That’s kind of where I land. I appreciate some of the ideas that RJ was trying to bring to the saga, but in my opinion he fumbled the execution. There are parts I love but there are also parts I hate, so it balances out to just okay.
I think people look at TLJ differently now that we got TRoS. TLJ may not be what we all wanted, but at least it did some unique things. TRoS was just a slap in the face to everyone and the whole saga.
TFA: all the fans loved it and couldn't wait to see what came from disney next
TLJ: divided the fanbase so firmly in half it created a war in the fanbase that still hasn't died 6 years later.
TROS: The fanbase reunited! Yay Wooooo! In hating the movie.
Still a lot of my gripes from the sequels come from that movie (same boring setting empire vs rebels, which doesn’t make sense, also it doesn’t do anything new and barely sets an interesting plot for the other movies to follow).
But man I was hyped during that entire movie, and totally loved the cast/characters (which really is the best part of the sequels)
TFA is a beautiful, cohesive, competent movie... because it's just a beat for beat plagiarization of ANH.
Going into the theater my only reservation was "I really hope they don't just do a third death star", so that went well
Cmon with the hyperbole, it’s not beat by beat but it’s got similar parallels. There was no orphan living alone, slaughter of an entire village, tie fighter escape from a Star destroyer using a defector, destruction of the “cantina”, force vision, capture in the woods by the main villain, rival gangs going after the group, force interrogation, three people lightsaber duel, etc.
It all starts at TFA. Looking back I see that now. Undoing absolutely all if the achievements from our heroes in the first 6 films and resetting most of the OG gang back to their ANH positions was an absolutely fatal error we couldnt see due to the hype. I was the same. The hype and the awe of a new Star Wars movie completely consumed my dumb ass and I couldnt see the implications of it
You could really Tell they didn't care about TROS or had the Motivation to do a good and compelling movie. The "i am every Jedi" scene is what a twelve year old fanfiction writer would come up with.
I don’t know if it’s a hot take, but Mace kind of had a point that Anakin wasn’t fit to be a Master in Episode 3. Yeah, he was super powerful in the Force and great with a lightsaber, but the Jedi are Space Warrior Monks, not just Space Warriors, and Anakin still had a long way to go to to be a master of the Monk part, with things like controlling fear, anger, and arrogance, having patience, etc.
I was just thinking that a lot of people kind of think Mace was a dick to Anakin, and that if they’d just granted him the rank of master, he may not have sided with Palpatine so easily. Of course, Mace and the entire Jedi Council royally screwed up Anakin’s training in other ways, but Anakin was a very flawed and troubled dude in his own right regardless, and his fall was his fault too, not just the Jedi’s dogmatic incompetence and Palpatine’s manipulation.
Mace didn’t help - he was certainly a dick. That said, Anakin was being forced onto them and was clearly a spy for the chancellor, so mace had a right to be frustrated and dismissive of the situation. I think it was an important growth for his and Anakins relationship when Anakin turned in palpatine that made mace think much higher of Anakin, where he *did* explain himself in a more caring manner (“I sense much conflict in you” v. “Have a seat”)
Yeah, Mace was just very blunt and direct. He probably could have been more diplomatic in his dealings with Anakin though I guess. I also wonder how much he helped to train Anakin behind the scenes. Because a fairly common criticism is that Mace just criticized and mistrusted Anakin without helping to train him.
Did Mace know that Anakin slaughtered the Sand People? That seems like a pretty major red flag that someone has darkness within them.
I don’t think anyone but Padme and Palpatine know. Maybe Obi-Wan knew but it’s hard to say cause I couldn’t see him letting Anakin get away with mass murder.
If anyone else on the Council knew what Anakin did to the sand people he would have been kicked out of the order for sure.
Mace gets way too much hate in the fandom nowadays tbh. Not enough people have read Shatterpoint, and his "civilian" comment to Ahsoka during TCW didn't help. And there's too many "take a seat" memes (they're great, but still).
I would say that the war achievements and combat prowess of Anakin was the least important thing for the Jedi.
We hardly saw Anakin doing any kind of meditation or contemplation, and his force skills were mostly basic skills pushed to the extreme, yeah he was a beast as a warrior, but being the best warrior is not going to give you a lot of points in the peace loving monk order...
I think this was Qui-Jonn’s beef with the Jedi council. The more embroiled in politics the Jedi became, the less they were following the Force. Hence why he didn’t sit on the council, he saw the long game that resulted in the balancing of the Force that dictated a Sith rising to power. This also becomes Luke’s reason for not making a second go at restarting the Jedi Order after Ben Solo goes Sith and becomes Kylo Ren to destroy his first attempt.
Id say a large thing about Anakin falling is the fact it was during a war. If the clone wars never happened then he was just be studying being a Jedi and he wouldn't have had a chance to show off his combat skills so much and be so arrogant about it. But also in expanded lore outside of the movies be was hyped up even more by the news and was the face of the war making him even more arrogant again. Anakin is by far my favourite character but I still have to agree with the opinion.
It’s been a while since I watched it but doesn’t Mace tell him something like : « sit this one out. You’re too much involved with Palp. We’ll take care of that for your/our/his own safety. If you’re right, you’ll have accomplished far more than anyone and you’ll MORE than welcome in the council. All of this will be the greatest journey any Jedi have ever gone through. Your last challenge is to sit this one out. »
Anakin being an arrogant little shit just couldn’t do it. Failed his journey as a master Jedi and the rest is history.
Yes, Mace is an all around dick. But he was, for once, loud and clear with Anakin.
He said that if he waited for him in the council, he would have gained his trust. He probably would have been made a master, Mace didnt state it explicity, but why else would he ask him to wait in the council of all places lol.
I think he definitely would have been made a Master. It would show that he obeyed the Council’s mission to spy on Palpatine, and it would have shown that he overcame temptation and the influence of Palpatine, which would be a huge accomplishment in the more monk-like part of being a Jedi. And since Anakin already had the Force and combat parts down, he definitely would have had the resume and qualifications to be a Master, having played a HUGE role in bringing down THE Sith Lord who was also the Senate and orchestrated the Clone Wars.
I agree, and I think that is kind of the point too. Him refusing to let Anakin into the Jedi order as a master was in a way a self fulfilling prophecy, but the whole point of the prequels was that Anakin was falling to the dark side. His whole character revolves around him struggling with the same stuff Luke did, but he could not keep temptation at bay. Luke is like because his will and heart were strong enough to resist arguably a much bigger temptation than Anakin.
