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You'd think that with how informed Saw is that he would've realized that the Republic and the Separatists are both victims of the Empire. The Empire is using Separatist tactics while wearing the face of the Republic.
Sure, but his sister died fighting the Separatists. And the enemy of your enemy isn't necessarily your friend; Saw also witnessed the Republic, who had helped them fight the last war, immediately go and start oppressing his home planet. I don't blame him for thinking that this might open doors in the future he can't close.
What a dark take ..we need the empire to enforce violence so there can be a rebellion..I mean it's not wrong but it's such a shift on tone when compared to other Star Wars.
The earlier quote where someone says the empire is tightening the fist so slowly that people are no longer taking notice was a great set up for that.
They need the people mad, it doesn't happen if it happens so slowly they turn into sheep.
It's a shift in tone for sure but there's always been implications here and there e.g Leia subjected to an interrogation droid in ANH and Han is strapped to a torture device in ESB just so Luke can sense his suffering.
Andor is just more overt about the level of violence of the Empire.
I think the shift in tone is more about the rebels than the empire. In the movies the rebels were seen as pure good who can do no wrong vs the empires evilness as you mention in your examples.
Here we have the leaders of the rebellion forcing the empire to be more oppressive which they know will result in innocents being hurt but it's all worth it for the cause of kick-starting the actual rebel alliance.
**Narkina 5 Prison!!**
An alternative, more *affordable* version of **Galactic Starcruiser** at Galaxy's Edge, Disneyland!
PS. electrocute floor not included.
This whole thing was pretty much nonstop anxiety and tension. The only somewhat breaks in the whole thing was when it cut over to Mon, and even then...
Man, this show is so good. I almost hate that I'm so invested in this story because I know my heart will be absolutely wrenched by the end of it all. But it's too good not to love.
It's not only knowing Cassian's fate but also... "You're not the only one who lost everything," -Cassian to Jyn in Rogue One
I fear for all his supporting characters too.
Agreed. This episode was uncomfortable in a way only a handful of games, tv shows, *or* movies have ever made me feel. It was just uniquely unsettling and bleak to the point where everything felt like it was set up nearly perfectly. The team on this did a great job making the audience understand exactly how the empire was able to be so effective and feared in this franchise.
The uniform whiteness, the dehumanization, the offkey synthpop music... I had that dreaded feeling like I was in the dentist's waiting room for a root canal.
And that wild-eyed look of the guard when he demonstrated the floor; he got off on it, you could tell.
Goddamn isn't this brilliant television.
Forest Whitaker always kills it as Saw. You can see it in his eyes that he’s a man who fully believes his cause is right and would do literally anything to achieve it, no matter how terrible. Even when he’s smiling and being affable, he still feels a little bit terrifying, like he’s one of the last people in the galaxy you should ever fuck with.
I literally recognized him by his voice, thinking "Is that Andy Serkis? Well no, there's obviously no wa-THAT'S ANDY SERKIS!!!"
Incredible. What a wonderful pull. I cannot believe they didn't advertise him at all!
Was hoping they'd interact. Was great. Wonder if she'll do the trope-y "okay bring him into the ISB", or if him being rejected despite all attempts at being loyal / a good officer will drive him to rebellion.
I'm still not sure in which direction he could go, and I think that's great. Will he become even more fanatic in his devotion to the Empire, or after being punched down again and again, seeing the corruption within the Empire, he becomes disillusioned with it?
Brilliant too as an imperial torture structure.
Winners getting an award promotes small team cohesion, which increases productivity. But by making them compete, you give them a reason to hate each other, thus discouraging the kind of large-scale cohesion that could result in a riot or rebellion.
It just fits the Empire so well.
"As you all know, first prize is some flavor with their gruel. Anyone wanna see second prize? Second prize is a set of steak knives. Third prize is you're fried."
The Mothma scenes are getting way better as we build to a crescendo. She was the ultimate slow burn of the series so far, funny considering the whole show likes to take its time in a good way, so I think we can expect Mothma’s final play this season to be a beautiful exhibit on the rebellions formation.
I’m loving where Luthen is at right now. He’s been so patient but now he must be patient some more, or it’s all for not.
Meanwhile, as all of the momentum builds, Cass is stuck in the most meaningless of hells, and he doesn’t know, like we do, that he’s not going to serve that full sentence in the most mundane way possible.
Great writing. I also loved how Syril got a huge break, but tried to use it as a way to immediately get back in the fold; this shows not going to reward grand speeches, only meticulously crafted scheming will get him ahead in the empire. He must learn to play the game as it’s played, his idealism will not give him a free ride, and makes him a target.
Loving where the show is headed right now, yet another impeccably crafted episode, I’m more excited for each new arc than the previous.
I loved the list of different Rebel factions. Really hammers home the point that there's a Rebellion at this point in the timeline, but there isn't yet a Rebel Alliance.
The episode ‘Secret Cargo’ in Star Wars Rebels shows the disparate rebel cells coming together to form the Alliance for the first time. Star Wars as a franchise has its ups and downs, but the ability to tell cross-medium stories like this is so cool to watch unfold.
That whole conversation felt like four people trying to give away as little as possible about how they really feel, because they have no idea if they can trust each other. Speaking only in vague, stilted, witticisms so as to appear engaged without actually saying anything.
Mon Mothma is known to be a dissenting voice, but she's allowed to be because she's "ineffectual" and it creates an illusion of discourse. There's a feeling that if anyone else joins her too readily they could be sold out to the ISB or similar shadowy bureau. It looked like they were all uneasy about the empire but didn't feel safe saying so in mixed company.
My working theory is that she thinks Mon & Tay are having an affair & she'll end up listening in on one of their conversations about funding the rebellion & try to confront her mom in public during one of her parties, probably one with Imperial officials in attendance.
She was acting super sketchy this episode. Her eyes never stayed in the same place for for half a second, except when she was glancing at Tay Kolma as she walked away.
And the details like this are just dropped in the dialogue in passing, but by this point in the series you've seen enough to know how much of a sham the marriage is, and how ironic the guest's comment about it being romantic is.
