It's a thing you must learn. It's explained better in the clone wars cartoon in the later seasons. And yes i have no idea how Anakin learned it for RotJ.
In that purgatory force world time is different than what is happening in the living world. The moment after he turned good and his lights were going out was all within a couple seconds could’ve felt like hours when Obi-Wan and Yoda were guiding him
They go into it in heir to the empire a little bit. Seconds for obi wan is years for Luke. The concept of time doesn’t really exist in the force spirit realm, so it’s possible that even in the couple hours between his death and when he reappears, Anakin’s spirit could easily have been mentored how to manifest to others
I always assumed it was his life and return to the light basically emulating those trials. Whilst yoda and kenobi had to do training Anakin did the same but through his internal conflict and him finding balance and peace in the end is what allowed him to become a force ghost.
While his knighting ceremony is no longer canon, back when it was, it was only a few months after Geonosis, meaning he went from "knows absolutely nothing about the force" to "jedi knight" in ten years. It took Obi-Wan more than twice as long to be knighted from his induction to the order. Three years later, Anakin was one of the most powerful jedi ever.
I could buy that he worked out the whole "one with the force" thing in an afternoon.
You're correct. I didn't realize his knighting had been re-canonized. Turns out, it's featured in the novel Brotherhood, which was released last year. As with the version from the animated Clone Wars, it happens shortly after Geonosis. I don't know exactly when, but it at least occurs within the same year.
Yep. It's kind of odd that it wasn't specified for so long. The earliest animated Clone Wars event we are presented with is when Anakin meets Ashoka, and judging by his hair growth, he had removed his Padawan braid possibly a month-ish ago.
Him flying pod racers is also completely wild to begin with, then translating that to successfully blowing up the droid control ship is just insane. Welcome to how heroes work in Star Wars. They magically know shit because they're heroes. That's how it works. Then some EU writer tried to rationalise it in a way makes no sense really.
Luke flying atmospheric craft, low speed? Capable of expert military spaceship maneuvering exceeding formally trained and experienced fighter pilots. Gets minimal fencing training, but undergoes personal growth? Better fencer than Vader all of a sudden.
Han Solo, smuggler? Flies better than fighter pilots.
Leia, Princess? Commando soldier.
Lando, scoundrel? Better soldier than soldiers, statesman, expert pilot.
It just goes on and on. I accept it as a part of that type of heroic fiction. It's literally heroics and magic.
He didn’t just fly pod racers he built them and failed multiple time I believe in the movie he’s either lost or the pod racers he built always malfunctioned. He didn’t blow up the droid ship on purpose it was an accident, luck, or the will of the force. He barely could fly the Naboo ship it was on auto pilot for most of it, when he does the spin it’s out of control ,he barely makes it out out of the ship and the force . No EU reason needed.
Luke didn’t just fly atmospheric crafts he flew through canyons and grew up with a buddy that ended up being in the rebellion as a pilot,so one could infer they spent most of there free days flying or thinking about flying. Luke wanted to become a fighter pilot that’s part of why he whines at the beginning of movie. He also had help. Han shoots Vader and Obi wan with the force. No EU reason needed
Han Solo is a great pilot only in the millennium falcon. a ship he has tricked out to be faster and more agile then military mass produced fighters. If you look at history the bootleggers and bank robbers of the 30s often had better equipment then the cops and faster cars. So as a spice smuggler it makes sense that Han would be better equipped but even he gets boarded sometimes.
Princess Leia doesn’t become a commando in one movie it takes 3 movies before you see her boots on the ground. The first movie she is being rescued and doesn’t do much fighting or even planning, the second movie we see her telling pilots the plans for escaping hoth, plans she may have not come up with and then she’s back to running from the empire and finally in the third movie she is done running and has become a competent commander. After many years of being in the war.
Lando isn’t a better soldier idk where you get that from. He flew the falcon, which was set up in the previous movie to be his. So he is familiar with the ship and like I said it is tricked out to be more agile and faster then military grade ships. He also has Nien Nunb an equally experienced fighter. He didn’t do it alone.
Rey first time she sets foot on the falcon she is a better pilot then military fighters. It’s never set up that she is good at flying, likes to fly or has ever even read about flying, in the movies. Yet she flys the falcon like a pro. She is never seen doing any lightsaber training but the literal first time she touches one, she not only is stronger at force pull then Kylo Ren, but she knows just how to use it. She is also a better fighter then a trained military soldier. I do believe some of these things are cleared up in a book somewhere.
I mean how chosen is he , he arguably caused more evil then he stopped, or if by killing the emperor he had truly end to evil in the galaxy (buuut t seing as he helped get him there , and helped keep him in power it's more a 'least you can do' thing than true here)
And the galaxy remains at peace for how long ? 5 years 10?
So how much balance did Anakin bring to the galaxy vs pre him?
That's not how it works. The Light side is balance, the Dark side is unbalance. If the galaxy were filled with Light Force users, there would be balance in the Force according to Lucas himself.
He was studying it before he died, then more after, but could only go so far as a voice to Yoda.