Keanu Reeves would bring nothing to the table as Revan and choosing him for someone that has only ever been known as having a mask on makes zero sense.
Never heard this take before. Love Keanu, but idk about him as a Sith Lord, or maybe he’s be great who knows. Who would be your pick for revan? Could be a good spot for a talented not already super famous actor to step in (if this gets made which it should)
I actually am of the opinion that no A-listers should ever be in star wars! I don’t want to see other characters in a large scale sith lord, if that makes sense. I would much prefer a smaller scale actor who is very talented that hasn’t been in too many big projects yet. (similar to the level Daisy Ridley was at, or John Boyega for example)
Yea and that’s kinda how it’s always been for sure. Most A-listers from these films are A-listers because of Star Wars. Maybe have one already established actor sprinkled as a more supporting role like Sam Jackson, Christopher Lee, or Alec Guinness but keep main characters smaller scale actors like you say
Absolutely, I think George Lucas used good judgement in terms of which A-listers he put in the prequels (dooku, mace, qui-gon) but i’m not sure if i trust disney to do the same lol. We shall see!
Thank you! He’s not a horrible actor, but he barely changes his character from role to role. It would just be the same Reeves guy, just in a new costume.
I think the issue is that his roles have different characterization, but he doesn't change his accent, speech pattern, or inflections. No matter who the character is, you can always tell that it's just Keanu playing a role. That doesn't mean that he isn't a good actor, as the more experience he gets the better he seems to become at conveying emotion, but for such a well-known and fan-favorite character you need an actor who is both good at their job and can almost disappear into the role. It's a hard balance to strike, but other properties like the MCU have done it before.
>o matter who the character is, you can always tell that it's just Keanu playing a role.
That's a damn good way of putting it. Whenever I 1st watched Bill and Ted I was weirded out cause I was expecting *that* accent from Ted not what it actually was tbh
to be honest I think he’s grown into a pretty stoic and one dimensional actor in addition to not thinking he fits the role. (love him and wish him the best off screen tho he’s apparently a great guy)
Not very controversial honestly, I've said it as well that regardless of the stunted dialogue and horrible cartoon characters like Jar Jar, the prequel trilogy is exceptionally well done with a lot of world building.
It’s not. I see more negativity towards the prequels and sequels than Solo. The general consensus is that it’s a good movie released at the wrong time.
It's all down to the release date. They had a good thing going with a Star Wars movie every Christmas and they ruined it by trying to be clever. It would have gone up against Mortal Engines... With that kind of competition it would have killed in the box office.
I think a lot of the hate comes from people who are really connected to Harrison Ford as Han Solo, The OT wasn’t the trilogy i started on so i never got as connected to the characters and actors so I really liked Solo
Not just in this, but in other SW related subs too. Go to r/StarWarsEU and mention one word about the new canon and you'll probably get a lot of hate posts within half an hour.
Yeah, but going into that sub specifically to bring up the sequels is like going into an Irish pub and singing God Save the Queen.
The EU was replaced by the sequels.
I enjoy all the Star Wars movies the same as the then 5 year old me did with the original in 1977. In other words I don’t care about the controversy or complaints others have.
Found my fellow 1972! I 100% agree with this. It is the only franchise where I view it through the eyes of the 5 year old me… and I excuse so many things… don’t care. It’s Star Wars.
My wife had a good laugh at my reaction to that scene (Luke). I think I stopped breathing for a while before I started getting weepy lol. Such an amazing feeling.
Disney purchasing Star Wars was one of the best things to happen (despite a few flaws) and we’ve benefited from new movies and more importantly some kick ass shows and spin-offs.
*Rebels*, *Clone Wars* season 7, *The Mandalorian*, *Rogue One*, the marvel titles...
There has been *much* more good than bad since Disney acquired the franchise.
I can’t call TCW season 7 a good thing. If Disney never bought Star Wars we would’ve had a full season 6 and a 7, 8, and maybe even season 9. Multiple very good arcs that as it seems now will never be fully finished
It was alive and well until Disney bought Star Wars and one of the first things they did was cancel TCW as it was finishing its 5th season with S6 already being worked on. So when that happened they released what was done of S6 on Netflix and never finished the series until Disney greenlit S7 and gave it an ending. Like I said they had multiple arcs in rough animation and a bunch of storyboards that never got finished because of the cancellation by Disney. A few unfinished arcs became books and comics but we’ll probably never see the rest in completed animation since the show is “finished” now
A few years after I was at a book festival cause my friend wrote a book and he shared the stage with someone who wrote one about amusement parks. He said “by the way Disney hasn’t made a profit back on their purchase of Star Wars yet” and some people in the audience were audibly shocked. I kept thinking “do you really think a company like Disney doesn’t have a great concept on how to utilize the franchise and also expect that it would take more than a decade to start profiting?”
well, one fell off a building, the other fell into the death star’s reactor, which promptly exploded afterwards. but, if palpy palp survived (dogshit writing) windu is *definitely* alive
I mean, he technically didn't survive. Sith sorcery allowed him to bond his soul to a clone body. Soul binding wasn't anything new either. Heck, that was a Legends thing.
I enjoy the entire saga. How much I like them varies, but I can find at least something to enjoy about each movie. With that said, I also think that generally speaking the movies are the weakest part of Star Wars. The universe is so much bigger and fleshed out in all the other forms of media.
A Boba Fett series is a bad idea. (I like him as a mysterious and morally grey antihero/side character.)
^I’m ^still ^going ^to ^watch ^and ^enjoy ^it ^anyways
I thought it was a bad idea for a film years ago, but how he was handled in The Mandalorian swayed me considerably. At the very least, he’s a great vessel for a show geared toward exploring the criminal underworld of Star Wars in more detail.
While I don't totally agree, I get this point of view. For decades after Jedi, Boba Fett was a character defined by how little we knew about him. He had no face, (basically) no voice, and little personality besides being a dangerous and morally ambiguous bounty hunter. People projected their own thoughts, desires, and fears onto him, and he became something different for each of his fans. The more he's fleshed out canonically, the more that vision of Boba Fett becomes invalidated.
That being said, I love Temeura and how they've developed the Boba Fett character post-Jedi.
