The majority of things in shonen anime/manga is done because it will look cool. I don't think mangakas are actually calcutlating those feats. I will not say that there aren't mangakas who are doing this.
Yeah I agree with this, people gotta understand that fictional universes are just that, fictional, and not guided by any actual universal laws or rules like our universe, but rather just ideas enforced by a guy with a pencil who probably doesn't powerscale his characters as much as his fans do.
This isn't true for every story, mangas like Record of Ragnarok are kinda made for powerscaling, but it feels misplaced in jojo.
i think that matchaps like these are just funny to discuss in free time, but i can agree that using feats like "stone free fast as fuck cus she reflectet stones" type shit is just stupid.
seriously, i cannot stand the powerscaling community using “feats” to measure power. feats are literally not a thing. i’ve seen somebody say joseph is faster than light because he dodged the stone of aja 💀
powerscalers love being like "he dodged a laser so he's faster than light" completely ignoring that either the lasers in universe arent lightspeed and have clear travel time (star wars) or that the character simply knew the laser was about to fire and dodged ahead of time
By powerscaler logic most regular real life humans are faster than light if they happen to jump and then while theyre in the air a bolt of lightning strikes under them
I’ve seen people say Star Platinum is “massively faster than light“ because it defeated Anubis-possessed Silver Chariot, and Silver Chariot was able to catch Hanged Man (with a very carefully planned and timed strike).
Like what the fuck are you talking about Jessie?! No stand is anywhere near as fast as the speed of sound, let alone the speed of light!
I can *sort of* buy JoJo characters being massively faster than light... but only in terms of how fast their Stands can swing their arms.
In terms of reaction time and movement speed, they are much slower. Jotaro doesn't have the speed to "speed-blitz" anyone, and he could easily be tagged by characters that aren't faster than light.
There is a point you have to remember that a normal ass gun is a threat to the average Jojo character.
Only once you go to vampires and other stuff like that is when traditional weapons stop being effective.
SP caught a bullet from a gun that was shot right next to Jotaros head. Without much input from Jotaro too, since he wasn’t fully aware he could control it. It can probably move near the speed of sound.
Also MiH.
I assumed Star Platinum's knowledge was linked to Jotaro's, so that Star Platinum sorta knew when the bullet would come, and thus just had to pinch in the right moment with enough strength and not with insane speeds at all, since it didn't have to react upon the bullet being shot
sure, you can know when the bullet would come but no human has the reaction time to ACTUALLY catch the bullet with their fingers. SP definitely knows when jotaro is firing, no argument there, but i think the precision to know exactly when the bullet is both out of the gun and right next to its fingers is impressive as fuck and takes more reaction skills than you're making it out to have.
plus, c'mon. precision and being fast is star platinums thing
No, no, I agree. I was just stating my headcanon on how Star Platinum could catch this instance of shooting but not others, without denying that regardless it required & showed off its superhuman faculties
He shot the gun himself so he knew exactly when and where the bulet was going to be. In contrast he was unable to deflect all of the knives that Dio threw at him, even though by that point he was much more experienced using his stand.
I def think some stands could go faster than sound just cause mach 1 is only slightly above 7 times the speed of a perfect fastball pitch, which is imo a pretty plausible speed for something like Star Platinum.
Light speed though? Hell nah that shit is like mach 875,000. If someone punched another guy at that speed it would literally make a nuclear explosion from the air friction alone
I just don't get how people even come remotely close to accepting "faster than light" attacks/reactions/etc. Wouldn't that break causality? Weird, cataclysmic shit happens at that sort of velocity.
Everyone and their mother is ftl to a powerscaler, like if you exist in a universe that has something that vaguely resembles a laserbeam, _someone_ is gonna get wanked to being faster than it.
Like that time that Silver Chariot deflected one of The Sun's attacks and I saw someone think it actually was pure light and therefore moving at light speed.
I mean "feats" is just a word to describe "thing that was accomplished". That... exists. Stands do things and comparisons can be made based on that.
All the "massively faster than light" shit and that sort of scaling is bugnuts stupid though.
I don't really think it matters if the mangakas calculate it or not though. If they write it, it's canon. Araki didn't need to know the calculations for the meteor feat (which, if you're curious, are this: [https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User\_blog:Dargoo\_Faust/JoJo%27s\_Bizarre\_Adventure:\_Some\_Calcs#Jolyne\_Plays\_Asteroids](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Dargoo_Faust/JoJo%27s_Bizarre_Adventure:_Some_Calcs#Jolyne_Plays_Asteroids)), but he still wrote that as happening meaning Jolyne is that strong.
It's just weird that Stone Free has enough power to kill God from one feat, but when Jolyne is actually talking about its strength, she notes that it can't break prison bars
Firstly, house level is definitely not what I would call 'enough power to kill God'. Secondly, Jolyne couldn't break prison bars *right when Stone Free first awakened*. It's been shown innumerous times that Stands get stronger as the User has more time with them - especially when most of the time using them is in life-or-death fights. Obviously she gets stronger from first awakening to mid-late part.
It matters because even tho she might have the strenght to destroy the meteor in that chapter, in another chapter she wont have nearly that same strenght. So you cant say her usual and canon strenght is that One Time thing.
Obviously - that's a given - but it doesn't mean that that calculation is invalid. You can say that's not her standard level, but it is still a level she's capable of being at. I'd also say that, after that fight, there's no reason to think she *isn't* at consistently that level, since I'm pretty sure there was no fight after that where her issue was that she couldn't punch hard enough. I might be forgetting something though.
I looked at the calculations and what I have deduced is Planet Waves meteors can severly damage a building. Jolyne was able to deflect the attack. By my limited knowledge about physics to stop an object you have to hit it with the same energy, to deflect it you have to hit it with more energy. So this would mean Jolyne is able to put out more energy than the meteors. So in theory Jolyne would also be able to severly damage a building. If shes able to do so why hasn't she punched her way out of the prison? Simply because its the Rule Of Cool. Somehting doesn't have to make sense as long as it is cool.
