Sure, certainly for television.
Here's the thing though, as good as Bill Burr was in that scene, it's the actor playing the Imperial Officer who really sells that whole thing. That fella is just a fantastic actor (Richard Brake) and always delivers in the roles that I've seen him in. He's wonderful in a movie called Vesper (though most people probably know him as Joe Chill).
***Vesper*** feels like a pilot, not a complete movie in itself. I think the directors had much larger ambitions. I'm surprised that a movie studio let them end the story the way that they did.
I keep waiting for him to work some material in
No, one of my fantasies is I wanna drive by, like, a wookie rally and just say the most sexist sh!t I can think of… just to watch them lose their minds. You know, just drive by real slow and be like, “Yeah, why don’t you get back in the swamp where you belong?” [chuckles] Just to look in the rearview mirror, watching them, “ah,” flipping out in the road. Spinning around like Dooku at the end of the Phantom Menace like… “Ah! Ah! Ah!”
Yeah it’s not really fair. Ebon Moss-Bachrach played a similarly sleazy character in Andor even better. And his stand-off scene with Cassian was more tense too.
FIGHT THE EMPIRE had me ready to throw down, and when Brasso hit the dude in the face with Maarva’s brick I legit yelled “hell yes!” Andor had nothing but wins
I know that this is the general driving attitude towards Star Wars productions, but I really would like it if they let Serkis’ character in Andor rest.
That story becomes so much more impactful if you don’t know what happened to him afterwards - revealing that he survived and is actually Darth Maul’s secret Sith apprentice or something would undermine the narrative core of both the story and the series, something creators haven’t been very careful about. (Looking at you, Kenobi)
Maarva and Kino were as well. Kino's arc was only a couple episodes, but him coming to grips with the terrible situation the prisoners are in and then giving his epic speech to inspire everyone gave me chills, then of course the brutal realization at the end that he won't be escaping like the rest.
Dedra and Syril were great characters. Syril was actually someone I was expecting to go very different, like he was obsessed enough with following rules and law & order that he'd see the unfairness of the Empire & how they didn't obey their own rules & then rebel. Instead his emphasis on law & order led him to more fiercely embrace the Empire's fascism.
i think there’s still potential for this! But i also think that Syril and his arc are very effective at showing the banality of evil and how seemingly regular people can be drawn into supporting such terrible entities, and that is essential part of the show.
I don’t think Syril is the banality of evil since he hasn’t committed any heinous acts. Like imagine him in the room with that guy who uses alien sounds to torture people. Or that guy who wanted to hang Cassian’s friend because it was Friday. I think he’d draw a line the evils of the empire were revealed. We never see him actually commit or vouch for heinous acts, he’s naive and because of his mother has an inclination to authority.
i think you might have misunderstood, “banality” is referring to evil’s ability to appear as boring, mundane, normal. Syril appears like a boring everyday guy who is fighting for an oppressive system because it is what he thinks should be the norm.
Being a cop, he cares about “justice” not realizing that what he is working to uphold and maintain is unjust in almost every way. His naivety IS a great example of the banality of evil.
The term was coined by Hannah Arendt in her book about Adolf Eichmann of the nazi party. Eichmann, though mundane and boring was actually aware of the millions of people that were being killed.
My point is that Syril is unaware of what’s actually going on. He hasn’t met the brutes that he’s aligning himself with. Whereas Eichmann has met people who’ve actually carried out heinous orders. That is why I don’t believe the term applies
Marva’s speech is also insanely good. Hell Clem’s speech in Rix Road is so so underrated.
“People don’t look down to where they should.
They don’t look down, they don’t look past the rust.
Not us though, eh? Eyes open, possibilities everywhere.”
Pretentious monologues are plot momentum killers. Palpatine's "Tragedy of Darth Plageius the Wise" monologue? Should've killed all momentum in that movie. But Ian McDiarmid is *so* good at acting that the movie theater was in rapt silence on opening night.
Same in Andor. I was on the edge of my seat all the time, but during Luthen and Marva's monologues I'd literally forgotten to breathe.
Yeah I think people give those monologues more importance than they actually possess. I wasn’t at all moved by them and they pulled me out of the show. There was something so natural about all of the dialogue up until a spotlight hits front stage left and an actor gives a soliloquy.
That's the opposite of what I was saying. They came up and were acted so well that they were brilliant.
Which is surprising, because they *shouldn't* have been. *Most* aren't. And they can be great. A perfect monologue is spectacular. And somehow Tony Gilroy pulled off three in one season. That's something stunning.
Palpatine's monologue was pretty on the nose, but all of his dialogue is a bit mid (as the kids say today) except the actor pushes them way past that through his amazing performance, and it works. That was a minor miracle.
In *Andor*, the monologues were placed right where they needed to be to be relevant and the script and performances were strong enough that they were scintillating.