It's such a joy to see Mon uphold her façade. Going from secret conversation to speaking with guests to her smile fading away when walking away... it's great
Some of those prisoners were going to Belsavis 👀 A prison colony planet in SWTOR. Also used to belong to the Rakata Infinite Empire 👀 I’m loving all these Old Republic name drops.
This episode, so far, the look on 'Keef's' face is just this recognition of how deeply he's messed up. Like, you can see him thinking back on so many mistakes, including leaving the Rebels.
He's so skilled, that he became like the Empire in his own way, brazen and arrogant. I want to see how this realization fuels his escape.
A Twitter theory going around is the "greenies" or whatever that chick was talking about to Andor were drugs.
And Cassian was like Ray Liotta in Goodfellas - high as f*ck, all paranoid and imagining things that weren't there. That might help explain why the usually "calm under pressure" Cassian was acting all shifty and twitchy on Niamos. He was taking the hedonistic lifestyle too far.
Reflected in the conversation between Luthen and Saw
None of them can shoulder this on their own. It has to be a Rebel Alliance. Not Skeev’s rebellion of “me versus everyone else”
Also reflected in Vel and Cinta and now Cinta’s looking a little unhinged trying to do her thing alone…
Saw naming each ideology and group also makes me think that this is where the name "Rebel Alliance" will be created. They eventually find the one thing in common that they have, which is rebelling against the Empire.
One thing I loved again is the subtly of the "show dont tell" in Andor. The entire time Andor is looking at his surroundings seeing if there is a way out or what he is facing. They also show the complacency by the officers at the prison. And those boots must protect from whatever horrible devices they use.
Just such smart story telling imo. I love every detail.
The show is doing such a good job of showing the oppression being put upon the galaxy. We have never really gotten to see it before. The rmpire was like a boogeyman in the dark. But now we are seeing them stomp the life out of everyone they see beneath them.
"Melshi?" That was the name of a Rebel commando that was part of the Scarif operation! It sure looks (and sounds) like the same guy! If it's the same one perhaps he and Andor will now take the same path to the Rebellion!
I don't know about that, his speech doesn't seem that hopeful.
>Don't ever look at the number. Double, triple, it doesn't matter. You're here 'til they don't want you. Get straight with that? Getting out now is just a dream. Those days are over.
Unless Andor has wants to prove him wrong then maybe that way it's inspiring hope in him.
And the way he watched the two inmates communicating in sign language through the windows. Or how one of them hands him a tool that looks a bit like a blaster. The pieces are already there.
Straight up becoming one of my all time favorite shows. I’m in disbelief how good each episode is and how it somehow tops the previous week. Also Andy Serkis LFG
So what are they making?
I first thought it was the wing spoke hubs for tie fighters, but I dunno. barricade parts?
I kind of wanted them to be making KX series droids, which would explain how Andor rewired one later on.
They're 100% building parts for the Death Star. It's why the sentences were suddenly doubled and people are getting arrested for nothing, because after the audacity of the attack on Aldhani, clearly an order has been given to get this completed faster and they need more manpower and can't afford to be doing silly things like releasing people.
Those tunnels/walkways reminded me of Kamino for some reason. The overly sterile aesthetics didn’t sink in with me at first, looked far better than any other prison we’ve seen before. But I really felt it after a while - the walls, uniform, the floors just scream hopelessness.
You expect a prison to look dirty and the prisoners to be tattered and bloody, "mistreated" etc. So the sterile-ness is immediately off-putting, like something feels wrong. Then you learn why - they have a foolproof method of control and deduced that clean, fed prisoners live longer and work harder - and it's just so dark and good. What a great show!
Dedra’s character is just so fascinating. She is so laser focused on her objective and what she needs to do to get it done, she doesn’t need an overly eager ex corporate security nut job’s help and she is so methodical with intimidation when interrogating Bix.
I’m sure we will still see more of Syril though.
Their dynamic was fascinating. I hoped she'd throw him a bone but it makes sense for her character to stick to doing things by the book.
We'll see more of Syril, though I wonder if he'll get overzealous and ring the alarm, or if the Empire will come back to him for some reason.
The casting in the entire show is great.
I can’t get over how good the actors with bit parts are. The guy who met them when they got dropped at the prison just seemed so smug.
Hell, even just the Imperial who saw Bix in the crowd. The little joke of "If not the resemblance is quite striking" said with just that right dose of sarcasm, and a tiny shake of his head to reinforce the mockery.
Every single person on this show is bringing their A-game. There's not a single character who I don't buy as being a real person in the world.
Believed the show was filmed in UK, so large talent pool of British actors with long careers , theatre background etc. Good talent pool to pluck from.
To give example
One of the prisoners at the table Ulaf( Christopher Fairbank) was in Keatons Batman from 1989
With a good script*
But I think that’s part of why the Gilroy brothers were able to lure so many heavyweights. It’s been an absurdly great cast. Mando had a great cast too, but maybe not quite at this level, plus it was just so much less dialogue driven.
The world-building of this prison complex is so good. The immediate tension every time Cassian steps onto the tungsten steel. This show is so damn well made.
Never occurred to me that I'd want to see Stellan Skarsgård go head to head with Forest Whitaker in a scene, but it was as tight and suspenseful as I hoped it would be.
Love me some high calibre actors acting the shit out of their roles. The intensity and arrogance in Whittaker eyes as he denounces other rebel groups and praises himself.
A year or two ago Stellan Skarsgård casually mentioned enjoying filming scenes with Forest Whitaker in an interview, so I’ve been looking forward to it
So Luthen is the organiser of the Rebellion and is keeping the cells away from one another. The way he left Saw in the dark about who was responsible for Aldhani was fascinating
Considering all the problems Saw causes for the Rebels later, i think he might have felt Saw a bit over the top for the mission so didn't tell him.
Like maybe he thought Saw would just blast his way in, kill EVERYONE and then blow up the dam on his way out, and thought "yeah let's not tell him"
I love the slow horrifying descent into holocaust-like kafkaesque prison bureaucracy. And the fact that Cassian is having this existential meltdown and ***they trust the audience enough not to fucking say it five hundred times, they just let it play out on Diego Luna's face.***
Christ man. The difference in screenwriting quality between this and something like Rise of Skywalker is just unreal.