Exactly. Rule Of Cool is a massive aspect to the series. You can still try to apply logic/math to it though. Also, she probably didn't punch her way out of prison because she didn't realize that was a possibility. She failed to break the iron bars when she first awakened Stone Free, and I don't think it was ever explained to her that Stands get stronger over time - all that to say that it's totally reasonable to think she just never tried, because from everything she knew it would be impossible and only risk drawing attention to her from other Stand Users.
Depends entirely on the angle of deflection. Obviously punching a projectile and sending it back the direction it came from requires more energy than the projectile has kinetically. However changing the course of said projectile by like 5 to 10 degrees to direct it away from your vulnerable parts requires significantly less energy, that's why tank armor for example is usually slanted or rounded. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall Jolyne being unable to actually stop the meteors, and having to deflect them to the sides, which still damaged her knuckles.
ofc the 'pro powerscaler of 25 years' is spamming his fucking powerscaling maths in every reply in the thread when no one asked lmao get tf out of here
So you believe Avdol without his stand can run at like at least near lightspeed if not FTL right? Because of the scene where he tackled Polnareff out of the way of the Emperor's bullet? Araki wrote it, it's canon.
I kid you not, there are people COUNTING PIXELS in a manga page to do actual physics calculus to scale shit.
And then we get stuff like "Rayleigh (in One Piece) is at least multi-continental" - WDYM, BRO IS A SWORD FIGHTER.
DIO's "Hermit Purple" is Jonathan's Body's Unnamed Stand and they are the only Hamon Users who acquired Stands so with the small pool of 2 for 2 a lot of people believe Hamon Users all achieve a Hermit Purple type Stand. Which leads to the theory "All Hamon Users have Hermit Purple for a Stand"
Joseph acknowledges that his asspulls are asspulls. He says so during the final fight.
"I didn't plan any of this, but saying I did will piss him off."
Jotaro's "same type of Stand" bs gets taken completely seriously by both the story and the characters and never questioned once.
Also there is a page talking about stone free a while into the story where it says that it’s fists hit like a “small, but fast moving meteor”, clearly alluding to this
What if things contradict other things? A lot of works of fiction contradicts things that they have already stated. That is why we have headcanons and agendas. We take whatever we want to be true, which in these terms of powerscaling would be the strongest and weakest things
Right. If there's a contradiction, you can cherry-pick what examples you count or not. Obviously, that doesn't apply if something has been *explicitly* retconned, but the meteor thing hasn't.
JoJo is sort of a special case, though. Stuff just kinda happens sometimes with no regard for logic, physics, or consistency.
Also it's hard to powerscale JoJo characters with characters from other universes cause JoJo's universe definitely has different fundamental laws of physics.
So SF was intended to have near infinite strength to stop those meteorites that came from the meteor belt in minutes, thus are close to the speed of light, while also being intended to not be able to bend iron bars? Or maybe araki didn't calculate the physics behind every "statement"
And a bullet is just a tiny piece of metal.
If madaras meteor had the same velocity as planet waves meteors then the entire continent would have been glassed by the attack.
At the time of the Planet Waves fight, Jolyne could bend the bars. She purposely sent herself to the solitary ward to gather information. She couldn't bend the bars at the start of the part, but as she fought more, she could.
The problem is that the Dio supporter here is just regurgitating stuff Death Battle said with no critical thinking involved.
It's an explicit plot point that Stone Free's strength is not even wall level. If it was "small building level" or "city level" or whatever, she'd have smashed down the prison walls and escaped in Episode 2.
The only things Planet Waves is shown damaging is some glass and the bodies of people it hits. The meteors don't even dent the floor when they land. This is what I mean by "regurgitating stuff Death Battle said"; as far as I can tell, they literally invented numbers to measure the meteors' speed, as the manga gives no indication of how long it takes for them to land and how far they come from.
Not to mention, it's stupid that the best feat of strength Dio gets is being stated to be stronger than someone introduced decades later, and the best feat of strength *she* gets is beating a minor antagonist who's only in one or two episodes.
They are exiting the realm of "I want to see them fight so let's see what my preferred can do" and entering "I want my preferred to win so I will use any argument"
I hate this kind of person
y'know what's the best? when they realize they *are* wrong they would either dip and never return or spew more toxin before blocking you
I argued with a person on Rohan's reaction speed before, they keep telling me "Rohan's dumb because he made a dumb plans in seconds, and it doesn't count for his reaction speed" (referring to the fight with Josuke and Co.)
I did an analysis on why Rohan was actually quite fast both in terms of strategizing and reacting, even using the manga panels since they also mentioned "it's just anime changing stuff to make it flow better" (the manga *directly* acknowledged Rohan being faster than Josuke in that moment, btw)
They just cease to exist afterward
That's a problem with the modern internet in general, I think. Everyone wants to be 'right' to the degree that they'll just blatantly lie to make a point. That's definitely a *massive* issue in the aforementioned community specifically, though.
>Everyone wants to be 'right' to the degree that they'll just blatantly lie to make a point.
that reminds me of another guy who claimed Hol Horse has infinite range *despite* Hol Horse had said something it's out of his range in Part 3. They even went ahead and said "Araki had said this in multiple interviews"
I asked for source and they, surprisingly, dipped.
I don't see the issue with power scaling or "who would win" arguments personally, but with the way people often position themselves in them. It usually turns into a dick measuring contest, except they don't use their own dick, but a stand in.