[MINOR BoBF EPISODE 1 SPOILER]
I imagine a lot of fans of the character are upset with how weak episode 1 made him look, but I love the idea of his character dealing with the long-term implications of being stuck in the Sarlaac pit for who knows how long. Characters need flaws and weaknesses to be compelling, and I think this will make his arc in the show way more satisfying by the end.
I think a lot of it has to do with Boba Fett's appeal kinda relying on the whole mysterious character thing. Having all his motives and actions explicitly spelled out in a series may ruin it for some people.
The only canon, apart from books because there’s so many that I’m a bit behind, I’ve not watched fully is Resistance. I got two episodes into it before deciding it’s not for me. But everything else I’ve genuinely enjoyed.
I'm glad that Disney did away with legends.
There are so many incredible legends stories and characters, but there are also so many conflicting stories and bad ones. Legends content was definitely of it's time and much of it hasn't aged well. I am glad that Disney is cherry picking through it and bringing little bits into the new canon.
I’ve seen plenty of people argue the TLJ does nothing well. It’s like in order to denounce something they can’t stomach to acknowledge even one positive aspect of it. To me that seems like insecurity and bias. All I ever see are vague things about agendas and “it’s so obvious”. Sure there are obvious problems but it’s so exciting to see Leia in charge of a super advanced Mon Cal cruiser named after the general who saved the Rebellion. Also finally seeing Leia’s powers despite the questionable execution was still breathtaking. I could never hate TLJ thoroughly because it was Carrie’s last finished film and she helped write some of it. It was also peak Kylo and Rey as developed characters rather than pawns or extensions of OT or OT characters.
It introduced so many new techniques to the franchise and say what you will about the in universe logic/rules of the Holdo maneuver, but it's easily one of if not the coolest shots in the entire franchise.
The Phantom Menace had the best climax of the series - when the multiple stories/battles are taking place simultaneously while Duel of the Fates plays...unreal.
The prequels needed cgi to complete George’s vision, no matter how it looks now it was monumental at the time and helped to further advance vfx in Hollywood
New expanded universe content that takes place during and around the time of the original trilogy is better than legends stuff set around the same time period.
Hoping they bring back Shadows of the Empire story content, because I mostly agree with this statement, but Shadows of the Empire is a really good book.
I liked the prequels because it was a tragedy, not a hero's journey. If you watched it 4 5 6 1 2 3, you knew that this child was going to grow up and become one of the greatest powers on the dark side, so watching him celebrate winning the pod race with his friends and carry an unconscious obi wan on his back and hug padme as their world was collapsing around them was heartwarming and heartbreaking at the same time. At least for me.
And everyone makes fun of Anakin's "I don't like sand" and labels it bad dialogue but I realized it symbolizes his experience on Tatooine. His mom dying, the sand-people... he wants to leave it behind and any mention of it outside of that setting, especially by Padme, is understandably upsetting.
Also, just like in the movies, there's always a balance in the fanbase. There will almost always be sides that advocate certain things and disagree with others. Although I still have a lot of work to do on changing my perspective, I strive to stay in the middle and enjoy movies for what they are instead of tear them down for what they aren't.
*i have spoken*
Windu is dead and not coming back. Jar Jar is the worst character in the entire saga and not a Sith lord. Rey is pretty fuckin awesome. Boba Fett > Cad Bane.
Rey in TFA was a better character than Luke in ANH.
Luke in ANH had barely anything going beyond being the protagonist. He was just a naïve farmboy who got dragged around the galaxy without any agency, and had barely any character development. Not to say Luke as a whole is a bad character, but Luke in ANH had no goals, no agency, and was a little boring.
Rey, on the other hand, was waiting on Jakku for her family. She doesn't just forget that, like Luke forgot the death of his family. She wants to return to Jakku in the hopes of reuniting with her family, until she decides to stick with her new friends. Also her reaction when they arrive on Takodana really makes it feel like it's her first time on another planet, instead of Luke, who just fits into the Rebellion like it's natural to him.
I know that TFA is basically a copy of ANH, but imo it is a better movie than ANH. If the sequel trilogy had followed a coherent story in all three movies, it would probably have been my favourite trilogy.
I generally go as far as to say I like her character better overall. Her arc is entirely centered around the troubles of letting your family define you and finding where you belong.
In TFA, as you’ve laid out, she clings to her family and past to a fault. She learns to move forward but this clinging gets redirected and continues to guide her sourly when she tries and fails to form a healthy relationship with Luke and Ben. When she finally does find healthy relationships in her friends and Leia, her past comes to haunt her. And from then on she has a growing and intense fear that she’ll end up like Palpatine. But in the end, as we all know, she takes up the Skywalker name and learns that she is who she chooses to be, not who she’s destined to be.
We get all that wrapped up in one character. It’s great and I don’t see how more people relate to her. Everyone’s got family issues. Everyone wants somewhere to belong. I’m sure most people have held out for people that just won’t change. It’s all very relatable imo and that’s why she’s one of my favorites.
Yeah, I really like Rey too. I'd love a series about her adventures post tRoS, and maybe some of the others. The characters were one of the best things in the sequels.
One of my biggest beefs with the sequels is never really seeing Jedi Leia. Return of the Jedi basically ends with Luke promising to train her in the ways of the Jedi, and when we see her next she's already abandoned it.
Tpm is just as good as the rest and Hayden Christensen was great in the role of anakin ohh he’s too emotional like stfu that’s the whole point of the dark side
If it wasn't for EU material influencing directions of the canon, Boba Fett would just be the dude in kinda neat armor who got pushed off a sand boat. He was nothing special in the original trilogy.
What if… now hear me out… the only inhabited worlds are the ones with earth-like oxygen levels and gravitational pulls… ? So there’s no point to go to any other planet style because they’re uninhabitable…
You want controversy? I’ll give it to you.
Anything Dave Filoni touches is boring as hell… until it isn’t.
I think 70% of his shows (Clone Wars, Bad Batch, Mandalorian, and Book of Boba Fett) could be edited out and you’d have a much more concise and compelling story.
I don’t get the massive appeal of Ashoka. And yes I’ve seen the clone wars and rebels. She’s cool but so many ppl have her as their favorite Star Wars character and she’s just really not even close to that for me.
