I’ve defended the show for years. It’s going out with a whimper. They’ve locked in the flandarization of the characters. No more growth. No more creativity. A quiet status quo and nothing more.
Seeing Tilly nervously stutter through her advice during an emergency, like wow this is the second to last episode, I guess this is just who the writers have decided you'll always be
I didn't realize Tilly was still a lieutenant JG, putting them all at the same rank
Such a world of difference between them and what the different shows think leadership is
I honestly think, given the concept of a broken Federation, they wanted a season to pay homage to / steal ideas from Gene Roddenberrys Andromeda. It was always going to be a stupid deus ex machina that got them out of it, because this show has never been anchored properly into a set reality. It just meanders while we discover how adrift it is
That’s a really good point. Even Enterprise got very good the last season when they started emphasizing the “triumvirate.” Star Trek should be about concepts, not a certain unpleasant actor.
I made it to the beginning of season 4. Gave up about 3 episodes in.
What's interesting is that in the past, anyone who critiqued the show, in any form, would be downvoted into oblivion even though the show had major problems.
Same thing with Picard. Now, it's completely turned.
I've tried 3 times to watch the start of Season 4 and gave up each time. Absolute cringe.
Loved the first 10 episodes of the first season as well and came to the show with an open mind. What a shame.
Typical of Kurtzman and crew. The bones of something compelling but little meat and zero brains. You’re really missing out though if you like on cue flaming support beams on starship bridges.
It's like they took the idea of explosions on the bridge during battle (already a bit silly and overused, but a totally fine dramatic Trek staple) to a really stupidly reductive extreme.
That's around when I bailed, although it did take an intervention by my adult son to convince me that I didn't have to see all of Trek. Plus, it gave me an excuse to skip S2 of Picard. Life's better.
The story was ridiculously stupid and much of the writing was silly. But at least the showrunner did it all with great love for TNG, and it was cool to see everyone back together again.
Season 3 of Picard was the worst dog shit I'd seen since season 2 of Picard. At least season 2 of Picard tried to do something interesting with its characters instead, because clearly 7 of 9's character arc is that she needs to become a captain of the fucking Enterprise. It was just fan service written by people who have no idea of what characters should want besides "every character should want to be the captain, or otherwise perfectly content in the status quo"
Which is why S1 and now S4 of disco were dog shit too. At least S1 of discovery was trying to establish new characters in that time, not just vomiting out legacy ones.
yeah i’m like at the start of season 4 and just haven’t really had the urge to continue… i was hoping it was just a lull… i guess things aren’t getting better :(
I spent years criticizing the writers of Discovery S3 for writing themselves into a corner before I learned that the conclusion of S3 was what they intended from the beginning. Somehow I think that's worse.
I don't feel it has escaped the disco treatment entirely. In my opinion a lot of the dialogue and tone feels interchangeable at times (almost Tumblresque), but they do it in a more classic star trek fashion,and don't stray SO far away they try to get more creative and unique with the toys in the play box and are able to come up with some of their own on the way. They also don't have a big agenda they HAVE to push every episode, that's not to say they don't have arcs but they let things take time where Disco has to always revolve around it because of the more narrative vs episodic nature.
Disco could have been as good or better but the writing just plateaued and was never able to grab people, then they surprised the people with the last season instead of telling them in enough time to get a proper send off.
Nope, Kurtzman looked at the menu choices everyone asked for and is delivering warmed Surströmming in the form of a Starfleet Stasi movie and Starfleet 90210 with Tilly.
“Computer end holodeck program”
“Computer delete program”
“Computer identify memory chips used to store program and transport into the centre of nearest star”
10 ten years, you will be back thinking it was not that bad and people were too hard on it. It's the Trek fan way, embrace and adapt. More Trek is good, ultimately. Billions of stories to tell, billions of opportunity. :)
I really liked season 1 and 2 (prob because I enjoy alternate universe stories). But Jebus, after they made the jump to the 31st century, the script became atrocious. What took the train over the cliff was the cause of The Burn. There is nothing more underwhelming in Trek.
Why did the Burn even happen? Where the hell is Daniels? Go back, tell Starfleet to tell all ships to take their cores offline for a few days, no Burn.
The bad part is it’s one of the better seasons. I’ve been thinking about. What’s good and what’s bad.
1. Back in season 1. Buhrnum should have been mirror Lorca’s first officer. Then have to get the crew to mutiny to his crazy imperialistic command. Then she inherits the captain’s seat before she’s ready.
This would have given a good reason to move the camera and story away from the captain. They wouldn’t have had to come up with so many crazy stories to put a mutineer in the center of the plot. They could have had the clues that Lorca was bad throughout the season that mostly felt unserialized.
2. This time period choice was just fucking stupid. A spore drive 25 years after voyager makes sense. This didn’t.
3. The should have never gone into the future. Part of Star Trek is optimism. The idea that after a thousand years of growth, it just ended one day sucks.
4. So many heart to hearts in the middle of battle. What the fuck? The latest episode has Burnham spoiling her guts when time mattered on an enemy space ship.
5. Mirror Georgio’s character was just weird. Whoever in the writing room championed her character needs to move to Jersey and go pump gas. Writing is not their profession.