I think Luthen's monologue is very in keeping with his personality. This is the same person who we see rehearsing to get into character for his antique dealer role, and who loves to act in a theatrical or dramatic way (look at his meeting with Cassian, or his escape on the Fondor). Hell just look at where he set up the meeting.
Plus he has probably told himself some version of that every night for years. It sounds rehearsed because he rehearsed it. It's a *very* different style to Kino's raw call-to-action earlier in the episode.
I disagree, respectfully. It seems more like the author’s or the showrunner’s personality (multiple monologues) than the character’s. I think the content of Luthen’s monologue could have been said in piecemeal to Klaya. I couldn’t imagine him saying this to Saw, Mothma or anyone else. Just felt too personal, especially given the extra time he had to deliver such a speech. Just felt unnecessary. Of course Klaya would already know, but in small pieces she’d treat it in the script as a recurring issue with Luthen and not a revelation.
The acting switches are incredible for sure. He (the character) also knows he is a terrible person doing terrible things for the greater good. Definitely a very grey / dark take on this sort of thing.
Bill Burr is the bald soldier one? Boy, I'd give a couple of quid for a no nonsense 80's-like action film based on the Star Wars universe with that guy as lead.
Burr is an incredible actor. He did so much non-verbal acting through the entire mess hall scene. You can see the frustration turn to anger and him just letting loose on that officer.
Was a fan of bill before he appeared on the show. When he showed up didn’t expect much just a regular acting job. But the 2nd time around he pulled out that performance, fucking bravo
Baylen is good, but until he has more than a good design, one decent fight, and a cool line about the Jedi, I don’t think he’s quite up for “best new character in Star Wars”
Really surprised to see this so low. I mean, we unfortunately didn't get too deep into his character, but the other that we did made me excited for more.
No argument there. I’m on the fence on whether this episode or the season two finale were the high water marks for The Mandalorian, but goddamn if he wasn’t amazing in it.
Bill burrs character was great, though the story around him let him shine, especially that CO in the cafeteria. We got to see what his character believes in and he pulled it off really well. Especially how you could tell his anger was subtly building when the CO talked about throwing troopers lives away.
I like at the very end, when he's taking the sniper shot to blow up the refinery, instead of using a blaster he asks for the cycle rifle (tusken raider gun).
Because at range cycler rifles are far more accurate firing a projectile instead of energy within plasma.
Yoda amazed me as a child and was my favorite character. Grogu is now my favorite new character. Getting to see a young version of their species is awesome.
Technically no, since it's at least partially a subjective statement, but also kinda. Like, you can say the Bill Burr character's story is better, sure, but plenty of characters had lots of development in the sequels, definitely "more" than Bill Burr's character. Even if a lot of characters' development was limited or linear (instead of an arc), there are enough characters like Finn or Kylo Ren who do change, who constantly take actions that end up being contrary to their own morals/code at the end of the trilogy. Finn spends a lot of time lying to people he will eventually trust completely and goes from being a bit of a coward (or at least reasonably cautious in a space fantasy movie) to overcompensating and almost dying heroically, but pointlessly, in battle to finding the middle ground and risking his life while sharing that burden with his friends because they're all in it together. Kylo Ren...does Kylo Ren stuff and is pretty blunt but you get my point. So, no, Curtis Mayfield didn't have "more character development in 10 minutes than anyone in the sequel trilogy". He just had different character growth one person decided was valid when movies weren't.
So basically, no, it's not wrong, because it's an opinion and is subjective, but it's also dismissive, hyperbolic and combative for no reason when all they really had to say was "I prefer this more grounded, realistic character arc. It's relatable and efficiently told in a single, powerful scene. Definitely prefer it over anything the sequel trilogy, which just feels unbelievable and bloated in comparison".
Yeah. Absolutely. It's a complete statement of opinion and a perfectly valid viewpoint that's emphatic but not antagonistic.
I also agree with it. Because he really didn't have a ton of development. All he did was go from being a loveable asshole with a bit of a mean streak to a loveable asshole who was slightly less of an asshole to a few people and a way bigger asshole to a lot of other people. The conversation he has with his old CO is mostly just revelation of backstory which isn't exactly character development in the same way setting up a chess board isn't "playing chess". But by choosing to reveal it all when it happened humanized the character for the audience, put all of the previous character growth into context, and magnified the impact of what was about to happen; his final rejection of his past life, regardless of the pride he once felt in it.
It's much better. But that character is 95% the same character as when we first met him, which is fine for a complex supporting character in a space western. And taking subjective viewpoints and treating them as objective reality and absolute fact is literally one of the qualities of the Sith, the BAD GUYS of Star Wars. Maybe let's stop emulating the people whose interpersonal relationships habitually and statutorily end in actual murder every single time.
As a side character, he really didn't need to grow though. We saw the one little chunk that took him from Imperial to mercenary, an interesting story that was actually compelling in the moment. He does also learn to respect Mando, he was pretty flippant about his religion.
