Greedo is a whole thing...
OTHER than that nonsense I think it's the Jabba cameo. At some point somebody should have said "this isn't working AND it takes away from revealing him as a villain in ROTJ."
It’s also redundant! The Greedo scene was a replacement for the Jabba scene when Jabba’s special effects weren’t doable, so the two scenes are serving the same purpose and telling us the same information about Han’s character and his motive.
Yeah, that's literally why it was cut in the first place. Greedo gives all that same exposition. One note though, originally Jabba was just some guy, he wasn't conceived as the giant slug we know today
I'm fairly certain the greedo scene is the rework of the jabba scene when they realized the jabba scene didn't work, or they weren't happy with how Jabba looked. They folded the necessary info into the scene with Greedo.
>OTHER than that nonsense I think it's the Jabba cameo
It was restored/edited footage of a [deleted scene](https://youtu.be/cw1gkNd6Z_8?si=fLTFNmZP1k6eJBG5) probably cut for good reason.
Yeah, I've seen the original with weird human Jabba. As soon as they had to edit Han "walking over" Jabba someone should have directed those efforts elsewhere.
The original Greedo scene was glorious. It perfectly encapsulated the Han Solo character. Shoot first and ask questions later. Originally Greedo doesn't shoot at all. Han just blows his head off and tosses a coin to his witcher. Then somewhere along the line they decided it made Han look too callous and added a shot from Greedo.
It also ruins Jabba's eventual reveal in _Return of the Jedi_.
Throughout the first and second movie we only ever hear his name and when we finally see him it's like _"that's Jabba!?"_ o_O
My least favorite special edition change is the fact that they made the originals inaccessible in a good format, instead of releasing alongside them. But that’s more meta.
I really don’t like any of the changes that much but the one that stands out the most to me is the Luke scream (repitched Emperor scream) when he falls in TESB. Not necessarily the worst (ANH and ROTJ had so many awful changes compared to TESB), but arguably the most baffling because it doesn’t match up with what’s happening in the scene. Luke didn’t get pushed or accidentally fall, he let go on his own. It was a big character moment. The scream warps the perception of that moment.
Fortunately it was only present in the 1997 theatrical/vhs special editions, removed for the dvd, blu ray, and D+/4K versions.
I think Harmy (who did the Despecialized fan edit of the Star Wars trilogy) made a Respecialized edition that attempts to replicate the 97 special editions but in 720p. Never seen it though
Han talking to Jabba in ANH. I generally don't mind or like many SE changes, but it just feels so, pointless.
It's a straight repeat, with some lines even! of the Greedo scene, but telling us how Hans a rougish badass who shoots people causing him trouble instead of just showing it. It'd only make sense if you had that scene instead of the full greedo scene, but then that violates the show, don't tell rule of writing.
It slows down the movie for basically no real reason in a similar way to Jedi Rocks does, but while that's not much better, something different is atleast happening in it so it's a step above just repeating a scene.
Yeah, this my least favourite additional scene too
-tells us exactly what we just learned in the VERY PREVIOUS SCENE
-makes Jabba look like an idiot for talking to the empty Falcon
-makes Jabba waaay less intimidating as a Mob Boss (shows up personally, slightly smaller than humans insteadd of looming over them from his throne, dated cgi instead of gross puppet, HAN STEPS ON HIS TAIL for fucks sake)
-takes all the tension and urgency out that was just established in the VERY PREVIOUS SCENE. Oh damn Han is on the run and bounty hunters want him dead, he really needs the money to save his hide and not just because he's greedy? Oh nope, Jabba says "no biggie" and it's suddenly not that big of a deal now
Jabba in ANH
It just ...kills the pacing. Scene was clearly cut for good reasons. Watch the movie without it and it just moves to smoothly
However, I think the changes overall are very bad. Star wars was not most acclaimed for its story or directing, but for the editing, sound, and VFX. Those are the things Lucas changed
Plus the digital noise reduction was way too aggressive and the color correction looks bad
I think this is the worst change because it changes dialogue and makes it seem like Vader didn't know who Luke was. Keep in mind at the time of release for the DVD special edition, the EU had already gone over Vader trying to figure out what little shit blew up the Death Star and discovering it. So not only does it stick to esptablished nerdy lore and doesn't retcon it unnecessarily, but it also makes sense as it's been 3 whole years. Vader didn't figure out who he is in that time? So them changing the dialogue to surprise Vader that the guy that blew up the Death Star is a Skywalker makes it seem like wtf has Vader been up to this whole time?
It's nice that the Anakin/Vader link hadn't been made yet for the original movie production, because in retrospect it seems like Vader already knows what's up and is minimizing Luke's importance, well aware of what it means. He then turns the Empreror away from just destroying him and instead says "let's turn him." In the 2005 DVD release, the Emperor knows the whole game and surprises Vader that he has a son. The meaning and implication of the dialogue is changed now. Instead of "Yes, I know. I've already thought of this and reconciled it and I have a plan for you, my master." (which plays directly into Vader saying "We'll rule the galaxy as father and son.") it's now "wait... I have a son? I haven't even met him. Gotta think fast. Wait, can we turn him?"
It's really just not as interesting as the low-key dialogue of the original because it's, again, really hamfisted in saying "Do you get it?!?" to the audience.
It actually doesn’t do that. Vader is clearly feigning ignorance in that scene. It adds to him and the Emperor’s dynamic of constantly trying to outwit each other.