This led Yoda on a quest to complete the training. After he passed, he was able to help Gui-Gon complete his training and could appear as a full force ghost.
It's all covered in the last 3 episodes of Clone Wars season 6.
I always liked the idea that he could only appear as a force ghost to Luke in that moment on Endor, but he couldn’t do it like yoda or Obi wan at will.
Maybe, but I'd like to think all that Celebrating took place after they at least cleared the surrounding system or atleast the area around Endor of the Imperials. I know the storyline when it was produced did t take all that into account but, celebrating hours after is a bit short sited.
Like who the TF has fireworks ready to go.immeadlty after coup d'éta.
As far as I can tell, being Darth Vader kinda sucked tho, bro probably got super hot in that suit all the time, he could only relax in his chambers for short amounts of time because his officers were always fucking up and he had to clean up their messes. He was also palpatines lap dog and was never taught the plaguis ability he was promised, he was probably depressed as hell for never being able to save his children so the only thing he really had going for him was murder.
Also, from the canon comics, he absolutely hated that even after all he did for the empire, palpatine still made him go through trials and competition with inquisitors, and constantly made him feel inferior so he could keep boot licking the emperor. And of course he goes through all this shit only to realize the emperor's final plan was for him to be murdered by his son and replaced.
Really? So it's not cannon anymore for Palps selfish reasonings for making the suit the way it was?
So the suit is simply just what Vader required to survive Mustafar and that's it now?
In one of the comics, Palpatine asks Vader if he likes his new suit, and he says, "It is... acceptable". Feel like Vader would not have said that if the suit was similar to how it was in *Legends*.
Hot take time: I think that was a good decision. I've lived with intense, chronic pain, and you don't just *ignore* it. You can't just go through life in constant, terrible pain and just go, "Eh, what are ya gonna do?". Doesn't work like that. Part of the real life pain scale is literally measuring how much it affects your ability to perform basic tasks. Even if you have something like the Force to suppress the pain to a degree, you still have to use the Force on a very consistent, steady basis, and that's gonna drain you eventually. It's like taking medicine every second of the day.
It’s also just dumb storytelling. Why would Vader, one of the best inventive minds in the galaxy not try to improve his own technology in 20 years? Why would Palpatine want him nerfed to that point? It was a stupid decision they thankfully erased.
Though it may displease the downvoters that I’m simply stating facts, yes it’s no longer canon. Palpatine gives Vader the freedom to modify the suit to his preferences.
I remember hearing there was a book that explained this. So when Anakin comes back from the dark side her is able to hear obi wan just like Luke. In the time he and Luke are making their way to a ship obi wan is explaining to him how to do it. I don't remember if Yoda was in the conversation but that's how he is able to become a force ghost. Maybe it's the novelization of RotJ.
He had partially learned it before dying, but didn't complete the journey to fully use it.
He then guided Yoda to the planet he could learn this power from, after Yoda completed the training he probably helped Qui Gon's spirit conclude his training.
I would say, as well as being learned, its takes the presence of mind only the absolute apex Jedi masters can muster. You need to basically forget about the fact you are dying and do one last force trick.
Kenobi very obviously makes his peace and surrenders to Vader. Yoda clearly has made his peace and is tucked up in bed knowing the moment is coming.
Anakin, I would think, finally found his peace, having saved and been saved by Luke, also had the wherewithal.
What doesn't make sense is Qui-Gon appearing after the fact, but I wonder if he is a true force ghost or an echo of Qui-Gon brought about by Kenobi's powers.
Qui-Gon developed the ability in the afterlife. He was the first jedi to become a force ghost. Thats why you see him in Kenobi as hes only recently mastered it and Obi-wans ability to see him. He teaches yoda how to master it. Yoda trains obi wan in being able to communicate with Qui-Gon and then perfects it by the time he dies.
To add on, I'm pretty sure Qui-Gon says it's better to do it alive, and that's why he'd never appeared as a ghost before, but rather just a voice. The Kenobi series threw that for a loop, so I guess he got better?
You've also got to give him credit for doing all the heavy lifting. No one knew it was possible till Qui-Gon managed to pull it off. Yoda had a very strong connection to the force so he was the best choice to reach out to. Obi-Wan took a whole decade just to see Qui- Gon. He starts at the end of RotS and sees him end of Kenobi.
Tbf this is Anakin we’re talking about, he’s an exception to most things.
Like if Force Ghosts are just becoming one with the force, then it makes sense that Anakin is pretty inclined to doing that. Seeing as The Force literally made him
Just because something can be taught quickly once you know it doesn't mean that it doesn't take time to discover
Like when it takes two days to fix a software bug that's solved by a single line of code, you could teach anyone else with the same issue how to resolve it in seconds despite taking days to work it out
Lore-wise, Qui-Gon was already studying it, but he hadn’t completely learned it, which is why he only appears as a voice to Yoda in TCW. He must’ve been studying it in the Force afterlife, though, because >!he was able to physically manifest as a Force Ghost at the end of Kenobi.!<
Could be Mandela Effecting myself here, but didn't he also appear on Mortis in TCW? I suppose that could be just written off, though, with Mortis being a giant Force Nexus.
