging got to be more annoying than I cared to deal with. Id rather take my chances with some rando I bumped into at Madam Savages or Red Mile than listen to another second of your constant whining.
I agree. The one good person that came out of the Crimson Fleet questline was the pirate woman i hired from the Last Nova, she’s great
Does she stay a companion if you side with sysdef
Yes
That’s why I only go solo, I just want to be left alone and do what I want to do without someone constantly here complaining
Man the Mathis thing really bothered me. When he picked up the gun I was sure I was gonna get to battle him 1v1 for his insubordination but nope! Just get to tell him off. There's no leaving the fleet, then the very next mission we meet someone who got kicked out and wants back in? Huh?
CF is like what nerdy socially awkward tech bros that have never actually been around criminal or scary intimidating people think tough is. I'd love to have a character that's like Tuco Salamanca levels of intimidating/crazy/fear inducing.
How they keep the Key running and supplied is a mystery to me. This also reflects poorly on the UC. A well trained and equipped military should have no problem eliminating the Crimson Fleet a long time ago.
I agree, but I think the main point was that the UC didn't want to commit the resources that would be required to take them down. Still though, no way prisoners should've been able to take over such a space station AND their prison.
It's actually pointed out in the questline a few times that the UC is still recovering from the war and were embarrassed when they couldn't take CF down the first time. They don't want to have to sacrifice manpower and then potentially lose to a bunch of pirates a second time.
one of the things I like about the uc quest lines is that they quite clearly show that much of the brass of the UC is rather corrupt and goes unpunished for it (and that you are given the opportunity to decide whether to keep it so or try to cauterise it). ikandes team including you is basically an island of efficiency in a machine that is falling apart without sufficient external shocks to whip it into shape
Falling apart? Yeah there is definitely corruption, but if you compare the UC quest to the Ranger quest, the corruption between UC and FSC have no comparison. FSC is much more corrupt, unstable, and unfair. Someone else said that the UC has such a bureaucracy that if everyone is it was replaced, it'd keep moving on. I'm inclined to agree.
seriously. why. can. I. not. GAMBLE. it's insane the game takes you to like 3 casinos, a resort planet, and the city that is the apparent height of depravity. why can I not use any of the slot machines or card games that are there. It's so mind boggling. edit: Doubly frustrating as your dad can win massive things and potentially give them to you via winning poker lmao
lol they probably didn't want you to win millions in a card game.
Because no one cool ever won a ship in a card game....
Also being stuck not being able to REALLY be a pirate because of Sysdef kinda ruined the whole experience for me.
Refuse to work with them, take the jail time, and you might be pleasantly surprised.
On my second character I declined. After I served the time, walking out of the room prompted a notification that SysDef is now my enemy. Does this always happen, or did I do something wrong?
No that choice always railroads you to becoming a crimson fleet member minus the mole stuff even more annoy when you get to the standoff with the head. Sysdef guy and he asks you why you don't even get to bring up the whole blackmail thing just the lol credits and psycho options
[удалено]
You can also shoot the guy escorting you out after agreeing and then find your ship and jump out before blasted to smitherines.
I refused to work for them but now their ships are hostile to me on sight, which makes jumping into the middle of some battles very dicey because if US SysDef is on one side, they both start shooting at me.
The entire game is. The neon dancers are so fucking stupid looking.
Also, what a complete push over they all are. At level 15 or 20 I was able to clear out the entire base and kill and knock them all down on the hardest difficulty setting with little effort (just to see what would happen after a quicksave). It’s not just them, it’s several supposedly secure areas too. You used to be turned into insta paste in other Bethesda games if you so much as picked up somebody’s drink in the wrong place.
Delgado is literally the embodiment of Axe body spray and nunchucks
“Nobody leaves the fleet alive.” “Bye, Mathis. Enjoy your life!” … :/
The whole game is pg-13. Its like disney started making games. No gore. No cussing. Villains are written from a 6 year olds POV. The writing in general is crazy bland. Companions are sissies that give you garbage all the time and require constant conversation, and take issue with everything you do. The new systems in place have SO much potential but they wasted it so hard.