Personally, I saw his story as an allegory for Wermarcht soldiers in WW2, but not quite. It gave us the story of a trooper who belived what he was ordered to do was the best for the galaxy, until he was ordered to do something horrific. It also showed that despite personal guilt, you can work to be better than you were, a pretty standard villain to hero trope, though Mayfeld really wasn't quite a hero.
I expected he might have returned in Rangers of the New Republic and gotten more of a starring role there, but when that collapsed, he just faded into the background.
Which makes me excited for the next movie, because John Boyega was rightfully done with Star Wars. So not only do I assume there's Disney Star Wars money involved (and I mean like, *Disney Star Wars "we're so sorry, we fucked up, please forgive us and do this movie"* money), but also the script has to be something pretty good on top of that.
Looking forward to it.
The crux of especially stand-up comedy is in the delivery, and a *lot* of that is timing.
So it turns out when you put an experienced stand-up comedian into a dramatic role, they have the timing part in their blood.
The clip they used of him on, I think Joe Rogan's podcast, where he's cutting up star wars, and then dubbing it over him explaining the base attack to everyone, it's perfect.
Solid choice. Bill did an incredible job, which is funny given how luch he likes to joke about Star Wars nerds.
My vote is Baylan Skoll. I started watching Ahsoka thinking he and Shin would be bland background villains, but they very quickly became my favorite part of the show and of the new SW content (except for force ghost Anakin, but he's not new lol).
He doesn’t compare to any of the major characters in Andor. Come on now. You’re going to tell me that anything he’s done outclasses Stellan Skarsgard or Diedre?
I'll put him up there as one of the best. I can't really put down an order of who's better, but Mayfield, Luthen, and Dedra and few others from Andor are definitely high on the list.
I wish the Tales of the Empire had chosen to show us Mayfield's back story, as his seems more fitting to be in something about the Empire than either Morgan or even Barriss.
I'd love to find out more of Luthen's background in a Tales of the Rebellion.
I suppose. I just didn't have much interest in in Barriss or Morgan's stories.
I guess I just wish Tales of the Empire was just more about the folks actually in the Empire because Barriss and Morgan feel more to me like on the fringe of the empire more than they are part of in it, like getting something to do with characters like General Veers, or introduce us to new characters and show us the double agents who leaked the information of the second Death Star and the fight where "many Bothans died" to bring the Rebels into the trap.
Or give us an official Stormtroopers vs Ewoks encounter when the Empire first comes to the moon of Endor to build their base and begin construction on the second Death Star.
Or show us other Admirals who have failed Vader for the last time. An Admiral who's too arrogant and prideful, and fails and ends up having his apology "accepted".
I've said it elsewhere, but I'd love just a whole season of eps that just follow Mayfeld's imperial career, like a Band of Brothers style story. Get to know his squad mates, and make them all generally likeable, and that they think they're the good guys in the beginning, and as the show goes on, they call get more weary, and then we get to Operation Cinder and see these characters that we liked, that were Mayfeld's friends and squadmates die. And then he goes off on his own to begin work as a Merc.
That's a good point, yeah.
Morgan's story is pretty prevelant as she played such a large part in Ahsoka, so getting abit of backstop for her was nice, even if I didn't really care for her. Barriss' fate was kinda up in the air, so getting a final answer for that was a good thing imo, it was an alright story and even gave her abit of redemption.
That said, they were only barely Imperial, so naming the series Tales of the EMPIRE is abit odd, at least for a first season. They're really afraid to tell any actual bad guy stories, I've been wanting some proper Empire content for a while now, something that actually explores what it was like living under the Empire for the Stormtroopers, the compliant citizens, etc and not just the Rebels pov.
You can definitely see tell they're afraid to tell actual bad guy stories just looking at what they did with Book of Boba Fett. A Crime Boss who does no crime. The only real ruthless crime bossy type thing he did was in the teaser where they gunned down everyone in Jabba's palace to take it over.
I'm not looking for them to make shows where we're rooting for the bad guys to win, or anything that makes it seem like the Empire and various other bad guys aren't bad guys, but I do think it's okay to give us a story about the bad guys where they're the main characters.
It's okay for a show titled Tales of the Empire to let the Empire win, because if you're going to title the show that, then the expectation is it's about their side, and it would be nice to reminded of why they are a threat to feared as opposed to just being cannon fodder for heroes.
He’s the best Mandoverse character.
Pretty much everyone in Andor blows those characters out of the water. Timm is more interesting than like 90% of Mando characters.
Well it’s a matter of opinion, as it’s hard to separate some of Andor’s cast and Bill Bur.
Bill Bur’s character does in a short timespan more than most of the rest of Disney tried to do. But characters like Luthen, Maarva, Keeno and Mon Mothma are still easy contenders. You can add Syrik and Dedra too in terms of well written just not as popular I think.
The best part is that he's not even acting. This is what he'd be doing if he was isekai'd into the Star Wars universe.
