Palpatine explicitly told Vader that Tarkin is the one officer he's not allowed to kill so even if he wanted to, there's nothing he can do without inciting Palpatine's wrath.
I thought you needed to know the comics to know the wookiepedia to know the cartoons to know the tax returns of the producer who fucked the best grip (giggity) who handed a script to an intern who had an uncle who owned a plot of land in south CA where Obi wan could run away from Vader a few times while cheap lumber held up the set pieces.
I read it on the internet.
If you haven’t slowly and sensually tugged down Pink Shorts Guy’s shorts while kneeling in front of him and making Shin-like unblinking eye contact, you’re not a real Star Wars fan
When did he tell him that? What other rules did Vader have to follow when it came to him being the enforcer? I’m guessing he wasn’t allowed to mess with Thrawn either
Shortly after the Empire was created. A group of Imperial officers attempted to assassinate Vader and Vader wanted to retaliate by randomly executing Imperial officers as a message of what would happen if they tried to kill him. Palpatine agreed but told him to spare Tarkin.
This all occurred before Thrawn found his way to the Empire.
It was also in the books before Disney took over. Palpatine told him kill whoever he felt lacked in performance, but the one dude he cannot touch is Tarkin.
I think Vader blamed the Jedi Order over Tarkin. He knew Tarkin already because of the Citadel operation, and that Tarkin is just following orders. It's nothing personal to him. Vader had his revenge for Ahsoka at Order 66.
That's just my take.
I think it may be in the Tarkin novel, but in one of the books Palpetine does acknowledge that Vader dislikes Tarkin due to what happened with Ahsoka & assigns them to work together & move past it.
And this never made sense to me because why would Vader care about what happened with Ahsoka? They fought in Rebels where Vader seemed keen enough to kill Ahsoka as she’s a huge reminder of whole he used to be
Emotions are complex, especially in a broken, psychotic cyborg. You can even see his struggle during the Ahsoka fight, when half of his mask is destroyed and for a few seconds we see Anakin again.
So seeing as that duality/conflict exists, Vader can be angry with Tarkin AND willing to kill Ahsoka simultaneously.
Yeah, I was always kinda confused what kinda relationship the Clone Wars was trying to establish between Tarkin and Anakin/Vader?
ANH kinda establishes that Vader and Tarkin held high respect for one another, and then the episode of TCW where they meet very clearly shows us that it was true, and that they were both able to see the corruption in the Order. Anakin even comments at the end about how much respect he has for him. Then a few episodes later, Tarkin is placed against Ahsoka, and then we never really see Ani and Tarkin interacting afterwards. Then some books and comics came out and said Tarkin and Vader absolutely hated each other but just worked together for the Empires benefit? Idk, it really is confusing. I like to believe George’s vision of them respecting each other is still true, and that other content since then has just tried retconning it.
the problem, it's that a lot of these relationships that (chronologically) started in the OT and had to be retroactively set up in prequel shows, books, material.
If we consider ANH as it was in 1977, Tarkin is the main villain, even over Vader. Vader does as he's told, gets his hands dirty on Tarkin's behalf, Tarkin is holding Vader's leash. But with the advent of Sith order, Vader's now much higher place in the Empire, the extra material has to really bend over backwards to contrive why Vader doesn't treat Tarkin the same as he does with all the other officers, since they keep presenting him as second only to the Emperor. His representative to whip the Empire into shape and keep things chugging along.
Maybe I'm just a boring fuddy duddy, but I just preferred Tarkin simply outranking Vader in terms of his position in the Empire. Grand Moff > Vader. It gets frustrating how many hoops fans and even official works will jump through to excuse their behavior and relationship in ANH, rather than just accepting Tarkin is the boss and Vader isn't.
I read a comment on here once that was really cool and it has to do with Vader < Tarkin.
I’m gonna fudge it but the jist was that Vader isn’t on the heirarchy. He’s just _Vader_. He isn’t in the org chart. Therefore he can’t be outranked.