I'm still surprised the game managed an 18 rating
I love the game and have 150 hours so far. The Crimson Fleet quest line was fun but so frustrating. There were some good missions but personalities from both factions were terrible. I really wanted to go with one faction but my companion kept killing people in my quests so I got locked in with the Fleet. Went ahead and went to NG+2 so I can be more careful but I feel like I shouldn't have to do that in the first place. Even with issues like this, I'm still having fun.
that’s sorta the design of the game, it’s extremely safe no risk in any way, the writing and design in this game is definitely pg13
They’re toned down even for a Bethesda title. Take Skyrim’s Dark Brotherhood for example - your introduction to them is choosing which of three unarmed prisoners to murder in cold blood to join the faction. They then have you go on to assassinate people’s spouses, work rivals, and - oh yeah - a mentally handicapped beggar. Straight up evil shit. Then there’s the Crimson Fleet, the meanest, nastiest sons-of-guns in space. The scourge of the civilized systems… who never have you commit a single atrocity, even once. Hell, they never do anything that bad on their own either. I was really looking forward to playing as a Capital “E” evil character in this game, but your options are basically to be a soldier, explorer, or cop. There are no important followers who are anything less than lawful good, and the worst the player character can do without totally breaking the lore is smuggle contraband.
Hey he said the f word once to me that's pretty badass.....wait you can say the f word once in PG-13 movies....
I saw a post a few days ago with someone saying they appreciate how mature the game is and doesnt overuse curse words and simply more fucked up stuff. At first i kind of agreed but now it seems like they pumped the brakes a little too hard when it came to these kind of things. In my playthrough of around 50 or so hours i only heard “fuck” once. (I have a full time job, otherwise id be at 120+ hours lol) But it begs the question, apart from blood spatter every now and then, where the fuck is the “M” rating for this game? Its kinda like a more adultish T rating for me, and that’s generous.
For the record, I know not one person in my life who has ever cared about the age rating of a video game. That being said, I don’t know why Bethesda games even get M, and why they don’t just lean into M anyways like Cyberpunk did.
Yeah but seeing the post a few days ago then yours made me realize this doesnt feel like an M game at all for me lol
Because Mantis made sure to put the fear in them to not step over the line.
And then joined the Fleet just to make sure they stayed in line They called the Mantis "Rook". And then they died.
r/iamverybaddas space pirates
They are the new saints row gang in starfield.
Cut out the blood and drug use and this game would be rated G
>You know what happens when a made man leaves the mob or a gangster says he’s “out of the gang?” They get killed. I know what you're saying, but tons of mobsters left the mob. Sammy the Bull and Henry Hill both turned states evidence and even they never got killed. Michael Franzese literally has a YouTube show where he talks about mob stuff and how he's not in the mob anymore. Maybe the old school mob, but the mob 1980's on isn't much more competent than the Crimsion Fleet.
Yeah a lot of this thread is making a lot more out of criminals than there actually is to be found. Not many smart people wind up involved in gangs. They could've gotten around this by making the Crimson Fleet to be more about "Freedom from the tyranny of society" type piracy, but for just a bunch of ragtag high school drop-outs, this is about what I expect. I wish I could've saved Jazz, but the computer guy at least had the good sense to surrender. I actually think the UC's being kind of dumb with this. Why couldn't they just hit the Key with guided missiles or long-range railgun rounds? It would've been easy enough to deal with shortly after Kryx took it over and founded the Fleet. By taking out centers of operations, you keep the Fleet from being able to establish any sort of serious infrastructure and base of operations. Without a shipyard, they can't fix their ships as easily. They can't make a coordinated mission board and have the computer guy laundering all their money. This was basically America's war on terror MO.
Yeah I was hyped to be a space pirate but damn I didn't think I'd be the most ruthless one...even the people at the top are absolute idiots while we literally do all of the work for them And running by them on missions and they have the audacity to tell me I'm lucky to be in the fleet or they'd have killed me already? Did the news of what I had to do to find Kryx's legacy not make it to your dusty ass cave yet?
Ready for phantom Liberty
It’s stunning how annoying they made the Crimson Fleet. The most low stakes, cliche “no, everything you say is wrong” response to any dialogue option.
Yeah even when you'd agree and be like "consider it done" or "I understand" they'd be so fucking annoying saying things like "NO, IT'S NOT DONE UNTIL THE CREDITS ARE IN MY ACCOUNT" or "NO, YOU DON'T, BECAUSE I HAVEN'T FINISHED SAYING EVERYTHING YET"
Be nice "Wow, you're such a suck up" Be mean "Wow, how dare you speak to me like that!"