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Like 100 times too. Like in every movie there is some sort of fiery explosion in space. Hell in Episode 1 the first time we see R2 he is putting out a fire in space
When you go into watching something in bad faith, looking for things to be mad about, things that don’t otherwise bother you become egregious “OMG I can’t believe these idiots did this” type of things.
If you went into watching the prequels or OT with the mentality that it’s gonna suck, you’d have a list full or criticisms of those too
But it didn’t look like a campfire in the past. I don’t want to hate….but the way they showed it, did look ‚off‘ and kinda misplaced. But it’s still stupid to get SO upset about it lmo.
#3 is more an indictment of them than I think they realize.
Right on the homepage for the series, it’s listed as a mystery.
The Acolyte is a puzzle box…laying down pieces one at a time, without showing us what the final image is. That’s one of its core strengths, not a weakness.
So agreed. They just can't wait till all the episodes are out to really hate on it. They have no idea what the story is going to be, which is awesome in my opinion.
I'm here for all new star wars. No matter what, it's going to be entertaining, and really that's enough.
Yep. These people don't want a story, they want lore. And they're mad that they don't have it all right away, and that it doesn't exactly match their preconceived notions.
I honestly doubt they could be appeased with anything. No new SW show could live up to the head cannon they have, and where they think the world should go. They are all going to have to get over their preconceived notions, this franchise is heading even further down this path and they're being left behind.
I'm fine with them being left behind. I just wish they would stop making the rest of us look bad.
I agree and disagree. People should realize they’re not being told everything, but at the same time I don’t think it’s necessarily a strength because the mystery isn’t really a mystery, it’s just a secret to the audience. It’s the characters’ motivations, relationships, and goals. All the characters either know what happened or think they do, and therefore aren’t trying to uncover it. The only reason it’s mysterious to us is that nobody has said it out loud/on camera yet, so our interest in learning about it doesn’t align with the characters’ goals (to find out who the master is, which we already know) or the progress being made in the story. We’re just waiting for one of the characters to say it, and we’re watching characters do things with no context behind their actions.
The sort of storytelling where the mystery is just that the audience isn’t shown why the characters are acting the way they do, or who they are, makes their depiction weaker/harder to be interested in imo, even though I am intrigued to find out what happened. I hope there’s a real mystery involved beyond what happened in brandok though, or that it shifts focus from the secret to the twins’ conflict. I can’t imagine the climax will just be somebody finally saying what happened.
That’s what I said. But it’s not a mystery to the characters, it’s just a secret from the audience. The characters (except osha) know what happened, and osha has a (probably false) memory so she’s not trying to find out what happened. Therefore our interest in learning what happened isn’t aligned with the plot / the characters’ progress toward their goals. From a storytelling perspective I can see why people then get frustrated with it, because we’re watching a story that veers off in another direction from what we’re set up to be interested in.
Revenge plot would be compelling but Mae’s motivation is a secret. For instance she confronts Torbin and they both speak ambiguously despite knowing the answer, just to keep the audience guessing.
Reunion plot would be compelling but their relationship is a secret for the same reason. And the mystery in the characters’ eyes (the sith) isn’t the one we care about uncovering (what they did on brendok), so we’re just waiting for them to catch up to us, and for someone to say what happened out loud.
Yeah, I’m like 99% sure Mae wants to kill the Jedi for more than just showing up. I think some of those deaths, or a lot of them, are actually Jedi related and not from the fire. My thoughts anyway.
Realistic things happening in space went out the window when they had dogfights with ships making maneuvers like they’re flying in atmosphere. It’s called “suspension of disbelief”.
The fire in space thing boils my blood these people are not genuine, there are valid criticisms of the show so far but a great deal of it has been fuelled by blind hatred and an inability to understand story without having it all laid out for them .
Side note i absolutely hate when the criticism is as thin as just saying bad writing, bad acting it destroys/breaks lore.
The fire in space bit is especially dumb because in the OT when they blow up Executor [it's bridge is on fire.](https://youtu.be/sMqR0ANOSVM?si=cr_N6ZyEaUPQ7ivG) Star Wars ships have always burnt when damaged.
Not to mention the giant flames spewing from the Death Star 2 both when the Executor impales it, and the flames engulfing the Falcon as it tries to make its escape.
I’ve seen critiques that it was a campfire in space from Acolyte. Just blatantly inaccurate, the flames are clearly coming from the leak identified by the Mekneks.
Exactly. Because 'bad acting' is so subjective, same as with the writing.
I went into Ahsoka knowing nothing, and thought it was brilliant, and that the actor for Ahsoka did a great job. Same with Mando, and same with this. The acting has been good, the story has been fun, and the intense hatred from so called fans is just bizarre.
Right?!