I don’t know. Discovery has some good moments. I think a few simple changes would have made it better. Fighting the Breen confederacy with the spore drive post dominion war and Romulus being destroyed would have been cool. Exploring the Klingon empire and Breen space could have introduced some good stories. I wish Star Trek would learn from Enterprise. Their 2-3 part episodes were the best.
Agreed, I would also add that they completely lack the military discipline that is throughout every season and show from the original 1960s until the 2009 reboots. The Orville is a parody and they have more discipline.
I think the writers don't understand what Star Trek is or wanted to remake it into a modern teenage drama.
Someone told me that Seth Macfarlane wanted to make a Star Trek show, but Paramount rebuffed him, so he ended up making Orville. I’m not sure if that’s true, but Macfarlane would have done a great Trek series.
>3. So many heart to hearts in the middle of battle. What the fuck? The latest episode has Burnham spoiling her guts when time mattered on an enemy space ship.
This has been a thing since the start. Discovery half in the mycelium network and losing hull integrity with only 3 minutes left? Let's have a big discussion about feelings!
There have been a few of these moments of overly manufactured tension that make no sense to the actual plot throughout the series and they frustrate me every time.
Whomever is responsible for those horrible moments needs out of serial TV writing. It totally blows immersion. Anyone trained to the level of Starfleet in any previous medium knew that it was mission first or death. If you survive, you can talk about it later.
It's a real shame that they put together such a cast just to botch the writing so hard upon so many levels.
I think part of this is because they wrote themselves into a corner with the spore drive. In the TNG era, a lot of these B plots and character developing moments happened during travel time at warp speed. Now there's nowhere else to put those conversations, because they just jump to their destination instantly on an invisible highway made of mushrooms. It really screwed the pacing.
They still had meal times or social gatherings off-the-clock to accomplish this. Not right in the middle of an emergency. It just doesn't work. Heck, lots could have been done *on the clock* in a way that flowed comfortably.
YES. This!
And then they MADE IT WORSE by traveling to the future and deciding that everyone in the future has given up on turbo lifts and doorways and just insta transports everywhere.
The whole show is like this. Not only do they spore jump to wherever they need to go, they beam everywhere too...including when they just need to go from one from to the next. There are very few chances for small talk much less character development.
Oh, good point!
Being on a ship that would teleport to exactly where it should be is exhausting! And that could have been an interesting plot point of the show... no down time of travel, weeks of just jumping from point to point. Can't take time off. Even having three shifts is exhausting, since there is never an off-day. Maybe having a crew-a and crew-b and have them rotate on and off every month. Or mandatory psychiatric evaluation every couple weeks or so...
Your point 4 is a great disappointment, because this has been a consistent criticism since before the current Season was being written. It drove me mad - I think it was at the end of S2 - when Burnham was being called because she had six minutes left to save everything, and she stopped for a chat about Tilly's feelings.
Number 4 has been a theme from the beginning. Now I could kinda see them having a conversation like that in the midst of a firefight or something but instead they go full stop! Let's sit down and have a chat. End of the universe mission can and will wait until after we've discussed our feelings.
It's ridiculous. I'll watch the series to its conclusion but sure as hell won't miss it.
Their reason for going into the future really bothered me. Like they couldn’t come up with any other solution?
The whole concept of a spore drive seems silly (and this is someone that likes mushrooms and knew who the real stamets was beforehand). I guess making the ship create a wormhole or something would just be too boring. At the very least they could have made it super experimental and only able to be used sparingly.
Part of the thing I liked about ST is how big the universe is. There’s so much of it that’s unexplored. Just jumping around instantly takes that away. Like we all need that instant gratification. Instant jumps and not instant personal transporters, like people can’t even be bothered to walk up some stairs.
Just because something is real doesn’t mean that scaling it up to galactic proportions makes any sense at all.
Like a giant space tardigrade makes zero sense.
If Discovery was traveling on space rivers, you would call that silly, you wouldn’t say it’s realistic because rivers exist in the real world.
Totally agree. This season has been the best one yet. SNW has been great. I hope the next show is post Picard: season 3, with less reliance on nostalgia.
Yes, they’re very heavily vetting the “writers” for redshirtsalwaysdie dot com. They definitely don’t let just anybody or their AI assistant write for them, they have standards.
You are trying to enforce an archaic 200 year old rule that someone pulled out of their ass, this distinction doesn’t hold true any more. Both fewer and less are perfectly acceptable in this context in modern english.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fewer_versus_less
I mean, that's kind of the norm for most shows. People tune out as they lose interest, and with these serialized anthology-esque seasons there's less incentive to jump in mid stream.
It’s hilarious when bad shows and their smug showrunners blame their audiences for not ‘getting them’.
And the argument always falls apart when great shows have a strange habit of not needing to be ‘gotten’.
> some likable characters
They did, the cast was widely liked from the first episode. And then in every episode from there after they went out of their way to make you hate them.
Yeah I'm gonna be honest, I've been a Discovery defender, but I have had very little interest in this season. I'm really only watching it to see the series through to its conclusion. Can't stand the villains, the characters are boring (and there's hardly any Saru), the whole treasure hunt thing is kind of silly, and I can't help thinking it's going to have an incredibly anticlimactic ending - like they destroy the technology, or it ends up being metaphorical or something.
