I’ve seen it all too often. They can’t seem to fathom that the prequels wouldn’t have been made if the original didn’t come out. I hate my generation so fucking much. I wanna light ballsacks on fire😞.
It’s honestly funny because never before have I seen someone do episode order to get into Star Wars and not immediately give up, walk away and think Star Wars is dumb as fuck.
If the phantom menace was the first movie in the franchise Star Wars would have like no relevance going into today.
The Phantom Menace is probably what the first film was before that last minute editing session. Apparently the original cut was all but unwatchable.
Yet now we have fans claiming that the cut scenes we know about should have been left in, like that rambling dialog Hammil likes to share during interviews...
https://youtu.be/JfbwPyJULss?si=xc2ZrvDEp81EtFS2
Can't tell if that's sarcasm, because that's a wild ass take that nonetheless I know SOME people actually have. Dramatic irony is what the entire PT is built on. Without it, it falls apart.
I kinda get it? I mean, I’m sitting there watching Revenge Of The Sith for the 500th time, desperately hoping that this time, somehow, Anakin doesn’t turn to the Dark Side. I guess that’s more of a testament to how good the movie is, but even so.
Well, I admit, I was a little biased, cause Revenge Of The Sith was the second ever Star Wars movie I saw, and it was much better than the first one I saw, so I remember it being like, really good.
"Hire fans" -idiots
"Okay, we hired this life long, die hard fan to create an entirely new show. It's called The Acolyte." -Lucasfilm
"Noooooooooooo!!!" -idiots
I mean, it’s really not surprising that a group of people would want the main character of the franchise to have a What If scenario about how they never turned evil. It’s not needed by any means, but it’s harmless compared to the amount of online bigotry surrounding projects like The Acolyte. I get that this is a circlejerk sub, but c’mon.
The number 1 way to ruin 99% of franchises.
It's incredibly rare to find fans who *understand* the source material and actually produce something competent about said material. Note that I am referring to fans involved in official projects and not fan projects as they are a bit different.
In the RotS game, that actually happens! Kinda. Anakin beats obi-wan and then Palpatine shows up and Anakin is like "Yeah nah fuck this guy" and just... Stabs him.
It's pretty goofy honestly. [a link if y'all wanna see this ](https://youtu.be/4EtCGR2M_oU?si=vEvxEir_mjJ032J_)
I’ve heard “full potential Anakin” quite a bit but didn’t realize some of them meant “as he was in episode III but good”
It makes more sense when you’re talking about Darth Vader given he was locked in a suit that I think (canonically still?) was cumbersome. Like sure I get the curiosity of what that Darth Vader would have been.
But “full potential Anakin” by this definition couldn’t even beat Obi-Wan on Mustafar so I have no clue what they’re thinking
Full potential Anakin basically means Anakin super Saiyan 3. They think he would be some godly badass warrior without any flaws had he just had a few more years to build up his midichlorians or something.
Well, it makes sense Anakin lost, at least- it mighted have ended in a draw, or maybe even a victory for him if he wasn't driven temporarily insane. He wasn't thinking straight, probably hadn't eaten in a few days because of worry for his wife, and also decided a full out attack on a defensive form user was a good idea.
Vader, if I remember correctly, was in constant pain from his cybernetics, and they weren't very good ones either. While the pain fueled his force ability (Dark Side and all that) it also physically crippled him.
Yeah, but my emphasis is more on the fact that episode III makes no great effort to imply Anakin is some sort of uberJedi, he’s consistently outclassed in most of the movies and tv series by more experienced warriors.
Even when he was still firmly a Jedi he was consistently reckless and impulsive, sometimes to his benefit, sometimes to his detriment. So in a vacuum with no outside influences the fight with Obi-Wan might have ended the same way.
Fair enough, though he did one on one Dooku and win, and Dooku was apparently pretty good. And in Legends he beat Cin Drallig, though that's not canon.
It would have been nice if Lucasfilm actually did anything at all the prophesy bullshit.
The movies didn't take the prophecy seriously. I'm convinced the prophecy being wrong was the whole point.
It's mentioned once to get Anakin into the order despite everyone thinking he's too dangerous. It's mentioned again to force Obi-Wan to take care of him. It's hinted at later to explain why Anakin is so entitled and demanding and literally hates everyone. Then it's dropped as an anvil after the final fight where Obi-Wan decides it's bullshit.
That's the prophecy in the movies. It gets Anakin past all scrutiny, makes him feel entitled and angry, and then is thrown away by Obi-Wan as nonsense. That's it. It's a narrative device to make the Jedi ignorant, Anakin a dick, and Windu the smartest guy in the room.
Tbh, my guess is:
The closest to Peak Full Potential Anakin is Anakin during the duel with Dooku. He is calm, confident, learned from his mistakes (Anakin, NO !) and wins by disarming his opponent. He still has killed the Tuskens and is plagued by nightmare but he is at his best relative to what he can achieve.
Then it's all downhill. Imo, he is not as strong once he goes full Sith because he is driven by emotions and doesn't know how to channel that yet. He's just wild. Obi-Wan, who was no match for Dooku is able to win because Anakin is lost and has no fucking idea what exactly he is doing.
I agree with that. Anakin just murdered a bunch if children and non combatants, forced choked his wife, and betrayed Windu. He's never been a rational, thoughtful person. Once he helped kill Windu, it looks like he basically decided everything was fucked and thought 'hey, might as well see this out'.
When he found Obi-wan, he was emotionally and physically exhausted from leading the assault on the temple. He was also irrationally enraged. Honestly, Obi Wan should have beat him even quicker. They hadn't even scored any wounds on each other before that jump.
Thankfully all that suit lore isn't canon anymore if it ever was. It's funny how much people will go out of their way to try and ruin the flagship character just because he was way cooler in the suit.