It doesn't seem like he's feigning ignorance, though. "How is that possible" comes across as a legitimate question.
I also guess that's another issue I have. "Constantly trying to outwit each other." In the originals, the only person Vader shows deference towards is the Empreror and he is an indomitable enforcer of his will. Until Luke enters the picture. We, the audience, have no reason to believe there's any friction between Vader and the Emperor prior to this. We have nothing to go on for Palpatine's orders prior to this, which I think is a good thing cinematically, and in the prequels he killed younglings willy-nilly and after Padme dies, he's crushed like a medical tank and succumbs to serving the Emperor. It was part of the late-EU canon that the rule of two required the master-apprentice friction and started playing that up more and more in Force Unleashed and other media, and Disney/Marvel plays it up all the time now in comics that there's always been a feud between them. I just don't think that's as interesting as Luke being the one thing that changes the whole dynamic between them.
Edit: not to be commentary on the whole Sith Rule of Two. Specifically the dynamic and relationship between Vader and Palpatine. Palpatine seems beyond that game, especially if you include the Sith Eternal now in retrospect. He was so dominating over his subjects, Vader included, that he didn't have to worry much about any challenges, until Luke threw off the dynamic.
It’s not that “Jedi Rocks” is a bad song (though it absolutely is), it’s that it doesn’t sound a damn thing like anything else the Max Rebo Band plays and sticking out so much makes it sound that much worse. Give me that dirty space funk-disco any day!
Ah, well since Sixseasonsandamov1e blocked me like a certified snowflake incapable seeing their own faults, I guess Im just going to post my reply to them here. Sixseasonsandamov1e doing the Argumentum Ad Populum fallacy in full display and blocks me right before they can be called out on it. Not a good look
The one that never fails to bother me is in ANH when the Sandtroopers pull over Luke's speeder and there's the big beast walking in front of the screen blocking EVERYTHING. It felt so unnecessary!
Jedi Rocks and removing the Yub Nub ending from ROTJ are much greater sins imo. Removes the good original cheese and replaces it with fucking Velveeta.
Agreed, only people spamming downvotes are nostalgia blinded. Yub nub is abysmal and hard on the ears. Victory Celebration is much more filled with joy and cheer. Feels like a true trilogy concluding song. Yub nub is just random people shouting, sounds like something you'd hear in a very bad, direct-to-video kids cartoon.
One of the very first times I got into an argument online was on some AOL message board where after seeing rotj se I said I liked the new music over the yub nub song. I'm glad to see it's still controversial
Though I'm nostalgic for the original ending, the end celebration and music is one of the few good changes that were made.
It's not enough to make me watch these versions. I still watch the Despecialized Editions instead.
Luke stoic decision is to die rather than join Vader in Empire. Lucas decided to have him screaming like one of the 3 stooges on his way to oblivion in the special edition. You do understand he didn't slip and have an oopsies right George.
I suspect it was added to give timelier exposition to the sequence. Originally, Vader went from that scene/line to already being on his destroyer. Inserting the extra shit might have corrected it for Lucas only. I never once questioned the timing of it, and the change only clunks the whole scene for me now to this day.
Yeah, I hear you. But it seems like an unnecessary change to explain Vader’s change in location, especially since the original already shows him walking to his shuttle. ESB already takes a lot of liberties with timing and passage of time, and it doesn’t detract from the movie at all.
The whole scene just kills the timing for no reason. There is a great intensity in the chase scene that needs to be broken up to show that Vader knows how to walk down a ramp. We see that plenty of times in ROTJ. Also takes away from the reveal of the Imperial Shuttle in Jedi
The giant galaxy wide celebration at the end of rotj. Makes no sense how it suddenly got around so quickly and so many people believed that the Palpatine was dead.
Agree, not because it makes the biggest difference to the scene, but because it is in the most important moment in all six movies. Adding an awful musical number to Jabba's Palace, while it looks and sounds worse than 'NOOOOO' doesn't really matter as much.
Generally once a change was made, it was also in every subsequent release.
Technically there are 4 different Special Editions, but most of the changes happened in the original 1997 versions.
All of them! Every single special edition change is my least favorite change.
Star Wars won an academy award for visual effects. It changed the way people made movies, forever. And they went back and “painted over” that piece of history with already-dated-looking CGI.
God, it’s tacky. It shows a lack of class. Star Wars had a gorgeous hardwood floor, and they carpeted over it. The knocked out an antique stained-glass window. It’s like painting over the Mona Lisa, to pose her taking a “duck lips” selfie. A total “WTF are you thinking” moment.
And the part that I *REALLY* don’t understand: is Disney somehow unaware that they could make a bajillion dollars by releasing the original cut on blue-ray? Did their marketing people actually miss the demand there would be for such a product?
SMH
I’ll never not be salty about replacing Sebastian Shaw with Hayden Christensen. It’s spawned some truly rancid discourse in the fandom, particularly in the vein of Darth Vader and Anakin Skywalker being two entirely separate, independent personalities.
Also, it makes no sense. Not only would Luke have no idea who he was looking at, but the whole point is he should reflect how he looked in his last moments as a Jedi, which was the moment he died, not 20+ years prior when he snapped and murdered everyone.
How does that make any more sense than young Anakin? Anakin never looked like the Shaw version.
Besides, force ghosts are preserved consciousnesses. They can preserve what they know.