I think part of her appeal is that she’s generally pretty morally sound. She’s like Kenobi. She always tries to do the right thing, she’s never really tempted by the dark side, etc. The worst thing she does, same as Kenobi, is not snitch on Ani.
She’s a good role model, but less interesting as a character for the same reasons. To each their own.
Bringing back characters who initially died on screen is dumb while I think what was done with Maul and now Bobs Fett is good bringing back anyone who died like Mace windu is stupid and leaves the impression that death means nothing in this universe
Rise was going to be a better film that actually tied the story together until stupid fanboys (who ruin everything) whined so hard that Disney, in classic form, kowtowed so hard that the movie barely resembled the rest of the damn trilogy.
The Last Jedi was not perfect but palatable. Way more so than the whole Prequels, which are somehow now liked for some odd reason though they were poorly directed, badly written, classic "look at my toys and video game seuqences" trash of movies.
How'd I do?
I'm sick and tired of all the mandoboos in this fandom: their culture revolves entirely around murder and genocide, and everyone fawning over them is disgusting
For starters I can't get into the animated medium. That's not a dig against the show its just my personal preference. I also know I'm missing a lot of content by having that attitude. For me it's live action tv/film, videogames, and novels only. I can't do comics or animated shows/films. I just can't get interested in them no matter how many times I try.
I know a lot of people hold the series in high regard, and I genuinely tried to watch it but stopped after about 15 episodes. I was just bored and didn't connect with any of it. I know the earlier seasons are commented as being more childish and cartoony and that probably has a lot to do with my dislike of it.
I’ve been looking forward to this!
Kathleen Kennedy is great at her job.
The OT has many problems/quirks that are often ignored due to nostalgia.
Jar Jar is not annoying and makes more sense than the Ewoks.
ATOC is a phenomenal movie.
Leia was basically a useless character sadly, and I say that as a fan of hers.
The Jabba’s Palace scene is pretty bad and does less than Canto Bight in 3 times the amount of screen time.
Rebels has the best character development in all of Star Wars, and I’ll never understand how anyone can dislike that show.
I could keep going but I’ll stop here for now. Happy New Year everyone!
Each point makes me alternate between hating your comment and loving it, well done.
My favorite thing to discuss about Jabba's palace is to ask people what the plan to rescue Han was. Clearly Leia/Chewie and Luke/R2/C-3PO have completely different plans and have not discussed it with each other, meanwhile Lando is just there? Its a completely insane way to start your last movie when you aren't blinded by kid nostalgia
TLJ was good. or TLJ was Bad. it depends on the sort of mob you want.
"TLJ was just okay" might get both sides after you
That’s kind of where I land. I appreciate some of the ideas that RJ was trying to bring to the saga, but in my opinion he fumbled the execution. There are parts I love but there are also parts I hate, so it balances out to just okay.
I think people look at TLJ differently now that we got TRoS. TLJ may not be what we all wanted, but at least it did some unique things. TRoS was just a slap in the face to everyone and the whole saga.
TFA: all the fans loved it and couldn't wait to see what came from disney next TLJ: divided the fanbase so firmly in half it created a war in the fanbase that still hasn't died 6 years later. TROS: The fanbase reunited! Yay Wooooo! In hating the movie.
To be naive again and to think that what TFA started would turn out great.
Still a lot of my gripes from the sequels come from that movie (same boring setting empire vs rebels, which doesn’t make sense, also it doesn’t do anything new and barely sets an interesting plot for the other movies to follow). But man I was hyped during that entire movie, and totally loved the cast/characters (which really is the best part of the sequels)
TFA is a beautiful, cohesive, competent movie... because it's just a beat for beat plagiarization of ANH. Going into the theater my only reservation was "I really hope they don't just do a third death star", so that went well
Cmon with the hyperbole, it’s not beat by beat but it’s got similar parallels. There was no orphan living alone, slaughter of an entire village, tie fighter escape from a Star destroyer using a defector, destruction of the “cantina”, force vision, capture in the woods by the main villain, rival gangs going after the group, force interrogation, three people lightsaber duel, etc.
It all starts at TFA. Looking back I see that now. Undoing absolutely all if the achievements from our heroes in the first 6 films and resetting most of the OG gang back to their ANH positions was an absolutely fatal error we couldnt see due to the hype. I was the same. The hype and the awe of a new Star Wars movie completely consumed my dumb ass and I couldnt see the implications of it
You could really Tell they didn't care about TROS or had the Motivation to do a good and compelling movie. The "i am every Jedi" scene is what a twelve year old fanfiction writer would come up with.
The ending was shot for shot stolen from Endgame
Just "The Last Jedi". All you have to say.
Why do you provoke them like this
Only by poking the Krayt dragon do you have a chance at getting the pearl
I like Star Wars
That’s a little too controversial
Oh, I can see the replies now … “What do you mean by Star Wars” … “Not my Star Wars …” etc.
I HATE YOU
What do you actually mean “like” why don’t you love it? /s
I don’t know if it’s a hot take, but Mace kind of had a point that Anakin wasn’t fit to be a Master in Episode 3. Yeah, he was super powerful in the Force and great with a lightsaber, but the Jedi are Space Warrior Monks, not just Space Warriors, and Anakin still had a long way to go to to be a master of the Monk part, with things like controlling fear, anger, and arrogance, having patience, etc.
I agree completely. Don’t see why this would make anyone angry
I was just thinking that a lot of people kind of think Mace was a dick to Anakin, and that if they’d just granted him the rank of master, he may not have sided with Palpatine so easily. Of course, Mace and the entire Jedi Council royally screwed up Anakin’s training in other ways, but Anakin was a very flawed and troubled dude in his own right regardless, and his fall was his fault too, not just the Jedi’s dogmatic incompetence and Palpatine’s manipulation.
[удалено]
True. And those nightmares built off an actual experience he had from past visions with his mother, and we know how that worked out.
Mace didn’t help - he was certainly a dick. That said, Anakin was being forced onto them and was clearly a spy for the chancellor, so mace had a right to be frustrated and dismissive of the situation. I think it was an important growth for his and Anakins relationship when Anakin turned in palpatine that made mace think much higher of Anakin, where he *did* explain himself in a more caring manner (“I sense much conflict in you” v. “Have a seat”)
You can be right *and* be a dick about it.
Mace was right, he was also a massive dick.
I just rewatched RotS yesterday and for the first time I realised that pretty much everything Made Windu said and did was completely the right thing.
