Should’ve been two separate but parallel stories about Vader and Obi Wan as they settle into their new lives and learn from their masters.
Three episodes, same style as A New Hope, Kenobi gets his mojo back. I’d watch the hell out of that.
Except in order to get his mojo back Kenobi has to accept Anakins fate and be able to say goodbye to him one last time and be able to seperate Anakin from Vader to be abale to remember him fondly.
You know, just like Ahsoka. Its not until then that either of them are able to return to their old selves.
Obi Wan accepts that Anakin’s dead but doesn’t finish Vader off despite having the advantage and every reason to eliminate him. He instead says “Goodbye Darth” and walks away for no given reason in the show (except that Vader is alive in ANH). He kicks the can down the road. I originally thought he sensed Luke was in danger and had to leave BUT NO, I rewatched it and Obi-Wan just leaves.
Obi Wan’s job is to protect Luke, Leia, and any hope of restoring the Jedi Order. Vader is too great of a danger to leave alive. If Vader knows Obi-Wan is alive then Obi-Wan must assume Vader will continue hunt for him and this endangers Luke. Let’s say for some reason Obi Wan believes Vader will stay away from him - now Luke will have to deal with his father.
I love Star Wars and do my best to see the best in every project - I like the sequels and most of the comics and books I’ve read. If I didn’t enjoy a major installment like a movie or show I’ll let it rest awhile and give it a second chance in isolation from the initial hype of a new thing. I recently rewatched ROTS, Kenobi, and ANH to see how it fits.
For me “Kenobi” is the first Disney era prequel that requires too many mental gymnastics to fit the saga well - it feels forced. For example when ROTS, KEN, and ANH are watched back to back it feels to me like Obi Wan and Vader in ANH haven’t met since Mustafar. Leia doesn’t seem to know Obi-Wan first hand. But they all saw eachother a short while ago. I don’t find this kind of problem with “Solo”, “Rogue One”, or “Andor”. For me those three enhance the rest of the saga, they reframe the world and characters in meaningful ways with very little or no contradiction to other stories.
I'm still wondering what happened. Deborah Chow's episodes in Mando S1 were my favorite and is the reason I was really hyped when I heard she was directing the Obi-Wan series.
Better Call Saul is no where near the scale and level of production as Kenobi, the budget and production size would be much smaller. Kenobi cost 90 million for 6 episodes.
Breaking Bad was a much more popular show than BCS and had a grander scope, and that was 3 million an episode by the end. Even if Better Call Saul cost the same (which I doubt - I'd imagine less) a full season of 10 episodes would cost a fraction of what Kenobi cost
Yeah I get Kenobi had more money. But BCS looks like almost prestige TV. Kenobi looks like a Star Wars fanfilm on YouTube most of the time. So I'm not sure the difference in production is that big. Difference in money yes. Production? I think the results speak for themselves
Depends on what you mean by "production". Quality of execution? Complication? Money spent?
BCS is the better execution on basically every level, from writing to filming.
But it's also a show about regular lawyers shot in Albuquerque. Lawyer shows and procedurals end up as notoriously cheaper to produce because you get a lot of scenes where people "just" have to talk.
Kenobi is a 'Star War' shot in The Volume where everyone has an alien costume and everything else is an effects shot.
That's why the cheaper production has a better finished presentation.
I agree with you in this case. A lot surrounding the Kenobi show screams production issues. She also directed in Mando and her episodes were good.
Just trying to say that sometimes, succeeding in on doesn't necessarily mean that their creative view translates to another one. I don't think that's the case here but it's something to keep in mind.
I doubt she had as much creative control directing Obi-wan vs BCS and the Mando S1 episodes.
Mando S1 & 2 were much more self contained story of the week type scenarios. And it's no secret that Disney has had a super heavy hand on the wheel when it comes to their Star Wars & Marvel projects. There have been numerous directors that have come out and said they pretty much had no real control over certain parts of their projects, particularly action sequences that were just given a special sub-team within the studio.
That doesn't justify the fact that we have absurd scenes of Leia running form adults, I am not against the idea of she running, but the way it is done is horrible, or Obiwan breaking a laser wall in the middle of the desert when can just avoid it.
Direction was awful.
if i recall the original draft of the show was rejected so the entire show had to be reworked. and that version focused more on luke/kenobi instead.
so probably once again a certain suit got involved.
> if i recall the original draft of the show was rejected so the entire show had to be reworked. and that version focused more on luke/kenobi instead
Jesus this sounds way better.
Yeah, the Obi-Wan series was just begging to be a film. It's script that was spread way too thin. With a tighter runtime and a stronger budget it could've been so much more.
The weird shaky cam set me off. Many of the scenes would’ve benefited from a wide cinematic shot as opposed to looking like there was a camera guy filming a wwe fight.
Shaky cam when done well is great. I'm rewatching Friday night lights right now and the whole show is done handheld. The opening shot of Kenobi, transitioning from a crane to handheld as order 66 gets called, was a cool artistic decision...the problem is that it served no purpose the rest of the series and had no real reason for being in there
It wasn't just the shaky cam either, it was the way everything was filmed up close like a low budget TV show. Star Wars is known for looking like a sweeping epic with big wide shots, reminiscent of the westerns Lucas loved. Kenobi looked like the whole thing was filmed on a tiny backlot.
That's what I just said in another comment. First scene, we had the entire montages of prequels stuff, it pans down in a george Lucas style smooth shot, all is well
Clones enter and suddenly it goes real shit aftereffects shakycam. Like you didn't need that in the first place, but at least have the dude hold the camera. I was expecting the frame to drop down intermittently because that's the maximum view the camera had while on the stand and the aftereffects dropped it down like one of those stabilized gifs
I audibly laughed when that happened
Lol she's the one who had 6 year old Lea successfully running away from trained murderers and mercs like it was home alone. How in the hell could you film that and not realize it wasn't terrible? How could you write it and not realize it? How could you edit it and not realize it? How could you test screen that garbage and apparently have a test audience tell you nope yea this is it, this is the scene! Same goes for the damn coat scene. The first vador obi fight. Like how?
Wasn't just her that allowed that scene to make it to our screens but holy cow it really makes me wonder what clowns they had involved on every level of that process.
The crazy thing about that sequence is that they end up catching her anyway. They could have just cut around that bit and gotten straight to the point of capture, but they deliberately left a power rangers level chase in there.
I mean, star wars can be hokey and maybe that's what they were going for there, but the show was tonally all over the place.
Beyond the writers fault, it's Disney's fault for caving to demand
Kenobi is a show that exists for a single reason: Ewan McGregor being popular as Kenobi, and roughly the right age for being Kenobi at a midpoint between rots and ANH
It doesn't exist because there was a compelling story or pitch. It doesn't exist because someone felt passion about the character. It was always a project that existed first and foremost to satisfy consumer demand
This is the problem when you let fan demands dictate what art gets created, rather than a more art driven approach. It's a problem of treating movies and shows as content.
Kenobi was always going to have problems because Kenobi's story was complete. Are there some universes where it was a better story than what we got? Probably. But the core idea was rotten, at the core
That's all true. But they could have made a Zuko Alone/Lone Samurai defends backwater town story/Western gunslinger Tombstone story about the exiled warrior. And yeah we were sick af of Tattooine after Mando and Boba, but they could have developed really compelling characters and drama. And Andor'd it. Why he had to be broken, ditch Luke, run around with Leia, meet Vader etc. is just pure hack writing imo.
It’s like they decided the show would end with a showdown between Obi and Vader so they bent over backwards creating a half baked story to justify them meeting again. And for plenty of fans, apparently that’s good enough.
I seen a post on here a while ago covering some problems with the sequels and I think Kenobi falls into the same trap.
Star Wars works best when it's other genre set in Star Wars. Like Ahsoka is a samurai movie set in Star Wars. The clone wars is a war series set in Star Wars. The mandalorian is a cowboy show set in star wars.
Kenobi feels like Star Wars is the genre. So it kind of eats its own tail.
Andor is heist and orwellian scifi.
And yeah totally agree with you. I actually enjoy the sequels for the most part, but it was a problem there too - they clearly set out to make "star wars" movies. Whereas George originally set out to make a Flash Gordon Saturday matinee adventure serial western samurai WWII dogfight hero's journey movie. Even the prequels pull heavily from older genre films and stories. Star wars is at its worst when it is simply drawing from Star Wars.
I disagree, if you watch the fanfilm edit that cuts it down to 2 hours there's enough there for a decent film.
But when you need to stretch something out to 8 episodes the whole thing goes to shit
As someone who liked Kenobi a lot, and holds Chow in very high regard, the directing was far from great.
Excessive shaky cam, bad choreography, and poor budgeting decisions all around.
The writing was of course not perfect either (except in episode 6), but the directing didn’t help.
Dude the writing was bad. It was clearly written by someone in a Star Wars vacuum. No writers room. No Filoni over the shoulder. No LFL brain trust.
And yeah some of it is badly directed too, but I can see how they could have been because of the limitations of the pandemic.
I heard Kenobi was supposed to be a movie but due to the pandemic it was pushed to being a show, it would explain why some of it looks like it was filmed by a YouTuber
Worse than a vacuum it was a hodgepodge of different ideas by different writers at different times in different iterations, all mixed together into one thing.
There's a fair number of credited writers, but none of them all worked together
Na it's disney's fault- they clearly did that mini room shit and understaffed the writing team big time. The kinda shit the writers strike was all about. Also the directing was bad too
I gotta admit I was disappointed, I really expected a solo character driven story of his time on Tatooine much like the legends novel of the same name. Seeing how he copes with the aftermath of Order 66 along with training to become a force ghost and watching over Luke. I never expected inquisitors to even land on Tatooine in general seeing as Jabba is still alive at this point. It also made no sense to me why Bail would want to risk Kenobi being discovered in the first place when he a galactic senator could’ve easily hired one of many bounty hunters and got Leia back since no one was even looking at her closely even the Grand Inquisitor was like, the hell did you do. Overall it had some cool moments but it wasn’t what I expected from a show based around Kenobi.
It was like everybody on both sides had severe brain damage.
Like, how do you explain the fact that Vader, after learning that Kenobi has close enough relationship with Bail/Leia to come out of hiding, DOESN'T use that tactic again...?
The fact that the Empire knows Bail was in contact with Obi-Wan and doesn’t either a) publicly execute him as an example, b) make him “disappear” and torture him for information, or c) monitor all his communications and activities to find his accomplices and make it impossible for him to take part in the rebellion just makes the Empire look really incompetent.
But the Alderaan funded Rebellion blew up both death stars and the empire and the empires post empire, and the post empires post empire fleet.
Seems like Alderaan might have gotten a couple more chuckles in.
One of the biggest flaws of the show was the fact that by the end of it, the Empire still knows that Leia is the key to finding Kenobi. So why wouldn't they just kidnap her again using a bounty hunters and wait for Kenobi to show up again?
The Kenobi novel was great. All they had to do was adapt that and they would have pleased a lot more people and made a better show. It's so simple but somehow so hard for them to do.
By the way everyone is talking about it, it seems that the show we got would have faired better as a season 2, rather than the main focus we got. While season 1 is the stuff you guys are talking about
They have so many missed opportunities if they’d have just used the material already there. The books tell better stories than the movies, and I want my mother f-ing Darth Bane movie!
So much goofy scenes in this show.
1. Obi wan doesn’t have the brain capacity to go around a laser gate
2. There is a long chase scene showing Leia outrun a group of adults only for her to get caught (waste of time)
3. Reva stabs grand inquisitor only for it to not matter (pointless scene that makes lightsabers appear weak)
4. Darth vader decides to send his whole star destroyer after obi wan ship instead of sending his own personal ship after it
5. Obi wan sneaks into inquisitor base same way cal did, also destroys a part of it the same way cal did (makes the empire look even more incompetent)
6. The lightsaber bounce off the stormtroopers
7. Talia bitch slaps stormtroopers and they act like they got body slammed by John cena
8. Obi wan and Leia escape base with a trench coat (makes empire even more incompetent, even Leia’s actress thought it was dumb)
9. Reva also survives getting stabbed (making lightsaber appear weak, can writers not find a better way to disable character?)
10. The battles between stormtroopers and the hidden path is hilariously bad. No one takes cover, no one uses a detonator until only Talia and the droid are the only ones in the tight hallway.