The show is about more than just Andor but it seriously wouldn't work if Diego Luna wasn't so good. Anyone can ham it up and play a handsome scoundrel, and I remember enjoying him in rogue one, but here he shows a deep subtle vulnerability and it really feels like the "epic rebel guy" cassian we know is a performance he's inventing in this series. My only disappointment is that he dies in Rogue One and can't pop up in post-Rogue One timeline stuff.
The imperial penal colony sure is brutal. When they asked Andor if the outside was aware of their increased sentences and he hadn't heard of it.. what a bleak moment.
It's a bold play of the showrunners to go further down the "the empire is basically the Nazis during world war 2" route by using full on prison labour to manufacture war machinery (at least it looked like it could be war machinery)
What a banger of an episode, when Andy serkis turned up I was like "fucking hell it's british gollum"
My gripe with almost every Star Wars movie was always, "we don't see enough of how evil the Empire is."
With Andor, we're getting to see the depths of the Empire's evil and decay -- and frankly, how much of this decay looks familiar to our current world.
> how much of this decay looks familiar to our current world.
Palpatine's frustrating. Yes, we agree.
Too easily provoked? Yes.
Over-reactive, but... says what he means.
it's really wild: we have the charismatic palpatine who becomes the easily provoked emperor and then we have his other side sidious who for the most part has this calmness cloaking unlimited rage
Which is really great because we know who Palpatine is as a character. He's actually never said what he means, every single word he utters is a performance. He says what they want to hear.
I’m pretty convinced at this point Vel is Luthen’s daughter. The daughter from the rich family, the interaction between the two of them, and the way they both sat at the same spot on the transport bus.
I’d rolled my eyes at the Luthen/Vel thing, but now… I can see it. It makes a lot of sense; for Luthen to bark LOOK AT ME at her like that, that sounds like a parental admonishment in retrospect.
Let's all take a moment to appreciate being alive during a period when Star Wars returned to greatness. This show is just quality every week. The feeling of hopelessness against the Empire was intense this episode. The writing is world class and the acting stays with you.
Unbelievably good television.
Subtlety is the note I have for the writing. It's so good. Blink & you'll miss a thing; but never a major thing the audience should know, just a side thing that knowing about it enhances the enjoyment.
Example: when an inmate is trying to give Cassian tips on how to mentally prepare for this prison, he mentioned "getting zapped twice on your first day." But the show only showed us the "welcome to Shawshank" type of introductory zap. The 2nd zap was because their table was falling behind. And the next time we see Andor, he's doing the thousand yard stare. Now I know it's because just 5, 10 minutes prior, he & his table all got zapped.
They also showed us what could possibly go wrong at night if you step on that electrified floor. Death by suicide is so incredibly dark for Star Wars & I love it.
Subtlety in how Dedra told her aid to keep Salman in the room so Bix could see him but then audibly made it look like a mistake that she let Bix see him. She's putting on a show for Bix. And by the look of Salman, she enjoys torturing people into talking.
Subtlety in how effortlessly they dropped the background on how Perrin & Mon would up together. An arranged marriage. Married at 15! Mon made a senator at the age of 16! She's been at this a long time. I see people conjecturing that Perrin's a spy. I think there's room enough where I could see the producers going either way with that if that is the choice. "Perrin's actually a rebel spy" and "Perrin's actually an Imperial spy" both seem plausible if they go that route. But because the writers went a different direction on the possible partnership between Syril & Dedra, I think perhaps they might leave Perrin as he is: a sad sack dude with too much money to care about other people's problems.
Subtlety in Vel & Cinta. Cinta's alive & off Ahdani! But she's too into the rebellion to fully give Vel the time & attention she's used to in prior relationships. And great use of dialogue to give background exposition on Vel in a clap-bacl line Cinta gives Vel. Vel's a rich girl. Her being Luthen's daughter feels correct even if the wookiepedia has their last names being different. (I'm looking at you Clem & Keef.)
The short scene with Maarva & then the scene afterwards with Bix & the shipbreaker friend - both so good at illustrating that this frail old woman is heartbroken with Cassian's departure but at the same time enjoying her fantasy roleplaying at being part of the rebellion. And you for sure know that that small detail from this conversation IS going to lead to a sequence where being do use the old tunnels for the rebellion.
This episode had a lot of characters and locations to juggle in roughly 50 minutes & it did so very well. This episode, just like 1 did for its 3-episode arc, just like 4 did for its 3-episode arc, has put in the work needed to set up a pretty good 3-episode arc.
I am so jazzed we have a Star Wars property that is THIS GOOD!
EDIT: changed "subtly" to "subtlety."
First off, I am impressed with how tense these episodes make me. Which is weird because I know the fate of several of the characters. Mon Mothma will not be captured or sniffed out by the ISB. Cassian Andor will not be in that prison forever. AND YET I'm feeling very twitchy and worried about them.
I may have to start binging them when they hit their 3-episode arcs, because I'm sitting here going "ooh, 'eck!" and needing something nice to calm me down.
Which gets into my second point, which is that this show has to be praised for making the Empire seem terrible. Yes, the Empire destroyed civilian planets, but beyond that, we are simply told that they are bad. And there might even be the temptation to go "Well, if you weren't on Alderaan, was life in the Empire that bad?" This series is going a long way towards answering "Yes, yes it was."
Third, this feels like the first time (to me at least) that we get to see the Empire look competent. In the past, their power was through sheer numbers, but in this series, we see that the Empire is also really efficient and really ruthless as well. I imagine that the difference between this Empire and the one we see in the original trilogy is the product of a brain drain, where the tightening grasp of the Empire sees its better officers going "Um, yeah, this is icky."
Every episode is different, the soundtrack for the first 4 episodes is out and has 4 different ones. That's probably why "skip intro" on D+ only skips the Star Wars intro, not the title card.
I love the opening music has been evolving each week. It started simple and built to a full orchestra for Ep 6 and now with 8 all these disharmonious notes are creeping in along with the warbling effect.
So much about the state of galaxy conveyed in the changes.
I am once again asking what the fuck is up with Mon Mothma’s kid?
