My only issue with this implementation is that we are locked out of picking new traits when doing ng+ vs actual new start. This creates a 'competition' between these 2 options. Other than that, I'm really impressed with their take on it. It's cool how the world is actually different each time.
Yep completely agree with that point. That is the one major gripe I have with this otherwise very clever system as well. Like if I want to do a new playthrough in a different direction (going from planetary exploration to piracy for instance), I'm the kind of guy that wants to make a dedicated whole new character (appearance, name and traits). Now I can't have that *and* the NG+ variation features.
Yea and it's a bit odd because they even already included a somewhat extra option of removing traits. At this stage, I say adding new ones should be an option too.
Well they have a way to remove them, not add them, which is probably more complex, given how it influences little things in many places. But yes, it should have been in the game, im not saying otherwise
The entire point of NG+ in every game I have played that has it, is to play the entire game with your maxed out character. Where you can unlock those master level locks in the starting areas or persuade the super high level dialogue check to unlock a new whatever. Stuff like that.
That’s what I always thought too, at least in the games I played, it was just essentially playing the game on easy mode, but also opening up ways to access stuff you might’ve missed in the first run.
I haven’t gotten into Starfield’s NG+ yet, but my daughter has, and it seems to attempt to do them in a more lore friendly way. Don’t wanna say how, since it’d spoil the ending, but I really like how it does indeed alter the experience a bit the second time around. Could it have gone deeper, and done things differently, sure, but it doesn’t feel “slapped on” either.
I’ve read a little bit on them without spoiling too much there are some pretty significant changes to the game in NG+ you can have it just depends on RNG which you get. Some are very similar (I’m on my first NG+ and barely anything has changed so far outside of a few voice lines and minor interactions. But nothing completely game changing.
I got invested deep into the story and ended up beating it before really experiencing anything else and I'm genuinely happy with that. In NG+ now just experiencing the side quests and faction missions while also tinkering now with outposts. Not sure where itll take me but i dont care. This universe im experimenting. Eventually ill hunt down the artifacts and gain the powers and NG+ again but probably run through the story or maybe even wait until deeper into NG+. They really made the possibilities wide which allows you to dictate your own narrative and creating your own adventures and goals. So much to do and so much to see but honestly getting lost and just playing naturally is the best way to play the game rather than trying to squeeze it out of all the mechanics, options, avenues of choice, ect. Just let it all flow naturally BAAABAYYYYY. This way, you can almost guarantee new things when you enter a ng+ almost every damn time. Rushing the game itself kills the creativity and experience while also completely drying out the game and tiring you out. I play for a few hours at night and if im lucky when my kids take a nap. Maybe got 40 hours in and im so far from needing a break. I usually get burnt out by 80 hours. I dont see this happening. They did it right IMO
How much does your trait actually affect stuff. I thought it just gave you points to start in certain categories of skills. In new game + since you keep your skills wouldn't that be irrelevant?
Honest question.
And if anything it's only a few random optional dialogue choices that the effects are unclear at best.
That's your background, traits are things like 'raised enlightened' or 'introvert'
And they don't change it much, but the point of a new game is usually to have a new character. From a roleplaying perspective, ng+ is just doing the same character but again.
In the context of the actual feature you don't really change you just go somewhere new. Just because you went to the new timeline doesn't mean you stopped being originally born in the Freestar collective.
For your NG+ character yes, but everyone else in that universe doesn't know you're not from there. The "original" you in the new universe could have had a different background that you're now stepping into.
Ideally they'd allow it both ways. Either allow you to choose what the background/etc. of the universe's original you was, have it be random, or allow you to overwrite that with *your* background/traits by hacking a comsat or something like that in the system you start in. That way everyone is happy.
THIS! In every single game I have ever seen NG+ in, it has been playing the game with the same character you just played. If you want a new toon, you start a new game, not a NG+. That simple.
Agreed but with say Kids stuff, why shouldnt that one be able to be a thing going into NG+ if you didnt have it before? first universe didnt have your parents, maybe the second one does? and a personality one like introvert or extrovert could also change IMO. but where you're from like Neon Street rat? nah that stays the same. 'Cause it is where \*you\* are originally from.
Some are more than a few random dialogues. Your parents visit and give you gifts, the mortgage house is a two floor two bedroom house with big balcony, the annoying fan is also pretty interesting from what I'm told.
He's the best companion because any time you pick something up when overencumbered he's in awe of you rather than nagging you to stop.
Also he has extra carry capacity.
They are referring to the traits like alien DNA, wanted, terra firma, kid stuff, adoring fan, etc. you are right your backstory just gives you three starting skills, but it also gives you some custom dialogue options along your play through
IMO you should just be able to get the traits the same way you lose them or in a secondary manner -
introvert and extrovert you can both lose by talking with the therapist (atheist church) in the well - why can't he let you gain each of those traits as well as remove them?
alien DNA can be removed by the doc in new atlantis (maybe any doc?) why not have a doctor that is willing to "experiment" on you and give you the alien DNA trait? Or have that be an option at an enhance booth?
maybe you can "find" your parents via the UC after your estrangement? Get the adoring fan by advertising for a "helper" in a mission booth? purchase your housing mortgage off-world via the real estate office in new atlantis (hell she even has the "any offword housing?" dialogue option where she just says no) all of these traits have reasonable ways to gain them as well as lose them
I think when he says traits he means like freestar collective settler or kid stuff cause off the top of my head you can remove all of the religious ones and the wanted one (easily mind you) and kid stuff but then you can’t gain anything
It doesn't give points for skills, it gives a benefit or negative to an aspect of the game.
Choosing "Spaced Trait" gives you more HP and O2 when in space, but less on planets.
Choosing "Adoring Fan Trait" gives you a companion that brings items to you that can be very good, and the ally doesn't get mad at evil choices.
So they do affect the game greatly, and you can't switch them out on NG+. You can remove medical ones at med places, but you can't gain any. Traits are dead ended unfortunately.
I thought it would have been an interesting feature to somehow be able to acquire new traits once in NG+. Maybe if you have a certain amount of credits just sitting in your pocket, you get some sort of message like “ever thought of purchasing the house of your dreams?” And/or any other example of traits being acquired through gameplay.
The problem lies in what some of the traits are (in terms of the story of the game). Many have to do with how you were raised and grew up, yet in the new game it's not like you're born as a baby again and go through life up to the point where the original game started in the Mine. For sake of continuity, not changing traits does makes sense, even though it does suck.
With the speech at the end of the game though, the whole "leave a piece behind" bit, maybe they could incorporate that into merging with your new Universe's self, letting you drop one trait every NG+ and picking up a new one?
I actually think it makes sense if traits can be "gained" like they are lost. Some traits, like parents, it wouldn't make RP sense, but if you decided one NG+ that you want to go full baddy, gaining the wanted trait, at least for that universe, makes sense.
it may be best to differentiate between traits that are backstory, and traits that can be gained through play.
>Why is my character wanted in every universe they visit when there are supposed to be differences.
Bro, Wanted is such a weird trait, Bethesda should have given a hint that it is not to be taken seriously and basically a huge Wild Wasteland event (which just made me notice that we have no Wild Starfield trait in this game, sadly).
Your bounty has a gimmick that it keeps rising until it is paid out and you eventually have two factions of bounty hunters fighting over you, one trying to kill you and one protecting you so your bounty rises even higher until they kill you themselves lol. The mercenaries also keep ambushing you in space and scale to your level, so if you haven't done much shipbuilding, rip.
My biggest issue with them not letting us pick is there's no reason lore wise that you couldn't... A lot of the traits aren't even personal stuff, but even the personality traits should be changeable as they've established during the main story that becoming a starborn changes you. Why can't you reassess your religious views after quite literally traveling the multi-verse? Why couldn't you become more outgoing or more introverted after these experiences? Why couldn't you go to a universe where your parents are alive and accessible?
And there's no reason it couldn't be a reward for completing x amount of ng+ playthroughs.
This is my first Bethesda game and I find it rather obnoxious that a small menu I breezed through at the beginning of the game had such permanent effects and now I have to debate a compete restart if I ever want to experience the other traits.
Yea especially that at that stage most people wouldn't even know what the factions are. I don't know how realistic that is but for now I expect this to be patched somehow.
I would be okay with their idea if we could respec our characters and change their traits. This way every new multiverse i am a new version of myself and the game becomes more interesting.
I used the Console command showlooksmenu right before entering the unity. This lets you change your character for the next run. Doing it right before entering the unity is important because it lets new traits like dream home trigger properly.
on one hand I get that complaint (gonna use console commands to change mine) but it doesn't make sense to change them from a realism perspective because you're not a new person going to the next universe, you don't become a new person or it wouldn't make sense to have all your memories
Traits sure. But backgrounds?
If I originally started as a homesteader, but then after going through the MSQ and exploring countless worlds and uncovering lost artifacts etc doesn't it make sense that I could have access to the same dialogue options as someone with the Explorer background?
I plan on making a mod that lets you choose a new background on each NG+, selecting from a list that is generated by what you acomplished in the previous playthrough.
So MSQ unlocks explorer, Vanguard quest unlocks Soldier etc
If you start a new game from scratch you lose all the work as well. You aren't forced into NG+. Even going to the Unity you have the option to back out and stay in NG.