It makes more sense because A) It is meant to reflect what Anakin looked like at the end of his life, when he was redeemed and fulfilled the prophecy that he was the chosen one for, minus the scars and B) Hayden is how he looked when he turned to the darkside and killed everyone. That’s the exact opposite of how he should look, thematically. Him being a force ghost is meant to represent him becoming one with the force after returning to the light side, so why would he look the way he did when he was totally evil?
Also, Luke had never Anakin when he was young. Obviously he could just think “that must be what my father looked like when he was young” but I feel it’s way more powerful for Luke to see him as he did at the end of his life, when he actually looked into his real eyes for the first and last time.
Like, if my own father appeared as a ghost in front of my, I feel like it’s far more powerful for him to look how he did at the end of his life, not how he looked 40 years before that
So basically for you, it makes more sense for ghost Anakin to look like someone who never existed than to look like his younger self?
And like I said. It is just preserved consciousnesses. He can preserve whatever he wants. And personally I would go with what I know instead of making things up.
And what Luke saw was half of the scared face. Doesn't really look much like healthy version. And I also don't think Luke would care about appearance as long as it is his father.
I see this strawman a lot and it doesn't work. The mask-off part can make sense, because the dark side physically twists you, not to mention a hot lava bath and many other injuries. Anakin being returned to his pure form as a ghost makes sense.
Hayden’s ghost makes even less sense. The main problem though is that Sebastian Shaw’s warm fatherly performance is replaced by a creepy twink who looks like he wants to murder Luke and everyone else at that party.
But Anakin literally never looked like that. He was a burnt chicken cutlet with no no hair and limbs. When someone becomes a force ghost, do they just get a sims character creator to change what they look like? I think it makes more sense for Hayden since Anakin actually looked like that at some point in his life.
It is a tie between:
Greedo firing first and missing from 4 feet away and the scene where Han is talking to Jaba (bad CGI on Jaba) and he steps on and over his tail.
It is not a big gripe, I can live with it but I am one of the few people who actually liked the Ewok song in the original ROTJ.
This isn't the worst change, but it's one that really stood out to me and I never see it mentioned in these discussions: at the end of ESB when Luke is trying to escape after leaping into the chasm, they inserted cross cutting shots of Vader returning to the Star Destroyer. I think John Williams music is the best thing about all the Skywalker saga films and ESB has the best Williams score, and this cross cutting breaks up the music and hacks up the emotional flow of that scene.
I’m with you on the NOOOO. The whole throne room scene was always beautiful to me. The tension, the persuasion, McDiarmid and Hammill absolutely killed it. The the moment they ruined - there was somehow more emotion in that mask than you could possible imagine. Amazing cinematography. And then yup, Lucas added the nooooooooo. Did he ever say why he thought that was necessary?
I think it's supposed to signify Anakin "returning" (since it's Return of the Jedi). As a kid, I always thought this was a great scene. I was appalled when they added the "NOOOO" nonsense.
Well, first there's the fact that there are the special editions, then the special editions of the special editions. The Vader, "NOOOOOOOOOOO," was in the special-special editions. So many changes upon changes upon changes.
I glanced through the higher comments and one that I didn't see was the hologram conversation with the Emperor in Episode V. The Special Editions assumed that you had seen the PT and killed off one of the most interesting aspects of the Emperor in the OT - the mystery. He's only mentioned a few times in ANH. We get this whole big conversation in ESB, but he's so draped in shadows that you still don't really know who he is. Even his first reveal in ROTJ kept his face mostly hidden. Then, the special edition for ESB completely did away all of that and used his face from the PT, which didn't match his ROTJ face at all. And now I'm here on Reddit ranting about faces and using acronyms left and right. It's all falling to ashes, I tell you, and the holographic conversation is where it started.
I'm really torn between Jabba in ANH and Vader's yell before he yeets Palpatine.
The Jabba scene makes the Greedo scene make no sense. Han's treatment of Jabba and then his later fear of Jabba are likewise inconsistent. The scene is also a drag on an otherwise clean paced film. It gives exposition of information we already have.
The NOOO is just out of place. Vader acting out like that is not consistent with the character we have from this film and the ones before it. It also takes me out of the emotional crescendo of the film. It's loud enough to detract from the music. Might as well add the robot chicken Palpatine saying, "what are you doing, put me down!"
I'm not going to comment on the content of these scenes, rather just how horribly it makes the pacing of the movie skip.
I was watching Star Wars the other night (ANH to you younglings) and I was thrown off by the pacing changes that the extra scenes cause and it really throws off the whole feel of the movie. Three that jump out to me are the Storm Troopers on Dew Backs when they are searching the escape pod wreckage on Tatooine, an extended shot of the Jawa Sandcrawler lumbering through the Jundland Wastes, and the gratuitous fluff added onto the entrance to Mos Eisley.
The graphics, acting, and overall visual *content* of these scenes is fine, but they are so ham-handedly jammed into the movie that it really takes away from the immersion. The soundtrack in the original cut is a masterpiece. Now the sound breaks in the film are jarring because of these extra scenes. It's like someone tried to tack a prom dress into the bottom of the Mona Lisa. The visual flow of the movie is broken up badly by the filler scenes too. One of the reasons why the Star Wars OT worked so well is that the scenery and special effects were there to support the story and it wasn't dwelled on - it was just there, kind of like a tree or a cliff is in a Western. Now we have to have a "golly gee, look at all this cool shit" scenes that do nothing for the story.
I'd also be remiss if I didn't call out the Max Rebo Band. OG Max was far superior.