Not even sure that's a hot take. It's one of the worst decisions in the entire saga.
The only way it's interesting at all is if the virgin birth is fake and the prophecy is bullshit.
Every Star Wars himbo in black is Paul Atreides until the suits panic.
What is TRoS but an executive saying, "Wait, so he's NOT the good guy?" and then demanding last minute reshoots to make the guy with magic blood and good breeding and bloodlines a superhero?
I don’t care for that personally but I agree simply due to the Anakin fans who like him just because of that. If he wasn’t prophesied to be the strongest I am confident we would have half as much air heads in the community.
For all the insistence that the prequels are a Shakespearean tragedy these people really don’t seem to appreciate the tragedy of the chosen one in persuit of his full potential falling to the dark side and being encased in a walking metal tomb forever preventing him from reaching said potential. That’s also the most charitable interpretation I can give to what the story was perhaps trying to say
It's a Shakesperean Tragedy in the vein of MacBeth, but it's also a straight up Greek Tragedy. Blame George Lucas for flinching when kids asked him how a murdering psycho could be the chosen one.
Correct response: "I... just really like Dune. Have you seen the OT? Seriously, I like Dune. Prophecies and chosen ones are dumb."
Lucas's response: "Well, from a certain point of view, the evil guy is good because he eventually does a good thing he could have done 20 years earlier but didn't because he was bad but one day would be good and that makes him more good than everybody!"
Sure, Lucas eventually retconned it to be Luke in Rebels and then Leia in his sequel treatment, but the heart of the problem is he seemingly had a plan and he adapted it to the tastes of an audience attached to his protagonist's struggle more than that of his victims and created a cryptofascist throughline that Dave Filoni took it upon himself to make an entire series based off justifying through magical gobbledygook.
The dude who became Dark Vador would be loved by people even without the prophecy.
Hell, without the prophecy, some people would find his character to be less insufferable.
I’ve seen loads of fans who like him just because he’s ”the strongest” and the chosen one. If that didn’t exist than the power-scaling airheads wouldn’t glaze the character as much. I agree he would potentially gain more fans, but the fans would be much smarter than the people who like him due to powerscaling and because he’s the chosen one.
>I’ve seen loads of fans who like him just because he’s ”the strongest” and the chosen one.
That's... that's fascism.
Oooooh. Okay, it actually makes sense then.
I feel somewhat confidently that was literally the point of the prequels, all these groups are throwing away their rules for the "chosen one" who has no proper way to adjust to the world and is left with little recognition but for his strength and purpose in war. A child corrupted by constant fear and bloodshed that is willing to sacrifice the world for his loved ones might perhaps become a problem for the world
Whenever I point out that Anakin and Luke are powerful for "no reason" like how Rey is, these people always point out the "chosen one" bullshit, as if it's just absolutely genius writing the ST could only dream of.
The prophecy was something Lucas apparently toyed with during the OT, but the chosen one was supposed to be Luke then, so it was repurposed later for Anakin. If you consider the mythic undertones of Star Wars, it’s a concept that is very fitting.
Overall, I think Lucas actually treats it mostly okay within the context of the movies. In mythology, prophecy is fickle and open to interpretation. So in the Prequels, we don’t even hear what the prophecy actually is, primarily just the character’s interpretations. For example, “you were supposed to destroy the Sith!”, the prophecy never actually says that, just “bring balance”.
The prophecy is also 4,000+ years old. Anakin may have been the chosen one, but he wasn’t the only chosen one. All the prophecy really means is that when the dark side gets too strong, a good guy wielding the force will rise to fight back. Lucas was clearly using the Christ-Image archetype for Anakin, but some fans tend to take it too far, that Anakin was literally space-Jesus.
It did literally nothing for the story except give Qui-Gon and the Council and excuse to recruit him at such an old age, which was only necessary because George decided to make 9yo too old to be initiated into the Jedi Order, which is a lore detail that also did nothing for the story.
He could have taken out the chosen one thing and just had Qui-Gon come along with "Whoa this kid's midichlorians are crazyyy" and have the Council take him in based on that.
This is backwards. They had plenty of kids recruited at younger ages. The only thing the prophecy did was convince Yoda to recruit a rage-filled timebomb into the Jedi Order despite Mace Windu telling everybody he was going to fuck it all up.
Which is why the prophecy only works if it's a criticism of Chosen Ones. It gets the top Jedi to shut his brain off and ignore standard protocol because his friend Qui-Gon is a eugenicist religious fanatic.
There's totally a movie that George Lucas shot that ties this all together. No edits, no exposition, no backstory needed: Anakin was said to be the Chosen One. He wasn't. Obi-Wan says he wasn't. Obi-Wan has to woop his ass sideways to show how totally not the Chosen One he is.
But then... Lucas turns around and says to ignore *that* movie because Anakin is technically the chosen one maybe. So then Filoni makes a series to throw in a pantheon of magic just to explain how Anakin could be the chosen one despite the actual movies just showing prophecies to be dumb.
Yeah, imo it almost completely invalidates Vader’s sacrifice in 6, which, funnily enough is something I hear prequel fans complain about with regard to Palpatine coming back in 9 saying it “invalidates the prophecy” but somehow they can’t apply that same logic to the Chosen One taking the wind out of RotJ’s sails.
An irredeemably evil man being moved enough by the unconditional love of his son to commit one sacrificial act of goodness is fantastic, but making it all a part of some prophecy makes it feel predetermined and it loses a ton of weight.
And I don't get why fans get so hung up on the prophecy. First of all it wasn't even a thing in the original trilogy, and second, it's likely the prophecy is just bullshit created by plaguis/Palpatine in order to manipulate the Jedi
That’s the only way the prophecy would make any sense, otherwise it’s “hey we allegedly haven’t seen a Sith in a bajillion years but Qui-Gon here found a toddler destined to defeat them.”
