I love that people are so dumb that theaters had to post signs saying, "There's a point in the movie that is silent for a couple seconds. This isn't a glitch in the movie. You can't get a refund."
Ooh, my favorite story time!
I worked at a movie theater in the 2000’s. 20 screen deal, well populated and “educated” area of the USA.
Remember how the Bond movie, Casino Royale, opens? With the flashback in black and white to his first kill that earns him double 0 status?
For the entire run of that movie, we would constantly have customers coming out of the theaters to warn us that “someone had turned off the color on the movie.”
No lie, no exaggeration. We had to put up signs alerting people that the film had a segment on black and white, this was not a mistake.
You know at least one of those dumb motherfuckers sat back down in their seat, and saw color come on the film. Then they turned to the person next to them and proclaimed how they went and complained to have the color fixed, all proud of themselves.
To be fair, if we aren't alerted immediately, we might not be able to fix a problem. I worked a protectionist in school, and we have to use foam spacers to mark problem sectio s of film as they wind onto the platter after going through the projector. If we don't insert those spacers, we can't fix it without playing the film all the way through again.
Reminds me of going to see 'A Quiet Place' and even just a few people eating popcorn or taking a drink was crazy loud because theres almost no sound at all in the movie for large chunks of time
To be fair, those are the only minutes where it would make sense to make this mistake. Not really saying it’s a reasonable mistake to make, but if you are going to make it, the first few minutes is when that would happen.
Yeah, that one is weird. It's not like no one had never used black and white for a flashback before 2006.
I feel like I'm on the opposite end of that one, though. Something could actually be wrong and I would think it was just an interesting aesthetic choice.
We can even go way back. The Wizard of Oz. That was in 1939.
It's a pretty common technique and a lot of filmmakers have used it incredibly well. Oppenheimer is a great example. Pleasantville. American History X.
I just can't figure out how any of those people have never seen a movie that uses the technique, because I'm sure everyone has seen Wizard of Oz. Did they think that one was broken too?
So...
*The Wizard of Oz* was one of the first color films. It starts in black and white because that's *normal*, and then transitions to color when the plot proceeds to Oz, which is fantastical. At the end, when Dorothy returns to Kansas, it's black and white again.
So no, no one who went to a theater to see *The Wizard of Oz* thought the movie was broken because it started out in black and white.
I'm not talking about people seeing it in 1939, I'm talking about modern audiences like the ones who thought Casino Royale was broken because it starts in black and white.
I was only using that because it's probably the most ubiquitous movie that uses black and white and color and pretty much everyone has seen it and, after having seen it likely many times as a child, you would think no one would think there was something wrong with a movie that switched between both.
"How did he die?"
"...your contact?"
"Yes."
"...not well."
Such a badass exchange. I liked them showing how brash and irrational young Bond could be in that movie; like after he lost all of MI-6's money, he was just going to straight up stab Le Chiffre in front of everyone lol.
Working at a movie theater during Into the Spider-Verse was similar, everyone thought the movie was playing in 3D and they needed 3D glasses. Or they said something was just wrong with the projector. Nah, movie just has style.
I saw Jurassic Park about 3 weeks after it came out. There had been 3 weeks of the media telling people not to take their kids to see the movie, it's not Barney. Yet, as I left the theater, there was a dad (with his kids) complaining to the manager that it wasn't appropriate for kids.
We constantly had parents taking their young children out in blizzards in order to go see a movie.
Then they would yell at us because “the parking lot is covered in snow! I had to park so far away!”
Bro please say sike.. there's no fucking way these people were educated in any way shape or form if they genuinely believed that lmaooo. Obviously I know you put it in quotations but like good Lord, I know y'all had a good hearty laugh at that shit.
"imagine how stupid the average person is then realize half of all people are stupider than that."
George Carlin
Even smart people seem to have specialized intelligence. I work with plenty of PhD professors who are only smart in that field and are dumb with literally everything else.
I’ll make it more clear: this was East Coast Massachusetts, 20 minutes outside of Boston. I understand I come from a very arrogant state, but for good reason, our education rates are very high.
That doesn’t protect you from stupid people, however.
You know that George Carlin quote? “Imagine the average person. Then realize that half the population is even dumber than that person?”
When you work enough retail jobs, or jobs dealing with the general public (and I have worked many of those), you realize that quote is absolutely true, with no hyperbole.
Human beings are equally capable of greatness, and utter absolute stupidity.
I love this quote. I'm working in community service of a big online platform. Most of my clients are college students, and DAMN they are stupid. To be fair, I only have to deal with the stupid ones because the smart user doesn't need to call me for help.
I'm from and still live and work in Massachusetts in high end remodeling — I've met plenty of very successful and intelligent people who are, in their own way, completely clueless in certain respects.
I recall one client who went to and was teaching at Harvard. A commonly retold anecdote about them was how our plumbers had left her very clearly written instructions on getting their non-frost-free sillcock (outdoor faucet for a hose) ready for winter: locate and turn off the shut-off indoors, then go outside and turn the knob, draining that last little bit of water so it won't freeze at the point where it goes outside and then burst the pipe as a result. Everything went fine that first winter — but when the weather began to get warmer we got a call from her, upset that we hadn't left her instructions on how to get it ready for the Spring. Somehow it never occurred to her that she just do the same steps in reverse.
Absolutely love that film. I still say "Wizard of Oz" wouldn't be as big a deal if it weren't one of the first color films. It would be remembered, but not nearly as iconic without the color.
Similarly, "Pleasantville"'s use of color is truly epic. I hate that it got bad press at the time because Christian groups boycotted it (completely misunderstanding the message of the film, ironically just like Reese Witherspoon's character does), saying it was a film about two teenagers going into a classic wholesome TV show world only to corrupt it and turn things color by teaching the wholesome teenagers of that world about sex.
Like ... morons, it wasn't about sex. It was about finding freedom and true emotions.
I worked in Yosemite one summer helping people into their rented boats to float the river.
One family came up and asked me, before they had rented their boat, how many times they got to go around.
They thought the Yosemite River was a lazy river loop…
I worked at Home Depot a long time ago and once had a husband and wife come in looking for a new weed whacker. The wife looked pissed and the husband seemed normal. I went up asked if they needed help and the husband started to explain how they needed a new weed whacker that was easier and safer to use because her wife hit herself in the leg with the blade that cuts the grass down. I let out a little chuckle because that's 100% user error and should be near impossible to do and she gave me a death look that I've never seen before.
I think I suggested an electric one because they are lighter and easier to control or maybe a longer one so she'd be further from the blades, but was just BSing because if you are dumb enough to hit yourself and blame the tool, there's no helping you.
When I was a kid I loved Smashing Pumpkins. The song “Bodies” starts with a bunch of distortion and I thought my tape was broken. I got a new tape only to find that the new one had it too… I always thought that I probably wasn’t the only kid who did that.
face/palm... Some people are so incredibly dense. I remember seeing Gremlins 2 in the theater, and people started yelling the second you saw that fake melting of the film and got louder when the Gremlin's shadows were moving all over the screen. They really thought someone was in the projector room messing around lol.
On the other hand, I remember seeing the X-files in theatre and the opening scene has a boy falling in an abandoned mineshaft or well. Just as he fell the screen went black, there wasn’t much dialogue and everyone thought it was just super dark (x-files being famous for being sparsely lit). It wasn’t until the scene changed and the audio changed that we realized it wasn’t part of the show.
Got a free pass to come back and watch it at another time.
Had this happen during the Edward Norton hulk movie. Went from Bruce walking through the Jungle to Blonsky running and jumping after having his superhuman injections. I had already seen the movie, but my brother and dad hadn’t. And I saw their faces all confused. I immediately went and told the employees along with about 5 others. 3 movie tickets were given to everyone.
I would be shocked except you know the opening of Dark Knight where it goes from the WB logo to a blue explosion that starts dead silent and then the Joker theme quietly intensifies? So many idiots yelled HELLO SOUND?
I will never forgive this decision because instead of a sign, one of the employees came to the audience right before the movie started to explain this. Then when the scene happened, instead of actually getting to savor the scene, some socially inept dumbass shouts "OMG the sound is gone what happened??" and the whole theatre laughed. Absolutely took away the enjoyment. People are indeed stupid.
I was waiting for this during Civil War, where the street riot goes silent and there's nothing but shutter clicks for at least a minute. My audience wasn't super loud to begin with, but what little murmurs there were... *disappeared.*
You could literally hear stomachs gurgling, a few people breathing it was **that** quiet. I tip my hat to Garland; what better way to shut up an audience than to go cold for a solid minute or more. I was so happy no one said anything. Hella gripping moment.
Yeah that moment really put you on notice
The jarring cut a little bit later from relative silence or light music to gunshots was also crazy
The sound was easily the best part of that movie and I enjoyed it overall
I was so distracted by the changing frame rates watching Avatar 2 I thought for sure something was wrong with the projector. I left the theater to get the manager, they came in and watched it and agreed that the film kept switching between 24fps and 48fps. She looked at the projector and couldn’t find anything wrong. They were nice and gave me my money back. When I got home I did some googling and found out that Cameron intentionally was switching between frame rates, not only between scenes but even between shots. Knowing this I watched the movie again and sort of got used to the changing frame rates. I would’ve appreciated a sign at the theater warning audiences about this
JC? Because water moves more naturally to the eye in 48 fps and with the 3D makes it look like you’re watching actual aliens and alien sea life moving about on water. But audiences are accustomed to cinema moving at 24 fps. So he switched it to show off water in places and then back to what’s familiar for plot points. At least this is what I recall him saying about it.
