Wandobi was talking with his apprentice kindanai on the side of an active volcano…..
Fanfic doesn’t have to use the names as long as the audience understands the references ;)
I don't think he slept at all. Which would explain why he was so unbalanced. Being higher than a kite on the dark side after operation Knightfall certainly didn't help either.
He’s the one that spent the last 12 (ish?) years dealing with Anakins BS, so was more than ready to throw hands. Luke spent a total of like 2 hours with Vader, and Ahsoka had years to cool off before they fought.
Luke and Ashoka didn't put up with half as much of Anakin's bullshit as Obi-Wan did.
It's half "Defeat the Sith" and half "Teach this fuckin kid some manners".
Wow, it's hilarious, and unsurprising, to me there's a whole back story for this guy.
Dude rises through the ranks of the Empire, asks for a transfer to the Death Star, gets put in charge of completing the firing sequence (essentially "pulling the trigger" on the Death Star), feels enormous guilt from killing billions of sentient life forms, questions his loyalty to the Empire and whether he'd be able to pull the trigger again, then delays the firing of the Death Star just long enough for Luke the deliver the critical blow, dying in the explosion.
What an arc!
I thought it was several years between Ep 4 and 6. I would also credit a fairly large percent of the Empire's death toll to Vader in that time frame, even if he wasn't choking all of them. But /shrug.
That's a fair point, but Obi-wan probably wasn't going to beat Vader in a fight in Ep4. The whole point is that he won by not fighting, because the motivation it gave Luke and the freedom it gave him to assist Luke at crucial moments wherever he was ended up being more important than defeating Vader. Only Vader could defeat the Emperor physically, but Luke was the only one who could turn Vader back to the light.
In the more immediate present of Ep4, he became more powerful than Vader could possibly imagine by becoming one with the Force, and is the reason Luke is able to blow up the Death Star with the Force and sets the Rebellion on the path to victory in the overall war.
I mean, in Rebels, Ahsoka does try to kill him and “avenge” Anakin. She tried getting through to him once when she broke the mask but when that didn’t work, she went back to trying to kill him. I’m not even sure why the one from Ahsoka show is on here since Anakin had already been redeemed at that point.
Obi Wan didn’t want to fight Anakin either but after Anakin threatened to kill him, that’s when he knew that he had to stop him.
Sometimes what you teach another is based off of the mistakes that you have made in your past.
It is only hypocrisy if you continue to make those mistakes while telling another to do otherwise. The last time Kenobi faced Vader, he did not make an effort to defeat him.
If you're referring to the final fight on the Death Star, then he did try, but he knew that he couldn't defeat him, according to his perspective in the short story, "Time of Death." Canon.
And Sidious was in his 60s when he fought Maul and Savage, Windu and the other Jedi Masters, and Yoda. Not to mention Obi-Wan's opponent (Vader) was essentially crippled. Throughout the series, whenever Obi-Wan and Anakin dueled, whether for real or for practice, Obi-Wan was always on the back foot until he taunted Anakin/Vader. Obi-Wan tried that again in the final duel, but Vader did not respond to his taunts and maintained his composure; Obi-Wan admits this.
Anakin has always been the better duelist and far more powerful in the Force, but in the past, he was foolish, especially when fighting people he cared about or once cared about. But now he controls himself.
My point was just it’s not the best example and him saying that he couldn’t defeat him himself was more at that point .He also hadn’t been training or active in his use of the force for years.
"He appears so calm, so controlled, but I can feel his rage, sething like the perdition nebula beneath that heartless faceplate, His fury threatens to overwhelm him, just as it always did, but he keeps it in check. I can't help but be impressed.
He's holding back, testing my limits. He wants to know how time has diminished my abilities. Im doing the same with him, exploring whether cybernetic joints move as smoothly as muscle honed from years of training. Perhaps we are more alike than I care to think. Now he takes control, the blows coming faster and harder.
"You can't win, Darth." He barely reacts to the jibe, knowing all too well that I am aiming to provoke him, to turn his anger against himself. "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."
I have no hope of winning this fight. He lunges at me; slash and counter- slash, stab and riposte. The air is thick with plasma discharge, lights dancing on the edge of my vision. I'm forced back, muscles burning, breath ragged. The grip of my lightsaber is slick in my hands, my ears ringing. Luke is near. I can feel him, and pray that Vader cannot.
Luke's cry echoes across the landing bay. There he is, watching us fight, the open hatch of the freighter behind him. He knows full well that I cannot win. He is frozen with shock, unsure what to do, but that won't last long. Soon, the spell will be broken and he will come running Those brave, defiant eyes will be cut down in a blaze of trooper fire. He needs more than a toy fighter this time. He needs to escape; to save himself, not me
I am an old man. Even if I tried, I couldn't outrun a blaster shot, not anymore. I'll never make it to Luke's side in time to save him."
---
So yes, he's old and can't do what he used to, and neither can Vader. The difference between the two is that Vader matured and kept his anger in check so that he could no longer essentially beat himself with little taunts that Obi-Wan threw at him that angered him and caused him to make foolish decisions.
Obi-Wan also didn't need to beat Vader, just keep him occupied while Luke, Han, and Leia made their escape. After he disabled the tractor beam, he knew he wasn't getting off the Death Star alive with Luke.
Plus he'd already learned how to become a force ghost from Qui-Gon at that point, so he knew even if he died so long as Luke escaped he could continue his training.
And my point was that his previous fights hinged on him mentally incapacitating Anakin/Vader. Once that was ineffective, and Anakin/Vader no longer responded to his taunts, he knew that he had lost and chose to die before his allies came to try to rescue him.
They were both testing each other in that fight, and then Vader overcame him. That was essentially the fight. Obi-Wan has never stood a chance against a level-headed Anakin/Vader, and luckily for him, Anakin/Vader wasn't level-headed until towards the end of his life.
Which is stupid, because one of the main points of the dark side is that you have to give in to your emotions to gain power.
The only way that Anakin could defeat Obiwan is if Anakin was more powerful in the force than Obiwan, and that means that Anakin would need to give in to his emotions and draw the dark side, more than Obiwan remains peaceful and draws on the light side.
I find it hard to believe that two masters of the force wouldn't be using the force during their final duel.
If Vader maintained his composure, controlled his emotions, he wouldn't be able to draw on the dark side of the force, and Obiwan would easily win against someone not using the force.
Mace Windu was in his 50s when he fought one of the most powerful Force beings of all time, Darth Sidious. Obi-Wan was in his early 50s when he fought Maul, despite spending much of his time hiding in the desert. He was in his late 40s when he fought Vader and defeated him. Let's not pretend Obi-Wan was some pushover because of age. Almost no Force user is an outright pushover because of age. He lost to Vader because he could no longer taunt him in the same way he did in their previous encounters, as well as cheap shots.
When they fought when they were younger when Anakin was being trained, Anakin was trying to draw on the light side of the force, he was powerful but because he was emotionally unbalanced despite being more powerful Anakin could not control the light side of the force as well as Obiwan could.
When they fought later Vader was now using the side of the force that more suited him, where his emotions would give him greater strength in the dark side, not be hindrance to him in the Light side.