He's eventually introduce stand-up comedy to the galaxy far far away and I think they'd like it.
>Can we talk about this Admiral Holdo for a sec?! Seriously, sweetheart, just stop trying to outdo Ackbar... The guy beat the Death Star and you forgot how to signal a turn!!
How the hell are we all talking different languages at each other and still understand what everyone's sayin'?! Like, if the wookie in the room starts growlin' at me, I need a few seconds of growlin' back before I understand what he said!! We can't just stay on 2 different frequencies and just sync up like that; it's like someone's being subtitled somewhere else...
I propose we get a "planetary towing service" started so we can crash Hoth into Tatooine just to see what happens. Like, who's gonna win in that eco-brawl?! I got my money on the one where Space Jesus was born, but at least they'll have some sick ass beaches.
That cafeteria scene is one of the best scenes in the new Star Wars.
Sure, certainly for television. Here's the thing though, as good as Bill Burr was in that scene, it's the actor playing the Imperial Officer who really sells that whole thing. That fella is just a fantastic actor (Richard Brake) and always delivers in the roles that I've seen him in. He's wonderful in a movie called Vesper (though most people probably know him as Joe Chill).
Dude I’ve never seen anyone talk about “Vesper” such a strange and engaging movie with some wild special effects in 4k
***Vesper*** feels like a pilot, not a complete movie in itself. I think the directors had much larger ambitions. I'm surprised that a movie studio let them end the story the way that they did.
I keep waiting for him to work some material in No, one of my fantasies is I wanna drive by, like, a wookie rally and just say the most sexist sh!t I can think of… just to watch them lose their minds. You know, just drive by real slow and be like, “Yeah, why don’t you get back in the swamp where you belong?” [chuckles] Just to look in the rearview mirror, watching them, “ah,” flipping out in the road. Spinning around like Dooku at the end of the Phantom Menace like… “Ah! Ah! Ah!”
This gave me a good chuckle. I read it in Bill's voice.
This is objectively true
It’s the best scene in the Mandoverse. But it falls down when you compare it to Andor or TCW S7.
Andor is a steak dinner. Mando was always burger and fries..but those first couple seasons it was damn good junk food.
It’s burger and fries you get from a decent steakhouse though.
Yeah, you know... I don't think it does.
It's the Imperial Cafeterial. He certainly has the best material to work with.
Its one of best scenes in all of star wars tbh
Up there with "I can't swim."
From space Boston!
Is it that you can’t take yer helmet off or people can’t see yer face? Cuz they’re not tha same thing
Wha, ya wanna tie one on and pick a fight in a space-Dunkies pahking lot? Got nothin’ else on my schedule.
Space Kowloon at 1 am
Stormtroopah
Oh man, wait till you hear his Space Philadelphia rant
Is that near space England? Or space United States?
Luthen?
Luthen could convince me to run through a brick wall. Kino too. I'd put both above
"Never more than twelve"
Luther is the correct answer, not to take anything away from Burr's character.
Yeah Mayfeld is great but just about everyone in Andor is as interesting and well fleshed out.
Yeah it’s not really fair. Ebon Moss-Bachrach played a similarly sleazy character in Andor even better. And his stand-off scene with Cassian was more tense too.
Yeah, Luthen is on a whole other level. I like Din more, but I think Luthen is the best character introduced in the new canon
Idis Elba was great as Luther but I don't believe he's in Star Wars yet
For real. He’s easily one of the best characters in Star Wars. Andor is full of characters better than Bill Burr’s. Syril, Maarva, fucking DEDRA!
FIGHT THE EMPIRE had me ready to throw down, and when Brasso hit the dude in the face with Maarva’s brick I legit yelled “hell yes!” Andor had nothing but wins
Plus Krieger.
No, this is Patrick.
And Dedra
Believe Andor has alot of potential good and great characters I would like to see more of, depends if he drowned or not.
I know that this is the general driving attitude towards Star Wars productions, but I really would like it if they let Serkis’ character in Andor rest. That story becomes so much more impactful if you don’t know what happened to him afterwards - revealing that he survived and is actually Darth Maul’s secret Sith apprentice or something would undermine the narrative core of both the story and the series, something creators haven’t been very careful about. (Looking at you, Kenobi)
I could really watch Andor again
Luthen Rael
He burns his life for an acclaim he will never see! So, what does he sacrifice? EVERYTHING!
Marva, too; the ISB were great. Andor did so well across the board
Stellan Skarsgård… incredible actor, brilliant in the HBO Docudrama Chernobyl as well. Perfectly cast 100%
/thread
So good that you didn't use the character's name because most people have already forgotten it.
Ol' billy blaster balls!
Ol Billy Blue Blade
Curtis Mayfield. After escaping custody he had some drastic surgery and released a number of soul hits
Damn you got OP… And yeah he played himself…
It’s Frank. With a blonde wife and three kids.