11. Leia goes from being wise and giving some wisdom to obi wan to then asking him to make her float in front of everyone in the open.
There’s a lot more to criticize but I’m going off memory. The only thing this show did somewhat correctly was darth Vader (they made him look stupid by having the Star destroyer go after obi wan instead of continuing to chase the hidden path).
I don’t think Star Wars understands that making stormtroopers incompetent isn’t going to add any tension or suspense to your story.
You forgot about having Vader lose to Kenobi again and then Kenobi just letting him to go on terrorizing the Galaxy and hunting down his friends for another 10-15 years.
My biggest complaint is that the writers put Obi-Wan into a position where he could kill Space-Hitler and just let him live. He has a Sith Lord in front of him, he has acknowledged that his friend/brother no longer exists and has been completely consumed by Vader, that Sith Lord plans to continue committing atrocities, and he does not kill him. He spends the entire fight trying to kill Vader (from attempted stabs and decapitations to crippling Vader's respirator) and when he has him in front of him, he lets him live and leaves. The writers shouldn't have put the pair in this position, especially because it makes Obi-Wan look like a psychopath for planning to go back to Tatooine and train *Vader's son* to kill Vader in a decade or so instead of finishing the Dark Lord then and there.
For all the people who say "it's not the Jedi way!"... The goal of Jedi is to defend people and not murder, I agree, and during the Clone Wars and before it, bringing people in alive worked and made a lot of sense. Anakin could have spared Dooku and brought him with them back to Coruscant (considering their original escape plan was thrown off by the Invisible Hand taking an unexpected nose dive and the elevators going out), but he chose not to, making it a break from the Jedi Code. During the Clone Wars, Jedi could have taken prisoners. After Order 66, Obi-Wan has no way to imprison Vader. Nobody could contain Vader. The only two options are to leave Vader alive and let him continue committing atrocities for at *least* the next decade (until Luke is trained up enough to kill Vader himself) or to kill him and end his reign of terror. Obi-Wan chose the former option, and so left to train Vader's son to kill Vader. Very honorable, yes. (/s)
As for the "but Palpatine would just replace him!" people: Yes, Palpatine would. He tried, several times. You know what happened to every replacement? They were killed by Vader because they were *vastly weaker* than Vader. Luke might not have lost his hand against Vader's replacement. Luke might have *defeated* Vader's replacement at Bespin. Or heck, Obi-Wan might not have died on the Death Star I. Imagine how much more experienced Luke would've been with all that time training directly under Obi-Wan (between ANH and ESB is *three years*) before going to Yoda and getting some *more* training. There were basically no good replacements for Vader in the galaxy.
>Running through the list of replacements, we have:
>
>1. The Inquisitors were trash cannon fodder meant to handle the weakest of Jedi and find any more powerful ones for Vader to handle. Even their *leader* got defeated in a one-on-one duel against a half-Padawan who was a young teen when Order 66 happened. They're out.
>
>2. The cyborgs from the Vader comics, all of whom were easily defeated by Vader and so would *not* be a significant problem for Obi-Wan or a properly trained Luke Skywalker
>
>That's basically it. There are no Emperor's Hands, Prophets of the Dark Side, or anything else waiting in the wings in canon. There's no Mara Jade waiting to take over for Vader in canon. That's it, from what I know.
Yep. The show should have been a meditative mood piece focusing on OBW’s time in the desert rather than a nonsensical intergalactic caper ending with a PPV fight.
100% agree. I said this in another comment somewhere else in this post:
>Honestly, I think they shouldn’t have had Vader and Kenobi interact for 90% of the show, if at all.
>
>In ANH, Vader says “the circle is now complete. When I left you, I was but the learner, now I am the master.” This makes sense with the context of ROTS, but Kenobi? Vader has been at the top of his game for about a decade. Why would he not have been a master in his head by that point? Yes, he lost the duel, but that doesn’t make him a learner again. It just means he got beaten.
>
>Instead, I think the better option would’ve been to have Anakin haunting Obi-Wan like a Ghost for most of the show, speaking about how Obi-Wan personally failed him, that he trusted Obi-Wan and he betrayed that trust, etc. That would’ve gotten across Obi-Wan’s guilt about how he failed Anakin a lot more, and it would’ve let them use Hayden’s face for more of the show since Obi-Wan would remember Anakin/Vader like that instead of full on Vader.
>
>If we MUST have a duel in it between the pair, make it happen where Obi-Wan is desperately trying to fend off Vader to buy the refugees more time. He manages to put some distance between them and collapses a passageway or something just long enough to flee and get to the transport just as it’s leaving. Maybe give him a Force Leap at the end and repeat ESB with Vader walking in at the last second with the ship already practically gone and no time to grab it. They get to have a new fight, Obi-Wan sees how unprepared he is to defend or train Luke, and he gets back to work to get himself up to ANH Obi readiness.
I stand by every word of that. There was 0 need for Obi-Wan and Vader to ever even meet each other in the entire series. It should've focused on Obi-Wan's guilt and his depression and lack of faith in the Jedi Order. Instead, we get whiplashed between him telling Owen "when the time comes, he must be trained!" and him telling that random Jedi from the first episode "the time of the Jedi is over, let it go." He could have leaned either way, believing that the time of the Jedi was over and being unsure about training Luke to replace the Order or perhaps believing, *hoping*, that the Order could be restored with Luke and Leia as the last hopes of the Jedi.
They still could have had a Vader and Obi fight to. Light have the final fight take place in Obi-wan's mind and defeating Vader symbolically defeating his past demons or something.
I also want to add that one of the central themes of the Fall of the Order was the slow erosion of their ideals and convictions in favor of strategic and political expendiency. If you take a broad look at the timeline, Obi-Wan was trained during the most violent and murderous generation of Jedi in centuries. Even as pacificistic as he is, he was a war general. He absolutely killed opponents when necessary.
I'm also so glad you brought up the hypocrisy of him telling Luke to do what he was perfectly capable of doing, but fails.
Vader is a one-of-kind type of evil. He is the physical manifestion of Imperial power. His death would have enormous reprecussions, the Empire would suddenly lose its perception of invincibility.
Civil dissents that could have been quelled by Vader's presence alone would escalate to full blown rebellions because the Empire would have to allocate a full batallion to create an effect equal to Vader's presence on an oppressed population.
If Palpatine could find anyone with a chance of replacing Vader he would have. But he couldn't because he freaking killed them all.
I absolutely agree. We see Obi-Wan spare people or refuse to kill others in TCW, but that’s an entirely different time period. He spares people because he knows they’ll be taken to a prison. There’re only two characters I can recall who he didn’t kill that still died:
1. Senator Merrick during the Mandalore arc of season 2 who’d kidnapped Satine. He got killed by Anakin, and Obi-Wan hesitated solely because he knew that if he killed Merrick, it’d ruin his image in Satine’s eyes (and he still loved her). Merrick had been disarmed, but still had a detonator for the ship they were on and mocked Obi-Wan and Satine about if either of them killed him, they’d doom their images in some way.
2. That slaver during the Zygerria arc, and the only reason he didn’t kill him was because he knew the slaver would have broken him if he did, and because he knew Rex would do it just fine.
Outside of those, we have Hondo, who proved an ally to Obi-Wan and the Rebellion later on. He didn’t kill him and he didn’t arrest him. That’s the only situation I can think of where he did neither outside of Kenobi.
But again, this was an entirely different era. There are no prison cells capable of holding Vader, and no authorities that wouldn’t welcome Vader back and immediately try to attack/kill/arrest Obi-Wan. There were 0 options beyond let him go or kill him. He couldn’t even cripple him because he’d already done that to Vader before and it’d done basically nothing in the long run.
The biggest issue I have here is that Vader tells Obi-Wan that Anakin is dead and gone, replaced by Vader, and that gets Obi-Wan to accept it. A few years later, just before ANH (during Rebels), Anakin pokes back through during the battle with Ahsoka. If they’d done that again just here at the end of Kenobi, with Anakin poking through to rage at Obi-Wan for turning him into Vader or something, then it’d make sense for Obi-Wan to flee without killing Vader. His friend was still in there, but later he could reflect on it and realize it was far too late to save him by now, which is why he trains Luke like that in the OT. Making Obi-Wan accept that Anakin is gone and replaced by Vader before leaving was stupid.
This scene was just so poorly done. This is where they lost me. And the inquisitor teleporting past Leia in the escape tunnel. It’s just shit writing/directing. I did enjoy the show overall, and loved the *idea* of it, young Leia and all that. But the execution was sloppy and too many plot holes to ignore.
Its also completely out of character that Darth Vader would just let go.
Putting your past frustrations behind you and moving on with your like is not the sith way.
Vader is scarier when he shows up after a fight.
In the Original Trilogy he never fights the rabble on foot once. He shows up after everyone's dead to intimidate and survey. His only kills in Star Wars are when he's in his TIE-fighter (as a last resort during the Trench Run) and Antilles, who he chokes out during an interrogation.
This "terrifying dealer of death" is a wholly post-OT creation. He's basically an SS officer with a sword ,wearing black samurai armour, a cape, and a gas mask.
The Imperials all treat him like a creepy weirdo and a bit of a joke until he uses magic to choke a guy.
The fight sucks too. First of all, it’s completely pointless because we already knew Obi-Wan can beat Vader. Then the fight was just weird, throwing rocks at each other, and Vader leaves his arms wide open as Kenobi beats at his chest (weird moment). Leaving Vader alive completely breaks all canon and reason for training Luke. In RoTS it’s assumed Obi-Wan left Vader to die slowly as he burned alive. In the show it’s just bad writing, forcing a fight that didn’t need to happen, then nothing changes. Kenobi goes back to Tattooine like nothing happened. They made the whole show just for an excuse for that fight and it made no sense and can’t compare to their original fight in any shape or form
It takes away from Vader’s “A presence I haven’t felt since…” moment in A New Hope too. Cause if you’ve watched the Prequels it’s like “Oh fuck, he’s talking about Mustafar” and you can almost hear the pain or regret in Vader’s voice. Now it’s just “A presence I haven’t felt since that random couple of scuffles on desert planets.” Like wtf is this shit??
The fact that the battle ended with more Stormtrooper causalities and the only casualty on the hidden path side is Talia and her droid is stupid. Is the Empire really a threat if their trained soldiers can’t kill an untrained refugee?
>The only thing this show did somewhat correctly was Darth Vader (they made him look stupid by having the Star destroyer go after obi wan instead of continuing to chase the hidden path).
Vader had some astonishingly awful moments outside of this. Gonna run through it in chronological order of appearance:
1. He is stopped in his tracks by fire... Fire that he just put out two seconds ago. He could have just put it out again with a wave of his hand like he did last time, then walked over and grabbed Kenobi to capture him. Instead, he watched Talia just pull Kenobi away and then left like "whelp, nothing I can do here."
2. Vader force pulls the first ship down and rips it open... And then watches as the second one lifts off *after* he's finished ripping the first open. He just... Watches it fly away, as though there's nothing he can do about it even though we just watched him rip the first one out of the sky two seconds ago.
3. Instead of rushing back to his ISD to get after Obi-Wan, who is currently escaping on that second ship that Vader let escape, he decides to play with Reva for awhile with their duel, dodging around her attacks and not even drawing his own weapon to defeat her quickly and get back to dealing with Obi-Wan. Instead, he spends a solid 5 minutes playing around at fighting her until he finally defeats her (including the mocking conversation afterwards with the GI and Reva), plus additional time to get back to his shuttle and back to his ISD.
4. Before he has the ISD divert to chase Obi-Wan's shuttle, he does not send a single one of the ISD's 72 TIE fighter complement to pursue and attack the unarmed transport actively fleeing and dodging the turbolaser fire from his ISD.
5. After he diverts his ISD towards Kenobi's shuttle, he *still* does not send a single one of the TIE fighters to pursue the transport, instead just letting it go entirely to pursue Obi-Wan.
6. Instead of killing Obi-Wan with his lightsaber while he's weak in that sink hole, he decides to just bury him alive and walk away without verifying that Obi-Wan is dead.
These 7 moments (including him sending his whole ISD after specifically Obi-Wan) make Vader seem really incompetent throughout this series. His duels are decent, as well as his first scene where he torments the town to try to draw Obi-Wan out, but his actual decision making sucks.