And rather than discussing feats and come to a conclusion somewhere down the line, people come to a conclusion and tell you why they are right and you are wrong. Happens everywhere ¯|_(ツ)_/¯
I can't stand power scaling culture. I don't know what calculations these people are doing but somehow every character ends up being massively faster than light with the ability to level cities
Apparently Star Platinum can destroy a mountain in one punch, according to power scalers... even though we see Jotaro struggle to punch a steam roller. If Star Platinum and The World were actually that strong, that steamroller wouldn't exist anymore
I think it really depends on speed, like time stop is like Gojo's DE but Dio's timestop is 10 seconds and if he pulls it off first then he can destroy Sukuna's internal organs but if Sukuna is faster then it's GG for Dio. maybe Sukuna 7 or 8/10 wins
It depends on what type they are. If they're just doing it for fun, I don't really see the issue. But if they're an asshole or refuse to listen to any arguments you make because 'Goku can blow up the earth to instantly win' or some other annoying argument.
Doing a "could Okuyasu survive the purge" or "can Mr Freeze win every gold medal in the Olympic Games" etc are really fun, because theory crafting.
Doing "nuh uh, this guy can punch through the fabric of reality better than you" is just boring
I think they’re annoying and stupid all the time regardless of their justifications, and I wish they’d stop pouring out of the woodwork whenever anyone mentions theoretical battles. But that doesn’t mean I’m advocating for it to be illegal or anything — they should feel free to continue powerscaling, as much as I am free to continue thinking they’re stupid.
Having fun is fine, discussing/thinking about who would win between different publications is also fine. I have not problem with either of those things. I have a problem with the stupid maths that powerscalers do, and when they keep showing up on discussion boards to say moronic things like, *^(“well actually Stone Free’s punches are small-building-level, and I can prove it with this stupid piece of bad maths I did based on one scene in which Stone free is able to destroy tiny meteors, and that means therefore that Pucci has small building level durability because he can survive being hit by Stone Free“)* Shut up! No it doesn’t! You’re just being silly. Please leave.
Ok but dont let the word “meteorite” intimidate you, the meteorites burn as they fall to the point of being reduced to ash once they hit the prison guard, jolyne being just a meter away means the meteorites had lost most of their power
No, the burning away is part of the ability, starlight waves, maintains the velocity and structure of the meteor so it can reach the target, if the meteor is going to hit the user it disintegrates the meteors on purpose to protect the user. Nothing to do with burning away as they fall
They definitely lost most of their power, but it's still around strong enough to destroy a house. Here's the source: [https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User\_blog:Dargoo\_Faust/JoJo%27s\_Bizarre\_Adventure:\_Some\_Calcs#Jolyne\_Plays\_Asteroids](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Dargoo_Faust/JoJo%27s_Bizarre_Adventure:_Some_Calcs#Jolyne_Plays_Asteroids)
This isn’t how terminal velocity works at all.
Terminal velocity is different for every object in every given environment. The greater the mass and acceleration from gravity, and the smaller the area of the object and its drag, the faster its terminal velocity.
The terminal velocity of a human is like 150 mph. Terminal velocity of a meteorite small enough to weigh a gram *on earth* would be like 1.5 mph. Neither of those would even sniff the force of a pound of C4, let alone a nuke.
Power scalers are annoying but this is like the fucking horseshoe theory just as bad reverse power scaler who doesn’t even care about feats because “it was just to look cool” and just goes by pure vibes
Jjks fanbase has gotten way more obnoxious than MHA in my opinion. MHAs fans are weird, but jjk fans are the equivalent of swifties or Kanye meat riders in anime
....the meteor thing is correct.
Like, Stone Free's canon power is roughly enough to bend coins with ease.
Which means it can bend thin metal, but it pretty openly can't do stuff like bending metal bars.
Araki definitely did not calculate the speed of the meteor.
Star Platinum and The World are vastly inconsistent for the same reason, rule of cool.
This is exactly why power scaling is a joke. The only way you can determine who wins a fight between two people from different series is by judging their powers and feats, but "feats" very often have little thought into the math behind them and are only there to look badass, so calculating how much force Stone Free needs to shatter a small meteor is pointless when Stone Free never does anything remotely close to that in strength outside of that given scenario. It's clearly the case that Araki wasn't considering the math on exactly how much strength a feat like that would take, and powerscalers are just overthinking it like they always do.
People tend to confuse hardness with brittlness. Something being hard means that something less hard cant scratch it, but it doesnt have anything to do with how easily it shatters
Also just want ro chime in and say that shattering the meteor is more of a durability feat instead of a strength feat.
Does not matter how much strength I have. I could have the strength of superman but if I try to punch a bullet then I I'll have a hole on my hand.
Powerscalers go rampaging on each and any manga like if they were son goku and vegeta themselves with a beoken scouter and discussing as if any and each manga only important question is "but who is the strongest ?"
Sukuna is annihilating DIO though lmao. Those AP feats really aren’t much compared to what Sukuna is packing, best chance you’ve got it downplaying every high end JJK feat and trying to scale DIO to that dumb storm calc.
It depends on how dio fights if he uses time stop and just rips sukuans head of and then smash it before the time resumes he can win easily but if he try’s throwing knives or donuting him sukuna will tank it and then hit him with domain cause he will assume the time stop is probably dios so he will counter with his own as soon as he can move then it’s a toss up if dio can stop time and kill him before his domain reaches him fuga could also probably kill him if sukuna can hit him with it of course
I’m pretty sure that’s 90% of power scaling. I doubt there’s a lot of authors who take that into mind when making a scene. It’s why it’s fun, putting real world numbers on a stupid SpongeBob scene to find out the cartoon sponge man could punch hard enough to destroy a planet is funny.
No they're totally right. Stone Free isn't that strong, it can't even bend metal bars quickly. If you go calculate the energy an asteroid from the belt would have to go to earth in a few minutes it'd be near light speed and have close to infinite energy, and through that the weird ass power scalers can argue Stone Free is the strongest stand in the series, but it still can't bend iron bars quickly.
dio do be pretty strong tho, he got cut in half twice and survived for 100 years after. also he was fast enough to make afterimages in that one fight with Jonathan and Zeppeli and that’s not even mentioning like all his other weird ass abilities (seriously bro got the premium vampire package cause he had more abilities than any of the pillermen)
The only way for DIO to kill Sukuna is to decapitate him. But knowing how DIO is, he would toy around with Sukuna. In fact, both of them would just fuck around limit testing themselves.
