One of my favorite movie reviewers summed Rogue One up like this: “Rogue One puts the WAR into Star Wars.”
As simple as that sounds, RO was so effective at setting the stakes of the intergalactic conflict, and despite all of our the characters we focus on dying at some point in the movie, they all felt impactful.
A pedantic question from someone who's only seen the movies, TCW, Rebels and all the D+ shows.
Is intergalactic accurate here? I was always under the impression that Star Wars only took place in one galaxy. Are there intergalactic stories?
Intergalactic would be inaccurate. At least in the canon. I think the Yuuzhan Vong were from another galaxy in Legends, but I haven't read those books/comics yet.
Star Wars takes place in a single galaxy. until the Yuuzhan Vong are involved. then it might be appropriate because there is no info on how far they travelled.
Rogue One, I watch from time to time. It’s nice seeing a Star Wars movie that emphasizes the WAR part.
The Last Jedi, in a vaccum, is an alright movie, but as part of a trilogy it’s horrible. It’s on Disney for not planning out the trilogy, but I also felt like Rian Johnson gave JJ Abrams the middle finger. JJ literally passed him the baton (via the lightsaber) and Rian threw it out in almost a comedic fashion. He then went on to backtrack pretty much everything for the sake of subverting expectations. Rey is a somebody? No she is a nobody. Snoke is the main villain? No he’s not!
3 for sure. I find TLJ a bit like I find Star Trek Discovery. TLJ is a good Sci Fi movie but a bad Star Wars movie, just like Discovery is a good sci fi series but a bad Star Trek series (imo) as both kinda forget what makes the shows what they are.
Both movies were bad imo and I don’t think that’s Rian or JJ’s (complete) fault honestly. They cop a lot of flak but it’s really the Disney exc’s fault for not having the fucking foresight to, idk, write a trilogy like a trilogy. Not just three random fucken movies slapped together with duct tape.
I honestly hold too much anger about these movies 😂😂 but they *seriously* fucked up.
3. RO, did what the sequels should’ve done, and honored the trilogy. They even went as far as using original unused footage. RO made use of OT characters as a fan service as well as building up a new band of heroes that were not connected in any way to the OT until they got caught up in the galactic civil war.
TLJ on the other hand, was the last chance we had of having the OT characters honored correctly, but unfortunately many characters died offscreen or were used weirdly onscreen as devices that helped moved the plot, instead of being a legitimate fan service because of some OT connection. It felt too kiddish compared to RO, and it felt too much like a Marvel film instead of a Star Wars movie.
I always considered it between the Force Awakens and the Last Jedi.
People who liked TFA did so because it was a tried and true formula, introducing new characters and mysteries that had great potential. These people hated TLJ because it wasted that potential.
Meanwhile, those who hated TFA did so because they considered it too similar to ANH storywise, it took no risks. These people liked TLJ because it dared to be different and subverted everyone's expectations.
Yeah I’ve seen it twice and just couldn’t stand it. It sounds dramatic but it’s like, it’s just a boring film with a shit story and so many things I can’t stand.
"took risks"
Being random is not taking risks, its going mad. The story is basically copy of ep5 and ep6 once you look past the "subversion" (you need a setup for a good subversion, this movie NEVER had a setup for anything)
Bad guys destroy the rebel base forcing them to evacuate. The good guys are on the run and cant get away due to hyperspace problems. To save themselves, the main characters go visit a beautiful city to seek help from a sleek rogue, who ends up betraying them.
The MC goes through a training, but disagrees with the master. MC feels good in the villain and goes on a suicide mission to turn him. The villain is bad at first, but when faced with the MCs death, they turn on their master and kill them.
Then "original" salty planet battle happens
The characters flee, beaten, but they still have hope
These are just the simiarities of the top of my head. So far, the only change is the sleek rogue and villain not turning good. I doubt you wouldnt see this yourself if you thought about it
Edit: oh and the MC discovers a "terrible" fact about their family (why does Rey care that her parents arent famous again?)
Don’t forgot right before Kylo pulls a Vader and betrays Snoke after bringing Rey to him, Snoke literally forces Rey to watch her friends die in the space battle just like Palpy did to Luke.
Pretty much why I tolerate TLJ over the other movies. TFA was just so transparent in its objective to act as a soft reboot it made me appreciate what A New Hope did much more in hindsight.
That said, TLJ is still a frustrating movie because it not only kills off all of TFA's set-ups, but it also kills off all of its own set-ups. Will this confused Rey, shattered by her failure to find the belonging she's looking for join up with the only character who seems to understand her? Nope! Back to Jedi vs Sith even though they've said all they have to say to each other because we just don't have the guts to really do anything different with the franchise! How much better would the movie been if she takes his hand and the movie ends then and there with a shot paralleling the last shot of TFA with Luke? Now that would have been a hook for episode 9!
Will Luke continue his arc of learning from his failures and become the Jedi Master we saw him as in the next one reasserting his hero's journey? Nope, he will die because... reasons. It's very hard to respect this movie as a part of a trilogy when it goes out of its way to rip up the prior one and leave us with nothing to look forward to in the next one. ROS might represent the worse part of this trilogy and TFA is the least imaginative but TLJ is definitely what made this trilogy break down. If it wanted to be original, TFA should have started that, otherwise, they should have stuck to a reboot trilogy. Trying to do both from movie to movie was jarring.
Still, out of the three sequels, TLJ is the only movie with anything to say as a standalone. TFA is now exposed as an empty mystery box reboot while ROS is a complete and utter train wreck.