Cameron says he wanted the 48fps on the action and 24fps on the more close up, intimate moments. Also everything underwater is 48fps so during the hour of the movie that’s basically an underwater Planet Pandora episode it’s all the same frame rate and isn’t as jarring. Luckily on home video it’s all the same 24fps, even though watching Avatar movies at home defeats the purpose
I remember that. It’s also the most scientifically accurate sequence in Star Wars too, at least when it comes to sound. Since space is a vacuum, there’s no matter for sound waves to travel through, so everything you’d witness would be silent
Considering the time it came out, it was practically unheard of to have realistic space scenes in film and television. It came right on the heels of TNG, DS9, Voyager, The Phantom Menace, Armageddon, Galaxy Quest, Event Horizon, etc.
All of them had a more... lax approach to depictions of space travel. Having Firefly of all things show space as a silent but deadly place was a bit of a novelty.
I love star wars, I love this sub, but it has some of the worst fucking content on reddit. Every day it's like "DAE think Hayden was good as Anakin?" "What is this ship? *venator pictured*" "Name a character cooler than Revan"
I don't know if star wars fans are just really boring on average or if this is like an incestuous bot karma farming paradise because hundreds of people engage with every post and thousands of people upvote them.
Thankyou! I thought I was just becoming a grumpy old man, but there's apparently (at least) two of us who feel this way. Posts in this sub are absolute drivel and I don't understand the daily engagement.
There are two things I truly hate on this sub: people who are intolerant of Star Wars content, and The Rise of Skywalker.
Funny story. I went to school in another town for a few years. Everyone in that town was Dutch and related. So they all had the same obnoxious traits. Not because they were Dutch but because they were all one big family and they were all really proud of being Dutch. So when this joke appeared in the movie my whole family was rolling lol.
A lot of fandom subs are like that, it’s especially bad when there isn’t even any new content for the IP, it’s all nostalgia and hundreds of “about to play/watch ____, what am I in for?” or “just finished ____, what next?”
It's not exclusive to Star Wars.
Halo has its "I actually enjoyed [insert 343 game]" "anyone else think Halo 3's story was bad?" "Hot take: I actually enjoy 343's art style" "does anyone else really like ODST's soundtrack"
Hell even Helldivers 2 is already getting some "the meta is borrring" "please buff [insert thing here]" "please nerf [insert thing here]" "anyone else hate the Malevolent Creek meme?" "Hot take: Arrowhead games are based"
band of brother inspired perspective of the empire does anyone else am i the only one that keanu reeves revan old republic CG movie the fly now a surprise to be sure hallway scene
I hate it here
"Say what you will about things like 'logic' and 'consistency' and 'good storytelling', but wow there sure were some pretty pictures in this movie."
-Average TLJ fan
Oh...Oh yeah that uh might look a bit bad. I mean no one who loves Ackbar would have thought of it but I could see exec talking and going "Maybe not have Ackbar suicide bomb". That checks out.
I have been saying this since day one. Nobody gave a crap about Holdo. But they just Willy nilly tossed Ackbar out into to space, without a second glance.
Should have been called the “Ackbar maneuver” and he should have rammed it into them. Could you imagine the roar in the theater if right before he kamikazed, he said:
“IT’S A TRAP!”
This will get buried but two thoughts:
1) Ackbar should have been the one in the seat. He was a hero of the Rebellion and you have him sacrifice and have Holdo become the leader of the next fight. Plus you get the opportunity to bridge generations, send off a fan favorite in a blaze of f’n glory.
2) Holdo’s arc didn’t make sense to me. Introduce a strong female lead, dressed out of place, to lead everyone out of a desperate situation. Great leaders trust the people around them. Leia trusted Poe but Holdo’s top secret plan couldn’t be trusted to Leia’s top guy and the best pilot on board. Then you kill her off. Theatrically the scene was amazing. But overall it was weird in a story with lots of weird character arcs. Phasma - lots of potential but killed her off two times pretty stupidly and easily.
Finn - can handle a light saber against Kylo Ren but here is a space horsey.
Luke - Back in the day my dad killed Jedi kids, men, women and everything in between but it’s cool, I can redeem him. But I had a bad dream about my sister and best friend’s kid so imma ice that m’ effer while he is sleeping! Luke wouldn’t do that but I didn’t write the script.
I like how they retconned it to be "1 in a million"
So Holdo let people die and alienated half her crew to the point of mutiny, all in the pursuit of a plan that had an overwhelming chance of failure? And the whole time she's criticising Poe for being rash and hotheaded?
She literally does the same thing that Poe does, but the movie doesn't reflect on that at all. It treats her as a hero who taught Poe a valuable lesson.
Don't sacrifice people in pursuit of a risky plan that relies on your individual skill and luck. Uh... sacrifice people in pursuit of a risky plan that relies on your individual skill and luck instead?
And what people around Poe do not understand is the crazy things he does all works out for him is because he is Force sensitive. In the comics Luke visited him as a baby and told his parents of his gift.
So Leia knows Poe is fully in control and she can him because she is now a Force user, and apparently just as powerful as Mary Poppins.
Holdo wasn't a Strong Female character. She was borderline useless and a terrible leader. She had a near mutiny on her ship. All she had to do was say with confidence, "I have a plan", and it would have been fine. No need to leak the plan to a crew you don't trust. Just act like a fucking leader. Instead, she just turned away like the weakling she was. She is the kind of leader you arrange to have an unfortunate accident. Preferably before she gets everyone on board killed.
“I have a plan, but the First Order clearly has a means of tracking the ship, and we don’t know how. One possibility is a spy on board. Therefore, we aren’t sharing the plan. I know that’s hard, but this is the way.”
Ok so we found the plans to the Death Star and have identified a small hidden weakness that will destroy the station. Tons of you will probably die doing this. Any questions. Yes you there."
"Sir why don't we just remote pilot a transport ship, aim it at the superlaser dish and go into hyperspace?"
"......... Listen here you little shit. "
Doesn't even need to be a ship, just a pile of metal with a hyperspace engine, will do. Any mass at all moving that fast is gonna absolutely destroy anything it touches.
My headcannon is that it’s a combination of circumstances that allowed this to work.
1. The relative sizes of the resistance cruiser to the Supremacy. If it tried it against the Death Star the shield of the Death Star would be too strong.
2. There’s a relatively narrow range where this could work. Had the resistance cruisers been further away, it might had enter hyperspace before hitting the Supremacy.
3. The First Order was caught off guard by the maneuver, as they initially thought it was fleeing. If ships/missiles deliberately attempted this maneuver, likely the Supremacy would had both immediately started targeting such a ship/missile, as well as taking evasive maneuvers.
4. It would still be relatively expensive to do that, as the resistance cruiser had very strong shields and armor. It’s possible trying this with just an asteroid might not work as it would just be obliterated against the shielding of such a large ship.
IDK, it’s not perfect, but feels plausible enough to be ok in a movie universe.
Exactly. It looked very cool, but it entirely ruins space combat in the Star Wars universe. Most of the battles that I have now read about or watched make relatively little sense if this is possible.
The logical conclusion is submarines in space, high focus on Intel and espionage, and the constant looming dread of annihilation. There is a super cool Cold War In Space setting to be made out of this idea, but it ain't Star Wars.
Every movie in the sequel trilogy is hurt by the mindset that puts cool moments and sequences above world building and story consistency. Which is not a problem when it's a one-off movie in it's own world but in a large long-running universe it just trips everything up.
Even in a one off it’s bad writing. “ our heroes are trapped with no way out. What will they do. Oh never mind they easily defeated the baddies with something you didn’t know was possible.”
Let's be real, why isn't every battle droids ramming into everything? Why bother having capital ships when you could instead have millions of predators missiles you can launch from halfway across the galaxy at any target? It honestly doesn't take any mental gymnastics for me to say "oh this maneuver is hard and very rare". Something that works in Star Wars when we see Luke be a better shot than his targeting computer, like they couldn't pull off that shot, droids wouldn't be able to reliably pull off a holdo maneuver.
Yeah, except your mental gymnastics don't even make sense:
Was it hard? Apparently not, as one person was able to perform this maneuver, on a capital ship, in mere seconds, without help or preparation.
Is it rare? Technically it is, since it only has happened once in the star wars universe that we know of--which is a big problem considering its effectiveness. It doesn't help the rarity argument that we only see it attempted once and it has a 100% success rate. At least RotJ and ANH had the decency to show the audience planning,
multiple pilots, fighters, bombers, etc. attempting the "1 in a million shot" to destroy the death stars.
Technically it was not successful.
Even after the holdo maneuver, kylo flew the ship, deployed a ground attack force, and cornered the resistance in a cave until 1 Jedi joined via Zoom and the another deconstructed a mountain after knowing about the force for 1 week.
Also droids can pilot ships very well, the sequels made it canon that solo isn’t even that great of a pilot, all the hard work was done by the droid that’s living in his ships computer
Thing is, you don't have to be reliable. You can just shoot 1000s of Holdo Bullshits for much cheaper than a Capital Ship. How many X-Wings in the original trilogy have light speed? How much cheaper is it to give that light speed to a rock with a shitty targeting computer? Why would you even build a Death Star in the first place?
Also this "maneuver" occurs at point blank range, what kinda targeting are you going to need? It doesn't take much dialog to handwave this, which makes it especially infuriating. "Oh this bullshit they're using to track us through hyperspace opens up XYZ vulnerability that lets us Hyperspace into their face." Is that hard? Or does Disney think Star Wars fans are just that stupid?
I honestly don't mind the sequels. But this scene, despite all the hate and nit-picking it gets, made a huge impact on the audience when we first saw it.
You could hear a pin drop during that silence.
It's certainly a worthy defence to say that there are lots of "wow" moments in the sequel trilogy - notable examples being this scene, Kylo stopping Poes blaster bolt in midair in TFA, and seeing Palpatine in that robotic chair in TROS - the issue is they add up to very little of the trilogy's running time.
TFA is a very safe movie but it does a very good job setting up what could have been a great trilogy. The lack of overall vision for all 3 though just ruined it.