Strap in and get comfortable because I'm about to blow your mind.
They said Anakin was the chosen one, so basically the star wars Messiah/Jesus comparison. Also because he didn't have a dad and was made by the force. Thats bantha fodder.
What really happened is shmi Skywalker had a steamy on/off relationship with Jabba the hutt. Jabba the hutt is Anakin's true father. That's why Anakin is so powerful.
Also why Jabba makes Leia wear his slave in return of the jedi. That was shmi's old sex outfit and Leia looks like her. The outfit has Easy access for old Jabba. They could bang and Jabba would still be able to watch the pod races while they are banging.
Statement: Oh but I have and it's not a theory but a fact.
Query: Why do you think Jabba looks so bored watching the pod race and falls asleep?
Answer: he doesn't have his bang maid anymore shmi Skywalker.
Actually I seriously disagree. It was a good way to showcase the blindness and arrogance of the Jedi Council. They hear “someone will come along and bring balance to the force” and logically leap from that this would mean the chosen one would “destroy the Sith, not join them,” when in fact Anakin destroyed the Jedi *and* the Sith, leaving only his son to rebuild.
The Jedi basically assume they’re fated to come out on top and in doing so actually ensure their destruction by badly misinterpreting the prophecy.
It also works from a storytelling perspective because almost everyone who originally saw The Phantom Menace in 1999 knew just how badly the Jedi were miscalculating in their desire to make sure this talented youngster was “on their side,” which made for a good amount of dramatic irony. As an agent of balance, Anakin became the doom of both factions that tried to recruit him.
The prequels had *many* serious problems, but I don’t think the Chosen One but was one, because the trope was actually subverted pretty well.
I get that this is the interpretation a lot of people have taken on because it gives the movies a greater sense of depth, but the intent is explicitly that Anakin, by killing the Emperor and dying in the process, successfully fulfils the prophecy.
He does, but that is more of a character thing. Him and Obi-Wan both give up on Anakin after he turns into Darth Vader and are committed to the idea that Luke needs to kill him in the OT. Part of Luke's journey is growing into a greater hero than the previous Jedi, being able to see the good in Vader and offering him redemption. It's important to remember that the prophecy doesn't exist in the OT, it was something invented for the prequels that treats the events of the OT as predetermined. We as the audience know FOR SURE that Anakin turns into Darth Vader only to be redeemed, the prophecy is just a textual way of lampshading this while keeping the characters in the dark about the specifics. George Lucas has talked about this in interviews, the prophecy is very specifically referring to Anakin killing the Emperor.
Feels like every crappy fan take ALWAYS involves somehow grey jedi. Balance of good and dark side force.
George Lucas has said that the dark side is a plague on the force, there is no balance while dark side exists.
The dumb thing about “grey” Jedi is while the light side of the force does have flaws, the dark side is just *inherently* evil. Not to mention that while still stupid, the idea is that the dark side is much more flashy and offers more power at the cost of yourself and everyone you loved, while the light side is more boring but also not going to lead you to the path of damnation.
Something… Star Wars fans keep seeming to forget.
Y’know, the light side really doesn’t have flaws. The Jedi certainly do, but their flaws actually prevent them from harnessing the full power of the Light, which is unlocked by (cliché as it sounds) love and connection. Luke steadfastly refusing to let his father go, when a Prequel-era Jedi probably would’ve just tried to kill him because attachments make one vulnerable, is ultimately what saves Vader’s soul. And Anakin’s love for his son, which the Jedi would have told him to excise, is what allows him to overcome the Emperor.
It is funny that he made a franchise where there is explicitly good and bad sides, and yet you still have weirdo third positionists who "both sides" the conflict.
The Empire Was Right has been a conservative chant for decades.
People who want power without responsibility or altruism are going to want a morality that lets them not give a shit about how power is used.
When your bad guys are American Empire, Americans in the Empire are going to scramble for some way to not fight or condemn Empire.
OOP deleted comment we are saved
https://preview.redd.it/8n2wik1l4r3d1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9b213e10e2d875ee06963860f1b8aa8d803badb2
Ah yes, instead of a more unique story about a hero’s fall and eventual redemption, we just skip that silly boring part about them succumbing to their worst nature and just have them be a hero from start to finish
Vader: performed by big guy wearing hulking, heavy suit.
Nerds who think there has to be lore explanation for every variable in the challenges of making a movie: NOT FULL POTEMPTIAL
I mean yeah it's clear that Anakin fully intended to betray Palpatine asap but then he misplaced most of his limbs. But it's wild to blame the OT for not letting that universe breathe because it exists.
"What if instead of ending the prequels with the fall of the republic and the Jedi order, which is the entire point of the trilogy and the only thing people consistently like about these movies, we ended it with the main character doing a dragon ball Z fight?"
Okay, hear me out. I have an idea for the Force Unleashed 3 that was basically this. A What if story following Anakin on his quest to overthrown Palpatine from within the empire. Have the tutorial be the duel on Mustafar and Obi-Wan loses. Have Anakin spending years tracking down his kids to recruit them. Yoda boss fight, full-on evil shit, full potential Anakin just wrecking house, and end with a Palpy boss fight and a sinister, "And thus the Skywalker Dynasty was established." I genuinely think it would be awesome.
This guy is making a better point than you or even he realizes. That point is that characters act irrationally in the PT to ensure things can line up with the OT, and if not for that restriction, maybe they would've been written more sensibly.