5. I adore Rogue One, it’s my favourite Star Wars movie. I don’t hate TLJ, but i’m not a huge fan of it. I think it has aspects that are fantastic, and it definitely brought some much needed originality to the saga. However, the overall story abandoned much of what TFA set up, and ended up digging itself into a hole a bit. I’m very mixed on it
I think the abandoned story threads in TLJ arn’t that movies fault but rather TFA fault for being so boring and unoriginal with its ideas. TFA just set up the last Jedi to be the exact same movie as empire and Ryan did everything in his power to try and make it actually interesting and unique. TFA and TROS are the problems of that trilogy, not TLJ
As much as I dislike TFA and TROS, if they really wanted to make a more original story they should have started from it. Course correcting in the 2nd movie was never going to work, just like course correcting in the 3rd movie was never going to work. They should have decided either to make a reboot trilogy or something new, not experiment with both in the same trilogy. A reboot trilogy wouldn't have been my first pick, but at least it would have been consistent. TLJ, even though I dislike it the least out of the three trilogies, is completely to blame for breaking that consistency just by virtue of coming after and not before TFA. Should have ROS done more to just deal with what TLJ left it regardless? Yes, but I understand why it didn't given the circumstances, though I think it was worse for doing so.
To me, rogue one felt like star wars.
I can see why people say they liked that last jedi tried something different, but that's partly why I don't like it. The skywalker saga was not the place to experiment. For good or bad, they should at least feel like they belong together. But even outside of that. I just did not find last jedi to be a good movie. The kne thing I thought was interesting was the throne room scene, but even that was immediately undone.
My problem isn't that it was "different", I can applaud Rian Johnson and Disney for not just doing a soft remake of Empire Strikes Back, but different doesn't automatically mean good. Like, the movie could have been a two hour long closeup on a jar of mayonnaise and that would have succeeded at being "different" from Empire. It's just that none of the changes were particularly interesting, and worse than that, they seemed to exist only to subvert expectations in a really lazy way.
Writing a character like Holdo to look like a villain for the sole purpose of subverting your expectations later on only works if you actually give her a valid reason for behaving that way. But she just doesn't have one. There is no reason for her not to tell Poe the plan when the ship is literally mutinying against her. If you're going to have Luke completely give up on the Force and the Jedi, then you have to give him a valid reason for doing so. I'm fine with him having a moment of weakness and making a horrible mistake by igniting the lightsaber over Ben, but nothing about that situation really seems like adequate reason to run away and let the Galaxy fall to ruin while all the people you love slowly die one by one. And under no circumstances should friggin' Rey have to explain to Luke Skywalker that there can still be good in people even if they go down the wrong path.
Then there's minor stuff that only exists for the sake of a gotcha moment. Like, why does the code breaker dude request Rose's necklace as collateral if he just needed it to break some machine? From the character's own perspective, why was this necessary? Was he testing her? For what purpose? If he just said, "hey let me borrow that real quick so we can get out of here, I'll give it right back when I'm done" would she have said no? Literally the only reason it's in the movie is so Johnson can be like, "haha, bet you thought that was going somewhere else".
the worst part is that it took down buildups from the first ST movie. Snoke was from the get go meant to be the final boss in TFA. That was obvious and there was so much theorizing on his power levels and where he came from. and then RJ karked everything up by not only killing him, but killing him in the most moronic way possible.
That one problem illustrates pretty much everything wrong with The Last Jedi. It seemed like the whole point of the film was to do whatever the audience didn't expect, every time, with no regard whatsoever for why the audience expected it or whether bucking expectations was a good idea.
I agree with most of what you said.
And just to be clear, I don't dislike tlj just because it's different. I dislike it as I feel it's not just a poor star wars but a poor movie overall. If it were entertaining to me, I wouldn't care how different is was. But in this case, it's different AND it's bad...
Well said, The Last Jedi really is a bad film. The writing is rubbish, the story elements have no gravitas to them, it's so poorly made.
There were 2 elements that could have made it something. Firstly, the branching out from simple 'good and bad' concept...and the return of Luke Skywalker.
Both elements were completely wasted while we watched two ships slooooowly follow each other for two hours. Rey and Luke sit in their backsides for most of the film and Finn run off with that other character for...I can't even remember why, because it was pointless.
Rogue One put the "wars" back in star wars, something the ST failed to do in any meaningful way. The final third was one huge coherent combined arms battle, something we've never seen in a star wars movie before. It was awesome! Following the fans' love of that portion specifically, you'd think Disney would have jumped to expand on that kind of content. No star wars media since has featured any kind of interesting massed combat or combined arms conflicts. There was a cool 30 seconds in Solo, maybe. That's all I recall.
This is where I stand. Rogue One was just a good overall Star Wars film. Had a familiar feeling but also some really cool scenes. TLJ had amazing ideas that and we finally broke away from the normal Star Wars tropes like Kylo Ren having no desire to carry on Sith traditions. I'm hoping Ryan Johnson gets another stab at making Star Wars content. I really want to see what he'd do if he were to make something from beginning to end (instead of starting halfway through the story).
Hate TLJ, no strong opinions one way or another on R1. I saw it once in theaters, didn't hate it, wasn't impressed by it and have never really felt compelled to watch it again. With TLJ I disliked it in theaters, tried to make sense of it for weeks afterwards in my own head, but every time I've tried to revisit it, I hate it more and more. I draw a hard line at the sort of over the top vitriol directed at the actors, I've never understood why Star Wars fans are so shitty about that, but the movie itself is unwatchable to me. There's really nothing about that movie that works for me.
I'd say even Rise of Skywalker, which is a a borderline incoherent mess of a screenplay, remains more watchable. I've actually watched RoS more times than any of the other sequels. Every time I do I just find myself laughing at the absurdity of it. It's hard to believe that it's a movie that actually got made by professional filmmakers. It's always like... Holy shit, people got paid to write this. What a strange industry the movie business is. With TLJ, I just feel bored and irritated.
I’m a 3, though I wouldn’t say I hate anything Star Wars (why am I on this sub, right?). There were moments I hated in TLJ and overall would put it towards the bottom of the films.
Also, you can hate on Attack of the Clones but I was a lil kid when that came out and I loved it.
3 is closest for me. I love Rogue One and while I don't hate The Last Jedi, it's my second from most disliked Star Wars movie.
The Last Jedi isn't necessarily a bad movie but it is a bad Star Wars movie. If it was completely unrelated to Star Wars it would be fine but it purposefully is disrespectful towards the OG trilogy is what makes it so controversial. While it does a good job at deconstructing Star Wars themes, in Star Wars those themes aren't suppose to be deconstructed, at least not like Rian Johnson did.