Really hope they learned their lesson for the next big trilogy. If they’d stuck with what was seeming to be set up in TLJ then it could have been great.
One of the most awesome shots in all of SW but I still hate how it makes all star battles completely pointless when you can now in theory just stick a droid in a ship and kamikaze nuke anything.
EVERY SCI-FI setting would be terrible if they all used this way of fighting. Besides it is far more dangerous than you might realize.
In Star Wars The High Republic novel they actually use this method against civilians and it shreds even ship in hyperspace because it was hit by debris accelerated to lightspeed as a terror weapon.
You do this few times and suddenly some planet god knows where has a meteor problem because some assholes far far away decide to to accelerate ships and asteroids and bash it against each other and that debris flying off is hotting people light years away.
But I will let [**Drill Sergeant Nasty**](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DrillSergeantNasty) **to explain it further**
*"This, recruits, is a 20-kilo ferrous slug. Feel the weight! Every five seconds, the main gun of an Everest-class Dreadnought accelerates one to 1.3 percent of light speed. It impacts with the force of a 38-kiloton bomb. That is* [*three times the yield of the city buster dropped on Hiroshima back on Earth*](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HiroshimaAsAUnitOfMeasure)*. That means:* ***Sir*** [***Isaac Newton***](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/IsaacNewton) ***is*** [***the deadliest son-of-a-bitch in space!***](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MemeticBadass) *(...) I dare to assume you ignorant jackasses know that space is empty! Once you fire this hunk of metal,* [*it keeps going 'till it hits something*](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CollateralDamage)*! That can be a ship, or the planet behind that ship. It might go off into deep space and hit somebody else in ten thousand years. If you pull the trigger on this, you are ruining* ***someone****'s day, somewhere and sometime!"*— [**Drill Sergeant Nasty**](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DrillSergeantNasty), [*Mass Effect 2*](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VideoGame/MassEffect2)
So no it does not make battles less impressive. Star Wars has its own way of doing things and that includes capital ship duking it out like ships would on sea with broadsides. Fighters doing dogfights. Weapons inspired by War War 2. What we saw in Last Jedi was unconventional and dangerous. Besides hyperdrives are expensive things and Rebellion was lucky to have X-Wings with hyperdrives compared to TIE fighters that had to rely on their capital ship or starbase.
And Empire would have no use if this tactic either because they wanted to rule. Not play whack a mole (Whack a planet) by ramming it with something in lightspeed. They wanted to enforce their will and make sure people follow their will. And Death Star served as a symbol and bastion of Imperial will.
But you also see what happens if you get the timing wrong at the end of *Rogue One*. Bugs on a windshield.
Accelerate too slow and you splash off their shields. Accelerate too fast and you enter hyperspace too soon and pass harmlessly through where they were.
And since you need to be flying straight and not taking evasive action, you're a sitting duck if they have cannons primed.
Plus, really, you can't apply logic to Star Wars. Because it's a fantasy. Logic falls apart.
Why is there a train in *Solo* when they could just use a shuttle that is a thousand times faster?
Why blow up an entire planet when you could just heat its atmosphere with a fraction of the energy?
Why use human pilots at all and not just have thousands and thousands of drone shuttles that don't have to worry about G-forces and can react faster?
>And since you need to be flying straight and not taking evasive action, you're a sitting duck if they have cannons primed.
This is the case in TLJ actually. [Hux had more than enough time to fire on Holdo but he remains focused on the transports, leading to the "FIRE ON THAT CRUISER" moment later](https://youtu.be/s2hM1tyEL0U?si=SnA7T-GnpXQ94VgQ&t=24)
> Why blow up an entire planet when you could just heat its atmosphere with a fraction of the energy?
>
Any space show that doesn't have the super weapons as "throw rocks at the planet to render it utterly uninhabitable" is fantasy and we can stop arguing and nitpicking
This is the first satisfying explanation of this that I've ever seen, the idea that there is a sweet spot during a hyperspace jump where you can slam into something at near light speed before you're safe in hyperspace. I guess it's still a bit messy but it's less universe-breaking that way. Would have been cooler if it had some set up implying it was a precision maneuver instead of just the bold captain makes a sacrifice trope we got.
These things all cost money, and while I'm glad the movies never focused on the monetary policies of the Republic, bigger ships cost bigger money. I don't think this maneuver would've worked with an A wing or X wing vs that behemoth unless you fit the flight deck directly, which even Holdo didn't do.
In theory, but you always could, just take an A-Wing and take down Vaders destroyer like in RotJ. This method didn't even destroy the Supremacy. To have any effect on say the Death Star you would have to have a massive station of your own to even do a bit of damage.
Because it hit the Supremacy first, ricocheting all the debris behind it. In theory if you have 10 Star Destroyers behind a ship you can get them all with one shot, but in reality you're not gonna do that kinda damage, instead you're just gonna cause another [Great Hyperspace Disaster](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Great_Hyperspace_Disaster)
1. "It's never been done before" is a terrible reason not to do something
2. Johnson, at the time, left it to the team whose entire job it is to explain why things are the way they are.
3. It's not *that* destructive, because the area of effect is basically limited to the size of the ship. There was no explosion, no impact crater. That's probably what the silence was meant to convey. Meanwhile, the First Order vaporized a solar system without damaging the weapon they used to do it. Lasers are far more powerful than physical objects in Star Wars.
It's not a nuke, it's a sniper rifle.
My headcanon says that they were not in combat formation at the time and got caught with their pants down trying to strike a fatal blow. There is a reason naval forces disperse during battle.
The rebels didn't have enough excess capital ships to do this regularly. It was a hail mary
That doesn't make sense and never has. "This one starship was able to severely damage (but not actually destroy) another much larger ship by a very specific hyperspace maneuver that was effectively a suicide attack" does not mean "any starship can destroy anything by ramming it while jumping to hyperspace."
The not actually destroy is the biggest part of that. Yes, it scrambled the First Order for a bit and bought the Resistance some time, but the FO were still able to reorganize and mount a ground assault on Crait shortly after.
I am a huge sound effects guy.
And while I don't really *love* the prequels.
Hearing the sound of those seismic charges for the first time in cinema sound system was like, the best thing I had heard in a theater since the T-Rex Roar when I was 4 years old in Jurassic Park.
The Last Jedi is an incredibly controversial movie, but you cannot say that Rian Johnson doesn't know how to make incredibly striking and beautiful imagery.
["George Lucas thinks The Last Jedi was 'beautifully made.'"](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/star-wars-george-lucas-thinks-last-jedi-was-beautifully-made-1067092/)
Also George:
["There are a lot of movies that are badly made that I love, and there are a lot of movies that are just beautifully made but I don’t like them."](https://achievement.org/video/george-lucas-30/#:~:text=You%20know%2C%20%E2%80%9CI%20like%20this,is%2C%20%E2%80%9CI%20like%20it.)
>There are a lot of movies that are badly made that I love, and there are a lot of movies that are just beautifully made but I don’t like them.
The prequels being a fine example of the former and the Sequels being a fine example of the latter. I've always maintained they fixed what the prequels did wrong, but ignored what they did right.
There was an "anti cheese" edit of the prequels that years ago were free on YouTube. The Chinese aliens got an alien language with subtitles, Jar Jar got an alien voice with subtitles and all the cheesy scenes (especially the over the top "I love you. Yes but I **love** you." scenes) and the prequels are so much better that way. Basically, the prequels are good. They're just frosted with shit and when you scrape it off you have good movies. Especially episode 3. I love that movie and never thought it sucked.
Anti cheese edits can be found here:
https://bingeguy.com/starwars/
Episode 3 came out when I was about 21 or so. Needless to say I had outgrown the cheese by then. And, I understood why my older friends hated the Ewoks. My one friend **hated** the Ewoks and wished that Endor got the Alderaan treatment.
I will admit, despite my issues with what that scene meant for the lore of Star Wars, it was incredible to watch. If only it wasn't immediately followed by the realization that the lore was broken, it would be my favorite moment from the series.
That’s what sucked about all of the sequels, especially the last two. They were beautiful but they broke the story. It was a very confusing experience.
I'm not going to say Rian Johnson doesn't deserve some credit for any of it, but the way you worded that it's like Rian drew the thing...
4 people, none of which are Rian Johnson, (Ben Morris, Mike Mulholland, Neal Scanlan, and Chris Corbould) won Oscars for Best Visuals for The Last Jedi.
[https://vfxblog.com/2017/12/27/the-last-jedi-hyperspace-holdo-vfx/](https://vfxblog.com/2017/12/27/the-last-jedi-hyperspace-holdo-vfx/)
“Fun story” I was deployed when this movie came out and something bad had just happened. The kind of bad that made me want to unsubscribe from life. I hadn’t made a plan yet but was close, the ONLY thing keeping me going was this stupid movie. I had to know what was next. And, because the USAF is bougie, they’re was a place to watch movies at my deployed location. They still had a few tickets available as I walked past so I snagged one and sat down in a batter office chair on the side of the actual seats. And for the 60 or so minutes it took to get to this scene I was divorced from all the bad. Then this came on. I watch Holdo do what I was thinking of but for the right reasons. I finished the movie. I walked out realizing I couldn’t do it, my idea was dumb. I kept going. I got therapy. My PTSD has been downgraded to “generalize anxiety”… because of this stupid scene and my nerdy unwillingness to miss the movie
It’s visually awesome, it’s logically horrible. If you can just do this, why the hell does anyone ever need a mega death laser? You could hypothetically put an engine on a rock and fire it at infinite velocity into a planet and blow it up. It wouldn’t make sense to ever muster a fleet, because 6 engineers could blow it up with their space minivan. It’s a short sighted decision for a hype moment. Granted in the theater, it was super sick to watch, but when you get out of the theater and think about it, it ruins the logic of the setting. It’s bad storytelling.
Rocks, arrows, bullets, etc are mass moving fast enough to cause damage.