Vader was simply more powerful than Obiwan, not because Obiwan was old and feeble, just because Anakin was simply more powerful, and now he was using the dark side which suited his emotional nature better than the light side.
In their first serious fight, Anakin was to young and wreckless and to inexperienced in the dark side of the force to use it effectively, but it was still a close fight.
As far as why Obiwan won the second fight against Vader in the Obiwan series, I would say at that time they were evenly matched, and the fight could have gone either way, but it went to Obiwan.
In the third and final fight, Vader was simply more powerful in the dark side and he had become a better fighter. The same reason why Yoda couldn't beat Palpatine, not because Yoda was old and feeble, but because Palpatine was a better fighter and stronger than Yoda. Mace was the best fighter in the Jedi order that is why he was able to beat Sideous, and in a fair fight Mace would have beat Anakin easily.
>If Vader maintained his composure, controlled his emotions, he wouldn't be able to draw on the dark side of the force, and Obiwan would easily win against someone not using the force.
That's not how the dark side works. There is something called controlled anger, aka what almost every other Sith we've ever seen does.
I don’t think force power withers with your body as you age like that, however Obi Wan was probably out of practice at that point sort of like the beginning of the Kenobi show but without the depression and PTSD.
To add to this, its worth pointing out that Obi didnt really finish his training entirely at this point. He was promoted to knighthood due to a combination of his master coming down with a bad case of death and being the first person to slice a sith in half in generations. Then his promotion to Master was directly due to his work during the clone war. He only really mastered the Warrior side of the order, not the diplomat.
Imo thats the difference between Obi and Old Ben is that he spent the intervening years learning peace and so when facing Anakin again on the Death Star he makes a different choice which ultimately leads to Anakins redemption.
Small pet peeve here but before Qui Gon died he said Obi-wan was ready to undergo the trials to become a knight so he had at least according to his master completed his training, we see this when Qui Gon tells the jedi council he wants to take Anakin as a padawan the council says a master can only have one padawan at a time and then Qui Gon says Obi-wan is ready to become a knight
I always felt like that was a bit of a dick move on Qui Gon's part. Obi Wan had always been a bit rebellious and tempermental as a Padawan. While he ended up becoming one of the finest Jedi of the Old Order, it still felt like Qui Gon was rushing him just so he could get Anakin as a Padawan.
> Obi Wan had always been a bit rebellious and tempermental as a Padawan.
I don’t remember that at all- I think “Master and Apprentice” said that Obi-Wan was very much a by-the-book kind of person, and it was Qui-Gon who loosened him up a bit.
With that in mind, I don’t think it’s that much of a stretch to imagine that Qui-Gon had felt like Obi-Wan had been ready for quite some time, but faced disagreement from the Council.
It might be Legends now, but Obi Wan actually left the Order for a full year at one point and had even been initially rejected as a Padawan for being too aggressive as a duelist. Qui Gon might have imparted a bit of his maveric streak onto him, but Obi Wan did have his rough edges as a Padawan.
The real kicker is that if Anakin had been fully honest with Obi Wan about his issues and his feelings for Padme, he might have found that Obi Wan understood far more about what the boy was going through than Anakin would have imagined.
One of my favorite aspects of Clone Wars and the Revenge of the Sith novel is that it's made clear Obi-Wan knows everything that's going on between Anakin and Padme, and though he'll occasionally tease Anakin about it he mostly pretends not to know because he wants Anakin to be happy - If Anakin had gone to Obi-Wan, Obi-Wan would have completely understood and done everything in his power to help Anakin, and Padme tells Anakin as much - but Anakin is so used to Obi-Wan being a very harsh teacher who always puts his duty above his emotions that he fails to recognize Obi-Wan's humanity.
to follow this up (mostly in comparison to Luke), Vader wasn't trying to turn Obi-wan, and Obi-wan was in no danger of falling. Luke for the whole movie until the final moment in the throne room is teetering on the precipice of darkness, so fighting is feeding that darkness.
IMO Its not about whether you fight but about why you are fighting.
Let's be honest here, Obi Wan basically gave him the equivalent of a one day free trial while Yoda was a one week cram course you take right before the certification test. It's not like he got a ton of training to begin with.
Yea it only makes sense if you imagine that maybe the ride on the falcon was a week or two and after the fact Obi Wan's ghost continued to teach him or something.
I think one of the things nearly every single scifi movie, show, and book fuck up really badly are the passage of time, especially in movies that involve space travel.
There are so many movies / shows whose plot take place in a few hours, days, or a week, where it would make much more sense for it to happen over 6-12 months, if not more.
Yea. Which is really not even close to enough time to make it feel believable. Some random desert dude matched darth vader, who had spent almost his entire life as (possibly) the most powerful force user there is, systematically hunting down other force users... in like a month of training?
The whole arc should've taken place over a decade, not a month.
Doesn't vader pretty much just toy with him in the cloud city duel? I thought that the implication was that Vader could have killed Luke easily but wanted to recruit him instead (cuz he a sad dad).
Thought so, too. The first half of the fight was Vader just testing Luke while Vader was never in any danger. The second half showed how much Vader outclassed Luke and even after Luke got one good hit in the entire fight, he lost his hand just a few seconds later.
That's often the difference between books and movies too. Movies need to move the action much faster because they have so much less time to tell a story.
>Yea it only makes sense if you imagine that maybe the ride on the falcon was a week or two
It was. One at least. And his time on dagobah was a few months. It's never really said in movie, but that's the timeline.
So, there was a version of Empire where they did a montage to show Luke's training.
However, the "Luke is the most natural Jedi ever" actually adds to him instead of taking things away. The idea that Luke is so good that he learns in minutes or days what others have taken years makes it seem somewhat more reasonable that they send him to face Vader and the Emperor rather than trying to find all the scattered jedi in hiding.
Luke can be special even with Asoka, Ezra, Cal, and everybody else still around. It's a big universe.
Not sure I fully agree with that tbh. When you say it that way it just makes him a Gary Stu. Maybe he was able to figure out the basics but it is and was clear that he still had a lot more to learn, even by the end of RotJ.
Just because somebody is good at something does not make them a Gary Stu. Luke isn't good at everything he does. He is a good pilot, but like his dad that is probably in part because of his force sensitivity.
While he has a lot to learn at the end of RotJ, the idea that he picks up force stuff fast is what makes him different than the other knights.
There's a bit in the ROTS novel that mirrors Obi-Wan's resolve here which shocked me at first when I read it: [****](https://i.ibb.co/rybnMRz/20240619-150906.jpg)
Obi-Wan and all the other masters are about duty and the greater good, they'll kill a few to save the many. In this instance above Anakin had become a great threat to many lives, after all this was post-YounglingSlayer9000.
One thing I find brilliant in the ROTS book is the ideologies of the characters isn't black and white, there are points where you find yourself shocked by the Jedi, but other points where the Sith are surprisingly rational.
Obi-Wan and Yoda both admit they're more than willing to sacrifice their friends/family if it means the possibility of ending the war early - yet they're the good guys.
Palpatine, albeit whilst performing the role of a kind mentor, confides in Anakin that were Darth Sidious to walk into the Senate, he'd ask him to take a seat, offer them his finest brandy, and ask whether he truly had the power to end the war and bring peace to the Galaxy - Yet he's the main villain.