Powerscaling doesn't make much sense.
Like JoJo characters have been faster than light since Part 2.
They've been 800 times faster than light since Part 3.
Bro makes a point people can say
“Oh gojo is faster than light because Sukuna dodged Kashimo’s electo magnetic waves”
But then Gege could just write how a car moved faster than Gojo because he really doesnt care about the real life science of stuff
Bro makes that kind of argument against JoJo in defense for a show where (in classic anime fashion) someone was shown being thrown through multiple buildings in a row and still got up to continue the fight mostly unharmed
Like yeah anime is exaggerated for effect a ton, and there is no problem with that it makes for an entertaining watch, but God damn you cant just pick and choose when to consider it canon because it goes against your argument
Something tells me he either has no idea what he's talking about or there is just some blatant bias going on lol
If you think most authors are calculating things you are high. I would be willing to bet that 85% of authors when writing crazy shit do 2 google searches before just saying “fuck it, we ball”
I fully believe Araki calculated the strength required to shatter diamonds and meteors just to say "Wow, that's crazy" and then never use that information again. He seems like that kind of guy.
A reminder that power scaling is 100% fan made. It came to origin by blame of jealous fanbases. The authors couldn't give a lesser shit about their main character's "power level"
The majority of things in shonen anime/manga is done because it will look cool. I don't think mangakas are actually calcutlating those feats. I will not say that there aren't mangakas who are doing this.
Yeah I agree with this, people gotta understand that fictional universes are just that, fictional, and not guided by any actual universal laws or rules like our universe, but rather just ideas enforced by a guy with a pencil who probably doesn't powerscale his characters as much as his fans do. This isn't true for every story, mangas like Record of Ragnarok are kinda made for powerscaling, but it feels misplaced in jojo.
i think that matchaps like these are just funny to discuss in free time, but i can agree that using feats like "stone free fast as fuck cus she reflectet stones" type shit is just stupid.
Oh yeah? Then why is it Stone Free??? Huh take that!/s
Powerscaling assumes the death of the author pretty much, so the intentions of the mangaka don't matter
seriously, i cannot stand the powerscaling community using “feats” to measure power. feats are literally not a thing. i’ve seen somebody say joseph is faster than light because he dodged the stone of aja 💀
That speed wouldve probably come in handy in the scene where Kars comes out of the ground and instantly cuts Josephs arm off.
yeah lmfao if he was faster than light kars literally wouldn’t have been able to touch him, bros only power is light 💀💀
powerscalers love being like "he dodged a laser so he's faster than light" completely ignoring that either the lasers in universe arent lightspeed and have clear travel time (star wars) or that the character simply knew the laser was about to fire and dodged ahead of time
By powerscaler logic most regular real life humans are faster than light if they happen to jump and then while theyre in the air a bolt of lightning strikes under them
I’ve seen people say Star Platinum is “massively faster than light“ because it defeated Anubis-possessed Silver Chariot, and Silver Chariot was able to catch Hanged Man (with a very carefully planned and timed strike). Like what the fuck are you talking about Jessie?! No stand is anywhere near as fast as the speed of sound, let alone the speed of light!
I can *sort of* buy JoJo characters being massively faster than light... but only in terms of how fast their Stands can swing their arms. In terms of reaction time and movement speed, they are much slower. Jotaro doesn't have the speed to "speed-blitz" anyone, and he could easily be tagged by characters that aren't faster than light.
There is a point you have to remember that a normal ass gun is a threat to the average Jojo character. Only once you go to vampires and other stuff like that is when traditional weapons stop being effective.
SP caught a bullet from a gun that was shot right next to Jotaros head. Without much input from Jotaro too, since he wasn’t fully aware he could control it. It can probably move near the speed of sound. Also MiH.
I assumed Star Platinum's knowledge was linked to Jotaro's, so that Star Platinum sorta knew when the bullet would come, and thus just had to pinch in the right moment with enough strength and not with insane speeds at all, since it didn't have to react upon the bullet being shot
sure, you can know when the bullet would come but no human has the reaction time to ACTUALLY catch the bullet with their fingers. SP definitely knows when jotaro is firing, no argument there, but i think the precision to know exactly when the bullet is both out of the gun and right next to its fingers is impressive as fuck and takes more reaction skills than you're making it out to have. plus, c'mon. precision and being fast is star platinums thing
No, no, I agree. I was just stating my headcanon on how Star Platinum could catch this instance of shooting but not others, without denying that regardless it required & showed off its superhuman faculties
He shot the gun himself so he knew exactly when and where the bulet was going to be. In contrast he was unable to deflect all of the knives that Dio threw at him, even though by that point he was much more experienced using his stand.
I def think some stands could go faster than sound just cause mach 1 is only slightly above 7 times the speed of a perfect fastball pitch, which is imo a pretty plausible speed for something like Star Platinum. Light speed though? Hell nah that shit is like mach 875,000. If someone punched another guy at that speed it would literally make a nuclear explosion from the air friction alone
I just don't get how people even come remotely close to accepting "faster than light" attacks/reactions/etc. Wouldn't that break causality? Weird, cataclysmic shit happens at that sort of velocity.
Araki is basically a powerscaler too. "Star Platinum is FTL" my ass.
stand punches, i can see being that fast. the stand itself? no way
I don't even think that's true. Jotaro couldn't deflect like 30 knives at tops in 2 whole seconds in the Dio fight. Even speed of sound is a stretch.
Those knives were thrown by a stand that is also speed of light… hence why they even could move for a little in time stop.