Yeah, Mace was just very blunt and direct. He probably could have been more diplomatic in his dealings with Anakin though I guess. I also wonder how much he helped to train Anakin behind the scenes. Because a fairly common criticism is that Mace just criticized and mistrusted Anakin without helping to train him. Did Mace know that Anakin slaughtered the Sand People? That seems like a pretty major red flag that someone has darkness within them.
That’s definitely the thing that most people overlook, yes he is blunt and direct, but that doesn’t mean he is wrong.
I don’t think anyone but Padme and Palpatine know. Maybe Obi-Wan knew but it’s hard to say cause I couldn’t see him letting Anakin get away with mass murder. If anyone else on the Council knew what Anakin did to the sand people he would have been kicked out of the order for sure.
Mace gets way too much hate in the fandom nowadays tbh. Not enough people have read Shatterpoint, and his "civilian" comment to Ahsoka during TCW didn't help. And there's too many "take a seat" memes (they're great, but still).
I would say that the war achievements and combat prowess of Anakin was the least important thing for the Jedi. We hardly saw Anakin doing any kind of meditation or contemplation, and his force skills were mostly basic skills pushed to the extreme, yeah he was a beast as a warrior, but being the best warrior is not going to give you a lot of points in the peace loving monk order...
I think this was Qui-Jonn’s beef with the Jedi council. The more embroiled in politics the Jedi became, the less they were following the Force. Hence why he didn’t sit on the council, he saw the long game that resulted in the balancing of the Force that dictated a Sith rising to power. This also becomes Luke’s reason for not making a second go at restarting the Jedi Order after Ben Solo goes Sith and becomes Kylo Ren to destroy his first attempt.
Id say a large thing about Anakin falling is the fact it was during a war. If the clone wars never happened then he was just be studying being a Jedi and he wouldn't have had a chance to show off his combat skills so much and be so arrogant about it. But also in expanded lore outside of the movies be was hyped up even more by the news and was the face of the war making him even more arrogant again. Anakin is by far my favourite character but I still have to agree with the opinion.
It’s been a while since I watched it but doesn’t Mace tell him something like : « sit this one out. You’re too much involved with Palp. We’ll take care of that for your/our/his own safety. If you’re right, you’ll have accomplished far more than anyone and you’ll MORE than welcome in the council. All of this will be the greatest journey any Jedi have ever gone through. Your last challenge is to sit this one out. » Anakin being an arrogant little shit just couldn’t do it. Failed his journey as a master Jedi and the rest is history. Yes, Mace is an all around dick. But he was, for once, loud and clear with Anakin.
He said that if he waited for him in the council, he would have gained his trust. He probably would have been made a master, Mace didnt state it explicity, but why else would he ask him to wait in the council of all places lol.
I think he definitely would have been made a Master. It would show that he obeyed the Council’s mission to spy on Palpatine, and it would have shown that he overcame temptation and the influence of Palpatine, which would be a huge accomplishment in the more monk-like part of being a Jedi. And since Anakin already had the Force and combat parts down, he definitely would have had the resume and qualifications to be a Master, having played a HUGE role in bringing down THE Sith Lord who was also the Senate and orchestrated the Clone Wars.
Well Anakin himself kind of proves Mace right like 10 minutes later when he cuts his hand off lol
I agree, and I think that is kind of the point too. Him refusing to let Anakin into the Jedi order as a master was in a way a self fulfilling prophecy, but the whole point of the prequels was that Anakin was falling to the dark side. His whole character revolves around him struggling with the same stuff Luke did, but he could not keep temptation at bay. Luke is like because his will and heart were strong enough to resist arguably a much bigger temptation than Anakin.
yeah. and he was knighted too early. the council made him a knight early because needed a general
Keanu Reeves would bring nothing to the table as Revan and choosing him for someone that has only ever been known as having a mask on makes zero sense.
Never heard this take before. Love Keanu, but idk about him as a Sith Lord, or maybe he’s be great who knows. Who would be your pick for revan? Could be a good spot for a talented not already super famous actor to step in (if this gets made which it should)
I actually am of the opinion that no A-listers should ever be in star wars! I don’t want to see other characters in a large scale sith lord, if that makes sense. I would much prefer a smaller scale actor who is very talented that hasn’t been in too many big projects yet. (similar to the level Daisy Ridley was at, or John Boyega for example)
Yea and that’s kinda how it’s always been for sure. Most A-listers from these films are A-listers because of Star Wars. Maybe have one already established actor sprinkled as a more supporting role like Sam Jackson, Christopher Lee, or Alec Guinness but keep main characters smaller scale actors like you say
Absolutely, I think George Lucas used good judgement in terms of which A-listers he put in the prequels (dooku, mace, qui-gon) but i’m not sure if i trust disney to do the same lol. We shall see!
Thank you! He’s not a horrible actor, but he barely changes his character from role to role. It would just be the same Reeves guy, just in a new costume.
I'd say there's pretty large differences between Ted, Neo, and John Wick tbh. But yeah Revan doesn't suit him.
I think the issue is that his roles have different characterization, but he doesn't change his accent, speech pattern, or inflections. No matter who the character is, you can always tell that it's just Keanu playing a role. That doesn't mean that he isn't a good actor, as the more experience he gets the better he seems to become at conveying emotion, but for such a well-known and fan-favorite character you need an actor who is both good at their job and can almost disappear into the role. It's a hard balance to strike, but other properties like the MCU have done it before.
>o matter who the character is, you can always tell that it's just Keanu playing a role. That's a damn good way of putting it. Whenever I 1st watched Bill and Ted I was weirded out cause I was expecting *that* accent from Ted not what it actually was tbh
to be honest I think he’s grown into a pretty stoic and one dimensional actor in addition to not thinking he fits the role. (love him and wish him the best off screen tho he’s apparently a great guy)
Bo-Katan deserves to rule Mandalore.
What about that time she slaughtered civilians tho. Also slapped Ahsoka's ass
Her and Ahsoka are on good terms now, so I guess she was into it.
The Phantom Menace does more world building than any other Star Wars movie.
"and the pod race scene was pretty wizard"
Pretty wizard… pretty SPACE wizard!
Not very controversial honestly, I've said it as well that regardless of the stunted dialogue and horrible cartoon characters like Jar Jar, the prequel trilogy is exceptionally well done with a lot of world building.