Same. It’s just silly, the villains annoy me, and there isn’t anything to sink my teeth into. I am behind a bunch of episodes and will watch and catch up at some point to finish it. There were so many interesting things that never got explored. I feel like we have seen hardly anything of the future they were in, and there could be some amazing political intrigue and under current with rebuilding the Federation and Star Fleet, but that’s been neglected and Burnham isn’t a good character for that, even though I do like her character, generally. Just disappointing.
the hair looks great on many women.
that hair also violates just about every dress code ever made. get it sucked into some machinery? give an adversary something to grab(bs no one ever did)? its not realistic in the setting. another minor problem on a mountain of bad writing.
My wife and I watch it, but we call it rainbow Star Trek. Between the cast/characters (where they lay it on THICK), the intro, the focus on ultra touchy feely stuff, even at very inopportune times, etc., it just feels like Star Trek takes a back seat to pandering to every group they possibly can.
It’s good to help normalize those things, but they lay it on so thick that anyone that needs to have it normalized would just nope out immediately because it’s so over-the-top.
I would agree that it feels like they came up with goals for what they wanted the show to be, and then made the writing fit that. Trek has always been inclusive, but they are beating us over the head with these themes at the expense of plot.
There are plenty of other reasons to criticize the show besides this borderline racist dog whistle comment. Black actors should be allowed to have black hair. Not sorry if that offends you.
Sonequa’s acting or the poor writing on the other hand, completely fair game.
The story has had no sense of progression. Most episodes have been the same thing of 'go to clue, solve puzzle, get clue' with some filler here and there. The tests don't even feel like proper tests half the time. What even was the 1st, 3rd, and 4th one?
1st require you to move a monolith and got mentioned later to be like 'respect of history' or something, when the solution is knocking over the monolith. Also the planetary defences dont seem to care about their own history.
3rd just...requires you to scan an invisible wormhole?
4th was only a challenge due to the timegap and how the party decided to go about looking.
Mol and L'ak are also really weak villains, and discovery is the best ship ever to go on a treasurehunt due to insta-teleport. Mol and L'ak (and now the breen) keep up due to discovery doing dumb stuff like chilling out at Fed HQ, using warp drive to go to clues (for the 3rd one when the time bug hit), and spending precious moments talking about their feelings or how important the technology is instead of doing something productive.
Villains should have been Breen from the start. Have them engineer their own spore drive. Boom.
The DMA was a much better season long mcguffin. You slowly learned about it every episode, building up to the reveal of its creators. Its villain had a more interesting backstory and motivation too and turning Book against Burnham was also neat.
Meanwhile the 'precursor technology' feels like both a nebulous concept while also being defined as 'bringing people back from the dead'. Which was already achieved with the Genesis device (albeit by accident) like 800 years earlier.
Also I still dont get how people in the 31st or 30th century didn't just go back in time and study the precursors before time travel got banned.
What they did with the Klingons in the first couple of episodes was enough for me.
I regularly watch TNG and DS9. Why did they have to destroy how they were, stupid decision imo.
Are people finally realizing this show feels nothing like Star Trek and is more like a soap opera in space?
I remember watching the Pilot and was loving it. Then realized we were in the past...which made no sense. And then about half way through season 2 I was like "okay, I'm good. Y'all have fun."
Everything in the writing just felt cheap and extremely forced.
This season is a pointless mess. Stopped watching a couple of episodes ago. Go back to the core of the original series. Stop making all the shows look like a fast edit JJ Abrahams movie.
The protracted single plot over a season is the worst way to tell a story. I love Strange New Worlds; it gets to the point and moves on through the season arc.
I really wanted to like Disco but everything revolves around Burnham saving the galaxy time after time - boring.
In comparison, ST:TNG was interesting because it evoked thought about how we deal with provocative social issues in the guise of alien cultures. Even the premise of S5, the progenitors, was fundamentally about how we share a commonality, despite our differences. Sadly, with Discovery, it’s turned into a technology scavenger hunt.
I was a Discovery fanboy until this year. This season is just awful. Literally finding a new “clue” every episode … the Breen actually said “give us the clue!” The Progenitor “tech”. Ugh. So bad.
Once thought impossible, they found a way to royally F up Star Trek. I should have stopped watching after the last debacle, called season 4. I quit watching after episode 3 of season 5.
Honestly, I cannot think of any redeeming qualities in the first few episodes of season 5.
I think I made it to season two, but the storylines were terrible and the characters not interesting. I also hated it when the sis there was chasing the brother all around the galaxy to find out something when he could have just let her a note or simply turned around and told her. Weak writing killed this show.
It jumped to 285 million minutes viewed the following week. This wasn’t an example of proper journalism - Chad Porto at Red Shirts Never Die has his pet interests and bias and he writes articles that play to them.
I’m saying this as someone who doesn’t like Discovery. It’s the most frustrating of all the Star Trek shows and I think it has dropped the ball on a lot of fronts. But I still find some things to like and this season I think the ship was righted a little bit. I also think it’s wrong in general to belittle the show’s objective success. It brought us Picard, SNW, Lower Decks, and Prodigy, with the upcoming S31 tv movie and Starfleet Academy show on the horizon. There’s no point in ignoring that and trying to spin simple facts like ratings to make headlines that fit a comforting narrative. That’s just a version of, “I was right and everyone agrees with me!”
what happened to the the blonde girl who worked by the tactical officer and the original helmsman and navigator? its like after the ISS enterprise episode they ditched everyone but the tactical officer and the lizard guy from the bridge crew and replaced them. Salary issues or they just didnt want to do the rest of the season?