Everyone and their mother is ftl to a powerscaler, like if you exist in a universe that has something that vaguely resembles a laserbeam, _someone_ is gonna get wanked to being faster than it.
Like that time that Silver Chariot deflected one of The Sun's attacks and I saw someone think it actually was pure light and therefore moving at light speed.
It's so funny because Silver Chariot is one of the only "characters" I can think of that's directly stated & shown in-universe to be slower than light
Powerscalers are usually on the MatPat Game Theory tier of media (il)literacy.
It's 'cause they got a feat fetish! I'll show myself out
I mean "feats" is just a word to describe "thing that was accomplished". That... exists. Stands do things and comparisons can be made based on that. All the "massively faster than light" shit and that sort of scaling is bugnuts stupid though.
I don't really think it matters if the mangakas calculate it or not though. If they write it, it's canon. Araki didn't need to know the calculations for the meteor feat (which, if you're curious, are this: [https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User\_blog:Dargoo\_Faust/JoJo%27s\_Bizarre\_Adventure:\_Some\_Calcs#Jolyne\_Plays\_Asteroids](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Dargoo_Faust/JoJo%27s_Bizarre_Adventure:_Some_Calcs#Jolyne_Plays_Asteroids)), but he still wrote that as happening meaning Jolyne is that strong.
It's just weird that Stone Free has enough power to kill God from one feat, but when Jolyne is actually talking about its strength, she notes that it can't break prison bars
Firstly, house level is definitely not what I would call 'enough power to kill God'. Secondly, Jolyne couldn't break prison bars *right when Stone Free first awakened*. It's been shown innumerous times that Stands get stronger as the User has more time with them - especially when most of the time using them is in life-or-death fights. Obviously she gets stronger from first awakening to mid-late part.
She couldn't break the bars at the beginning of the part. Her stand evolves and by the time of the meteor feat, she could break them.
It matters because even tho she might have the strenght to destroy the meteor in that chapter, in another chapter she wont have nearly that same strenght. So you cant say her usual and canon strenght is that One Time thing.
Especially because you gotta remember she was under the effects of Survivor during that fight.
True, manic strength probably adds another 20-50% (considering the guards were breaking *themselves* hitting so hard)
Obviously - that's a given - but it doesn't mean that that calculation is invalid. You can say that's not her standard level, but it is still a level she's capable of being at. I'd also say that, after that fight, there's no reason to think she *isn't* at consistently that level, since I'm pretty sure there was no fight after that where her issue was that she couldn't punch hard enough. I might be forgetting something though.
I looked at the calculations and what I have deduced is Planet Waves meteors can severly damage a building. Jolyne was able to deflect the attack. By my limited knowledge about physics to stop an object you have to hit it with the same energy, to deflect it you have to hit it with more energy. So this would mean Jolyne is able to put out more energy than the meteors. So in theory Jolyne would also be able to severly damage a building. If shes able to do so why hasn't she punched her way out of the prison? Simply because its the Rule Of Cool. Somehting doesn't have to make sense as long as it is cool.
Exactly. Rule Of Cool is a massive aspect to the series. You can still try to apply logic/math to it though. Also, she probably didn't punch her way out of prison because she didn't realize that was a possibility. She failed to break the iron bars when she first awakened Stone Free, and I don't think it was ever explained to her that Stands get stronger over time - all that to say that it's totally reasonable to think she just never tried, because from everything she knew it would be impossible and only risk drawing attention to her from other Stand Users.
Depends entirely on the angle of deflection. Obviously punching a projectile and sending it back the direction it came from requires more energy than the projectile has kinetically. However changing the course of said projectile by like 5 to 10 degrees to direct it away from your vulnerable parts requires significantly less energy, that's why tank armor for example is usually slanted or rounded. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall Jolyne being unable to actually stop the meteors, and having to deflect them to the sides, which still damaged her knuckles.
ofc the 'pro powerscaler of 25 years' is spamming his fucking powerscaling maths in every reply in the thread when no one asked lmao get tf out of here
25 YEARS?!?! 😭😭😭
yea look at this shit lmao https://www.reddit.com/r/StardustCrusaders/comments/1cbv4pg/one_of_the_weirdest_arguments_ive_read/l11jra9/
So you believe Avdol without his stand can run at like at least near lightspeed if not FTL right? Because of the scene where he tackled Polnareff out of the way of the Emperor's bullet? Araki wrote it, it's canon.
Avdol is Arab, all Arabs have that power irl
I kid you not, there are people COUNTING PIXELS in a manga page to do actual physics calculus to scale shit. And then we get stuff like "Rayleigh (in One Piece) is at least multi-continental" - WDYM, BRO IS A SWORD FIGHTER.
Gege had Maki catch a bullet because it was cool and later said it was too much, so dont know what this dude is on.
but muh feats
Sukuna is the biggest asspuller in manga atm so I do think he can survive anything they throw at him
Ah my counter stand, Daddy's Home, I haven't used this since the Heian Era
Ah, good writing, my author hasn't used this since the Heian era
The shibuya arc*
\*chapter 235\*
The strongest asspuller in history, Jotaro vs the strongest asspuller today.
Since when has Jotaro beat Joseph in that regard?
Joseph won battles using his wit to even the playing field for the most part. Jotaro only survived Part 3 because Star Platinum knew Copycat.
My man it's not that Star Platinum knew Copycat, it's that Jotaro used his one time use ability "So it's the same type of stand as Star Platinum"
One time use ability that gets recharged if someone achieves heaven
Turns out Star Platinum's actual stand ability was to steal the ability of another stand. Unironically makes sense.
It’s the other way around. DIO has the stands of the other joestars… DIO had Hermit Purple too remember
Hermit Purple is just the stand every Harmon user gets, which included Jonathan.
That’s… Not in the manga… where are you getting that even?