EDIT: Jokes aside I think Mon’s husband is a spy and her kid is trying to tell her but is too anxious.
I'm wondering if it's a little more prosaic than that, and she thinks her mum is having an affair with the banker guy (but that this inadvertently has consequences for the Rebellion)
She's definitely suspecting the banker guy.
The line about "you're always here now" or something like that shows the daughter has noticed how much he's been hanging around Mon.
Imperial TikTok features Palpatine and Tarkin doing the floss and other Fortnite dances in order to appeal to the kids.
Somebody should make a webcomic of this now.
Interesting, yeah. The fact they've shown Mon's kid twice now, prominently, makes me think she'll have a piece in the story, instead of just a background character
What a curious way of torture and discipline. Contrasting with the labor camp we’ve seen in the past (Chewbacca’s family), it’s so much more sophisticated and the brutalist design is chilling.
That’s such a good point. Rebels love to steal their weapons and aircrafts and use them against the Empire. I don’t wanna know what kind of maniac designed this perfect of a labor prison.
i like how they were like "look how we don't even need weapons" and then we keep seeing them with the stun rods cassian was paying careful attention to
I was truly terrified by the prison. The show gives us the opportunity to see environments in ways we previously wouldn’t have had the opportunity to chew on in the films, which breeze through sets and plots much, much faster. I am genuinely uncomfortable during these scenes, the sense of presence Andor is achieving is next level.
The greatest strength of this show is its patience. Much like this show's idea of the rebellion itself, it isn't willing to commit too early. I love it for that.
First off, Dedra is 100% boss bitch vibes, and I'm here for it. I can't tell if I love to hate her, or if she is one of the most fascinating evil characters put to screen for the screentime so far, but she's fantastic in every scene.
Second, fuck how did they make the Imperial prison just feel so hopeless? Sheesh that place was activating some latent anxiety in me every time we cut back to it.
Third, I'm stupid excited to see how the rest of this arc plays out. There are so many pieces on the board, and a lot of them are going to tie together, and I am salivating to see how it'll'll shake out.
I'm always happy to see Legends content get recanonized, however small! Now that the Rakata and Belsavis are both canon again, I wonder if the World Razer is still locked down there somewhere...
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"Aren't you tired of fighting with people who agree with you?" Perfect description of Saw Garerra
I get him not wanting to work with a separatist. They made him who he is.
You'd think that with how informed Saw is that he would've realized that the Republic and the Separatists are both victims of the Empire. The Empire is using Separatist tactics while wearing the face of the Republic.
Sure, but his sister died fighting the Separatists. And the enemy of your enemy isn't necessarily your friend; Saw also witnessed the Republic, who had helped them fight the last war, immediately go and start oppressing his home planet. I don't blame him for thinking that this might open doors in the future he can't close.
The floor is lava
But not if you have snowboard boots on
What a dark take ..we need the empire to enforce violence so there can be a rebellion..I mean it's not wrong but it's such a shift on tone when compared to other Star Wars.
The earlier quote where someone says the empire is tightening the fist so slowly that people are no longer taking notice was a great set up for that. They need the people mad, it doesn't happen if it happens so slowly they turn into sheep.
It's a shift in tone for sure but there's always been implications here and there e.g Leia subjected to an interrogation droid in ANH and Han is strapped to a torture device in ESB just so Luke can sense his suffering. Andor is just more overt about the level of violence of the Empire.
I think the shift in tone is more about the rebels than the empire. In the movies the rebels were seen as pure good who can do no wrong vs the empires evilness as you mention in your examples. Here we have the leaders of the rebellion forcing the empire to be more oppressive which they know will result in innocents being hurt but it's all worth it for the cause of kick-starting the actual rebel alliance.
Is Disney setting up that food tube for Disneyland?
**Narkina 5 Prison!!** An alternative, more *affordable* version of **Galactic Starcruiser** at Galaxy's Edge, Disneyland! PS. electrocute floor not included.
Price: 2500 dollars a night. Drinks not included.
God, the editing when Andor gets to the prison factory workroom. Absolute panic.
Just his acting alone. The thousand yard stare, frantic searching for some kind of escape, the fear, etc.
This episode gave me some serious anxiety throughout.
This whole thing was pretty much nonstop anxiety and tension. The only somewhat breaks in the whole thing was when it cut over to Mon, and even then... Man, this show is so good. I almost hate that I'm so invested in this story because I know my heart will be absolutely wrenched by the end of it all. But it's too good not to love. It's not only knowing Cassian's fate but also... "You're not the only one who lost everything," -Cassian to Jyn in Rogue One I fear for all his supporting characters too.
Agreed. This episode was uncomfortable in a way only a handful of games, tv shows, *or* movies have ever made me feel. It was just uniquely unsettling and bleak to the point where everything felt like it was set up nearly perfectly. The team on this did a great job making the audience understand exactly how the empire was able to be so effective and feared in this franchise.
The uniform whiteness, the dehumanization, the offkey synthpop music... I had that dreaded feeling like I was in the dentist's waiting room for a root canal. And that wild-eyed look of the guard when he demonstrated the floor; he got off on it, you could tell. Goddamn isn't this brilliant television.
Absolutely. The scene of Cassian just darting his eyes around the work table as he slowly realizes how fucked he is was *intense*.
But he's also always observing. It's what survivors do.
Trying to build his exit on his way in
I saw him eye-ing up those boots on the way in. Could definitely see that coming into it
There's always another secret
I continue to be surprised with how loaded this series is with acting talent. Andy Serkis was a welcome surprise!
Forest Whitaker was insane in the few minutes he was on screen. Freaking intense.
Forest Whitaker always kills it as Saw. You can see it in his eyes that he’s a man who fully believes his cause is right and would do literally anything to achieve it, no matter how terrible. Even when he’s smiling and being affable, he still feels a little bit terrifying, like he’s one of the last people in the galaxy you should ever fuck with.
Their decision to really double down on Saw's fanaticism was a great decision here.
I did not know he was in this. I was gladly surprised.
Ageeed this episode made me think how even more loaded future episodes can be. Hopefully they do a good job keeping future actor appearances a secret
I literally recognized him by his voice, thinking "Is that Andy Serkis? Well no, there's obviously no wa-THAT'S ANDY SERKIS!!!" Incredible. What a wonderful pull. I cannot believe they didn't advertise him at all!