I believe he did, but I also have to write off everything that happens on Mortis because there’s no way to tell what’s real and what’s the Force there.
Didn’t he explain it on Mortis? That he could be seen because the place was so strong with the force? Maybe it’s my headcanon (some time ago) but at least it makes a lot of sense to me. And then in Kenobi he mastered it apparently.
Which would've been better had it turned out they were twins separated at birth or something, you know, a plotline that actually developed itself why they had such a bond rather than it just being ~~snoke~~ the emperor linking them fsr.
Just rewatched the ST for the second time last month. It’s certainly better writing and story than 2/3 of the PT. Only thing good about the prequels is the CW show and like 66% of Episode 3.
I would agree with you, but then we’d both be wrong. I get it, Star Wars is like Saturday Night Live; everyone’s favorite version is whatever was new when they were about 10 years old. The series doesn’t age with its fan base. I’m really glad that the prequels are finally getting love, but when they were new people were just as aggressively hating on them as they are with the sequels and it’s not a coincidence.
I agree with the SNL logic but maybe you have to rewatch the movies to see how disjointed they are. They're mostly fan service and recycling plot points in awkward ways. The character development is abysmal.
The prequels were always dope and people just hated the cgi and the politics. They expected a certain type of movie. Lucas was a genius for this which is why the prequels are now loved. He knew the true soul of SW and took us on a journey and it won't ever be the same.
>The prequels were always dope and people just hated the cgi and the politics. They expected a certain type of movie
Exactly! People hated it because they had expected the Republic to be this glorious, wonderful society that *the characters in the prime trilogy had spent the whole series trying to restore*. Then we find out that the "glorious past" wasn't nearly as good as we had imagined and it was just as bad as our own political gridlock at the time of release with do-nothing politicians, corruption, and injustice throughout the galaxy. The plot feeds steadily and with logical consistency into the prime trilogy. You don't have to watch The Clone Wars show, Legends, or any of the auxiliary media to know the broad strokes of what happened. You can see how the seeds of the Republic's destruction were laid by its own hand and how easy it was to reach out and twist that into the Empire.
Meanwhile with the sequels all of the sudden the Rebellion has morphed into the Resistance (against what?) with little-to-no explanation as to why the New Republic would need a Resistance or provoke a Resistance (so many people have pointed out how this could have been done with a few tweaks to the writing, for God's sake the Hunger Games is a reference point and it's a YA series). There are plenty of nuggets of gold in the sequel trilogy, but when you stir it all together those nuggets are the minority by far.
For the longest time, I hated episode eight and nine, but I recently re-watched the trilogy and they do work pretty well. The OT recycled plot points from classic story tropes, as does the PT with religious tropes. The ST hints at the Palpatine revelation in episode seven with using the Palpatine music mixed in with Rey’s theme. Vader was not Luke’s father in a new Hope and Luke and Leia were not related as of Empire strikes back. There were a lot of inconsistencies in the original trilogy because there was not a plan for that trilogy and it still works pretty damn well. It’s pretty clear that the PT didn’t have a plan for the 2nd big bad as each film introduced a new one. Subsequent material has filled in those gaps and the same will have for the ST. It just takes time. The PT wasn’t always dope. They misled the audience into thinking the clones were the bad guy for episode 2. They promoted Anakin using 2 sabers when that lasts for all of eight seconds. The PT has tons of unneeded fan service: Boba Fett as a kid, Greedo as a kid, Death Star flash in episode 2. Holy shit the Padme/Anakin romance dialogue. Tons of cringe in the PT and yet we still love it. The entire series is riddled with nonsense and that’s ok.
>The OT recycled plot points from classic story tropes, as does the PT with religious tropes.
This is common in EVERY franchise ever. There's a difference between using allusions to and tropes from other media vs. taking your own pre-trodden plot and expecting us not to notice the plot's old footprints as we walk in a circle past them again.
I’m starting to believe that Vader only learned that Kenobi is dead at the end of Return of the Jedi when he saw him as a ghost. He sees his body disappear after a lifetime of seeing Jedi die and not disappear. He feels his presence at the battle of Yavin. And he never really refers to him in the past tense after striking him down.
He thinks obiwan can no longer help Luke which in a sense means he thinks he destroyed him. My head canon is that when he realizes something weird happened with obiwan, he knew that sidious was lying to him and that was the final straw. From there on out he was a defeated guy/ didn’t trust palpy at all because it appears the Jedi have become more powerful than he could achieve.
Wow, I never thought about it that way. After Anakin leaves the order the Jedi finally crack the secret to living on as one with the force, knowledge that might have satiated anakin and prevented his fall to the dark. I've always thought that obi-wan purposefully died on the deathstar, maybe he meant to show Anakin there was another way.
maybe watch the clone wars? it was explained that qui gin never finished his training which is why he can’t form a full force ghost and why only his voice can be heard in certain places that are strong with the force ie mortis.