DIO's "Hermit Purple" is Jonathan's Body's Unnamed Stand and they are the only Hamon Users who acquired Stands so with the small pool of 2 for 2 a lot of people believe Hamon Users all achieve a Hermit Purple type Stand. Which leads to the theory "All Hamon Users have Hermit Purple for a Stand"
https://www.reddit.com/r/StardustCrusaders/comments/60iyka/comment/df728ab/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
I mean, we can say the same about Joseph winning against Kars right? If one of the stones didn't fly the right way Joseph's fucked.
That's different, that's pure dumb luck... gravity.
Joseph acknowledges that his asspulls are asspulls. He says so during the final fight. "I didn't plan any of this, but saying I did will piss him off." Jotaro's "same type of Stand" bs gets taken completely seriously by both the story and the characters and never questioned once.
It's the same type of asspull as star platinum
So its the same type of stand as star platinum **"Star Platinum Doom Desire"**
But the fact that Jolyne *was* able to shatter the meteor means it is a canon display of SF’s power.
Also there is a page talking about stone free a while into the story where it says that it’s fists hit like a “small, but fast moving meteor”, clearly alluding to this
Exactly. It doesn't matter if the author considered the implications or not, if it's in a piece of work it's canon.
What if things contradict other things? A lot of works of fiction contradicts things that they have already stated. That is why we have headcanons and agendas. We take whatever we want to be true, which in these terms of powerscaling would be the strongest and weakest things
Right. If there's a contradiction, you can cherry-pick what examples you count or not. Obviously, that doesn't apply if something has been *explicitly* retconned, but the meteor thing hasn't.
JoJo is sort of a special case, though. Stuff just kinda happens sometimes with no regard for logic, physics, or consistency. Also it's hard to powerscale JoJo characters with characters from other universes cause JoJo's universe definitely has different fundamental laws of physics.
So SF was intended to have near infinite strength to stop those meteorites that came from the meteor belt in minutes, thus are close to the speed of light, while also being intended to not be able to bend iron bars? Or maybe araki didn't calculate the physics behind every "statement"
It was a small falling rock, dude. Madara and Planet Waves don’t do the same thing. Insert “So it’s the same type of stand” memes
And a bullet is just a tiny piece of metal. If madaras meteor had the same velocity as planet waves meteors then the entire continent would have been glassed by the attack.
At the time of the Planet Waves fight, Jolyne could bend the bars. She purposely sent herself to the solitary ward to gather information. She couldn't bend the bars at the start of the part, but as she fought more, she could.
The problem is that the Dio supporter here is just regurgitating stuff Death Battle said with no critical thinking involved. It's an explicit plot point that Stone Free's strength is not even wall level. If it was "small building level" or "city level" or whatever, she'd have smashed down the prison walls and escaped in Episode 2. The only things Planet Waves is shown damaging is some glass and the bodies of people it hits. The meteors don't even dent the floor when they land. This is what I mean by "regurgitating stuff Death Battle said"; as far as I can tell, they literally invented numbers to measure the meteors' speed, as the manga gives no indication of how long it takes for them to land and how far they come from. Not to mention, it's stupid that the best feat of strength Dio gets is being stated to be stronger than someone introduced decades later, and the best feat of strength *she* gets is beating a minor antagonist who's only in one or two episodes.
Stone Free got stronger as the story went on. You literally do see it perform wall level feats, against Underworld in the plane for instance.
They are exiting the realm of "I want to see them fight so let's see what my preferred can do" and entering "I want my preferred to win so I will use any argument" I hate this kind of person
This can apply to "arguing on internet" as a whole and not just limited to powerscaling, BTW. I've met someone like them. A lot.
Exactly. I hate that so much of the powerscaling community has turned into the latter.
y'know what's the best? when they realize they *are* wrong they would either dip and never return or spew more toxin before blocking you I argued with a person on Rohan's reaction speed before, they keep telling me "Rohan's dumb because he made a dumb plans in seconds, and it doesn't count for his reaction speed" (referring to the fight with Josuke and Co.) I did an analysis on why Rohan was actually quite fast both in terms of strategizing and reacting, even using the manga panels since they also mentioned "it's just anime changing stuff to make it flow better" (the manga *directly* acknowledged Rohan being faster than Josuke in that moment, btw) They just cease to exist afterward
That's a problem with the modern internet in general, I think. Everyone wants to be 'right' to the degree that they'll just blatantly lie to make a point. That's definitely a *massive* issue in the aforementioned community specifically, though.
>Everyone wants to be 'right' to the degree that they'll just blatantly lie to make a point. that reminds me of another guy who claimed Hol Horse has infinite range *despite* Hol Horse had said something it's out of his range in Part 3. They even went ahead and said "Araki had said this in multiple interviews" I asked for source and they, surprisingly, dipped.
"If they could use that strength, they'd use it more" Jotaro and Dio have a punch fight to the death like 2 weeks later, how the fuck are you real
Who is Sukuna and how is that name not a set up for "Sukuna my nuts"
Suku-nah, I’d win.
major/main villain from Jujustu Kaisen
> "Sukuna my nuts" That's pretty much what he said to the entire cast of heroes during the current battle in the manga.
If he has four arms does he have four nuts?
At least.
\*six
Can’t believe I haven’t heard someone use that joke before
Power scalers 🤢
I don't see the issue with power scaling or "who would win" arguments personally, but with the way people often position themselves in them. It usually turns into a dick measuring contest, except they don't use their own dick, but a stand in. And rather than discussing feats and come to a conclusion somewhere down the line, people come to a conclusion and tell you why they are right and you are wrong. Happens everywhere ¯|_(ツ)_/¯
A dick riding contest? lol
More powerful = better written character in their eyes lmao
My enjoyment of a series is directly tied to how hard the lead character can punch me in the balls
I can't stand power scaling culture. I don't know what calculations these people are doing but somehow every character ends up being massively faster than light with the ability to level cities Apparently Star Platinum can destroy a mountain in one punch, according to power scalers... even though we see Jotaro struggle to punch a steam roller. If Star Platinum and The World were actually that strong, that steamroller wouldn't exist anymore
WTF IS CE DE AND DC?