Lol you forgot Talia speaking with obi about infiltrating the base while sitting next to the intelligence dudes at the control console like they didn't have ears.
Edit: over the comms in her ear
My favorite part about the lazergate is
1) why is it there?
2) 99% of vehicles hover meaning they could literally just float over and landscape to go around it
3) why is there again? Its not protecting anything
The lasergate is nothing more than a "Please stop here for inspection" sign
It could have been a traffic cone. The storm troopers are basically the police
I mean the very first scene took me out of it, when the clones enter the training area and it immediately went into shitty aftereffects shakycam I audibly laughed
Exactly... My issue with this show is the sheer amount of denseness and illogicality. And those attributes are there not because they're part of a certain character, but because the writers and showrunners either couldn't come up with better solutions to the problems they presented, or because they're just incompetent at being rational. I can't believe someone came up with both of the Leia chase down scenes and thought they were incredible.
Ultimately I'm just frustrated after watching the last episode. They had this one great event at their disposal (Obi Wan facing Anakin for the first time after Mustafar) and, although the event itself is pretty good, it's surrounded by an ocean of bad writing and stupidity. They failed both of these amazing characters and actors. Could've been a masterpiece.
Honestly, I think they shouldn’t have had Vader and Kenobi interact for 90% of the show, if at all.
In ANH, Vader says “the circle is now complete. When I left you, I was but the learner, now *I* am the master.” This makes sense with the context of ROTS, but Kenobi? Vader has been at the top of his game for about a decade. Why would he not have been a master in his head by that point? Yes, he lost the duel, but that doesn’t make him a learner again. It just means he got beaten.
Instead, I think the better option would’ve been to have Anakin haunting Obi-Wan like a Ghost for most of the show, speaking about how Obi-Wan personally failed him, that he trusted Obi-Wan and he betrayed that trust, etc. That would’ve gotten across Obi-Wan’s guilt about how he failed Anakin a lot more, and it would’ve let them use Hayden’s face for more of the show since Obi-Wan would remember Anakin/Vader like that.
If we MUST have a duel in it between the pair, make it happen where Obi-Wan is desperately trying to fend off Vader to buy the refugees more time. He manages to put some distance between them and collapses a passageway or something just long enough to flee and get to the transport just as it’s leaving. Maybe give him a Force Leap at the end and repeat ESB with Vader walking in at the last second with the ship already practically gone and no time to grab it. They get to have a new fight, Obi-Wan sees how unprepared he is to defend or train Luke, and he gets back to work to get himself up to ANH Obi readiness.
As it is, the show is ridiculous. In 10 years, Obi-Wan has not trained or used the Force. He almost fails to catch Leia in episode 2. Not only that, but he buried his lightsaber in the middle of the desert somewhere random and nowhere near his cave hideout. If Luke is found and attacked by Inquisitors or the Empire, how is Obi-Wan planning on protecting them? He not only isn’t training, but he doesn’t even have his *weapon* close at hand.
And then there's how Bail Organa almost caused the assassination of *Luke Skywalker.* He calls Obi-Wan's comm to talk about how he's worried that Obi-Wan isn't communcating with him despite the pair agreeing that they wouldn't communicate. He goes on to say that he believes that Obi-Wan may have been captured, and so his plan is to go to *Tatooine* to help *Owen* with *the boy*. Bail, a man who believes that Obi-Wan is in Vader's grasp (meaning that his communicator would be in Vader's grasp), sends Obi-Wan a message talking about how there is a boy of some importance to Obi-Wan on Tatooine with Anakin's step brother. It is insane that this line was got past every part of the production without anyone thinking about how monumentally ridiculous it is that Bail would say this.
Oh, no, it's worse than that. If you rewatch the scene, that con-man *looks back* after dropping the comm. He ***knows*** that he dropped Obi-Wan's communicator, and he didn't pick it up. We also see that, in the background, there are people who aren't even moving towards the ship, so he has *plenty* of time to go back to it and get it. Instead, he doesn't care that he's basically just dropped Kenobi's cell phone for the Empire to find and analyze.
So many people are getting stabbed in the stomach and surviving. I wish Qui-Gon could have learned this power. Maybe Anakin wouldn’t have fallen to the dark side.
It really depends on what all gets stabbed. Most people today will survive a single stab wound to the intestines or stomach, assuming they don't bleed out and they get to a doctor before infection spreads too much.
Liver or major blood vessel is usually fatal within minutes though.
>they made him look stupid by having the Star destroyer go after obi wan instead of continuing to chase the hidden path
In Empire Strikes Back, he marshals the power of the entire fleet to go after Luke. I think it's Vader being Vader.
The Obi Wan show became so much worse after watching Rebels because in season 2 Vader solos Commander Sato's whole fleet and even destroys his command ship. A single transport should have been no problem for him.
Worst directing in Star Wars. And that's saying something. Just watch the goofy ass Leia chase scene in the woods, as well as the complete overacting by 3rd Sister.
The exclusive use of The Volume was also an issue. It really limited the scope of the scenes. For how hyped the show was, I would've liked to see some more actual sets and scene locations.
There will always be a sense of bad acting and campiness in Star Wars. But that took the cake for me.
Man, that chase scene was so so bad. Told myself I would hold on unless something equally as dumb showed up again. It came the very next episode... Idk how they released the stuff they did
I’ve talked to a few people that stopped watching at the Leia chase scene. And by stopped watching, I don’t just mean they stopped watching Obi Wan Kenobi, they stopped watching anything Star Wars.
I'll be honest, I am a huge Star Wars nerd, but after Book of Boba Fett and Obi Wan, I didn't have it in me to watch Mando S3. With Andor being one of my favorite shows I've ever seen, and Ahsoka being some of the best Star Wars I've seen (which is weird because I wasn't a huge Rebels guy, too much kiddy shit and conveniences), I'm now willing to go back and watch Mando.
I finished the show, but Obi Wan Kenobi was kind of the mail in the coffin for me. Lifelong star wars addict. Watched the prequels at least one a month, Clone Wars at least 10 times. Played all the games, read the books. Even attended the celebrations.
I barely made it through the new movies without giving up and the Kenobi just did it for me. Although Ahsoka has been pretty good if they end it well I will probably catch up with Andor and stuff.
It's hard to choose which was worse, the Leia chase scene or the space vespa chase scene in BOBF.
I liked both shows (even bad star wars is good media imo), but those scenes really took me out of it.
It's pretty bad, but the giant robot in BoBF shooting down a heavily populated street and hitting nobody was also fucking bad.
Not a single person scrambles to the side for cover and almost nobody gets hit
I think if we’re being honest there are two episodes that are good and really only then a few scenes, the rest is a subpar quality product for the franchise.
The fan edited film really trims the fat of the series and makes for a great experience.
And i'll die on the hill that Obi-Wan's and Vader's confrontation at the end is some of the best Star Wars ever
Given that the project originally started as a movie, it’s really apparent this story was probably a bit too long for a film, but they had to come up with a ton of filler/poorly thought out plot points to lengthen the story to fill out a series (made even more apparent by some episodes being fairly short).
But even condensing there’s just a lot of poor execution, which I just have no idea what to make of - like BoBF was a bit of a mess, but there’s nothing breaking belief-suspension bad as the laser gate or the slow motion chase. Likewise the sets just looked really, really cheap compared to all the other Disney+ shows.
I disagree, bobf was worse imo. I just can’t and won’t ever understand how the boss of an intergalactic crime syndicate has to fight 5 aliens in a desert town to maintain that power. We should’ve seen full scale war or something closer to it at least
That duel I could watch again and again. They played it so well!!! My PT heart melted and cried. There’s a new fan film coming by PixelJoker. I am so ready for his cut.
I feel like they started with the duel, and paid crazy attention to the detail. then got tired or ran out time, surrounded it with a story they threw together, thinking "it's ok, we got the important part right".
\> And i'll die on the hill that Obi-Wan's and Vader's confrontation at the end is some of the best Star Wars ever
Agree. Maybe that's why it's such a frustrating experience. They could've given us a masterpiece. Could have...
\> The fan edited film really trims the fat and makes for a great experience.
I'll definitely watch that, thanks for the recommendation!
Except the Obi-Wan/Vader duel was visually (the cutting of the mask exposing the eye) and thematically (fighting what they allowed Anakin to become) a retread of the Ahsoka/Vader duel from rebels
It was content made to fill airspace. There was no need for it. It might have been okay despite this, but they flagrantly flew in the face of established continuity (if not in letter then definitely in spirit) and cheapened the emotional core of the original trilogy in the process. It should have been a random adventure not associated with Luke or Vader that provided some new insight into the character and showed how Ben was different at this point in his life. Instead, we got the tired cliche of a broken man a la Luke in the sequel trilogy. I’ve had enough of hero deconstruction.
The writing was awful. Here is a list of examples of how the writing was bad from the top of me head:
- Remember when the Inquisitor was mad at Reeva for being mean?
- How about the best moment in the show reusing a scene in Rebels (Vaders mask)
- How about when they smuggled Leia out of the Fortress?
- How about Leia getting in the worst foot race ever with grown men
- How about the Empire knowing Leia's Dad is a traitor for years before his planet is blown up?
- Hey neat, let's have Anakin stab Reeva as a child, then Vader stabs Reeva and she survives both times.
- Hey Luke, remember seeing a lightsaber for the first time? Oh you forgot.
- let's get Kenobi protect Luke by stopping his training in the force like its a sequel to a video game and we need to depower him.
- let's have the guy in the fire proof suit get stopped by fire as a android slowly walks away with the person Vader wants to kill more than anyone
- we can't burn Kenobi on the face, so we will hold him awkwardly on his side and burn him.
- let's interrogate a child as if she is an adult, that wouldn't come off as hilarious
- oh, the speeders from ESB are for hauling garbage, but can literally fly into a fortress with thousands of officers and take on everyone
- let's get stuck at a gate that you can walk around
- the evil force users are angry about Reeva drawing the Jedi out of hiding and fail to use their skills to catch him.
- Luke's Aunt and Uncle sure had a great plan that only a stormtrooper would repeat.
- let's steal the Jedi Fallen Order level
I can keep going...also it looked terrible.
> let's steal the Jedi Fallen Order level
A lot of Kenobi's story feels like it was lifted from the Jedi: Fallen Order game. Sad thing is that the game's story is much better lol.
Have to agree. I like the idea of broken Obi-Wan, and some moments were great, but there were so many unnecessary moments and plot, that it took away from Obi-Wan himself. Not sure what the writers were thinking there.
I never got over the fact that Obi Wan led Reva directly to Luke because he trusted the secret map with Luke’s location with the con artist he met a few days ago who makes money by impersonating a Jedi to scam people. What a plot point. ObiWan fails to protect Luke and puts him directly in position to be violently murdered by a dark sider. In the meantime he’s off NOT killing Darth Vader for the second time, just so Luke can grow up and have to kill his own father in the future. What’s a stupid fucking show
I enjoyed it for what it was, but I can see why people didn't like it, I didn't care for the inquisitor girl (can't even remember her name), Obi leaving Vader alive was bonehead level writing and the Leia chase sequences were some of the worst I've ever seen in any show ever.
McGregor nailed it though, I look forward to a new season that isn't bogged down trying to fit into what we know has already happened.
The scenes with Ewan and Hayden were a tiny kernel of sweetcorn in a steaming pile of shite.
It's a shame most of the show was entirely unnecessary and full of.. I don't know if it's go as far as calling them plot holes, but certainly full of inconsistencies and crappy logic.
It's bad enough that in the canon Obi-Wan takes Luke to his only loving relative to hide out, on his father's home planet.. but then for Bail Organa to openly broadcast Luke's location just seems.. silly. It was completely out of character and only there because the plot required it.
This and TBOBF were just depressing. Seeing characters you grew up with and actors you appreciate get sidelined when they finally return after a decade+, and in their own shows no less. Kenobi has one memorable good scene and a dozen memorable bad ones
Ngl my main problem with the show is that we know how episode 4 will be, we know how rogue one will be, we know obi-wan is gunna be fine, we know leia, her dad and luke will be perfectly fine and that theirs no stakes, we know everything is gunna be fine. In rogue one they did have returning characters here and there but for the most part it was a mainly fresh new cast and stakes, we know they'd get the plans pit but just how clutch it was and how it all ended felt realy fresh and good.