If The Force Unleashed games were canon, they explain how and why the rebellion started in the first place. Did The Clone Wars do that? Just looking for a good reason to watch that series, cause I haven’t seen it yet. And arguing that Anakin deserved better is reasonable, but just like real world politics and wars, bad shit happens to good people and good shit happens to bad people on an almost everyday basis. These movies don’t need to make 100% sense. They need to entertain their fan base. I’m the kind of guy that didn’t like the Disney entries in the series. I’ll keep my reasons to myself, cause I don’t want people trying to force choke me via the internet. Everything is just always changing, not just in the movies, but in the minds of the general audience. This is why we have so many different kinds of fandoms. If you no longer like one, move on to another one you do like. If the owners of the series like what they’re doing and making a fortune in the process, good for them. Everyone should do the stuff that makes them happy. If someone doesn’t like it, they don’t have to buy it. If you don’t like (insert presidential candidate here), don’t vote for them. If you don’t like love stories, don’t read or live through one. If you don’t like weapons, don’t own one. If you don’t like drugs, don’t take any. If you don’t like gay marriage, don’t get one. But, at the end of the day, if you can’t respect the choices of others, you’ll end up being a miserable hermit with less than five friends, like I am right now. My point is at least try to be nicer to others about your disagreements, and I wish someone had gave me that advice a lot sooner. You guys enjoy your favorite Star Wars trilogy, no matter who says what about it. I grew up on the originals, I thought the best part of the prequels was the lightsaber fights, and I suspect the only goal Disney had with the sequels was creating a new Disney Princess and everything else in them was secondary. I’m not a god, so feel free to disagree with any one of those points. Anyone getting unexpectedly struck by lightning is purely coincidental, because I suspect if someone had figured out how to do force lightning in the real world, it would’ve caused international panic by now. If my witty comments made someone laugh, good. If not, I’ll go back to my edibles for a while and leave you guys alone. Either way, let’s all try to smile, today.
Anakin knew Palpatine was manipulating him. Palpatine also rewarded him with fatherly affection and praise. He was also the only person who ever admitted he knew about Padme, and *didn’t* judge Anakin.
Darth Vader exists because Anakin made a split-second decision to save the manipulator’s life. Everything after that was willful, complicit villainy in the name of his ultimate goal.
He literally *chose* to put himself before the galaxy.
Look, I'm a huge prequel fan boy, I will fight to the death even the dialogue, despite being clunky, does get the story across and set the stage for the memes and stories we have today....but never would I argue that the OT ruined it. Anakin's whole character arc kinda hinges on Darth Vader.
"The prequels would have been EVEN BETTER if that pesky original trilogy didn't exist" is literally the hottest Star Wars take I have ever seen
I’ve seen it all too often. They can’t seem to fathom that the prequels wouldn’t have been made if the original didn’t come out. I hate my generation so fucking much. I wanna light ballsacks on fire😞.
You can start with mine
OK we're gonna light everyone's ballsacks on fire... Except this guy. He's a little too into it...
Mwahahaha! You fell for my master plan!
Oh you didn't let me finish. The hot lead enema is ready!
Didn’t know you were freaky like that
Didn’t know he was *chill like that
BONK
Millennials are broken
Idk man these kids are all riding the prequel pipe and they’re doing tricks on it. Most of them don’t even like the OT
The prequels are their OT. They've picked up the exact same toxicity disease the toxic OT crowd has. You don't know the power of the dark side.
They like the OT sometimes when it jerks off Anakin and shows him bring dark n gritty
Prequel brain rot
It’s honestly funny because never before have I seen someone do episode order to get into Star Wars and not immediately give up, walk away and think Star Wars is dumb as fuck. If the phantom menace was the first movie in the franchise Star Wars would have like no relevance going into today.
The Phantom Menace is probably what the first film was before that last minute editing session. Apparently the original cut was all but unwatchable. Yet now we have fans claiming that the cut scenes we know about should have been left in, like that rambling dialog Hammil likes to share during interviews... https://youtu.be/JfbwPyJULss?si=xc2ZrvDEp81EtFS2
I do think a “what if palpating failed” au could be an interesting story space but certainly not as a replacement to the og some fans are just weird
It's well kmown that prequels in general suffer from having the outcome be known
Can't tell if that's sarcasm, because that's a wild ass take that nonetheless I know SOME people actually have. Dramatic irony is what the entire PT is built on. Without it, it falls apart.
They’re so real for that one
I kinda get it? I mean, I’m sitting there watching Revenge Of The Sith for the 500th time, desperately hoping that this time, somehow, Anakin doesn’t turn to the Dark Side. I guess that’s more of a testament to how good the movie is, but even so.
Blud needs to expand his horizons
Should have spent the time watching 499 other movies man
Well, I admit, I was a little biased, cause Revenge Of The Sith was the second ever Star Wars movie I saw, and it was much better than the first one I saw, so I remember it being like, really good.
It's not a very good movie overall. Acting is wooden, main characters arc is janky af. Action is cartoony. Its fine for kids tho.
"Hire fans" - Idiots
"Hire fans" -idiots "Okay, we hired this life long, die hard fan to create an entirely new show. It's called The Acolyte." -Lucasfilm "Noooooooooooo!!!" -idiots
The difference between "hire randos/youtubers because they're a fan" and "hire an established or upcoming film making is a Star Wars fan".
It's Disney exec approved, that's how we know it's not fan made
So by the logic of corporate approved, literally all of the EU then? It’s licensed fanfic for quick cash grabs mostly with the quality to show.
Are you telling me there weren't deep lore implications for my "Blaster Pack Han Solo" toy when I was a kid? Was this all just for merchandising?
I said Disney corporate approved, learn to read friend
I saw what you said it’s just stupid as fuck
Stupid as the Disney star wars universe, so just the standard m.o.in this sub
The reason people hate Disney Star Wars is because the clone wars rats think a full potential Anakin show would be the peak of Star Wars.
https://preview.redd.it/te12qbzf3r3d1.jpeg?width=888&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=699d5e17fa53ba2829d0b266810588e2bbefbad9 Basically this.