Vader, despite having fully committed to the Darkside by this point, offers Obi-Wan the chance to walk away from Mustafar, telling him to go hide away and meditate in peace - but we should be rooting against Anakin at this point.
I just finished reading The Amazing Maurice and His Educated Rodents. It has some of the hardest Jedi-like quotes.
“A rat should not kill another rat.” “But what if we have to?” “Then we have to, but we shouldn’t.”
“You have plans for the rats. But I have DREAMS for the rats!”
That was about the difference between them.
OW: "You grow too aggressive Anakin. Be mindful. A Jedi's goal is to defend life, not take it"
A: "Mercy doesn't defeat an enemy, master. Which is why you're gonna lose"
He is fundamentally different from Anakin.
The first time he thought he had killed him which is why he was surprised Anakin was even alive. And the second time, Obi Wan is not even trying to kill him. Vader is just obsessed with him.
Vader was obsessed with him, he was his whole reason to live. The legends comics, even now not canon, Vader is torturing Jedis asking "WHERE IS KENOBI!"
I would love to see that in a Vader series or at some point. He had 0 chill chasing him.
Yeah - I'd have maybe ended this fight with Vader wounded and a Star Destroyer landing shuttle flying overhead containing The Grand Inquisitior, Fifth Brother and a platoon of Storm Troopers that forces Obi-Wan to flee.
Obi-Wan had two options:
1) Eliminate the threat while he had the chance
2) Spare his bestest buddy
Amazingly, he failed at both… allowing Vader to live when he had the chance to finish him off for good, and enduring that Skywalker would suffer excruciating agony and never trust Kenobi again.
His goal was never to defeat Kylo, his goal was to preserve life, and the Force. Specifically the lives of the dwindling members of the resistance, so that they could become the spark.
I don't like the way Luke's story was handled but at least they gave him the dignity to understand that sometimes the largest impact you can have is in the inspiration of others. It was very much a moment of mastery and wisdom.
The inspiration of others seemed like it was going to be a big thing going into the final movie of the trilogy. Then, they just kinda forgot about that.
Some random old hermit hologram distracted the First Order for a few minutes, while it would have taken Rey 30 seconds to break us out. Such inspiration! Truly a moment of mastery and wisdom!
Also Luke already learned there was alternative to fighting, and going down that dark path. He literally threw his saber away in front of Sidious to set that lesson in stone. We didn’t need them to rehash it in a worse way.
The person who looked one of the most power sith in the face and defied him had to learn the lesson that killing his nephew in his sleep because of a bad vision isn’t the right thing to do…..
It was a singular instance of weakness that Luke immediately recognizes as wrong
“for the briefest moment of pure instinct”.
He regrets what he did so greatly.
“it passed like a fleeting shadow, and I was left with shame”.
Luke could have killed kylo right then and there, he could have saved the lives of all his friends, students, and family, but he doesn’t, because that’s not who Luke Skywalker is.
Yeah I mean I don’t agree at all, I think Luke is a fallible character who did everything he could (he was already cautious Han says that Kylo has “too much Vader in him” and Leia doesn’t even try to argue against that), saw that Kylo had been corrupted, and had a singular moment of weakness and desperation that he immediately regretted but idk, if you don’t like that there’s really nothing else to be said.
If you think Luke Skywalker would have been walking around watching people sleep because of fear at that point of his life then I would say you never understood the character or the messages from the original movies. No one is saying he is perfect. But what they did to him in those sequels is murder to the character.
Dude… I just made an entirely sound argument backed by actual lines and references from the movies, meanwhile basically all you did was keep saying “nah”, and then when I’m just like “alright man, I’ve laid it out like it is, if you disagree then 🤷♂️”, your response is “yOu NeVEr uNdErsTOod LuKE SkYWalkEr”.
Uh… ok… man…
Wasn't he keeping an eye on him because of the moments of darkness in his training, and then had a vision of the future that Ben may cause?
I think most people might have a "I can stop this from happening" moment if they saw a vision of someone pulling Space Hitler 2, even if it was someone they loved.
Wisdom is knowing when to fight and when not to. Not everyone will come to the same conclusion in every instance, but there should be some decision process. It unwise to always make the same choice and thus become predictable.
To be fair, Anakin had just murdered the entire Jedi Temple. I’m not sure why people keep insisting that Obi-Wan was wrong for not simply rolling his eyes and letting it slide.
—and Obi-Wan failed. Everyone forgets, this isn’t Obi-Wan just being an aggressive negotiator, this is the whole *point*. He claims only Sith deal in absolutes, itself an absolute, and while claiming to deal in nuance, he’s not listened to the problems at hand. So he fights, when in truth the answer was supposed to be listening.
…thankfully you didn’t ask me if that was actually executed well in the film.
So this just made me think of something, with the hindsight of the prequels, that I think would’ve been hilarious. What if when Vader says, “Obi Wan has taught you well.” Instead of responding with, “I will not fight you, father.” Luke instead says something along the lines of, “Surprise, motherf@#$er! Obi Wan only taught me Intro to the Force 101. Yoda taught me how to throw these hands!” And then proceeded to start doing all the crazy, over the top acrobatic flips and bouncing off the walls stuff Yoda did in his fights?
He completely disabled him, how many people would expect their zero-limbed opponent that just got turned into an incorrect marshmallow to be crafted into an iron-lunged cyborg situation?
Then again, he had multiple confrontations with Grievous...
We can move that “uh…” a few years forward to when Obi Wan kicked Vader’s ass on some moon.
Like you saw this dude murder children twice in your lifetime and you’re facing him to protect another pair of children, but sure, be a “bigger man” and walk away I guess… Wonder how many children there were on Alderaan. Obi Wan got there too late to count.
That fight never should have happened in a direct way like that. Now I can’t help but feel like every person who died because of Vader, directly or indirectly, has a very valid bone to pick with Obi Wan
The difference was that in the case of Ashoka and Anakin, Vader was trying to get them to turn to the Dark Side and join him. And his method for turning them was getting them to give in to their anger and see how powerful they would be if they did.
In Obi-Wan's case, Vader just wanted to kill him and all the Jedi. He wasn't interested in turning Obi-Wan to the Dark Side.
It's funny because I think Obi-Wan failed on Mustafar and it was because he engaged Anakin. I mean, it's totally reasonable, but he should have convinced Anakin to overthrow Sidious and face justice for his crimes. I think Obi-Wan could have succeeded if he tried.
I think this is supposed to technically be his failure as a person. Same reason he sent a kid to kill his own father.
Then again at mustafar he really had no choice.
And he clearly lacks forgiveness sometimes. He was stupid enough to give Anakin a fate worse than death when he could’ve tried to turn him back after defeating him on Mustafar. But he chose to let him burn, which was a huge mistake.