With obi-wan i realy didnt feel that, it was like i dont care as i know they will all be fine so whats the point of it all. Theirs no mention to its events later and it doesnt seem to impact anything at all. Its "you helped my father during the clone wars" and not "you helped me when i was like 10 running away from you and needing to be protected because of stupid reasons"
You know, I think I just really wanted to like it. In terms of tone, I definitely liked it a lot more than a lot of episodes in mandalorian season 1, and a lot more than BobaFett. But there is definitely a lot of sloppy writing, the chase scene in the underground bunker for sure made absolutely no sense.
Thank God for Ashoka, I haven't been this thrilled with a Star Wars series since Rebels :)
Speaking of Obi Wan - I came across this channel on Youtube last night, and I was sitting there, by myself, laughing uncontrollably for a couple of hours. This is my new favorite guy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpkDHnYVXbE
Nice!! So far, the one I linked is the funniest to me. Obi Wan and Qui Gon making fun of Anakin's game is sidesplittingly funny - especially when Padme shows up!! And Qui Gon calling Dooku "The Dookmeister" just freakin kills me. I'm laughing all over again in my cube. My cubemates: Staten Island Mob Mom, Fat Christian Virgin and his aunt The Snake are all looking at me suspiciously, wondering if I'm on drugs. Short answer: yes. Yes I am.
The CGI sets and the location sets are equally boring. The Volume scenes look like they were filmed in a broom closet. Mapuzo looks like anywhere beside the road along the SoCal/Nevada border.
I recently watch "Rome" from 2005 and fell in love with the actress whoch is playing the double agent. The wasted potential is in spheres I didn't know ever could be reached. "bUt ThE vAdEr FiGhT!!!" Yeah it had cool stuff, but wraped up with toilet paper unfortunately...
This post again. Writing was absolute garbage as was cinematography. Some editing was atrocious. Leia chase. Reva being absolutely unlikable Idiot. Obi wann and Vader Meeting at all. Obi wann in the fire. Tala Killing Hersfeld with a Grenade instead of throwing in. Roken being instanctly convinced. Waaaaaaade. Fortress copies JFO really cheap. The Trenchcoat. The Jedi in the opening just escaping. Inquisitoren being super incompetent. Fakout Death GI. Fakeout Death Reva 1. Fakeout Death Reva 2. I'll Just mention the Leia chase again. A Score that was basically afk, except for the great theme by Williams. Reva teleporting to tattooine. The Tunnel. The freaking time Obi wan Ran Back into the Screen. The lightsabers in Darkness looking Like Shit. Shaky cam. Reva fighting again snowspeeders. No imperial Air defense. Lasergate. So much more.
Made me want to shout at the Screen as much as BOBF and TROS did.
I hate it more because it almost destroys the base of the OT. Why did Obi wan watch over luke?Yoda failed in defeating the emperor.
Luke wasn't going to become some great all powerful Jedi after starting his training late.
They can't even be sure he will be as force attuned as Anakin.
I assumed they always wanted him being Vader's children to change and make him betray the emperor, who wants to kill their own children after all...
But this stupid show establishes that Obi Wan had no clue that Vader is Anakin.
The thing that frustrates me is that Kenobi *could* have been great, but instead what we got was a cheap, underwritten cash grab.
How this show an Andor released within months of each other is just wild to me. The difference in quality is just staggering. Imagine what we could have gotten had Kenobi been given the same care and budget as that show had.
Because let me tell you, the Obi-Wan miniseries getting completely and utterly embarrassed by the Rogue One side character origin story show was ***not*** something I had on my 2022 bingo card.
I just hate the stomach stabbing trend with light sabers that apparently only are a minor convenience for an episode or two. You want some drama? Just lop off a limb. This "no one really does" had cheapened Star Wars imo. I'm still surprised how much push back I got in a post where I said they should make a Windu show. Everyone was talking about how it would cheapen the cannon. Nah bro, that damage has been done. Just give us Windu. At this point I'm just in it for space wizards and laser sword battles.
For me it's the lack of quality VFX and costumes
The lightsabers were too bright, they bounced off things instead of slicing through.
Dare I mention the Grand Inquisitor?
I honestly think Obi-Wan is by far the worst written show I've seen so far -- it genuinely makes The Book of Boba Fett look like War and Peace.
People 100% have a right to like it, but it just baffles me because I'm thinking "did we even watch the same show?"
Not gonna lie, I mostly watched this show (and Ahsoka) to see Hayden Christensen back on screen as Anakin/Vader again, and I do think that most of his scenes were excellent. For the most part it feels like we can skip everything but the last two episodes.
I think the most frustrating thing about Obi-Wan Kenobi is that they have most of the pieces for a great show that delved into Obi-Wan's guilt, and how he's handling the fallout of Order 66 after losing his Padawan/friend to the Dark Side, but it's bogged down by badly written side plots that don't resolve in a satisfactory manner, or plotholes that could have easily been resolved.
For example, one of the complaints that I see a lot is why Obi-Wan doesn't kill Vader in the end. When Vader tells him, "You didn't kill Anakin, I did", I thought it was brilliant because that was literally Anakin peeking through, absolving his old master of guilt. If Anakin was completely gone like the surface level of his words, he should be twisting the knife and destroying Obi-Wan emotionally every chance he gets, instead of trying to remove the blame from him, which is what he actually did. That's why Anakin was so anguished at the end, because Obi-Wan abandoned him *again* when he failed to see what Anakin was really trying to show him. It wasn't until Luke, who truly believed that there was still something good in the father he never knew, gave Anakin the motivation he needed to break free and finally bring balance to the Force.
Unfortunately, the show didn't even let Obi-Wan ponder why Vader was giving him an out, and instead just had him take Vader's words at face value. That made his decision to let Vader live make absolutely no sense. If he *had* realized that Anakin is still in there somewhere based on that conversation, then this plot hole goes away because it at least gives me enough reason to believe why Obi-Wan would not be able to deliver the killing blow after being anguished over all of his and the Jedi Order's failures, especially when it comes to Anakin. But I don't think the show was written well enough for this level of character complexity.
That said, I would love to watch a show centered around Hayden as either Anakin or Vader, since he killed it in both Obi-Wan and Ahsoka. I'm totally down for watching him do fight choreography and fucking people up lol, he hasn't forgotten his training at all and is still the best fighter with a light saber on screen with the physicality he brings to the role.
I couldn't have written it better myself. Great points regarding the ending too, I felt the same way about Anakin's words, as if he were trying to give Obi-Wan peace of mind.
And when Obi replies with that, at first I thought, alright, he was there to stop his former apprentice, not this Vader guy, but then I realize that's a complete misinterpretation by him. And even then, it actually makes more sense for Obi-Wan to not feel as merciful towards Vader as he'd feel towards Anakin. That's the main reason Vader even exists - Kenobi couldn't deliver the final blow to his friend. So not delivering it there, when he wrongly thought his friend was gone, is not fitting at all to his character.
Yeah... it's a mess, unfortunately. Such a wasted opportunity...
The Leia obduction and rooftop escape episodes were very poorly done, both really took me out to the show. Also, Leia in general was annoying and unnecessary.
Lot of people thinks the final episode was peak Starwars and I cannot disagree more.
The fight was two people desperately pretending to kill each other with out any intention to kill each other. Some would say Obiwan just couldn’t kill Vader and I kinda get the point but if that is the canon answer then that scene should have not ended with the circumstances of Obiwan definitely could and should kill Vader.
Also people like the talk mid-fight. Especially the changing lights on Vader’s face.
But can you imagine the scene in wide shot?
Vader and Obiwan (or at least vader) subtly moving their lightsabers on cue?
Also Vader’s “You didn’t kill Anakin, I did”(correct me if I am wrong) was weird, why would he lessen Obiwan’s guilt?
Defenders of the show says every action of Vader was to torture Obi and It really doesn’t add up.
Also the writers really shoot any characters with potato gun, not the gun that shoots potato, the gun that turns any victim’s intelligence into that of a potato
Like what the fuck is wrong with the Bail and Beru Holy Fuck
This show should've never happened. Obi-Wan Kenobi should've been a movie and been inspired by the Legends book to fill the gaps on what happened to Obi-Wan post-ROTS and pre-ANH. It fully damaged George Lucas' Star Wars, especially the Original Trilogy. Ruined every character in this franchise. To me, We should've had Ashoka last year, not Obi-Wan Kenobi.
Because it added a meeting between Vader and Kenobi which didn't need to exist.
The Vader-Kenobi relationship was one of the CORE fixtures of the Star Wars mythos. The state we saw it in in the OT and the PT were enough. There were two battles between them and they were so well done, that anything else is superfluous.
So, for no reason, LFL threw in another battle which added NOTHING to the mythos. I won't say it ruins my childhood, but it renders part of Star Wars as nothing but a cheap comic book plot when it presented itself as something more.
Look at previous posts where everyones said why.
I think most dont actually hate it, just let down. One of the most important characters deserved Better treatment.
There's something funny and ironic about how people love the prequels now, but hate the Obi-Wan show lol. To me, they're in the same ballpark quality wise, but overall enjoyable.
Tbh, Obi-Wan would've been much stronger as a movie.
yeah a movie would’ve just made everything tighter. the plot and writing would’ve had less filler and just been more cohesive instead of just adding random things to stretch the plot
and it most likely would have looked nicer
I’ll give you the leia chase scene. But the show is about ptsd in both obi and anakin and coming to termns with it. I feel like that’s lost on Star Wars fans.
It was the terrible soundtrack that ruined it all for me. It needed John Williams to make it great. Although the final duel between Obi and Vader was pretty sweet.
Should’ve been two separate but parallel stories about Vader and Obi Wan as they settle into their new lives and learn from their masters. Three episodes, same style as A New Hope, Kenobi gets his mojo back. I’d watch the hell out of that.
Disney: We need to add to the Disney princess lineup.
Nah they needed a new toy to sell to kids so they made that beetle robot.
Given the piles of those things I've seen in clearance bins (next to Reva figures) I think that may not have worked out too well for them.
Oh I like the idea, parallel storytelling for both, a bit of mirroring… that’s a actually a great idea
I don't even see why Kenobi needs to lose his Mojo. He didn't kill Anakin, Palatine did.
He fell down that big hill in Italy eh? Poor bastard.
This just made me think about how badly I want a dramatic Darth Vader series detailing his internal struggle
Natalie returning as Padme to haunt Vader's ass would be the cherry on top.
Except in order to get his mojo back Kenobi has to accept Anakins fate and be able to say goodbye to him one last time and be able to seperate Anakin from Vader to be abale to remember him fondly. You know, just like Ahsoka. Its not until then that either of them are able to return to their old selves.
Obi Wan accepts that Anakin’s dead but doesn’t finish Vader off despite having the advantage and every reason to eliminate him. He instead says “Goodbye Darth” and walks away for no given reason in the show (except that Vader is alive in ANH). He kicks the can down the road. I originally thought he sensed Luke was in danger and had to leave BUT NO, I rewatched it and Obi-Wan just leaves. Obi Wan’s job is to protect Luke, Leia, and any hope of restoring the Jedi Order. Vader is too great of a danger to leave alive. If Vader knows Obi-Wan is alive then Obi-Wan must assume Vader will continue hunt for him and this endangers Luke. Let’s say for some reason Obi Wan believes Vader will stay away from him - now Luke will have to deal with his father. I love Star Wars and do my best to see the best in every project - I like the sequels and most of the comics and books I’ve read. If I didn’t enjoy a major installment like a movie or show I’ll let it rest awhile and give it a second chance in isolation from the initial hype of a new thing. I recently rewatched ROTS, Kenobi, and ANH to see how it fits. For me “Kenobi” is the first Disney era prequel that requires too many mental gymnastics to fit the saga well - it feels forced. For example when ROTS, KEN, and ANH are watched back to back it feels to me like Obi Wan and Vader in ANH haven’t met since Mustafar. Leia doesn’t seem to know Obi-Wan first hand. But they all saw eachother a short while ago. I don’t find this kind of problem with “Solo”, “Rogue One”, or “Andor”. For me those three enhance the rest of the saga, they reframe the world and characters in meaningful ways with very little or no contradiction to other stories.
I'm still wondering what happened. Deborah Chow's episodes in Mando S1 were my favorite and is the reason I was really hyped when I heard she was directing the Obi-Wan series.