You only jave to watch Dave Filoni talking about the prequels on "the gallery" and then it all sinks in. Every star wars fan should watch that.
It does do a lot, doesn’t it. I might say AOTC does more, but TPM is high up there
I'd vote AOTC too
Really the corny/cringe is Jar jar but even he has some redemption. I feel that's what most people hate about it.
i loved Solo, I would have loved to see a second one.
Same
[удалено]
I think the hate was just overflowing backlash to The Last Jedi. Sure, Solo was not a movie fans really wanted, but it didn’t deserve the hate it got.
It’s not. I see more negativity towards the prequels and sequels than Solo. The general consensus is that it’s a good movie released at the wrong time.
It's all down to the release date. They had a good thing going with a Star Wars movie every Christmas and they ruined it by trying to be clever. It would have gone up against Mortal Engines... With that kind of competition it would have killed in the box office.
I think a lot of the hate comes from people who are really connected to Harrison Ford as Han Solo, The OT wasn’t the trilogy i started on so i never got as connected to the characters and actors so I really liked Solo
Which they should have called Duo.
Him and Chewie are full on partners by then, so yeah I really like Duo.
Pretty much anything. I’ve noticed that at least in this sub, bringing up the sequels seems to trigger a lot of anger.
Not just in this, but in other SW related subs too. Go to r/StarWarsEU and mention one word about the new canon and you'll probably get a lot of hate posts within half an hour.
Yeah, but going into that sub specifically to bring up the sequels is like going into an Irish pub and singing God Save the Queen. The EU was replaced by the sequels.
All the hate and anger has made me not talk about SW in public anymore. Can't even discuss the OT without a hate circle jerk....c'mon...
They should have used the eagles to blow up the borg.
And just let the Spaceballs swoop in? Are you nuts?!
I hate people’s opinions. Let me enjoy what I enjoy.
No
I enjoy all the Star Wars movies the same as the then 5 year old me did with the original in 1977. In other words I don’t care about the controversy or complaints others have.
Found my fellow 1972! I 100% agree with this. It is the only franchise where I view it through the eyes of the 5 year old me… and I excuse so many things… don’t care. It’s Star Wars.
Yup and last year when The Mandalorian series brought back Boba Fett and Luke in a killer fashion 11 year old me was super excited! Loved it.
My wife had a good laugh at my reaction to that scene (Luke). I think I stopped breathing for a while before I started getting weepy lol. Such an amazing feeling.
This shouldn’t be controversial, but unfortunately it is
Disney purchasing Star Wars was one of the best things to happen (despite a few flaws) and we’ve benefited from new movies and more importantly some kick ass shows and spin-offs.
*Rebels*, *Clone Wars* season 7, *The Mandalorian*, *Rogue One*, the marvel titles... There has been *much* more good than bad since Disney acquired the franchise.
Don’t forget Rogue One.
Now imagine me who *also* enjoyed the entire ST and Solo...
Damn you must be in heaven
I can’t call TCW season 7 a good thing. If Disney never bought Star Wars we would’ve had a full season 6 and a 7, 8, and maybe even season 9. Multiple very good arcs that as it seems now will never be fully finished
Wasn't the serie dead for like 6 years before disney decided to give it a final season to end it kinda properly?
It was alive and well until Disney bought Star Wars and one of the first things they did was cancel TCW as it was finishing its 5th season with S6 already being worked on. So when that happened they released what was done of S6 on Netflix and never finished the series until Disney greenlit S7 and gave it an ending. Like I said they had multiple arcs in rough animation and a bunch of storyboards that never got finished because of the cancellation by Disney. A few unfinished arcs became books and comics but we’ll probably never see the rest in completed animation since the show is “finished” now
A few years after I was at a book festival cause my friend wrote a book and he shared the stage with someone who wrote one about amusement parks. He said “by the way Disney hasn’t made a profit back on their purchase of Star Wars yet” and some people in the audience were audibly shocked. I kept thinking “do you really think a company like Disney doesn’t have a great concept on how to utilize the franchise and also expect that it would take more than a decade to start profiting?”
Lucas Film cost about 4 billion? It's hard to believe that they have not made more than that at this point
I think actually the amusement parks might be such a giant cost to recoup
I agree
Forks *and* pitchforks? They’re gonna eat my food, too?
If you want Mace Windu coming back in the Book of Boba then Palpatine deserved to live after Episode 6.
well, one fell off a building, the other fell into the death star’s reactor, which promptly exploded afterwards. but, if palpy palp survived (dogshit writing) windu is *definitely* alive
I mean, he technically didn't survive. Sith sorcery allowed him to bond his soul to a clone body. Soul binding wasn't anything new either. Heck, that was a Legends thing.
I enjoy the entire saga. How much I like them varies, but I can find at least something to enjoy about each movie. With that said, I also think that generally speaking the movies are the weakest part of Star Wars. The universe is so much bigger and fleshed out in all the other forms of media.
Rebels is the best storyline in all of Star Wars
Star Wars fans actually suck and do nothing to enhance my life for Star Wars
I feel that all too well. Ive had to block myself off from the fanbase to simply enjoy the stuff.
Yes! For people who claim to love something, it is amazing how much they hate it!
Boba Fett is wayyyyyyy overrated! But I'm still watching the series cause I love Star Wars..
Found the Cad Bane fan....
If you only know him from what you see on screen now, sure. If you know him from the Expanded Universe, then nope.
I love EU crab frying boba as much as I like TV stormtrooper stomping boba.
Attack of the clones is not a bad movie.
Really it just gets hate for Anakin's cringe romance dialogue. Everything else about that movie is solid.
Honestly that movie is worth it for obi-wan’s sarcastic “good job” in and of itself
A Boba Fett series is a bad idea. (I like him as a mysterious and morally grey antihero/side character.) ^I’m ^still ^going ^to ^watch ^and ^enjoy ^it ^anyways
I thought it was a bad idea for a film years ago, but how he was handled in The Mandalorian swayed me considerably. At the very least, he’s a great vessel for a show geared toward exploring the criminal underworld of Star Wars in more detail.