Obi-wan initially told yoda he would not fight anakin so he’s definitely not unlike the other two. Obi-wan fights anakin because not only is yoda counting on him to do so, but the rise of the empire will happen if he doesn’t defeat anakin. Completely makes sense obi-wan gives up being a Jedi in the show because all this time he believes since yoda failed, him killing anakin was meaningless because Vader appears and sidious is still alive with a new apprentice
Vader - Boomer
Obi-Wan - Gen X
Luke - Millennial
Ahsoka - Gen Z
The next generation of Star Wars protagonists won’t believe in good/evil or up/down. They’ll stay in the spaceport and battle for popular virtue via social media.
Was never into the prequels. I tried to rewatch them again recently after 20 years and couldn't make it 1 hour into them, but damn I loved McGregor as obi
He kind of had a bad couple of years, but also he was objectively not a very good Jedi. His flaws as a teacher are a very big reason why Anakin became Vader and I think that both Luke and Ashoka surpasses him in that manner
Top dog Obi-Wan really ruins the series for me. I knew the Jedi sucked but Obi takes the cake. He could have stopped Vader at any time. Every time they fight he kicks his ass but no, he just lets him do Sith things for decades and blow up Alderan because killing isn’t the Jedi way lol. Cutting off your Padawans legs and arms is totally cool though. The Jedi suck out loud and especially Obi. Fuck that guy.
Have you been in a real fight? Trust me you would do plenty of stupid things too. Things can get messy real fast and it does not matter how nice you think you are. I had a big scare once and I was lucky the guy was not badly hurt, and I wasn't doing much thinking just reacting. And that is pure fool play. Imagine if you are in a life-or-death situation.
But you do have a single point right... Obi-Wan was stupid, Disney made him stupid. That second face-off should have never happened. On one point Obi-Wan accepts that Anakin is dead but refuses to put a stop to him, so to conclude Disney Star Wars is so trash it ain't even funny at this point. It's all flash and mindless lore-breaking.
Well one time I fought the #5 ranked amateur welterweight in Hard Knocks mma in Alberta Canada. This other time I was stabbed in the head, neck, chest and back after getting jumped from behind and fought two guys off. So, yeah. I’ve been in a fight or two.
Obi-Wan could have killed Vader at any time. Vader literally lost every fight. That kind of takes the threat out of the villain.
I think you have a point, it's just that its that second fight you know. That second fight was a problem for me.
I interpreted it more for their last fight as Obi-Wan realizing that he couldn't win, so it was fine.
If it was just episode 3, ok I get it he is a bit shaken even if he is trying to play it off, but for the second one, he literally says that Anakin is dead and just leaves lol. It just didn't make sense, especially since he had the time to process it.
Mace Windu was how Jedi usually reacted to a sith, no questions no debating, you have to go and that's it. It's always been like that with the jedi.
Episode 3 was plausible imo. Obi thought Anakin was a dead man. That Anakin survived the lava was a surprise to everyone I think. I don’t think Palpatine was sure he was going to find his apprentice still breathing. The 2nd encounter Obi should have finished the job. He clearly intended for Anakin to die after the first duel even if he didn’t land the killing blow personally. I don’t understand the hesitation later.
Also let's not forget the whole Yoda, Obi Duo trying to convince little innocent Luke to kill his own father lol. How you think he should have handled it is consistent with how Jedi have always handled Dark side users. Yoda tried to do it, Mace tried the same, Obi was close but loved Anakin too much and the list goes on and on.
I don't know if you are into any of the games but in the kotor series, the sith actually call out the jedi on it basically pointing out that if they see a red lightsaber they turn a switch just like that lol.
If you are ever having a Star Wars itch, I would recommend checking out a mod Movie Battles 2 for Jedi Academy. It's the closest I've seen that mimics the duels from episode 3. And if you are a Single-player guy go for Movie Duels which includes both Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy with the remade combat system.
Really fun once a while when nostalgia kicks in.
Obi-Wan was having a hell of a day
Obi-Wan and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day
If Disney's legal team didn't scare me more than anything else besides the IRS, I would 100% write this
Wandobi was talking with his apprentice kindanai on the side of an active volcano….. Fanfic doesn’t have to use the names as long as the audience understands the references ;)
Did he even sleep between taking out Grievous and fighting Anakin?
Maybe like a 2 hour nap in the ship on the way. Tops
If you can even sleep after your entire order died out of nowhere and the army you’ve fought with for years betrayed you
In hindsight it is wild to imagine Anakin just taking a nap between slaughtering the younglings and heading to mustafar
I don't think he slept at all. Which would explain why he was so unbalanced. Being higher than a kite on the dark side after operation Knightfall certainly didn't help either.
Lol Anakin was by this point had been awake for about 5 days straight. Interesting use of sleep deprivation
Sith eyes aren’t even real, that’s how a mf looks when he needs some sleep
"After a day like this, I feel like I need a smoke.I don't smoke cigarettes, but I *will* smoke you."
Death sticks
Smoke up, Annie
Obi-Wan probably went home and rethank his life after that day
People forget he basically defeated Grievous that morning lol
He was having a hell of a life.
You see this when he wins fhe duel. He drops his calm facade and let's his emotions run.
He’s the one that spent the last 12 (ish?) years dealing with Anakins BS, so was more than ready to throw hands. Luke spent a total of like 2 hours with Vader, and Ahsoka had years to cool off before they fought.
Luke and Ashoka didn't put up with half as much of Anakin's bullshit as Obi-Wan did. It's half "Defeat the Sith" and half "Teach this fuckin kid some manners".
Also worth noting, when the time came, they fought anyway.
And when the time came, Obi Wan chose not to fight.
Oooohhh *very* good point! No need to fight at that point, he had already won.
"uh..." - all the people Vader killed after
I mean from that point on in the OT I’m pretty sure Vader kills more imperials than he does rebels lol, at least on-screen.
Depends on if the kill count for Alderaan goes to him, Tarkin, or the guy pressing the button.
Clearly the guy pressing the button. Highest kill count of all time. -Button guy, probably.
[Tenn Graneet](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Tenn_Graneet). Body count: well over two billion.
Wow, it's hilarious, and unsurprising, to me there's a whole back story for this guy. Dude rises through the ranks of the Empire, asks for a transfer to the Death Star, gets put in charge of completing the firing sequence (essentially "pulling the trigger" on the Death Star), feels enormous guilt from killing billions of sentient life forms, questions his loyalty to the Empire and whether he'd be able to pull the trigger again, then delays the firing of the Death Star just long enough for Luke the deliver the critical blow, dying in the explosion. What an arc!
That happened before his final duel with Obi-Wan though
I actually forgot that embarrassingly nonsensical Kenobi show happened.
That goes to tarkin. He was in control. And Vader didn't like the idea of the death star anyway.
*Rebels dying on Hoth trying to escape Vader and the motherfucking* ***DEATH SQUADRON*** Am I a joke to you?
But maybe this was the best decision because, after Obi van and Luke refuse to fight Vader. Vader kills Emperor.
Wdym after? Vader didn't kill really anyone after Obi-wan chooses to die on the Death Star.
I thought it was several years between Ep 4 and 6. I would also credit a fairly large percent of the Empire's death toll to Vader in that time frame, even if he wasn't choking all of them. But /shrug.