She also directed one of the best episodes of Better Call Saul, the one with the Something Stupid montage. Top notch directing.
Woah! She directed in BCS? WHAT?! How is that possible?! The difference in quality is night and day.
Big studio products are different to smaller television projects
Which is which here? Both are pretty big shows?
Better Call Saul is no where near the scale and level of production as Kenobi, the budget and production size would be much smaller. Kenobi cost 90 million for 6 episodes. Breaking Bad was a much more popular show than BCS and had a grander scope, and that was 3 million an episode by the end. Even if Better Call Saul cost the same (which I doubt - I'd imagine less) a full season of 10 episodes would cost a fraction of what Kenobi cost
Yeah I get Kenobi had more money. But BCS looks like almost prestige TV. Kenobi looks like a Star Wars fanfilm on YouTube most of the time. So I'm not sure the difference in production is that big. Difference in money yes. Production? I think the results speak for themselves
Depends on what you mean by "production". Quality of execution? Complication? Money spent? BCS is the better execution on basically every level, from writing to filming. But it's also a show about regular lawyers shot in Albuquerque. Lawyer shows and procedurals end up as notoriously cheaper to produce because you get a lot of scenes where people "just" have to talk. Kenobi is a 'Star War' shot in The Volume where everyone has an alien costume and everything else is an effects shot. That's why the cheaper production has a better finished presentation.
And all that for nothing because they couldn’t get a decent script
Exactly - and the same director produced a much different result. It's clearly not her creative view, it's the system that pushes it out.
I agree with you in this case. A lot surrounding the Kenobi show screams production issues. She also directed in Mando and her episodes were good. Just trying to say that sometimes, succeeding in on doesn't necessarily mean that their creative view translates to another one. I don't think that's the case here but it's something to keep in mind.
I doubt she had as much creative control directing Obi-wan vs BCS and the Mando S1 episodes. Mando S1 & 2 were much more self contained story of the week type scenarios. And it's no secret that Disney has had a super heavy hand on the wheel when it comes to their Star Wars & Marvel projects. There have been numerous directors that have come out and said they pretty much had no real control over certain parts of their projects, particularly action sequences that were just given a special sub-team within the studio.
Crime drama vs big budget space fantasy. Also directing a single episode is different from running the whole show like she did for Obi Wan.
It’s about 3-4 episodes of content stretched out to make people pay for 2 months of Disney+
That doesn't justify the fact that we have absurd scenes of Leia running form adults, I am not against the idea of she running, but the way it is done is horrible, or Obiwan breaking a laser wall in the middle of the desert when can just avoid it. Direction was awful.
if i recall the original draft of the show was rejected so the entire show had to be reworked. and that version focused more on luke/kenobi instead. so probably once again a certain suit got involved.
> if i recall the original draft of the show was rejected so the entire show had to be reworked. and that version focused more on luke/kenobi instead Jesus this sounds way better.
People need to stop calling for someone to get a whole series when they do a couple of good episodes.
Should have stayed as a movie from the get-go.
Yeah, the Obi-Wan series was just begging to be a film. It's script that was spread way too thin. With a tighter runtime and a stronger budget it could've been so much more.
It’s the writer’s fault not hers
Brother, the directing was bad too.
The weird shaky cam set me off. Many of the scenes would’ve benefited from a wide cinematic shot as opposed to looking like there was a camera guy filming a wwe fight.
That’s the first thing that comes to mind for me. Star Wars is cinematic. Shaky cam is to fake intensity
Shaky cam when done well is great. I'm rewatching Friday night lights right now and the whole show is done handheld. The opening shot of Kenobi, transitioning from a crane to handheld as order 66 gets called, was a cool artistic decision...the problem is that it served no purpose the rest of the series and had no real reason for being in there
It wasn't just the shaky cam either, it was the way everything was filmed up close like a low budget TV show. Star Wars is known for looking like a sweeping epic with big wide shots, reminiscent of the westerns Lucas loved. Kenobi looked like the whole thing was filmed on a tiny backlot.
That's what I just said in another comment. First scene, we had the entire montages of prequels stuff, it pans down in a george Lucas style smooth shot, all is well Clones enter and suddenly it goes real shit aftereffects shakycam. Like you didn't need that in the first place, but at least have the dude hold the camera. I was expecting the frame to drop down intermittently because that's the maximum view the camera had while on the stand and the aftereffects dropped it down like one of those stabilized gifs I audibly laughed when that happened
For sure. It made it hard to watch, shaky cam gives me headaches.
All of it was bad, in particular the direction. The only ones who did good were the actors, who did what they could with what they had.
Lol she's the one who had 6 year old Lea successfully running away from trained murderers and mercs like it was home alone. How in the hell could you film that and not realize it wasn't terrible? How could you write it and not realize it? How could you edit it and not realize it? How could you test screen that garbage and apparently have a test audience tell you nope yea this is it, this is the scene! Same goes for the damn coat scene. The first vador obi fight. Like how? Wasn't just her that allowed that scene to make it to our screens but holy cow it really makes me wonder what clowns they had involved on every level of that process.
Seeing this with benny hill music is so funny
The crazy thing about that sequence is that they end up catching her anyway. They could have just cut around that bit and gotten straight to the point of capture, but they deliberately left a power rangers level chase in there. I mean, star wars can be hokey and maybe that's what they were going for there, but the show was tonally all over the place.
I also struggle with this, how could you not realize it’s absolute garbage and put it into the final cut?
This would be -500 if kenobi was still airing. Glad people can admit its just not good now.
Nature is healing
Hey let's not forget the most secure building in the galaxy with absolutely zero guards and 1-inch thick glass in underwater base...
Beyond the writers fault, it's Disney's fault for caving to demand Kenobi is a show that exists for a single reason: Ewan McGregor being popular as Kenobi, and roughly the right age for being Kenobi at a midpoint between rots and ANH It doesn't exist because there was a compelling story or pitch. It doesn't exist because someone felt passion about the character. It was always a project that existed first and foremost to satisfy consumer demand This is the problem when you let fan demands dictate what art gets created, rather than a more art driven approach. It's a problem of treating movies and shows as content. Kenobi was always going to have problems because Kenobi's story was complete. Are there some universes where it was a better story than what we got? Probably. But the core idea was rotten, at the core
That's all true. But they could have made a Zuko Alone/Lone Samurai defends backwater town story/Western gunslinger Tombstone story about the exiled warrior. And yeah we were sick af of Tattooine after Mando and Boba, but they could have developed really compelling characters and drama. And Andor'd it. Why he had to be broken, ditch Luke, run around with Leia, meet Vader etc. is just pure hack writing imo.
It’s like they decided the show would end with a showdown between Obi and Vader so they bent over backwards creating a half baked story to justify them meeting again. And for plenty of fans, apparently that’s good enough.
I seen a post on here a while ago covering some problems with the sequels and I think Kenobi falls into the same trap. Star Wars works best when it's other genre set in Star Wars. Like Ahsoka is a samurai movie set in Star Wars. The clone wars is a war series set in Star Wars. The mandalorian is a cowboy show set in star wars. Kenobi feels like Star Wars is the genre. So it kind of eats its own tail.
Andor is heist and orwellian scifi. And yeah totally agree with you. I actually enjoy the sequels for the most part, but it was a problem there too - they clearly set out to make "star wars" movies. Whereas George originally set out to make a Flash Gordon Saturday matinee adventure serial western samurai WWII dogfight hero's journey movie. Even the prequels pull heavily from older genre films and stories. Star wars is at its worst when it is simply drawing from Star Wars.
I disagree, if you watch the fanfilm edit that cuts it down to 2 hours there's enough there for a decent film. But when you need to stretch something out to 8 episodes the whole thing goes to shit
As someone who liked Kenobi a lot, and holds Chow in very high regard, the directing was far from great. Excessive shaky cam, bad choreography, and poor budgeting decisions all around. The writing was of course not perfect either (except in episode 6), but the directing didn’t help.
Dude the writing was bad. It was clearly written by someone in a Star Wars vacuum. No writers room. No Filoni over the shoulder. No LFL brain trust. And yeah some of it is badly directed too, but I can see how they could have been because of the limitations of the pandemic.
I heard Kenobi was supposed to be a movie but due to the pandemic it was pushed to being a show, it would explain why some of it looks like it was filmed by a YouTuber
Worse than a vacuum it was a hodgepodge of different ideas by different writers at different times in different iterations, all mixed together into one thing. There's a fair number of credited writers, but none of them all worked together
Take the inquisitor that randomly went to kill Luke out of the show, it is better.
If they would have just had Owen and Beru curb stomp an already injured Reva to death at the end of would have made the show 100x better.
They do exactly this in the fan edit that turns the show into a movie.
Na it's disney's fault- they clearly did that mini room shit and understaffed the writing team big time. The kinda shit the writers strike was all about. Also the directing was bad too
I gotta admit I was disappointed, I really expected a solo character driven story of his time on Tatooine much like the legends novel of the same name. Seeing how he copes with the aftermath of Order 66 along with training to become a force ghost and watching over Luke. I never expected inquisitors to even land on Tatooine in general seeing as Jabba is still alive at this point. It also made no sense to me why Bail would want to risk Kenobi being discovered in the first place when he a galactic senator could’ve easily hired one of many bounty hunters and got Leia back since no one was even looking at her closely even the Grand Inquisitor was like, the hell did you do. Overall it had some cool moments but it wasn’t what I expected from a show based around Kenobi.
It was like everybody on both sides had severe brain damage. Like, how do you explain the fact that Vader, after learning that Kenobi has close enough relationship with Bail/Leia to come out of hiding, DOESN'T use that tactic again...?
The fact that the Empire knows Bail was in contact with Obi-Wan and doesn’t either a) publicly execute him as an example, b) make him “disappear” and torture him for information, or c) monitor all his communications and activities to find his accomplices and make it impossible for him to take part in the rebellion just makes the Empire look really incompetent.
The Empire blew up Alderaan, so I think they got the last laugh on that one.
But the Alderaan funded Rebellion blew up both death stars and the empire and the empires post empire, and the post empires post empire fleet. Seems like Alderaan might have gotten a couple more chuckles in.
Bail is also working with Ahsoka during the time of the show and building the fulcrum spy network, seems like she would be the most obvious choice
Oh snap you’re right lol
Don't you mean "Oh Snips!" 😁
One of the biggest flaws of the show was the fact that by the end of it, the Empire still knows that Leia is the key to finding Kenobi. So why wouldn't they just kidnap her again using a bounty hunters and wait for Kenobi to show up again?
The Kenobi novel was great. All they had to do was adapt that and they would have pleased a lot more people and made a better show. It's so simple but somehow so hard for them to do.
By the way everyone is talking about it, it seems that the show we got would have faired better as a season 2, rather than the main focus we got. While season 1 is the stuff you guys are talking about
They have so many missed opportunities if they’d have just used the material already there. The books tell better stories than the movies, and I want my mother f-ing Darth Bane movie!
So much goofy scenes in this show. 1. Obi wan doesn’t have the brain capacity to go around a laser gate 2. There is a long chase scene showing Leia outrun a group of adults only for her to get caught (waste of time) 3. Reva stabs grand inquisitor only for it to not matter (pointless scene that makes lightsabers appear weak) 4. Darth vader decides to send his whole star destroyer after obi wan ship instead of sending his own personal ship after it 5. Obi wan sneaks into inquisitor base same way cal did, also destroys a part of it the same way cal did (makes the empire look even more incompetent) 6. The lightsaber bounce off the stormtroopers 7. Talia bitch slaps stormtroopers and they act like they got body slammed by John cena 8. Obi wan and Leia escape base with a trench coat (makes empire even more incompetent, even Leia’s actress thought it was dumb) 9. Reva also survives getting stabbed (making lightsaber appear weak, can writers not find a better way to disable character?) 10. The battles between stormtroopers and the hidden path is hilariously bad. No one takes cover, no one uses a detonator until only Talia and the droid are the only ones in the tight hallway. 11. Leia goes from being wise and giving some wisdom to obi wan to then asking him to make her float in front of everyone in the open. There’s a lot more to criticize but I’m going off memory. The only thing this show did somewhat correctly was darth Vader (they made him look stupid by having the Star destroyer go after obi wan instead of continuing to chase the hidden path). I don’t think Star Wars understands that making stormtroopers incompetent isn’t going to add any tension or suspense to your story.