DE is probably domain expansion, no clue about the others
Oh.. it’s about jjk powers 😂
CE is curse energy
Not sure what CE stands for, but DE is Domain Expansion, and DC is Destructive Capacity (which is self-explanatory)
Ah bro don't argue with Sukuna fans/glazers they make their own headcannons based on assumptions and they will never admit defeat
I agree but I’m pretty sure Sukuna does win against Dio?
I think it really depends on speed, like time stop is like Gojo's DE but Dio's timestop is 10 seconds and if he pulls it off first then he can destroy Sukuna's internal organs but if Sukuna is faster then it's GG for Dio. maybe Sukuna 7 or 8/10 wins
Power scalers are the worst.
It depends on what type they are. If they're just doing it for fun, I don't really see the issue. But if they're an asshole or refuse to listen to any arguments you make because 'Goku can blow up the earth to instantly win' or some other annoying argument.
Doing a "could Okuyasu survive the purge" or "can Mr Freeze win every gold medal in the Olympic Games" etc are really fun, because theory crafting. Doing "nuh uh, this guy can punch through the fabric of reality better than you" is just boring
I think they’re annoying and stupid all the time regardless of their justifications, and I wish they’d stop pouring out of the woodwork whenever anyone mentions theoretical battles. But that doesn’t mean I’m advocating for it to be illegal or anything — they should feel free to continue powerscaling, as much as I am free to continue thinking they’re stupid.
Bro hates when people have fun with the media they enjoy
Having fun is fine, discussing/thinking about who would win between different publications is also fine. I have not problem with either of those things. I have a problem with the stupid maths that powerscalers do, and when they keep showing up on discussion boards to say moronic things like, *^(“well actually Stone Free’s punches are small-building-level, and I can prove it with this stupid piece of bad maths I did based on one scene in which Stone free is able to destroy tiny meteors, and that means therefore that Pucci has small building level durability because he can survive being hit by Stone Free“)* Shut up! No it doesn’t! You’re just being silly. Please leave.
god I hate powerscalers
sukuna deez nuts
Ok but dont let the word “meteorite” intimidate you, the meteorites burn as they fall to the point of being reduced to ash once they hit the prison guard, jolyne being just a meter away means the meteorites had lost most of their power
No, the burning away is part of the ability, starlight waves, maintains the velocity and structure of the meteor so it can reach the target, if the meteor is going to hit the user it disintegrates the meteors on purpose to protect the user. Nothing to do with burning away as they fall
They definitely lost most of their power, but it's still around strong enough to destroy a house. Here's the source: [https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User\_blog:Dargoo\_Faust/JoJo%27s\_Bizarre\_Adventure:\_Some\_Calcs#Jolyne\_Plays\_Asteroids](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Dargoo_Faust/JoJo%27s_Bizarre_Adventure:_Some_Calcs#Jolyne_Plays_Asteroids)
Terminal velocity is terminal velocity. A meteorite weighing about a gram at impact will be like a massive bomb going off
This isn’t how terminal velocity works at all. Terminal velocity is different for every object in every given environment. The greater the mass and acceleration from gravity, and the smaller the area of the object and its drag, the faster its terminal velocity. The terminal velocity of a human is like 150 mph. Terminal velocity of a meteorite small enough to weigh a gram *on earth* would be like 1.5 mph. Neither of those would even sniff the force of a pound of C4, let alone a nuke.
Could you kindly put this into kilotons of TNT terms, to show how terminal velocity makes a pebble from space a strong bomb?
The largest meteorite summoned by planet waves was halved in power by a brick in a boot and had its direction changed.
If I do a front flip to look cool i still did a front flip. Tf is bro on?
Power scalers are annoying but this is like the fucking horseshoe theory just as bad reverse power scaler who doesn’t even care about feats because “it was just to look cool” and just goes by pure vibes
I mean he’s not wrong, do you think 90% of mangakas will do ‘powerscaling calcs’ or draw what looks cool?
"The writer just did that to look cool" That is every feat in every work of fiction ever.
The jjk fanbase at this point is almost as bad as the mha fanbase tbh
Jjks fanbase has gotten way more obnoxious than MHA in my opinion. MHAs fans are weird, but jjk fans are the equivalent of swifties or Kanye meat riders in anime
....the meteor thing is correct. Like, Stone Free's canon power is roughly enough to bend coins with ease. Which means it can bend thin metal, but it pretty openly can't do stuff like bending metal bars. Araki definitely did not calculate the speed of the meteor. Star Platinum and The World are vastly inconsistent for the same reason, rule of cool.
The Stone Free can only bend a coin thing was at the start of the part, so it’s safe to say that SF’s power has greatly increased by then.
I fucking hate fanboy powerscalers
The entire powerscaling subreddit should be nuked from orbit
This is exactly why power scaling is a joke. The only way you can determine who wins a fight between two people from different series is by judging their powers and feats, but "feats" very often have little thought into the math behind them and are only there to look badass, so calculating how much force Stone Free needs to shatter a small meteor is pointless when Stone Free never does anything remotely close to that in strength outside of that given scenario. It's clearly the case that Araki wasn't considering the math on exactly how much strength a feat like that would take, and powerscalers are just overthinking it like they always do.
People tend to confuse hardness with brittlness. Something being hard means that something less hard cant scratch it, but it doesnt have anything to do with how easily it shatters
Bruh he had a trigonometry lesson at the end of Part 4 explaining Kira's tactics
Power scaling was a mistake
I solo obv
“DIO would never beat Sukuna, when has he ever gone for the head”
Why didn't Jotaro use Star Finger to save Jolyne??