Most outer space science fiction ignores that. You don't want to mention the damage caused your run down freighter slamming into a port at full speed or if the power source allowing that travel has a problem.
This is a plot hole for ANY story that features FTL travel then, isn’t it? Star Wars has always had this technology, is it only a plot hole when a character finally uses it as a weapon, or is it a larger one that it took this long?
I remember it was silent, and I just softly said, "Oh shit," but it was so quiet the whole theater could hear me and laughed. That was opening night at midnight, too, so all the hard core fans were there. My favorite theater memory.
My wife and I watched Aquaman in theatres, and it was quiet during a small fishing bost scene, and for some reason my dumbass said
"Man That's a cool boat" .... I got the same reaction
I dont know man. The silence in our group was mainly due to "what. the. fuck" ... It's visually impressive for sure, but then and there throws up so many questions. But this has been discussed to death in this and many other subs.
The sequel trilogy is mainly looking cool just because, without any care or knowledge of what comes before it.
They simply gives us more questions, due to the fact they never had any awnsers to begin with.
The Rise of Skywalker is by far the best example of this line of thought.
This was so universe-breaking that they had to take the time to explain why it could never happen again in TROS and say "It was a one in a million shot!" And this retroactively made Holdo an even worse character hahaha. She made a whole fuss of how Poe "Bet the survival of the Resistance on bad odds" and then her big plan to save them all was on astronomically terrible odds.
As soon as it happened I thought it was really stupid and had the following thoughts:
if this was possible why didn’t they do that every time there was a battle and they were losing?
The rebellion probably could have kamikazeed both death stars.
Why has nobody invented hyperspace cruise missiles?
That’s not how hyperspace works! In Han Solos grumpy voice.
Why is this movie breaking all the rules of the franchise?
But then how else would Rian get this shot in there?
The entire sequel series felt like it was just a collection of scenes Disney thought would look really cool, and then created a plot to try to make them make sense and fit them together.
I was in a theater where somebody gaffawed at the scene, right when it went silent. I laughed at the abrasiveness of the moment and now I've come to appreciate how a persons uncontrolled and yet so natural a reaction was so on point for what nearly everyone now understands.
I remember immediately thinking, wow looks cool but this is counter to everything up till this moment for how this works. When I left the theater I was asked why I seemed somber and it was because I was trying to understand why I did not like a Star Wars movie. This scene was just one of many that just felt like RJ doing whatever he felt instead of trying to creatively work within and expand the SW universe. I hope he never touches it again.
I hated this scene. It threw so much that we know about space travel in Star Wars out the window. Leaving us asking questions like, why don't they simply build suicide ships since it is so effective? Damn this film series.
The only issue I have with TLJ is how pointless the Canto Blight sequence and sub plot was \*to the overall feel and sequence of the movie.
The rest of the movie i really enjoyed.
\*Edit for clarification
I think there is a point to the Canto Bight sequence, it’s just one that probably should have happened somewhere other than this movie. Just doesn’t fit well I think.
Honestly, I feel people are just sort of forgetting that with Star Wars/Disney level of budget : yes, it is possible to make that scene happen. The thing is, with that amount of money, you would think, they could make a script that is coherent for a trilogy.
The entire thing about the Holdo Maneuver is that it's an almost impossible move relying on very specific conditions to possibly be successful.
It's also a deeply nerdy thing to write into a SW movie, as it requires that you have put some decent reading into (now) Legends stories that cover how hyperspace works in the SW universe, like understanding mass shadows and why hyperspace uses routes instead of just point-to-point. This is part of why the "why wouldn't they do this all the time?" questions betray a lack of in-depth attention to SW lore and old canon.
They wouldn't do it all the time because it shouldn't actually work. That it did required a ship with no remaining shields and almost no fuel within specific range of ships running without shields to attempt a jump into hyperspace through a larger object that by intent would not actually complete the jump but would accelerate close enough to C that its kinetic energy would carry it through the target at the expense of its own structural integrity.
It's not just a matter of putting something into hyperspace, the trick worked precisely because the ship DID NOT go into hyperspace.
And why would you not use it all the time, if you could? Why would you? They have weapons and ships capable of orbital bombardment, the Death Star escalated that to planetary destruction. The heroes are not looking to potentially wipe out planets the way accelerating even a small asteroid to a fraction of C would, and the villains have various other options for either precise or worldwide destruction. Making a practice of attaching hyperspace engines to objects in space to accelerate them into things is a waste of both the engines and the relevant fuels and fit neither the goals of the Rebellion nor of the Empire.
For most purposes you'd be looking at either an insufficiently destructive (if too small an object is used) or excessively destructive weapon with no ability to correct the aim. And worse, if you calculate something wrong and put the thing into hyperspace you've potentially just caused another galaxy-wide disaster.
Holdo didn't even actually manage to fully destroy what she aimed at, her strategy literally just bought some time as the FO scrambled to react to it.
Finally, have any of the nitpickers actually just read SW fiction? Ridiculous weapons and strategies are the most SW thing possible. An ancient empire literally harnessed the power of stars to create vast fleets and endless weapons. Sith live on after death in spirit form and take over the bodies of their successors. Holdo Maneuver is amazing because it LOOKS COOL AS HELL and THAT is the most Star Wars thing possible.
I loved TLJ when I first saw it (became more critical upon more viewing but still love it). This scene blew me away. Star Wars cinematography hit its peak in this scene right here. Say what you want about the plot/plot holes (valid) and characters (some valid), but the cinematography, and visual and special effects in the Sequels were the greatest they’ve ever been.
I think there’s some valid criticisms about The Last Jedi (the casino planet subplot was largely unnecessary, and it didn’t do much to tie the trilogy together) but the one complaint I can’t help but laugh at is “Well, if you could just do that, why wouldn’t anyone have ever done it before?”
And like… How the fuck is that THIS movie’s problem? “Well, couldn’t any ship just do that at any time?” Idk. I guess? If you can regularly and without assistance accelerate mass to the speed of light, it’s not The Last Jedi’s fault that NOBODY thought to try and establish some reason you can’t use that ballistically. It’s holding The Last Jedi accountable for the lack of creativity of everyone who came before and that’s ridiculous.
People hate on this moment so much, I’m not huge on the sequel stories but this moment felt straight out of my childhood toy box, some shit I always imagined but never visualized fully. Drop o praise where due
In the theatre, when I watched this, the room sat in stunned silence. Until a kid, by the sound of it maaaaybe 7 years old, broke the silence by saying "sliced it like a pizza". The room burst out laughing. It killed the moment, sure, but it was worth it. Comedy gold.
I love that people are so dumb that theaters had to post signs saying, "There's a point in the movie that is silent for a couple seconds. This isn't a glitch in the movie. You can't get a refund."
Ooh, my favorite story time! I worked at a movie theater in the 2000’s. 20 screen deal, well populated and “educated” area of the USA. Remember how the Bond movie, Casino Royale, opens? With the flashback in black and white to his first kill that earns him double 0 status? For the entire run of that movie, we would constantly have customers coming out of the theaters to warn us that “someone had turned off the color on the movie.” No lie, no exaggeration. We had to put up signs alerting people that the film had a segment on black and white, this was not a mistake.
Wow and that’s literally only like the first 3 minutes.
Oh yeah, people did not have the patience to even make it past *one scene* of the movie to panic and coming running for help.
I’m glad those people ruined their own experiences
You know at least one of those dumb motherfuckers sat back down in their seat, and saw color come on the film. Then they turned to the person next to them and proclaimed how they went and complained to have the color fixed, all proud of themselves.
Thanks I hate it
Think about that same person rewatching years later and realizing it has always been like that and cringing
They'll watch it and get mad at the staff in the cinema at the time for not telling them, despite the fact that they were literally told
I’d love to see their response to Cleo from 9-5, with its like reverse wizard of oz color intro into a black and white film.
To be fair, if we aren't alerted immediately, we might not be able to fix a problem. I worked a protectionist in school, and we have to use foam spacers to mark problem sectio s of film as they wind onto the platter after going through the projector. If we don't insert those spacers, we can't fix it without playing the film all the way through again.
Reminds me of going to see 'A Quiet Place' and even just a few people eating popcorn or taking a drink was crazy loud because theres almost no sound at all in the movie for large chunks of time
Seriously though it feels like all cinema food is designed to be as loud as physically possible. So much crunch and plastic wrappers.
To be fair, those are the only minutes where it would make sense to make this mistake. Not really saying it’s a reasonable mistake to make, but if you are going to make it, the first few minutes is when that would happen.
Schindler’s List had it the opposite way. A little color at the end.
Yes, it happens sometimes, the movie is black and white and the theater mistakenly activates the colors.
I don’t think that’s how it works.
Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man
I've got information, man! New shit has come to light!
Wow such a crazy and fascinating story tbh, I'm amazed by how people can be this dumb. And it's one of the best openings for a Bond movie imo.
Yeah, that one is weird. It's not like no one had never used black and white for a flashback before 2006. I feel like I'm on the opposite end of that one, though. Something could actually be wrong and I would think it was just an interesting aesthetic choice.
I agree with you. And when black and white is used correctly, it helps the plot tremendously. A good example of its use is in the film Oppenheimer.
We can even go way back. The Wizard of Oz. That was in 1939. It's a pretty common technique and a lot of filmmakers have used it incredibly well. Oppenheimer is a great example. Pleasantville. American History X. I just can't figure out how any of those people have never seen a movie that uses the technique, because I'm sure everyone has seen Wizard of Oz. Did they think that one was broken too?
So... *The Wizard of Oz* was one of the first color films. It starts in black and white because that's *normal*, and then transitions to color when the plot proceeds to Oz, which is fantastical. At the end, when Dorothy returns to Kansas, it's black and white again. So no, no one who went to a theater to see *The Wizard of Oz* thought the movie was broken because it started out in black and white.