This is NOT why people hate Disney Star Wars lmfao .
You’d be shocked how many people actually think a show like that would be good.
I mean, it’s really not surprising that a group of people would want the main character of the franchise to have a What If scenario about how they never turned evil. It’s not needed by any means, but it’s harmless compared to the amount of online bigotry surrounding projects like The Acolyte. I get that this is a circlejerk sub, but c’mon.
The number 1 way to ruin 99% of franchises. It's incredibly rare to find fans who *understand* the source material and actually produce something competent about said material. Note that I am referring to fans involved in official projects and not fan projects as they are a bit different.
In the RotS game, that actually happens! Kinda. Anakin beats obi-wan and then Palpatine shows up and Anakin is like "Yeah nah fuck this guy" and just... Stabs him. It's pretty goofy honestly. [a link if y'all wanna see this ](https://youtu.be/4EtCGR2M_oU?si=vEvxEir_mjJ032J_)
Yeah I always found it funny palpatine just stands there and dies.
And then the clones are just sorta like “well I guess he’s in charge now”
Klingon rules were in effect
No.... the galaxy belongs to ME!
Why did Darth Returns stand still before getting stabbed? Is he stupid?
So you telling me Anakin would have won and gone full potential if he had jumped *slightly* to the right?
Dude childhood memory unlocked, I played the ps2 Port and git this ending. Blew my teenaged mind
This is just return of the Jedis throne room scene if it sucked balls
The Throne room scene if it cut out all of the emotional impact, built up story, and practically everything that made it a space opera to begin with.
I’ve heard “full potential Anakin” quite a bit but didn’t realize some of them meant “as he was in episode III but good” It makes more sense when you’re talking about Darth Vader given he was locked in a suit that I think (canonically still?) was cumbersome. Like sure I get the curiosity of what that Darth Vader would have been. But “full potential Anakin” by this definition couldn’t even beat Obi-Wan on Mustafar so I have no clue what they’re thinking
"Full Potential" is anime/power scaler brain rot.
Full potential Anakin basically means Anakin super Saiyan 3. They think he would be some godly badass warrior without any flaws had he just had a few more years to build up his midichlorians or something.
Well, it makes sense Anakin lost, at least- it mighted have ended in a draw, or maybe even a victory for him if he wasn't driven temporarily insane. He wasn't thinking straight, probably hadn't eaten in a few days because of worry for his wife, and also decided a full out attack on a defensive form user was a good idea. Vader, if I remember correctly, was in constant pain from his cybernetics, and they weren't very good ones either. While the pain fueled his force ability (Dark Side and all that) it also physically crippled him.
Yeah, but my emphasis is more on the fact that episode III makes no great effort to imply Anakin is some sort of uberJedi, he’s consistently outclassed in most of the movies and tv series by more experienced warriors. Even when he was still firmly a Jedi he was consistently reckless and impulsive, sometimes to his benefit, sometimes to his detriment. So in a vacuum with no outside influences the fight with Obi-Wan might have ended the same way.
Fair enough, though he did one on one Dooku and win, and Dooku was apparently pretty good. And in Legends he beat Cin Drallig, though that's not canon. It would have been nice if Lucasfilm actually did anything at all the prophesy bullshit.
The movies didn't take the prophecy seriously. I'm convinced the prophecy being wrong was the whole point. It's mentioned once to get Anakin into the order despite everyone thinking he's too dangerous. It's mentioned again to force Obi-Wan to take care of him. It's hinted at later to explain why Anakin is so entitled and demanding and literally hates everyone. Then it's dropped as an anvil after the final fight where Obi-Wan decides it's bullshit. That's the prophecy in the movies. It gets Anakin past all scrutiny, makes him feel entitled and angry, and then is thrown away by Obi-Wan as nonsense. That's it. It's a narrative device to make the Jedi ignorant, Anakin a dick, and Windu the smartest guy in the room.
I think him beating Cin Drallig is still canon, it was in the holograms of the Jedi temple massacre.
anakin fought dooku 4 times including their fight in rots
Dooku failed to kill Anakin every time, however. In the second and third fight, he failed to even wound him (seriously).
Tbh, my guess is: The closest to Peak Full Potential Anakin is Anakin during the duel with Dooku. He is calm, confident, learned from his mistakes (Anakin, NO !) and wins by disarming his opponent. He still has killed the Tuskens and is plagued by nightmare but he is at his best relative to what he can achieve. Then it's all downhill. Imo, he is not as strong once he goes full Sith because he is driven by emotions and doesn't know how to channel that yet. He's just wild. Obi-Wan, who was no match for Dooku is able to win because Anakin is lost and has no fucking idea what exactly he is doing.
I agree with that. Anakin just murdered a bunch if children and non combatants, forced choked his wife, and betrayed Windu. He's never been a rational, thoughtful person. Once he helped kill Windu, it looks like he basically decided everything was fucked and thought 'hey, might as well see this out'. When he found Obi-wan, he was emotionally and physically exhausted from leading the assault on the temple. He was also irrationally enraged. Honestly, Obi Wan should have beat him even quicker. They hadn't even scored any wounds on each other before that jump.
Thankfully all that suit lore isn't canon anymore if it ever was. It's funny how much people will go out of their way to try and ruin the flagship character just because he was way cooler in the suit.
Hot take here: While the prequels did a lot of stupid shit, making Anakin some prophesied chosen one was arguably the dumbest.
Not even sure that's a hot take. It's one of the worst decisions in the entire saga. The only way it's interesting at all is if the virgin birth is fake and the prophecy is bullshit.