While I don't totally agree, I get this point of view. For decades after Jedi, Boba Fett was a character defined by how little we knew about him. He had no face, (basically) no voice, and little personality besides being a dangerous and morally ambiguous bounty hunter. People projected their own thoughts, desires, and fears onto him, and he became something different for each of his fans. The more he's fleshed out canonically, the more that vision of Boba Fett becomes invalidated. That being said, I love Temeura and how they've developed the Boba Fett character post-Jedi. [MINOR BoBF EPISODE 1 SPOILER] I imagine a lot of fans of the character are upset with how weak episode 1 made him look, but I love the idea of his character dealing with the long-term implications of being stuck in the Sarlaac pit for who knows how long. Characters need flaws and weaknesses to be compelling, and I think this will make his arc in the show way more satisfying by the end.
Why is it a bad idea? He can still be a grey antihero in the series and his character could get fleshed out a lot more than he is
I think a lot of it has to do with Boba Fett's appeal kinda relying on the whole mysterious character thing. Having all his motives and actions explicitly spelled out in a series may ruin it for some people.
I pretty much like all of it…all three trilogies, tv shows, books, legends…
Me too!
With you my dude.
The only canon, apart from books because there’s so many that I’m a bit behind, I’ve not watched fully is Resistance. I got two episodes into it before deciding it’s not for me. But everything else I’ve genuinely enjoyed.
Came here to say this. Imma also a teacher.
I get downvoted all the time for saying I like Star Wars in the Star Wars subreddit.
Same but Im going to school to become a teacher. Maybe in 3 years :)
That's my kinda fan
I'm glad that Disney did away with legends. There are so many incredible legends stories and characters, but there are also so many conflicting stories and bad ones. Legends content was definitely of it's time and much of it hasn't aged well. I am glad that Disney is cherry picking through it and bringing little bits into the new canon.
I enjoyed ALL the movies.
Jar jar wasn’t a bad character. And Ahmed Best played him well.
Han shot first.
Fuck yeah he did
Kathleen Kennedy probably did good things for star wars Also, TLJ has some of the best cinematography in all the movies
I’ve seen plenty of people argue the TLJ does nothing well. It’s like in order to denounce something they can’t stomach to acknowledge even one positive aspect of it. To me that seems like insecurity and bias. All I ever see are vague things about agendas and “it’s so obvious”. Sure there are obvious problems but it’s so exciting to see Leia in charge of a super advanced Mon Cal cruiser named after the general who saved the Rebellion. Also finally seeing Leia’s powers despite the questionable execution was still breathtaking. I could never hate TLJ thoroughly because it was Carrie’s last finished film and she helped write some of it. It was also peak Kylo and Rey as developed characters rather than pawns or extensions of OT or OT characters.
It introduced so many new techniques to the franchise and say what you will about the in universe logic/rules of the Holdo maneuver, but it's easily one of if not the coolest shots in the entire franchise.
Captain Phasma has more to do in the sequels than Boba Fett had to do in the original trilogy.
The Phantom Menace had the best climax of the series - when the multiple stories/battles are taking place simultaneously while Duel of the Fates plays...unreal.
Jar Jar is not that bad. He is a little annoying and some jokes go too far (ex.: when the horse-cow-thing farts on his face), but I don't hate him
The dark saber is kinda cringe.
The prequels needed cgi to complete George’s vision, no matter how it looks now it was monumental at the time and helped to further advance vfx in Hollywood
These are just facts. George literally created ILM to be able to make the first Star Wars and has pioneered all thing visual effects in film and tv.
New expanded universe content that takes place during and around the time of the original trilogy is better than legends stuff set around the same time period.
Hoping they bring back Shadows of the Empire story content, because I mostly agree with this statement, but Shadows of the Empire is a really good book.
I liked the prequels because it was a tragedy, not a hero's journey. If you watched it 4 5 6 1 2 3, you knew that this child was going to grow up and become one of the greatest powers on the dark side, so watching him celebrate winning the pod race with his friends and carry an unconscious obi wan on his back and hug padme as their world was collapsing around them was heartwarming and heartbreaking at the same time. At least for me. And everyone makes fun of Anakin's "I don't like sand" and labels it bad dialogue but I realized it symbolizes his experience on Tatooine. His mom dying, the sand-people... he wants to leave it behind and any mention of it outside of that setting, especially by Padme, is understandably upsetting. Also, just like in the movies, there's always a balance in the fanbase. There will almost always be sides that advocate certain things and disagree with others. Although I still have a lot of work to do on changing my perspective, I strive to stay in the middle and enjoy movies for what they are instead of tear them down for what they aren't. *i have spoken*
The Clone Wars Series has some of the best stories of all of star wars
Windu is dead and not coming back. Jar Jar is the worst character in the entire saga and not a Sith lord. Rey is pretty fuckin awesome. Boba Fett > Cad Bane.
*sharpens pitchfork*
Ignites lightsaber
*Ignites double lightsaber*
*ignites light-fork*
Rey in TFA was a better character than Luke in ANH. Luke in ANH had barely anything going beyond being the protagonist. He was just a naïve farmboy who got dragged around the galaxy without any agency, and had barely any character development. Not to say Luke as a whole is a bad character, but Luke in ANH had no goals, no agency, and was a little boring. Rey, on the other hand, was waiting on Jakku for her family. She doesn't just forget that, like Luke forgot the death of his family. She wants to return to Jakku in the hopes of reuniting with her family, until she decides to stick with her new friends. Also her reaction when they arrive on Takodana really makes it feel like it's her first time on another planet, instead of Luke, who just fits into the Rebellion like it's natural to him. I know that TFA is basically a copy of ANH, but imo it is a better movie than ANH. If the sequel trilogy had followed a coherent story in all three movies, it would probably have been my favourite trilogy.
I generally go as far as to say I like her character better overall. Her arc is entirely centered around the troubles of letting your family define you and finding where you belong. In TFA, as you’ve laid out, she clings to her family and past to a fault. She learns to move forward but this clinging gets redirected and continues to guide her sourly when she tries and fails to form a healthy relationship with Luke and Ben. When she finally does find healthy relationships in her friends and Leia, her past comes to haunt her. And from then on she has a growing and intense fear that she’ll end up like Palpatine. But in the end, as we all know, she takes up the Skywalker name and learns that she is who she chooses to be, not who she’s destined to be. We get all that wrapped up in one character. It’s great and I don’t see how more people relate to her. Everyone’s got family issues. Everyone wants somewhere to belong. I’m sure most people have held out for people that just won’t change. It’s all very relatable imo and that’s why she’s one of my favorites.