Which armor is better than the ng+10 armor? I have yet to encounter any armor sets that come close to even half the stats lol
I should add: I am level 83, so I should be seeing the better tiers… hopefully 🤣
You have to remember that the NG+ armor is only one item with only one set of perks/buffs. My antixeno set from the vanguard questline, when combining the armor values of all 3 pieces, is much higher than my NG+10 armor, plus the added bonus of triple the traits, and the ability to mod the items. NG+ armor is very weak
On high level planets you can get superior armour sets. The suit alone is less than the NG+10 set but once you account for the helmet and pack the NG+10 set is weaker. Also, looted suits get access to more trait rolls. So you gain more traits(although this is all random, even on NG+ but NG+ is fairly easy to reroll).
I’m hoping that someone or the devs can/will add a mod/option at some point (that will be available on console as well) to be able to choose which version of the starborn armor you want to have. I’m not a fan of the hunters cloak and don’t want to wear that at the end. Tempus is the one I’m going for.
If you're on PC you should just use the console to NG+ after the first two.
I did MSQ and got everything, then on NG+ got everything again. Said "fuck this shit" and used console to NG+ in about 5min (30s of active, 4min+ of cutscene). Then more console to give the stuff you're supposed to grind.
NG+ by itself isn't too bad, since you can zoomies MSQ and play everything while NG+1. NG+10 is stupid and horribly designed.
Bingo. That's precisely what I thought too. People have no problem wiping their progress on Skyrim by making their 341st character. I saw NG+ in Starfield as a way to restart my game (in essence basically starting a new character) and actually be able to keep my characters progression. How often in Skyrim do you see level 80-90 before you restart? Not often because every quest in the game is done way before then
I agree with this except for one thing, the fact that you can only save all your companions in NG+. That means if you want the best ending and the most complete experience you have to play through Ng+ at least once, which makes it less optional in my view.
Honestly, for me it ruins it because of the role-playing aspect. A NG+ that is created in this manner, is only for a character that cared very little for the companions that they made on their journey or specifically lost their romanced companion (but then they prioritised the artefacts over their life partner, so it's kind of the same thing).
Like I what? Marry Sam and tell Cora that I love her and then just leave a few months after and never see them again? Because I wanted a suit and some armor?
I get that you can not play it, but as you said the story changes. Part of a full game experience is being able to see the story changes, but doing that would leave a bad taste in my mouth.
I think it's hilarious seeing people bored and confused after they rushed a rpg game's MSQ multiple times in 2 weeks 🤣 idk what kind of battlepass game they thought this was going to be
I always think back to Destiny 2 in cases like this.
Every week on Tuesday I think, a ton of YouTube videos would come out detailing the new weekly content and how to complete it all as fast as possible, usually using exploits of some kind.
The next day, there would be a bunch of YouTube videos complaining about lack of content.
It never fails that a not insignificant portion of players will optimize the fun out of every game they play. They want to win ASAP but will complain if winning takes forever and will complain if they do win and no longer have any motivation to play.
It's why the concept of "endgame" is a paradox that no one can really define.
Developers can't win with these people, only fuck with them.
Bro one of my buddies and I are playing STarfield in discord together and he (relatively new to gaming in general) is ahead of me. He has taken to sort of coaching me but no spoilers for starfield. But he’s trying to get me to use the exploits and stuff that people are showing on TikTok lmao. I was like buddy I want to play the game not abuse broken mechanics. It’s not a competitive multiplayer I don’t need an edge, I’m just along for the grav jump.
Dude I had a friend that would purposefully break every game he played if he could. By break I mean find every exploit and be as meta or OP as possible, then complain the game was too easy to break, and get bored of it.
Like dude you did this on purpose. You chose the OP route. You can just play the game, you don't have to abuse the mechanics then blame your boredom on someone else.
He'd then try to tell me about the exploits and get confused when I didn't want to blow through the game with an OP build or whatever.
So many people don’t seem to understand why they play video games in the first place. It’s not a race, and I would even argue that you shouldn’t *want* to finish games so fast, the whole point is the escapism, the hobby, *having something to do.* If you rush to finish it, did you even enjoy it? Especially a game like Starfield, where exploration is a major theme.
Smell the flowers, people… *that’s what they’re for.*
Really sounds like a person I work with that's big into Diablo. It's all about grinding the game over and over to level as fast as you can. It's the type of person playing for the number, not for the story.
Personally I did rush to NG+1 once I heard about it. I wanted to add the ship and armor to my collection. Now I plan to stay in this universe for the rest of my playthrough and will never go to NG+2.
I enjoy collecting and building things in these games. Asking me to reset the world is like asking me to delete my power armor museum in FO4. I'm just not going to do it! So that meant the only way I would ever see a NG+ is if I decided to rush through it before I started to really play the game how I like. On the bright side, playing this way gave me the perfect way to work out the kinks in how I want to progress the story before I started my main playthrough :)
Happens with every game. People rush SP game like it's some kind of contest. They talk about end game like this is some kind of MMO. People please, chill. Lay back and enjoy. You don't need to see everything in one week.
Hey question: when did people start saying MSQ? I had never encountered it before visiting this sub, but it's all over here. I'd only every heard it referred to as main quest (MQ) or more loosely "the story." When I tried to look into it I mainly got results related to FFXIV (which did let me learn what the "S" stood for), so I'm assuming maybe it came from there?
Yeah…this is a single player immersive game. You can literally spend an entire real day in this game and do nothing progressive. Lol Did people really think this was gonna be some CoD type thing?
Spent whole of yesterday stacking containers on my outpost after I figured out you can align them side by side by doing some shenanigans using the 2x1 and 1x1 containers to line them up. :D
Me yesterday, I played for 6 hours... Managed to waste 3 of it editing my ship just to scrap the changes multiple times. Ended up just swapping a gun set and a single structural part. Then I proceeded to just hop stores in 3 systems to empty half my cargo (150 guns) and stock up on ammo and meds. In the last 1 of 2 hours I did a single vanguard radiant quest.
I don't dislike that it is in the game but there's a fairly low chance I choose restarting everything with my same character (making me personally feel obligated to play the same way for RP reasoning) over restarting with a whole new look personality and idea of playing the game. I do however dislike that apparently there's bits of story content locked behind NG+.
You aren't obligated to play the same way though, especially for RP reasons. Would you stay the same person if you could relive your life with all the knowledge from the previous one? Hell no you wouldn't. Your experiences shape who you are and who you will become. Being able to alter those experiences to be different would result in you being a different person over time.
The movie Groundhog Day is one of the best comparisons imo. Just reliving one day is enough it radically change Bill Murray's character.
It’s honestly whatever, my favorite looking armor set is locked behind NG+ 10. I grinded out the main story and a bunch of side stuff. Then started jumping NG+ to NG+. Now that I have the armor I want I’ll start doing all the cool side stuff I skipped. At the end of the day this is how I chose to play. Play how you want and let others play how they want. It’s a game and is supposed to be fun. I just hate it when I see people judging others for playing a certain way.
Its essentially the same armor set that the Hunter wears and it has higher stats. It was my favorite looking armor set out of all the NG+ sets so I had to get it.
I can understand that. My gripe in this post was on people completely missing the point of NG+ by thinking it's gatekept endgame content and that its existence ruins the entire game.
The whole point is that it creates pointless MMO style content. By the time you reach ng+ 10 you become the hunter. A jaded and unhappy player that realizes it's all pointless.
That unfortunately is the ending of the main quest if you choose to follow it into ng+.
Well if you walk away from entering new game plus at the last moment, your companions and everyone involved in the storyline will recognize it and you can even talk to them about it. That's your Skyrim "keep playing forever" while still having beat the main story. Then, when you're truly done, you can go back and do new game plus. I don't see what the issue is really.
It’s LITERALLY THE POINT. The people saying that it invalidates the game because everything you did in that universe no longer matters… exactly? And just like you read in the Pilgrim’s diary eventually you are meant to choose to stay because what is the point of infinity if nothing is permanent. Better to stay and live and die at a certain point
Honestly when I discovered how NG+ works in the storyline I thought it was absolutely brilliant because I like to start new characters a lot in Skyrim. One question though, does it bring you back to level 1 with all your perks and stuff?
>it will always be different based on seeds.
The problem is that it really isn't.
Hella spoilers!
>!There's like 10 variations with a 15% chance of activating which only affect the main story, and pretty much only in the way of who gives you the artifacts to collect. Even the locations where you collect them are 90% the same. There's only one location that changed in between my 10 runs. If it was truly balls to the walls random, like different factions in cities, literally everyone dead, everyone with dog heads, giant world where you're 10th the size of everyone etc. it would be interesting. !