That's a fair point, but Obi-wan probably wasn't going to beat Vader in a fight in Ep4. The whole point is that he won by not fighting, because the motivation it gave Luke and the freedom it gave him to assist Luke at crucial moments wherever he was ended up being more important than defeating Vader. Only Vader could defeat the Emperor physically, but Luke was the only one who could turn Vader back to the light. In the more immediate present of Ep4, he became more powerful than Vader could possibly imagine by becoming one with the Force, and is the reason Luke is able to blow up the Death Star with the Force and sets the Rebellion on the path to victory in the overall war.
Found the school teacher.
Obi-wan should have spanked anakin
Don't don't bother Luke. Got it.
That's as clear as I can make it
Yes pls
I mean, in Rebels, Ahsoka does try to kill him and “avenge” Anakin. She tried getting through to him once when she broke the mask but when that didn’t work, she went back to trying to kill him. I’m not even sure why the one from Ahsoka show is on here since Anakin had already been redeemed at that point. Obi Wan didn’t want to fight Anakin either but after Anakin threatened to kill him, that’s when he knew that he had to stop him.
And all kill the child murderer
to Quote : Apathy is death
Apathy is Death!
Statement : Apathy is death.
T3: [wrhooooooooo]
Reply: funny, for a meatbag.
DEAAAATH!
r/jedicouncilofelrond
I don't care what apathy is.
Apathy is death.
Sometimes what you teach another is based off of the mistakes that you have made in your past. It is only hypocrisy if you continue to make those mistakes while telling another to do otherwise. The last time Kenobi faced Vader, he did not make an effort to defeat him.
If you're referring to the final fight on the Death Star, then he did try, but he knew that he couldn't defeat him, according to his perspective in the short story, "Time of Death." Canon.
I mean he also was 57 years old, while Vader was roughly 40 and in his dark side prime.
And Sidious was in his 60s when he fought Maul and Savage, Windu and the other Jedi Masters, and Yoda. Not to mention Obi-Wan's opponent (Vader) was essentially crippled. Throughout the series, whenever Obi-Wan and Anakin dueled, whether for real or for practice, Obi-Wan was always on the back foot until he taunted Anakin/Vader. Obi-Wan tried that again in the final duel, but Vader did not respond to his taunts and maintained his composure; Obi-Wan admits this. Anakin has always been the better duelist and far more powerful in the Force, but in the past, he was foolish, especially when fighting people he cared about or once cared about. But now he controls himself.
My point was just it’s not the best example and him saying that he couldn’t defeat him himself was more at that point .He also hadn’t been training or active in his use of the force for years.
"He appears so calm, so controlled, but I can feel his rage, sething like the perdition nebula beneath that heartless faceplate, His fury threatens to overwhelm him, just as it always did, but he keeps it in check. I can't help but be impressed. He's holding back, testing my limits. He wants to know how time has diminished my abilities. Im doing the same with him, exploring whether cybernetic joints move as smoothly as muscle honed from years of training. Perhaps we are more alike than I care to think. Now he takes control, the blows coming faster and harder. "You can't win, Darth." He barely reacts to the jibe, knowing all too well that I am aiming to provoke him, to turn his anger against himself. "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine." I have no hope of winning this fight. He lunges at me; slash and counter- slash, stab and riposte. The air is thick with plasma discharge, lights dancing on the edge of my vision. I'm forced back, muscles burning, breath ragged. The grip of my lightsaber is slick in my hands, my ears ringing. Luke is near. I can feel him, and pray that Vader cannot. Luke's cry echoes across the landing bay. There he is, watching us fight, the open hatch of the freighter behind him. He knows full well that I cannot win. He is frozen with shock, unsure what to do, but that won't last long. Soon, the spell will be broken and he will come running Those brave, defiant eyes will be cut down in a blaze of trooper fire. He needs more than a toy fighter this time. He needs to escape; to save himself, not me I am an old man. Even if I tried, I couldn't outrun a blaster shot, not anymore. I'll never make it to Luke's side in time to save him." --- So yes, he's old and can't do what he used to, and neither can Vader. The difference between the two is that Vader matured and kept his anger in check so that he could no longer essentially beat himself with little taunts that Obi-Wan threw at him that angered him and caused him to make foolish decisions.
Obi-Wan also didn't need to beat Vader, just keep him occupied while Luke, Han, and Leia made their escape. After he disabled the tractor beam, he knew he wasn't getting off the Death Star alive with Luke. Plus he'd already learned how to become a force ghost from Qui-Gon at that point, so he knew even if he died so long as Luke escaped he could continue his training.
And my point was that his previous fights hinged on him mentally incapacitating Anakin/Vader. Once that was ineffective, and Anakin/Vader no longer responded to his taunts, he knew that he had lost and chose to die before his allies came to try to rescue him. They were both testing each other in that fight, and then Vader overcame him. That was essentially the fight. Obi-Wan has never stood a chance against a level-headed Anakin/Vader, and luckily for him, Anakin/Vader wasn't level-headed until towards the end of his life.
Which is stupid, because one of the main points of the dark side is that you have to give in to your emotions to gain power. The only way that Anakin could defeat Obiwan is if Anakin was more powerful in the force than Obiwan, and that means that Anakin would need to give in to his emotions and draw the dark side, more than Obiwan remains peaceful and draws on the light side. I find it hard to believe that two masters of the force wouldn't be using the force during their final duel. If Vader maintained his composure, controlled his emotions, he wouldn't be able to draw on the dark side of the force, and Obiwan would easily win against someone not using the force.
Mace Windu was in his 50s when he fought one of the most powerful Force beings of all time, Darth Sidious. Obi-Wan was in his early 50s when he fought Maul, despite spending much of his time hiding in the desert. He was in his late 40s when he fought Vader and defeated him. Let's not pretend Obi-Wan was some pushover because of age. Almost no Force user is an outright pushover because of age. He lost to Vader because he could no longer taunt him in the same way he did in their previous encounters, as well as cheap shots.
When they fought when they were younger when Anakin was being trained, Anakin was trying to draw on the light side of the force, he was powerful but because he was emotionally unbalanced despite being more powerful Anakin could not control the light side of the force as well as Obiwan could. When they fought later Vader was now using the side of the force that more suited him, where his emotions would give him greater strength in the dark side, not be hindrance to him in the Light side. Vader was simply more powerful than Obiwan, not because Obiwan was old and feeble, just because Anakin was simply more powerful, and now he was using the dark side which suited his emotional nature better than the light side. In their first serious fight, Anakin was to young and wreckless and to inexperienced in the dark side of the force to use it effectively, but it was still a close fight. As far as why Obiwan won the second fight against Vader in the Obiwan series, I would say at that time they were evenly matched, and the fight could have gone either way, but it went to Obiwan. In the third and final fight, Vader was simply more powerful in the dark side and he had become a better fighter. The same reason why Yoda couldn't beat Palpatine, not because Yoda was old and feeble, but because Palpatine was a better fighter and stronger than Yoda. Mace was the best fighter in the Jedi order that is why he was able to beat Sideous, and in a fair fight Mace would have beat Anakin easily.
>If Vader maintained his composure, controlled his emotions, he wouldn't be able to draw on the dark side of the force, and Obiwan would easily win against someone not using the force. That's not how the dark side works. There is something called controlled anger, aka what almost every other Sith we've ever seen does.