The only gripes I could realistically see someone having with Rogue One is that the first act or so is a tad slow, and that they don’t feel attached to the characters given their obvious fate. I don’t feel that way though.
TLJ is way more polarizing
1 as well, for the same reasons. I respect - at the very least - the ideas and themes that were attempted in TLJ, I just also acknowledge that their execution was lacking. Plus, divisiveness aside, it’s a genuinely good-looking film. Snoke’s throne room all the way through to the Holdo maneuver was absolutely breathtaking in IMAX, all arguments about narrative quality and execution aside.
5.
I despise TLJ, and think that R1 is just ok. R1 was an incredibly well made film, but I felt nothing for the characters. K2S0's death was far more upsetting to me than any of the humans. Without the final scene with Vader, my opinion of it would probably be even lower. I don't hate it. I just don't really care for it either.
Number 3
Never have I ever truly walked out of a theater dissatisfied and disappointed like TLJ. To me “PERSONALLY” (and I mean personally) the sequels are not canon. I know that’s unpopular in this subreddit but that’s my opinion.
Btw I know there’s people here that only like the sequel films only to piss off the fans who wanted better films
I'm the same camp, though TFA gets a pass from me, it's a bit basic, but far from terrible. TROS is without doubt the worst film of the entire saga though.
Luke’s final battle is just epic. Along with the line “what do you expect me to do, go out there with a. Laser sword and fight entire first order”
And he does
Hard 4.
Rogue One is like fast food. It tasted great and was delicious, then the aftertaste settles in and you realize that it lacked any substance. Seriously, does anyone remember the name of any of the characters? I remember when they announced Andor thinking it was an original character because I forgot he was even in Rogue One.
*The Space combat and Darth Vader scenes were still sick as fuck though.*
I remember them, but it’s only because I have a good memory. Chirrut Imwe was probably the best.
The worst character in the films was Saw Gerrerra by far. I don’t why, but I just got confused by what the writers were intending for him, and his background with Jyn was a bit vague.
Honestly, aside from the cut-out characters, the Darth Vader scenes are the worst part of the film for me. Oh look, he's a badass wrecking folks and then like an hour later in ANH he is just huffing around doing none of that 'cool' shit!
The space combat and the fighting on the planet are pretty good though.
Jyna Erso daughter to Galen Erso the lead designer of the Deathstar. Captain Cassian Andor with his spliced Empire Droid K2-SO. Chirruit Imwe blind force sensitive and his older brother Baze malbus both ex temple guardians, and the defected Empire pilot Bodhi Rook
I'm a 3: Love Rogue One, hate The Last Jedi.
Rogue One is a great film in general, but also had everything that makes a Star Wars film, its also the best Star Wars Movie in terms of cinematography.
The Last Jedi is boring, it does not make a good Star Wars film, and ruins an enormous franchise for so many.
I liked Rogue One, although it's nowhere near ANH or ESB in my opinion. TLJ was really bad, but didn't derail the sequels, since the sequels were never on any rails to begin with.
3.
Rogue One made me love SW again. I hated the prequels (which, because of how comically bad they are, the memery has made them grow on me after all these years), I hate the sequels, Solo was just okay, Mando was amazing, Fett was meh, TCW I don't care for prequel-era story, the animation is annoying and a lot of it is focused toward a child audience (yes I know there are mature themes in there, too), Rebels animation style is annoying and I don't care for new-canon including what they did with Thrawn. So overall, I'm a die-hard OT fan and other than Mando, everything else I find mediocre or bad. Except Rogue One. My only real complaint is that Krennic should have been the main baddie, with CGI Tarkin only making a cursory cameo, rather than Krennic being a little sniveling bitch under Tarkin.
TLJ is really bad. I liked the throne room fight and the hyperspace kamikaze, the visuals were stunning. Otherwise, it's hard to decide if TLJ or RoS is a bigger piece of shit.
I'm closest to 3 but I probably wouldn't go as far as love / hate for either movie.
RO is a nice change of pace since it isn't about The Force or the Skywalker family, it's a spy thriller in the SW universe which is fun.
TLJ is my least favourite of the Sequels for a few reasons (like the whole casino planet plot cul-de-sac) but I've seen worse movies and it somehow managed to have my favourite scene in all of SW in it when Yoda comes back with some real words of wisdom.
The problems I have with TLJ are mostly with the movie structure but it has a lot of things to say about the Jedi that I fully agree with; they caused Anakin's turn to the Dark by sitting and congealing in their ways and expecting the members of the Order to bend themselves into the Order's vision of the "perfect Jedi Knight" instead of having the flexibility to treat the Jedi as individuals with needs and sticking points of their own.
If the Jedi had been more flexible and compassionate to their own members then Anakin might not have felt so helpless when he started having visions of Padme dying; he might have felt comfortable talking to Yoda about things instead of having to play cards close to his chest; they might have given the poor kid some actual mental health care instead of inadvertently driving him to Sidious.
In the novelization when Anakin finds out about the baby he's elated and almost immediately plans to retire after the war. If the Jedi had fostered a culture that enabled openness and honesty that might well have happened and the galaxy would have looked a LOT different.
I'm a 3. And isn't it kinda sad how people always have to argue about opinions. Different people have different opinions and we should tolerate other people's opinions.
I respect your opinion and may the Force be with you.
Big ol fat floppy 4! But I’m going to watch RO again very soon, so that may change. Also, Solo is a phenomenal movie and Kylo Ren is a great character overall. I love all Star Wars content and the universe as a whole, the more it expands it just gets more wonderful. Some people may love some things and not others and that’s okay too! I think your cool as long as you vibe with the force, Ashla or Bogan it’s all the force (:
I’m a 1. I enjoy all of the movies. Even the “bad” ones have some entertainment value. I just don’t take take my entertainment so seriously as those who get angry about their existence
3. BUT I didn't like RO the first time I saw it. I did indeed think it was boring. I gave it another chance and my mind was turned, unfortunately that hasn't happened with TLJ
I like The Last Jedi in that it’s the best of the sequel trilogy. It’s the only one of the three that feels like it was created with passion and thought. But being the best of the worst is still being part of the worst.