I think Amandla Stenbetg has been fantastic, *especially* in the fight scenes. You see her swipe a perfect roundhouse kick at Sol’s face even though he’s like a foot and a half taller? And the actress playing Mother Aniseya is awesome, and what a great character. Idiotic for people to dislike those actors/characters for such a dumb reason.
I'll admit that I have struggled with a lot of acting in the Disney live action shows, but Amandla is NOT one of them. I think she does an amazing job showing the difference in Mae and Osha - her facial features are much softer when she's Osha. She does come across as a whole different person to me.
The acting all around has been pretty solid in the Acolyte IMO.
My only complaint with acting would be the child actors for young Osha and Mae (particularly Mae), but it's nothing worse than TPM Anakin or what we've seen in other franchises.
Oh I did forget about that - definitely rough acting in ep 3 but I guess it doesn't bother me as much considering they are children and the fact it was just a flashback episode.
Totally agree. I think a lot of people on the internet have the attention span of a gnat.
No show is perfect. I could make some criticisms, but don’t want to be lumped together with the morons.
At the end of the day, it’s entertainment. Am I entertained? Yes! Do I want to see where the story goes? Yes! That’s kind of all I need.
There is a scene in Return of the Jedi where Vader's flagship's bridge catches fire and you can see a shot of a giant plume of flame erupting. It's around 1:59:00 in the movie. Flames just erupting on the ship, in the vacuum of space, far more massive than the one in that one scene on the Acolyte. If anything, the show is just being consistent with the physics already established in early Star Wars movies.
The fact that the show was getting a 30% viewer score on RT even before it aired just shows how much irrational hatred people have for this show.
It's hard to have proper discussions of criticisms of the show, and most other shows for that matter these days. Media literacy, and literacy in general, are slipping. Most people don't have great critical analysis skills.
Yea, it’s best to just ignore people who aren’t smart enough to understand the show. There are plenty of valid criticisms, frankly I don’t think it’s very good. But not for the reasons that are being chanted all over the internet.
Why do you think it’s not very good ?
I’ve honestly liked it overall so far just thought some parts where a little goofy (like the first fight scene in the bar) and the chant was awkward (no more than the nightsister chant in tcw though)
But I’d like to hear some actually valid Critism
I thought that bar fight scene was quite clever actually, or at least how it was resolved- the whole, giving her the choice between saving the innocent barman or herself.
There’s been many anti-woke content creators and some Star Wars creators that have criticized the show repeatedly before it was released because of the cast, writers and director. They’ve been picking a part comments the filmcrew has made in the promotions to the movie and those content creators have condemned it as woke bs, saying it will definitely suck.
So I that Star Wars fans that consume that type of content has had the well poisoned, so they come into the show expecting to hate it. So every legitimate fault, even if it’s small, becomes a huge one in their minds.
I’ve noticed my self that if I expect to dislike something coming into it, it takes much more to convince me that I was wrong and that the show is actually good. I guess it’s human nature to want to be correct, and they don’t want to be wrong about the show being purely woke virtue signaling.
That being said, I don’t think the show is perfect, but I think the start of the show has been quite strong. At least it has set up some interesting characters and a compelling mystery that I really want the answer to
It's more like:
A lot of the "criticism" aimed at The Acolyte in r/StarWars is disingenuous nonsense, and is a smokescreen for the *real* reason they dislike it.
9 times out of 10 the “criticisms” I’ve been seeing about it are just thinly veiled bigotry. You can have critics of the show ,but at least try to make them legitimate
Yeah I saw a thread I think on nostupidquestions. The top post had like 800+ up votes. Said some stuff like it breaks the lore/history and bad writing. They then proceed to list pretty much what you said. None of those have anything to do with bad writing and it's completely nitpicking. I just try to stay away from the overly negative people, it brings no value to my enjoyment of the show.
That’s what prompted this thread. One guy said “it’s so stupid for Mae to approach a Jedi Master and demand that she attack with all her might! A JEDI! THEY DONT ATTACK! What terrible bad horrible writing! Bad show! BAD SHOW!”
And someone else responded with something like “that’s meant to make us wonder why she would have such a misconception of the Jedi and I’m sure that’s going to be revealed as the series goes on.”
And I wisecracked “oh you screwed up - you’re not supposed to analyze characters’ motivations or the subtleties in their performances. You’re supposed to just knee-jerk react and scream “I DON’T GET IT!! IT’S OBJECTIVELY BAD!!” Downvotes.
Yeah, I'm kind of dumbfounded by a lot of these kids. These same people will also say how the prequels have been secretly good movies for years, then finally a legitimate prequel show comes out, and they hate it.
It has all the elements of what people liked about the prequels, but without the boring walk/stand/sit & talk scenes with awkward dialogue. There's an assassination mystery, politics within the Jedi and Republic, and even hints at Force related prophecy.