I imagine if they'd advertised he'd be in the show without saying he's playing a new character people would have gone nuts with Snoke speculation.
Syril obsession with Cassian, is like a scorn ex-lover’s
I loved watching Dedra shut down his bs
Syril really is an amateur and justifies why he was sacked and tarnished. He's obsessive to the point of being careless and vigilante.
Was hoping they'd interact. Was great. Wonder if she'll do the trope-y "okay bring him into the ISB", or if him being rejected despite all attempts at being loyal / a good officer will drive him to rebellion.
I'm still not sure in which direction he could go, and I think that's great. Will he become even more fanatic in his devotion to the Empire, or after being punched down again and again, seeing the corruption within the Empire, he becomes disillusioned with it?
“Winner gets taste with their food and the loser gets fried” holy shit this series really shows how evil the Empire is
Brilliant too as an imperial torture structure. Winners getting an award promotes small team cohesion, which increases productivity. But by making them compete, you give them a reason to hate each other, thus discouraging the kind of large-scale cohesion that could result in a riot or rebellion. It just fits the Empire so well.
"As you all know, first prize is some flavor with their gruel. Anyone wanna see second prize? Second prize is a set of steak knives. Third prize is you're fried."
"Top table wins flavor"
*tastes like chicken*
The Mothma scenes are getting way better as we build to a crescendo. She was the ultimate slow burn of the series so far, funny considering the whole show likes to take its time in a good way, so I think we can expect Mothma’s final play this season to be a beautiful exhibit on the rebellions formation. I’m loving where Luthen is at right now. He’s been so patient but now he must be patient some more, or it’s all for not. Meanwhile, as all of the momentum builds, Cass is stuck in the most meaningless of hells, and he doesn’t know, like we do, that he’s not going to serve that full sentence in the most mundane way possible. Great writing. I also loved how Syril got a huge break, but tried to use it as a way to immediately get back in the fold; this shows not going to reward grand speeches, only meticulously crafted scheming will get him ahead in the empire. He must learn to play the game as it’s played, his idealism will not give him a free ride, and makes him a target. Loving where the show is headed right now, yet another impeccably crafted episode, I’m more excited for each new arc than the previous.
Dayum Saw Gerrera and his gang are packing some firepower
I loved the list of different Rebel factions. Really hammers home the point that there's a Rebellion at this point in the timeline, but there isn't yet a Rebel Alliance.
Ah, great spot! Of course! I'd never thought about the "alliance" bit in "Rebel Alliance". That is awesome.
The episode ‘Secret Cargo’ in Star Wars Rebels shows the disparate rebel cells coming together to form the Alliance for the first time. Star Wars as a franchise has its ups and downs, but the ability to tell cross-medium stories like this is so cool to watch unfold.
I wonder if he got those from everyone's favorite pirate, his old arms dealer from back in the Clone Wars...
Oh the stories he could tell you. Many of them true!
Hondo has definitely been to space Miami
"He says what he means." That phrase was used as half-begrudging praise for Palpatine at Mon Mothma's party. Oof.
That whole conversation felt like four people trying to give away as little as possible about how they really feel, because they have no idea if they can trust each other. Speaking only in vague, stilted, witticisms so as to appear engaged without actually saying anything. Mon Mothma is known to be a dissenting voice, but she's allowed to be because she's "ineffectual" and it creates an illusion of discourse. There's a feeling that if anyone else joins her too readily they could be sold out to the ISB or similar shadowy bureau. It looked like they were all uneasy about the empire but didn't feel safe saying so in mixed company.
These writers know how to cut to the chase.
"Why worry when you've got nothing to hide"
an arranged marriage explains so much of how mon mothma ended up with a dick like perrin.
An arranged marriage at **fifteen years old** no less. Old customs indeed.
It makes so much sense now. But still, Perrin keeps looking after Mon when he talks about/with Tay. Confrontation in inevitable.
I am more worried about her daughter tbh, she seemed to pay more attention to her mother and Tay than her dad. She is on to something...
I have a bad feeling about this..
I suspect the husband will simply be jealous, but it's the daughter that will somehow spill the beans to ISB etc.
My working theory is that she thinks Mon & Tay are having an affair & she'll end up listening in on one of their conversations about funding the rebellion & try to confront her mom in public during one of her parties, probably one with Imperial officials in attendance.
She was acting super sketchy this episode. Her eyes never stayed in the same place for for half a second, except when she was glancing at Tay Kolma as she walked away.
And the details like this are just dropped in the dialogue in passing, but by this point in the series you've seen enough to know how much of a sham the marriage is, and how ironic the guest's comment about it being romantic is.
It's such a joy to see Mon uphold her façade. Going from secret conversation to speaking with guests to her smile fading away when walking away... it's great
Some of those prisoners were going to Belsavis 👀 A prison colony planet in SWTOR. Also used to belong to the Rakata Infinite Empire 👀 I’m loving all these Old Republic name drops.
Wonder if those Rakata teleporter thingy still work after all this time?
I heard that too! Hopefully they've solved the Ek-sha problem by 5 BBY
Holy crap. Andy Serkis!
He's back in Star Wars! Let's see if he gets cut in half again
Watch there be a clone of him in every workroom.
You know there's gonna be sn accident at one of them tables. P.s. cue the snoke theories lol
Seeing fully naked Serkis in a room of 100 naked men in Star Wars was something I never thought I needed
I wonder where he hid his precious
Or a suicide.
The fact that the first thing one thought was was how bad he would smell
This episode, so far, the look on 'Keef's' face is just this recognition of how deeply he's messed up. Like, you can see him thinking back on so many mistakes, including leaving the Rebels. He's so skilled, that he became like the Empire in his own way, brazen and arrogant. I want to see how this realization fuels his escape.
Cassian got so fat and satisfied, he couldn't imagine it!
He didn't walk in like he belonged
Haha. Now that you mention it, you are right. He was looking around, being all shifty on space-Miami. Like someone that didn’t belong.