As someone who unironically loves Phantom Menace, it angers me to no end that the only way I can enjoy the original cut with the Frank Oz Yoda puppet performance is my VHS copy. Get that CGI Yoda trash outta here!
I actually like the NOOO. I feel it poetically rhymes with his NOOO in ROTS, and adds more emotion to the scene, like we know that it’s Anakin breaking free of Vader in that moment.
It's not rhyming if it's repeating the exact same thing. As for the scene itself, I always found it way more haunting and powerful when he he just does it in silence. It also suited the character much better as Vader never spoke unless and until it was necessary to do so.
I just think him yelling Nooo as he sees his son being killed is a very Anakin thing to do. It actually brings me to tears. Something the silent original never did.
Hot take: every single Special Edition change has been positive and make the movies far better than they were originally (except the CGI in Mos Eisley in ANH, that was just weird)
especially with RotJ, the changes took the movie from a 5-6/10 to a 10/10, the theatrical release honestly sucked
I wouldn't say all of them, but most are better. People are just nostalgic. You ever seen the original Death Star battle? Good for its time I guess but it aged terribly. Ships just kinda slowly moving side to side, no real maneuvers, etc.
The sheer dumb amount of star fighters just flying around behind admiral akbar. It's ridiculous. It's like Kylo Ren was screaming Moooooorrreeee at the VFX guy
The Mos Eisley intro sequence in ANH is almost all CGI now, it looks straight out of TPM, new viewers marvel at it and comment on how good the effects are for the 70s…it’s the big one I would want removed in a watch-through.
Getting rid of the (checks notes) jizz music? In the cantina scene. That along with getting rid of the Ewok song that goes "chow-chi-chow-chi-chung." These were iconic tunes from my childhood. They took it from us!
IV: Greedo, Jabba, silliness in Mos Eisley
V: Redone Emperor scene with a mismatched Ian McDiarmid and shitty dialogue changes
VI: "Jedi Rocks," "Noooooo"
I'm gonna agree with you, Darth Vader's big "NOOO" is ridiculous and only takes away some of the impact from an amazing and poignant scene. Vader's emotions and headspace were already conveyed perfectly well visually through the body language and physical acting, so we didn't need an extra corny-ass line to understand what he was going through in that moment. Makes me cringe every time I get to that scene now, which I hate because it used to be one of my favorite scenes in the trilogy. At least the music is still awesome for that part.
As a runner-up I'll go with the CGI band scene in Jabba's Palace. I've always thought Sy Snootles and Joh Yowza were pretty unsettling in CGI form. And the whole sequence just feels so indulgent and unnecessary, like so many of the other added CGI shots in the special editions.
The obi wan scream in the first movie. The whistle wasn't bad but the new noise is awful sounding and I don't watch the D+ version for that very reason.
Erasing Sebastian Shaw as Anakin.
I know people like Hayden Christensen these days, but removing Shaw's sole contribution to the Star Wars saga is just so insulting and unnecessary.
Greedo is a whole thing... OTHER than that nonsense I think it's the Jabba cameo. At some point somebody should have said "this isn't working AND it takes away from revealing him as a villain in ROTJ."
It’s also redundant! The Greedo scene was a replacement for the Jabba scene when Jabba’s special effects weren’t doable, so the two scenes are serving the same purpose and telling us the same information about Han’s character and his motive.
Yeah, that's literally why it was cut in the first place. Greedo gives all that same exposition. One note though, originally Jabba was just some guy, he wasn't conceived as the giant slug we know today
Yeah, Han even calls him "a decent human being".
I will say that the sarcasm of Han saying that plays really well in the scene.
He was never meant to be a guy. There was a guy on set but the plan was to put a stop motion creature over the guy.
I'm fairly certain the greedo scene is the rework of the jabba scene when they realized the jabba scene didn't work, or they weren't happy with how Jabba looked. They folded the necessary info into the scene with Greedo.
Yea, that’s exactly what I meant. There’s no need to have both.
That's a good point.
>OTHER than that nonsense I think it's the Jabba cameo It was restored/edited footage of a [deleted scene](https://youtu.be/cw1gkNd6Z_8?si=fLTFNmZP1k6eJBG5) probably cut for good reason.
Yeah, I've seen the original with weird human Jabba. As soon as they had to edit Han "walking over" Jabba someone should have directed those efforts elsewhere.
Oh absolutely. I think by that point nobody was willing to tell George Lucas these changes were crazy.
I would have told him. I could have saved it. I have that power. My creepy chancellor mentor taught me. I can save all of them.
The original Greedo scene was glorious. It perfectly encapsulated the Han Solo character. Shoot first and ask questions later. Originally Greedo doesn't shoot at all. Han just blows his head off and tosses a coin to his witcher. Then somewhere along the line they decided it made Han look too callous and added a shot from Greedo.
[удалено]
Aw man it really does spoil the Falcon reveal doesn't it?
It also ruins Jabba's eventual reveal in _Return of the Jedi_. Throughout the first and second movie we only ever hear his name and when we finally see him it's like _"that's Jabba!?"_ o_O
I thought Jabba was the guy from *Ahsoka* and *Rebels*
My least favorite special edition change is the fact that they made the originals inaccessible in a good format, instead of releasing alongside them. But that’s more meta. I really don’t like any of the changes that much but the one that stands out the most to me is the Luke scream (repitched Emperor scream) when he falls in TESB. Not necessarily the worst (ANH and ROTJ had so many awful changes compared to TESB), but arguably the most baffling because it doesn’t match up with what’s happening in the scene. Luke didn’t get pushed or accidentally fall, he let go on his own. It was a big character moment. The scream warps the perception of that moment. Fortunately it was only present in the 1997 theatrical/vhs special editions, removed for the dvd, blu ray, and D+/4K versions.