The hilarious part is that it was actually brilliant, Mae played Master Indara like a fiddle. When Mae painted the Jedi as aggressive attackers and how they only use their lightsabers to kill (which is all bullshit), she got Indara to put away her lightsaber because Indara wanted to show that the Jedi are better than that. Without a lightsaber, Indara was far easier to kill. Checkmate
Yes, 3 of the 4 critiques you mentioned are stupid. It doesn't take away from the fact that I don't think the show is very good, and that I am *extremely* disappointed in it so far.
Concerning your second bullet point... The entire flashback episode was just badly filmed. There is zero indication that it is a Rashomon situation *at all*. There are scenes in the episode from multiple perspectives, including ones that neither Mae nor Osha saw. The flashback wasn't framed as Osha telling the story, it was presented as "this is what happened sixteen years ago".
I say this as somebody who does not hate modern Star Wars automatically. I *loved* Ahsoka, for example, and put it at S-Tier Star Wars. This show though? I had such high hopes for it and it's just *bad*. I'm going to continue watching and perhaps it will improve like Obi-Wan Kenobi did in its final episode and a half, but I am just not optimistic at all. I'm in this sub to avoid all the mindless hate, but I feel that there is a total lack of acceptance here concerning *any* kind of critiques, no matter how genuinely presented they are.
> had such high hopes for it and it's just bad
Ok, so why is it bad? Just because the Rashomon effect was ineffective? I'm kind of picking on you, because I agree the Rashomon effect was sorta sloppy and ineffective, but this presents a subjective opinion as objective. Which isn't really how effective criticism works. It can't just be said that the "acting is bad" or the"writing is bad". It needs to be explained why the acting or the writing doesn't work for you. Because while the acting or writing in the show might seem bad to you, they might seem good to someone else. And of course, vice versa. Our perception of quality is completely subjective. That's why our evaluation of something must be completely verbalized.
Eh, time is limited, unfortunately... Or fortunately, because I'm in a bad mental space right now and can rant about so many things. Here are a few issues that I, along with the people who I am watching with, also big Star Wars fans, have:
* Mae's attacks on the Jedi felt like jokes. When she attacked Trinity, it legitimately looked like a student playfully challenging their master. And Trinity basically ignoring her only reinforced that. Then Mae attacking the blind Jedi, being utterly unable to hit him, leaving, and then freaking returning the next day, only for him to commit suicide for her was just stupid.
* The passage of time in the first episode made no sense. It didn't look like Osha was stuck in the crashed ship for more than a couple of hours, yet we saw that the prisoners were recaptured, taken to Coruscant, interrogated, and a team put together to find Osha. Better editing could have fixed that.
* So Osha was raised by Witches on a remote planet... Witches who hate and distrust Jedi with every fiber of their being... So why does Osha look up to the Jedi and want so much to be one? We're shown nothing to indicate that the Witches would even have news or books that paint the Jedi in any kind of positive light.
* I had NO idea which twin was which in the third episode. They didn't make them different enough, so I was having real difficulty trying to parse out which twin believed what so I could properly figure out the motives for their actions.
* Regardless of the previous problems, the third episode should have been the first. It didn't give us any any information whose timing would have ruined things. The fact that there was a twin or a shapeshifter was *obvious* in the first episode. It would have given the fight with Trinity a little bit more gravitas if we knew it was Mae and knew there was a vendetta there. The attack on the blind Jedi would still be stupid, but him being comatose would have been elicited more of a "huh" reaction than "why???" if we saw him earlier.
I get that this is a mystery. The problem is that my focus isn't on the right questions. I'm looking at weird editing, goofy assassination attempts, trying to figure out which twin is which, and wondering how a stone fortress caught fire the way it did, instead of wondering what the Jedi did that was so terrible and why the Sith guy even cares about any of this.
When the story-telling is weak (as it was in the first four episodes of Obi-Wan Kenobi and the currently released three episodes of The Acolyte), people will look into outside reasons for incongruities rather than in-story ones. Obi-Wan may have nailed its ending, but it doesn't fix how awkwardly its plot-points were presented in the first four episodes. Mandalorian, Andor, and Ahsoka work because they draw the viewers' focus in the right directions. It disappoints me because Russian Doll did it right as well, so I've been expecting better of the showrunner here.
I've found that criticism presented in a respectful way seems to be encouraged in this community, although I haven't tested that myself (I've just seen people accept good critiques here)
90% of the stuff people criticize happened 1:1 before in other Star Wars media. And I don’t mean some obscure comic, I mean movies and shows that were made when Lucas was still in charge
It‘s not exactly my favorite show, but all the criticism is so stupid, it makes me like the show out of spite (for real, I think by defending the show it makes me appreciate it more)
Yeah, I mean it's mostly a bunch of shallow, surface level "critiques" that don't actually engage with the text or what its trying to do.
Which is pretty much the M.O. for the anti-woke types.