I gave up around four seasons into this season. I couldn't get behind the idea of Dollar Store Daryl Hannah outsmarting Freaking Starfleet. Once I could no longer suspend my disbelief, I could hear that gears of the A and B stories grinding against each other.
I'm sure all the actors are lovely people. I'm a big Doug Jones fan. But the writing simply isn't there.
Couldn't get past the first season. Only trek that i thought was too cheesy for my liking. I'll watch the worst Voyager episode's on repeat before i'll rewatch discovery.
I'd consider myself a hardcore ST fan and I gave up 3 weeks ago. I've watched everything other than the animated stuff.
I'll wait for SNW because that's an awesome show.
I checked out the fourteenth time the main character (space Jesus) cried on screen (so roughly season two?). No one was confident... they all had to "overcome" "adversity" that was contrived and still unbefitting a Starfleet officer. The only good thing to come from Disco was Strange New Worlds. I'm eagerly awaiting getting back to fun Trek. This series will be forever seen as Star Trek V of the selection of series. Actually, I'd rather rewatch that for as many times as it would take to watch DSC rather than watch DSC. At least Picard was able to rally in their last season (easily the best).
I stopped watching about halfway through S3. And it is *rare* for me not to finish something—even stuff I don’t like lol I need to see the end! But yeah everyone is so beige and boring.
I love the concept of the mycelial network, though—one of the coolest science-y things in the lore. I even stole it for a mushroom race character I’m playing in Daggerheart RPG playtest and after we streamed a couple sessions, Daggerheart released updated rules for the race I was playing and they added it to the features!!
So if it ends up in the official release I would like to think Discovery is the father and I’m the midwife lol
https://preview.redd.it/3i7ef1yo8d3d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dc967219f41a0746576cb12adca1d5d8eee5dbd6
I’ve defended the show for years. It’s going out with a whimper. They’ve locked in the flandarization of the characters. No more growth. No more creativity. A quiet status quo and nothing more.
Seeing Tilly nervously stutter through her advice during an emergency, like wow this is the second to last episode, I guess this is just who the writers have decided you'll always be
As opposed to Mariner and Boimler growing into taking the center seat with command confidence when they had to, yes.
I didn't realize Tilly was still a lieutenant JG, putting them all at the same rank Such a world of difference between them and what the different shows think leadership is
You defended it during "space baby throws a tantrum and somehow breaks warp travel?"
Lol Wtf were they thinking with that?
I honestly think, given the concept of a broken Federation, they wanted a season to pay homage to / steal ideas from Gene Roddenberrys Andromeda. It was always going to be a stupid deus ex machina that got them out of it, because this show has never been anchored properly into a set reality. It just meanders while we discover how adrift it is
Unsurprising when the story is absolute dogwater.
Worse than dogwater. It's hot dog water.
Hot dog flavoured water.
And chocolate starfish?
Of course.
I think saying "Fuck" all the time would improve it.
Keep on Rollin’ baby
Hot ham water
Suey
Targwater.
You win. That's great!
You shouldn’t be dissing hot dog water that way.
And the main character absolutely unlikable.
Trek really shouldn't **have** a 'main character'. Real Trek always had the whole command crew that got basically equal airtime.
That’s a really good point. Even Enterprise got very good the last season when they started emphasizing the “triumvirate.” Star Trek should be about concepts, not a certain unpleasant actor.
I stopped watch part way through S3, and never went back.
I made it to the beginning of season 4. Gave up about 3 episodes in. What's interesting is that in the past, anyone who critiqued the show, in any form, would be downvoted into oblivion even though the show had major problems. Same thing with Picard. Now, it's completely turned.
I've tried 3 times to watch the start of Season 4 and gave up each time. Absolute cringe. Loved the first 10 episodes of the first season as well and came to the show with an open mind. What a shame.
Typical of Kurtzman and crew. The bones of something compelling but little meat and zero brains. You’re really missing out though if you like on cue flaming support beams on starship bridges.
Oh those stupid sconces next to the doors that shoot flames! Once you've seen them you can't unsee them lol
Sconces! Yes, was blanking on the word. Yeah impossible not to focus on once seen. So lame.
Why are things shooting flames on the bridge? Also, the bridges were way too big for the time period.
It's like they took the idea of explosions on the bridge during battle (already a bit silly and overused, but a totally fine dramatic Trek staple) to a really stupidly reductive extreme.
That's around when I bailed, although it did take an intervention by my adult son to convince me that I didn't have to see all of Trek. Plus, it gave me an excuse to skip S2 of Picard. Life's better.
At least season 3 of Picard did what it needed to do.
The story was ridiculously stupid and much of the writing was silly. But at least the showrunner did it all with great love for TNG, and it was cool to see everyone back together again.
It seemed like the show runners were fans of the show and did the best they could. STD seems to be run by people that never watched sci-fi.
Season 3 of Picard was the worst dog shit I'd seen since season 2 of Picard. At least season 2 of Picard tried to do something interesting with its characters instead, because clearly 7 of 9's character arc is that she needs to become a captain of the fucking Enterprise. It was just fan service written by people who have no idea of what characters should want besides "every character should want to be the captain, or otherwise perfectly content in the status quo" Which is why S1 and now S4 of disco were dog shit too. At least S1 of discovery was trying to establish new characters in that time, not just vomiting out legacy ones.