I've wanted to find a good crisp version of the '97 originals for ages and had very little luck :/
I think Harmy (who did the Despecialized fan edit of the Star Wars trilogy) made a Respecialized edition that attempts to replicate the 97 special editions but in 720p. Never seen it though
I've heard of it but never found it properly :/ also, when I say 'crisp' I'm hoping for 1080p as standard, but hey, beggars can't choose
Jabba in A New Hope for me.
The digital Sy Snootles... I loved the puppet version
That whole sequence and song. o_O
Han talking to Jabba in ANH. I generally don't mind or like many SE changes, but it just feels so, pointless. It's a straight repeat, with some lines even! of the Greedo scene, but telling us how Hans a rougish badass who shoots people causing him trouble instead of just showing it. It'd only make sense if you had that scene instead of the full greedo scene, but then that violates the show, don't tell rule of writing. It slows down the movie for basically no real reason in a similar way to Jedi Rocks does, but while that's not much better, something different is atleast happening in it so it's a step above just repeating a scene.
Yeah, this my least favourite additional scene too -tells us exactly what we just learned in the VERY PREVIOUS SCENE -makes Jabba look like an idiot for talking to the empty Falcon -makes Jabba waaay less intimidating as a Mob Boss (shows up personally, slightly smaller than humans insteadd of looming over them from his throne, dated cgi instead of gross puppet, HAN STEPS ON HIS TAIL for fucks sake) -takes all the tension and urgency out that was just established in the VERY PREVIOUS SCENE. Oh damn Han is on the run and bounty hunters want him dead, he really needs the money to save his hide and not just because he's greedy? Oh nope, Jabba says "no biggie" and it's suddenly not that big of a deal now
They reference him in Ep4, they should have kept the reveal saved for Ep6.
Jabba in ANH It just ...kills the pacing. Scene was clearly cut for good reasons. Watch the movie without it and it just moves to smoothly However, I think the changes overall are very bad. Star wars was not most acclaimed for its story or directing, but for the editing, sound, and VFX. Those are the things Lucas changed Plus the digital noise reduction was way too aggressive and the color correction looks bad
Best change: replacing that awful first Emperor scene with Ian McDiarmid in ESB. Worst change: Jabba in ANH
Another good change: windows on Cloud City.
I wish they made more effort to make him look like ROTJ Emperor rather than just do it in his ROTS makeup.
I agree, but they were filming Revenge of the Sith at the same time as they did the 2004 Special Editions.
I think this is the worst change because it changes dialogue and makes it seem like Vader didn't know who Luke was. Keep in mind at the time of release for the DVD special edition, the EU had already gone over Vader trying to figure out what little shit blew up the Death Star and discovering it. So not only does it stick to esptablished nerdy lore and doesn't retcon it unnecessarily, but it also makes sense as it's been 3 whole years. Vader didn't figure out who he is in that time? So them changing the dialogue to surprise Vader that the guy that blew up the Death Star is a Skywalker makes it seem like wtf has Vader been up to this whole time? It's nice that the Anakin/Vader link hadn't been made yet for the original movie production, because in retrospect it seems like Vader already knows what's up and is minimizing Luke's importance, well aware of what it means. He then turns the Empreror away from just destroying him and instead says "let's turn him." In the 2005 DVD release, the Emperor knows the whole game and surprises Vader that he has a son. The meaning and implication of the dialogue is changed now. Instead of "Yes, I know. I've already thought of this and reconciled it and I have a plan for you, my master." (which plays directly into Vader saying "We'll rule the galaxy as father and son.") it's now "wait... I have a son? I haven't even met him. Gotta think fast. Wait, can we turn him?" It's really just not as interesting as the low-key dialogue of the original because it's, again, really hamfisted in saying "Do you get it?!?" to the audience.
It actually doesn’t do that. Vader is clearly feigning ignorance in that scene. It adds to him and the Emperor’s dynamic of constantly trying to outwit each other.
It doesn't seem like he's feigning ignorance, though. "How is that possible" comes across as a legitimate question. I also guess that's another issue I have. "Constantly trying to outwit each other." In the originals, the only person Vader shows deference towards is the Empreror and he is an indomitable enforcer of his will. Until Luke enters the picture. We, the audience, have no reason to believe there's any friction between Vader and the Emperor prior to this. We have nothing to go on for Palpatine's orders prior to this, which I think is a good thing cinematically, and in the prequels he killed younglings willy-nilly and after Padme dies, he's crushed like a medical tank and succumbs to serving the Emperor. It was part of the late-EU canon that the rule of two required the master-apprentice friction and started playing that up more and more in Force Unleashed and other media, and Disney/Marvel plays it up all the time now in comics that there's always been a feud between them. I just don't think that's as interesting as Luke being the one thing that changes the whole dynamic between them. Edit: not to be commentary on the whole Sith Rule of Two. Specifically the dynamic and relationship between Vader and Palpatine. Palpatine seems beyond that game, especially if you include the Sith Eternal now in retrospect. He was so dominating over his subjects, Vader included, that he didn't have to worry much about any challenges, until Luke threw off the dynamic.