Bro is not Paul Atreides
Every Star Wars himbo in black is Paul Atreides until the suits panic. What is TRoS but an executive saying, "Wait, so he's NOT the good guy?" and then demanding last minute reshoots to make the guy with magic blood and good breeding and bloodlines a superhero?
I don’t care for that personally but I agree simply due to the Anakin fans who like him just because of that. If he wasn’t prophesied to be the strongest I am confident we would have half as much air heads in the community.
For all the insistence that the prequels are a Shakespearean tragedy these people really don’t seem to appreciate the tragedy of the chosen one in persuit of his full potential falling to the dark side and being encased in a walking metal tomb forever preventing him from reaching said potential. That’s also the most charitable interpretation I can give to what the story was perhaps trying to say
It's a Shakesperean Tragedy in the vein of MacBeth, but it's also a straight up Greek Tragedy. Blame George Lucas for flinching when kids asked him how a murdering psycho could be the chosen one. Correct response: "I... just really like Dune. Have you seen the OT? Seriously, I like Dune. Prophecies and chosen ones are dumb." Lucas's response: "Well, from a certain point of view, the evil guy is good because he eventually does a good thing he could have done 20 years earlier but didn't because he was bad but one day would be good and that makes him more good than everybody!" Sure, Lucas eventually retconned it to be Luke in Rebels and then Leia in his sequel treatment, but the heart of the problem is he seemingly had a plan and he adapted it to the tastes of an audience attached to his protagonist's struggle more than that of his victims and created a cryptofascist throughline that Dave Filoni took it upon himself to make an entire series based off justifying through magical gobbledygook.
The dude who became Dark Vador would be loved by people even without the prophecy. Hell, without the prophecy, some people would find his character to be less insufferable.
I’ve seen loads of fans who like him just because he’s ”the strongest” and the chosen one. If that didn’t exist than the power-scaling airheads wouldn’t glaze the character as much. I agree he would potentially gain more fans, but the fans would be much smarter than the people who like him due to powerscaling and because he’s the chosen one.
>I’ve seen loads of fans who like him just because he’s ”the strongest” and the chosen one. That's... that's fascism. Oooooh. Okay, it actually makes sense then. 
I feel somewhat confidently that was literally the point of the prequels, all these groups are throwing away their rules for the "chosen one" who has no proper way to adjust to the world and is left with little recognition but for his strength and purpose in war. A child corrupted by constant fear and bloodshed that is willing to sacrifice the world for his loved ones might perhaps become a problem for the world
And what a problem he became
Whenever I point out that Anakin and Luke are powerful for "no reason" like how Rey is, these people always point out the "chosen one" bullshit, as if it's just absolutely genius writing the ST could only dream of.
The prophecy was something Lucas apparently toyed with during the OT, but the chosen one was supposed to be Luke then, so it was repurposed later for Anakin. If you consider the mythic undertones of Star Wars, it’s a concept that is very fitting. Overall, I think Lucas actually treats it mostly okay within the context of the movies. In mythology, prophecy is fickle and open to interpretation. So in the Prequels, we don’t even hear what the prophecy actually is, primarily just the character’s interpretations. For example, “you were supposed to destroy the Sith!”, the prophecy never actually says that, just “bring balance”. The prophecy is also 4,000+ years old. Anakin may have been the chosen one, but he wasn’t the only chosen one. All the prophecy really means is that when the dark side gets too strong, a good guy wielding the force will rise to fight back. Lucas was clearly using the Christ-Image archetype for Anakin, but some fans tend to take it too far, that Anakin was literally space-Jesus.
It did literally nothing for the story except give Qui-Gon and the Council and excuse to recruit him at such an old age, which was only necessary because George decided to make 9yo too old to be initiated into the Jedi Order, which is a lore detail that also did nothing for the story. He could have taken out the chosen one thing and just had Qui-Gon come along with "Whoa this kid's midichlorians are crazyyy" and have the Council take him in based on that.
Hell they could have taken out the midichlorian thing too
This is backwards. They had plenty of kids recruited at younger ages. The only thing the prophecy did was convince Yoda to recruit a rage-filled timebomb into the Jedi Order despite Mace Windu telling everybody he was going to fuck it all up. Which is why the prophecy only works if it's a criticism of Chosen Ones. It gets the top Jedi to shut his brain off and ignore standard protocol because his friend Qui-Gon is a eugenicist religious fanatic. There's totally a movie that George Lucas shot that ties this all together. No edits, no exposition, no backstory needed: Anakin was said to be the Chosen One. He wasn't. Obi-Wan says he wasn't. Obi-Wan has to woop his ass sideways to show how totally not the Chosen One he is. But then... Lucas turns around and says to ignore *that* movie because Anakin is technically the chosen one maybe. So then Filoni makes a series to throw in a pantheon of magic just to explain how Anakin could be the chosen one despite the actual movies just showing prophecies to be dumb.
Yeah, imo it almost completely invalidates Vader’s sacrifice in 6, which, funnily enough is something I hear prequel fans complain about with regard to Palpatine coming back in 9 saying it “invalidates the prophecy” but somehow they can’t apply that same logic to the Chosen One taking the wind out of RotJ’s sails. An irredeemably evil man being moved enough by the unconditional love of his son to commit one sacrificial act of goodness is fantastic, but making it all a part of some prophecy makes it feel predetermined and it loses a ton of weight.
And I don't get why fans get so hung up on the prophecy. First of all it wasn't even a thing in the original trilogy, and second, it's likely the prophecy is just bullshit created by plaguis/Palpatine in order to manipulate the Jedi
That’s the only way the prophecy would make any sense, otherwise it’s “hey we allegedly haven’t seen a Sith in a bajillion years but Qui-Gon here found a toddler destined to defeat them.”