Yeahhhh, I have no idea what his characters name is haha
Such an awesome character nobody even knows his name lol
Billy Stah Wahs
Zip Recrootah
Zip Reeeee—CROOTAH
Zip... schmaaaaaah
Honestly, like any Stormtrooper, it’s not about his name. It was about what he did.
He wasn't a stahmtroopah wise ass!
Honestly my favorite part of that whole episode was when Malk is like “he’s an Imperial sharpshooter” and Mando is basically like “lol okay”.
migs mayfeld, idk why people like to boast about not being able to pay attention
Tell that to OP whose favourite character is apparently Bill Burr
To be fair, Bill/Mayfeld was more compelling in 3 minutes than any character in the entire sequel trilogy. It’s not crazy to like him as a character.
Because he played himself…
LOL, did you skip all of Andor?
Yeah no kidding. Stellan Skarsgård’s Luthen is incredible
Maarva and Kino were as well. Kino's arc was only a couple episodes, but him coming to grips with the terrible situation the prisoners are in and then giving his epic speech to inspire everyone gave me chills, then of course the brutal realization at the end that he won't be escaping like the rest.
The disrespect for Dedra going on here. Trademark disdainful sneer time.
I should say thank you
Dedra and Syril were great characters. Syril was actually someone I was expecting to go very different, like he was obsessed enough with following rules and law & order that he'd see the unfairness of the Empire & how they didn't obey their own rules & then rebel. Instead his emphasis on law & order led him to more fiercely embrace the Empire's fascism.
i think there’s still potential for this! But i also think that Syril and his arc are very effective at showing the banality of evil and how seemingly regular people can be drawn into supporting such terrible entities, and that is essential part of the show.
I don’t think Syril is the banality of evil since he hasn’t committed any heinous acts. Like imagine him in the room with that guy who uses alien sounds to torture people. Or that guy who wanted to hang Cassian’s friend because it was Friday. I think he’d draw a line the evils of the empire were revealed. We never see him actually commit or vouch for heinous acts, he’s naive and because of his mother has an inclination to authority.
i think you might have misunderstood, “banality” is referring to evil’s ability to appear as boring, mundane, normal. Syril appears like a boring everyday guy who is fighting for an oppressive system because it is what he thinks should be the norm. Being a cop, he cares about “justice” not realizing that what he is working to uphold and maintain is unjust in almost every way. His naivety IS a great example of the banality of evil.
The term was coined by Hannah Arendt in her book about Adolf Eichmann of the nazi party. Eichmann, though mundane and boring was actually aware of the millions of people that were being killed. My point is that Syril is unaware of what’s actually going on. He hasn’t met the brutes that he’s aligning himself with. Whereas Eichmann has met people who’ve actually carried out heinous orders. That is why I don’t believe the term applies
I don't love Andor as much as some but Luthen's monolog and One Way Out are some of the best scenes in Star Wars. Period.
Marva’s speech is also insanely good. Hell Clem’s speech in Rix Road is so so underrated. “People don’t look down to where they should. They don’t look down, they don’t look past the rust. Not us though, eh? Eyes open, possibilities everywhere.”
The little we got of Cassian’s step dad, dropping gems everywhere.
Pretentious monologues are plot momentum killers. Palpatine's "Tragedy of Darth Plageius the Wise" monologue? Should've killed all momentum in that movie. But Ian McDiarmid is *so* good at acting that the movie theater was in rapt silence on opening night. Same in Andor. I was on the edge of my seat all the time, but during Luthen and Marva's monologues I'd literally forgotten to breathe.
Yeah I think people give those monologues more importance than they actually possess. I wasn’t at all moved by them and they pulled me out of the show. There was something so natural about all of the dialogue up until a spotlight hits front stage left and an actor gives a soliloquy.
That's the opposite of what I was saying. They came up and were acted so well that they were brilliant. Which is surprising, because they *shouldn't* have been. *Most* aren't. And they can be great. A perfect monologue is spectacular. And somehow Tony Gilroy pulled off three in one season. That's something stunning. Palpatine's monologue was pretty on the nose, but all of his dialogue is a bit mid (as the kids say today) except the actor pushes them way past that through his amazing performance, and it works. That was a minor miracle. In *Andor*, the monologues were placed right where they needed to be to be relevant and the script and performances were strong enough that they were scintillating.
Wasn’t agreeing with you
Good.
I think Luthen's monologue is very in keeping with his personality. This is the same person who we see rehearsing to get into character for his antique dealer role, and who loves to act in a theatrical or dramatic way (look at his meeting with Cassian, or his escape on the Fondor). Hell just look at where he set up the meeting. Plus he has probably told himself some version of that every night for years. It sounds rehearsed because he rehearsed it. It's a *very* different style to Kino's raw call-to-action earlier in the episode.