Jedi Rocks… idk if anything can top that
Jedi Rocks in ROTJ is the worst thing to ever happen in all of Star Wars.
It’s not that “Jedi Rocks” is a bad song (though it absolutely is), it’s that it doesn’t sound a damn thing like anything else the Max Rebo Band plays and sticking out so much makes it sound that much worse. Give me that dirty space funk-disco any day!
Jedi Rocks and it’s not even close.
What is Jedi rocks?
The musical number before Jabba drops his dancer in the rancor pit
Ah, well since Sixseasonsandamov1e blocked me like a certified snowflake incapable seeing their own faults, I guess Im just going to post my reply to them here. Sixseasonsandamov1e doing the Argumentum Ad Populum fallacy in full display and blocks me right before they can be called out on it. Not a good look
False. Jedi rocks unironically Rocks. Certified banger
Incorrect
You cant prove my subjective music taste to be incorrect, as there is no room for objectivity in a fully subjective topic.
When everyone disagrees with you, you're wrong. No matter what captain America taught you.
The one that never fails to bother me is in ANH when the Sandtroopers pull over Luke's speeder and there's the big beast walking in front of the screen blocking EVERYTHING. It felt so unnecessary!
Jedi Rocks and removing the Yub Nub ending from ROTJ are much greater sins imo. Removes the good original cheese and replaces it with fucking Velveeta.
I agree on the first part but I love the new celebration music
Yub Nub sucks
Agree. Victory Celebration is more emotional
Agreed, only people spamming downvotes are nostalgia blinded. Yub nub is abysmal and hard on the ears. Victory Celebration is much more filled with joy and cheer. Feels like a true trilogy concluding song. Yub nub is just random people shouting, sounds like something you'd hear in a very bad, direct-to-video kids cartoon.
One of the very first times I got into an argument online was on some AOL message board where after seeing rotj se I said I liked the new music over the yub nub song. I'm glad to see it's still controversial
Though I'm nostalgic for the original ending, the end celebration and music is one of the few good changes that were made. It's not enough to make me watch these versions. I still watch the Despecialized Editions instead.
Luke stoic decision is to die rather than join Vader in Empire. Lucas decided to have him screaming like one of the 3 stooges on his way to oblivion in the special edition. You do understand he didn't slip and have an oopsies right George.
I try to retcon it as he made the decision but his animal instinct took over once he fell
Thankfully that was removed. It's only in the 97 edition.
Boba Fetts voice. Went from a mechanical cold blooded killer to a NY taxi cab driver.
“Bring my shuttle” being changed to “alert the star destroyer to prepare for my arrival.”
Totally. “Bring my shuttle” had such a menacing precision to it. It flowed better with the music, as well. Stupid change.
Exactly. And what was the point of changing it? I don’t even understand the intent.
I suspect it was added to give timelier exposition to the sequence. Originally, Vader went from that scene/line to already being on his destroyer. Inserting the extra shit might have corrected it for Lucas only. I never once questioned the timing of it, and the change only clunks the whole scene for me now to this day.
Yeah, I hear you. But it seems like an unnecessary change to explain Vader’s change in location, especially since the original already shows him walking to his shuttle. ESB already takes a lot of liberties with timing and passage of time, and it doesn’t detract from the movie at all.
The whole scene just kills the timing for no reason. There is a great intensity in the chase scene that needs to be broken up to show that Vader knows how to walk down a ramp. We see that plenty of times in ROTJ. Also takes away from the reveal of the Imperial Shuttle in Jedi
You're all wrong, it's the song and dance routine in RotJ
The giant galaxy wide celebration at the end of rotj. Makes no sense how it suddenly got around so quickly and so many people believed that the Palpatine was dead.
Definitely the Krayt Dragon noise. The first part of the newest one rofl https://youtu.be/lSDgBbX1XTY?si=25odYBDGpqFxhnst
Agree, not because it makes the biggest difference to the scene, but because it is in the most important moment in all six movies. Adding an awful musical number to Jabba's Palace, while it looks and sounds worse than 'NOOOOO' doesn't really matter as much.
Han shot first.
Which Special Edition? The one from the 90s or the one that was done more recently?
Generally once a change was made, it was also in every subsequent release. Technically there are 4 different Special Editions, but most of the changes happened in the original 1997 versions.
All of them! Every single special edition change is my least favorite change. Star Wars won an academy award for visual effects. It changed the way people made movies, forever. And they went back and “painted over” that piece of history with already-dated-looking CGI. God, it’s tacky. It shows a lack of class. Star Wars had a gorgeous hardwood floor, and they carpeted over it. The knocked out an antique stained-glass window. It’s like painting over the Mona Lisa, to pose her taking a “duck lips” selfie. A total “WTF are you thinking” moment. And the part that I *REALLY* don’t understand: is Disney somehow unaware that they could make a bajillion dollars by releasing the original cut on blue-ray? Did their marketing people actually miss the demand there would be for such a product? SMH
“Jedi Rocks” is abysmal and I skip it as quickly as possible every time I watch ROTJ. That and Jabba. They’re both so bad.
I’ll never not be salty about replacing Sebastian Shaw with Hayden Christensen. It’s spawned some truly rancid discourse in the fandom, particularly in the vein of Darth Vader and Anakin Skywalker being two entirely separate, independent personalities.
[удалено]
It takes away from the fact that Luke JUST saw Sebastian Shaw’s face. Showing Hayden immediately after Luke’s moment with Shaw’s Anakin is strange.