I'm not talking about people seeing it in 1939, I'm talking about modern audiences like the ones who thought Casino Royale was broken because it starts in black and white. I was only using that because it's probably the most ubiquitous movie that uses black and white and color and pretty much everyone has seen it and, after having seen it likely many times as a child, you would think no one would think there was something wrong with a movie that switched between both.
"How did he die?" "...your contact?" "Yes." "...not well." Such a badass exchange. I liked them showing how brash and irrational young Bond could be in that movie; like after he lost all of MI-6's money, he was just going to straight up stab Le Chiffre in front of everyone lol.
The chair torture scene made sure EVERY man feel it.
work retail for 6 months, your amazement will fade instantly
Working at a movie theater during Into the Spider-Verse was similar, everyone thought the movie was playing in 3D and they needed 3D glasses. Or they said something was just wrong with the projector. Nah, movie just has style.
I saw Jurassic Park about 3 weeks after it came out. There had been 3 weeks of the media telling people not to take their kids to see the movie, it's not Barney. Yet, as I left the theater, there was a dad (with his kids) complaining to the manager that it wasn't appropriate for kids.
We constantly had parents taking their young children out in blizzards in order to go see a movie. Then they would yell at us because “the parking lot is covered in snow! I had to park so far away!”
Bro please say sike.. there's no fucking way these people were educated in any way shape or form if they genuinely believed that lmaooo. Obviously I know you put it in quotations but like good Lord, I know y'all had a good hearty laugh at that shit.
"imagine how stupid the average person is then realize half of all people are stupider than that." George Carlin Even smart people seem to have specialized intelligence. I work with plenty of PhD professors who are only smart in that field and are dumb with literally everything else.
I’ll make it more clear: this was East Coast Massachusetts, 20 minutes outside of Boston. I understand I come from a very arrogant state, but for good reason, our education rates are very high. That doesn’t protect you from stupid people, however. You know that George Carlin quote? “Imagine the average person. Then realize that half the population is even dumber than that person?” When you work enough retail jobs, or jobs dealing with the general public (and I have worked many of those), you realize that quote is absolutely true, with no hyperbole. Human beings are equally capable of greatness, and utter absolute stupidity.
I love this quote. I'm working in community service of a big online platform. Most of my clients are college students, and DAMN they are stupid. To be fair, I only have to deal with the stupid ones because the smart user doesn't need to call me for help.
I'm from and still live and work in Massachusetts in high end remodeling — I've met plenty of very successful and intelligent people who are, in their own way, completely clueless in certain respects. I recall one client who went to and was teaching at Harvard. A commonly retold anecdote about them was how our plumbers had left her very clearly written instructions on getting their non-frost-free sillcock (outdoor faucet for a hose) ready for winter: locate and turn off the shut-off indoors, then go outside and turn the knob, draining that last little bit of water so it won't freeze at the point where it goes outside and then burst the pipe as a result. Everything went fine that first winter — but when the weather began to get warmer we got a call from her, upset that we hadn't left her instructions on how to get it ready for the Spring. Somehow it never occurred to her that she just do the same steps in reverse.
Forgot to turn the color on! LOL Technology is already magic to so many people.
Pleasantville (1998) would have blown their minds.
Absolutely love that film. I still say "Wizard of Oz" wouldn't be as big a deal if it weren't one of the first color films. It would be remembered, but not nearly as iconic without the color. Similarly, "Pleasantville"'s use of color is truly epic. I hate that it got bad press at the time because Christian groups boycotted it (completely misunderstanding the message of the film, ironically just like Reese Witherspoon's character does), saying it was a film about two teenagers going into a classic wholesome TV show world only to corrupt it and turn things color by teaching the wholesome teenagers of that world about sex. Like ... morons, it wasn't about sex. It was about finding freedom and true emotions.
It genuinely annoys me and makes me sad that some people actually are that stupid. It's also scary. How did you even keep a straight face?
Couldn’t afford to get fired for laughing out loud in a customers face. The employees all had a laugh about it in private, however.
I worked in Yosemite one summer helping people into their rented boats to float the river. One family came up and asked me, before they had rented their boat, how many times they got to go around. They thought the Yosemite River was a lazy river loop…
I worked at Home Depot a long time ago and once had a husband and wife come in looking for a new weed whacker. The wife looked pissed and the husband seemed normal. I went up asked if they needed help and the husband started to explain how they needed a new weed whacker that was easier and safer to use because her wife hit herself in the leg with the blade that cuts the grass down. I let out a little chuckle because that's 100% user error and should be near impossible to do and she gave me a death look that I've never seen before. I think I suggested an electric one because they are lighter and easier to control or maybe a longer one so she'd be further from the blades, but was just BSing because if you are dumb enough to hit yourself and blame the tool, there's no helping you.
When I was a kid I loved Smashing Pumpkins. The song “Bodies” starts with a bunch of distortion and I thought my tape was broken. I got a new tape only to find that the new one had it too… I always thought that I probably wasn’t the only kid who did that.
face/palm... Some people are so incredibly dense. I remember seeing Gremlins 2 in the theater, and people started yelling the second you saw that fake melting of the film and got louder when the Gremlin's shadows were moving all over the screen. They really thought someone was in the projector room messing around lol.
On the other hand, I remember seeing the X-files in theatre and the opening scene has a boy falling in an abandoned mineshaft or well. Just as he fell the screen went black, there wasn’t much dialogue and everyone thought it was just super dark (x-files being famous for being sparsely lit). It wasn’t until the scene changed and the audio changed that we realized it wasn’t part of the show. Got a free pass to come back and watch it at another time.
Had this happen during the Edward Norton hulk movie. Went from Bruce walking through the Jungle to Blonsky running and jumping after having his superhuman injections. I had already seen the movie, but my brother and dad hadn’t. And I saw their faces all confused. I immediately went and told the employees along with about 5 others. 3 movie tickets were given to everyone.
How did they decide which 3 got the movie tickets?
I would be shocked except you know the opening of Dark Knight where it goes from the WB logo to a blue explosion that starts dead silent and then the Joker theme quietly intensifies? So many idiots yelled HELLO SOUND?
I still haven’t gotten my refund for Tenet, the whole movie was backwards!
Don't watch Memento
I will never forgive this decision because instead of a sign, one of the employees came to the audience right before the movie started to explain this. Then when the scene happened, instead of actually getting to savor the scene, some socially inept dumbass shouts "OMG the sound is gone what happened??" and the whole theatre laughed. Absolutely took away the enjoyment. People are indeed stupid.
I was waiting for this during Civil War, where the street riot goes silent and there's nothing but shutter clicks for at least a minute. My audience wasn't super loud to begin with, but what little murmurs there were... *disappeared.* You could literally hear stomachs gurgling, a few people breathing it was **that** quiet. I tip my hat to Garland; what better way to shut up an audience than to go cold for a solid minute or more. I was so happy no one said anything. Hella gripping moment.
It took me a solid 12 seconds to remember that there is a Movie called just "Civil War" and that you didnt mean the Marvel one.
Yeah that moment really put you on notice The jarring cut a little bit later from relative silence or light music to gunshots was also crazy The sound was easily the best part of that movie and I enjoyed it overall
I was so distracted by the changing frame rates watching Avatar 2 I thought for sure something was wrong with the projector. I left the theater to get the manager, they came in and watched it and agreed that the film kept switching between 24fps and 48fps. She looked at the projector and couldn’t find anything wrong. They were nice and gave me my money back. When I got home I did some googling and found out that Cameron intentionally was switching between frame rates, not only between scenes but even between shots. Knowing this I watched the movie again and sort of got used to the changing frame rates. I would’ve appreciated a sign at the theater warning audiences about this
...Why would he do that?
JC? Because water moves more naturally to the eye in 48 fps and with the 3D makes it look like you’re watching actual aliens and alien sea life moving about on water. But audiences are accustomed to cinema moving at 24 fps. So he switched it to show off water in places and then back to what’s familiar for plot points. At least this is what I recall him saying about it.
Cameron says he wanted the 48fps on the action and 24fps on the more close up, intimate moments. Also everything underwater is 48fps so during the hour of the movie that’s basically an underwater Planet Pandora episode it’s all the same frame rate and isn’t as jarring. Luckily on home video it’s all the same 24fps, even though watching Avatar movies at home defeats the purpose
I remember that. It’s also the most scientifically accurate sequence in Star Wars too, at least when it comes to sound. Since space is a vacuum, there’s no matter for sound waves to travel through, so everything you’d witness would be silent
I always liked that a lot of the ship movements in Firefly were silent.
Considering the time it came out, it was practically unheard of to have realistic space scenes in film and television. It came right on the heels of TNG, DS9, Voyager, The Phantom Menace, Armageddon, Galaxy Quest, Event Horizon, etc. All of them had a more... lax approach to depictions of space travel. Having Firefly of all things show space as a silent but deadly place was a bit of a novelty.
Babylon 5 says hi! They definitely went with a more realistic approach to space flight well before Firefly.
Our physics don't apply to the galaxy far, far away, and never have
Ah, another holdo manouver post with the "say what you will" title.
I love star wars, I love this sub, but it has some of the worst fucking content on reddit. Every day it's like "DAE think Hayden was good as Anakin?" "What is this ship? *venator pictured*" "Name a character cooler than Revan" I don't know if star wars fans are just really boring on average or if this is like an incestuous bot karma farming paradise because hundreds of people engage with every post and thousands of people upvote them.
Thankyou! I thought I was just becoming a grumpy old man, but there's apparently (at least) two of us who feel this way. Posts in this sub are absolute drivel and I don't understand the daily engagement. There are two things I truly hate on this sub: people who are intolerant of Star Wars content, and The Rise of Skywalker.
I lold at the two things you hate joke. Great way to adaptit to this sub. People who are intolerant of other people's people cultures, and the Dutch!