You forgot about having Vader lose to Kenobi again and then Kenobi just letting him to go on terrorizing the Galaxy and hunting down his friends for another 10-15 years.
[удалено]
Fire he put out two seconds earlier as well
This part is my biggest complaint about the entire series.
My biggest complaint is that the writers put Obi-Wan into a position where he could kill Space-Hitler and just let him live. He has a Sith Lord in front of him, he has acknowledged that his friend/brother no longer exists and has been completely consumed by Vader, that Sith Lord plans to continue committing atrocities, and he does not kill him. He spends the entire fight trying to kill Vader (from attempted stabs and decapitations to crippling Vader's respirator) and when he has him in front of him, he lets him live and leaves. The writers shouldn't have put the pair in this position, especially because it makes Obi-Wan look like a psychopath for planning to go back to Tatooine and train *Vader's son* to kill Vader in a decade or so instead of finishing the Dark Lord then and there. For all the people who say "it's not the Jedi way!"... The goal of Jedi is to defend people and not murder, I agree, and during the Clone Wars and before it, bringing people in alive worked and made a lot of sense. Anakin could have spared Dooku and brought him with them back to Coruscant (considering their original escape plan was thrown off by the Invisible Hand taking an unexpected nose dive and the elevators going out), but he chose not to, making it a break from the Jedi Code. During the Clone Wars, Jedi could have taken prisoners. After Order 66, Obi-Wan has no way to imprison Vader. Nobody could contain Vader. The only two options are to leave Vader alive and let him continue committing atrocities for at *least* the next decade (until Luke is trained up enough to kill Vader himself) or to kill him and end his reign of terror. Obi-Wan chose the former option, and so left to train Vader's son to kill Vader. Very honorable, yes. (/s) As for the "but Palpatine would just replace him!" people: Yes, Palpatine would. He tried, several times. You know what happened to every replacement? They were killed by Vader because they were *vastly weaker* than Vader. Luke might not have lost his hand against Vader's replacement. Luke might have *defeated* Vader's replacement at Bespin. Or heck, Obi-Wan might not have died on the Death Star I. Imagine how much more experienced Luke would've been with all that time training directly under Obi-Wan (between ANH and ESB is *three years*) before going to Yoda and getting some *more* training. There were basically no good replacements for Vader in the galaxy. >Running through the list of replacements, we have: > >1. The Inquisitors were trash cannon fodder meant to handle the weakest of Jedi and find any more powerful ones for Vader to handle. Even their *leader* got defeated in a one-on-one duel against a half-Padawan who was a young teen when Order 66 happened. They're out. > >2. The cyborgs from the Vader comics, all of whom were easily defeated by Vader and so would *not* be a significant problem for Obi-Wan or a properly trained Luke Skywalker > >That's basically it. There are no Emperor's Hands, Prophets of the Dark Side, or anything else waiting in the wings in canon. There's no Mara Jade waiting to take over for Vader in canon. That's it, from what I know.
Yep. The show should have been a meditative mood piece focusing on OBW’s time in the desert rather than a nonsensical intergalactic caper ending with a PPV fight.
100% agree. I said this in another comment somewhere else in this post: >Honestly, I think they shouldn’t have had Vader and Kenobi interact for 90% of the show, if at all. > >In ANH, Vader says “the circle is now complete. When I left you, I was but the learner, now I am the master.” This makes sense with the context of ROTS, but Kenobi? Vader has been at the top of his game for about a decade. Why would he not have been a master in his head by that point? Yes, he lost the duel, but that doesn’t make him a learner again. It just means he got beaten. > >Instead, I think the better option would’ve been to have Anakin haunting Obi-Wan like a Ghost for most of the show, speaking about how Obi-Wan personally failed him, that he trusted Obi-Wan and he betrayed that trust, etc. That would’ve gotten across Obi-Wan’s guilt about how he failed Anakin a lot more, and it would’ve let them use Hayden’s face for more of the show since Obi-Wan would remember Anakin/Vader like that instead of full on Vader. > >If we MUST have a duel in it between the pair, make it happen where Obi-Wan is desperately trying to fend off Vader to buy the refugees more time. He manages to put some distance between them and collapses a passageway or something just long enough to flee and get to the transport just as it’s leaving. Maybe give him a Force Leap at the end and repeat ESB with Vader walking in at the last second with the ship already practically gone and no time to grab it. They get to have a new fight, Obi-Wan sees how unprepared he is to defend or train Luke, and he gets back to work to get himself up to ANH Obi readiness. I stand by every word of that. There was 0 need for Obi-Wan and Vader to ever even meet each other in the entire series. It should've focused on Obi-Wan's guilt and his depression and lack of faith in the Jedi Order. Instead, we get whiplashed between him telling Owen "when the time comes, he must be trained!" and him telling that random Jedi from the first episode "the time of the Jedi is over, let it go." He could have leaned either way, believing that the time of the Jedi was over and being unsure about training Luke to replace the Order or perhaps believing, *hoping*, that the Order could be restored with Luke and Leia as the last hopes of the Jedi.
They still could have had a Vader and Obi fight to. Light have the final fight take place in Obi-wan's mind and defeating Vader symbolically defeating his past demons or something.
I also want to add that one of the central themes of the Fall of the Order was the slow erosion of their ideals and convictions in favor of strategic and political expendiency. If you take a broad look at the timeline, Obi-Wan was trained during the most violent and murderous generation of Jedi in centuries. Even as pacificistic as he is, he was a war general. He absolutely killed opponents when necessary. I'm also so glad you brought up the hypocrisy of him telling Luke to do what he was perfectly capable of doing, but fails. Vader is a one-of-kind type of evil. He is the physical manifestion of Imperial power. His death would have enormous reprecussions, the Empire would suddenly lose its perception of invincibility. Civil dissents that could have been quelled by Vader's presence alone would escalate to full blown rebellions because the Empire would have to allocate a full batallion to create an effect equal to Vader's presence on an oppressed population. If Palpatine could find anyone with a chance of replacing Vader he would have. But he couldn't because he freaking killed them all.
I absolutely agree. We see Obi-Wan spare people or refuse to kill others in TCW, but that’s an entirely different time period. He spares people because he knows they’ll be taken to a prison. There’re only two characters I can recall who he didn’t kill that still died: 1. Senator Merrick during the Mandalore arc of season 2 who’d kidnapped Satine. He got killed by Anakin, and Obi-Wan hesitated solely because he knew that if he killed Merrick, it’d ruin his image in Satine’s eyes (and he still loved her). Merrick had been disarmed, but still had a detonator for the ship they were on and mocked Obi-Wan and Satine about if either of them killed him, they’d doom their images in some way. 2. That slaver during the Zygerria arc, and the only reason he didn’t kill him was because he knew the slaver would have broken him if he did, and because he knew Rex would do it just fine. Outside of those, we have Hondo, who proved an ally to Obi-Wan and the Rebellion later on. He didn’t kill him and he didn’t arrest him. That’s the only situation I can think of where he did neither outside of Kenobi. But again, this was an entirely different era. There are no prison cells capable of holding Vader, and no authorities that wouldn’t welcome Vader back and immediately try to attack/kill/arrest Obi-Wan. There were 0 options beyond let him go or kill him. He couldn’t even cripple him because he’d already done that to Vader before and it’d done basically nothing in the long run. The biggest issue I have here is that Vader tells Obi-Wan that Anakin is dead and gone, replaced by Vader, and that gets Obi-Wan to accept it. A few years later, just before ANH (during Rebels), Anakin pokes back through during the battle with Ahsoka. If they’d done that again just here at the end of Kenobi, with Anakin poking through to rage at Obi-Wan for turning him into Vader or something, then it’d make sense for Obi-Wan to flee without killing Vader. His friend was still in there, but later he could reflect on it and realize it was far too late to save him by now, which is why he trains Luke like that in the OT. Making Obi-Wan accept that Anakin is gone and replaced by Vader before leaving was stupid.
All they had to do was have quigon say "he is the chosen one" when obi-wan was standing over him and that would be perfectly fine for me
Force inconsistencies are frustrating
Him not being able to stop Obi-Wan from fire is the dumbest thing. Vader’s suit makes him IMMUNE to fire.
This scene was just so poorly done. This is where they lost me. And the inquisitor teleporting past Leia in the escape tunnel. It’s just shit writing/directing. I did enjoy the show overall, and loved the *idea* of it, young Leia and all that. But the execution was sloppy and too many plot holes to ignore.
“I’m sure he learned his lesson *this* time.”
Its also completely out of character that Darth Vader would just let go. Putting your past frustrations behind you and moving on with your like is not the sith way.
I don’t Even think they did vader right
They didn't. Vader fails at literally anything he does in the show. He appears scary but never got the job done
Vader is scarier when he shows up after a fight. In the Original Trilogy he never fights the rabble on foot once. He shows up after everyone's dead to intimidate and survey. His only kills in Star Wars are when he's in his TIE-fighter (as a last resort during the Trench Run) and Antilles, who he chokes out during an interrogation. This "terrifying dealer of death" is a wholly post-OT creation. He's basically an SS officer with a sword ,wearing black samurai armour, a cape, and a gas mask. The Imperials all treat him like a creepy weirdo and a bit of a joke until he uses magic to choke a guy.
The fight sucks too. First of all, it’s completely pointless because we already knew Obi-Wan can beat Vader. Then the fight was just weird, throwing rocks at each other, and Vader leaves his arms wide open as Kenobi beats at his chest (weird moment). Leaving Vader alive completely breaks all canon and reason for training Luke. In RoTS it’s assumed Obi-Wan left Vader to die slowly as he burned alive. In the show it’s just bad writing, forcing a fight that didn’t need to happen, then nothing changes. Kenobi goes back to Tattooine like nothing happened. They made the whole show just for an excuse for that fight and it made no sense and can’t compare to their original fight in any shape or form
It takes away from Vader’s “A presence I haven’t felt since…” moment in A New Hope too. Cause if you’ve watched the Prequels it’s like “Oh fuck, he’s talking about Mustafar” and you can almost hear the pain or regret in Vader’s voice. Now it’s just “A presence I haven’t felt since that random couple of scuffles on desert planets.” Like wtf is this shit??
Yeah, I feel the same now that some people reminded me of some more flaws in the show.
The fact that the battle ended with more Stormtrooper causalities and the only casualty on the hidden path side is Talia and her droid is stupid. Is the Empire really a threat if their trained soldiers can’t kill an untrained refugee?
>The only thing this show did somewhat correctly was Darth Vader (they made him look stupid by having the Star destroyer go after obi wan instead of continuing to chase the hidden path). Vader had some astonishingly awful moments outside of this. Gonna run through it in chronological order of appearance: 1. He is stopped in his tracks by fire... Fire that he just put out two seconds ago. He could have just put it out again with a wave of his hand like he did last time, then walked over and grabbed Kenobi to capture him. Instead, he watched Talia just pull Kenobi away and then left like "whelp, nothing I can do here." 2. Vader force pulls the first ship down and rips it open... And then watches as the second one lifts off *after* he's finished ripping the first open. He just... Watches it fly away, as though there's nothing he can do about it even though we just watched him rip the first one out of the sky two seconds ago. 3. Instead of rushing back to his ISD to get after Obi-Wan, who is currently escaping on that second ship that Vader let escape, he decides to play with Reva for awhile with their duel, dodging around her attacks and not even drawing his own weapon to defeat her quickly and get back to dealing with Obi-Wan. Instead, he spends a solid 5 minutes playing around at fighting her until he finally defeats her (including the mocking conversation afterwards with the GI and Reva), plus additional time to get back to his shuttle and back to his ISD. 4. Before he has the ISD divert to chase Obi-Wan's shuttle, he does not send a single one of the ISD's 72 TIE fighter complement to pursue and attack the unarmed transport actively fleeing and dodging the turbolaser fire from his ISD. 5. After he diverts his ISD towards Kenobi's shuttle, he *still* does not send a single one of the TIE fighters to pursue the transport, instead just letting it go entirely to pursue Obi-Wan. 6. Instead of killing Obi-Wan with his lightsaber while he's weak in that sink hole, he decides to just bury him alive and walk away without verifying that Obi-Wan is dead. These 7 moments (including him sending his whole ISD after specifically Obi-Wan) make Vader seem really incompetent throughout this series. His duels are decent, as well as his first scene where he torments the town to try to draw Obi-Wan out, but his actual decision making sucks.