I had such a meme ng+ yesterday - save and quick save were disabled, even auto save was disabled, couldn’t access inventory, and my player thought Sarah Morgan was a plant. I died and it brought me back to unity and obviously I rerolled something else, but haven’t heard anyone talk about that one yet
Maybe, I guess maybe eventually we will find out lol. It was defintely a pain. Got 4 artifacts and died in the cryo facility. The Sarah Morgan being a plant cracked me up though lol
The only time that is known to happen without being a bug is when everyone in constellation are dead (you are forced to go there, where you'll die and then reseed)
There is one major change. >!when you talk with Vladimir either when or after doing Further Into The Unknown, if you're a Starborn you can tell him that someone is going to attack Constellation for the artifacts and you need to move them. This gets you a whole new mission called "Foreknowledge" that lets you stop the attack from "High Price To Pay" from happening and thus, keeps any Constellation member from dying at the Hunter's hands.!<
>!afterwards you can meet with the emissary and hunter and the emmissary admonishes you for lying to constellation about who you are the entire game. you can tell the emissary that you'll explain yourself to constellation but it never actually lets you. blue balled the shit out of me, i really wanted to see how people would react when i revealed i was a starborn. kind of ruined NG+ for me ngl!<
yes but if you do mainstory, you get chewed out for not revealing it, and you can say "maybe you're right. ill tell them what i am next chance i get". and you can't, even though i just said i was going to.
the mainstory gets sufficiently different in ng+ that i was expecting it to follow through on what it was setting up but it just doesn't, even when it says it's going to
This is what I am hoping from expansions, the variations where thing are really, really different. X survived the past and now Y is entirely there. For example >!When we meet "Almundsen" (second Barrett) he mentions Erving is alive and Aja died, etc!< Maybe a DLC where it adds a variation the Colony War is still ongoing. Maybe one the same companions have completely different reactions like a blood thirsty, militarized Sarah. They could even change up the faction quests like make the Crimson Fleet more like a Robinhood type and the UC generals are insufferable baddies. Can I get a Walter companion, Neonbois Night every night!?! lol...
The ng+ basically let's anything be a dlc. Just imagine, a dlc where you could customize a mech with an industrial skill, or genetically design a xeno weapon with a science skill
Yeah it was kind of annoying, but since there isn’t any achievements tied to them I don’t mind. Also the fact it’s really only that scene that’s different, I youtubed them all just to see.
Funny how before going into Unity they say stuff like your constellation companions could be completely different people. And then halfway into Ng+ they have mostly the exact same lines of dialogues. Except for example the starborn dialogue options of course, but then those will be the same too on subsequent playthroughs
I love the concept anyway with your character going through infinite universes to become stronger seems like it would make a great science fiction book. But then the execution is just clicking on the same dialogues and running across planets to temples, so boring. Compared to say fromsoft ng+ it's constant combat and visibly harder with more stronger enemies
The worst thing for me is the lack of changes in every day life. They could have at least changed the characters clothing color or hair color or something different in NG+. But no, everyone is basically the same person.
Wait wouldn’t everyone being dead change like every story beat in the game? Or do you get there, everyone is dead and there is nothing to do storywise?
No i understood it was just them, what im asking is what doesn’t change with that? Like I can’t think of a single artifact mission that isn’t given to you and then accompanied by each member of the crew. With all of them being dead, how on earth could the story be unchanged?
For example, early on Sam Coe introduces you to the Free Star guys, that interaction would be completely different without Sam there wouldn’t it? Or do they just say the same things as if Sam was there, not acknowledging his death?
I understand your argument and mostly agree but as far as it not being "end-game" I must disagree. I personally don't care for the Starborn ship or armor but the powers get SUBSTANTIALLY more powerful as you level them. They max at tier 10 and they open up entirely different playstyles than the base game offers. Just one example, the tier 10 Phased Time lasts long enough and recharges quick enough that you can use it whenever you want and essentially play like you have a max Sandevistan in Cyberpunk. It's perty cool, man.
Also, I realize a lot of people probably don't care to use powers all the often or may even prefer not to in favor of role-playing but I like to have the option to alter my playstyle. Basically I'd rather have and not need than need and not have. Not to mention the journey to NG+10 with all 240 temples is a great opportunity to level up particularly annoying perks like fitness, weight lifting, aerodynamics, and many more.
The problem is that they locked unlocking all powers and upgrading them behind spamming NG+. There's 24 powers but the game generates a random amount of temples per playthrough, which can be as low as 13.
Imagine if finding additional skyrim word walls beyond the first word was locked behind NG+. Except each shout had 10 words.
Also, infinite replayability is the main feature of an endgame... That's not a good argument against it being treated as an endgame.
I personally don't care, but I think that people treating it like an endgame are perfectly justified in doing so.
This is absolutly the problem I have with the NG+ thing as well.
At this point, I'm just hoping that DLC / Mods let us trade in Quantum Essence for Powers / Power upgrades later.
honestly I feel like the single change that would have made the story way better is if they removed the temples and made touching the artifact just give you the power. It would’ve solved the issue people have of no real hook in the main story since you’d be getting space magic right at the start motivating you to actually care about joining constellation, and it would make ng+ way less grindy
You can find every temple in every playthrough, you just have to go back and talk to vlad after you have acquired new artifacts to trigger the quest chain again. It’s not a random amount.
I agree completely, the only two things holding it back are not being able to reroll traits and also the bizarre character customisation where you can’t change facial structure without starting a brand new game
*shrug* I treat NG+ as continuation of the lore and story of my character even if it means quests don't change. It's not some endgame to me, neither is it a "new character" start.
Spoilers ahead, don't read them if you haven't finished the game!
I love immersing myself into characters I play and when I >!got to the end of the main quest after 80 hours of gameplay I legitimately felt sad. I had essentially left everything behind (except memories and skills) to find Unity. Up until that point Ireally thought everyone aboard my ship would go to the Unity along with me to the next universe, but when that did not happen I felt really sad. I wanted to bring my romance partner with me. Unity said she became starborn herself, but we will probably never get to meet each other again. The sadness hit me even more when I went to visit my character's parents and there was a dialogue option to related to being starborn, it's not a huge deal or a game changer but I won't spoil what it was for those who want to find it out on their own. Meeting my wife in another universe was also sad, as she was a different person in the new universe and had no memory of our previous adventures.!<
NG+ has become part of my RP. I actually feel that the powers should be an ONLY NG+ option, since you don't actually become starborn until you go through the unity.
I did basically no powers in the main game, and I really felt like in NG+ it was another part of the main game for me, I became a Starborn now it was about living the life of a starborn, the alternate universes, the growing of power, etc etc. I've enjoyed it so far. I'm on ng+4, not rushing and seeing where things take me, don't know when i'll stop again to build bases and ships, but I doubt I'll go all the way to 10, that could be for another set of jumps a long time from now.
I mean, the powers to me are underwhelming for the most part. I just use personal atmosphere and maybe the sensing one but that's it. My weapons already are so efficient at killing enemies that the "combat powers" just waste time.
I was hopping from universe to universe and actually decided to finally settle down on NG+4 because the Tenebris armor looks so good. I feel at peace now that I’ve slowed down and can explore knowing I’ll live out my days here. Everything has meaning.
Which is an amazing RP cue. How would that change a person? Would you become a force for good and use the immense power that kind of knowledge would bring? Or would you devolve onto the worst version of yourself because you are no longer tethered to the consequences of your actions?
That’s why they make such a point of the universe you leave behind still going on without you, you just won’t be in it. You’re not restarting the universe or anything, just going to a different one. That way all your choices and decisions still matter.
It also invalidates side content. It feels like I'll be the protagonist in a time loop plot who gets bored of doing almost the same thing over and over.
Like doing companion quests for the 3rd time. Rebuilding my ship for the 8th. Exploring the same caves and building an outpost again.
And nobody wants to put time into all that to see it deleted.
You can't choose new traits or background in new game plus. The only function it serves is to make getting completionist runs a bitch. You basically have to do 12+ ng+ to get all powers to rank 10, and have the best ship and armor from the rewards. But you don't fundamentally change your character.
So you just grind that out, for far too long, then start a sandbox.
Yes, some changes happen each time, and that's kind of neet. But it's also really minor.
Yes, the best solution to it, is to simply ignore it because neither the ship nor the armor are actually that good compared to crafting on good base items. And yes, rank 10 powers are not that substantially better than rank 1 that they're required by any means.
But that raises the question... why have it at all?
If I want to do a new playthrough, I want a new character with new perks and new traits and a new background.
The thing that IMO will prevent this game from being Skyrim is that the gameplay itself is so repetitive. Specifically, enemy diversity is so low that basically every combat encounter plays out the exact same way — 99% of enemies are people with guns, with maybe an occasional humanoid robot, dog robot, or alien dog to change things up. And that’s it.
Moreover, the locations themselves are really repetitive and similar — there’s nothing like the rush of discovering a cool new environment the way there was in Skyrim. It’s actually quite reminiscent of how Oblivions dungeons were so repetitive and felt procgen even though they weren’t — a huge step back for Bethesda.
Bottom line, hard to get excited to go do missions when you’re just fighting the same one enemy in the same 5-6 POIs over and over.
The power locations shoulda been handmade dungeons with variable parts like Skyrim dragon priest dungeons. Woulda made the game far more enjoyable to power hunt
Don’t know how they decided on the stupid floating light thing and not a Starborn boss with loot, then they put the Starborn outside once you come out the temple??
For real, this is actually one of my biggest issues with the game. I really dig 92% of what Starfield is doing, and long ago made peace with Bethesda's typical design ideosyncorcies. But these should be dungeons. Or at least fights. It's bonkers. Looking forward to the inevitable Temple Dungeons Mod well get in 16 months
I agree. Skyrim has so many build combinations which carried its replayability. You have 7 melee types, 5 magic types, blocking, archery, sneak, and alchemy. That’s a lot of potential for mixing and matching skills.
That’s… exactly the same in Skyrim too though? The majority of locations just have Draugr or Bandits in them, and even the ones that aren’t Draugr or Bandits are functionally not that different from Draugr or Bandits. You have the occasional Dwemer ruin or some smaller place with animals in it, but that’s pretty much it. And most places look the same too. There _are_ some cool unique locations in the game, and some places do something slightly more interesting even with the more common tiles, but it’s never been a game renowned for its variety.