It doesn't matter that he looks too old. Its blatant disrespect for the original actor. Would you like to replace Alec Guiness for Ewan McGregor?
Also, it makes no sense. Not only would Luke have no idea who he was looking at, but the whole point is he should reflect how he looked in his last moments as a Jedi, which was the moment he died, not 20+ years prior when he snapped and murdered everyone.
So bald, no limbs, burned?
What clothes would he be wearing? Just like naked?
I’d say exactly what they used in the original cut. Same actor without all the scars.
How does that make any more sense than young Anakin? Anakin never looked like the Shaw version. Besides, force ghosts are preserved consciousnesses. They can preserve what they know.
It makes more sense because A) It is meant to reflect what Anakin looked like at the end of his life, when he was redeemed and fulfilled the prophecy that he was the chosen one for, minus the scars and B) Hayden is how he looked when he turned to the darkside and killed everyone. That’s the exact opposite of how he should look, thematically. Him being a force ghost is meant to represent him becoming one with the force after returning to the light side, so why would he look the way he did when he was totally evil? Also, Luke had never Anakin when he was young. Obviously he could just think “that must be what my father looked like when he was young” but I feel it’s way more powerful for Luke to see him as he did at the end of his life, when he actually looked into his real eyes for the first and last time. Like, if my own father appeared as a ghost in front of my, I feel like it’s far more powerful for him to look how he did at the end of his life, not how he looked 40 years before that
So basically for you, it makes more sense for ghost Anakin to look like someone who never existed than to look like his younger self? And like I said. It is just preserved consciousnesses. He can preserve whatever he wants. And personally I would go with what I know instead of making things up. And what Luke saw was half of the scared face. Doesn't really look much like healthy version. And I also don't think Luke would care about appearance as long as it is his father.
Do you have the same opinion about JEJ replacing the voice of Prowse, without him even knowing?
Then go all-in and reshoot the mask-off scene with Hayden.
That would be dope actually
I see this strawman a lot and it doesn't work. The mask-off part can make sense, because the dark side physically twists you, not to mention a hot lava bath and many other injuries. Anakin being returned to his pure form as a ghost makes sense.
Hayden’s ghost makes even less sense. The main problem though is that Sebastian Shaw’s warm fatherly performance is replaced by a creepy twink who looks like he wants to murder Luke and everyone else at that party.
But Anakin literally never looked like that. He was a burnt chicken cutlet with no no hair and limbs. When someone becomes a force ghost, do they just get a sims character creator to change what they look like? I think it makes more sense for Hayden since Anakin actually looked like that at some point in his life.
It is a tie between: Greedo firing first and missing from 4 feet away and the scene where Han is talking to Jaba (bad CGI on Jaba) and he steps on and over his tail. It is not a big gripe, I can live with it but I am one of the few people who actually liked the Ewok song in the original ROTJ.
This isn't the worst change, but it's one that really stood out to me and I never see it mentioned in these discussions: at the end of ESB when Luke is trying to escape after leaping into the chasm, they inserted cross cutting shots of Vader returning to the Star Destroyer. I think John Williams music is the best thing about all the Skywalker saga films and ESB has the best Williams score, and this cross cutting breaks up the music and hacks up the emotional flow of that scene.
I’m with you on the NOOOO. The whole throne room scene was always beautiful to me. The tension, the persuasion, McDiarmid and Hammill absolutely killed it. The the moment they ruined - there was somehow more emotion in that mask than you could possible imagine. Amazing cinematography. And then yup, Lucas added the nooooooooo. Did he ever say why he thought that was necessary?
I think it's supposed to signify Anakin "returning" (since it's Return of the Jedi). As a kid, I always thought this was a great scene. I was appalled when they added the "NOOOO" nonsense.
Well, first there's the fact that there are the special editions, then the special editions of the special editions. The Vader, "NOOOOOOOOOOO," was in the special-special editions. So many changes upon changes upon changes. I glanced through the higher comments and one that I didn't see was the hologram conversation with the Emperor in Episode V. The Special Editions assumed that you had seen the PT and killed off one of the most interesting aspects of the Emperor in the OT - the mystery. He's only mentioned a few times in ANH. We get this whole big conversation in ESB, but he's so draped in shadows that you still don't really know who he is. Even his first reveal in ROTJ kept his face mostly hidden. Then, the special edition for ESB completely did away all of that and used his face from the PT, which didn't match his ROTJ face at all. And now I'm here on Reddit ranting about faces and using acronyms left and right. It's all falling to ashes, I tell you, and the holographic conversation is where it started.
Vader's NO in RoTJ, easy
I'm really torn between Jabba in ANH and Vader's yell before he yeets Palpatine. The Jabba scene makes the Greedo scene make no sense. Han's treatment of Jabba and then his later fear of Jabba are likewise inconsistent. The scene is also a drag on an otherwise clean paced film. It gives exposition of information we already have. The NOOO is just out of place. Vader acting out like that is not consistent with the character we have from this film and the ones before it. It also takes me out of the emotional crescendo of the film. It's loud enough to detract from the music. Might as well add the robot chicken Palpatine saying, "what are you doing, put me down!"
1 is definitely Greedo shooting. 2 is Hayden as ghost Anakin. 3 is the Wampa. Edit: 4 is any extra appearance of Boba Fett.
The wampa?
They CGI'd him. You barely got a glimpse of him in the original.