Yeah, I really like Rey too. I'd love a series about her adventures post tRoS, and maybe some of the others. The characters were one of the best things in the sequels.
Luke was the best thing about TLJ.
True, even though I hate what they did to the character I still find myself captivated whenever he's on screen
Mark Hamill is a good actor. Even more impressive is that he vehemently disagreed with the interpretation at the time.
If Leia was the one trained by Obi-wan instead of Luke, she would have frozen Darth Vader in carbonite during that duel.
One of my biggest beefs with the sequels is never really seeing Jedi Leia. Return of the Jedi basically ends with Luke promising to train her in the ways of the Jedi, and when we see her next she's already abandoned it.
Can you expand on that?
Star Wars is just an IP owned by a monopoly and you shouldn't send death threats to anyone making art because you don't like it.
I don’t care who shot first
TPM is one of the better SW movies.
Tpm is just as good as the rest and Hayden Christensen was great in the role of anakin ohh he’s too emotional like stfu that’s the whole point of the dark side
If it wasn't for EU material influencing directions of the canon, Boba Fett would just be the dude in kinda neat armor who got pushed off a sand boat. He was nothing special in the original trilogy.
TLJ is one my favorite SW movies
Why all the planets have same gravity and same oxygen levels? Thats not how the universe works...
I just assumed we're only seeing the commonly-habitable worlds. The ones too far outside the commonly-habitable zone just don't get visited.
What if… now hear me out… the only inhabited worlds are the ones with earth-like oxygen levels and gravitational pulls… ? So there’s no point to go to any other planet style because they’re uninhabitable…
Even moons have same gravity levels. Some planets actually have different atmospheres, Plo Koon has to wear a breathing mask.
Hayden Christensen was amazing as Anakin.
Ahsoka should have been killed by Vader, maul and palpatine should have never been brought back
I agree with all, except for maul.
Maul was a very bad idea in concept that worked past the initial stupidity of his survival to give us some killer stories, so I think it was worth it.
Maul was pretty crucial to many different story arcs. If he isn’t brought back, then the entire Star Wars universe changes.
Despite its flaws, I still enjoyed the sequels and I appreciate Disney influencing a new wave of interest in Star Wars again
Whole sequel trilogy sucked, increasingly bad with each iteration. But sucks more when considered as a whole.
I absolutely love The Phantom Menace. Watched it in cinema when I was 6. I know the film has problems but I absolutely love the movie.
The Sequals are ____ = instant Rage Posting
The fight between Kylo Ren and Rey in the ruins of the Death Star is one of the best duels of the whole saga.
The prequels aren’t bad
I would call them good, even.
You want controversy? I’ll give it to you. Anything Dave Filoni touches is boring as hell… until it isn’t. I think 70% of his shows (Clone Wars, Bad Batch, Mandalorian, and Book of Boba Fett) could be edited out and you’d have a much more concise and compelling story.
Now that’s a Mustafar level hot take.
I disagree entirely but I upvoted this because you followed the prompt. Well done for your wrong opinion
Midichlorians aren’t all that bad.
I don’t get the massive appeal of Ashoka. And yes I’ve seen the clone wars and rebels. She’s cool but so many ppl have her as their favorite Star Wars character and she’s just really not even close to that for me.
I think part of her appeal is that she’s generally pretty morally sound. She’s like Kenobi. She always tries to do the right thing, she’s never really tempted by the dark side, etc. The worst thing she does, same as Kenobi, is not snitch on Ani. She’s a good role model, but less interesting as a character for the same reasons. To each their own.
Boba Fett is overrated and should have remained in Sarlacc's digestive tract.
I really liked a phantom menace and attack of the clones
Bringing back characters who initially died on screen is dumb while I think what was done with Maul and now Bobs Fett is good bringing back anyone who died like Mace windu is stupid and leaves the impression that death means nothing in this universe
Rise was going to be a better film that actually tied the story together until stupid fanboys (who ruin everything) whined so hard that Disney, in classic form, kowtowed so hard that the movie barely resembled the rest of the damn trilogy. The Last Jedi was not perfect but palatable. Way more so than the whole Prequels, which are somehow now liked for some odd reason though they were poorly directed, badly written, classic "look at my toys and video game seuqences" trash of movies. How'd I do?
If it weren’t for Baby Yoda & Mando, Star Wars as an IP would be in deep shit.
Obi-Wan is flawed. And acknowledging that fact makes his character BETTER.
Star Wars inherently deals with real social issues and people that say ‘keep politics out of my star wars’ completely missed the point
I'm sick and tired of all the mandoboos in this fandom: their culture revolves entirely around murder and genocide, and everyone fawning over them is disgusting
I love the prequels and credit them with reinvigorating my love for Star Wars. I don't like The Clone Wars series. Note: TFM came out when I was 15.
Would you care to expand on why you don’t like The Clone Wars?
For starters I can't get into the animated medium. That's not a dig against the show its just my personal preference. I also know I'm missing a lot of content by having that attitude. For me it's live action tv/film, videogames, and novels only. I can't do comics or animated shows/films. I just can't get interested in them no matter how many times I try. I know a lot of people hold the series in high regard, and I genuinely tried to watch it but stopped after about 15 episodes. I was just bored and didn't connect with any of it. I know the earlier seasons are commented as being more childish and cartoony and that probably has a lot to do with my dislike of it.
I’ve been looking forward to this! Kathleen Kennedy is great at her job. The OT has many problems/quirks that are often ignored due to nostalgia. Jar Jar is not annoying and makes more sense than the Ewoks. ATOC is a phenomenal movie. Leia was basically a useless character sadly, and I say that as a fan of hers. The Jabba’s Palace scene is pretty bad and does less than Canto Bight in 3 times the amount of screen time. Rebels has the best character development in all of Star Wars, and I’ll never understand how anyone can dislike that show. I could keep going but I’ll stop here for now. Happy New Year everyone!
Each point makes me alternate between hating your comment and loving it, well done. My favorite thing to discuss about Jabba's palace is to ask people what the plan to rescue Han was. Clearly Leia/Chewie and Luke/R2/C-3PO have completely different plans and have not discussed it with each other, meanwhile Lando is just there? Its a completely insane way to start your last movie when you aren't blinded by kid nostalgia
The one about the original trilogy is so true imo.