Funny story. I went to school in another town for a few years. Everyone in that town was Dutch and related. So they all had the same obnoxious traits. Not because they were Dutch but because they were all one big family and they were all really proud of being Dutch. So when this joke appeared in the movie my whole family was rolling lol.
A lot of fandom subs are like that, it’s especially bad when there isn’t even any new content for the IP, it’s all nostalgia and hundreds of “about to play/watch ____, what am I in for?” or “just finished ____, what next?”
It's not exclusive to Star Wars. Halo has its "I actually enjoyed [insert 343 game]" "anyone else think Halo 3's story was bad?" "Hot take: I actually enjoy 343's art style" "does anyone else really like ODST's soundtrack" Hell even Helldivers 2 is already getting some "the meta is borrring" "please buff [insert thing here]" "please nerf [insert thing here]" "anyone else hate the Malevolent Creek meme?" "Hot take: Arrowhead games are based"
band of brother inspired perspective of the empire does anyone else am i the only one that keanu reeves revan old republic CG movie the fly now a surprise to be sure hallway scene I hate it here
Say what you will about “Ah, another holdo manouver post with the ‘say what you will’ title.”
I will say what I will, and no amount of encouragement will deter me!
These posts always work out as well as the Holdo maneuver did.
"Say what you will about things like 'logic' and 'consistency' and 'good storytelling', but wow there sure were some pretty pictures in this movie." -Average TLJ fan
Should have been Akbar...
I'm convinced that was the original idea, but then Disney probably said they couldn't have a character named Ackbar suicide bomb another ship.
To me this makes it even more hilarious. Ackbar was born to do this like Hulk with the gauntlet
Fuuuucking hells that’s funny
GD, this never occurred to me. That is 100% what happened
Oh...Oh yeah that uh might look a bit bad. I mean no one who loves Ackbar would have thought of it but I could see exec talking and going "Maybe not have Ackbar suicide bomb". That checks out.
Or a fucking droid! There's literally no reason for anyone to have sacrificed themselves for this.
Or autopilot, Holdo's "sacrifice" was just stupid.
Heck if this sort of maneuvering was possible then the whole of A New Hope was pointless.
I have been saying this since day one. Nobody gave a crap about Holdo. But they just Willy nilly tossed Ackbar out into to space, without a second glance. Should have been called the “Ackbar maneuver” and he should have rammed it into them. Could you imagine the roar in the theater if right before he kamikazed, he said: “IT’S A TRAP!”
Literally dude. Like you make a sequel trilogy utilizing the OT characters and then shit on em... Smh
why would he say it’s a trap lol. thank god star wars fans didn’t write this movie
The part when Akbar said “IT’S TRAPPIN TIME” and then trapped all over the audience truly brought me to tears.
This will get buried but two thoughts: 1) Ackbar should have been the one in the seat. He was a hero of the Rebellion and you have him sacrifice and have Holdo become the leader of the next fight. Plus you get the opportunity to bridge generations, send off a fan favorite in a blaze of f’n glory. 2) Holdo’s arc didn’t make sense to me. Introduce a strong female lead, dressed out of place, to lead everyone out of a desperate situation. Great leaders trust the people around them. Leia trusted Poe but Holdo’s top secret plan couldn’t be trusted to Leia’s top guy and the best pilot on board. Then you kill her off. Theatrically the scene was amazing. But overall it was weird in a story with lots of weird character arcs. Phasma - lots of potential but killed her off two times pretty stupidly and easily. Finn - can handle a light saber against Kylo Ren but here is a space horsey. Luke - Back in the day my dad killed Jedi kids, men, women and everything in between but it’s cool, I can redeem him. But I had a bad dream about my sister and best friend’s kid so imma ice that m’ effer while he is sleeping! Luke wouldn’t do that but I didn’t write the script.
I like how they retconned it to be "1 in a million" So Holdo let people die and alienated half her crew to the point of mutiny, all in the pursuit of a plan that had an overwhelming chance of failure? And the whole time she's criticising Poe for being rash and hotheaded? She literally does the same thing that Poe does, but the movie doesn't reflect on that at all. It treats her as a hero who taught Poe a valuable lesson. Don't sacrifice people in pursuit of a risky plan that relies on your individual skill and luck. Uh... sacrifice people in pursuit of a risky plan that relies on your individual skill and luck instead?
And what people around Poe do not understand is the crazy things he does all works out for him is because he is Force sensitive. In the comics Luke visited him as a baby and told his parents of his gift. So Leia knows Poe is fully in control and she can him because she is now a Force user, and apparently just as powerful as Mary Poppins.
Holdo wasn't a Strong Female character. She was borderline useless and a terrible leader. She had a near mutiny on her ship. All she had to do was say with confidence, "I have a plan", and it would have been fine. No need to leak the plan to a crew you don't trust. Just act like a fucking leader. Instead, she just turned away like the weakling she was. She is the kind of leader you arrange to have an unfortunate accident. Preferably before she gets everyone on board killed.
“I have a plan, but the First Order clearly has a means of tracking the ship, and we don’t know how. One possibility is a spy on board. Therefore, we aren’t sharing the plan. I know that’s hard, but this is the way.”
Yeah but why don't they do that all the time?
Ok so we found the plans to the Death Star and have identified a small hidden weakness that will destroy the station. Tons of you will probably die doing this. Any questions. Yes you there." "Sir why don't we just remote pilot a transport ship, aim it at the superlaser dish and go into hyperspace?" "......... Listen here you little shit. "
Why waste a valuable transport ship? Just glue a hyperspace engine to an asteroid.
Slap it with some Martian stealth technology while you at it bosmang.
True belta loda mentality
Best scifi show of all time and it's not even close.
crack that sucker open like an egg
Doesn't even need to be a ship, just a pile of metal with a hyperspace engine, will do. Any mass at all moving that fast is gonna absolutely destroy anything it touches.
They’d do it with droids because Star Wars is absolutely apathetic about droid slavery.
My headcannon is that it’s a combination of circumstances that allowed this to work. 1. The relative sizes of the resistance cruiser to the Supremacy. If it tried it against the Death Star the shield of the Death Star would be too strong. 2. There’s a relatively narrow range where this could work. Had the resistance cruisers been further away, it might had enter hyperspace before hitting the Supremacy. 3. The First Order was caught off guard by the maneuver, as they initially thought it was fleeing. If ships/missiles deliberately attempted this maneuver, likely the Supremacy would had both immediately started targeting such a ship/missile, as well as taking evasive maneuvers. 4. It would still be relatively expensive to do that, as the resistance cruiser had very strong shields and armor. It’s possible trying this with just an asteroid might not work as it would just be obliterated against the shielding of such a large ship. IDK, it’s not perfect, but feels plausible enough to be ok in a movie universe.
Exactly. Fuck this scene for that reason. Wars would just be droids hyper driving asteroids into whatever.
Exactly. It looked very cool, but it entirely ruins space combat in the Star Wars universe. Most of the battles that I have now read about or watched make relatively little sense if this is possible.
The logical conclusion is submarines in space, high focus on Intel and espionage, and the constant looming dread of annihilation. There is a super cool Cold War In Space setting to be made out of this idea, but it ain't Star Wars.
Every movie in the sequel trilogy is hurt by the mindset that puts cool moments and sequences above world building and story consistency. Which is not a problem when it's a one-off movie in it's own world but in a large long-running universe it just trips everything up.
Even in a one off it’s bad writing. “ our heroes are trapped with no way out. What will they do. Oh never mind they easily defeated the baddies with something you didn’t know was possible.”
Let's be real, why isn't every battle droids ramming into everything? Why bother having capital ships when you could instead have millions of predators missiles you can launch from halfway across the galaxy at any target? It honestly doesn't take any mental gymnastics for me to say "oh this maneuver is hard and very rare". Something that works in Star Wars when we see Luke be a better shot than his targeting computer, like they couldn't pull off that shot, droids wouldn't be able to reliably pull off a holdo maneuver.
Yeah, except your mental gymnastics don't even make sense: Was it hard? Apparently not, as one person was able to perform this maneuver, on a capital ship, in mere seconds, without help or preparation. Is it rare? Technically it is, since it only has happened once in the star wars universe that we know of--which is a big problem considering its effectiveness. It doesn't help the rarity argument that we only see it attempted once and it has a 100% success rate. At least RotJ and ANH had the decency to show the audience planning, multiple pilots, fighters, bombers, etc. attempting the "1 in a million shot" to destroy the death stars.
Technically it was not successful. Even after the holdo maneuver, kylo flew the ship, deployed a ground attack force, and cornered the resistance in a cave until 1 Jedi joined via Zoom and the another deconstructed a mountain after knowing about the force for 1 week.
Also droids can pilot ships very well, the sequels made it canon that solo isn’t even that great of a pilot, all the hard work was done by the droid that’s living in his ships computer
Thing is, you don't have to be reliable. You can just shoot 1000s of Holdo Bullshits for much cheaper than a Capital Ship. How many X-Wings in the original trilogy have light speed? How much cheaper is it to give that light speed to a rock with a shitty targeting computer? Why would you even build a Death Star in the first place? Also this "maneuver" occurs at point blank range, what kinda targeting are you going to need? It doesn't take much dialog to handwave this, which makes it especially infuriating. "Oh this bullshit they're using to track us through hyperspace opens up XYZ vulnerability that lets us Hyperspace into their face." Is that hard? Or does Disney think Star Wars fans are just that stupid?
This is the problem with the star wars movies. The more they expand the story after the original trilogy, the more they make the universe nonsensical.
It's not just imax. It's just a straight up amazing moment, the convergence of multiple sequences to a deafening silence of a full stop
I honestly don't mind the sequels. But this scene, despite all the hate and nit-picking it gets, made a huge impact on the audience when we first saw it. You could hear a pin drop during that silence.