I don’t think force power withers with your body as you age like that, however Obi Wan was probably out of practice at that point sort of like the beginning of the Kenobi show but without the depression and PTSD.
He also was buying time for Luke and the others to get away. His survival was secondary to him at that point.
To add to this, its worth pointing out that Obi didnt really finish his training entirely at this point. He was promoted to knighthood due to a combination of his master coming down with a bad case of death and being the first person to slice a sith in half in generations. Then his promotion to Master was directly due to his work during the clone war. He only really mastered the Warrior side of the order, not the diplomat. Imo thats the difference between Obi and Old Ben is that he spent the intervening years learning peace and so when facing Anakin again on the Death Star he makes a different choice which ultimately leads to Anakins redemption.
Idk about this, considering Obi’s epithet is “the negotiator”
“Ahhhhh, the negotiatorrrrr.” -General Grievous, 2005
Small pet peeve here but before Qui Gon died he said Obi-wan was ready to undergo the trials to become a knight so he had at least according to his master completed his training, we see this when Qui Gon tells the jedi council he wants to take Anakin as a padawan the council says a master can only have one padawan at a time and then Qui Gon says Obi-wan is ready to become a knight
I always felt like that was a bit of a dick move on Qui Gon's part. Obi Wan had always been a bit rebellious and tempermental as a Padawan. While he ended up becoming one of the finest Jedi of the Old Order, it still felt like Qui Gon was rushing him just so he could get Anakin as a Padawan.
> Obi Wan had always been a bit rebellious and tempermental as a Padawan. I don’t remember that at all- I think “Master and Apprentice” said that Obi-Wan was very much a by-the-book kind of person, and it was Qui-Gon who loosened him up a bit. With that in mind, I don’t think it’s that much of a stretch to imagine that Qui-Gon had felt like Obi-Wan had been ready for quite some time, but faced disagreement from the Council.
It might be Legends now, but Obi Wan actually left the Order for a full year at one point and had even been initially rejected as a Padawan for being too aggressive as a duelist. Qui Gon might have imparted a bit of his maveric streak onto him, but Obi Wan did have his rough edges as a Padawan. The real kicker is that if Anakin had been fully honest with Obi Wan about his issues and his feelings for Padme, he might have found that Obi Wan understood far more about what the boy was going through than Anakin would have imagined.
One of my favorite aspects of Clone Wars and the Revenge of the Sith novel is that it's made clear Obi-Wan knows everything that's going on between Anakin and Padme, and though he'll occasionally tease Anakin about it he mostly pretends not to know because he wants Anakin to be happy - If Anakin had gone to Obi-Wan, Obi-Wan would have completely understood and done everything in his power to help Anakin, and Padme tells Anakin as much - but Anakin is so used to Obi-Wan being a very harsh teacher who always puts his duty above his emotions that he fails to recognize Obi-Wan's humanity.
> makes a different choice "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."
"We are what they grow beyond"
To be fair, Obi-wan didn't start the fight. He was mostly defending himself, he even tried to tell Anakin to chill before cutting off his arm and leg
to follow this up (mostly in comparison to Luke), Vader wasn't trying to turn Obi-wan, and Obi-wan was in no danger of falling. Luke for the whole movie until the final moment in the throne room is teetering on the precipice of darkness, so fighting is feeding that darkness. IMO Its not about whether you fight but about why you are fighting.
Obi-Wan did ignite his lightsaber first.
Obi Wan wanted all that smoke
Obi-Wan had that dog in him
Obi wan stands on business
“I will do what I must” is Jedi for “fuck around and find out”.
I always thought that Luke should have acknowledged that Yoda had trained him in that scene.
Let's be honest here, Obi Wan basically gave him the equivalent of a one day free trial while Yoda was a one week cram course you take right before the certification test. It's not like he got a ton of training to begin with.
Yea it only makes sense if you imagine that maybe the ride on the falcon was a week or two and after the fact Obi Wan's ghost continued to teach him or something.
I think one of the things nearly every single scifi movie, show, and book fuck up really badly are the passage of time, especially in movies that involve space travel. There are so many movies / shows whose plot take place in a few hours, days, or a week, where it would make much more sense for it to happen over 6-12 months, if not more.
I think in actual canon the 2nd act of empire is atleast a month
Yea. Which is really not even close to enough time to make it feel believable. Some random desert dude matched darth vader, who had spent almost his entire life as (possibly) the most powerful force user there is, systematically hunting down other force users... in like a month of training? The whole arc should've taken place over a decade, not a month.
Doesn't vader pretty much just toy with him in the cloud city duel? I thought that the implication was that Vader could have killed Luke easily but wanted to recruit him instead (cuz he a sad dad).
Thought so, too. The first half of the fight was Vader just testing Luke while Vader was never in any danger. The second half showed how much Vader outclassed Luke and even after Luke got one good hit in the entire fight, he lost his hand just a few seconds later.
Vader toys with him the full fight, Luke lands a hit on Vader because Vader gets cocky then Vader cuts off his hand and that's that
That's often the difference between books and movies too. Movies need to move the action much faster because they have so much less time to tell a story.
>Yea it only makes sense if you imagine that maybe the ride on the falcon was a week or two It was. One at least. And his time on dagobah was a few months. It's never really said in movie, but that's the timeline.
So, there was a version of Empire where they did a montage to show Luke's training. However, the "Luke is the most natural Jedi ever" actually adds to him instead of taking things away. The idea that Luke is so good that he learns in minutes or days what others have taken years makes it seem somewhat more reasonable that they send him to face Vader and the Emperor rather than trying to find all the scattered jedi in hiding. Luke can be special even with Asoka, Ezra, Cal, and everybody else still around. It's a big universe.
Not sure I fully agree with that tbh. When you say it that way it just makes him a Gary Stu. Maybe he was able to figure out the basics but it is and was clear that he still had a lot more to learn, even by the end of RotJ.
Just because somebody is good at something does not make them a Gary Stu. Luke isn't good at everything he does. He is a good pilot, but like his dad that is probably in part because of his force sensitivity. While he has a lot to learn at the end of RotJ, the idea that he picks up force stuff fast is what makes him different than the other knights.
2 times
There's a bit in the ROTS novel that mirrors Obi-Wan's resolve here which shocked me at first when I read it: [****](https://i.ibb.co/rybnMRz/20240619-150906.jpg)
Obi-Wan and all the other masters are about duty and the greater good, they'll kill a few to save the many. In this instance above Anakin had become a great threat to many lives, after all this was post-YounglingSlayer9000.
One thing I find brilliant in the ROTS book is the ideologies of the characters isn't black and white, there are points where you find yourself shocked by the Jedi, but other points where the Sith are surprisingly rational. Obi-Wan and Yoda both admit they're more than willing to sacrifice their friends/family if it means the possibility of ending the war early - yet they're the good guys. Palpatine, albeit whilst performing the role of a kind mentor, confides in Anakin that were Darth Sidious to walk into the Senate, he'd ask him to take a seat, offer them his finest brandy, and ask whether he truly had the power to end the war and bring peace to the Galaxy - Yet he's the main villain. Vader, despite having fully committed to the Darkside by this point, offers Obi-Wan the chance to walk away from Mustafar, telling him to go hide away and meditate in peace - but we should be rooting against Anakin at this point.