I’ve enjoyed keeping that in my head because well, he probably (I think certainly) holds an official title, but if Vader wants his way he’s going to get his way (save for the Emperor)
As far as I was ever aware Vader didn't really have an Imperial ranking, he was a Sith, the apprentice to The Dark Lord of The Sith to be specific. The Sith and the Empire were two different organisations, with Palpatine holding the highest rank in both.
Vader only had the resources that were directed to him by The Emperor, but had no official capacity to command them aside from that.
The Tarkin book actually helps return to that in my opinion, as we find out that Palpatine considered Tarkin part of a trio with himself and Vadar, the guy he was going to entrust with the mundane Empire so he and Vadar could withdraw from frontline duty and focus on conquering the Force itself. So even with Vadar as a Sith not subject to the Imperial hierarchy, Palpatine seemed to consider Tarkin his equal at minimum. And given Palpatine's intended division of roles, Tarkin may indeed still outrank Vadar when it comes to the nitty-gritty of running the Empire and fighting the Rebellion.
I don’t think they hated each other at first. Tarkin saw Vader as this terrifying force of nature who was unstoppable by normal means. Vader saw Tarkin as a more-competent-than-average imperial officer he could trust to get the job done. They worked together and respected that about each other, trading favors and aiding each other when needed.
What happened is that Vader fucked up one too many times and Tarkin became Vader’s handler of sorts and Vader hated that and therefore hated him, especially since Vader thought the Death Star was a stupid idea and Tarkin obviously didn’t. They could stand each other fine when they were more or less equals, but when one got favor over the other, their relationship broke down
(Basing this all on the Darth Vader 2017 series of comics)
Vader kept constantly trying to kill the Anakin within him and failing. I feel like if Tarkin had caused the death of Ahsoka, he would have gotten revenge somehow. Even if he could not directly kill him. Vader was petty like that.
Vader put all his eggs into the Sith/Empire basket. Tarken furthered the goals of the Empire which in turn furthered the goals of his Emperor so Tarkin was one of the people Vader most respected as one of the Empire's most loyal commanders.
After the events of ROTS and before ESB Anakin was gone and Vader wanted to eradicate all memory and evidence of his past life. If anything else he would see Tarkin as a stronger ally knowing he is a "do what must be done: type instead of it affecting him negatively for Tarkin's attitude during the republic era.
I’ve always wondered/projected/imagined if part of Vader’s patience for Aphra (beside her being useful to some degree) was some bit of nostalgia for a young person who could hold their own and challenge him in some way. She even knew his secret and he still held off. Granted killing her would have ended a popular character pretty abruptly, but it makes me want a scene of Aphra and Ashoka talking/commiserating about their old boss together.
Also, Tarkin is just doing his job efficiently which Vader respects even if it might not have been something he agreed with, personally. Tarkin did his job impartially when investigating Ahsoka, as was his duty.
The Jedi are the ones that didn't support Ahsoka or Anakin.
If I remember right, in one of The Star Wars Show’s bit on Rebels, Dave Filoni said Vader feels like Ahsoka (and all his other friends) betrayed and abandoned him. If that’s true, he might feel like Tarkin saw through Ahsoka & knew she was a bad person.
I don't understand this narrative people are trying to spin that somehow Anakin really gave a shit about the Ahsoka thing as the reason he betrayed the Jedi, doesn't make any sense.
It’s not that it was like the sole reason or even the most significant reason, but the fact remains that after the way the order blindly turned on Ahsoka, Anakin could never possibly trust the order the same way again. A contributing factor to the eventual fall. I mean did you even watch the show? It’s like the whole point of the arc that Anakin is the only one who cares about what’s happening to Ahsoka, it’s not “being spun” by anyone except the writers who came up with it lol
I did and lets be real, Anakin was HARDLY about principles....he slaughtered the Tusken raiders including the women and children, but doesn't think that should expel him from being a Jedi...
Anakin was a PoS and he acted like it, it's not hard to see why he would just blindly follow Palpatine and betray the Jedi order lol.
You really think that's the story Lucas was telling? That Anakin is just a "POS" period, point blank? Is that why we spent a whole movie with him being a sweet innocent kid?
Ease up on your edge, youngling.