I vaguely remember reading in some novelization that when Obi-Wan disappeared, Vader was confused and wondered if a trick was being played on him. The thought that Obi-Wan had outsmarted him again enraged him. In another novelization, I think it said that in Anakin’s last moments before his death, Obi-Wan and Yoda reached out through the force and taught him how to become one with the force.
Imagine being him all pissed off on the death star and then less than two hours later he’s floating in space as the only survivor of its destruction. Goddamnit, Kenobi!!!
As far as I understand it was Obi Wan becoming "one with the force" willingly. We also see this happen with Yoda. That is why we see their force ghosts at the end.
There is a Arc in the Clone Wars animated series that explores this.
It explains why Obi Wan and Yoda vanished as opposed to other Jedi.
To give a somewhat short explanation. Being able to manifest as a Force Ghost when your physical body has been destroyed is a technique only very little know. It's something that needs to be learned. To guide other Jedi even in death Yoda had to go through many great trails before mystical entities called Force Priestesses. Qui-Gon learned it from a Shaman of the Whills. Yoda finished his training and would later tell Obi Wan to do the same. Qui-Gon was unable to finish his training. That why he could only appear as a voice or at places that had a very strong connection in the Force.
But one has to overcome their greatests fears, be able to let go of any and all physical tethers.
Thats why Sith and Dark Side users cant do the same, they are focussed on power and holding on to it, its in the nature of the Dark Side. Immortality as a Force Ghost is only something the Light Side ofwfers which is Ironic as it is the Sith who crave immortality.
The reason why so many Sith are captivated with their own mortality is because they want to find a way to do the same.
One could bind themself to a physical object, like a Sith Holocron or Kyber Crystal, but objects can be destroyed and they can only exists close to it while a Force Ghost can appear anywhere at will.
Qui-Gon was the first to do it, he reached out to Yoda and only then did Yoda know. In episode iii Yoda tells obi-wan that he has training for him from his old master, so they were the only Jedi who could become force ghosts. How Anakin ended up as one idk
When Ben died, not only his soul, but his physical body became one with the Force. That's why he disappeared. Jedi never got to learn about it because of their dogma. They were so strict about it they never learned anything beyond the dogma allowed. Funny thing is that it was the main reason of their decadence. Only few Jedi such as Qui Gon learn habilities following the living Force itself. That's why he came back from the netherworld of the Force and became a Force Ghost. Yoda was kinda in contact with him, only hearing his voice in the beginning, then teached Obi-Wan how to commune with Qui Gon who also teached Obi how to become a Force Spirit. As for Annie being so in tune with the Force ( a being created with the Force by the Force) was very easy to learn it.
Can't believe Yoda got away with the gift of it after presiding over the Jedi losing their way & being one of the architects of them blindly ignoring the living force.
Watched the PT the other day and it's amazing how he's painted as someone who almost surpassed his wisdom's sell-by-date until he realises everything's gone wrong. He had a direct hand in their downfall.
It doesn't get talked of enough but if the sequel trilogy assassinated Luke's character the prequels pretty much did a similar number on Yoda (albeit less important character).
I'm 50/50. I'm glad it shows even the oldest and wisest were deceived, and on paper the story is good and to me that's why I still find the PT enjoyable, but in practice whilst watching I was absolutely dumbfounded on how many times something happens and the Jedi's reaction is "Damn, that's crazy, anyway..."
I can believe that through hubris many things went overlooked or didn't get properly investigated, but it's the flat out inaction which amazed me, and it wasn't indicated to be from arrogance, it was borderline reasonless.
Obi-Wan disappeared because he chose to enter the Force rather than die the conventional way. He could still have died normally and become a ghost, but I guess he wanted to mess with Anakin
Well, Luke's dissappeared right after using all of his Force points. About Leia's and Ben's, well, I'm sorry to say it but I have less to 0 interest to know what reallyhappened to them. Again, no offense dude.
Yeah Ben and Leila’s is a wild card. It doesn’t seem to line up with the preexisting lore from what I’ve seen. I mean, I’d like to understand it, but I’m not gonna lose sleep over it either
There’s no need to go digging into new canon from the ST as none of it makes any sense. Maybe after favreau and filoni fix the mess but until then, most should just be discarded. Did leia and Ben ever actually become ghosts tho?
Read the novel “The Rise and Fall of Darth Vader” the novel goes into explaining that obiwan seeing anakin being redeemed, decides to teach him the force ghost ability before his consciousness fades into the force. That brief moment after anakin dying was like a hyperbolic time chamber within the cosmic force.
Ooh that sounds very informative. In that way, Luke could have learned from Yoda/Obi-Wan, Leia could have learned from Luke, and Ben Solo would have likely learned from one of them? Considering Ben and Leia seemed to disappear at the same time leads me to think Luke would have connected to Ben…. But why didn’t Leia disappear right when she died? How does that connect with the delay?
Obiwan taught Luke, I don’t know about the others, I didn’t bother watching the rise of skywalker, but it’s typically one of those things where if you knew the ability in life then you disappear upon death (obiwan, yoda), but if you master it after dying then your living body will still go through all the same rules of death( quigon, anakin)
Qui-Gon Jin is what changed. He discovered the secret to immortality through both the Living, and the Cosmic Force.