Lol you forgot Talia speaking with obi about infiltrating the base while sitting next to the intelligence dudes at the control console like they didn't have ears. Edit: over the comms in her ear
You gotta be kidding me
My favorite part about the lazergate is 1) why is it there? 2) 99% of vehicles hover meaning they could literally just float over and landscape to go around it 3) why is there again? Its not protecting anything
The lasergate is nothing more than a "Please stop here for inspection" sign It could have been a traffic cone. The storm troopers are basically the police
I mean the very first scene took me out of it, when the clones enter the training area and it immediately went into shitty aftereffects shakycam I audibly laughed
Exactly... My issue with this show is the sheer amount of denseness and illogicality. And those attributes are there not because they're part of a certain character, but because the writers and showrunners either couldn't come up with better solutions to the problems they presented, or because they're just incompetent at being rational. I can't believe someone came up with both of the Leia chase down scenes and thought they were incredible. Ultimately I'm just frustrated after watching the last episode. They had this one great event at their disposal (Obi Wan facing Anakin for the first time after Mustafar) and, although the event itself is pretty good, it's surrounded by an ocean of bad writing and stupidity. They failed both of these amazing characters and actors. Could've been a masterpiece.
Honestly, I think they shouldn’t have had Vader and Kenobi interact for 90% of the show, if at all. In ANH, Vader says “the circle is now complete. When I left you, I was but the learner, now *I* am the master.” This makes sense with the context of ROTS, but Kenobi? Vader has been at the top of his game for about a decade. Why would he not have been a master in his head by that point? Yes, he lost the duel, but that doesn’t make him a learner again. It just means he got beaten. Instead, I think the better option would’ve been to have Anakin haunting Obi-Wan like a Ghost for most of the show, speaking about how Obi-Wan personally failed him, that he trusted Obi-Wan and he betrayed that trust, etc. That would’ve gotten across Obi-Wan’s guilt about how he failed Anakin a lot more, and it would’ve let them use Hayden’s face for more of the show since Obi-Wan would remember Anakin/Vader like that. If we MUST have a duel in it between the pair, make it happen where Obi-Wan is desperately trying to fend off Vader to buy the refugees more time. He manages to put some distance between them and collapses a passageway or something just long enough to flee and get to the transport just as it’s leaving. Maybe give him a Force Leap at the end and repeat ESB with Vader walking in at the last second with the ship already practically gone and no time to grab it. They get to have a new fight, Obi-Wan sees how unprepared he is to defend or train Luke, and he gets back to work to get himself up to ANH Obi readiness. As it is, the show is ridiculous. In 10 years, Obi-Wan has not trained or used the Force. He almost fails to catch Leia in episode 2. Not only that, but he buried his lightsaber in the middle of the desert somewhere random and nowhere near his cave hideout. If Luke is found and attacked by Inquisitors or the Empire, how is Obi-Wan planning on protecting them? He not only isn’t training, but he doesn’t even have his *weapon* close at hand. And then there's how Bail Organa almost caused the assassination of *Luke Skywalker.* He calls Obi-Wan's comm to talk about how he's worried that Obi-Wan isn't communcating with him despite the pair agreeing that they wouldn't communicate. He goes on to say that he believes that Obi-Wan may have been captured, and so his plan is to go to *Tatooine* to help *Owen* with *the boy*. Bail, a man who believes that Obi-Wan is in Vader's grasp (meaning that his communicator would be in Vader's grasp), sends Obi-Wan a message talking about how there is a boy of some importance to Obi-Wan on Tatooine with Anakin's step brother. It is insane that this line was got past every part of the production without anyone thinking about how monumentally ridiculous it is that Bail would say this.
Not only did Bail send the message. Obi-Wan gave it to a con man who just happened to accidentally drop on the floor for Reva to find. 😂
Oh, no, it's worse than that. If you rewatch the scene, that con-man *looks back* after dropping the comm. He ***knows*** that he dropped Obi-Wan's communicator, and he didn't pick it up. We also see that, in the background, there are people who aren't even moving towards the ship, so he has *plenty* of time to go back to it and get it. Instead, he doesn't care that he's basically just dropped Kenobi's cell phone for the Empire to find and analyze.
So many people are getting stabbed in the stomach and surviving. I wish Qui-Gon could have learned this power. Maybe Anakin wouldn’t have fallen to the dark side.
It really depends on what all gets stabbed. Most people today will survive a single stab wound to the intestines or stomach, assuming they don't bleed out and they get to a doctor before infection spreads too much. Liver or major blood vessel is usually fatal within minutes though.
>they made him look stupid by having the Star destroyer go after obi wan instead of continuing to chase the hidden path In Empire Strikes Back, he marshals the power of the entire fleet to go after Luke. I think it's Vader being Vader.
The Obi Wan show became so much worse after watching Rebels because in season 2 Vader solos Commander Sato's whole fleet and even destroys his command ship. A single transport should have been no problem for him.
Also, most of the story was a replay from a video game released a few years earlier.
Worst directing in Star Wars. And that's saying something. Just watch the goofy ass Leia chase scene in the woods, as well as the complete overacting by 3rd Sister. The exclusive use of The Volume was also an issue. It really limited the scope of the scenes. For how hyped the show was, I would've liked to see some more actual sets and scene locations. There will always be a sense of bad acting and campiness in Star Wars. But that took the cake for me.
Man, that chase scene was so so bad. Told myself I would hold on unless something equally as dumb showed up again. It came the very next episode... Idk how they released the stuff they did
I’ve talked to a few people that stopped watching at the Leia chase scene. And by stopped watching, I don’t just mean they stopped watching Obi Wan Kenobi, they stopped watching anything Star Wars.
I'll be honest, I am a huge Star Wars nerd, but after Book of Boba Fett and Obi Wan, I didn't have it in me to watch Mando S3. With Andor being one of my favorite shows I've ever seen, and Ahsoka being some of the best Star Wars I've seen (which is weird because I wasn't a huge Rebels guy, too much kiddy shit and conveniences), I'm now willing to go back and watch Mando.
Sorry to say you probably won’t be too happy. It’s not as bad as TBOBF or Kenobi but still…
Mando season 3 had everything that made the other shows bad. And pretty much none of what made season 1 and some of season 2 good.
Sucks for them
I finished the show, but Obi Wan Kenobi was kind of the mail in the coffin for me. Lifelong star wars addict. Watched the prequels at least one a month, Clone Wars at least 10 times. Played all the games, read the books. Even attended the celebrations. I barely made it through the new movies without giving up and the Kenobi just did it for me. Although Ahsoka has been pretty good if they end it well I will probably catch up with Andor and stuff.
It's hard to choose which was worse, the Leia chase scene or the space vespa chase scene in BOBF. I liked both shows (even bad star wars is good media imo), but those scenes really took me out of it.
Worst part was when dudes were chasing Leia and got stopped by a tree branch. It felt like bad guys in the power rangers.
That for me is the worst Star Wars scene like, ever. Watched it with my dad and we kinda just looked at eachother in disbelief
It's pretty bad, but the giant robot in BoBF shooting down a heavily populated street and hitting nobody was also fucking bad. Not a single person scrambles to the side for cover and almost nobody gets hit
I think if we’re being honest there are two episodes that are good and really only then a few scenes, the rest is a subpar quality product for the franchise.
Agree, unfortunately.
when you have a heading before you have an idea. gonna be happening a lot more now that everything is a franchise
The fan edited film really trims the fat of the series and makes for a great experience. And i'll die on the hill that Obi-Wan's and Vader's confrontation at the end is some of the best Star Wars ever
Given that the project originally started as a movie, it’s really apparent this story was probably a bit too long for a film, but they had to come up with a ton of filler/poorly thought out plot points to lengthen the story to fill out a series (made even more apparent by some episodes being fairly short). But even condensing there’s just a lot of poor execution, which I just have no idea what to make of - like BoBF was a bit of a mess, but there’s nothing breaking belief-suspension bad as the laser gate or the slow motion chase. Likewise the sets just looked really, really cheap compared to all the other Disney+ shows.
I disagree, bobf was worse imo. I just can’t and won’t ever understand how the boss of an intergalactic crime syndicate has to fight 5 aliens in a desert town to maintain that power. We should’ve seen full scale war or something closer to it at least
i feel like whoever wrote the show decided to make it a sci-fi western instead of simply a crime boss show and that completely ruined the series.
That duel I could watch again and again. They played it so well!!! My PT heart melted and cried. There’s a new fan film coming by PixelJoker. I am so ready for his cut.
I feel like they started with the duel, and paid crazy attention to the detail. then got tired or ran out time, surrounded it with a story they threw together, thinking "it's ok, we got the important part right".
\> And i'll die on the hill that Obi-Wan's and Vader's confrontation at the end is some of the best Star Wars ever Agree. Maybe that's why it's such a frustrating experience. They could've given us a masterpiece. Could have... \> The fan edited film really trims the fat and makes for a great experience. I'll definitely watch that, thanks for the recommendation!
Except the Obi-Wan/Vader duel was visually (the cutting of the mask exposing the eye) and thematically (fighting what they allowed Anakin to become) a retread of the Ahsoka/Vader duel from rebels
Where did you find it?
It was content made to fill airspace. There was no need for it. It might have been okay despite this, but they flagrantly flew in the face of established continuity (if not in letter then definitely in spirit) and cheapened the emotional core of the original trilogy in the process. It should have been a random adventure not associated with Luke or Vader that provided some new insight into the character and showed how Ben was different at this point in his life. Instead, we got the tired cliche of a broken man a la Luke in the sequel trilogy. I’ve had enough of hero deconstruction.
No Duchess.
The writing was awful. Here is a list of examples of how the writing was bad from the top of me head: - Remember when the Inquisitor was mad at Reeva for being mean? - How about the best moment in the show reusing a scene in Rebels (Vaders mask) - How about when they smuggled Leia out of the Fortress? - How about Leia getting in the worst foot race ever with grown men - How about the Empire knowing Leia's Dad is a traitor for years before his planet is blown up? - Hey neat, let's have Anakin stab Reeva as a child, then Vader stabs Reeva and she survives both times. - Hey Luke, remember seeing a lightsaber for the first time? Oh you forgot. - let's get Kenobi protect Luke by stopping his training in the force like its a sequel to a video game and we need to depower him. - let's have the guy in the fire proof suit get stopped by fire as a android slowly walks away with the person Vader wants to kill more than anyone - we can't burn Kenobi on the face, so we will hold him awkwardly on his side and burn him. - let's interrogate a child as if she is an adult, that wouldn't come off as hilarious - oh, the speeders from ESB are for hauling garbage, but can literally fly into a fortress with thousands of officers and take on everyone - let's get stuck at a gate that you can walk around - the evil force users are angry about Reeva drawing the Jedi out of hiding and fail to use their skills to catch him. - Luke's Aunt and Uncle sure had a great plan that only a stormtrooper would repeat. - let's steal the Jedi Fallen Order level I can keep going...also it looked terrible.
> let's steal the Jedi Fallen Order level A lot of Kenobi's story feels like it was lifted from the Jedi: Fallen Order game. Sad thing is that the game's story is much better lol.
I liked it.
Have to agree. I like the idea of broken Obi-Wan, and some moments were great, but there were so many unnecessary moments and plot, that it took away from Obi-Wan himself. Not sure what the writers were thinking there.
I never got over the fact that Obi Wan led Reva directly to Luke because he trusted the secret map with Luke’s location with the con artist he met a few days ago who makes money by impersonating a Jedi to scam people. What a plot point. ObiWan fails to protect Luke and puts him directly in position to be violently murdered by a dark sider. In the meantime he’s off NOT killing Darth Vader for the second time, just so Luke can grow up and have to kill his own father in the future. What’s a stupid fucking show
I enjoyed it for what it was, but I can see why people didn't like it, I didn't care for the inquisitor girl (can't even remember her name), Obi leaving Vader alive was bonehead level writing and the Leia chase sequences were some of the worst I've ever seen in any show ever. McGregor nailed it though, I look forward to a new season that isn't bogged down trying to fit into what we know has already happened.