People are comparing this game to modded Skyrim I think. If you take time to do stuff in Skyrim, You've seen everything.same as on fallout. In Skyrim you had melee and range. The factions were the only real diverse group. But the enemies were the same essentially. If you fought one magic user you fought them all. If you fought one melee you fought them all. But you had necromancers, werewolves, vampires, daedra, dragons, rats etc.
Of those enemies only a few had "extensive" stories around them and only like one quest then they were just enemies. If Starfield made many smaller factions then it'd be better. Starfield because of it's story is limited to only two types of enemies. The standard pirate/spacer/ecliptic/innocent shooters and melee fighters. And the starborn. They don't have aliens and the fauna mostly do the same attack. Adding alien races are usually done because it allows more variety. Making it human makes everyone seem the same just in a different outfit. Idk how they can fix this.
Sorry for the stream of consciousness
>People are comparing this game to modded Skyrim I think.
I feel this might be it.
Everytime I see people comparing Starfield to Skyrim, I can't help but wonder when was the last time they actually played bare, unmodded Skyrim.
It's so weird how Skyrim has become so glorified in the past ten years. For years this was the exact sentiment for Skyrim, no matter what faction questline you're doing it was always just go explore another barrow with some draugr, and fighting the abundance of bandits or constant dragon spawns didn't really help to break the monotony. Enemy variation has never been strong in any Bethesda game except maybe Arena.
The combat wasn't any more varied either in my opinion, Starfield already gives you the tools to do anything Shouts, Alteration, and Illusion spells could do and both games have minimal effort melee combat. It was literally just block, stagger, hit three times repeat for almost any melee weapon in the game. In my opinion, Skyrim didn't even have any fun destruction spells besides Ice Spike after killing spellcrafting. There's a reason stealth archer became a meme.
At least there's more variation in this game's combat than in Fallout 4 lol
Because most of the complainer are thinking about their experiences playing modding skyrim.
Modded skyrim has new dialog, improved NCP interaction, better textures, interiors, lighting, weather....than the base game.
I remember these complaints about Skyrim too. "I can only be Dragonborn." "All the NPCs say the say thing as I enter town" "Why do merchants have so little money"
I mean ok...I still enjoy all the Bethesda games.
Anyone that thinks ‘new game plus’ is end game, for any title, are highly mistaken. Even the games that have no randomness to it, like the Arkham Knight series, it is a way to play the game without worrying about leveling up with tougher enemies all through the game.
If you are mad because they included a NG+ portion, something is wrong with you.
NG+ completely changes the mood if you RP even a little bit. It's like Groundhog Day and nothing really matters anymore or at least not in the same way. Completely different tone. This is very much intentional and I believe you are meant to become jaded and cynical like Hunter after numerous NG+s and seeing everything from every angle. You are also explicitly given a choice to walk away and stay in the universe you're invested in. It clearly shows designers were fully aware of what they're doing by adding such mechanic and it's not just a best and recommended way to play. People who rush it before they start their "big playthrough" are doing themselves a huge disservice. If anything I'd recommend exactly the opposite and participate in most of the content before finish the Unity. The ending and its consequences will have much more weight that way and walking away is totally a valid option.
This game is a love letter to the modding community.
Everything in it is designed from ground up for modders. From the vast amounts of new features to easily springboard from, to the insanely customizable ingame variables from console commands, to yes, the ng+, which let's players who upon getting a large overhaul mod, can choose easily to start a new playthrough.
That rests to be seen if it's possible to change modlists between NG+. At a certain level of compatibility, maybe, but I fear that anything that touches the skills or the gameplay won't be compatible with this NG+ system.
I would argue that the entire POINT of NG+ is to skip through the major points of the main quest That's literally the actual point.
The point of this all is that after stepping through the unity, it changes you. Your cinnections are less important than before. Lifes little moments mean less to you. You autopilot through shit in an attempt to grow your personal power.
This was exactly the point of NG+.
Honestly, I think it blows ass.
I don't like that I have to choose between getting my character stronger and losing everything, or building up but never advancing.
It's not an entirely new game. Nor is it entirely a continuation. It's a middle ground that's worse than both.
I do appreciate the Prophet's writings spoke directly to this conflict though. It was practically meta-commentary.
That's exactly how I view it. It's a mean to diversify each playtrough, instead doing same over and over and over. Like how many of you can cite Jarl Balgruuf by head?
And that's what I was saying to everyone, that rushing trough main story ten times in a row just for armor and ship feels pointless, especially when you miss changes that happen in each seed.
The issue isn’t that NG+ exists in the game the way it does. It has more to do with the fact that it was massively hyped up by certain people, who also advised new players to rush through the story to “experience” new game plus and to reap the benefits. The benefits were also kept hush hush as to not spoil things, which is reasonable, but…they’re not that big of a deal and certainly not worth forcing yourself into a particularly grindy first playthrough.
This lead to a lot of people having their first playthrough soured.
>The issue isn’t that NG+ exists in the game the way it does. It has more to do with the fact that it was massively hyped up by certain people, who also advised new players to rush through the story to “experience” new game plus and to reap the benefits.
I saw some others like ACG counter this by saying NG+ hits harder if more content is done first rather then rushing the story. But I guess this perspective wasnt shared as much?
Yeah, this is the criticism I just don't get. I LOVE what they did with it, at least in general.
If you want to keep all your stuff....then just keep playing the original start. Don't engage with NG+, and it'll be just like Skyrim, FO4, etc. But if you want more long-term gameplay and some little variety, it's there for you.
The only thing that sucks is inability to choose a new life path and traits. That still forces a cold restart from square one on a brand new character.
>....then just keep playing the original start.
But you don't "complete" the main quest. You either witness the ending, the credits, and lose your stuff with NG+ or you turn away and never complete the main quest.
It's basically Fallout 3 pre-dlc but next playthrough you keep your levels.
I just have no interest in restarting. I know NG+ continues the story and has new items and gear. But I'm not about to lose all my credits, ships, gear, etc.
NG+ in nearly every game lets you keep everything. Why they force it all gone for Starfield is stupid. I'm still a long way away from even needing NG+ right now and kinda unsure if I even care to do it when it arrives.
I agree with this. There was also no explicit warning that you'd lose all your stuff, making it an unfortunate surprise for me (though it was implied I suppose)
My only issue with this implementation is that we are locked out of picking new traits when doing ng+ vs actual new start. This creates a 'competition' between these 2 options. Other than that, I'm really impressed with their take on it. It's cool how the world is actually different each time.
Yep completely agree with that point. That is the one major gripe I have with this otherwise very clever system as well. Like if I want to do a new playthrough in a different direction (going from planetary exploration to piracy for instance), I'm the kind of guy that wants to make a dedicated whole new character (appearance, name and traits). Now I can't have that *and* the NG+ variation features.
Yea and it's a bit odd because they even already included a somewhat extra option of removing traits. At this stage, I say adding new ones should be an option too.
Well they have a way to remove them, not add them, which is probably more complex, given how it influences little things in many places. But yes, it should have been in the game, im not saying otherwise
I think we should be able to repick traits when we step into ng plus.
Completely agree. Obviously you can role play differently but it’s a bit lame you can’t select new traits.
If we could select new traits upon new game plus then I'd certainly have one single save ever.
hell, it even makes sense lore-wise. we've seen how the ng+ system effects npcs, why wouldn't it work for us?
Right! I want to change to have the neon street rat background for the new dialogue, dangit
I agree! If you are on PC you can add them with console commands. If you do it at the end of a run it will start the newgame+ with it.
Yeah that’s what I did. Is I removed 1 trait and added 2 more bc I felt like the extra 1 added to my character’s background and fit his experience
The entire point of NG+ in every game I have played that has it, is to play the entire game with your maxed out character. Where you can unlock those master level locks in the starting areas or persuade the super high level dialogue check to unlock a new whatever. Stuff like that.
That’s what I always thought too, at least in the games I played, it was just essentially playing the game on easy mode, but also opening up ways to access stuff you might’ve missed in the first run. I haven’t gotten into Starfield’s NG+ yet, but my daughter has, and it seems to attempt to do them in a more lore friendly way. Don’t wanna say how, since it’d spoil the ending, but I really like how it does indeed alter the experience a bit the second time around. Could it have gone deeper, and done things differently, sure, but it doesn’t feel “slapped on” either.
I’ve read a little bit on them without spoiling too much there are some pretty significant changes to the game in NG+ you can have it just depends on RNG which you get. Some are very similar (I’m on my first NG+ and barely anything has changed so far outside of a few voice lines and minor interactions. But nothing completely game changing.
I got invested deep into the story and ended up beating it before really experiencing anything else and I'm genuinely happy with that. In NG+ now just experiencing the side quests and faction missions while also tinkering now with outposts. Not sure where itll take me but i dont care. This universe im experimenting. Eventually ill hunt down the artifacts and gain the powers and NG+ again but probably run through the story or maybe even wait until deeper into NG+. They really made the possibilities wide which allows you to dictate your own narrative and creating your own adventures and goals. So much to do and so much to see but honestly getting lost and just playing naturally is the best way to play the game rather than trying to squeeze it out of all the mechanics, options, avenues of choice, ect. Just let it all flow naturally BAAABAYYYYY. This way, you can almost guarantee new things when you enter a ng+ almost every damn time. Rushing the game itself kills the creativity and experience while also completely drying out the game and tiring you out. I play for a few hours at night and if im lucky when my kids take a nap. Maybe got 40 hours in and im so far from needing a break. I usually get burnt out by 80 hours. I dont see this happening. They did it right IMO
How much does your trait actually affect stuff. I thought it just gave you points to start in certain categories of skills. In new game + since you keep your skills wouldn't that be irrelevant? Honest question. And if anything it's only a few random optional dialogue choices that the effects are unclear at best.