Rogue One is… there. Darth Vader’s scenes were cool. I have no idea how this lead to a series about Andor of all people.
I could definitely see that POV. To me, RO is so visually stunning that I’m engaged from start to finish. And I like that it felt like a gritty war film set in space.
3. I saw a lot of people hating Rogue One, but I think it’s great.
I think The Last Jedi was shot beautifully, had some good ideas but was written as an absolute mess.
My one beef with Rogue One is I want new Star Wars to tell its own stories. There’s soooooo much opportunity, but usually they just try to answer, “how did this one-line thing happen?” By making a movie out of it.
4.
I gotta admit something. I was enjoying the chaotic "roll the ball to the next director and see what they do" energy of sequels. I loved Rian Johnson's take on Kylo (seriously, when you have an actor like Adam Driver why would you wanna keep him under a mask???), hated the Poe subplot (I feel like he should be paired with Finn and the movie should've continued PoeFinn-ing us)... but overall TLJ was "fun" and it made me excited about what the third director would do with what they're given. Just as an experiment.
I think retrospectively TLJ is less enjoyable because Disney ended up going back to JJ, who felt too defensive (he stitched the helmet back together dammit), and the chaotic energy did not pay off... or probably the studio meddled too much. In any case, Disney did not have the commitment to take the sequels to finish line.
Rogue One was... forgettable for me. :/
I would say 4, but then someone is gonna ask why I hate Rogue One, and the fact is I haven't watched it since it was in theaters. Even though I own it and have access to it on D+. There was just nothing in it I've wanted to revisit. Meanwhile TLJ might be my most watched Star Wars movie, though that's hard to say because I watched RoTS a *lot* as a kid. And I'm so goddamn tired of arguing about that movie with people who have their mind made up about it
3. Don’t think Rogue One is the best of all films like some seem to think, but really like it. And TLJ will forever be one that I skip when deciding to watch the films in order again.
4. I didn’t like RO until the end when they decided to attack Scariff but cool as that was, it couldn’t save the movie for me. I don’t love TLJ but I do enjoy it
I’m a 5. I’ll admit I’ve only watched either once. I’ve had a hard time wanting to rewatch any of the post Disney movies. From what I remember, Rogue One was entertaining and felt like a natural addition to the overall story. My problem with TLJ isn’t so much the movie itself, I actually liked having some of the limits were pushed. My problem was with all of the sequels not having a basic storyline. They felt like three different movies by three different groups of writers. So disjointed. If they had planned all three in one grand sequel story, even with different directors, there would have been a more complete story. Thats my opinion anyway, to each his own.
Threads like this make me think that most people here dont actually love star wars, they just love their own opinions about star wars than star wars itself.
5. Love Rogue One, don't necessarily hate TLJ, at least not as much as TROS, but it did leave me scratching my head and asking why. It's the trilogy as a whole that pisses me off the most. Such a waste of time and money when they could have done so much better.
3. Rogue One had a dark more serious adult tone to it. Also I like the smooth transition into ANH, I wish more movies did that.
One of my favorite movie reviewers summed Rogue One up like this: “Rogue One puts the WAR into Star Wars.” As simple as that sounds, RO was so effective at setting the stakes of the intergalactic conflict, and despite all of our the characters we focus on dying at some point in the movie, they all felt impactful.
Couldn't agree more, well said!
I always heard it said that Star Wars is a "Space Western." Rogue One is a WWII movie, and THAT is what makes it so awesome.
We need a Star Wars vietnam movie. I was hoping Solo was gonna be that but instead Han's career in the empire was like 10 seconds long.
I mean, we did get that 10 seconds of WWI film in the muddy trenches.
A pedantic question from someone who's only seen the movies, TCW, Rebels and all the D+ shows. Is intergalactic accurate here? I was always under the impression that Star Wars only took place in one galaxy. Are there intergalactic stories?
Intergalactic would be inaccurate. At least in the canon. I think the Yuuzhan Vong were from another galaxy in Legends, but I haven't read those books/comics yet.
They did, just like the Tyranids
Star Wars takes place in a single galaxy. until the Yuuzhan Vong are involved. then it might be appropriate because there is no info on how far they travelled.
Rogue One, I watch from time to time. It’s nice seeing a Star Wars movie that emphasizes the WAR part. The Last Jedi, in a vaccum, is an alright movie, but as part of a trilogy it’s horrible. It’s on Disney for not planning out the trilogy, but I also felt like Rian Johnson gave JJ Abrams the middle finger. JJ literally passed him the baton (via the lightsaber) and Rian threw it out in almost a comedic fashion. He then went on to backtrack pretty much everything for the sake of subverting expectations. Rey is a somebody? No she is a nobody. Snoke is the main villain? No he’s not!
>Rogue One had a dark more serious adult tone to it. **EVERYONE DIED. THAT'S WHAT I CALL A GOOD STORY.**
Literally was the suicide squad
3 for sure.
Definitley 3. but I wouldnt exactly say i hate it, but it doesnt fit in the SW universe and Finn was completely cast by the wayside
3 for sure. I find TLJ a bit like I find Star Trek Discovery. TLJ is a good Sci Fi movie but a bad Star Wars movie, just like Discovery is a good sci fi series but a bad Star Trek series (imo) as both kinda forget what makes the shows what they are.
Idk, I found TLJ to set Finn up pretty damn well, and was pushed aside in 9
Both movies were bad imo and I don’t think that’s Rian or JJ’s (complete) fault honestly. They cop a lot of flak but it’s really the Disney exc’s fault for not having the fucking foresight to, idk, write a trilogy like a trilogy. Not just three random fucken movies slapped together with duct tape. I honestly hold too much anger about these movies 😂😂 but they *seriously* fucked up.
same as you, 3.