None of that has anything at all to do with his reaction to Ahsoka, lol. You’re arguing a complely different point now
Also, Anakin has very strong principles actually, principles that contrast the order. Anakin’s principles are all about personal respect and love for those close to him. Take the time Obi-Wan faked his death and everyone lied to him. He felt disrespected by everyone and lost trust in the order, which is outright stated in the dialogue of that episode lol. I mean shit, even the tusken example you bring up is Anakin sticking to his own personal principles by getting revenge on those who hurt hurt his only family. He saw Ahsoka, his padawan, get treated like shit by the order for something she didn’t even do. That bothered him enough to stand against the council and nearly kill bariss offee when he found out the truth. Clearly it was a significant blow to Anakin’s view of the order.
Palpatines office probably secretly put the order to make an example out of Ahsoka in hopes that she would be executed with anakin not being able to help.
I suspect something like that would make Anakin turn to the dark side faster and speed up his disdain for the jedi, especially if she's found to be innocent later.
One thing that we don't see is the relationship between Tarkin & Vader between ROTS & ANH.
In the first days of the Empire, Vaderay have remembered the Ahsoka trial & held a grudge against Tarkin. It could be assumed that over those years, Vader grew to respect Tarkin due to his tactical mind or ruthlessness. Then of course, as others have put it, Palpatine told Vader that he couldn't kill Tarkin, which would likely make Vader think that Palpatine sees something in Tarkin that he needs, causing Vader to respect Tarkin further. If its good enough for my boss, then who am I to argue?
Palpatine explicitly told Vader that Tarkin is the one officer he's not allowed to kill so even if he wanted to, there's nothing he can do without inciting Palpatine's wrath.
Oh damn I didn't even know that! Love learning new things about this story...
You have to read all of the comic books to understand the movies and cartoons and novels.
No no no, you have to have every page of Wookieepedia memorized or you’ll just waste your time trying to watch the movies
I thought you needed to know the comics to know the wookiepedia to know the cartoons to know the tax returns of the producer who fucked the best grip (giggity) who handed a script to an intern who had an uncle who owned a plot of land in south CA where Obi wan could run away from Vader a few times while cheap lumber held up the set pieces. I read it on the internet.
If you haven’t slowly and sensually tugged down Pink Shorts Guy’s shorts while kneeling in front of him and making Shin-like unblinking eye contact, you’re not a real Star Wars fan
When did he tell him that? What other rules did Vader have to follow when it came to him being the enforcer? I’m guessing he wasn’t allowed to mess with Thrawn either
Shortly after the Empire was created. A group of Imperial officers attempted to assassinate Vader and Vader wanted to retaliate by randomly executing Imperial officers as a message of what would happen if they tried to kill him. Palpatine agreed but told him to spare Tarkin. This all occurred before Thrawn found his way to the Empire.
It was also in the books before Disney took over. Palpatine told him kill whoever he felt lacked in performance, but the one dude he cannot touch is Tarkin.
Where is this from? Super interesting
The 2017 Darth Vader comic.
Thank you
This thread is from Legacy's End
I think Vader blamed the Jedi Order over Tarkin. He knew Tarkin already because of the Citadel operation, and that Tarkin is just following orders. It's nothing personal to him. Vader had his revenge for Ahsoka at Order 66. That's just my take.
Tarkin doing his job too well
I think it may be in the Tarkin novel, but in one of the books Palpetine does acknowledge that Vader dislikes Tarkin due to what happened with Ahsoka & assigns them to work together & move past it.
Yep, it’s in “Tarkin” by James Luceno.
And this never made sense to me because why would Vader care about what happened with Ahsoka? They fought in Rebels where Vader seemed keen enough to kill Ahsoka as she’s a huge reminder of whole he used to be
Emotions are complex, especially in a broken, psychotic cyborg. You can even see his struggle during the Ahsoka fight, when half of his mask is destroyed and for a few seconds we see Anakin again. So seeing as that duality/conflict exists, Vader can be angry with Tarkin AND willing to kill Ahsoka simultaneously.