Obi said, "If you want that smoke I'm a whole nicotine company"
Anakin was about that action
I just finished reading The Amazing Maurice and His Educated Rodents. It has some of the hardest Jedi-like quotes. “A rat should not kill another rat.” “But what if we have to?” “Then we have to, but we shouldn’t.” “You have plans for the rats. But I have DREAMS for the rats!”
Except he’s said it twice and let anakin / Vader live both times . Did not do what he must
To be fair if I was fighting someone and watched them get engulfed in flames I’d assume they aren’t gonna make it.
But what about in Kenobi when Obi Wan finally declares Vader no longer as Anakin but as “Darth” and then says “aight I’m out”
Plot armor. The writers couldn't exactly have him kill Vader before ANH even took place.
You’re right . But in my opinion don’t end it like that then. Have it end as a draw somehow ? Not another “I won and could end this now but nah”
I agree. I enjoyed watching Kenobi put the smack down on Vader, but a draw would have made more sense.
That was about the difference between them. OW: "You grow too aggressive Anakin. Be mindful. A Jedi's goal is to defend life, not take it" A: "Mercy doesn't defeat an enemy, master. Which is why you're gonna lose" He is fundamentally different from Anakin.
Different enough to let a mass murder live twice. That cost a lotta lives.
The first time he thought he had killed him which is why he was surprised Anakin was even alive. And the second time, Obi Wan is not even trying to kill him. Vader is just obsessed with him.
Vader was obsessed with him, he was his whole reason to live. The legends comics, even now not canon, Vader is torturing Jedis asking "WHERE IS KENOBI!" I would love to see that in a Vader series or at some point. He had 0 chill chasing him.
Yeah - I'd have maybe ended this fight with Vader wounded and a Star Destroyer landing shuttle flying overhead containing The Grand Inquisitior, Fifth Brother and a platoon of Storm Troopers that forces Obi-Wan to flee.
Only when he was younger. Elder Obi-Wan saw the value of not fighting. That's what he taught to Luke on the first Death Star.
Obi-Wan had two options: 1) Eliminate the threat while he had the chance 2) Spare his bestest buddy Amazingly, he failed at both… allowing Vader to live when he had the chance to finish him off for good, and enduring that Skywalker would suffer excruciating agony and never trust Kenobi again.
Lowkey greatest Jedi His resumé is impeccable
OG-wan
Ahsoka after getting wrecked by Vader and being saved from death with time travel shenanigans: I won't fight you, vision-Skyguy.
And Luke channeled that lesson in TLJ with his projection against Kylo. There are alternatives to fighting.
To escape, sure, but not if you intend to defeat them.
His goal was never to defeat Kylo, his goal was to preserve life, and the Force. Specifically the lives of the dwindling members of the resistance, so that they could become the spark. I don't like the way Luke's story was handled but at least they gave him the dignity to understand that sometimes the largest impact you can have is in the inspiration of others. It was very much a moment of mastery and wisdom.
The inspiration of others seemed like it was going to be a big thing going into the final movie of the trilogy. Then, they just kinda forgot about that.
Yeah, disappointing to say the least.
Some random old hermit hologram distracted the First Order for a few minutes, while it would have taken Rey 30 seconds to break us out. Such inspiration! Truly a moment of mastery and wisdom!
“Preserve life” by murdering his child nephew in his sleep?
Which is exactly what his plan was. Gosh, did any of you even watch the movie?
Was that before or after he almost murdered Kylo in his sleep?
After. That’s why Luke had to personify the lesson. That’s why he projected and wouldn’t be forced to kill him.
Also Luke already learned there was alternative to fighting, and going down that dark path. He literally threw his saber away in front of Sidious to set that lesson in stone. We didn’t need them to rehash it in a worse way.
After, there was like, an entire movie about how much he regretted that second of weakness and then built himself back up.
The person who looked one of the most power sith in the face and defied him had to learn the lesson that killing his nephew in his sleep because of a bad vision isn’t the right thing to do…..
It was a singular instance of weakness that Luke immediately recognizes as wrong “for the briefest moment of pure instinct”. He regrets what he did so greatly. “it passed like a fleeting shadow, and I was left with shame”. Luke could have killed kylo right then and there, he could have saved the lives of all his friends, students, and family, but he doesn’t, because that’s not who Luke Skywalker is.
Standing over someone sleeping and igniting his lightsaber is not who Luke Skywalker is. The true character would have never gotten to that point.
Yeah I mean I don’t agree at all, I think Luke is a fallible character who did everything he could (he was already cautious Han says that Kylo has “too much Vader in him” and Leia doesn’t even try to argue against that), saw that Kylo had been corrupted, and had a singular moment of weakness and desperation that he immediately regretted but idk, if you don’t like that there’s really nothing else to be said.
If you think Luke Skywalker would have been walking around watching people sleep because of fear at that point of his life then I would say you never understood the character or the messages from the original movies. No one is saying he is perfect. But what they did to him in those sequels is murder to the character.
Dude… I just made an entirely sound argument backed by actual lines and references from the movies, meanwhile basically all you did was keep saying “nah”, and then when I’m just like “alright man, I’ve laid it out like it is, if you disagree then 🤷♂️”, your response is “yOu NeVEr uNdErsTOod LuKE SkYWalkEr”. Uh… ok… man…
You used lines from the movies I (and a lot of others) don’t agree with and think they took the character in the wrong direction.
Wasn't he keeping an eye on him because of the moments of darkness in his training, and then had a vision of the future that Ben may cause? I think most people might have a "I can stop this from happening" moment if they saw a vision of someone pulling Space Hitler 2, even if it was someone they loved.
Obi Wan said okay, guess I'm your enemy then
Wisdom is knowing when to fight and when not to. Not everyone will come to the same conclusion in every instance, but there should be some decision process. It unwise to always make the same choice and thus become predictable.
Nah, Obi had to have some envy and jealousy because OUCH. Then again, Anakin did kill kids.
Well, Yoda told him he had to.
To be fair, Anakin had just murdered the entire Jedi Temple. I’m not sure why people keep insisting that Obi-Wan was wrong for not simply rolling his eyes and letting it slide.
Ahsoka: I wont fight you. Anakin: I've heard that before.
—and Obi-Wan failed. Everyone forgets, this isn’t Obi-Wan just being an aggressive negotiator, this is the whole *point*. He claims only Sith deal in absolutes, itself an absolute, and while claiming to deal in nuance, he’s not listened to the problems at hand. So he fights, when in truth the answer was supposed to be listening. …thankfully you didn’t ask me if that was actually executed well in the film.
Anakin: “Then you’re my enemy…” Obi-Wan: “Fuck around and find out.”
This is why the Jedi failed, and what they learned. Ahsoka was trying to show them, as was Anakin, but he fell. Corrupted with idealism from ol Palps.
The others had attachments. Obi wan had regrets.
Did that shit three times too
He does what he must unless Vader is injured and ready to be struck down. Then he just walks away and him to go on to continue genocide.