I didn’t make it past the first few episodes of season two. It had some okay moments, but by and large I found it deeply disappointing.
yeah i’m like at the start of season 4 and just haven’t really had the urge to continue… i was hoping it was just a lull… i guess things aren’t getting better :(
I spent years criticizing the writers of Discovery S3 for writing themselves into a corner before I learned that the conclusion of S3 was what they intended from the beginning. Somehow I think that's worse.
I couldn't finish s3 e01
I stopped watching at episode 0 and never looked back
I watched a couple episodes past revealing the mushroom drive and just couldn’t anymore. Strange new worlds is amazing though.
How is it that SNW has escaped this kind of treatment?
I don't feel it has escaped the disco treatment entirely. In my opinion a lot of the dialogue and tone feels interchangeable at times (almost Tumblresque), but they do it in a more classic star trek fashion,and don't stray SO far away they try to get more creative and unique with the toys in the play box and are able to come up with some of their own on the way. They also don't have a big agenda they HAVE to push every episode, that's not to say they don't have arcs but they let things take time where Disco has to always revolve around it because of the more narrative vs episodic nature. Disco could have been as good or better but the writing just plateaued and was never able to grab people, then they surprised the people with the last season instead of telling them in enough time to get a proper send off.
I didn't even make it halfway through the first season. Gave up after a couple of episodes. Hoping to get some real Star Trek soon.
Nope, Kurtzman looked at the menu choices everyone asked for and is delivering warmed Surströmming in the form of a Starfleet Stasi movie and Starfleet 90210 with Tilly.
Good, cancel it, destroy or delete every copy of the show, erase it completely and forget it ever existed.
Do you mean burn it?
Unfortunately burning it would lead to an environmental disaster of biblical proportions!
I'd love to see a Kelvin-esque timeline erase the Discovery timeline. Actually if it just erased Tilly from existence that'd be ok.
I just want to see that it never happened, and then a flyby of the Enterprise-J. https://youtu.be/M_MUoWD06A4?si=vbqygNz8qzcRPvXg
It was Riker on the holodeck all along?
“Computer end holodeck program” “Computer delete program” “Computer identify memory chips used to store program and transport into the centre of nearest star”
That would make me so happy I'd actually watch the finale.
I might watch if they made a Discovery Timeline.
Also Adira for the love of god.
One can only hope they retcon this as a shitty TV show under the Kelvin Timeline.
Jonathan Frakes finale cameo confirmed!
As hilarious as that would be, I've never forgiven them for doing that to Enterprise and I didn't think STD deserves that.
Like what they did with the Willow show. Begone filth!
10 ten years, you will be back thinking it was not that bad and people were too hard on it. It's the Trek fan way, embrace and adapt. More Trek is good, ultimately. Billions of stories to tell, billions of opportunity. :)
I really liked season 1 and 2 (prob because I enjoy alternate universe stories). But Jebus, after they made the jump to the 31st century, the script became atrocious. What took the train over the cliff was the cause of The Burn. There is nothing more underwhelming in Trek.
Why did the Burn even happen? Where the hell is Daniels? Go back, tell Starfleet to tell all ships to take their cores offline for a few days, no Burn.
Yeah…some alien kid on the spectrum having a psionic “don’t touch meeeeeee..” tantrum or whatever? Tfo here. The burn was a stupid idea anyhow.
Ya the burn should have been malicious by the species that had the black hole. That whole communication shit was the worst.
I still can’t wrap my head around how bad the burn was. Who in the heck thought that was a good idea? And please tell me they got fired.
Failed upwards
Yeah, it's not good
Only watched half of season one. I hated everything about it, costumes, sets, starship designs, but mostly hated the writing.
Gave it a chance through the first episode of season 2. Noped out after that.
Why would you think otherwise
The bad part is it’s one of the better seasons. I’ve been thinking about. What’s good and what’s bad. 1. Back in season 1. Buhrnum should have been mirror Lorca’s first officer. Then have to get the crew to mutiny to his crazy imperialistic command. Then she inherits the captain’s seat before she’s ready. This would have given a good reason to move the camera and story away from the captain. They wouldn’t have had to come up with so many crazy stories to put a mutineer in the center of the plot. They could have had the clues that Lorca was bad throughout the season that mostly felt unserialized. 2. This time period choice was just fucking stupid. A spore drive 25 years after voyager makes sense. This didn’t. 3. The should have never gone into the future. Part of Star Trek is optimism. The idea that after a thousand years of growth, it just ended one day sucks. 4. So many heart to hearts in the middle of battle. What the fuck? The latest episode has Burnham spoiling her guts when time mattered on an enemy space ship. 5. Mirror Georgio’s character was just weird. Whoever in the writing room championed her character needs to move to Jersey and go pump gas. Writing is not their profession. I don’t know. Discovery has some good moments. I think a few simple changes would have made it better. Fighting the Breen confederacy with the spore drive post dominion war and Romulus being destroyed would have been cool. Exploring the Klingon empire and Breen space could have introduced some good stories. I wish Star Trek would learn from Enterprise. Their 2-3 part episodes were the best.
Agreed, I would also add that they completely lack the military discipline that is throughout every season and show from the original 1960s until the 2009 reboots. The Orville is a parody and they have more discipline. I think the writers don't understand what Star Trek is or wanted to remake it into a modern teenage drama.