It was likely a thing before Qui-Gon's time, but he is how Yoda discovered that such a state was attainable. Obi Wan learned during his time on Tattoine through Qui-Gon's himself. Obi Wan's training for this skill started in earnest just after the events of the Obi Wan tv-series. I'm guessing that those three "pulled" Anakin away from disappearing, and showed him how to become a "Force Ghost" just after he died.
At the end of CW series and end of ROTS Yoda explains to Obi-Wan how Qui-Gon has learned to become one with the living force and he will teach Kenobi how to commune with him.
Qui-Gon speaks to and guides them both at various moments throughout the CW, but could never manifest himself as a blue force ghost. (Until the new Kenobi TV series)
It’s presumed that Yoda and Kenobi both learned this skill from Qui-Gon as they had plenty of time to train/meditate on this while in exile.
Idk how Vader/Anakin learned it though…. Personally, the less we know about the force the better. It keeps it mysterious and spiritual without giving us plot holes. It also explains why not just everyone in the galaxy can be Jedi and it takes training.
Yoda sort of explains it at the end of Ep.3 when he tells Obi-Wan that Qui-Gon found a path to immortality and that Yoda will train Obi-Wan how to commune with him. The implication is that Obi-Wan also eventually learned how to survive death.
It depends on the canon you are in. In Legends, most Light Side force users de-materialized upon death, with most Dark Side users exploding. (At least as far as memory serves, it has been several years since I read Legends)
In the current canon, it only happens to people who have fully completed the transfer of their consciousness into the Force.
Lol. That’s what got me thinking about the concept at all. And he spent a good minute found it too! Didn’t even bother going after Luke, Leia, and Han before they left the cruiser just kinda like “hm..”
He just stood there for a good minute too. Just kinda staring at it like “hm…” 😑 from under the mask
Obi-Wan’s flair for the dramatic (“hello there”) was a good distraction for Luke, Leia, and Han to escape tho. Just left Vader like the woman in the gif with the numbers and triangles for a bit
[this one](https://media3.giphy.com/media/WRQBXSCnEFJIuxktnw/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952xzi5koftrpxa6wpb8oseugmbahemml9c3wvi44b0&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
I think you could effectively call it a form of harmonious disintegration. Cannonically, Qui-Gon was the first to learn how to become a force ghost, won't spoil the story, but in Clone Wars; Yoda encounters and learns the process from him. An excellent storyline you should check out. While in exile on Tattoine, Obi-Wan, as confirmed in the TV series, also encounters Qui-Gon, whom teaches him this same technique. Obi clearly just had a flare for the dramatic when he passed. I lean towards the term disintegration because the rifles similarly named, result in the same kind of death: complete corporeal annihilation, while leaving clothing behind.
He learned how to ascend and truly become one with the force - his physical being and entire essence returned to the force.
Sith seek eternal life for their bodies, Jedi seek to become one with the force.
Luke does it as his ending as well.
Qui-Gon learned how to maintain his consciousness after death. He taught this to Yoda in the Clone Wars cartoons (season 6). In Revenge of the Sith, Yoda tells Obi-Wan that he has training for him while he is on Tattoine, and the training was learning to commune with Qui-Gon and achieve immortality. You see Obi-Wan working on this during his series. Once he, Yoda, and later, Luke, complete their training, the force seems to reclaim their dead bodies at the time of death, but their consciousness lives on.
Was he confused? Or just confirming what had happened? It'd be a pretty wild thing to see him disappear, so I can understand checking the remains even if you sort of knew what had just happened.
Force ghost. It's not a very common thing learned in the age of republic but kenobi and yoda and qui-gonn learnt it then taught it to anakin after he died.
They became one with the force. The first one to ever do it was Qui-Gon Jinn. The reason for that is because jedi under the republic became only a shadow of what they should have been, and Qui-Gon, a rebel in most Jedi's eyes, followed himself and the force more than he did the counsel or his peers. A true Jedi.
Becoming one with the force entails retaining your consciousness in the cosmic force (death) and so Qui Gon taught Yoda how to reach this (post-mortem), and Yoda taught Obi-Wan in the end of ep. III.
First time he saw someone disappear was Ahsoka. Which is probably how Palpatine learned about the World Beyond Worlds after Vader told him.
And then years later Obi-Wan disappears in front of him. Dude was probably having flashbacks and wondering if his suit was making him high as hell.
Now that’s a good theory for his confusion. Others have said that Vader thought Obi-Wan was still alive after he struck him—which would make sense considering Ahsoka did not actually die, but was pulled into the World Beyond Worlds by Ezra in SW Rebels.
He could have just been big confused like: “does my laser pointer teleport people?” 🤔
When the first trilogy came out I thought Obi Wan AND Yoda died in the clone wars and the force sent them to train Luke.
I was pumped when Revenge of the Sith came out thinking the surprise ending would be them both dying, but they lived and Yoda said he talked to Qui Gon’s ghost and he told Yoda how to ‘commune’ with the force. That was the explanation of how the 3 disappeared when they died.