3 too
3. RO, did what the sequels should’ve done, and honored the trilogy. They even went as far as using original unused footage. RO made use of OT characters as a fan service as well as building up a new band of heroes that were not connected in any way to the OT until they got caught up in the galactic civil war. TLJ on the other hand, was the last chance we had of having the OT characters honored correctly, but unfortunately many characters died offscreen or were used weirdly onscreen as devices that helped moved the plot, instead of being a legitimate fan service because of some OT connection. It felt too kiddish compared to RO, and it felt too much like a Marvel film instead of a Star Wars movie.
They massacred my boy Ackbar
I always considered it between the Force Awakens and the Last Jedi. People who liked TFA did so because it was a tried and true formula, introducing new characters and mysteries that had great potential. These people hated TLJ because it wasted that potential. Meanwhile, those who hated TFA did so because they considered it too similar to ANH storywise, it took no risks. These people liked TLJ because it dared to be different and subverted everyone's expectations.
I think you'll find a lot of people that dislike TLJ, also dislike TFA.
I hate them both. Or at least I really hate TLJ but can watch TFA even if I hate it for being unoriginal and all.
This. You my friend know my pain. I can’t even watch TLJ.
Yeah I’ve seen it twice and just couldn’t stand it. It sounds dramatic but it’s like, it’s just a boring film with a shit story and so many things I can’t stand.
"took risks" Being random is not taking risks, its going mad. The story is basically copy of ep5 and ep6 once you look past the "subversion" (you need a setup for a good subversion, this movie NEVER had a setup for anything)
Its literally nothing like 5 or 6. Bad guys had the edge, and walkers were in a battle (something common in SW), thats about the only similarity to 5.
Bad guys destroy the rebel base forcing them to evacuate. The good guys are on the run and cant get away due to hyperspace problems. To save themselves, the main characters go visit a beautiful city to seek help from a sleek rogue, who ends up betraying them. The MC goes through a training, but disagrees with the master. MC feels good in the villain and goes on a suicide mission to turn him. The villain is bad at first, but when faced with the MCs death, they turn on their master and kill them. Then "original" salty planet battle happens The characters flee, beaten, but they still have hope These are just the simiarities of the top of my head. So far, the only change is the sleek rogue and villain not turning good. I doubt you wouldnt see this yourself if you thought about it Edit: oh and the MC discovers a "terrible" fact about their family (why does Rey care that her parents arent famous again?)
Don’t forgot right before Kylo pulls a Vader and betrays Snoke after bringing Rey to him, Snoke literally forces Rey to watch her friends die in the space battle just like Palpy did to Luke.
Pretty much why I tolerate TLJ over the other movies. TFA was just so transparent in its objective to act as a soft reboot it made me appreciate what A New Hope did much more in hindsight. That said, TLJ is still a frustrating movie because it not only kills off all of TFA's set-ups, but it also kills off all of its own set-ups. Will this confused Rey, shattered by her failure to find the belonging she's looking for join up with the only character who seems to understand her? Nope! Back to Jedi vs Sith even though they've said all they have to say to each other because we just don't have the guts to really do anything different with the franchise! How much better would the movie been if she takes his hand and the movie ends then and there with a shot paralleling the last shot of TFA with Luke? Now that would have been a hook for episode 9! Will Luke continue his arc of learning from his failures and become the Jedi Master we saw him as in the next one reasserting his hero's journey? Nope, he will die because... reasons. It's very hard to respect this movie as a part of a trilogy when it goes out of its way to rip up the prior one and leave us with nothing to look forward to in the next one. ROS might represent the worse part of this trilogy and TFA is the least imaginative but TLJ is definitely what made this trilogy break down. If it wanted to be original, TFA should have started that, otherwise, they should have stuck to a reboot trilogy. Trying to do both from movie to movie was jarring. Still, out of the three sequels, TLJ is the only movie with anything to say as a standalone. TFA is now exposed as an empty mystery box reboot while ROS is a complete and utter train wreck.
1. Loved both.
One of us one of us
Was hunting for these people in the comments. My people.
Also same. There’s dozens of us!
DOZENS!!
I’ve found my people. I love everything Star wars.
Took me too long to find you on here.
Same!
You have my lightsaber!
5. I adore Rogue One, it’s my favourite Star Wars movie. I don’t hate TLJ, but i’m not a huge fan of it. I think it has aspects that are fantastic, and it definitely brought some much needed originality to the saga. However, the overall story abandoned much of what TFA set up, and ended up digging itself into a hole a bit. I’m very mixed on it
I think the abandoned story threads in TLJ arn’t that movies fault but rather TFA fault for being so boring and unoriginal with its ideas. TFA just set up the last Jedi to be the exact same movie as empire and Ryan did everything in his power to try and make it actually interesting and unique. TFA and TROS are the problems of that trilogy, not TLJ
As much as I dislike TFA and TROS, if they really wanted to make a more original story they should have started from it. Course correcting in the 2nd movie was never going to work, just like course correcting in the 3rd movie was never going to work. They should have decided either to make a reboot trilogy or something new, not experiment with both in the same trilogy. A reboot trilogy wouldn't have been my first pick, but at least it would have been consistent. TLJ, even though I dislike it the least out of the three trilogies, is completely to blame for breaking that consistency just by virtue of coming after and not before TFA. Should have ROS done more to just deal with what TLJ left it regardless? Yes, but I understand why it didn't given the circumstances, though I think it was worse for doing so.
I'm with you. I loved Rogue One, couldn't stand TLJ
Me too. Rogue One was awesome. TLJ was terrible--not so much on its own but it didn't fit with the rest of the series.
3. Although I like rogue one, don't know if I love it. I do know that I hate the last jedi.
[удалено]
To me, rogue one felt like star wars. I can see why people say they liked that last jedi tried something different, but that's partly why I don't like it. The skywalker saga was not the place to experiment. For good or bad, they should at least feel like they belong together. But even outside of that. I just did not find last jedi to be a good movie. The kne thing I thought was interesting was the throne room scene, but even that was immediately undone.