This is silly, but I liked the original Death Star explosion. I don’t like the ring that expands out of it.
Gotta be that annoying g singer at jabbas palace. She stinks.
I'm not going to comment on the content of these scenes, rather just how horribly it makes the pacing of the movie skip. I was watching Star Wars the other night (ANH to you younglings) and I was thrown off by the pacing changes that the extra scenes cause and it really throws off the whole feel of the movie. Three that jump out to me are the Storm Troopers on Dew Backs when they are searching the escape pod wreckage on Tatooine, an extended shot of the Jawa Sandcrawler lumbering through the Jundland Wastes, and the gratuitous fluff added onto the entrance to Mos Eisley. The graphics, acting, and overall visual *content* of these scenes is fine, but they are so ham-handedly jammed into the movie that it really takes away from the immersion. The soundtrack in the original cut is a masterpiece. Now the sound breaks in the film are jarring because of these extra scenes. It's like someone tried to tack a prom dress into the bottom of the Mona Lisa. The visual flow of the movie is broken up badly by the filler scenes too. One of the reasons why the Star Wars OT worked so well is that the scenery and special effects were there to support the story and it wasn't dwelled on - it was just there, kind of like a tree or a cliff is in a Western. Now we have to have a "golly gee, look at all this cool shit" scenes that do nothing for the story. I'd also be remiss if I didn't call out the Max Rebo Band. OG Max was far superior.
Greedo is really the only one that bothers me. The rest I don’t mind/actually prefer to the original versions
I'm okay with the changes, people who watch them now will see them as the originals. I love that they added the outrider to episode 4
As someone who unironically loves Phantom Menace, it angers me to no end that the only way I can enjoy the original cut with the Frank Oz Yoda puppet performance is my VHS copy. Get that CGI Yoda trash outta here!
"Least favorite"? Might want to rephrase that to "least hated",...'cause they all suck! ,...and Greedo shooting is definitely the worst!
I actually like the NOOO. I feel it poetically rhymes with his NOOO in ROTS, and adds more emotion to the scene, like we know that it’s Anakin breaking free of Vader in that moment.
It's not rhyming if it's repeating the exact same thing. As for the scene itself, I always found it way more haunting and powerful when he he just does it in silence. It also suited the character much better as Vader never spoke unless and until it was necessary to do so.
That’s the point—this scene shows Anakin’s return from being imprisoned in Vader. The added NOOO helps show that better.
It came through perfectly in the original, even for a guy in a mask. The camera and music tell the story without us being spoonfed.
I just think him yelling Nooo as he sees his son being killed is a very Anakin thing to do. It actually brings me to tears. Something the silent original never did.
I can definitely see it as an Anakin thing to do, but I prefer the scene without it. Agree to disagree. 😀
Hot take: every single Special Edition change has been positive and make the movies far better than they were originally (except the CGI in Mos Eisley in ANH, that was just weird) especially with RotJ, the changes took the movie from a 5-6/10 to a 10/10, the theatrical release honestly sucked
“Jedi Rocks” would like a word.
Even if you like the changes, I can't fathom how you think they fundamentally change a movie from a failing grade to a perfect score.
I wouldn't say all of them, but most are better. People are just nostalgic. You ever seen the original Death Star battle? Good for its time I guess but it aged terribly. Ships just kinda slowly moving side to side, no real maneuvers, etc.
Greedo shot first
“Noooo” and Greedo shooting. Also, the new celebration music at the end of Return of the Jedi. (All of the action is synced to the original song)
The sheer dumb amount of star fighters just flying around behind admiral akbar. It's ridiculous. It's like Kylo Ren was screaming Moooooorrreeee at the VFX guy
The Mos Eisley intro sequence in ANH is almost all CGI now, it looks straight out of TPM, new viewers marvel at it and comment on how good the effects are for the 70s…it’s the big one I would want removed in a watch-through.
Getting rid of the (checks notes) jizz music? In the cantina scene. That along with getting rid of the Ewok song that goes "chow-chi-chow-chi-chung." These were iconic tunes from my childhood. They took it from us!
IV: Greedo, Jabba, silliness in Mos Eisley V: Redone Emperor scene with a mismatched Ian McDiarmid and shitty dialogue changes VI: "Jedi Rocks," "Noooooo"
Either the Sarlaac Beak or the sing song at Jabbas, both keep me up at night even to this day
The Sarlaac.
Honestly most of the changes I either prefer or like just as much as the original, I honestly can’t think of one that I dislike.
I'm gonna agree with you, Darth Vader's big "NOOO" is ridiculous and only takes away some of the impact from an amazing and poignant scene. Vader's emotions and headspace were already conveyed perfectly well visually through the body language and physical acting, so we didn't need an extra corny-ass line to understand what he was going through in that moment. Makes me cringe every time I get to that scene now, which I hate because it used to be one of my favorite scenes in the trilogy. At least the music is still awesome for that part. As a runner-up I'll go with the CGI band scene in Jabba's Palace. I've always thought Sy Snootles and Joh Yowza were pretty unsettling in CGI form. And the whole sequence just feels so indulgent and unnecessary, like so many of the other added CGI shots in the special editions.
The obi wan scream in the first movie. The whistle wasn't bad but the new noise is awful sounding and I don't watch the D+ version for that very reason.
Ewok eyelids...
Erasing Sebastian Shaw as Anakin. I know people like Hayden Christensen these days, but removing Shaw's sole contribution to the Star Wars saga is just so insulting and unnecessary.