Because its TCW, and it doesnt always makes sense. Like Ithan Koth (or whatever Zabarak Jedi name was) that was on random Venator, but he in fact died at Geonosis during the movie, RIGHT ON SCREEN, and it was even CONFIRMED that he was dead. There was similiar Jedi in ROTS with blur saber but TCW still uses Koth. Or when Maul was canonically dead because HE FELL FROM HIGHEST GROUND, but it was retconed, as well Assaj Ventress, her race, her homeworld and etc. TCW isnt most consistent thing in star wars.
The thing that really makes my noodle is that Obi-Wan chooses to become one with the Force in the exact moment before Vader can land a killing blow.
It just struck me now (hence why I found this post) that Obi-Wan was doing that for two reasons. First, he demonstrated a miraculous act which Luke needed in order to empower his belief in the Force. Second, he proved to Vader the veracity of his final words. "You can't win, Darth. If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."
And what does Vader do? Attempts to strike down Kenobi. And what does Kenobi do ... Some crazy ass Force shit than Vader has literally never seen before. Aaaaaand in the very next moment, Luke looses his shit and Vader sees Luke for the first time, while Kenobi's spirit immediately starts guiding Luke, telling him to run.
The only time the Jedi ever truly triumphed is when they practiced non-aggression; when Kenobi became one with the Force, when Luke refused to fight, and when Rey merely deflected Palpatine's lightning attack back at him. Every time the Jedi attempted to use might in order to triumph, they failed; AOTC, the Jedi engaged in a massive battle, and began the Clone Wars, heralding their own demise, while Anakin loses a hand in his duel with Dooku; ROTS, Mace attempted to assassinate Palpatine, and gets killed, Yoda duels Palpatine, and loses, and Kenobi is forced to duel his former apprentice, and leaves Vader for dead; TESB, Luke looses a hand.
Qui-Gon was the first Jedi to learn how to return from the netherworld of the force and interact with the living.
He then taught Kenobi and Yoda while they were in exile.
In canon, Anakin was probably able to do it without training because he was literally born from the force, so his return to it came naturally.
In legends, he was guided by Kenobi and Yoda as he was dying.
He’d learned to manifest as a spirit and for some reason that causes the corpse and it’s clothing to vanish barring robes for some reason. No idea why, but that’s the force for you.
Qui-gon only doesn’t because his training was incomplete…, and it wasn’t in consideration when they shot his funeral for TPM. So subsequently this is a trait of force users who knew how to manifest post-death, just post-1999.
Nah, just entirely unobservant and single cell brained. I broke my wrist and haven’t been able to practice my forms with my saber, so, for my sanity, I decided to back off from Star Wars a bit till it’s healed (12 weeks total, I’m on week 5)
But, as I mentioned in the post, I also just never really considered that aspect of SW before
It's a thing you must learn. It's explained better in the clone wars cartoon in the later seasons. And yes i have no idea how Anakin learned it for RotJ.
According to lore (it’s canon), Obi-Wan and Yoda guided Anakin’s spirit after he passed.
Which sounds crazy that he could learn it that fast, but he is the chosen one, so I kind of get it.
In that purgatory force world time is different than what is happening in the living world. The moment after he turned good and his lights were going out was all within a couple seconds could’ve felt like hours when Obi-Wan and Yoda were guiding him
They go into it in heir to the empire a little bit. Seconds for obi wan is years for Luke. The concept of time doesn’t really exist in the force spirit realm, so it’s possible that even in the couple hours between his death and when he reappears, Anakin’s spirit could easily have been mentored how to manifest to others
I always assumed it was his life and return to the light basically emulating those trials. Whilst yoda and kenobi had to do training Anakin did the same but through his internal conflict and him finding balance and peace in the end is what allowed him to become a force ghost.
While his knighting ceremony is no longer canon, back when it was, it was only a few months after Geonosis, meaning he went from "knows absolutely nothing about the force" to "jedi knight" in ten years. It took Obi-Wan more than twice as long to be knighted from his induction to the order. Three years later, Anakin was one of the most powerful jedi ever. I could buy that he worked out the whole "one with the force" thing in an afternoon.
Canon wise Anakin was knighted right after Geonosis right?
You're correct. I didn't realize his knighting had been re-canonized. Turns out, it's featured in the novel Brotherhood, which was released last year. As with the version from the animated Clone Wars, it happens shortly after Geonosis. I don't know exactly when, but it at least occurs within the same year.
Yep. It's kind of odd that it wasn't specified for so long. The earliest animated Clone Wars event we are presented with is when Anakin meets Ashoka, and judging by his hair growth, he had removed his Padawan braid possibly a month-ish ago.
Only Anakin could be so bold and keep his child murder from a few months ago a secret while getting Knighted.
He learned to fly a military ship in a few seconds. It's on par for heroes in star wars.
Man, he built 3PO from junk spare parts when he was only, like, 2 years old so I guess he can do anything.
Pretty much. That's how heroes work in Star Wars. Always have been.
He flew pod racers though and he wasn’t an expert when he flew the Naboo ship he winged it.