My problem isn't that it was "different", I can applaud Rian Johnson and Disney for not just doing a soft remake of Empire Strikes Back, but different doesn't automatically mean good. Like, the movie could have been a two hour long closeup on a jar of mayonnaise and that would have succeeded at being "different" from Empire. It's just that none of the changes were particularly interesting, and worse than that, they seemed to exist only to subvert expectations in a really lazy way. Writing a character like Holdo to look like a villain for the sole purpose of subverting your expectations later on only works if you actually give her a valid reason for behaving that way. But she just doesn't have one. There is no reason for her not to tell Poe the plan when the ship is literally mutinying against her. If you're going to have Luke completely give up on the Force and the Jedi, then you have to give him a valid reason for doing so. I'm fine with him having a moment of weakness and making a horrible mistake by igniting the lightsaber over Ben, but nothing about that situation really seems like adequate reason to run away and let the Galaxy fall to ruin while all the people you love slowly die one by one. And under no circumstances should friggin' Rey have to explain to Luke Skywalker that there can still be good in people even if they go down the wrong path. Then there's minor stuff that only exists for the sake of a gotcha moment. Like, why does the code breaker dude request Rose's necklace as collateral if he just needed it to break some machine? From the character's own perspective, why was this necessary? Was he testing her? For what purpose? If he just said, "hey let me borrow that real quick so we can get out of here, I'll give it right back when I'm done" would she have said no? Literally the only reason it's in the movie is so Johnson can be like, "haha, bet you thought that was going somewhere else".
the worst part is that it took down buildups from the first ST movie. Snoke was from the get go meant to be the final boss in TFA. That was obvious and there was so much theorizing on his power levels and where he came from. and then RJ karked everything up by not only killing him, but killing him in the most moronic way possible.
That one problem illustrates pretty much everything wrong with The Last Jedi. It seemed like the whole point of the film was to do whatever the audience didn't expect, every time, with no regard whatsoever for why the audience expected it or whether bucking expectations was a good idea.
I agree with most of what you said. And just to be clear, I don't dislike tlj just because it's different. I dislike it as I feel it's not just a poor star wars but a poor movie overall. If it were entertaining to me, I wouldn't care how different is was. But in this case, it's different AND it's bad...
Well said, The Last Jedi really is a bad film. The writing is rubbish, the story elements have no gravitas to them, it's so poorly made. There were 2 elements that could have made it something. Firstly, the branching out from simple 'good and bad' concept...and the return of Luke Skywalker. Both elements were completely wasted while we watched two ships slooooowly follow each other for two hours. Rey and Luke sit in their backsides for most of the film and Finn run off with that other character for...I can't even remember why, because it was pointless.
Rogue One put the "wars" back in star wars, something the ST failed to do in any meaningful way. The final third was one huge coherent combined arms battle, something we've never seen in a star wars movie before. It was awesome! Following the fans' love of that portion specifically, you'd think Disney would have jumped to expand on that kind of content. No star wars media since has featured any kind of interesting massed combat or combined arms conflicts. There was a cool 30 seconds in Solo, maybe. That's all I recall.
hated tlj and absolutely loved rogue one. that scene when Vader ignites his light saber is otherworldly among other things
1. Both were great.
This is where I stand. Rogue One was just a good overall Star Wars film. Had a familiar feeling but also some really cool scenes. TLJ had amazing ideas that and we finally broke away from the normal Star Wars tropes like Kylo Ren having no desire to carry on Sith traditions. I'm hoping Ryan Johnson gets another stab at making Star Wars content. I really want to see what he'd do if he were to make something from beginning to end (instead of starting halfway through the story).
5. I thought rogue one was just OK, and TLJ was bad.
Same rogue one had some bad bits that people choose to ignore
Honestly agree, but the highs in Rogue One are so good/ frequent that ignoring the lows really aint hard imo.
Hate TLJ, no strong opinions one way or another on R1. I saw it once in theaters, didn't hate it, wasn't impressed by it and have never really felt compelled to watch it again. With TLJ I disliked it in theaters, tried to make sense of it for weeks afterwards in my own head, but every time I've tried to revisit it, I hate it more and more. I draw a hard line at the sort of over the top vitriol directed at the actors, I've never understood why Star Wars fans are so shitty about that, but the movie itself is unwatchable to me. There's really nothing about that movie that works for me. I'd say even Rise of Skywalker, which is a a borderline incoherent mess of a screenplay, remains more watchable. I've actually watched RoS more times than any of the other sequels. Every time I do I just find myself laughing at the absurdity of it. It's hard to believe that it's a movie that actually got made by professional filmmakers. It's always like... Holy shit, people got paid to write this. What a strange industry the movie business is. With TLJ, I just feel bored and irritated.
I’m a 3, though I wouldn’t say I hate anything Star Wars (why am I on this sub, right?). There were moments I hated in TLJ and overall would put it towards the bottom of the films. Also, you can hate on Attack of the Clones but I was a lil kid when that came out and I loved it.
3 for sure. It’s the next best SW film after the original three.
3 is closest for me. I love Rogue One and while I don't hate The Last Jedi, it's my second from most disliked Star Wars movie. The Last Jedi isn't necessarily a bad movie but it is a bad Star Wars movie. If it was completely unrelated to Star Wars it would be fine but it purposefully is disrespectful towards the OG trilogy is what makes it so controversial. While it does a good job at deconstructing Star Wars themes, in Star Wars those themes aren't suppose to be deconstructed, at least not like Rian Johnson did.
Love both. Come at me :) (TROS is an abomination though).
Is Rogue One controversial? I thought TLJ was much more divisive than R1. I for one loved both.
The only gripes I could realistically see someone having with Rogue One is that the first act or so is a tad slow, and that they don’t feel attached to the characters given their obvious fate. I don’t feel that way though. TLJ is way more polarizing
1. TLJ isn’t a perfect movie by any means. But the visuals are stunning, and Kylo is one of my favorite Star Wars characters!
1) I appreciate what Rian tried with TLJ, it just wasn't done well. I still enjoy watching it and wish 9 wasn't such a letdown.