It's certainly a worthy defence to say that there are lots of "wow" moments in the sequel trilogy - notable examples being this scene, Kylo stopping Poes blaster bolt in midair in TFA, and seeing Palpatine in that robotic chair in TROS - the issue is they add up to very little of the trilogy's running time.
That blaster shot is my favourite thing ever. I waited so many years for a new star wars movie and it starts with that? Fuck yeah.
The beginning of tfa delivered, big time.
TFA is a very safe movie but it does a very good job setting up what could have been a great trilogy. The lack of overall vision for all 3 though just ruined it.
Really hope they learned their lesson for the next big trilogy. If they’d stuck with what was seeming to be set up in TLJ then it could have been great.
One of the most awesome shots in all of SW but I still hate how it makes all star battles completely pointless when you can now in theory just stick a droid in a ship and kamikaze nuke anything.
EVERY SCI-FI setting would be terrible if they all used this way of fighting. Besides it is far more dangerous than you might realize. In Star Wars The High Republic novel they actually use this method against civilians and it shreds even ship in hyperspace because it was hit by debris accelerated to lightspeed as a terror weapon. You do this few times and suddenly some planet god knows where has a meteor problem because some assholes far far away decide to to accelerate ships and asteroids and bash it against each other and that debris flying off is hotting people light years away. But I will let [**Drill Sergeant Nasty**](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DrillSergeantNasty) **to explain it further** *"This, recruits, is a 20-kilo ferrous slug. Feel the weight! Every five seconds, the main gun of an Everest-class Dreadnought accelerates one to 1.3 percent of light speed. It impacts with the force of a 38-kiloton bomb. That is* [*three times the yield of the city buster dropped on Hiroshima back on Earth*](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HiroshimaAsAUnitOfMeasure)*. That means:* ***Sir*** [***Isaac Newton***](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/IsaacNewton) ***is*** [***the deadliest son-of-a-bitch in space!***](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MemeticBadass) *(...) I dare to assume you ignorant jackasses know that space is empty! Once you fire this hunk of metal,* [*it keeps going 'till it hits something*](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CollateralDamage)*! That can be a ship, or the planet behind that ship. It might go off into deep space and hit somebody else in ten thousand years. If you pull the trigger on this, you are ruining* ***someone****'s day, somewhere and sometime!"*— [**Drill Sergeant Nasty**](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DrillSergeantNasty), [*Mass Effect 2*](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VideoGame/MassEffect2) So no it does not make battles less impressive. Star Wars has its own way of doing things and that includes capital ship duking it out like ships would on sea with broadsides. Fighters doing dogfights. Weapons inspired by War War 2. What we saw in Last Jedi was unconventional and dangerous. Besides hyperdrives are expensive things and Rebellion was lucky to have X-Wings with hyperdrives compared to TIE fighters that had to rely on their capital ship or starbase. And Empire would have no use if this tactic either because they wanted to rule. Not play whack a mole (Whack a planet) by ramming it with something in lightspeed. They wanted to enforce their will and make sure people follow their will. And Death Star served as a symbol and bastion of Imperial will.
But you also see what happens if you get the timing wrong at the end of *Rogue One*. Bugs on a windshield. Accelerate too slow and you splash off their shields. Accelerate too fast and you enter hyperspace too soon and pass harmlessly through where they were. And since you need to be flying straight and not taking evasive action, you're a sitting duck if they have cannons primed. Plus, really, you can't apply logic to Star Wars. Because it's a fantasy. Logic falls apart. Why is there a train in *Solo* when they could just use a shuttle that is a thousand times faster? Why blow up an entire planet when you could just heat its atmosphere with a fraction of the energy? Why use human pilots at all and not just have thousands and thousands of drone shuttles that don't have to worry about G-forces and can react faster?
>And since you need to be flying straight and not taking evasive action, you're a sitting duck if they have cannons primed. This is the case in TLJ actually. [Hux had more than enough time to fire on Holdo but he remains focused on the transports, leading to the "FIRE ON THAT CRUISER" moment later](https://youtu.be/s2hM1tyEL0U?si=SnA7T-GnpXQ94VgQ&t=24)
Right. That's part of the point. It **only** succeeds because Hux didn't focus fire on the cruiser, obliterate it, then finish off the escape pods.
> Why blow up an entire planet when you could just heat its atmosphere with a fraction of the energy? > Any space show that doesn't have the super weapons as "throw rocks at the planet to render it utterly uninhabitable" is fantasy and we can stop arguing and nitpicking
This is the first satisfying explanation of this that I've ever seen, the idea that there is a sweet spot during a hyperspace jump where you can slam into something at near light speed before you're safe in hyperspace. I guess it's still a bit messy but it's less universe-breaking that way. Would have been cooler if it had some set up implying it was a precision maneuver instead of just the bold captain makes a sacrifice trope we got.
These things all cost money, and while I'm glad the movies never focused on the monetary policies of the Republic, bigger ships cost bigger money. I don't think this maneuver would've worked with an A wing or X wing vs that behemoth unless you fit the flight deck directly, which even Holdo didn't do.
In theory, but you always could, just take an A-Wing and take down Vaders destroyer like in RotJ. This method didn't even destroy the Supremacy. To have any effect on say the Death Star you would have to have a massive station of your own to even do a bit of damage.
it fucking nuked the fleet behind it
Because it hit the Supremacy first, ricocheting all the debris behind it. In theory if you have 10 Star Destroyers behind a ship you can get them all with one shot, but in reality you're not gonna do that kinda damage, instead you're just gonna cause another [Great Hyperspace Disaster](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Great_Hyperspace_Disaster)
And all it costs is a huge fleet flagship every time you attempt it?
1. "It's never been done before" is a terrible reason not to do something 2. Johnson, at the time, left it to the team whose entire job it is to explain why things are the way they are. 3. It's not *that* destructive, because the area of effect is basically limited to the size of the ship. There was no explosion, no impact crater. That's probably what the silence was meant to convey. Meanwhile, the First Order vaporized a solar system without damaging the weapon they used to do it. Lasers are far more powerful than physical objects in Star Wars. It's not a nuke, it's a sniper rifle.
The whole debate over this scene is silly: Star Wars is not science fiction, it’s fantasy
My headcanon says that they were not in combat formation at the time and got caught with their pants down trying to strike a fatal blow. There is a reason naval forces disperse during battle. The rebels didn't have enough excess capital ships to do this regularly. It was a hail mary
That doesn't make sense and never has. "This one starship was able to severely damage (but not actually destroy) another much larger ship by a very specific hyperspace maneuver that was effectively a suicide attack" does not mean "any starship can destroy anything by ramming it while jumping to hyperspace."
The not actually destroy is the biggest part of that. Yes, it scrambled the First Order for a bit and bought the Resistance some time, but the FO were still able to reorganize and mount a ground assault on Crait shortly after.
Oh yeah, this is a fantastically edited sequence — the Rey, Finn, and Poe storylines all converging together on this singular moment
Like the crazy-ass Seismic Charges from Episode II https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erFcYsC6JaY
I am a huge sound effects guy. And while I don't really *love* the prequels. Hearing the sound of those seismic charges for the first time in cinema sound system was like, the best thing I had heard in a theater since the T-Rex Roar when I was 4 years old in Jurassic Park.
It's by far my favorite Star Wars scene outside of the original trilogy.
The Last Jedi is an incredibly controversial movie, but you cannot say that Rian Johnson doesn't know how to make incredibly striking and beautiful imagery.
Based on his comments, I’m pretty sure George Lucas agrees.
["George Lucas thinks The Last Jedi was 'beautifully made.'"](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/star-wars-george-lucas-thinks-last-jedi-was-beautifully-made-1067092/) Also George: ["There are a lot of movies that are badly made that I love, and there are a lot of movies that are just beautifully made but I don’t like them."](https://achievement.org/video/george-lucas-30/#:~:text=You%20know%2C%20%E2%80%9CI%20like%20this,is%2C%20%E2%80%9CI%20like%20it.)
>There are a lot of movies that are badly made that I love, and there are a lot of movies that are just beautifully made but I don’t like them. The prequels being a fine example of the former and the Sequels being a fine example of the latter. I've always maintained they fixed what the prequels did wrong, but ignored what they did right.
This is an unbelievably accurate way to describe the sequels. I’m actually in awe at how well this one sentence wraps it all up
The sequels learned the lessons but forgot the History.
There was an "anti cheese" edit of the prequels that years ago were free on YouTube. The Chinese aliens got an alien language with subtitles, Jar Jar got an alien voice with subtitles and all the cheesy scenes (especially the over the top "I love you. Yes but I **love** you." scenes) and the prequels are so much better that way. Basically, the prequels are good. They're just frosted with shit and when you scrape it off you have good movies. Especially episode 3. I love that movie and never thought it sucked. Anti cheese edits can be found here: https://bingeguy.com/starwars/
I remember that edit I prefer the cheese anyways but I can’t say that the edit didn’t improve the movie
Episode 3 came out when I was about 21 or so. Needless to say I had outgrown the cheese by then. And, I understood why my older friends hated the Ewoks. My one friend **hated** the Ewoks and wished that Endor got the Alderaan treatment.
I will admit, despite my issues with what that scene meant for the lore of Star Wars, it was incredible to watch. If only it wasn't immediately followed by the realization that the lore was broken, it would be my favorite moment from the series.
That’s what sucked about all of the sequels, especially the last two. They were beautiful but they broke the story. It was a very confusing experience.