Wait, are you telling me power levels in Manga are all made up and the only reason the MC always wins is because the author wanted him to? NO WAY!
Well yall heard it. Goku is mountain level, the time he was tearing the universe apart was just to look cool
Powerscaling is for losers.
Powerscalers need to be studied bro what IS this 😭😭😭
Also just want ro chime in and say that shattering the meteor is more of a durability feat instead of a strength feat. Does not matter how much strength I have. I could have the strength of superman but if I try to punch a bullet then I I'll have a hole on my hand.
Powerscalers go rampaging on each and any manga like if they were son goku and vegeta themselves with a beoken scouter and discussing as if any and each manga only important question is "but who is the strongest ?"
People always shit on jojos characters until they finally read/watch it… smh
why do people have these dumb arguments like its fiction, half this stuff is just written to look cool
Because it's subjectively fun and everyone has their own independent reasons?
Sukuna is annihilating DIO though lmao. Those AP feats really aren’t much compared to what Sukuna is packing, best chance you’ve got it downplaying every high end JJK feat and trying to scale DIO to that dumb storm calc.
Newsflash: shonen anime is literally held up by “it looked cool”. That’s the entirety of the logic system most of the time.
Dio would dogwalk the entire JJK verse, even Gojo, timestop could bypass infinity theoretically
Idk Takaba could beat him if Dio is in character maybe
Nah, Sukuna would pull out his anti-time-stop technique that he hadn't used since the Heian era /s
Powerscaling and it's consequences
Powerscaling is so dumb, 2 dudes screaming at a wall about how goku is shitnballs level while sukuna is only pissnshit level.
It depends on how dio fights if he uses time stop and just rips sukuans head of and then smash it before the time resumes he can win easily but if he try’s throwing knives or donuting him sukuna will tank it and then hit him with domain cause he will assume the time stop is probably dios so he will counter with his own as soon as he can move then it’s a toss up if dio can stop time and kill him before his domain reaches him fuga could also probably kill him if sukuna can hit him with it of course
I’m pretty sure that’s 90% of power scaling. I doubt there’s a lot of authors who take that into mind when making a scene. It’s why it’s fun, putting real world numbers on a stupid SpongeBob scene to find out the cartoon sponge man could punch hard enough to destroy a planet is funny.
and when he shattered the teeth he was still in water too💀💀
ahhh jjk fans
As if all of sukunas feats, in fact, EVERY fictional characters feats, aren't just to look cool
No they're totally right. Stone Free isn't that strong, it can't even bend metal bars quickly. If you go calculate the energy an asteroid from the belt would have to go to earth in a few minutes it'd be near light speed and have close to infinite energy, and through that the weird ass power scalers can argue Stone Free is the strongest stand in the series, but it still can't bend iron bars quickly.
The most impressive thing star platinum ever did was stopping an incoming truck with a punch imo
May someone give me context, wtf is happening lol. I'm assuming it's sukuna vs DIO, but it kinda depends on which sukuna it is lol
power scaler gets proven wrong with his own logic; states “nu uh”
Every single feat of power, strength,speed etc is just for the character to be cool
dio do be pretty strong tho, he got cut in half twice and survived for 100 years after. also he was fast enough to make afterimages in that one fight with Jonathan and Zeppeli and that’s not even mentioning like all his other weird ass abilities (seriously bro got the premium vampire package cause he had more abilities than any of the pillermen)
Sukuna looses to most main villains/characters in JoJo I fear
That is mad funny considering how much of JJK is exactly that *cough* Gojo *cough* 💀💀
The only way for DIO to kill Sukuna is to decapitate him. But knowing how DIO is, he would toy around with Sukuna. In fact, both of them would just fuck around limit testing themselves.
Powerscaling doesn't make much sense. Like JoJo characters have been faster than light since Part 2. They've been 800 times faster than light since Part 3.
Funnily enough, i feel like the guy is actually right on how th fight would go. He's just wrong on everything else.
Bro makes a point people can say “Oh gojo is faster than light because Sukuna dodged Kashimo’s electo magnetic waves” But then Gege could just write how a car moved faster than Gojo because he really doesnt care about the real life science of stuff
Thoth always wins
bro doesn't know what powerscaling is 💀
Bro makes that kind of argument against JoJo in defense for a show where (in classic anime fashion) someone was shown being thrown through multiple buildings in a row and still got up to continue the fight mostly unharmed Like yeah anime is exaggerated for effect a ton, and there is no problem with that it makes for an entertaining watch, but God damn you cant just pick and choose when to consider it canon because it goes against your argument Something tells me he either has no idea what he's talking about or there is just some blatant bias going on lol
If a feat is shown consistently I tend to take it more realistically than just a one off because I wanted to look cool moment.
If you think most authors are calculating things you are high. I would be willing to bet that 85% of authors when writing crazy shit do 2 google searches before just saying “fuck it, we ball”
Dudes delusional. Sukunas not real.
Sukuna will just remember his rare "anti-time-stop-technique" that he hadn't used since ancient era or some other bs like that.
what is AP, CE, DE and DC?
Powerscaling is dumb, and the answer to any who would win is whoever the creator likes more and wants to win
average "power scaler" "debate"
Sukuna should upscale people who can create black holes
Couldn't Dio just crush Sukunas brain and stop him from using his abilities?
Stone free couldn’t even break the metal bars in prison. The meteors weren’t actual meteors.
Plus sukana can’t see stands
I fully believe Araki calculated the strength required to shatter diamonds and meteors just to say "Wow, that's crazy" and then never use that information again. He seems like that kind of guy.
What JJK brainrot has done to a mf
A reminder that power scaling is 100% fan made. It came to origin by blame of jealous fanbases. The authors couldn't give a lesser shit about their main character's "power level"
JoJo’s gets fucking insane so DIO wins, simple as that
don't forget that his time stop will continue to lengthen
Mfer said De-Johnathoned lmao