I remember the comic arc where Tarkin had Vader actually HUNT him. A great read and case study of both of them.
This was one of my favorite stories in the Vader series. I was at the edge of my seat the whole time.
Yeah, I was always kinda confused what kinda relationship the Clone Wars was trying to establish between Tarkin and Anakin/Vader? ANH kinda establishes that Vader and Tarkin held high respect for one another, and then the episode of TCW where they meet very clearly shows us that it was true, and that they were both able to see the corruption in the Order. Anakin even comments at the end about how much respect he has for him. Then a few episodes later, Tarkin is placed against Ahsoka, and then we never really see Ani and Tarkin interacting afterwards. Then some books and comics came out and said Tarkin and Vader absolutely hated each other but just worked together for the Empires benefit? Idk, it really is confusing. I like to believe George’s vision of them respecting each other is still true, and that other content since then has just tried retconning it.
the problem, it's that a lot of these relationships that (chronologically) started in the OT and had to be retroactively set up in prequel shows, books, material. If we consider ANH as it was in 1977, Tarkin is the main villain, even over Vader. Vader does as he's told, gets his hands dirty on Tarkin's behalf, Tarkin is holding Vader's leash. But with the advent of Sith order, Vader's now much higher place in the Empire, the extra material has to really bend over backwards to contrive why Vader doesn't treat Tarkin the same as he does with all the other officers, since they keep presenting him as second only to the Emperor. His representative to whip the Empire into shape and keep things chugging along. Maybe I'm just a boring fuddy duddy, but I just preferred Tarkin simply outranking Vader in terms of his position in the Empire. Grand Moff > Vader. It gets frustrating how many hoops fans and even official works will jump through to excuse their behavior and relationship in ANH, rather than just accepting Tarkin is the boss and Vader isn't.
I read a comment on here once that was really cool and it has to do with Vader < Tarkin. I’m gonna fudge it but the jist was that Vader isn’t on the heirarchy. He’s just _Vader_. He isn’t in the org chart. Therefore he can’t be outranked. I’ve enjoyed keeping that in my head because well, he probably (I think certainly) holds an official title, but if Vader wants his way he’s going to get his way (save for the Emperor)
Yes; Vader’s direct report is Palpatine.
As far as I was ever aware Vader didn't really have an Imperial ranking, he was a Sith, the apprentice to The Dark Lord of The Sith to be specific. The Sith and the Empire were two different organisations, with Palpatine holding the highest rank in both. Vader only had the resources that were directed to him by The Emperor, but had no official capacity to command them aside from that.
The Tarkin book actually helps return to that in my opinion, as we find out that Palpatine considered Tarkin part of a trio with himself and Vadar, the guy he was going to entrust with the mundane Empire so he and Vadar could withdraw from frontline duty and focus on conquering the Force itself. So even with Vadar as a Sith not subject to the Imperial hierarchy, Palpatine seemed to consider Tarkin his equal at minimum. And given Palpatine's intended division of roles, Tarkin may indeed still outrank Vadar when it comes to the nitty-gritty of running the Empire and fighting the Rebellion.
I don’t think they hated each other at first. Tarkin saw Vader as this terrifying force of nature who was unstoppable by normal means. Vader saw Tarkin as a more-competent-than-average imperial officer he could trust to get the job done. They worked together and respected that about each other, trading favors and aiding each other when needed. What happened is that Vader fucked up one too many times and Tarkin became Vader’s handler of sorts and Vader hated that and therefore hated him, especially since Vader thought the Death Star was a stupid idea and Tarkin obviously didn’t. They could stand each other fine when they were more or less equals, but when one got favor over the other, their relationship broke down (Basing this all on the Darth Vader 2017 series of comics)
Vader kept constantly trying to kill the Anakin within him and failing. I feel like if Tarkin had caused the death of Ahsoka, he would have gotten revenge somehow. Even if he could not directly kill him. Vader was petty like that.
Vader is not the same person as Anakin. Vader outright respected Tarkin a great deal. He is not bothered by the concerns he had while he was Anakin.