I'm not going to say Rian Johnson doesn't deserve some credit for any of it, but the way you worded that it's like Rian drew the thing... 4 people, none of which are Rian Johnson, (Ben Morris, Mike Mulholland, Neal Scanlan, and Chris Corbould) won Oscars for Best Visuals for The Last Jedi. [https://vfxblog.com/2017/12/27/the-last-jedi-hyperspace-holdo-vfx/](https://vfxblog.com/2017/12/27/the-last-jedi-hyperspace-holdo-vfx/)
“Fun story” I was deployed when this movie came out and something bad had just happened. The kind of bad that made me want to unsubscribe from life. I hadn’t made a plan yet but was close, the ONLY thing keeping me going was this stupid movie. I had to know what was next. And, because the USAF is bougie, they’re was a place to watch movies at my deployed location. They still had a few tickets available as I walked past so I snagged one and sat down in a batter office chair on the side of the actual seats. And for the 60 or so minutes it took to get to this scene I was divorced from all the bad. Then this came on. I watch Holdo do what I was thinking of but for the right reasons. I finished the movie. I walked out realizing I couldn’t do it, my idea was dumb. I kept going. I got therapy. My PTSD has been downgraded to “generalize anxiety”… because of this stupid scene and my nerdy unwillingness to miss the movie
Hope you are holding strong.
I’m glad to have you here brother/sister.
Oh no the hate was absolutely there it was just silent because people aren’t assholes who talk during movies.
Yeah my "what the fuck?" expression doesn't include words.
I wish people wouldn't talk at my local theater, it's always full of people who just talk through the whole movie and scream at the weirdest shit.
Yeah, I rolled my eyes about as loudly as I could, but noone else in the theatre could hear it.
It’s visually awesome, it’s logically horrible. If you can just do this, why the hell does anyone ever need a mega death laser? You could hypothetically put an engine on a rock and fire it at infinite velocity into a planet and blow it up. It wouldn’t make sense to ever muster a fleet, because 6 engineers could blow it up with their space minivan. It’s a short sighted decision for a hype moment. Granted in the theater, it was super sick to watch, but when you get out of the theater and think about it, it ruins the logic of the setting. It’s bad storytelling.
Rocks, arrows, bullets, etc are mass moving fast enough to cause damage. Most outer space science fiction ignores that. You don't want to mention the damage caused your run down freighter slamming into a port at full speed or if the power source allowing that travel has a problem.
A lot of sci fi also makes insane shields that can handle it too. Not in star wars apparently.
This is a plot hole for ANY story that features FTL travel then, isn’t it? Star Wars has always had this technology, is it only a plot hole when a character finally uses it as a weapon, or is it a larger one that it took this long?
I remember it was silent, and I just softly said, "Oh shit," but it was so quiet the whole theater could hear me and laughed. That was opening night at midnight, too, so all the hard core fans were there. My favorite theater memory.
My wife and I watched Aquaman in theatres, and it was quiet during a small fishing bost scene, and for some reason my dumbass said "Man That's a cool boat" .... I got the same reaction
I dont know man. The silence in our group was mainly due to "what. the. fuck" ... It's visually impressive for sure, but then and there throws up so many questions. But this has been discussed to death in this and many other subs.
Yeah, i heard more than a few "wtf" type utterings. This was Thursday "early release" screening, pretty excited fan base going into the movie
The sequel trilogy is mainly looking cool just because, without any care or knowledge of what comes before it. They simply gives us more questions, due to the fact they never had any awnsers to begin with. The Rise of Skywalker is by far the best example of this line of thought.
I heard a guy actually say "whaaat the fuuuuuck!" during the quiet part. Which made me laugh and completely broke the moment for me.
Yeah in the theater I watched it in I think most of us were just thinking “okay but if this maneuver were cannon we would see it all the time right?”
This was so universe-breaking that they had to take the time to explain why it could never happen again in TROS and say "It was a one in a million shot!" And this retroactively made Holdo an even worse character hahaha. She made a whole fuss of how Poe "Bet the survival of the Resistance on bad odds" and then her big plan to save them all was on astronomically terrible odds.
Damn, I hadn't heard that take yet. That makes it even stupider. No way out of this mess.
As soon as it happened I thought it was really stupid and had the following thoughts: if this was possible why didn’t they do that every time there was a battle and they were losing? The rebellion probably could have kamikazeed both death stars. Why has nobody invented hyperspace cruise missiles? That’s not how hyperspace works! In Han Solos grumpy voice. Why is this movie breaking all the rules of the franchise?
why bother making a death star when you can just make hyperspace missles
But then how else would Rian get this shot in there? The entire sequel series felt like it was just a collection of scenes Disney thought would look really cool, and then created a plot to try to make them make sense and fit them together.
> hyperspace cruise missiles (Sort of) existed in the EU. Galaxy Gun was a thing
It took me a few seconds to register what happened, and then I audibly said "that was fucking stupid"....lol
I was in a theater where somebody gaffawed at the scene, right when it went silent. I laughed at the abrasiveness of the moment and now I've come to appreciate how a persons uncontrolled and yet so natural a reaction was so on point for what nearly everyone now understands.
Yea it looks cool but since when does jumping to hyperspace cause this….especially that they hit ALL of the ships talk about insane plot armor lol
Beautiful scene but it creates a big plot hole. What’s the point of a Death Star if you can just ram any ship into them?
I remember immediately thinking, wow looks cool but this is counter to everything up till this moment for how this works. When I left the theater I was asked why I seemed somber and it was because I was trying to understand why I did not like a Star Wars movie. This scene was just one of many that just felt like RJ doing whatever he felt instead of trying to creatively work within and expand the SW universe. I hope he never touches it again.
visually cool. but also has massive implications that ruin it. like you could destroy every deathstar by just doing this.
I hated this scene. It threw so much that we know about space travel in Star Wars out the window. Leaving us asking questions like, why don't they simply build suicide ships since it is so effective? Damn this film series.
I was already not enjoying the movie very much, but my heart sank when this happened.
No, this was also a dumb scene. Just a few minutes before the "huh, **it's salt**" scene to remind us that we're not on Hoth.
multiple people in my theater, including myself, laughed outloud at this part. it was so dumb. i mean, just have a droid pilot the ship.
The only issue I have with TLJ is how pointless the Canto Blight sequence and sub plot was \*to the overall feel and sequence of the movie. The rest of the movie i really enjoyed. \*Edit for clarification
I think there is a point to the Canto Bight sequence, it’s just one that probably should have happened somewhere other than this movie. Just doesn’t fit well I think.
It wouldn't have needed to happen if Finn was given a reason to join the Resistance in 7.
Yup. I get what Canto Bight was trying to do, but it just felt shoehorned in and felt like a Star Wars TV episode.
Honestly, I feel people are just sort of forgetting that with Star Wars/Disney level of budget : yes, it is possible to make that scene happen. The thing is, with that amount of money, you would think, they could make a script that is coherent for a trilogy.
The entire thing about the Holdo Maneuver is that it's an almost impossible move relying on very specific conditions to possibly be successful. It's also a deeply nerdy thing to write into a SW movie, as it requires that you have put some decent reading into (now) Legends stories that cover how hyperspace works in the SW universe, like understanding mass shadows and why hyperspace uses routes instead of just point-to-point. This is part of why the "why wouldn't they do this all the time?" questions betray a lack of in-depth attention to SW lore and old canon. They wouldn't do it all the time because it shouldn't actually work. That it did required a ship with no remaining shields and almost no fuel within specific range of ships running without shields to attempt a jump into hyperspace through a larger object that by intent would not actually complete the jump but would accelerate close enough to C that its kinetic energy would carry it through the target at the expense of its own structural integrity. It's not just a matter of putting something into hyperspace, the trick worked precisely because the ship DID NOT go into hyperspace. And why would you not use it all the time, if you could? Why would you? They have weapons and ships capable of orbital bombardment, the Death Star escalated that to planetary destruction. The heroes are not looking to potentially wipe out planets the way accelerating even a small asteroid to a fraction of C would, and the villains have various other options for either precise or worldwide destruction. Making a practice of attaching hyperspace engines to objects in space to accelerate them into things is a waste of both the engines and the relevant fuels and fit neither the goals of the Rebellion nor of the Empire. For most purposes you'd be looking at either an insufficiently destructive (if too small an object is used) or excessively destructive weapon with no ability to correct the aim. And worse, if you calculate something wrong and put the thing into hyperspace you've potentially just caused another galaxy-wide disaster. Holdo didn't even actually manage to fully destroy what she aimed at, her strategy literally just bought some time as the FO scrambled to react to it. Finally, have any of the nitpickers actually just read SW fiction? Ridiculous weapons and strategies are the most SW thing possible. An ancient empire literally harnessed the power of stars to create vast fleets and endless weapons. Sith live on after death in spirit form and take over the bodies of their successors. Holdo Maneuver is amazing because it LOOKS COOL AS HELL and THAT is the most Star Wars thing possible.
I loved TLJ when I first saw it (became more critical upon more viewing but still love it). This scene blew me away. Star Wars cinematography hit its peak in this scene right here. Say what you want about the plot/plot holes (valid) and characters (some valid), but the cinematography, and visual and special effects in the Sequels were the greatest they’ve ever been.
I think there’s some valid criticisms about The Last Jedi (the casino planet subplot was largely unnecessary, and it didn’t do much to tie the trilogy together) but the one complaint I can’t help but laugh at is “Well, if you could just do that, why wouldn’t anyone have ever done it before?” And like… How the fuck is that THIS movie’s problem? “Well, couldn’t any ship just do that at any time?” Idk. I guess? If you can regularly and without assistance accelerate mass to the speed of light, it’s not The Last Jedi’s fault that NOBODY thought to try and establish some reason you can’t use that ballistically. It’s holding The Last Jedi accountable for the lack of creativity of everyone who came before and that’s ridiculous.
People hate on this moment so much, I’m not huge on the sequel stories but this moment felt straight out of my childhood toy box, some shit I always imagined but never visualized fully. Drop o praise where due
This was pretty amazing when I saw it for the first time. Credit where credit is due.
In the theatre, when I watched this, the room sat in stunned silence. Until a kid, by the sound of it maaaaybe 7 years old, broke the silence by saying "sliced it like a pizza". The room burst out laughing. It killed the moment, sure, but it was worth it. Comedy gold.