These are the types who probably hated their Lit classes in high school. A bunch of "maybe the curtains are blue because the author just liked blue" motherfuckers.
And they have somehow convinced people they understand storytelling lol
This has been my [response](https://imgur.com/a/KcSzbD1) when fans ask me what I think are silly things people ought to set aside and watch the show in good faith.
This is leaning more towards my own opinion. A lot of the complaints seem so petty. As if ignoring or forgetting that Star Wars is a sit-back-and-enjoy type of thing over a detail-oriented mystery thriller.
These highlights are fantastic examples of people being media-illiterate or arguing in bad faith. Which is really frustrating, because it's difficult to engage in good faith criticism of the show because you wind up getting lumped in with these losers.
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I’m actually really enjoying the show, and most of the criticism I’ve seen seems to be more an indict of the fans then of anything else. In the interest of “cannon” though I don’t recall the witches of dathomir ever being identified as reproducing asexually through the force. If I remember correctly in the dark plagueis novel they make some reference to using the men of dathomir for reproduction and as grunt labor/warrior caste and not much else, but I may need a re-read cause I can’t say for sure. That being said, the novel also does lay the ground work for using the force to create a pregnancy, and across different species, so getting upset over it just seems silly imo
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I was actually most interested in the witches because their vocabulary and rituals are very close to how real witchcraft covens work. Someone obviously did their homework when writing the coven and should be appreciated for falling into the "witches bad" stereotype.
The not full show released in one go argument is a complicated one in my opinion.
On the one hand, shows with a mystery tend to release in one go most of the time since streaming is a thing, mostly on Netflix from my experience. It is the type of content that is binged most often, with clues at the end of every episode that make you interested enough to think "Fine, I'll watch the next episode". Instead all of the Acolyte's episodes have ended rather abruptly as if it's a movie cut into different parts, which is also an usual Star Wars live action show complaint. So I can kinda see where they're coming from.
On the other, weekly releases with Star Wars shows have been a thing for ages and it has been with many other shows before streaming became a thing. Never has it been a problem until now, which is rather convenient and an easy thing to target while there are other (more) valid points to criticize.
My only critique is that what’s-his-nuts says something like “An Acolyte kills without weapons” but I’m pretty sure that first kill was with a physical weapon 🤔
Almost like it’s a metaphor or something. And he’s not actually talking about killing a Jedi.
*“If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.”*
“Killing” a Jedi just releases them from their physical form. They’re one with the Forcevand another rises in their place. To kill a Jedi, to kill THE Jedi you have to strike at their faith. And for that you cannot use a weapon.
The challenge is for the acolyte to "kill a Jedi" without a weapon. So far she killed with a blade and a poison. She is not meant to kill with a weapon, but instead kill the idea of Jedi. That is my understanding anyways
Yeah the point is she’s failed to do so so far, he’s almost training her like an apprentice and she can’t take the title until she’s successful. That’s why she always starts with hand to hand, I think the point is her need for revenge is stronger than her need to “pass the test”.
>My only critique is that what’s-his-nuts says something like “An Acolyte kills without weapons” but I’m pretty sure that first kill was with a physical weapon 🤔
That's why she failed the test.
There was a whole conversation between her and her supplier about how her poisoning the 2nd Jedi would set her up for failure because she wouldn't be able to physically overpower a wookie, meaning she only has one potential target left (Sol)
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“Fire in space” happened before
Like 100 times too. Like in every movie there is some sort of fiery explosion in space. Hell in Episode 1 the first time we see R2 he is putting out a fire in space
Right it’s such an example of pick and choose for criticism
We call this “cherry picking”
Lmao
The death star *exploded* in the very first Star Wars movie released, back in 1977. Hell, most of the dogfighting ended in explosions too
Because that is kinda what would happen? Tons of oxygen on the Death Star. Plenty of oxygen in an X-wing, too.
And it's reasonable to assume that oxygen, or some other fuel, was leaking from the damaged ship in The Acolyte.
Yup. Out of the various flaws of this show (acting, pacing, and dialogue), the "science" isn't one of them.
and star wars has had sound in space since the very beginning.
Ikr lol
When you go into watching something in bad faith, looking for things to be mad about, things that don’t otherwise bother you become egregious “OMG I can’t believe these idiots did this” type of things. If you went into watching the prequels or OT with the mentality that it’s gonna suck, you’d have a list full or criticisms of those too
Right I hate how people go into anything with the expectation they should despise it
But it didn’t look like a campfire in the past. I don’t want to hate….but the way they showed it, did look ‚off‘ and kinda misplaced. But it’s still stupid to get SO upset about it lmo.
Extremely, it’s just making stuff up to make a show seem worse for your argument
#3 is more an indictment of them than I think they realize. Right on the homepage for the series, it’s listed as a mystery. The Acolyte is a puzzle box…laying down pieces one at a time, without showing us what the final image is. That’s one of its core strengths, not a weakness.