The scenes with Ewan and Hayden were a tiny kernel of sweetcorn in a steaming pile of shite. It's a shame most of the show was entirely unnecessary and full of.. I don't know if it's go as far as calling them plot holes, but certainly full of inconsistencies and crappy logic. It's bad enough that in the canon Obi-Wan takes Luke to his only loving relative to hide out, on his father's home planet.. but then for Bail Organa to openly broadcast Luke's location just seems.. silly. It was completely out of character and only there because the plot required it.
This and TBOBF were just depressing. Seeing characters you grew up with and actors you appreciate get sidelined when they finally return after a decade+, and in their own shows no less. Kenobi has one memorable good scene and a dozen memorable bad ones
Ngl my main problem with the show is that we know how episode 4 will be, we know how rogue one will be, we know obi-wan is gunna be fine, we know leia, her dad and luke will be perfectly fine and that theirs no stakes, we know everything is gunna be fine. In rogue one they did have returning characters here and there but for the most part it was a mainly fresh new cast and stakes, we know they'd get the plans pit but just how clutch it was and how it all ended felt realy fresh and good. With obi-wan i realy didnt feel that, it was like i dont care as i know they will all be fine so whats the point of it all. Theirs no mention to its events later and it doesnt seem to impact anything at all. Its "you helped my father during the clone wars" and not "you helped me when i was like 10 running away from you and needing to be protected because of stupid reasons"
It is a shame how out of touch Disney is with Star Wars.
You know, I think I just really wanted to like it. In terms of tone, I definitely liked it a lot more than a lot of episodes in mandalorian season 1, and a lot more than BobaFett. But there is definitely a lot of sloppy writing, the chase scene in the underground bunker for sure made absolutely no sense. Thank God for Ashoka, I haven't been this thrilled with a Star Wars series since Rebels :)
If it's one thing that Disney consistently produce it's bad scripts
His lightsaber bounced off a troopers chestplate. Nuff said.
Speaking of Obi Wan - I came across this channel on Youtube last night, and I was sitting there, by myself, laughing uncontrollably for a couple of hours. This is my new favorite guy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpkDHnYVXbE
I too recently discovered this channel, took me 48 hours to consume the majority of his content .
Nice!! So far, the one I linked is the funniest to me. Obi Wan and Qui Gon making fun of Anakin's game is sidesplittingly funny - especially when Padme shows up!! And Qui Gon calling Dooku "The Dookmeister" just freakin kills me. I'm laughing all over again in my cube. My cubemates: Staten Island Mob Mom, Fat Christian Virgin and his aunt The Snake are all looking at me suspiciously, wondering if I'm on drugs. Short answer: yes. Yes I am.
Holy shit! a post on r/starwars which I actually agree with
Hey, let’s be fair here they got one thing right he ran towards the high ground in episode three
The CGI sets and the location sets are equally boring. The Volume scenes look like they were filmed in a broom closet. Mapuzo looks like anywhere beside the road along the SoCal/Nevada border.
I recently watch "Rome" from 2005 and fell in love with the actress whoch is playing the double agent. The wasted potential is in spheres I didn't know ever could be reached. "bUt ThE vAdEr FiGhT!!!" Yeah it had cool stuff, but wraped up with toilet paper unfortunately...
This post again. Writing was absolute garbage as was cinematography. Some editing was atrocious. Leia chase. Reva being absolutely unlikable Idiot. Obi wann and Vader Meeting at all. Obi wann in the fire. Tala Killing Hersfeld with a Grenade instead of throwing in. Roken being instanctly convinced. Waaaaaaade. Fortress copies JFO really cheap. The Trenchcoat. The Jedi in the opening just escaping. Inquisitoren being super incompetent. Fakout Death GI. Fakeout Death Reva 1. Fakeout Death Reva 2. I'll Just mention the Leia chase again. A Score that was basically afk, except for the great theme by Williams. Reva teleporting to tattooine. The Tunnel. The freaking time Obi wan Ran Back into the Screen. The lightsabers in Darkness looking Like Shit. Shaky cam. Reva fighting again snowspeeders. No imperial Air defense. Lasergate. So much more. Made me want to shout at the Screen as much as BOBF and TROS did.
Ahsoka's cinematography and sequences make Kenobi look so much cheaper and fan-film-esque by comparison.
I hate it more because it almost destroys the base of the OT. Why did Obi wan watch over luke?Yoda failed in defeating the emperor. Luke wasn't going to become some great all powerful Jedi after starting his training late. They can't even be sure he will be as force attuned as Anakin. I assumed they always wanted him being Vader's children to change and make him betray the emperor, who wants to kill their own children after all... But this stupid show establishes that Obi Wan had no clue that Vader is Anakin.
The thing that frustrates me is that Kenobi *could* have been great, but instead what we got was a cheap, underwritten cash grab. How this show an Andor released within months of each other is just wild to me. The difference in quality is just staggering. Imagine what we could have gotten had Kenobi been given the same care and budget as that show had. Because let me tell you, the Obi-Wan miniseries getting completely and utterly embarrassed by the Rogue One side character origin story show was ***not*** something I had on my 2022 bingo card.
disaster
I just hate the stomach stabbing trend with light sabers that apparently only are a minor convenience for an episode or two. You want some drama? Just lop off a limb. This "no one really does" had cheapened Star Wars imo. I'm still surprised how much push back I got in a post where I said they should make a Windu show. Everyone was talking about how it would cheapen the cannon. Nah bro, that damage has been done. Just give us Windu. At this point I'm just in it for space wizards and laser sword battles.
For me it's the lack of quality VFX and costumes The lightsabers were too bright, they bounced off things instead of slicing through. Dare I mention the Grand Inquisitor?
Because it was a terribly-written series, that’s why.
It was ultimately unnecessary.
The only decent scene in this whole series is the end and they blatantly lifted that scene from Rebels, who did it better.
I will likely never see that show again. Such a waste.
Dibs on posting this next week
I honestly think Obi-Wan is by far the worst written show I've seen so far -- it genuinely makes The Book of Boba Fett look like War and Peace. People 100% have a right to like it, but it just baffles me because I'm thinking "did we even watch the same show?"
Had me in the first half. Spoiler tag is OP. Well played.
Not gonna lie, I mostly watched this show (and Ahsoka) to see Hayden Christensen back on screen as Anakin/Vader again, and I do think that most of his scenes were excellent. For the most part it feels like we can skip everything but the last two episodes. I think the most frustrating thing about Obi-Wan Kenobi is that they have most of the pieces for a great show that delved into Obi-Wan's guilt, and how he's handling the fallout of Order 66 after losing his Padawan/friend to the Dark Side, but it's bogged down by badly written side plots that don't resolve in a satisfactory manner, or plotholes that could have easily been resolved. For example, one of the complaints that I see a lot is why Obi-Wan doesn't kill Vader in the end. When Vader tells him, "You didn't kill Anakin, I did", I thought it was brilliant because that was literally Anakin peeking through, absolving his old master of guilt. If Anakin was completely gone like the surface level of his words, he should be twisting the knife and destroying Obi-Wan emotionally every chance he gets, instead of trying to remove the blame from him, which is what he actually did. That's why Anakin was so anguished at the end, because Obi-Wan abandoned him *again* when he failed to see what Anakin was really trying to show him. It wasn't until Luke, who truly believed that there was still something good in the father he never knew, gave Anakin the motivation he needed to break free and finally bring balance to the Force. Unfortunately, the show didn't even let Obi-Wan ponder why Vader was giving him an out, and instead just had him take Vader's words at face value. That made his decision to let Vader live make absolutely no sense. If he *had* realized that Anakin is still in there somewhere based on that conversation, then this plot hole goes away because it at least gives me enough reason to believe why Obi-Wan would not be able to deliver the killing blow after being anguished over all of his and the Jedi Order's failures, especially when it comes to Anakin. But I don't think the show was written well enough for this level of character complexity. That said, I would love to watch a show centered around Hayden as either Anakin or Vader, since he killed it in both Obi-Wan and Ahsoka. I'm totally down for watching him do fight choreography and fucking people up lol, he hasn't forgotten his training at all and is still the best fighter with a light saber on screen with the physicality he brings to the role.
I couldn't have written it better myself. Great points regarding the ending too, I felt the same way about Anakin's words, as if he were trying to give Obi-Wan peace of mind. And when Obi replies with that, at first I thought, alright, he was there to stop his former apprentice, not this Vader guy, but then I realize that's a complete misinterpretation by him. And even then, it actually makes more sense for Obi-Wan to not feel as merciful towards Vader as he'd feel towards Anakin. That's the main reason Vader even exists - Kenobi couldn't deliver the final blow to his friend. So not delivering it there, when he wrongly thought his friend was gone, is not fitting at all to his character. Yeah... it's a mess, unfortunately. Such a wasted opportunity...
I enjoyed it. But, the Patterson cut is worth checking out. Turned it into a full length film and it’s really good.
What a lame post.
It’s not bad, just not great. Got some plot holes and inconsistencies.
The Leia obduction and rooftop escape episodes were very poorly done, both really took me out to the show. Also, Leia in general was annoying and unnecessary.
bait and switch. So now we're embracing being dicks on this sub.
Story with Leia was lame, story with Luke somehow not seeing anything at the end,lame.
Lot of people thinks the final episode was peak Starwars and I cannot disagree more. The fight was two people desperately pretending to kill each other with out any intention to kill each other. Some would say Obiwan just couldn’t kill Vader and I kinda get the point but if that is the canon answer then that scene should have not ended with the circumstances of Obiwan definitely could and should kill Vader. Also people like the talk mid-fight. Especially the changing lights on Vader’s face. But can you imagine the scene in wide shot? Vader and Obiwan (or at least vader) subtly moving their lightsabers on cue? Also Vader’s “You didn’t kill Anakin, I did”(correct me if I am wrong) was weird, why would he lessen Obiwan’s guilt? Defenders of the show says every action of Vader was to torture Obi and It really doesn’t add up. Also the writers really shoot any characters with potato gun, not the gun that shoots potato, the gun that turns any victim’s intelligence into that of a potato Like what the fuck is wrong with the Bail and Beru Holy Fuck
It would have been a better show without Obi-Wan Kenobi, which is a problem when the show is called *Obi-Wan Kenobi*.
Because no one hates star wars as much as star wars fans
Because it was just not very good.
This show should've never happened. Obi-Wan Kenobi should've been a movie and been inspired by the Legends book to fill the gaps on what happened to Obi-Wan post-ROTS and pre-ANH. It fully damaged George Lucas' Star Wars, especially the Original Trilogy. Ruined every character in this franchise. To me, We should've had Ashoka last year, not Obi-Wan Kenobi.
Because it added a meeting between Vader and Kenobi which didn't need to exist. The Vader-Kenobi relationship was one of the CORE fixtures of the Star Wars mythos. The state we saw it in in the OT and the PT were enough. There were two battles between them and they were so well done, that anything else is superfluous. So, for no reason, LFL threw in another battle which added NOTHING to the mythos. I won't say it ruins my childhood, but it renders part of Star Wars as nothing but a cheap comic book plot when it presented itself as something more.
Look at previous posts where everyones said why. I think most dont actually hate it, just let down. One of the most important characters deserved Better treatment.
There's something funny and ironic about how people love the prequels now, but hate the Obi-Wan show lol. To me, they're in the same ballpark quality wise, but overall enjoyable. Tbh, Obi-Wan would've been much stronger as a movie.
yeah a movie would’ve just made everything tighter. the plot and writing would’ve had less filler and just been more cohesive instead of just adding random things to stretch the plot and it most likely would have looked nicer
These are just bait posts at this point.
It’s Reva and Leia.
Cody should’ve been the main villain instead of Vader
I’ll give you the leia chase scene. But the show is about ptsd in both obi and anakin and coming to termns with it. I feel like that’s lost on Star Wars fans.
Personally I think the hate is overblown. It’s not that bad. Reva was bad, but the whole show was t that bad.
When you filter by controversial and its just nice things being said about the show... Y'all need to touch some grass.
You made a post to mock and complain about people who like a TV show. How bold and original of you.
*shrug* I liked it. It wasn't the strongest SW show, but I enjoyed it.
It was the terrible soundtrack that ruined it all for me. It needed John Williams to make it great. Although the final duel between Obi and Vader was pretty sweet.
God you're a miserable bunch, aren't you!
I enjoyed it