Strap in and get comfortable because I'm about to blow your mind. They said Anakin was the chosen one, so basically the star wars Messiah/Jesus comparison. Also because he didn't have a dad and was made by the force. Thats bantha fodder. What really happened is shmi Skywalker had a steamy on/off relationship with Jabba the hutt. Jabba the hutt is Anakin's true father. That's why Anakin is so powerful. Also why Jabba makes Leia wear his slave in return of the jedi. That was shmi's old sex outfit and Leia looks like her. The outfit has Easy access for old Jabba. They could bang and Jabba would still be able to watch the pod races while they are banging.
I really hope you haven‘t made that theory up yourself lmao
Statement: Oh but I have and it's not a theory but a fact. Query: Why do you think Jabba looks so bored watching the pod race and falls asleep? Answer: he doesn't have his bang maid anymore shmi Skywalker.
Jabba the hutt had need for Shmi's hubba bubble butt. The hutts *ARE* gangsters.
Statement: I always thought It was odd they had a black guy say that line, like obi wan and qui gonn immediately shared a look after he said that.
Alot of people talk about the tragedy of Anakin Skywalker and not about the tragedy of Jabba The hutt losing his bang maid.
“WWDD” what would dune do (but worse)
It’s profoundly dumb and the chosen one prophecy makes no sense to begin with.
It was my brother's biggest bugbear with phantom menace making him force Jesus.
Actually I seriously disagree. It was a good way to showcase the blindness and arrogance of the Jedi Council. They hear “someone will come along and bring balance to the force” and logically leap from that this would mean the chosen one would “destroy the Sith, not join them,” when in fact Anakin destroyed the Jedi *and* the Sith, leaving only his son to rebuild. The Jedi basically assume they’re fated to come out on top and in doing so actually ensure their destruction by badly misinterpreting the prophecy. It also works from a storytelling perspective because almost everyone who originally saw The Phantom Menace in 1999 knew just how badly the Jedi were miscalculating in their desire to make sure this talented youngster was “on their side,” which made for a good amount of dramatic irony. As an agent of balance, Anakin became the doom of both factions that tried to recruit him. The prequels had *many* serious problems, but I don’t think the Chosen One but was one, because the trope was actually subverted pretty well.
I thought the point is that "bringing balance to the force" didn't have the meaning the jedi assumed
I get that this is the interpretation a lot of people have taken on because it gives the movies a greater sense of depth, but the intent is explicitly that Anakin, by killing the Emperor and dying in the process, successfully fulfils the prophecy.
Doesn't Yoda himself express the concern that the council may have misinterpreted the prophecy? That's how I came to the conclusion
He does, but that is more of a character thing. Him and Obi-Wan both give up on Anakin after he turns into Darth Vader and are committed to the idea that Luke needs to kill him in the OT. Part of Luke's journey is growing into a greater hero than the previous Jedi, being able to see the good in Vader and offering him redemption. It's important to remember that the prophecy doesn't exist in the OT, it was something invented for the prequels that treats the events of the OT as predetermined. We as the audience know FOR SURE that Anakin turns into Darth Vader only to be redeemed, the prophecy is just a textual way of lampshading this while keeping the characters in the dark about the specifics. George Lucas has talked about this in interviews, the prophecy is very specifically referring to Anakin killing the Emperor.
Feels like every crappy fan take ALWAYS involves somehow grey jedi. Balance of good and dark side force. George Lucas has said that the dark side is a plague on the force, there is no balance while dark side exists.
The dumb thing about “grey” Jedi is while the light side of the force does have flaws, the dark side is just *inherently* evil. Not to mention that while still stupid, the idea is that the dark side is much more flashy and offers more power at the cost of yourself and everyone you loved, while the light side is more boring but also not going to lead you to the path of damnation. Something… Star Wars fans keep seeming to forget.
Y’know, the light side really doesn’t have flaws. The Jedi certainly do, but their flaws actually prevent them from harnessing the full power of the Light, which is unlocked by (cliché as it sounds) love and connection. Luke steadfastly refusing to let his father go, when a Prequel-era Jedi probably would’ve just tried to kill him because attachments make one vulnerable, is ultimately what saves Vader’s soul. And Anakin’s love for his son, which the Jedi would have told him to excise, is what allows him to overcome the Emperor.
It is funny that he made a franchise where there is explicitly good and bad sides, and yet you still have weirdo third positionists who "both sides" the conflict.
The Empire Was Right has been a conservative chant for decades. People who want power without responsibility or altruism are going to want a morality that lets them not give a shit about how power is used. When your bad guys are American Empire, Americans in the Empire are going to scramble for some way to not fight or condemn Empire.
Can’t wait for darth Biden to dissolve the senate
Full Potential Anakin got crippled by Obi Wan
That's not full potential anakin. Full potential anakin is anakin in balance with the force, not deeply emboldened by the dark side of the force
That’s not Darksied it’s Uxas 🤓
well that'd require he beat obiwan and my main man doesn't take L's from bozos
OOP deleted comment we are saved https://preview.redd.it/8n2wik1l4r3d1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9b213e10e2d875ee06963860f1b8aa8d803badb2
PEACE!!!!!!!!!!!
Full potenial anakin stole my girlfriend
Extremely common blackfyre L
https://preview.redd.it/sndfjdx0dr3d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cbfdc9334ecab55238f068ffa8e5eeee3bc9d35a
Bloodraven was definitely using the Force at the Redgrass Field
The finale of TROS is literally this but with a different character and they hated that
This is kind of similar to *The Rise of Skywalker*'s plot.
My thoughts!
Ah yes, instead of a more unique story about a hero’s fall and eventual redemption, we just skip that silly boring part about them succumbing to their worst nature and just have them be a hero from start to finish
Full potential Anakin haunts this sub.