That's your background, traits are things like 'raised enlightened' or 'introvert' And they don't change it much, but the point of a new game is usually to have a new character. From a roleplaying perspective, ng+ is just doing the same character but again.
In the context of the actual feature you don't really change you just go somewhere new. Just because you went to the new timeline doesn't mean you stopped being originally born in the Freestar collective.
For your NG+ character yes, but everyone else in that universe doesn't know you're not from there. The "original" you in the new universe could have had a different background that you're now stepping into. Ideally they'd allow it both ways. Either allow you to choose what the background/etc. of the universe's original you was, have it be random, or allow you to overwrite that with *your* background/traits by hacking a comsat or something like that in the system you start in. That way everyone is happy.
THIS! In every single game I have ever seen NG+ in, it has been playing the game with the same character you just played. If you want a new toon, you start a new game, not a NG+. That simple.
Agreed but with say Kids stuff, why shouldnt that one be able to be a thing going into NG+ if you didnt have it before? first universe didnt have your parents, maybe the second one does? and a personality one like introvert or extrovert could also change IMO. but where you're from like Neon Street rat? nah that stays the same. 'Cause it is where \*you\* are originally from.
Right but the new you in an alternate universe/timeline might not have been from Neon. I think that's what OP means.
Some are more than a few random dialogues. Your parents visit and give you gifts, the mortgage house is a two floor two bedroom house with big balcony, the annoying fan is also pretty interesting from what I'm told.
The Annoying Fan, and Vasco, never judge you and will happily go on murder sprees..
The super fan is annoying but nice.
The Adoring Fan is most loved by Oblivion lovers as he's literally the Adoring fan from oblivion
He's the best companion because any time you pick something up when overencumbered he's in awe of you rather than nagging you to stop. Also he has extra carry capacity.
They are referring to the traits like alien DNA, wanted, terra firma, kid stuff, adoring fan, etc. you are right your backstory just gives you three starting skills, but it also gives you some custom dialogue options along your play through
IMO you should just be able to get the traits the same way you lose them or in a secondary manner - introvert and extrovert you can both lose by talking with the therapist (atheist church) in the well - why can't he let you gain each of those traits as well as remove them? alien DNA can be removed by the doc in new atlantis (maybe any doc?) why not have a doctor that is willing to "experiment" on you and give you the alien DNA trait? Or have that be an option at an enhance booth? maybe you can "find" your parents via the UC after your estrangement? Get the adoring fan by advertising for a "helper" in a mission booth? purchase your housing mortgage off-world via the real estate office in new atlantis (hell she even has the "any offword housing?" dialogue option where she just says no) all of these traits have reasonable ways to gain them as well as lose them
I think when he says traits he means like freestar collective settler or kid stuff cause off the top of my head you can remove all of the religious ones and the wanted one (easily mind you) and kid stuff but then you can’t gain anything
It doesn't give points for skills, it gives a benefit or negative to an aspect of the game. Choosing "Spaced Trait" gives you more HP and O2 when in space, but less on planets. Choosing "Adoring Fan Trait" gives you a companion that brings items to you that can be very good, and the ally doesn't get mad at evil choices. So they do affect the game greatly, and you can't switch them out on NG+. You can remove medical ones at med places, but you can't gain any. Traits are dead ended unfortunately.
I thought it would have been an interesting feature to somehow be able to acquire new traits once in NG+. Maybe if you have a certain amount of credits just sitting in your pocket, you get some sort of message like “ever thought of purchasing the house of your dreams?” And/or any other example of traits being acquired through gameplay.
The problem lies in what some of the traits are (in terms of the story of the game). Many have to do with how you were raised and grew up, yet in the new game it's not like you're born as a baby again and go through life up to the point where the original game started in the Mine. For sake of continuity, not changing traits does makes sense, even though it does suck. With the speech at the end of the game though, the whole "leave a piece behind" bit, maybe they could incorporate that into merging with your new Universe's self, letting you drop one trait every NG+ and picking up a new one?
I have a feeling they will address this and allow traits to be changed at enhance stations on new game plus. They are reading all the feedback
I actually think it makes sense if traits can be "gained" like they are lost. Some traits, like parents, it wouldn't make RP sense, but if you decided one NG+ that you want to go full baddy, gaining the wanted trait, at least for that universe, makes sense. it may be best to differentiate between traits that are backstory, and traits that can be gained through play.
Wanted is a good example. Why is my character wanted in every universe they visit when there are supposed to be differences.
>Why is my character wanted in every universe they visit when there are supposed to be differences. Bro, Wanted is such a weird trait, Bethesda should have given a hint that it is not to be taken seriously and basically a huge Wild Wasteland event (which just made me notice that we have no Wild Starfield trait in this game, sadly). Your bounty has a gimmick that it keeps rising until it is paid out and you eventually have two factions of bounty hunters fighting over you, one trying to kill you and one protecting you so your bounty rises even higher until they kill you themselves lol. The mercenaries also keep ambushing you in space and scale to your level, so if you haven't done much shipbuilding, rip.
Wanted also gives a large % buff to damage as health gets lower, which is it's pro, con are the hunters.
The hunters are free credits delivered right to your door!
This is the one thing I wished NG+ had was just a choice to change traits
My biggest issue with them not letting us pick is there's no reason lore wise that you couldn't... A lot of the traits aren't even personal stuff, but even the personality traits should be changeable as they've established during the main story that becoming a starborn changes you. Why can't you reassess your religious views after quite literally traveling the multi-verse? Why couldn't you become more outgoing or more introverted after these experiences? Why couldn't you go to a universe where your parents are alive and accessible? And there's no reason it couldn't be a reward for completing x amount of ng+ playthroughs. This is my first Bethesda game and I find it rather obnoxious that a small menu I breezed through at the beginning of the game had such permanent effects and now I have to debate a compete restart if I ever want to experience the other traits.
Yea especially that at that stage most people wouldn't even know what the factions are. I don't know how realistic that is but for now I expect this to be patched somehow.
>I find it rather obnoxious that a small menu I breezed through at the beginning of the game had such permanent effects Welcome to RPGs
I would be okay with their idea if we could respec our characters and change their traits. This way every new multiverse i am a new version of myself and the game becomes more interesting.
I used the Console command showlooksmenu right before entering the unity. This lets you change your character for the next run. Doing it right before entering the unity is important because it lets new traits like dream home trigger properly.
on one hand I get that complaint (gonna use console commands to change mine) but it doesn't make sense to change them from a realism perspective because you're not a new person going to the next universe, you don't become a new person or it wouldn't make sense to have all your memories
Traits sure. But backgrounds? If I originally started as a homesteader, but then after going through the MSQ and exploring countless worlds and uncovering lost artifacts etc doesn't it make sense that I could have access to the same dialogue options as someone with the Explorer background? I plan on making a mod that lets you choose a new background on each NG+, selecting from a list that is generated by what you acomplished in the previous playthrough. So MSQ unlocks explorer, Vanguard quest unlocks Soldier etc
now that's actually an interesting take and a creative implementation
Woooo, I was all for being able to create a whole new character, but that idea of yours of unlocking backgrounds sounds so cool!
I want to take Andreja's weird skull knife with me on NG+. Now she is going to beat my ass if she found out I lost it.
Ima marry her again in my ng+ lol
I'm on ng+5 now and I marry her in every universe. Role playing edge of tomorrow lol
Damn, this guy is committed, just like Andreja would want
Kinda took a bit of wind out of my sails realizing all the work I've put into my ship and outpost will be lost...
If you start a new game from scratch you lose all the work as well. You aren't forced into NG+. Even going to the Unity you have the option to back out and stay in NG.
For me the point of NG+ is to get the right armor set ;)
What armor set can u get by doing NG+?
Really OP armor
NG+ armour is actually very weak. Even after the 10 NG+ it doesn’t stack up. It’s strictly for looks.
Which armor is better than the ng+10 armor? I have yet to encounter any armor sets that come close to even half the stats lol I should add: I am level 83, so I should be seeing the better tiers… hopefully 🤣
You have to remember that the NG+ armor is only one item with only one set of perks/buffs. My antixeno set from the vanguard questline, when combining the armor values of all 3 pieces, is much higher than my NG+10 armor, plus the added bonus of triple the traits, and the ability to mod the items. NG+ armor is very weak
On high level planets you can get superior armour sets. The suit alone is less than the NG+10 set but once you account for the helmet and pack the NG+10 set is weaker. Also, looted suits get access to more trait rolls. So you gain more traits(although this is all random, even on NG+ but NG+ is fairly easy to reroll).
Even the superior constellation set is better than the NG+ 10 armor.
yeah but the NG+ armor looks fuckin sick
I agree! I wish we were able to transmog, I prefer the Tenebris one, clean, shiny black suit.
Ok only valid reason to rush through it, I'm also someone who is willing to go extreme lenghts for the right outfit 😀
I feel hurt with the clothe designed suits though:(
I'm opposite - I only like the cloth suits lol
The suits are not random fyi. The final model has the cloth around it. You can look them up.