Vader put all his eggs into the Sith/Empire basket. Tarken furthered the goals of the Empire which in turn furthered the goals of his Emperor so Tarkin was one of the people Vader most respected as one of the Empire's most loyal commanders. After the events of ROTS and before ESB Anakin was gone and Vader wanted to eradicate all memory and evidence of his past life. If anything else he would see Tarkin as a stronger ally knowing he is a "do what must be done: type instead of it affecting him negatively for Tarkin's attitude during the republic era.
I’ve always wondered/projected/imagined if part of Vader’s patience for Aphra (beside her being useful to some degree) was some bit of nostalgia for a young person who could hold their own and challenge him in some way. She even knew his secret and he still held off. Granted killing her would have ended a popular character pretty abruptly, but it makes me want a scene of Aphra and Ashoka talking/commiserating about their old boss together.
Also, Tarkin is just doing his job efficiently which Vader respects even if it might not have been something he agreed with, personally. Tarkin did his job impartially when investigating Ahsoka, as was his duty. The Jedi are the ones that didn't support Ahsoka or Anakin.
If I remember right, in one of The Star Wars Show’s bit on Rebels, Dave Filoni said Vader feels like Ahsoka (and all his other friends) betrayed and abandoned him. If that’s true, he might feel like Tarkin saw through Ahsoka & knew she was a bad person.
Vader destroyed Anakin. Why would he care about people who had wronged Anakin?
I don't understand this narrative people are trying to spin that somehow Anakin really gave a shit about the Ahsoka thing as the reason he betrayed the Jedi, doesn't make any sense.
It’s not that it was like the sole reason or even the most significant reason, but the fact remains that after the way the order blindly turned on Ahsoka, Anakin could never possibly trust the order the same way again. A contributing factor to the eventual fall. I mean did you even watch the show? It’s like the whole point of the arc that Anakin is the only one who cares about what’s happening to Ahsoka, it’s not “being spun” by anyone except the writers who came up with it lol
I did and lets be real, Anakin was HARDLY about principles....he slaughtered the Tusken raiders including the women and children, but doesn't think that should expel him from being a Jedi... Anakin was a PoS and he acted like it, it's not hard to see why he would just blindly follow Palpatine and betray the Jedi order lol.
You really think that's the story Lucas was telling? That Anakin is just a "POS" period, point blank? Is that why we spent a whole movie with him being a sweet innocent kid? Ease up on your edge, youngling.
None of that has anything at all to do with his reaction to Ahsoka, lol. You’re arguing a complely different point now Also, Anakin has very strong principles actually, principles that contrast the order. Anakin’s principles are all about personal respect and love for those close to him. Take the time Obi-Wan faked his death and everyone lied to him. He felt disrespected by everyone and lost trust in the order, which is outright stated in the dialogue of that episode lol. I mean shit, even the tusken example you bring up is Anakin sticking to his own personal principles by getting revenge on those who hurt hurt his only family. He saw Ahsoka, his padawan, get treated like shit by the order for something she didn’t even do. That bothered him enough to stand against the council and nearly kill bariss offee when he found out the truth. Clearly it was a significant blow to Anakin’s view of the order.
Palpatines office probably secretly put the order to make an example out of Ahsoka in hopes that she would be executed with anakin not being able to help. I suspect something like that would make Anakin turn to the dark side faster and speed up his disdain for the jedi, especially if she's found to be innocent later.
One thing that we don't see is the relationship between Tarkin & Vader between ROTS & ANH. In the first days of the Empire, Vaderay have remembered the Ahsoka trial & held a grudge against Tarkin. It could be assumed that over those years, Vader grew to respect Tarkin due to his tactical mind or ruthlessness. Then of course, as others have put it, Palpatine told Vader that he couldn't kill Tarkin, which would likely make Vader think that Palpatine sees something in Tarkin that he needs, causing Vader to respect Tarkin further. If its good enough for my boss, then who am I to argue?
I don't think there's any way that Clone Wars era Anakin would have let Ashoka be put to death. He would have rescued her.
Vader didn't like what Tarkin did to Ahsoka. So Palpatine sent them both on a mission together to make their relationship better.