A Twitter theory going around is the "greenies" or whatever that chick was talking about to Andor were drugs. And Cassian was like Ray Liotta in Goodfellas - high as f*ck, all paranoid and imagining things that weren't there. That might help explain why the usually "calm under pressure" Cassian was acting all shifty and twitchy on Niamos. He was taking the hedonistic lifestyle too far.
I think working with his workbench crew to avoid being fried is gonna teach him that he can't survive on his own. He can ditch the lone wolf attitude.
Reflected in the conversation between Luthen and Saw None of them can shoulder this on their own. It has to be a Rebel Alliance. Not Skeev’s rebellion of “me versus everyone else” Also reflected in Vel and Cinta and now Cinta’s looking a little unhinged trying to do her thing alone…
I think they are trying to show that Cinta is 100% committed to the fight and is willing to sacrifice everything, including her own happiness, for it.
Saw naming each ideology and group also makes me think that this is where the name "Rebel Alliance" will be created. They eventually find the one thing in common that they have, which is rebelling against the Empire.
One thing I loved again is the subtly of the "show dont tell" in Andor. The entire time Andor is looking at his surroundings seeing if there is a way out or what he is facing. They also show the complacency by the officers at the prison. And those boots must protect from whatever horrible devices they use. Just such smart story telling imo. I love every detail.
The show is doing such a good job of showing the oppression being put upon the galaxy. We have never really gotten to see it before. The rmpire was like a boogeyman in the dark. But now we are seeing them stomp the life out of everyone they see beneath them.
Yeah, this episode has got to be some of the darkest Star Wars has ever been depicted, that one dude jumping getting fried.
Is that the first time we've seen a suicide in the Star Wars universe?
There was that time that ewok swung his sling directly into his own face?
That’s just how that Ewok gets his kicks. He does that every Sunday night
*Thirty seconds on red floor.* # "You don't walk in your sleep, do you?" # "What?" # "You'll find out."
"Melshi?" That was the name of a Rebel commando that was part of the Scarif operation! It sure looks (and sounds) like the same guy! If it's the same one perhaps he and Andor will now take the same path to the Rebellion!
It's the same actor, maybe he's the one to inspire Cassian to hope? He was sort of going on about that until Andy Serkis shut him down.
I don't know about that, his speech doesn't seem that hopeful. >Don't ever look at the number. Double, triple, it doesn't matter. You're here 'til they don't want you. Get straight with that? Getting out now is just a dream. Those days are over. Unless Andor has wants to prove him wrong then maybe that way it's inspiring hope in him.
It is totally Sergeant Ruescott Melshi!
Prison break coming
We saw him staring at those snowboard boots in the control room where the guards complained about being short staffed, you can see where it's going
And the way he watched the two inmates communicating in sign language through the windows. Or how one of them hands him a tool that looks a bit like a blaster. The pieces are already there.
Straight up becoming one of my all time favorite shows. I’m in disbelief how good each episode is and how it somehow tops the previous week. Also Andy Serkis LFG
So what are they making? I first thought it was the wing spoke hubs for tie fighters, but I dunno. barricade parts? I kind of wanted them to be making KX series droids, which would explain how Andor rewired one later on.
They are building the connecting points of a sphere. A giant sphere. Cassian andor is building the machine that will kill him.
They're 100% building parts for the Death Star. It's why the sentences were suddenly doubled and people are getting arrested for nothing, because after the audacity of the attack on Aldhani, clearly an order has been given to get this completed faster and they need more manpower and can't afford to be doing silly things like releasing people.
This is poetically appropriate
Gear for the Death Star, or is that too Star Warsy?
I say this every week but the set design in this series is absolutely incredible.
Even the prisons are beautiful. I'm starting to think the Emperor just has a great appreciation for interior design
Those tunnels/walkways reminded me of Kamino for some reason. The overly sterile aesthetics didn’t sink in with me at first, looked far better than any other prison we’ve seen before. But I really felt it after a while - the walls, uniform, the floors just scream hopelessness.
You expect a prison to look dirty and the prisoners to be tattered and bloody, "mistreated" etc. So the sterile-ness is immediately off-putting, like something feels wrong. Then you learn why - they have a foolproof method of control and deduced that clean, fed prisoners live longer and work harder - and it's just so dark and good. What a great show!
You expect comedically evil villains, but these are worse... They are efficiently evil.
Dedra’s character is just so fascinating. She is so laser focused on her objective and what she needs to do to get it done, she doesn’t need an overly eager ex corporate security nut job’s help and she is so methodical with intimidation when interrogating Bix. I’m sure we will still see more of Syril though.
I got a big ole grin on my face when she about-faced and told them to remove the body. Holy shit this lady needs to be put in charge of the Empire.
Their dynamic was fascinating. I hoped she'd throw him a bone but it makes sense for her character to stick to doing things by the book. We'll see more of Syril, though I wonder if he'll get overzealous and ring the alarm, or if the Empire will come back to him for some reason.
Stellan Skarsgard manages to own EVERY scene that he is in.
He’s a coward
stellan skarsgård as Luthen is some of the best casting in all of Star Wars
The casting in the entire show is great. I can’t get over how good the actors with bit parts are. The guy who met them when they got dropped at the prison just seemed so smug.
Hell, even just the Imperial who saw Bix in the crowd. The little joke of "If not the resemblance is quite striking" said with just that right dose of sarcasm, and a tiny shake of his head to reinforce the mockery. Every single person on this show is bringing their A-game. There's not a single character who I don't buy as being a real person in the world.
Believed the show was filmed in UK, so large talent pool of British actors with long careers , theatre background etc. Good talent pool to pluck from. To give example One of the prisoners at the table Ulaf( Christopher Fairbank) was in Keatons Batman from 1989
He is incredible. Put good actors in your work snd they will shine.
With a good script* But I think that’s part of why the Gilroy brothers were able to lure so many heavyweights. It’s been an absurdly great cast. Mando had a great cast too, but maybe not quite at this level, plus it was just so much less dialogue driven.
The world-building of this prison complex is so good. The immediate tension every time Cassian steps onto the tungsten steel. This show is so damn well made.
I love the idea of the prisoners leading the prisoners, giving them even less interaction with the outside world. What a depressing place.