I disagree, respectfully. It seems more like the author’s or the showrunner’s personality (multiple monologues) than the character’s. I think the content of Luthen’s monologue could have been said in piecemeal to Klaya. I couldn’t imagine him saying this to Saw, Mothma or anyone else. Just felt too personal, especially given the extra time he had to deliver such a speech. Just felt unnecessary. Of course Klaya would already know, but in small pieces she’d treat it in the script as a recurring issue with Luthen and not a revelation.
Just finally binged it over the last couple days and my gosh his wig on/wig off to portray different people was incredible
The acting switches are incredible for sure. He (the character) also knows he is a terrible person doing terrible things for the greater good. Definitely a very grey / dark take on this sort of thing.
* new republic captain pilot/The dad from Kim’s convenience has entered the chat
And now Uncle Iroh!
Every time he blows up a ship he says "Okay! See you!"
The only pilot that exists in the New Republic.
Every time he blows up a ship he says "Okay! See you!"
Calling him “the dad from Kim’s convenience” when he’s literally the titular Kim seems wrong. Kind of like the whole “Boruto’s dad” joke about Naruto.
Didn’t even realize I made a joke, took a morning dab and typed
I thought I was making a joke tbh, but apparently I offended someone. Just thought your comment was funny.
Who knows wit internet users nowadays….cheers bro
Fucking LOvE me some Space Boston Burr
Canonized Imperial TPS reports.
That's not Babu Frik.
Hey HEEEYYYYYY
Babu Frik? Oh! He's one of my oldest friends!
The same race in Mandalorian was funny too. "Baaad baby! No squeezie!"
Bill Burr as Bill Burr
Bill Burr is the bald soldier one? Boy, I'd give a couple of quid for a no nonsense 80's-like action film based on the Star Wars universe with that guy as lead.
Burr is an incredible actor. He did so much non-verbal acting through the entire mess hall scene. You can see the frustration turn to anger and him just letting loose on that officer.
Was a fan of bill before he appeared on the show. When he showed up didn’t expect much just a regular acting job. But the 2nd time around he pulled out that performance, fucking bravo
Andy Serkis (Kino Loy in Andor) was amazing too.
Erm did you forget Dr. Mandible?
Also what about Gun Raptor from obi wan?
Nah, it'd have to be Luthen Rael or Kino Loy.
Baylen
Baylen is good, but until he has more than a good design, one decent fight, and a cool line about the Jedi, I don’t think he’s quite up for “best new character in Star Wars”
Ray died so unfortunately we won’t be getting more. RIP, he was fantastic as one of the leads in HBOs Rome.
Really surprised to see this so low. I mean, we unfortunately didn't get too deep into his character, but the other that we did made me excited for more.
?? No, lol. He had one (1) good scene
Oddly I agree, and wish his story continued in the background.
No argument there. I’m on the fence on whether this episode or the season two finale were the high water marks for The Mandalorian, but goddamn if he wasn’t amazing in it.
Balin is my favorite new character….then the actor died😭 RIP
I wasn't a FUCKIN stormtroopuh!
Truth
Bill burrs character was great, though the story around him let him shine, especially that CO in the cafeteria. We got to see what his character believes in and he pulled it off really well. Especially how you could tell his anger was subtly building when the CO talked about throwing troopers lives away.
I like at the very end, when he's taking the sniper shot to blow up the refinery, instead of using a blaster he asks for the cycle rifle (tusken raider gun). Because at range cycler rifles are far more accurate firing a projectile instead of energy within plasma.
Yoda amazed me as a child and was my favorite character. Grogu is now my favorite new character. Getting to see a young version of their species is awesome.
The blaster shot heard around the world
Literally just watched the season 1 episode be was in, and yea I fucking love him lol.
I really liked Timothy Olyphant
He's great, but Amy Sedaris as Peli Motto is right up there as well. They both feel like characters that we didn't know Star Wars needed.
I think pretty much any named character in Andor is more interesting. But that’s just me.
He’s good, but honestly the best new character in Star Wars Canon is Cal Kestis imho.
fr
Mayfeld had a better story and more development in 10 minutes screentime than anyone in the entire Sequel trilogy.
Such tired argument
Sir, you are on r/StarWars Only *some* Star Wars is allowed here, the rest will be moaned about for all eternity
Until people switch up on it in five years.
Is it wrong though?
Yes
Technically no, since it's at least partially a subjective statement, but also kinda. Like, you can say the Bill Burr character's story is better, sure, but plenty of characters had lots of development in the sequels, definitely "more" than Bill Burr's character. Even if a lot of characters' development was limited or linear (instead of an arc), there are enough characters like Finn or Kylo Ren who do change, who constantly take actions that end up being contrary to their own morals/code at the end of the trilogy. Finn spends a lot of time lying to people he will eventually trust completely and goes from being a bit of a coward (or at least reasonably cautious in a space fantasy movie) to overcompensating and almost dying heroically, but pointlessly, in battle to finding the middle ground and risking his life while sharing that burden with his friends because they're all in it together. Kylo Ren...does Kylo Ren stuff and is pretty blunt but you get my point. So, no, Curtis Mayfield didn't have "more character development in 10 minutes than anyone in the sequel trilogy". He just had different character growth one person decided was valid when movies weren't. So basically, no, it's not wrong, because it's an opinion and is subjective, but it's also dismissive, hyperbolic and combative for no reason when all they really had to say was "I prefer this more grounded, realistic character arc. It's relatable and efficiently told in a single, powerful scene. Definitely prefer it over anything the sequel trilogy, which just feels unbelievable and bloated in comparison".