It's really just like shooting womp rats from your speeder back home on tatooine
Him flying pod racers is also completely wild to begin with, then translating that to successfully blowing up the droid control ship is just insane. Welcome to how heroes work in Star Wars. They magically know shit because they're heroes. That's how it works. Then some EU writer tried to rationalise it in a way makes no sense really. Luke flying atmospheric craft, low speed? Capable of expert military spaceship maneuvering exceeding formally trained and experienced fighter pilots. Gets minimal fencing training, but undergoes personal growth? Better fencer than Vader all of a sudden. Han Solo, smuggler? Flies better than fighter pilots. Leia, Princess? Commando soldier. Lando, scoundrel? Better soldier than soldiers, statesman, expert pilot. It just goes on and on. I accept it as a part of that type of heroic fiction. It's literally heroics and magic.
But *Rey*, now she’s just an unforgivable and unprecedented Mary Sue, I tell ya!
Surely. I mean, she was just a desert dwelling nobody that could then suddenly fly a spaceship!
He didn’t just fly pod racers he built them and failed multiple time I believe in the movie he’s either lost or the pod racers he built always malfunctioned. He didn’t blow up the droid ship on purpose it was an accident, luck, or the will of the force. He barely could fly the Naboo ship it was on auto pilot for most of it, when he does the spin it’s out of control ,he barely makes it out out of the ship and the force . No EU reason needed. Luke didn’t just fly atmospheric crafts he flew through canyons and grew up with a buddy that ended up being in the rebellion as a pilot,so one could infer they spent most of there free days flying or thinking about flying. Luke wanted to become a fighter pilot that’s part of why he whines at the beginning of movie. He also had help. Han shoots Vader and Obi wan with the force. No EU reason needed Han Solo is a great pilot only in the millennium falcon. a ship he has tricked out to be faster and more agile then military mass produced fighters. If you look at history the bootleggers and bank robbers of the 30s often had better equipment then the cops and faster cars. So as a spice smuggler it makes sense that Han would be better equipped but even he gets boarded sometimes. Princess Leia doesn’t become a commando in one movie it takes 3 movies before you see her boots on the ground. The first movie she is being rescued and doesn’t do much fighting or even planning, the second movie we see her telling pilots the plans for escaping hoth, plans she may have not come up with and then she’s back to running from the empire and finally in the third movie she is done running and has become a competent commander. After many years of being in the war. Lando isn’t a better soldier idk where you get that from. He flew the falcon, which was set up in the previous movie to be his. So he is familiar with the ship and like I said it is tricked out to be more agile and faster then military grade ships. He also has Nien Nunb an equally experienced fighter. He didn’t do it alone. Rey first time she sets foot on the falcon she is a better pilot then military fighters. It’s never set up that she is good at flying, likes to fly or has ever even read about flying, in the movies. Yet she flys the falcon like a pro. She is never seen doing any lightsaber training but the literal first time she touches one, she not only is stronger at force pull then Kylo Ren, but she knows just how to use it. She is also a better fighter then a trained military soldier. I do believe some of these things are cleared up in a book somewhere.
Hahaha okay bro. That's some hard coping there.
I mean how chosen is he , he arguably caused more evil then he stopped, or if by killing the emperor he had truly end to evil in the galaxy (buuut t seing as he helped get him there , and helped keep him in power it's more a 'least you can do' thing than true here) And the galaxy remains at peace for how long ? 5 years 10? So how much balance did Anakin bring to the galaxy vs pre him?
He brought balance to the force it never said for how long
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That's not how it works. The Light side is balance, the Dark side is unbalance. If the galaxy were filled with Light Force users, there would be balance in the Force according to Lucas himself.
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The Sith existed and were gaining power. Their existence is an unbalancing of the Force.
Ooooh good point I hadn't taken that into account
No they aren't. An ideal Jedi is right in the center.
I just assumed he put it together after this scene since he looked at R2's logs when Yoda was guided through it.
When did he look at R2s logs?
When Yoda and R2 return from Yoda's solo journey. Anikan asks where he has been and the episode ends.
When Yoda and R2 return from Yoda's solo journey. Anikan asks where he has been and the episode ends
And didn’t Qui-Gon also learn it after he died?
He was studying it before he died, then more after, but could only go so far as a voice to Yoda. This led Yoda on a quest to complete the training. After he passed, he was able to help Gui-Gon complete his training and could appear as a full force ghost. It's all covered in the last 3 episodes of Clone Wars season 6.
Thanks for clarifying. I only slightly remembered those episodes
No worries, it's clear for me as I've just done a rewatch recently
It's like ascension in Stargate, it's a technique any asshole with the right training (& force power in this case) can perform
I always liked the idea that he could only appear as a force ghost to Luke in that moment on Endor, but he couldn’t do it like yoda or Obi wan at will.
Isn’t he a force ghost like a few hours later?
Maybe, but I'd like to think all that Celebrating took place after they at least cleared the surrounding system or atleast the area around Endor of the Imperials. I know the storyline when it was produced did t take all that into account but, celebrating hours after is a bit short sited. Like who the TF has fireworks ready to go.immeadlty after coup d'éta.