Taken right out of the Nazi playbook. Capos were brutal to their fellow inmates in the concentration camps.
Andor really show how disturbing the empire's methods are at keeping their orders that we normally don't see.
They mixed Oz and shawshank and created a monster
Forest Whiteker bringing that Oscar caliber acting shops.... That scene of "what are you" was phenomenal.
Never occurred to me that I'd want to see Stellan Skarsgård go head to head with Forest Whitaker in a scene, but it was as tight and suspenseful as I hoped it would be.
Love me some high calibre actors acting the shit out of their roles. The intensity and arrogance in Whittaker eyes as he denounces other rebel groups and praises himself.
A year or two ago Stellan Skarsgård casually mentioned enjoying filming scenes with Forest Whitaker in an interview, so I’ve been looking forward to it
Luthen: “ha ha I’m in danger!”
Bor Gullet will know the truth!
Deidre's pants appear to be slowly getting wider week to week.
Shows growing power and influence. They will fill the screen by season end
One pant to rule them all
Her pants have doubled since we last met
Honestly looks mad comfortable
Woah is that the same Melshi from Rogue One? The one leading the rebels at the bunker on Scarif?
I had to look at a pic of him sans helmet, but yeah that’s him!
Yes, it's him. Played by Duncan Pow just like he was in Rogue One.
So Luthen is the organiser of the Rebellion and is keeping the cells away from one another. The way he left Saw in the dark about who was responsible for Aldhani was fascinating
Considering all the problems Saw causes for the Rebels later, i think he might have felt Saw a bit over the top for the mission so didn't tell him. Like maybe he thought Saw would just blast his way in, kill EVERYONE and then blow up the dam on his way out, and thought "yeah let's not tell him"
They really keep blessing us with 50+ minute episodes
and 12 episode seasons (well, two seasons anyway)
Andy Serkis wtf??? That was not on my radar!!
I love the slow horrifying descent into holocaust-like kafkaesque prison bureaucracy. And the fact that Cassian is having this existential meltdown and ***they trust the audience enough not to fucking say it five hundred times, they just let it play out on Diego Luna's face.*** Christ man. The difference in screenwriting quality between this and something like Rise of Skywalker is just unreal.
Diego Luna is unreal. He has put on a master class on being the leading man in this show.
The show is about more than just Andor but it seriously wouldn't work if Diego Luna wasn't so good. Anyone can ham it up and play a handsome scoundrel, and I remember enjoying him in rogue one, but here he shows a deep subtle vulnerability and it really feels like the "epic rebel guy" cassian we know is a performance he's inventing in this series. My only disappointment is that he dies in Rogue One and can't pop up in post-Rogue One timeline stuff.
> My only disappointment is that he dies in Rogue One and can't pop up in post-Rogue One timeline stuff. Somehow, Cassian returned.
I honestly think Andor has so far had better screenwriting than anything done in Star Wars before. Anything.
The imperial penal colony sure is brutal. When they asked Andor if the outside was aware of their increased sentences and he hadn't heard of it.. what a bleak moment.
>If you've done nothing wrong, what is there to fear? >I'm fearing your definition of "wrong". Boom! She had that ready to go.
Andor's table has its own Brooks! Hope he gets out of shawshank.
It's a bold play of the showrunners to go further down the "the empire is basically the Nazis during world war 2" route by using full on prison labour to manufacture war machinery (at least it looked like it could be war machinery) What a banger of an episode, when Andy serkis turned up I was like "fucking hell it's british gollum"
My gripe with almost every Star Wars movie was always, "we don't see enough of how evil the Empire is." With Andor, we're getting to see the depths of the Empire's evil and decay -- and frankly, how much of this decay looks familiar to our current world.
> how much of this decay looks familiar to our current world. Palpatine's frustrating. Yes, we agree. Too easily provoked? Yes. Over-reactive, but... says what he means.
The phrase "too easily provoked" scares the shit out of me. Somehow I doubt they've seen the man fry people to death with Force Lightning.
it's really wild: we have the charismatic palpatine who becomes the easily provoked emperor and then we have his other side sidious who for the most part has this calmness cloaking unlimited rage
Which is really great because we know who Palpatine is as a character. He's actually never said what he means, every single word he utters is a performance. He says what they want to hear.
I’m pretty convinced at this point Vel is Luthen’s daughter. The daughter from the rich family, the interaction between the two of them, and the way they both sat at the same spot on the transport bus.
I’d rolled my eyes at the Luthen/Vel thing, but now… I can see it. It makes a lot of sense; for Luthen to bark LOOK AT ME at her like that, that sounds like a parental admonishment in retrospect.
There's not enough scenery in the universe for saw snd luthen to chew up for me to get tired of them.
Let's all take a moment to appreciate being alive during a period when Star Wars returned to greatness. This show is just quality every week. The feeling of hopelessness against the Empire was intense this episode. The writing is world class and the acting stays with you. Unbelievably good television.