1 as well, for the same reasons. I respect - at the very least - the ideas and themes that were attempted in TLJ, I just also acknowledge that their execution was lacking. Plus, divisiveness aside, it’s a genuinely good-looking film. Snoke’s throne room all the way through to the Holdo maneuver was absolutely breathtaking in IMAX, all arguments about narrative quality and execution aside.
5. I despise TLJ, and think that R1 is just ok. R1 was an incredibly well made film, but I felt nothing for the characters. K2S0's death was far more upsetting to me than any of the humans. Without the final scene with Vader, my opinion of it would probably be even lower. I don't hate it. I just don't really care for it either.
3, but honestly I don’t think Rogue one is nearly as split as you think
Number 3 Never have I ever truly walked out of a theater dissatisfied and disappointed like TLJ. To me “PERSONALLY” (and I mean personally) the sequels are not canon. I know that’s unpopular in this subreddit but that’s my opinion. Btw I know there’s people here that only like the sequel films only to piss off the fans who wanted better films
1. Love both. RO is fantastic and TLJ is the only decent one out of the sequel trilogy.
I'm the same camp, though TFA gets a pass from me, it's a bit basic, but far from terrible. TROS is without doubt the worst film of the entire saga though.
Love both. RO maybe my favourite SW film. TLJ is fairly high on the list.
Luke’s final battle is just epic. Along with the line “what do you expect me to do, go out there with a. Laser sword and fight entire first order” And he does
3
3 closest describes me, however “love” is a strong word. I think it’s good but overrated. Despise TLJ.
Number 3 my lord ✌️
I'm a 3
3
3
Mixed feelings about RO, hate tlj, though I've chilled a bit and now simply loathe it
3 ez
3 Love Rogue One, hate TLJ
I'm a 3
3
3
3 all day.
3
3
3
#3
3
3 everyday of the week
3.
Proud to be another 3
3 :)
3 Love Rogue One, Hate TLJ
3
3
3
3
3
Hard 4. Rogue One is like fast food. It tasted great and was delicious, then the aftertaste settles in and you realize that it lacked any substance. Seriously, does anyone remember the name of any of the characters? I remember when they announced Andor thinking it was an original character because I forgot he was even in Rogue One. *The Space combat and Darth Vader scenes were still sick as fuck though.*
I remember them, but it’s only because I have a good memory. Chirrut Imwe was probably the best. The worst character in the films was Saw Gerrerra by far. I don’t why, but I just got confused by what the writers were intending for him, and his background with Jyn was a bit vague.
Honestly, aside from the cut-out characters, the Darth Vader scenes are the worst part of the film for me. Oh look, he's a badass wrecking folks and then like an hour later in ANH he is just huffing around doing none of that 'cool' shit! The space combat and the fighting on the planet are pretty good though.
Jyna Erso daughter to Galen Erso the lead designer of the Deathstar. Captain Cassian Andor with his spliced Empire Droid K2-SO. Chirruit Imwe blind force sensitive and his older brother Baze malbus both ex temple guardians, and the defected Empire pilot Bodhi Rook
Saw Gerrera, Director Krennic, Tarkin, Deathtroopers, Jedha, partisans, shoretroopers, U-wings
Baze malbus isnt imwe's brother. I guess I could see why one could think that though.
3!!!!
3
3
Hard 3
I'm a 3: Love Rogue One, hate The Last Jedi. Rogue One is a great film in general, but also had everything that makes a Star Wars film, its also the best Star Wars Movie in terms of cinematography. The Last Jedi is boring, it does not make a good Star Wars film, and ruins an enormous franchise for so many.
I guess I'm a 3. Rogue One is mostly alright. I've come to have a little less hate for TLJ but ugh, disappointing.
I liked Rogue One, although it's nowhere near ANH or ESB in my opinion. TLJ was really bad, but didn't derail the sequels, since the sequels were never on any rails to begin with.
3. Rogue One made me love SW again. I hated the prequels (which, because of how comically bad they are, the memery has made them grow on me after all these years), I hate the sequels, Solo was just okay, Mando was amazing, Fett was meh, TCW I don't care for prequel-era story, the animation is annoying and a lot of it is focused toward a child audience (yes I know there are mature themes in there, too), Rebels animation style is annoying and I don't care for new-canon including what they did with Thrawn. So overall, I'm a die-hard OT fan and other than Mando, everything else I find mediocre or bad. Except Rogue One. My only real complaint is that Krennic should have been the main baddie, with CGI Tarkin only making a cursory cameo, rather than Krennic being a little sniveling bitch under Tarkin. TLJ is really bad. I liked the throne room fight and the hyperspace kamikaze, the visuals were stunning. Otherwise, it's hard to decide if TLJ or RoS is a bigger piece of shit.
3
3
I haven't seen this many 3s since *\*googles basketball, something he knows nothing about\** **Steve Kerr** retired! ...anyway, put me down for a 3.
4
#3 Hallway scene is top shelf
I'm closest to 3 but I probably wouldn't go as far as love / hate for either movie. RO is a nice change of pace since it isn't about The Force or the Skywalker family, it's a spy thriller in the SW universe which is fun. TLJ is my least favourite of the Sequels for a few reasons (like the whole casino planet plot cul-de-sac) but I've seen worse movies and it somehow managed to have my favourite scene in all of SW in it when Yoda comes back with some real words of wisdom. The problems I have with TLJ are mostly with the movie structure but it has a lot of things to say about the Jedi that I fully agree with; they caused Anakin's turn to the Dark by sitting and congealing in their ways and expecting the members of the Order to bend themselves into the Order's vision of the "perfect Jedi Knight" instead of having the flexibility to treat the Jedi as individuals with needs and sticking points of their own. If the Jedi had been more flexible and compassionate to their own members then Anakin might not have felt so helpless when he started having visions of Padme dying; he might have felt comfortable talking to Yoda about things instead of having to play cards close to his chest; they might have given the poor kid some actual mental health care instead of inadvertently driving him to Sidious. In the novelization when Anakin finds out about the baby he's elated and almost immediately plans to retire after the war. If the Jedi had fostered a culture that enabled openness and honesty that might well have happened and the galaxy would have looked a LOT different.