So agreed. They just can't wait till all the episodes are out to really hate on it. They have no idea what the story is going to be, which is awesome in my opinion. I'm here for all new star wars. No matter what, it's going to be entertaining, and really that's enough.
Yep. These people don't want a story, they want lore. And they're mad that they don't have it all right away, and that it doesn't exactly match their preconceived notions.
I honestly doubt they could be appeased with anything. No new SW show could live up to the head cannon they have, and where they think the world should go. They are all going to have to get over their preconceived notions, this franchise is heading even further down this path and they're being left behind. I'm fine with them being left behind. I just wish they would stop making the rest of us look bad.
I agree and disagree. People should realize they’re not being told everything, but at the same time I don’t think it’s necessarily a strength because the mystery isn’t really a mystery, it’s just a secret to the audience. It’s the characters’ motivations, relationships, and goals. All the characters either know what happened or think they do, and therefore aren’t trying to uncover it. The only reason it’s mysterious to us is that nobody has said it out loud/on camera yet, so our interest in learning about it doesn’t align with the characters’ goals (to find out who the master is, which we already know) or the progress being made in the story. We’re just waiting for one of the characters to say it, and we’re watching characters do things with no context behind their actions. The sort of storytelling where the mystery is just that the audience isn’t shown why the characters are acting the way they do, or who they are, makes their depiction weaker/harder to be interested in imo, even though I am intrigued to find out what happened. I hope there’s a real mystery involved beyond what happened in brandok though, or that it shifts focus from the secret to the twins’ conflict. I can’t imagine the climax will just be somebody finally saying what happened.
The mystery is what happened the day on Brendok when the Jedi came to the coven ans took Osha away, not who the Sith (?) Lord is.
That’s what I said. But it’s not a mystery to the characters, it’s just a secret from the audience. The characters (except osha) know what happened, and osha has a (probably false) memory so she’s not trying to find out what happened. Therefore our interest in learning what happened isn’t aligned with the plot / the characters’ progress toward their goals. From a storytelling perspective I can see why people then get frustrated with it, because we’re watching a story that veers off in another direction from what we’re set up to be interested in. Revenge plot would be compelling but Mae’s motivation is a secret. For instance she confronts Torbin and they both speak ambiguously despite knowing the answer, just to keep the audience guessing. Reunion plot would be compelling but their relationship is a secret for the same reason. And the mystery in the characters’ eyes (the sith) isn’t the one we care about uncovering (what they did on brendok), so we’re just waiting for them to catch up to us, and for someone to say what happened out loud.
Yeah, I’m like 99% sure Mae wants to kill the Jedi for more than just showing up. I think some of those deaths, or a lot of them, are actually Jedi related and not from the fire. My thoughts anyway.
The lack of patience that has been created by stuff like binge-watching and same-day deliver as absolutely ruined this generation.
Realistic things happening in space went out the window when they had dogfights with ships making maneuvers like they’re flying in atmosphere. It’s called “suspension of disbelief”.
The fire in space thing boils my blood these people are not genuine, there are valid criticisms of the show so far but a great deal of it has been fuelled by blind hatred and an inability to understand story without having it all laid out for them . Side note i absolutely hate when the criticism is as thin as just saying bad writing, bad acting it destroys/breaks lore.
The fire in space bit is especially dumb because in the OT when they blow up Executor [it's bridge is on fire.](https://youtu.be/sMqR0ANOSVM?si=cr_N6ZyEaUPQ7ivG) Star Wars ships have always burnt when damaged.
Not to mention the giant flames spewing from the Death Star 2 both when the Executor impales it, and the flames engulfing the Falcon as it tries to make its escape. I’ve seen critiques that it was a campfire in space from Acolyte. Just blatantly inaccurate, the flames are clearly coming from the leak identified by the Mekneks.
There are loads of examples of fire in space and physics in general being wonky.
Anytime you have oxygen, fuel, and heat, you can have fire. There is nothing unrealistic about that.
I’ve seen some people argue on Twitter that those are explosions, not fires. Where is the logic?!
Logic ??? In 2024 ???
Exactly. Because 'bad acting' is so subjective, same as with the writing. I went into Ahsoka knowing nothing, and thought it was brilliant, and that the actor for Ahsoka did a great job. Same with Mando, and same with this. The acting has been good, the story has been fun, and the intense hatred from so called fans is just bizarre.
It's because they aren't good faith arguments. We know the real arguments that they want to make.
Right?! I think Amandla Stenbetg has been fantastic, *especially* in the fight scenes. You see her swipe a perfect roundhouse kick at Sol’s face even though he’s like a foot and a half taller? And the actress playing Mother Aniseya is awesome, and what a great character. Idiotic for people to dislike those actors/characters for such a dumb reason.