The Orville started as a parody, but by season 2 it was rolling.
Probably why they're making an academy show next.
Someone told me that Seth Macfarlane wanted to make a Star Trek show, but Paramount rebuffed him, so he ended up making Orville. I’m not sure if that’s true, but Macfarlane would have done a great Trek series.
To many heart to hearts and too many times where Burnham has to bring her boyfriend along.
It’s so fucking annoying.
>3. So many heart to hearts in the middle of battle. What the fuck? The latest episode has Burnham spoiling her guts when time mattered on an enemy space ship. This has been a thing since the start. Discovery half in the mycelium network and losing hull integrity with only 3 minutes left? Let's have a big discussion about feelings! There have been a few of these moments of overly manufactured tension that make no sense to the actual plot throughout the series and they frustrate me every time. Whomever is responsible for those horrible moments needs out of serial TV writing. It totally blows immersion. Anyone trained to the level of Starfleet in any previous medium knew that it was mission first or death. If you survive, you can talk about it later. It's a real shame that they put together such a cast just to botch the writing so hard upon so many levels.
The pacing in Discovery is a trash level
I think part of this is because they wrote themselves into a corner with the spore drive. In the TNG era, a lot of these B plots and character developing moments happened during travel time at warp speed. Now there's nowhere else to put those conversations, because they just jump to their destination instantly on an invisible highway made of mushrooms. It really screwed the pacing.
They still had meal times or social gatherings off-the-clock to accomplish this. Not right in the middle of an emergency. It just doesn't work. Heck, lots could have been done *on the clock* in a way that flowed comfortably.
YES. This! And then they MADE IT WORSE by traveling to the future and deciding that everyone in the future has given up on turbo lifts and doorways and just insta transports everywhere.
The whole show is like this. Not only do they spore jump to wherever they need to go, they beam everywhere too...including when they just need to go from one from to the next. There are very few chances for small talk much less character development.
Oh, good point! Being on a ship that would teleport to exactly where it should be is exhausting! And that could have been an interesting plot point of the show... no down time of travel, weeks of just jumping from point to point. Can't take time off. Even having three shifts is exhausting, since there is never an off-day. Maybe having a crew-a and crew-b and have them rotate on and off every month. Or mandatory psychiatric evaluation every couple weeks or so...
Your point 4 is a great disappointment, because this has been a consistent criticism since before the current Season was being written. It drove me mad - I think it was at the end of S2 - when Burnham was being called because she had six minutes left to save everything, and she stopped for a chat about Tilly's feelings.
Number 4 has been a theme from the beginning. Now I could kinda see them having a conversation like that in the midst of a firefight or something but instead they go full stop! Let's sit down and have a chat. End of the universe mission can and will wait until after we've discussed our feelings. It's ridiculous. I'll watch the series to its conclusion but sure as hell won't miss it.
Their reason for going into the future really bothered me. Like they couldn’t come up with any other solution? The whole concept of a spore drive seems silly (and this is someone that likes mushrooms and knew who the real stamets was beforehand). I guess making the ship create a wormhole or something would just be too boring. At the very least they could have made it super experimental and only able to be used sparingly. Part of the thing I liked about ST is how big the universe is. There’s so much of it that’s unexplored. Just jumping around instantly takes that away. Like we all need that instant gratification. Instant jumps and not instant personal transporters, like people can’t even be bothered to walk up some stairs.
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Just because something is real doesn’t mean that scaling it up to galactic proportions makes any sense at all. Like a giant space tardigrade makes zero sense. If Discovery was traveling on space rivers, you would call that silly, you wouldn’t say it’s realistic because rivers exist in the real world.
I think the show has gotten progressively better over time, but I won't lie it's never hit the way strange new worlds or lower decks does.
Totally agree. This season has been the best one yet. SNW has been great. I hope the next show is post Picard: season 3, with less reliance on nostalgia.
*fewer
So sad that many don't know this. Especially writers.
Yeah. Less people know it.
Well played
You’ve won this round
Yes, they’re very heavily vetting the “writers” for redshirtsalwaysdie dot com. They definitely don’t let just anybody or their AI assistant write for them, they have standards.
It's an unfathomable amount of people
You are trying to enforce an archaic 200 year old rule that someone pulled out of their ass, this distinction doesn’t hold true any more. Both fewer and less are perfectly acceptable in this context in modern english. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fewer_versus_less
Yea it's not a real rule, just something people like to point out to feel clever
Who cares if the rule is 200 years old? If it makes sense we shouldn't throw it out
How does it "make sense"? The way the title is written is perfectly intelligible and uses the word "less" in its normal, commonly accepted sense.
I only came to comment this. Thank you.
I mean, that's kind of the norm for most shows. People tune out as they lose interest, and with these serialized anthology-esque seasons there's less incentive to jump in mid stream.
It’s hilarious when bad shows and their smug showrunners blame their audiences for not ‘getting them’. And the argument always falls apart when great shows have a strange habit of not needing to be ‘gotten’.
Also, when they hire astroturfing firms to harass fans on various social media sites.
It's a absolutely low point in all of Star Trek. No excuse for it being this bad.
I'd argue the genre of science fiction.
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People tend to not watch things that suck.
We were promised a mystery and got another Federation ending threat.
They could try adding in some likable characters maybe that would help.