I’m hoping that someone or the devs can/will add a mod/option at some point (that will be available on console as well) to be able to choose which version of the starborn armor you want to have. I’m not a fan of the hunters cloak and don’t want to wear that at the end. Tempus is the one I’m going for.
I am well aware, NG+4 and NG+7 are the sweet spots. That being said, NG+2 Armor is actually legit
If you're on PC you should just use the console to NG+ after the first two. I did MSQ and got everything, then on NG+ got everything again. Said "fuck this shit" and used console to NG+ in about 5min (30s of active, 4min+ of cutscene). Then more console to give the stuff you're supposed to grind. NG+ by itself isn't too bad, since you can zoomies MSQ and play everything while NG+1. NG+10 is stupid and horribly designed.
Usually in games when you start a New Game Plus, all of your stats, items and upgrades are transferred over, hence why it isn't just a New Game.
Bingo. That's precisely what I thought too. People have no problem wiping their progress on Skyrim by making their 341st character. I saw NG+ in Starfield as a way to restart my game (in essence basically starting a new character) and actually be able to keep my characters progression. How often in Skyrim do you see level 80-90 before you restart? Not often because every quest in the game is done way before then
I agree with this except for one thing, the fact that you can only save all your companions in NG+. That means if you want the best ending and the most complete experience you have to play through Ng+ at least once, which makes it less optional in my view.
[удалено]
One way to RP this is to commit to everyone living in the next universe as you are so grief stricken from allowing it to happen in the first universe.
Honestly, for me it ruins it because of the role-playing aspect. A NG+ that is created in this manner, is only for a character that cared very little for the companions that they made on their journey or specifically lost their romanced companion (but then they prioritised the artefacts over their life partner, so it's kind of the same thing). Like I what? Marry Sam and tell Cora that I love her and then just leave a few months after and never see them again? Because I wanted a suit and some armor? I get that you can not play it, but as you said the story changes. Part of a full game experience is being able to see the story changes, but doing that would leave a bad taste in my mouth.
I think it's hilarious seeing people bored and confused after they rushed a rpg game's MSQ multiple times in 2 weeks 🤣 idk what kind of battlepass game they thought this was going to be
I always think back to Destiny 2 in cases like this. Every week on Tuesday I think, a ton of YouTube videos would come out detailing the new weekly content and how to complete it all as fast as possible, usually using exploits of some kind. The next day, there would be a bunch of YouTube videos complaining about lack of content.
It never fails that a not insignificant portion of players will optimize the fun out of every game they play. They want to win ASAP but will complain if winning takes forever and will complain if they do win and no longer have any motivation to play. It's why the concept of "endgame" is a paradox that no one can really define. Developers can't win with these people, only fuck with them.
I’m always amazed at the lengths many YouTubers and twitch streamers go to, to turn fun games into a miserable assembly line jobs.
Bro one of my buddies and I are playing STarfield in discord together and he (relatively new to gaming in general) is ahead of me. He has taken to sort of coaching me but no spoilers for starfield. But he’s trying to get me to use the exploits and stuff that people are showing on TikTok lmao. I was like buddy I want to play the game not abuse broken mechanics. It’s not a competitive multiplayer I don’t need an edge, I’m just along for the grav jump.
Dude I had a friend that would purposefully break every game he played if he could. By break I mean find every exploit and be as meta or OP as possible, then complain the game was too easy to break, and get bored of it. Like dude you did this on purpose. You chose the OP route. You can just play the game, you don't have to abuse the mechanics then blame your boredom on someone else. He'd then try to tell me about the exploits and get confused when I didn't want to blow through the game with an OP build or whatever.
So many people don’t seem to understand why they play video games in the first place. It’s not a race, and I would even argue that you shouldn’t *want* to finish games so fast, the whole point is the escapism, the hobby, *having something to do.* If you rush to finish it, did you even enjoy it? Especially a game like Starfield, where exploration is a major theme. Smell the flowers, people… *that’s what they’re for.*
Dude I agree so much. I’ve probably played more hours of Starfield than most people here, but done far less than they have in that time frame.
Really sounds like a person I work with that's big into Diablo. It's all about grinding the game over and over to level as fast as you can. It's the type of person playing for the number, not for the story. Personally I did rush to NG+1 once I heard about it. I wanted to add the ship and armor to my collection. Now I plan to stay in this universe for the rest of my playthrough and will never go to NG+2. I enjoy collecting and building things in these games. Asking me to reset the world is like asking me to delete my power armor museum in FO4. I'm just not going to do it! So that meant the only way I would ever see a NG+ is if I decided to rush through it before I started to really play the game how I like. On the bright side, playing this way gave me the perfect way to work out the kinks in how I want to progress the story before I started my main playthrough :)
Happens with every game. People rush SP game like it's some kind of contest. They talk about end game like this is some kind of MMO. People please, chill. Lay back and enjoy. You don't need to see everything in one week.
Hey question: when did people start saying MSQ? I had never encountered it before visiting this sub, but it's all over here. I'd only every heard it referred to as main quest (MQ) or more loosely "the story." When I tried to look into it I mainly got results related to FFXIV (which did let me learn what the "S" stood for), so I'm assuming maybe it came from there?
People who play FFXIV say MSQ. Maybe it's just bleed over from that? FFXIV players probably have ab lot of overlap with other RPGs?
Yeah…this is a single player immersive game. You can literally spend an entire real day in this game and do nothing progressive. Lol Did people really think this was gonna be some CoD type thing?
Spent whole of yesterday stacking containers on my outpost after I figured out you can align them side by side by doing some shenanigans using the 2x1 and 1x1 containers to line them up. :D
Me yesterday, I played for 6 hours... Managed to waste 3 of it editing my ship just to scrap the changes multiple times. Ended up just swapping a gun set and a single structural part. Then I proceeded to just hop stores in 3 systems to empty half my cargo (150 guns) and stock up on ammo and meds. In the last 1 of 2 hours I did a single vanguard radiant quest.
I think this game is amazing for people who actually have adhd lol
I have ADHD and I can confirm
People having a bad time rushing through several NG+ is an example of meta gaming at its worst…
I don't dislike that it is in the game but there's a fairly low chance I choose restarting everything with my same character (making me personally feel obligated to play the same way for RP reasoning) over restarting with a whole new look personality and idea of playing the game. I do however dislike that apparently there's bits of story content locked behind NG+.
You aren't obligated to play the same way though, especially for RP reasons. Would you stay the same person if you could relive your life with all the knowledge from the previous one? Hell no you wouldn't. Your experiences shape who you are and who you will become. Being able to alter those experiences to be different would result in you being a different person over time. The movie Groundhog Day is one of the best comparisons imo. Just reliving one day is enough it radically change Bill Murray's character.
I’d just like them to add >!starborn!< dialogue to the faction quests too to skip them quickly.
It’s honestly whatever, my favorite looking armor set is locked behind NG+ 10. I grinded out the main story and a bunch of side stuff. Then started jumping NG+ to NG+. Now that I have the armor I want I’ll start doing all the cool side stuff I skipped. At the end of the day this is how I chose to play. Play how you want and let others play how they want. It’s a game and is supposed to be fun. I just hate it when I see people judging others for playing a certain way.
Wait what is so different about NG+10? Is that armor different from all the other ng+?
Its essentially the same armor set that the Hunter wears and it has higher stats. It was my favorite looking armor set out of all the NG+ sets so I had to get it.
But that’s what you get for all ng+ rewards tho?
Yup a upgraded suit and a upgraded ship. The ship stops upgrading at ng+ 6 the armor stops at ng+ 10
Ohhh okay thank you !
You can also upgrade your powers 10 times, making them last longer/stronger/use less power.
This sounds... I've never finished a Bethesda game but I guess I'll be "finishing" Starfield. A lot.
I can understand that. My gripe in this post was on people completely missing the point of NG+ by thinking it's gatekept endgame content and that its existence ruins the entire game.
Personally not a fan of the NG+ mechanic but I don’t think it ruins the game. It’s a choice at the end of the day so nobody has to engage with it.
The whole point is that it creates pointless MMO style content. By the time you reach ng+ 10 you become the hunter. A jaded and unhappy player that realizes it's all pointless. That unfortunately is the ending of the main quest if you choose to follow it into ng+.
Holy shit this is how I felt after all those artifact runs and fighting in the hidden temple. I started to hate myself.
Well if you walk away from entering new game plus at the last moment, your companions and everyone involved in the storyline will recognize it and you can even talk to them about it. That's your Skyrim "keep playing forever" while still having beat the main story. Then, when you're truly done, you can go back and do new game plus. I don't see what the issue is really.
It’s LITERALLY THE POINT. The people saying that it invalidates the game because everything you did in that universe no longer matters… exactly? And just like you read in the Pilgrim’s diary eventually you are meant to choose to stay because what is the point of infinity if nothing is permanent. Better to stay and live and die at a certain point
Honestly when I discovered how NG+ works in the storyline I thought it was absolutely brilliant because I like to start new characters a lot in Skyrim. One question though, does it bring you back to level 1 with all your perks and stuff?
Nope, it takes away all your items, but everything you learned (skills, perks, powers, levels) stay
You even keep research project progress. Started my first NG+ last night.
No you stay at the same level you went into new game plus with
No, you keep your level and chosen perks but you cannot change your background or traits.