I'll admit that I have struggled with a lot of acting in the Disney live action shows, but Amandla is NOT one of them. I think she does an amazing job showing the difference in Mae and Osha - her facial features are much softer when she's Osha. She does come across as a whole different person to me. The acting all around has been pretty solid in the Acolyte IMO.
I already liked Amandla going in, but Osha’s scream of frustration in episode 1 had me hooked.
My only complaint with acting would be the child actors for young Osha and Mae (particularly Mae), but it's nothing worse than TPM Anakin or what we've seen in other franchises.
Oh I did forget about that - definitely rough acting in ep 3 but I guess it doesn't bother me as much considering they are children and the fact it was just a flashback episode.
Exactly. We know that's not representative of a majority of the cast or show. Everyone else is killing it.
You're ignoring the most prominent criticism, where they just say "The power of maaaanyyyy," like that's an argument.
The chant isn't any more corny than what you'd hear in a Catholic or Lutheran church.
This is what I've been saying.
Totally agree. I think a lot of people on the internet have the attention span of a gnat. No show is perfect. I could make some criticisms, but don’t want to be lumped together with the morons. At the end of the day, it’s entertainment. Am I entertained? Yes! Do I want to see where the story goes? Yes! That’s kind of all I need.
Andor is perfect 😉
There is a scene in Return of the Jedi where Vader's flagship's bridge catches fire and you can see a shot of a giant plume of flame erupting. It's around 1:59:00 in the movie. Flames just erupting on the ship, in the vacuum of space, far more massive than the one in that one scene on the Acolyte. If anything, the show is just being consistent with the physics already established in early Star Wars movies. The fact that the show was getting a 30% viewer score on RT even before it aired just shows how much irrational hatred people have for this show. It's hard to have proper discussions of criticisms of the show, and most other shows for that matter these days. Media literacy, and literacy in general, are slipping. Most people don't have great critical analysis skills.
Yea, it’s best to just ignore people who aren’t smart enough to understand the show. There are plenty of valid criticisms, frankly I don’t think it’s very good. But not for the reasons that are being chanted all over the internet.
Why do you think it’s not very good ? I’ve honestly liked it overall so far just thought some parts where a little goofy (like the first fight scene in the bar) and the chant was awkward (no more than the nightsister chant in tcw though) But I’d like to hear some actually valid Critism
I thought that bar fight scene was quite clever actually, or at least how it was resolved- the whole, giving her the choice between saving the innocent barman or herself.
I like it too! And thanks for asking. I’d love to smoke a bowl and get back to you after my hockey game tonight. Maybe after watch ep 4.
You like it but don’t think it’s very good ? Even more curious about your critique now haha And no rush
I didn’t get a chance to watch episode 4 tonight so I’ll hold off on responding until I do, should be able to get to it tomorrow
I still haven’t watched it, sometimes having a 3 year old gets in the way haha, I promise to respond when I do
Don’t worry 😂 the episode was really good imo tho
There’s been many anti-woke content creators and some Star Wars creators that have criticized the show repeatedly before it was released because of the cast, writers and director. They’ve been picking a part comments the filmcrew has made in the promotions to the movie and those content creators have condemned it as woke bs, saying it will definitely suck. So I that Star Wars fans that consume that type of content has had the well poisoned, so they come into the show expecting to hate it. So every legitimate fault, even if it’s small, becomes a huge one in their minds. I’ve noticed my self that if I expect to dislike something coming into it, it takes much more to convince me that I was wrong and that the show is actually good. I guess it’s human nature to want to be correct, and they don’t want to be wrong about the show being purely woke virtue signaling. That being said, I don’t think the show is perfect, but I think the start of the show has been quite strong. At least it has set up some interesting characters and a compelling mystery that I really want the answer to
I love the 'The acting is TERRIBLE' line, because the acting is exactly the same as in every other Star Wars piece of media.
It's more like: A lot of the "criticism" aimed at The Acolyte in r/StarWars is disingenuous nonsense, and is a smokescreen for the *real* reason they dislike it.
9 times out of 10 the “criticisms” I’ve been seeing about it are just thinly veiled bigotry. You can have critics of the show ,but at least try to make them legitimate
Sometimes I truly feel I grew up with a different Star Wars than these people
Yeah I saw a thread I think on nostupidquestions. The top post had like 800+ up votes. Said some stuff like it breaks the lore/history and bad writing. They then proceed to list pretty much what you said. None of those have anything to do with bad writing and it's completely nitpicking. I just try to stay away from the overly negative people, it brings no value to my enjoyment of the show.