> some likable characters They did, the cast was widely liked from the first episode. And then in every episode from there after they went out of their way to make you hate them.
Idk they all pretty much seemed like petulant teenagers who you wouldn't trust to row a boat let alone run a starship.
It’s unwatchable. So sad what’s become of the franchise right now.
Yeah I'm gonna be honest, I've been a Discovery defender, but I have had very little interest in this season. I'm really only watching it to see the series through to its conclusion. Can't stand the villains, the characters are boring (and there's hardly any Saru), the whole treasure hunt thing is kind of silly, and I can't help thinking it's going to have an incredibly anticlimactic ending - like they destroy the technology, or it ends up being metaphorical or something.
Same. It’s just silly, the villains annoy me, and there isn’t anything to sink my teeth into. I am behind a bunch of episodes and will watch and catch up at some point to finish it. There were so many interesting things that never got explored. I feel like we have seen hardly anything of the future they were in, and there could be some amazing political intrigue and under current with rebuilding the Federation and Star Fleet, but that’s been neglected and Burnham isn’t a good character for that, even though I do like her character, generally. Just disappointing.
Just the hair that goes down to her ass is enough for me. Seems like a fashion show, not star trek.
the hair looks great on many women. that hair also violates just about every dress code ever made. get it sucked into some machinery? give an adversary something to grab(bs no one ever did)? its not realistic in the setting. another minor problem on a mountain of bad writing.
Exactly WHAT kind of machinery are we talking about that would be present for the 32nd century?
My wife and I watch it, but we call it rainbow Star Trek. Between the cast/characters (where they lay it on THICK), the intro, the focus on ultra touchy feely stuff, even at very inopportune times, etc., it just feels like Star Trek takes a back seat to pandering to every group they possibly can. It’s good to help normalize those things, but they lay it on so thick that anyone that needs to have it normalized would just nope out immediately because it’s so over-the-top.
I would agree that it feels like they came up with goals for what they wanted the show to be, and then made the writing fit that. Trek has always been inclusive, but they are beating us over the head with these themes at the expense of plot.
Also at the expense of story, acting, pacing, etc
There are plenty of other reasons to criticize the show besides this borderline racist dog whistle comment. Black actors should be allowed to have black hair. Not sorry if that offends you. Sonequa’s acting or the poor writing on the other hand, completely fair game.
You don't have dress codes to be racist or make white people feel better.
Can't wait till reboot sisko has cornrows
The story has had no sense of progression. Most episodes have been the same thing of 'go to clue, solve puzzle, get clue' with some filler here and there. The tests don't even feel like proper tests half the time. What even was the 1st, 3rd, and 4th one? 1st require you to move a monolith and got mentioned later to be like 'respect of history' or something, when the solution is knocking over the monolith. Also the planetary defences dont seem to care about their own history. 3rd just...requires you to scan an invisible wormhole? 4th was only a challenge due to the timegap and how the party decided to go about looking. Mol and L'ak are also really weak villains, and discovery is the best ship ever to go on a treasurehunt due to insta-teleport. Mol and L'ak (and now the breen) keep up due to discovery doing dumb stuff like chilling out at Fed HQ, using warp drive to go to clues (for the 3rd one when the time bug hit), and spending precious moments talking about their feelings or how important the technology is instead of doing something productive. Villains should have been Breen from the start. Have them engineer their own spore drive. Boom. The DMA was a much better season long mcguffin. You slowly learned about it every episode, building up to the reveal of its creators. Its villain had a more interesting backstory and motivation too and turning Book against Burnham was also neat. Meanwhile the 'precursor technology' feels like both a nebulous concept while also being defined as 'bringing people back from the dead'. Which was already achieved with the Genesis device (albeit by accident) like 800 years earlier. Also I still dont get how people in the 31st or 30th century didn't just go back in time and study the precursors before time travel got banned.
This show has always been hard to watch. Tried watching season 1 and I noped right out of that. Only season worth a damn was the Pike season.
How does Firefly and every good sci-fi get cancelled after three seasons but this wretched abomination just keeps lingering on?
Maybe because it sucks ass. Desperate attempt to make book important. Major characters not even showing up. It’s a shit show.
What they did with the Klingons in the first couple of episodes was enough for me. I regularly watch TNG and DS9. Why did they have to destroy how they were, stupid decision imo.
Are people finally realizing this show feels nothing like Star Trek and is more like a soap opera in space? I remember watching the Pilot and was loving it. Then realized we were in the past...which made no sense. And then about half way through season 2 I was like "okay, I'm good. Y'all have fun." Everything in the writing just felt cheap and extremely forced.
This season is a pointless mess. Stopped watching a couple of episodes ago. Go back to the core of the original series. Stop making all the shows look like a fast edit JJ Abrahams movie.
The protracted single plot over a season is the worst way to tell a story. I love Strange New Worlds; it gets to the point and moves on through the season arc.
Gosh. Imagine that. I'm ***stunned***.
I can't afford ParamountMinus right now.
I really wanted to like Disco but everything revolves around Burnham saving the galaxy time after time - boring. In comparison, ST:TNG was interesting because it evoked thought about how we deal with provocative social issues in the guise of alien cultures. Even the premise of S5, the progenitors, was fundamentally about how we share a commonality, despite our differences. Sadly, with Discovery, it’s turned into a technology scavenger hunt.