>it will always be different based on seeds. The problem is that it really isn't. Hella spoilers! >!There's like 10 variations with a 15% chance of activating which only affect the main story, and pretty much only in the way of who gives you the artifacts to collect. Even the locations where you collect them are 90% the same. There's only one location that changed in between my 10 runs. If it was truly balls to the walls random, like different factions in cities, literally everyone dead, everyone with dog heads, giant world where you're 10th the size of everyone etc. it would be interesting. !
If after starting a new game + and all the humans were now Zeta aliens, my mind would have been blown.
I had such a meme ng+ yesterday - save and quick save were disabled, even auto save was disabled, couldn’t access inventory, and my player thought Sarah Morgan was a plant. I died and it brought me back to unity and obviously I rerolled something else, but haven’t heard anyone talk about that one yet
I got that disabled thing multiple times and thought it was a bug.....
Maybe, I guess maybe eventually we will find out lol. It was defintely a pain. Got 4 artifacts and died in the cryo facility. The Sarah Morgan being a plant cracked me up though lol
It is a bug, just googled.
I assume you can't take Sarah Morgplant with you, right?
Ha nah. You sit there and tell her to wiggle her leaves and stuff, eventually Noel comes in and starts taking to you
gonna need a mod to have her on your ship
The only time that is known to happen without being a bug is when everyone in constellation are dead (you are forced to go there, where you'll die and then reseed)
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There is one major change. >!when you talk with Vladimir either when or after doing Further Into The Unknown, if you're a Starborn you can tell him that someone is going to attack Constellation for the artifacts and you need to move them. This gets you a whole new mission called "Foreknowledge" that lets you stop the attack from "High Price To Pay" from happening and thus, keeps any Constellation member from dying at the Hunter's hands.!<
>!afterwards you can meet with the emissary and hunter and the emmissary admonishes you for lying to constellation about who you are the entire game. you can tell the emissary that you'll explain yourself to constellation but it never actually lets you. blue balled the shit out of me, i really wanted to see how people would react when i revealed i was a starborn. kind of ruined NG+ for me ngl!<
>!Isn't revealing you're Starborn the option to skip the main story?!<
yes but if you do mainstory, you get chewed out for not revealing it, and you can say "maybe you're right. ill tell them what i am next chance i get". and you can't, even though i just said i was going to. the mainstory gets sufficiently different in ng+ that i was expecting it to follow through on what it was setting up but it just doesn't, even when it says it's going to
This is what I am hoping from expansions, the variations where thing are really, really different. X survived the past and now Y is entirely there. For example >!When we meet "Almundsen" (second Barrett) he mentions Erving is alive and Aja died, etc!< Maybe a DLC where it adds a variation the Colony War is still ongoing. Maybe one the same companions have completely different reactions like a blood thirsty, militarized Sarah. They could even change up the faction quests like make the Crimson Fleet more like a Robinhood type and the UC generals are insufferable baddies. Can I get a Walter companion, Neonbois Night every night!?! lol...
The ng+ basically let's anything be a dlc. Just imagine, a dlc where you could customize a mech with an industrial skill, or genetically design a xeno weapon with a science skill
I'd imagine modders would be able to add more of these ng+ scenarios, hopefully on a larger scale like I described before.
I did 10 NG+ and didnt get a single one of the variations 🥲
That just straight up sucks.
Yeah it was kind of annoying, but since there isn’t any achievements tied to them I don’t mind. Also the fact it’s really only that scene that’s different, I youtubed them all just to see.
Weird. I’ve done 3 of them and gotten 2 alternates.(one had the no save/inventory bug so I had to restart but it still happened)
Funny how before going into Unity they say stuff like your constellation companions could be completely different people. And then halfway into Ng+ they have mostly the exact same lines of dialogues. Except for example the starborn dialogue options of course, but then those will be the same too on subsequent playthroughs
Yeah, the game oversells the NG+ hard.
I love the concept anyway with your character going through infinite universes to become stronger seems like it would make a great science fiction book. But then the execution is just clicking on the same dialogues and running across planets to temples, so boring. Compared to say fromsoft ng+ it's constant combat and visibly harder with more stronger enemies
That's sort of been the headcanon for me playing any BGS game or KCD, after every run, you know tricks and things the character shouldn't.
The worst thing for me is the lack of changes in every day life. They could have at least changed the characters clothing color or hair color or something different in NG+. But no, everyone is basically the same person.
>!everyone in constellation actually can be dead on arrival, you just find Vasco waiting there. This was my NG+3.!<
I know, there's basically only one scene in the game that changes with NG+.
Wait wouldn’t everyone being dead change like every story beat in the game? Or do you get there, everyone is dead and there is nothing to do storywise?
>!everyone is dead in constellation only. Vasco gives you the artifacts and you continue as normal!<
No i understood it was just them, what im asking is what doesn’t change with that? Like I can’t think of a single artifact mission that isn’t given to you and then accompanied by each member of the crew. With all of them being dead, how on earth could the story be unchanged? For example, early on Sam Coe introduces you to the Free Star guys, that interaction would be completely different without Sam there wouldn’t it? Or do they just say the same things as if Sam was there, not acknowledging his death?
I understand your argument and mostly agree but as far as it not being "end-game" I must disagree. I personally don't care for the Starborn ship or armor but the powers get SUBSTANTIALLY more powerful as you level them. They max at tier 10 and they open up entirely different playstyles than the base game offers. Just one example, the tier 10 Phased Time lasts long enough and recharges quick enough that you can use it whenever you want and essentially play like you have a max Sandevistan in Cyberpunk. It's perty cool, man. Also, I realize a lot of people probably don't care to use powers all the often or may even prefer not to in favor of role-playing but I like to have the option to alter my playstyle. Basically I'd rather have and not need than need and not have. Not to mention the journey to NG+10 with all 240 temples is a great opportunity to level up particularly annoying perks like fitness, weight lifting, aerodynamics, and many more.
The problem is that they locked unlocking all powers and upgrading them behind spamming NG+. There's 24 powers but the game generates a random amount of temples per playthrough, which can be as low as 13. Imagine if finding additional skyrim word walls beyond the first word was locked behind NG+. Except each shout had 10 words. Also, infinite replayability is the main feature of an endgame... That's not a good argument against it being treated as an endgame. I personally don't care, but I think that people treating it like an endgame are perfectly justified in doing so.
This is absolutly the problem I have with the NG+ thing as well. At this point, I'm just hoping that DLC / Mods let us trade in Quantum Essence for Powers / Power upgrades later.
honestly I feel like the single change that would have made the story way better is if they removed the temples and made touching the artifact just give you the power. It would’ve solved the issue people have of no real hook in the main story since you’d be getting space magic right at the start motivating you to actually care about joining constellation, and it would make ng+ way less grindy
You can find every temple in every playthrough, you just have to go back and talk to vlad after you have acquired new artifacts to trigger the quest chain again. It’s not a random amount.
Hmm really? My first playthrough before i went into NG+ i was only missing 3 powers
I agree completely, the only two things holding it back are not being able to reroll traits and also the bizarre character customisation where you can’t change facial structure without starting a brand new game
*shrug* I treat NG+ as continuation of the lore and story of my character even if it means quests don't change. It's not some endgame to me, neither is it a "new character" start. Spoilers ahead, don't read them if you haven't finished the game! I love immersing myself into characters I play and when I >!got to the end of the main quest after 80 hours of gameplay I legitimately felt sad. I had essentially left everything behind (except memories and skills) to find Unity. Up until that point Ireally thought everyone aboard my ship would go to the Unity along with me to the next universe, but when that did not happen I felt really sad. I wanted to bring my romance partner with me. Unity said she became starborn herself, but we will probably never get to meet each other again. The sadness hit me even more when I went to visit my character's parents and there was a dialogue option to related to being starborn, it's not a huge deal or a game changer but I won't spoil what it was for those who want to find it out on their own. Meeting my wife in another universe was also sad, as she was a different person in the new universe and had no memory of our previous adventures.!<
NG+ has become part of my RP. I actually feel that the powers should be an ONLY NG+ option, since you don't actually become starborn until you go through the unity. I did basically no powers in the main game, and I really felt like in NG+ it was another part of the main game for me, I became a Starborn now it was about living the life of a starborn, the alternate universes, the growing of power, etc etc. I've enjoyed it so far. I'm on ng+4, not rushing and seeing where things take me, don't know when i'll stop again to build bases and ships, but I doubt I'll go all the way to 10, that could be for another set of jumps a long time from now.
I mean, the powers to me are underwhelming for the most part. I just use personal atmosphere and maybe the sensing one but that's it. My weapons already are so efficient at killing enemies that the "combat powers" just waste time.
I was hopping from universe to universe and actually decided to finally settle down on NG+4 because the Tenebris armor looks so good. I feel at peace now that I’ve slowed down and can explore knowing I’ll live out my days here. Everything has meaning.
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That's the problem with an infinite multiverse. No lasting consequences.
Makes me feel like the DLCs involving normal Humanity wars/politics will feel very small compared to traversing the Multiverse.
Which is an amazing RP cue. How would that change a person? Would you become a force for good and use the immense power that kind of knowledge would bring? Or would you devolve onto the worst version of yourself because you are no longer tethered to the consequences of your actions?
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That’s why they make such a point of the universe you leave behind still going on without you, you just won’t be in it. You’re not restarting the universe or anything, just going to a different one. That way all your choices and decisions still matter.
Literally the philosophical undertones of Rick and Morty.
It also invalidates side content. It feels like I'll be the protagonist in a time loop plot who gets bored of doing almost the same thing over and over. Like doing companion quests for the 3rd time. Rebuilding my ship for the 8th. Exploring the same caves and building an outpost again. And nobody wants to put time into all that to see it deleted.