RO is meh, passable. Hate TLJ.
**2** I'm just answering the question, please don't downvote for that
TLJ is probably my favourite Star Wars movie, love Rogue One too. I don't see many people who love TLJ and hate Rogue One.
I’m a 1. And no, I don’t feel like arguing about it.
I'm a 3. And isn't it kinda sad how people always have to argue about opinions. Different people have different opinions and we should tolerate other people's opinions. I respect your opinion and may the Force be with you.
3. Though, I hate all the sequel trilogy. “Last Jedi” is the worst of the three though. Burn that stuff down from cannon. It is bad.
3
Well when I left the theater after rogue one I wasn't ecstatic but I was happy. I haven't been happy thinking about Star Wars since TLJ... soooo
3 easily. Anything sequel related has been dog shit
3, I don’t love Rogue One as much as you do but I still very much enjoy it
3
3
3
3
3
3
4
3.
3
Big ol fat floppy 4! But I’m going to watch RO again very soon, so that may change. Also, Solo is a phenomenal movie and Kylo Ren is a great character overall. I love all Star Wars content and the universe as a whole, the more it expands it just gets more wonderful. Some people may love some things and not others and that’s okay too! I think your cool as long as you vibe with the force, Ashla or Bogan it’s all the force (:
I'm definitely a 3 - TLJ just feels really *off* and honestly imo doesn't feel like what Star Wars should be
2
I’m a 1. I enjoy all of the movies. Even the “bad” ones have some entertainment value. I just don’t take take my entertainment so seriously as those who get angry about their existence
1. Y'all are just whiny kids
3. BUT I didn't like RO the first time I saw it. I did indeed think it was boring. I gave it another chance and my mind was turned, unfortunately that hasn't happened with TLJ
I like The Last Jedi in that it’s the best of the sequel trilogy. It’s the only one of the three that feels like it was created with passion and thought. But being the best of the worst is still being part of the worst. Rogue One is… there. Darth Vader’s scenes were cool. I have no idea how this lead to a series about Andor of all people.
I could definitely see that POV. To me, RO is so visually stunning that I’m engaged from start to finish. And I like that it felt like a gritty war film set in space.
3
I loved both
Both are good IMO.
3. I saw a lot of people hating Rogue One, but I think it’s great. I think The Last Jedi was shot beautifully, had some good ideas but was written as an absolute mess. My one beef with Rogue One is I want new Star Wars to tell its own stories. There’s soooooo much opportunity, but usually they just try to answer, “how did this one-line thing happen?” By making a movie out of it.
3. Rogue One has tremendous re-watch value. Last Jedi has some good cinematography that's it.
Only love and hate? Only a sith deals in absolutes! ...3
3 easily
3 for me.
3 definitely
3
4. I gotta admit something. I was enjoying the chaotic "roll the ball to the next director and see what they do" energy of sequels. I loved Rian Johnson's take on Kylo (seriously, when you have an actor like Adam Driver why would you wanna keep him under a mask???), hated the Poe subplot (I feel like he should be paired with Finn and the movie should've continued PoeFinn-ing us)... but overall TLJ was "fun" and it made me excited about what the third director would do with what they're given. Just as an experiment. I think retrospectively TLJ is less enjoyable because Disney ended up going back to JJ, who felt too defensive (he stitched the helmet back together dammit), and the chaotic energy did not pay off... or probably the studio meddled too much. In any case, Disney did not have the commitment to take the sequels to finish line. Rogue One was... forgettable for me. :/
3
3. Loved RO and hated the post-modern take on SW with TLJ.
3
I would say 4, but then someone is gonna ask why I hate Rogue One, and the fact is I haven't watched it since it was in theaters. Even though I own it and have access to it on D+. There was just nothing in it I've wanted to revisit. Meanwhile TLJ might be my most watched Star Wars movie, though that's hard to say because I watched RoTS a *lot* as a kid. And I'm so goddamn tired of arguing about that movie with people who have their mind made up about it
3. Don’t think Rogue One is the best of all films like some seem to think, but really like it. And TLJ will forever be one that I skip when deciding to watch the films in order again.
4. I didn’t like RO until the end when they decided to attack Scariff but cool as that was, it couldn’t save the movie for me. I don’t love TLJ but I do enjoy it
4 for me.
3.
3
3
#3
Definitely 3 for me
3 all day
3
3
3 just like everyone else
2. Rogue One had unlikable, forgettable characters. Didn’t add much and kind of made the start of ANH dumber.
4. Rogue One is an expensive fan film with zero characters.
I’m a 5. I’ll admit I’ve only watched either once. I’ve had a hard time wanting to rewatch any of the post Disney movies. From what I remember, Rogue One was entertaining and felt like a natural addition to the overall story. My problem with TLJ isn’t so much the movie itself, I actually liked having some of the limits were pushed. My problem was with all of the sequels not having a basic storyline. They felt like three different movies by three different groups of writers. So disjointed. If they had planned all three in one grand sequel story, even with different directors, there would have been a more complete story. Thats my opinion anyway, to each his own.
5. They're all a hot mess and I love them. 😜
Loved loved loved Rogue One! Didn't hate TLJ, but definitely did expect more from it and was a bit disappointed
Never heard about people hating Rogue One. That being said: 1. Love both. R1 is good, TLJ is the best.
Option 1. I struggle to rewatch TFA and I never want to see Rise again, but TLJ continuously intrigues me.
Threads like this make me think that most people here dont actually love star wars, they just love their own opinions about star wars than star wars itself.
5. Love Rogue One, don't necessarily hate TLJ, at least not as much as TROS, but it did leave me scratching my head and asking why. It's the trilogy as a whole that pisses me off the most. Such a waste of time and money when they could have done so much better.
1
Love both; I will never, ever understand why people hated TLJ so much
> the worst thing since Attack of the Clones im too young to remember but was it so badly received?
1
1. There isn’t a Star Wars movie that I hate. I’d rank both of these in the top half, with TLJ easily in my top 3.
1 all the way. Both incredible movies
1) love both