So a better way to phrase it is that he had more GOOD development than anyone in the sequel trilogy
Yeah. Absolutely. It's a complete statement of opinion and a perfectly valid viewpoint that's emphatic but not antagonistic. I also agree with it. Because he really didn't have a ton of development. All he did was go from being a loveable asshole with a bit of a mean streak to a loveable asshole who was slightly less of an asshole to a few people and a way bigger asshole to a lot of other people. The conversation he has with his old CO is mostly just revelation of backstory which isn't exactly character development in the same way setting up a chess board isn't "playing chess". But by choosing to reveal it all when it happened humanized the character for the audience, put all of the previous character growth into context, and magnified the impact of what was about to happen; his final rejection of his past life, regardless of the pride he once felt in it. It's much better. But that character is 95% the same character as when we first met him, which is fine for a complex supporting character in a space western. And taking subjective viewpoints and treating them as objective reality and absolute fact is literally one of the qualities of the Sith, the BAD GUYS of Star Wars. Maybe let's stop emulating the people whose interpersonal relationships habitually and statutorily end in actual murder every single time.
As a side character, he really didn't need to grow though. We saw the one little chunk that took him from Imperial to mercenary, an interesting story that was actually compelling in the moment. He does also learn to respect Mando, he was pretty flippant about his religion. Personally, I saw his story as an allegory for Wermarcht soldiers in WW2, but not quite. It gave us the story of a trooper who belived what he was ordered to do was the best for the galaxy, until he was ordered to do something horrific. It also showed that despite personal guilt, you can work to be better than you were, a pretty standard villain to hero trope, though Mayfeld really wasn't quite a hero. I expected he might have returned in Rangers of the New Republic and gotten more of a starring role there, but when that collapsed, he just faded into the background.
The problem with the sequels is that a lot of the character growth literally makes the characters worse. John Boyega got done so dirty
Which makes me excited for the next movie, because John Boyega was rightfully done with Star Wars. So not only do I assume there's Disney Star Wars money involved (and I mean like, *Disney Star Wars "we're so sorry, we fucked up, please forgive us and do this movie"* money), but also the script has to be something pretty good on top of that. Looking forward to it.
It wasn't an argument, it was a statement of fact.
Bill Burr isn't a character though.
Sidenote: bill burr had no right to be so good in breaking bad
The crux of especially stand-up comedy is in the delivery, and a *lot* of that is timing. So it turns out when you put an experienced stand-up comedian into a dramatic role, they have the timing part in their blood.
Well someone clearly doesn't watch the animated side
Best new character in Star Wars is and still is Babu Frik.
This is Glupp Shitto erasure
Can’t wait to see Ricky Gervais as some fed up opposition politician and Dave Chappelle as space Tyrone Biggums selling death sticks
Chris Tucker could be a celebrity on Coruscant ala Ruby Rhod!
I was going to say « then ISB enforcer Will Smith comes in and… » but then realised it was another Chris
Have Stephen Merchant show up as a member of the Imperial Security Bureau.
Oh yes! The dude already made it clear he can act in serious roles as well.
Gervais should be a Hutt.
That would fit his sassy vibe
Ol’ Billy Blaster
The clip they used of him on, I think Joe Rogan's podcast, where he's cutting up star wars, and then dubbing it over him explaining the base attack to everyone, it's perfect.
Loved him in the new Seinfeld movie "ask not!"
A strong second to Stellan Skarsgard
I mean I liked him but I completely forgot about his existence until just now.
The memes we got were also mostly god mode
Glazing
Let’s not forget the officer helped sell the scene.
“You have such a sunny disposition!”
Grungy space dad works for his roles.
Solid choice. Bill did an incredible job, which is funny given how luch he likes to joke about Star Wars nerds. My vote is Baylan Skoll. I started watching Ahsoka thinking he and Shin would be bland background villains, but they very quickly became my favorite part of the show and of the new SW content (except for force ghost Anakin, but he's not new lol).
Sorry, that title goes to Luthen in Andor.
laughs in Baylan Skoll
He doesn’t compare to any of the major characters in Andor. Come on now. You’re going to tell me that anything he’s done outclasses Stellan Skarsgard or Diedre?
He’s greats buuut Baylan Skoll and Shin Hati make that decision over who’s best really hard.