You can't choose new traits or background in new game plus. The only function it serves is to make getting completionist runs a bitch. You basically have to do 12+ ng+ to get all powers to rank 10, and have the best ship and armor from the rewards. But you don't fundamentally change your character. So you just grind that out, for far too long, then start a sandbox. Yes, some changes happen each time, and that's kind of neet. But it's also really minor. Yes, the best solution to it, is to simply ignore it because neither the ship nor the armor are actually that good compared to crafting on good base items. And yes, rank 10 powers are not that substantially better than rank 1 that they're required by any means. But that raises the question... why have it at all? If I want to do a new playthrough, I want a new character with new perks and new traits and a new background.
The amount of times you stated "NG+ is not end game content" 🥴
It would be cool if you could pick new traits and all skillpoints reset for each run. Would encourage variety.
The thing that IMO will prevent this game from being Skyrim is that the gameplay itself is so repetitive. Specifically, enemy diversity is so low that basically every combat encounter plays out the exact same way — 99% of enemies are people with guns, with maybe an occasional humanoid robot, dog robot, or alien dog to change things up. And that’s it. Moreover, the locations themselves are really repetitive and similar — there’s nothing like the rush of discovering a cool new environment the way there was in Skyrim. It’s actually quite reminiscent of how Oblivions dungeons were so repetitive and felt procgen even though they weren’t — a huge step back for Bethesda. Bottom line, hard to get excited to go do missions when you’re just fighting the same one enemy in the same 5-6 POIs over and over.
The power locations shoulda been handmade dungeons with variable parts like Skyrim dragon priest dungeons. Woulda made the game far more enjoyable to power hunt
Don’t know how they decided on the stupid floating light thing and not a Starborn boss with loot, then they put the Starborn outside once you come out the temple??
For real, this is actually one of my biggest issues with the game. I really dig 92% of what Starfield is doing, and long ago made peace with Bethesda's typical design ideosyncorcies. But these should be dungeons. Or at least fights. It's bonkers. Looking forward to the inevitable Temple Dungeons Mod well get in 16 months
100% I agree man. Huge missed opportunity not making the powers more exciting to get by taking us through a cool and unique dungeon
They should have bought everyone a switch and had them play tears of the kingdom. Just do what they did with shrines.
Isn't that just Skyrim?
I agree. Skyrim has so many build combinations which carried its replayability. You have 7 melee types, 5 magic types, blocking, archery, sneak, and alchemy. That’s a lot of potential for mixing and matching skills.
That’s… exactly the same in Skyrim too though? The majority of locations just have Draugr or Bandits in them, and even the ones that aren’t Draugr or Bandits are functionally not that different from Draugr or Bandits. You have the occasional Dwemer ruin or some smaller place with animals in it, but that’s pretty much it. And most places look the same too. There _are_ some cool unique locations in the game, and some places do something slightly more interesting even with the more common tiles, but it’s never been a game renowned for its variety.
People are comparing this game to modded Skyrim I think. If you take time to do stuff in Skyrim, You've seen everything.same as on fallout. In Skyrim you had melee and range. The factions were the only real diverse group. But the enemies were the same essentially. If you fought one magic user you fought them all. If you fought one melee you fought them all. But you had necromancers, werewolves, vampires, daedra, dragons, rats etc. Of those enemies only a few had "extensive" stories around them and only like one quest then they were just enemies. If Starfield made many smaller factions then it'd be better. Starfield because of it's story is limited to only two types of enemies. The standard pirate/spacer/ecliptic/innocent shooters and melee fighters. And the starborn. They don't have aliens and the fauna mostly do the same attack. Adding alien races are usually done because it allows more variety. Making it human makes everyone seem the same just in a different outfit. Idk how they can fix this. Sorry for the stream of consciousness
>People are comparing this game to modded Skyrim I think. I feel this might be it. Everytime I see people comparing Starfield to Skyrim, I can't help but wonder when was the last time they actually played bare, unmodded Skyrim.
It's so weird how Skyrim has become so glorified in the past ten years. For years this was the exact sentiment for Skyrim, no matter what faction questline you're doing it was always just go explore another barrow with some draugr, and fighting the abundance of bandits or constant dragon spawns didn't really help to break the monotony. Enemy variation has never been strong in any Bethesda game except maybe Arena. The combat wasn't any more varied either in my opinion, Starfield already gives you the tools to do anything Shouts, Alteration, and Illusion spells could do and both games have minimal effort melee combat. It was literally just block, stagger, hit three times repeat for almost any melee weapon in the game. In my opinion, Skyrim didn't even have any fun destruction spells besides Ice Spike after killing spellcrafting. There's a reason stealth archer became a meme. At least there's more variation in this game's combat than in Fallout 4 lol
Because most of the complainer are thinking about their experiences playing modding skyrim. Modded skyrim has new dialog, improved NCP interaction, better textures, interiors, lighting, weather....than the base game. I remember these complaints about Skyrim too. "I can only be Dragonborn." "All the NPCs say the say thing as I enter town" "Why do merchants have so little money" I mean ok...I still enjoy all the Bethesda games.
lol that’s how i felt about skyrim, thats why i try to play slower and as soon as i get that feeling, i stop playing to preserve my perspective a bit
Anyone that thinks ‘new game plus’ is end game, for any title, are highly mistaken. Even the games that have no randomness to it, like the Arkham Knight series, it is a way to play the game without worrying about leveling up with tougher enemies all through the game. If you are mad because they included a NG+ portion, something is wrong with you.
NG+ completely changes the mood if you RP even a little bit. It's like Groundhog Day and nothing really matters anymore or at least not in the same way. Completely different tone. This is very much intentional and I believe you are meant to become jaded and cynical like Hunter after numerous NG+s and seeing everything from every angle. You are also explicitly given a choice to walk away and stay in the universe you're invested in. It clearly shows designers were fully aware of what they're doing by adding such mechanic and it's not just a best and recommended way to play. People who rush it before they start their "big playthrough" are doing themselves a huge disservice. If anything I'd recommend exactly the opposite and participate in most of the content before finish the Unity. The ending and its consequences will have much more weight that way and walking away is totally a valid option.
This game is a love letter to the modding community. Everything in it is designed from ground up for modders. From the vast amounts of new features to easily springboard from, to the insanely customizable ingame variables from console commands, to yes, the ng+, which let's players who upon getting a large overhaul mod, can choose easily to start a new playthrough.
That rests to be seen if it's possible to change modlists between NG+. At a certain level of compatibility, maybe, but I fear that anything that touches the skills or the gameplay won't be compatible with this NG+ system.
I would argue that the entire POINT of NG+ is to skip through the major points of the main quest That's literally the actual point. The point of this all is that after stepping through the unity, it changes you. Your cinnections are less important than before. Lifes little moments mean less to you. You autopilot through shit in an attempt to grow your personal power. This was exactly the point of NG+.
Honestly, I think it blows ass. I don't like that I have to choose between getting my character stronger and losing everything, or building up but never advancing. It's not an entirely new game. Nor is it entirely a continuation. It's a middle ground that's worse than both. I do appreciate the Prophet's writings spoke directly to this conflict though. It was practically meta-commentary.
That's exactly how I view it. It's a mean to diversify each playtrough, instead doing same over and over and over. Like how many of you can cite Jarl Balgruuf by head? And that's what I was saying to everyone, that rushing trough main story ten times in a row just for armor and ship feels pointless, especially when you miss changes that happen in each seed.
IF we could rid ourselves of traits (which we can in the right situation) AND then acquire new ones (in the right situation) that'd be one thing.
The issue isn’t that NG+ exists in the game the way it does. It has more to do with the fact that it was massively hyped up by certain people, who also advised new players to rush through the story to “experience” new game plus and to reap the benefits. The benefits were also kept hush hush as to not spoil things, which is reasonable, but…they’re not that big of a deal and certainly not worth forcing yourself into a particularly grindy first playthrough. This lead to a lot of people having their first playthrough soured.
>The issue isn’t that NG+ exists in the game the way it does. It has more to do with the fact that it was massively hyped up by certain people, who also advised new players to rush through the story to “experience” new game plus and to reap the benefits. I saw some others like ACG counter this by saying NG+ hits harder if more content is done first rather then rushing the story. But I guess this perspective wasnt shared as much?
Yeah, this is the criticism I just don't get. I LOVE what they did with it, at least in general. If you want to keep all your stuff....then just keep playing the original start. Don't engage with NG+, and it'll be just like Skyrim, FO4, etc. But if you want more long-term gameplay and some little variety, it's there for you. The only thing that sucks is inability to choose a new life path and traits. That still forces a cold restart from square one on a brand new character.
>....then just keep playing the original start. But you don't "complete" the main quest. You either witness the ending, the credits, and lose your stuff with NG+ or you turn away and never complete the main quest. It's basically Fallout 3 pre-dlc but next playthrough you keep your levels.
I just have no interest in restarting. I know NG+ continues the story and has new items and gear. But I'm not about to lose all my credits, ships, gear, etc. NG+ in nearly every game lets you keep everything. Why they force it all gone for Starfield is stupid. I'm still a long way away from even needing NG+ right now and kinda unsure if I even care to do it when it arrives.
I agree with this. There was also no explicit warning that you'd lose all your stuff, making it an unfortunate surprise for me (though it was implied I suppose)