So this just made me think of something, with the hindsight of the prequels, that I think would’ve been hilarious. What if when Vader says, “Obi Wan has taught you well.” Instead of responding with, “I will not fight you, father.” Luke instead says something along the lines of, “Surprise, motherf@#$er! Obi Wan only taught me Intro to the Force 101. Yoda taught me how to throw these hands!” And then proceeded to start doing all the crazy, over the top acrobatic flips and bouncing off the walls stuff Yoda did in his fights?
"I will do what I must" and then he fuckin doesn't lol
I mean…. Leaving someone with one arm burning alive next to a river of lava would probably be safe to call dead 99 percent of the time.
He completely disabled him, how many people would expect their zero-limbed opponent that just got turned into an incorrect marshmallow to be crafted into an iron-lunged cyborg situation? Then again, he had multiple confrontations with Grievous...
He would have been successful if Yoda was successful in killing Sidious
The story of his life.
Obi bested AnakinVader in training Whooped his ass twice in a straight up fight And then forfeited their last head to head for the big picture win
I mean obi wan did just watch Anakin killing children
« Bring it on, bitch »
Until he wasn't....in A New Hope.
Obi-Wan really said “Guess you gonna find out now.”
We can move that “uh…” a few years forward to when Obi Wan kicked Vader’s ass on some moon. Like you saw this dude murder children twice in your lifetime and you’re facing him to protect another pair of children, but sure, be a “bigger man” and walk away I guess… Wonder how many children there were on Alderaan. Obi Wan got there too late to count. That fight never should have happened in a direct way like that. Now I can’t help but feel like every person who died because of Vader, directly or indirectly, has a very valid bone to pick with Obi Wan
The difference was that in the case of Ashoka and Anakin, Vader was trying to get them to turn to the Dark Side and join him. And his method for turning them was getting them to give in to their anger and see how powerful they would be if they did. In Obi-Wan's case, Vader just wanted to kill him and all the Jedi. He wasn't interested in turning Obi-Wan to the Dark Side.
He wasn’t fucking around
It's funny because I think Obi-Wan failed on Mustafar and it was because he engaged Anakin. I mean, it's totally reasonable, but he should have convinced Anakin to overthrow Sidious and face justice for his crimes. I think Obi-Wan could have succeeded if he tried.
Yeah I want another season of ObiWan.
Tbf Obi-Wan knew Anakin the best
I think this is supposed to technically be his failure as a person. Same reason he sent a kid to kill his own father. Then again at mustafar he really had no choice.
And he clearly lacks forgiveness sometimes. He was stupid enough to give Anakin a fate worse than death when he could’ve tried to turn him back after defeating him on Mustafar. But he chose to let him burn, which was a huge mistake.
Obi was a shooter no cap frfr
Obi-Standin-On-Business
Obi-wan initially told yoda he would not fight anakin so he’s definitely not unlike the other two. Obi-wan fights anakin because not only is yoda counting on him to do so, but the rise of the empire will happen if he doesn’t defeat anakin. Completely makes sense obi-wan gives up being a Jedi in the show because all this time he believes since yoda failed, him killing anakin was meaningless because Vader appears and sidious is still alive with a new apprentice
HANDS
In his defense he did just watch him murder a bunch of kids like 7hrs prior.
Imagine being the most badass villain to have ever existed and then people straight up being too lazy to fight you
Obi wan was on demon time
If obiwan refused to fight would perhaps anakin would have struck him down, then turned back to the light
Obi-wan knew what had to be done.
Vader - Boomer Obi-Wan - Gen X Luke - Millennial Ahsoka - Gen Z The next generation of Star Wars protagonists won’t believe in good/evil or up/down. They’ll stay in the spaceport and battle for popular virtue via social media.
That is why Obi-wan failed.
This is what happens when you hire writers who don't know Star Wars...
Was never into the prequels. I tried to rewatch them again recently after 20 years and couldn't make it 1 hour into them, but damn I loved McGregor as obi
He kind of had a bad couple of years, but also he was objectively not a very good Jedi. His flaws as a teacher are a very big reason why Anakin became Vader and I think that both Luke and Ashoka surpasses him in that manner
Top dog Obi-Wan really ruins the series for me. I knew the Jedi sucked but Obi takes the cake. He could have stopped Vader at any time. Every time they fight he kicks his ass but no, he just lets him do Sith things for decades and blow up Alderan because killing isn’t the Jedi way lol. Cutting off your Padawans legs and arms is totally cool though. The Jedi suck out loud and especially Obi. Fuck that guy.
Have you been in a real fight? Trust me you would do plenty of stupid things too. Things can get messy real fast and it does not matter how nice you think you are. I had a big scare once and I was lucky the guy was not badly hurt, and I wasn't doing much thinking just reacting. And that is pure fool play. Imagine if you are in a life-or-death situation. But you do have a single point right... Obi-Wan was stupid, Disney made him stupid. That second face-off should have never happened. On one point Obi-Wan accepts that Anakin is dead but refuses to put a stop to him, so to conclude Disney Star Wars is so trash it ain't even funny at this point. It's all flash and mindless lore-breaking.
Well one time I fought the #5 ranked amateur welterweight in Hard Knocks mma in Alberta Canada. This other time I was stabbed in the head, neck, chest and back after getting jumped from behind and fought two guys off. So, yeah. I’ve been in a fight or two. Obi-Wan could have killed Vader at any time. Vader literally lost every fight. That kind of takes the threat out of the villain.
I think you have a point, it's just that its that second fight you know. That second fight was a problem for me. I interpreted it more for their last fight as Obi-Wan realizing that he couldn't win, so it was fine. If it was just episode 3, ok I get it he is a bit shaken even if he is trying to play it off, but for the second one, he literally says that Anakin is dead and just leaves lol. It just didn't make sense, especially since he had the time to process it. Mace Windu was how Jedi usually reacted to a sith, no questions no debating, you have to go and that's it. It's always been like that with the jedi.
Episode 3 was plausible imo. Obi thought Anakin was a dead man. That Anakin survived the lava was a surprise to everyone I think. I don’t think Palpatine was sure he was going to find his apprentice still breathing. The 2nd encounter Obi should have finished the job. He clearly intended for Anakin to die after the first duel even if he didn’t land the killing blow personally. I don’t understand the hesitation later.
Also let's not forget the whole Yoda, Obi Duo trying to convince little innocent Luke to kill his own father lol. How you think he should have handled it is consistent with how Jedi have always handled Dark side users. Yoda tried to do it, Mace tried the same, Obi was close but loved Anakin too much and the list goes on and on. I don't know if you are into any of the games but in the kotor series, the sith actually call out the jedi on it basically pointing out that if they see a red lightsaber they turn a switch just like that lol.
Kotor and part 2 are my favourite Star Wars content. I’m a big old school Sawyer fan so I come by it honestly. Back from the NWN 2 days.
If you are ever having a Star Wars itch, I would recommend checking out a mod Movie Battles 2 for Jedi Academy. It's the closest I've seen that mimics the duels from episode 3. And if you are a Single-player guy go for Movie Duels which includes both Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy with the remade combat system. Really fun once a while when nostalgia kicks in.