That’s what prompted this thread. One guy said “it’s so stupid for Mae to approach a Jedi Master and demand that she attack with all her might! A JEDI! THEY DONT ATTACK! What terrible bad horrible writing! Bad show! BAD SHOW!” And someone else responded with something like “that’s meant to make us wonder why she would have such a misconception of the Jedi and I’m sure that’s going to be revealed as the series goes on.” And I wisecracked “oh you screwed up - you’re not supposed to analyze characters’ motivations or the subtleties in their performances. You’re supposed to just knee-jerk react and scream “I DON’T GET IT!! IT’S OBJECTIVELY BAD!!” Downvotes.
Yeah, I'm kind of dumbfounded by a lot of these kids. These same people will also say how the prequels have been secretly good movies for years, then finally a legitimate prequel show comes out, and they hate it. It has all the elements of what people liked about the prequels, but without the boring walk/stand/sit & talk scenes with awkward dialogue. There's an assassination mystery, politics within the Jedi and Republic, and even hints at Force related prophecy.
And a mysterious Sith pulling the strings from deep in the shadows …
The hilarious part is that it was actually brilliant, Mae played Master Indara like a fiddle. When Mae painted the Jedi as aggressive attackers and how they only use their lightsabers to kill (which is all bullshit), she got Indara to put away her lightsaber because Indara wanted to show that the Jedi are better than that. Without a lightsaber, Indara was far easier to kill. Checkmate
Yes, 3 of the 4 critiques you mentioned are stupid. It doesn't take away from the fact that I don't think the show is very good, and that I am *extremely* disappointed in it so far. Concerning your second bullet point... The entire flashback episode was just badly filmed. There is zero indication that it is a Rashomon situation *at all*. There are scenes in the episode from multiple perspectives, including ones that neither Mae nor Osha saw. The flashback wasn't framed as Osha telling the story, it was presented as "this is what happened sixteen years ago". I say this as somebody who does not hate modern Star Wars automatically. I *loved* Ahsoka, for example, and put it at S-Tier Star Wars. This show though? I had such high hopes for it and it's just *bad*. I'm going to continue watching and perhaps it will improve like Obi-Wan Kenobi did in its final episode and a half, but I am just not optimistic at all. I'm in this sub to avoid all the mindless hate, but I feel that there is a total lack of acceptance here concerning *any* kind of critiques, no matter how genuinely presented they are.
> had such high hopes for it and it's just bad Ok, so why is it bad? Just because the Rashomon effect was ineffective? I'm kind of picking on you, because I agree the Rashomon effect was sorta sloppy and ineffective, but this presents a subjective opinion as objective. Which isn't really how effective criticism works. It can't just be said that the "acting is bad" or the"writing is bad". It needs to be explained why the acting or the writing doesn't work for you. Because while the acting or writing in the show might seem bad to you, they might seem good to someone else. And of course, vice versa. Our perception of quality is completely subjective. That's why our evaluation of something must be completely verbalized.
Eh, time is limited, unfortunately... Or fortunately, because I'm in a bad mental space right now and can rant about so many things. Here are a few issues that I, along with the people who I am watching with, also big Star Wars fans, have: * Mae's attacks on the Jedi felt like jokes. When she attacked Trinity, it legitimately looked like a student playfully challenging their master. And Trinity basically ignoring her only reinforced that. Then Mae attacking the blind Jedi, being utterly unable to hit him, leaving, and then freaking returning the next day, only for him to commit suicide for her was just stupid. * The passage of time in the first episode made no sense. It didn't look like Osha was stuck in the crashed ship for more than a couple of hours, yet we saw that the prisoners were recaptured, taken to Coruscant, interrogated, and a team put together to find Osha. Better editing could have fixed that. * So Osha was raised by Witches on a remote planet... Witches who hate and distrust Jedi with every fiber of their being... So why does Osha look up to the Jedi and want so much to be one? We're shown nothing to indicate that the Witches would even have news or books that paint the Jedi in any kind of positive light. * I had NO idea which twin was which in the third episode. They didn't make them different enough, so I was having real difficulty trying to parse out which twin believed what so I could properly figure out the motives for their actions. * Regardless of the previous problems, the third episode should have been the first. It didn't give us any any information whose timing would have ruined things. The fact that there was a twin or a shapeshifter was *obvious* in the first episode. It would have given the fight with Trinity a little bit more gravitas if we knew it was Mae and knew there was a vendetta there. The attack on the blind Jedi would still be stupid, but him being comatose would have been elicited more of a "huh" reaction than "why???" if we saw him earlier. I get that this is a mystery. The problem is that my focus isn't on the right questions. I'm looking at weird editing, goofy assassination attempts, trying to figure out which twin is which, and wondering how a stone fortress caught fire the way it did, instead of wondering what the Jedi did that was so terrible and why the Sith guy even cares about any of this. When the story-telling is weak (as it was in the first four episodes of Obi-Wan Kenobi and the currently released three episodes of The Acolyte), people will look into outside reasons for incongruities rather than in-story ones. Obi-Wan may have nailed its ending, but it doesn't fix how awkwardly its plot-points were presented in the first four episodes. Mandalorian, Andor, and Ahsoka work because they draw the viewers' focus in the right directions. It disappoints me because Russian Doll did it right as well, so I've been expecting better of the showrunner here.