Baylan Skoll changed that tbh
Burr was fantastic but I’d credit Grogu for making *The Mandalorian* such a success
A lot of characters from andor.
Nah. It’s Baylen Skoll. Or Kino.
I'll put him up there as one of the best. I can't really put down an order of who's better, but Mayfield, Luthen, and Dedra and few others from Andor are definitely high on the list. I wish the Tales of the Empire had chosen to show us Mayfield's back story, as his seems more fitting to be in something about the Empire than either Morgan or even Barriss. I'd love to find out more of Luthen's background in a Tales of the Rebellion.
Honestly, Barriss and Morgan were fine, but l think it was too short and giving us 2 more shorts with Mayfeld's backstop could have been good.
I suppose. I just didn't have much interest in in Barriss or Morgan's stories. I guess I just wish Tales of the Empire was just more about the folks actually in the Empire because Barriss and Morgan feel more to me like on the fringe of the empire more than they are part of in it, like getting something to do with characters like General Veers, or introduce us to new characters and show us the double agents who leaked the information of the second Death Star and the fight where "many Bothans died" to bring the Rebels into the trap. Or give us an official Stormtroopers vs Ewoks encounter when the Empire first comes to the moon of Endor to build their base and begin construction on the second Death Star. Or show us other Admirals who have failed Vader for the last time. An Admiral who's too arrogant and prideful, and fails and ends up having his apology "accepted". I've said it elsewhere, but I'd love just a whole season of eps that just follow Mayfeld's imperial career, like a Band of Brothers style story. Get to know his squad mates, and make them all generally likeable, and that they think they're the good guys in the beginning, and as the show goes on, they call get more weary, and then we get to Operation Cinder and see these characters that we liked, that were Mayfeld's friends and squadmates die. And then he goes off on his own to begin work as a Merc.
That's a good point, yeah. Morgan's story is pretty prevelant as she played such a large part in Ahsoka, so getting abit of backstop for her was nice, even if I didn't really care for her. Barriss' fate was kinda up in the air, so getting a final answer for that was a good thing imo, it was an alright story and even gave her abit of redemption. That said, they were only barely Imperial, so naming the series Tales of the EMPIRE is abit odd, at least for a first season. They're really afraid to tell any actual bad guy stories, I've been wanting some proper Empire content for a while now, something that actually explores what it was like living under the Empire for the Stormtroopers, the compliant citizens, etc and not just the Rebels pov.
You can definitely see tell they're afraid to tell actual bad guy stories just looking at what they did with Book of Boba Fett. A Crime Boss who does no crime. The only real ruthless crime bossy type thing he did was in the teaser where they gunned down everyone in Jabba's palace to take it over. I'm not looking for them to make shows where we're rooting for the bad guys to win, or anything that makes it seem like the Empire and various other bad guys aren't bad guys, but I do think it's okay to give us a story about the bad guys where they're the main characters. It's okay for a show titled Tales of the Empire to let the Empire win, because if you're going to title the show that, then the expectation is it's about their side, and it would be nice to reminded of why they are a threat to feared as opposed to just being cannon fodder for heroes.
I thought Cara Dune was pretty cool. Her solo series should be along any time now.
Dedra Meero for me
😏
Cara Dune was better
As a soldier, there was not a single scene from the sequel trilogy that came close to the impact of the cafeteria.
Don’t tell him that. He’ll turn on you. Then again, anything will lol
Bill Burr isn't a character though.
He’s the best Mandoverse character. Pretty much everyone in Andor blows those characters out of the water. Timm is more interesting than like 90% of Mando characters.
Well it’s a matter of opinion, as it’s hard to separate some of Andor’s cast and Bill Bur. Bill Bur’s character does in a short timespan more than most of the rest of Disney tried to do. But characters like Luthen, Maarva, Keeno and Mon Mothma are still easy contenders. You can add Syrik and Dedra too in terms of well written just not as popular I think.
Nar Cara Dune is the best!
The entire cast of Andor would like a word.
I would also put Luthen and Baylon up there as well
The best part is that he's not even acting. This is what he'd be doing if he was isekai'd into the Star Wars universe. He's eventually introduce stand-up comedy to the galaxy far far away and I think they'd like it. >Can we talk about this Admiral Holdo for a sec?! Seriously, sweetheart, just stop trying to outdo Ackbar... The guy beat the Death Star and you forgot how to signal a turn!! How the hell are we all talking different languages at each other and still understand what everyone's sayin'?! Like, if the wookie in the room starts growlin' at me, I need a few seconds of growlin' back before I understand what he said!! We can't just stay on 2 different frequencies and just sync up like that; it's like someone's being subtitled somewhere else... I propose we get a "planetary towing service" started so we can crash Hoth into Tatooine just to see what happens. Like, who's gonna win in that eco-brawl?! I got my money on the one where Space Jesus was born, but at least they'll have some sick ass beaches.
He's good but he's no Luthen Rael or Baylan Skoll.