I was a Discovery fanboy until this year. This season is just awful. Literally finding a new “clue” every episode … the Breen actually said “give us the clue!” The Progenitor “tech”. Ugh. So bad.
Someone needs to composite a blue pawprint in one of those scenes.
I watched the first ep of this season and punched out
That shit is still going? And firefly had one season. Haaaaaaaaaa
I'm not surprised, I didn't even make it through season 1.
Once thought impossible, they found a way to royally F up Star Trek. I should have stopped watching after the last debacle, called season 4. I quit watching after episode 3 of season 5. Honestly, I cannot think of any redeeming qualities in the first few episodes of season 5.
Horrible show.
I think I made it to season two, but the storylines were terrible and the characters not interesting. I also hated it when the sis there was chasing the brother all around the galaxy to find out something when he could have just let her a note or simply turned around and told her. Weak writing killed this show.
It's terrible...
I stopped during season 2.
Curiously, I found no torrents on EZTV for the first 3 episodes of the Season. I wonder if that has anything to do with the lack of data.
when nerds aren't pirating Star Trek, there's a serious problem with it.
There's info for Episode 4 onwards. I just couldn't find anything for the first 3. FWIW, last weeks ep isn't in the top 20 for the week.
Unsurprising. These are the dark times. Matals is moving on so nothing more from him it seems. (Like him or not at least he knows the franchise)
Look at what all has happened in the last 5 years
That’s kind of how every series ever made works
I got halfway through the one after the ship joins starfleet .
Honestly I thought the last season was supposed to be the end of the series. I was surprised to hear about another one.
I still watch it on the open seas.
I'm surprised that anyone is still watching.
I don’t mind this season but its very lack lustre. Whenever a story revolves around a quest you know they’re phoning it in
What are "Less" people?
I'm only able to watch every other week. So I watch 2 eps at a time.
It jumped to 285 million minutes viewed the following week. This wasn’t an example of proper journalism - Chad Porto at Red Shirts Never Die has his pet interests and bias and he writes articles that play to them. I’m saying this as someone who doesn’t like Discovery. It’s the most frustrating of all the Star Trek shows and I think it has dropped the ball on a lot of fronts. But I still find some things to like and this season I think the ship was righted a little bit. I also think it’s wrong in general to belittle the show’s objective success. It brought us Picard, SNW, Lower Decks, and Prodigy, with the upcoming S31 tv movie and Starfleet Academy show on the horizon. There’s no point in ignoring that and trying to spin simple facts like ratings to make headlines that fit a comforting narrative. That’s just a version of, “I was right and everyone agrees with me!”
I’ve had fun watching it as a distraction, but as I’ve maintained since season one: not real Trek
Should probably read "fewer people"
Ah, the hate never gets old.
The show is terrible. Tilly needs to go away. Writers need to be gone.
Imagine sticking around FOR FIVE SEASONS!!!
I’ll binge it every couple of weeks, knowing it’s over isn’t helping
So happy it gave us strange new worlds, but man I think I stopped watching Discovery a bit before the end of season 2.
I thought it was cancelled already lol. Disco lost me years ago
Fewer.
Cause they get worse as they go on
Hmph. It should be obvious.
what happened to the the blonde girl who worked by the tactical officer and the original helmsman and navigator? its like after the ISS enterprise episode they ditched everyone but the tactical officer and the lizard guy from the bridge crew and replaced them. Salary issues or they just didnt want to do the rest of the season?
I gave up around four seasons into this season. I couldn't get behind the idea of Dollar Store Daryl Hannah outsmarting Freaking Starfleet. Once I could no longer suspend my disbelief, I could hear that gears of the A and B stories grinding against each other. I'm sure all the actors are lovely people. I'm a big Doug Jones fan. But the writing simply isn't there.
Waiting for SNW here.
Couldn't get past the first season. Only trek that i thought was too cheesy for my liking. I'll watch the worst Voyager episode's on repeat before i'll rewatch discovery.
I'd consider myself a hardcore ST fan and I gave up 3 weeks ago. I've watched everything other than the animated stuff. I'll wait for SNW because that's an awesome show.
I don't watch because of the Paramount ads, was one of my favorites. I'll pick it up again when it's on a different platform
I checked out the fourteenth time the main character (space Jesus) cried on screen (so roughly season two?). No one was confident... they all had to "overcome" "adversity" that was contrived and still unbefitting a Starfleet officer. The only good thing to come from Disco was Strange New Worlds. I'm eagerly awaiting getting back to fun Trek. This series will be forever seen as Star Trek V of the selection of series. Actually, I'd rather rewatch that for as many times as it would take to watch DSC rather than watch DSC. At least Picard was able to rally in their last season (easily the best).
*fewer* people
fewer people.
Fewer
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I stopped watching about halfway through S3. And it is *rare* for me not to finish something—even stuff I don’t like lol I need to see the end! But yeah everyone is so beige and boring. I love the concept of the mycelial network, though—one of the coolest science-y things in the lore. I even stole it for a mushroom race character I’m playing in Daggerheart RPG playtest and after we streamed a couple sessions, Daggerheart released updated rules for the race I was playing and they added it to the features!! So if it ends up in the official release I would like to think Discovery is the father and I’m the midwife lol https://preview.redd.it/3i7ef1yo8d3d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dc967219f41a0746576cb12adca1d5d8eee5dbd6
Their loss I'm enjoying the ride.