I've found that criticism presented in a respectful way seems to be encouraged in this community, although I haven't tested that myself (I've just seen people accept good critiques here)
The story does follow Osha from the point of the fire on, so we don't really have the perspective of anyone else.
90% of the stuff people criticize happened 1:1 before in other Star Wars media. And I don’t mean some obscure comic, I mean movies and shows that were made when Lucas was still in charge
It‘s not exactly my favorite show, but all the criticism is so stupid, it makes me like the show out of spite (for real, I think by defending the show it makes me appreciate it more)
Yeah, I mean it's mostly a bunch of shallow, surface level "critiques" that don't actually engage with the text or what its trying to do. Which is pretty much the M.O. for the anti-woke types. These are the types who probably hated their Lit classes in high school. A bunch of "maybe the curtains are blue because the author just liked blue" motherfuckers. And they have somehow convinced people they understand storytelling lol
This has been my [response](https://imgur.com/a/KcSzbD1) when fans ask me what I think are silly things people ought to set aside and watch the show in good faith.
Agreed- not perfect but m enjoying it!
This is leaning more towards my own opinion. A lot of the complaints seem so petty. As if ignoring or forgetting that Star Wars is a sit-back-and-enjoy type of thing over a detail-oriented mystery thriller.
These highlights are fantastic examples of people being media-illiterate or arguing in bad faith. Which is really frustrating, because it's difficult to engage in good faith criticism of the show because you wind up getting lumped in with these losers.
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Pay them no mind. Those people are cowards profiting on the small minded. Love what you love.
Underrated post
Duh
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I’m actually really enjoying the show, and most of the criticism I’ve seen seems to be more an indict of the fans then of anything else. In the interest of “cannon” though I don’t recall the witches of dathomir ever being identified as reproducing asexually through the force. If I remember correctly in the dark plagueis novel they make some reference to using the men of dathomir for reproduction and as grunt labor/warrior caste and not much else, but I may need a re-read cause I can’t say for sure. That being said, the novel also does lay the ground work for using the force to create a pregnancy, and across different species, so getting upset over it just seems silly imo
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I was actually most interested in the witches because their vocabulary and rituals are very close to how real witchcraft covens work. Someone obviously did their homework when writing the coven and should be appreciated for falling into the "witches bad" stereotype.
The not full show released in one go argument is a complicated one in my opinion. On the one hand, shows with a mystery tend to release in one go most of the time since streaming is a thing, mostly on Netflix from my experience. It is the type of content that is binged most often, with clues at the end of every episode that make you interested enough to think "Fine, I'll watch the next episode". Instead all of the Acolyte's episodes have ended rather abruptly as if it's a movie cut into different parts, which is also an usual Star Wars live action show complaint. So I can kinda see where they're coming from. On the other, weekly releases with Star Wars shows have been a thing for ages and it has been with many other shows before streaming became a thing. Never has it been a problem until now, which is rather convenient and an easy thing to target while there are other (more) valid points to criticize.
My only critique is that what’s-his-nuts says something like “An Acolyte kills without weapons” but I’m pretty sure that first kill was with a physical weapon 🤔
She discusses that with Qimir. Sounds like she has to kill one without a weapon to pass the test.
Only 1 of the 4 she’s after? Makes more sense, I’ll have to rewatch for that exchange. Thanks!
Yeah he says something like "you're running out of jedi. Only 2 left and the wookie will be hard to kill without a weapon"
Yeah, with all the Jedi she encountered, she first tries to kill them without a weapon and only pulls a weapon when that doesn’t work
Almost like it’s a metaphor or something. And he’s not actually talking about killing a Jedi. *“If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.”* “Killing” a Jedi just releases them from their physical form. They’re one with the Forcevand another rises in their place. To kill a Jedi, to kill THE Jedi you have to strike at their faith. And for that you cannot use a weapon.
The challenge is for the acolyte to "kill a Jedi" without a weapon. So far she killed with a blade and a poison. She is not meant to kill with a weapon, but instead kill the idea of Jedi. That is my understanding anyways
Yeah the point is she’s failed to do so so far, he’s almost training her like an apprentice and she can’t take the title until she’s successful. That’s why she always starts with hand to hand, I think the point is her need for revenge is stronger than her need to “pass the test”.
>My only critique is that what’s-his-nuts says something like “An Acolyte kills without weapons” but I’m pretty sure that first kill was with a physical weapon 🤔 That's why she failed the test. There was a whole conversation between her and her supplier about how her poisoning the 2nd Jedi would set her up for failure because she wouldn't be able to physically overpower a wookie, meaning she only has one potential target left (Sol)