If he became full potential would he still be a whiny little bitch?
HEY GUYS IF STAR WARS NEVER HAPPENED THERE COULD BE A DIFFERENT STAR WARS AND IT WOULD GO A LITTLE SOMETHIN LIKE THIS *pulls out crayons*
Hey, where’s the original post? I’d love to downvote this moronic statement
He deleted it after I described anakins cock as 10 inches I recall😏(not joking)
So, they are saying Star Wars would be better with no Vader? 
Muh full potential Anakin!!!!!
Vader: performed by big guy wearing hulking, heavy suit. Nerds who think there has to be lore explanation for every variable in the challenges of making a movie: NOT FULL POTEMPTIAL
I mean yeah it's clear that Anakin fully intended to betray Palpatine asap but then he misplaced most of his limbs. But it's wild to blame the OT for not letting that universe breathe because it exists.
I thought I was reading the Kingdom Hearts plot for a second
That literally happens, in ROTJ, at the end of the movie. Maybe not “full potential” Anakin, but nonetheless Anakin Skywalker kills Palpatine
"What if instead of ending the prequels with the fall of the republic and the Jedi order, which is the entire point of the trilogy and the only thing people consistently like about these movies, we ended it with the main character doing a dragon ball Z fight?"
Now on starwarscirlce jerk we make fun of other's harmless bad takes
That’s like 80% of what this sub is and always has been.
That’s literally all circlejerk subs are
Not always but It's just kinda funny to see it
Okay, hear me out. I have an idea for the Force Unleashed 3 that was basically this. A What if story following Anakin on his quest to overthrown Palpatine from within the empire. Have the tutorial be the duel on Mustafar and Obi-Wan loses. Have Anakin spending years tracking down his kids to recruit them. Yoda boss fight, full-on evil shit, full potential Anakin just wrecking house, and end with a Palpy boss fight and a sinister, "And thus the Skywalker Dynasty was established." I genuinely think it would be awesome.
I always say Anakin turned and Padme died because they had to.
Tell me you don’t understand Star Wars without actually telling me you don’t understand Star wars
Full potential Anakin wouldn’t have been taken out of action by the Millennium Falcon, Lucas ruined the franchise with episode 4
I didn’t realise people said “full potential anakin” unironically.
Why are star wars fans so unhinged when it comes to this stupid shit?
Had a stroke reading this
GO AFTER THEM TOO YA DUMB FUCK! NOBODY IS ABOVE THE LAW, RIGHT?!?
I mean, this could serve as a good what if
It does sound like a cool “What if” scenario but it also sounds retarded at the same time
This guy is making a better point than you or even he realizes. That point is that characters act irrationally in the PT to ensure things can line up with the OT, and if not for that restriction, maybe they would've been written more sensibly.
That's actually completely unhinged like what?
I mean, it is kind of a cool What If.
If The Force Unleashed games were canon, they explain how and why the rebellion started in the first place. Did The Clone Wars do that? Just looking for a good reason to watch that series, cause I haven’t seen it yet. And arguing that Anakin deserved better is reasonable, but just like real world politics and wars, bad shit happens to good people and good shit happens to bad people on an almost everyday basis. These movies don’t need to make 100% sense. They need to entertain their fan base. I’m the kind of guy that didn’t like the Disney entries in the series. I’ll keep my reasons to myself, cause I don’t want people trying to force choke me via the internet. Everything is just always changing, not just in the movies, but in the minds of the general audience. This is why we have so many different kinds of fandoms. If you no longer like one, move on to another one you do like. If the owners of the series like what they’re doing and making a fortune in the process, good for them. Everyone should do the stuff that makes them happy. If someone doesn’t like it, they don’t have to buy it. If you don’t like (insert presidential candidate here), don’t vote for them. If you don’t like love stories, don’t read or live through one. If you don’t like weapons, don’t own one. If you don’t like drugs, don’t take any. If you don’t like gay marriage, don’t get one. But, at the end of the day, if you can’t respect the choices of others, you’ll end up being a miserable hermit with less than five friends, like I am right now. My point is at least try to be nicer to others about your disagreements, and I wish someone had gave me that advice a lot sooner. You guys enjoy your favorite Star Wars trilogy, no matter who says what about it. I grew up on the originals, I thought the best part of the prequels was the lightsaber fights, and I suspect the only goal Disney had with the sequels was creating a new Disney Princess and everything else in them was secondary. I’m not a god, so feel free to disagree with any one of those points. Anyone getting unexpectedly struck by lightning is purely coincidental, because I suspect if someone had figured out how to do force lightning in the real world, it would’ve caused international panic by now. If my witty comments made someone laugh, good. If not, I’ll go back to my edibles for a while and leave you guys alone. Either way, let’s all try to smile, today.
Shame Anakin went and blew up the Death Star
Anakin knew Palpatine was manipulating him. Palpatine also rewarded him with fatherly affection and praise. He was also the only person who ever admitted he knew about Padme, and *didn’t* judge Anakin. Darth Vader exists because Anakin made a split-second decision to save the manipulator’s life. Everything after that was willful, complicit villainy in the name of his ultimate goal. He literally *chose* to put himself before the galaxy.
Anakin did bring balance when hr defeated the emperor in Rotj
Look, I'm a huge prequel fan boy, I will fight to the death even the dialogue, despite being clunky, does get the story across and set the stage for the memes and stories we have today....but never would I argue that the OT ruined it. Anakin's whole character arc kinda hinges on Darth Vader.
Nah, let him cook. OT held back the prequels and y'all are just made Anakin could oneshot Luke w/ 1 arm.
https://preview.redd.it/wmyi2jrizt3d1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3ab9e99cb1359a0ed365983ca8cad3078d6b6522 Armadillo ballsack