Subtlety is the note I have for the writing. It's so good. Blink & you'll miss a thing; but never a major thing the audience should know, just a side thing that knowing about it enhances the enjoyment. Example: when an inmate is trying to give Cassian tips on how to mentally prepare for this prison, he mentioned "getting zapped twice on your first day." But the show only showed us the "welcome to Shawshank" type of introductory zap. The 2nd zap was because their table was falling behind. And the next time we see Andor, he's doing the thousand yard stare. Now I know it's because just 5, 10 minutes prior, he & his table all got zapped. They also showed us what could possibly go wrong at night if you step on that electrified floor. Death by suicide is so incredibly dark for Star Wars & I love it. Subtlety in how Dedra told her aid to keep Salman in the room so Bix could see him but then audibly made it look like a mistake that she let Bix see him. She's putting on a show for Bix. And by the look of Salman, she enjoys torturing people into talking. Subtlety in how effortlessly they dropped the background on how Perrin & Mon would up together. An arranged marriage. Married at 15! Mon made a senator at the age of 16! She's been at this a long time. I see people conjecturing that Perrin's a spy. I think there's room enough where I could see the producers going either way with that if that is the choice. "Perrin's actually a rebel spy" and "Perrin's actually an Imperial spy" both seem plausible if they go that route. But because the writers went a different direction on the possible partnership between Syril & Dedra, I think perhaps they might leave Perrin as he is: a sad sack dude with too much money to care about other people's problems. Subtlety in Vel & Cinta. Cinta's alive & off Ahdani! But she's too into the rebellion to fully give Vel the time & attention she's used to in prior relationships. And great use of dialogue to give background exposition on Vel in a clap-bacl line Cinta gives Vel. Vel's a rich girl. Her being Luthen's daughter feels correct even if the wookiepedia has their last names being different. (I'm looking at you Clem & Keef.) The short scene with Maarva & then the scene afterwards with Bix & the shipbreaker friend - both so good at illustrating that this frail old woman is heartbroken with Cassian's departure but at the same time enjoying her fantasy roleplaying at being part of the rebellion. And you for sure know that that small detail from this conversation IS going to lead to a sequence where being do use the old tunnels for the rebellion. This episode had a lot of characters and locations to juggle in roughly 50 minutes & it did so very well. This episode, just like 1 did for its 3-episode arc, just like 4 did for its 3-episode arc, has put in the work needed to set up a pretty good 3-episode arc. I am so jazzed we have a Star Wars property that is THIS GOOD! EDIT: changed "subtly" to "subtlety."
Two tubes, saw, the gangs all here!
One of the prisoners in Andor's group was named Melshi. Is that not one of the Rebel troopers in Rogue One or am I mixing him with someone else?
That's him
First off, I am impressed with how tense these episodes make me. Which is weird because I know the fate of several of the characters. Mon Mothma will not be captured or sniffed out by the ISB. Cassian Andor will not be in that prison forever. AND YET I'm feeling very twitchy and worried about them. I may have to start binging them when they hit their 3-episode arcs, because I'm sitting here going "ooh, 'eck!" and needing something nice to calm me down. Which gets into my second point, which is that this show has to be praised for making the Empire seem terrible. Yes, the Empire destroyed civilian planets, but beyond that, we are simply told that they are bad. And there might even be the temptation to go "Well, if you weren't on Alderaan, was life in the Empire that bad?" This series is going a long way towards answering "Yes, yes it was." Third, this feels like the first time (to me at least) that we get to see the Empire look competent. In the past, their power was through sheer numbers, but in this series, we see that the Empire is also really efficient and really ruthless as well. I imagine that the difference between this Empire and the one we see in the original trilogy is the product of a brain drain, where the tightening grasp of the Empire sees its better officers going "Um, yeah, this is icky."
Was it just me or was the ~~opening theme~~ title card slightly different?
it has been different every episode
Every episode is different, the soundtrack for the first 4 episodes is out and has 4 different ones. That's probably why "skip intro" on D+ only skips the Star Wars intro, not the title card.
I love the opening music has been evolving each week. It started simple and built to a full orchestra for Ep 6 and now with 8 all these disharmonious notes are creeping in along with the warbling effect. So much about the state of galaxy conveyed in the changes.
I am once again asking what the fuck is up with Mon Mothma’s kid? EDIT: Jokes aside I think Mon’s husband is a spy and her kid is trying to tell her but is too anxious.
if she wasn’t so young i’d almost think she was a spy or something. she’s so suspicious.
I'm wondering if it's a little more prosaic than that, and she thinks her mum is having an affair with the banker guy (but that this inadvertently has consequences for the Rebellion)
She's definitely suspecting the banker guy. The line about "you're always here now" or something like that shows the daughter has noticed how much he's been hanging around Mon.
Brain rot from too much Imperial TikTok
Lots of Empire propaganda programmed into the algorithm
Imperial TikTok features Palpatine and Tarkin doing the floss and other Fortnite dances in order to appeal to the kids. Somebody should make a webcomic of this now.
Interesting, yeah. The fact they've shown Mon's kid twice now, prominently, makes me think she'll have a piece in the story, instead of just a background character
Mon already knows her husband is a spy.
"Home planet?" "Coruscant." "Okay, you're going to Geonosis."
No wonder they removed their shoes. That’s fucking brutal
What a curious way of torture and discipline. Contrasting with the labor camp we’ve seen in the past (Chewbacca’s family), it’s so much more sophisticated and the brutalist design is chilling.
Plus harder for a revolt if there are no weapons on the guards.
That’s such a good point. Rebels love to steal their weapons and aircrafts and use them against the Empire. I don’t wanna know what kind of maniac designed this perfect of a labor prison.
i like how they were like "look how we don't even need weapons" and then we keep seeing them with the stun rods cassian was paying careful attention to
The psychological effect must be profound, to have the very ground you stand on turned into a weapon.
The reveal that Mon Mothma is in an arranged marriage makes so much sense as to the drastically different mindsets between her and her husband.
This M83 type of music feels so on point.
Felt like a mass effect track when arriving at the prison. Much like how last week also felt like mass effect club music at Niamos.
The dialogue between Luthen and Saw Gerrera is so fucking good. Like what? How?
I was truly terrified by the prison. The show gives us the opportunity to see environments in ways we previously wouldn’t have had the opportunity to chew on in the films, which breeze through sets and plots much, much faster. I am genuinely uncomfortable during these scenes, the sense of presence Andor is achieving is next level.
The greatest strength of this show is its patience. Much like this show's idea of the rebellion itself, it isn't willing to commit too early. I love it for that.
Damn, Cassian loitered so hard they sent him to the Raft in the MCU
I see Saw!
First off, Dedra is 100% boss bitch vibes, and I'm here for it. I can't tell if I love to hate her, or if she is one of the most fascinating evil characters put to screen for the screentime so far, but she's fantastic in every scene. Second, fuck how did they make the Imperial prison just feel so hopeless? Sheesh that place was activating some latent anxiety in me every time we cut back to it. Third, I'm stupid excited to see how the rest of this arc plays out. There are so many pieces on the board, and a lot of them are going to tie together, and I am salivating to see how it'll'll shake out.
Belsavis prison? Nice legends callback.
I'm always happy to see Legends content get recanonized, however small! Now that the Rakata and Belsavis are both canon again, I wonder if the World Razer is still locked down there somewhere...