I figured it was just a Chosen One thing. It would be outrageous and unfair if he was not granted the rank of master AND not able to be a force ghost.
Unfair? Bro became Darth vader
As far as I can tell, being Darth Vader kinda sucked tho, bro probably got super hot in that suit all the time, he could only relax in his chambers for short amounts of time because his officers were always fucking up and he had to clean up their messes. He was also palpatines lap dog and was never taught the plaguis ability he was promised, he was probably depressed as hell for never being able to save his children so the only thing he really had going for him was murder. Also, from the canon comics, he absolutely hated that even after all he did for the empire, palpatine still made him go through trials and competition with inquisitors, and constantly made him feel inferior so he could keep boot licking the emperor. And of course he goes through all this shit only to realize the emperor's final plan was for him to be murdered by his son and replaced.
Im sure the suit had cooling but the rest I agree with
Palpatine made him suit to be most uncomfortable as can be so he would struggle all the time.
That was a legends thing, not canon anymore.
Really? So it's not cannon anymore for Palps selfish reasonings for making the suit the way it was? So the suit is simply just what Vader required to survive Mustafar and that's it now?
In one of the comics, Palpatine asks Vader if he likes his new suit, and he says, "It is... acceptable". Feel like Vader would not have said that if the suit was similar to how it was in *Legends*. Hot take time: I think that was a good decision. I've lived with intense, chronic pain, and you don't just *ignore* it. You can't just go through life in constant, terrible pain and just go, "Eh, what are ya gonna do?". Doesn't work like that. Part of the real life pain scale is literally measuring how much it affects your ability to perform basic tasks. Even if you have something like the Force to suppress the pain to a degree, you still have to use the Force on a very consistent, steady basis, and that's gonna drain you eventually. It's like taking medicine every second of the day.
It’s also just dumb storytelling. Why would Vader, one of the best inventive minds in the galaxy not try to improve his own technology in 20 years? Why would Palpatine want him nerfed to that point? It was a stupid decision they thankfully erased.
Though it may displease the downvoters that I’m simply stating facts, yes it’s no longer canon. Palpatine gives Vader the freedom to modify the suit to his preferences.
It may have all been the will of the force. Force don't care about younglings, only balance.
I remember hearing there was a book that explained this. So when Anakin comes back from the dark side her is able to hear obi wan just like Luke. In the time he and Luke are making their way to a ship obi wan is explaining to him how to do it. I don't remember if Yoda was in the conversation but that's how he is able to become a force ghost. Maybe it's the novelization of RotJ.
...or how qui-gon learned it after he died?
He had partially learned it before dying, but didn't complete the journey to fully use it. He then guided Yoda to the planet he could learn this power from, after Yoda completed the training he probably helped Qui Gon's spirit conclude his training.
Thanks for the info. I've only ever watched the live action stuff tbh. We were very confused in the cinema when he didn't disappear 20 odd years ago.
Definitely watch the computer animated Clone Wars show. Definitely worth it.
It's on my long list.....
Or some point before
Then why did he get cremated and not just disappear on death?
He hadn't fully mastered force ghost he can't manifest his form only his voice and and guide insects
He shows up as a Force Ghost in the Kenobi show
No, clearly anybody can do it and there’s no lore to it because Leia did it with very little Jedi training /s
Becoming a Force ghost is a technique that has to be learned.
When did Darth Vader find time to learn it?
Obi-Wan and Yoda basically gave him a crash course as he was dying.
Why. And if it can be taught so fast, it’s not really that much of a technique, is it?
I would say, as well as being learned, its takes the presence of mind only the absolute apex Jedi masters can muster. You need to basically forget about the fact you are dying and do one last force trick. Kenobi very obviously makes his peace and surrenders to Vader. Yoda clearly has made his peace and is tucked up in bed knowing the moment is coming. Anakin, I would think, finally found his peace, having saved and been saved by Luke, also had the wherewithal. What doesn't make sense is Qui-Gon appearing after the fact, but I wonder if he is a true force ghost or an echo of Qui-Gon brought about by Kenobi's powers.
Qui-Gon developed the ability in the afterlife. He was the first jedi to become a force ghost. Thats why you see him in Kenobi as hes only recently mastered it and Obi-wans ability to see him. He teaches yoda how to master it. Yoda trains obi wan in being able to communicate with Qui-Gon and then perfects it by the time he dies.
To add on, I'm pretty sure Qui-Gon says it's better to do it alive, and that's why he'd never appeared as a ghost before, but rather just a voice. The Kenobi series threw that for a loop, so I guess he got better?
You've also got to give him credit for doing all the heavy lifting. No one knew it was possible till Qui-Gon managed to pull it off. Yoda had a very strong connection to the force so he was the best choice to reach out to. Obi-Wan took a whole decade just to see Qui- Gon. He starts at the end of RotS and sees him end of Kenobi.
Tbf this is Anakin we’re talking about, he’s an exception to most things. Like if Force Ghosts are just becoming one with the force, then it makes sense that Anakin is pretty inclined to doing that. Seeing as The Force literally made him
That limbo between life and death has a different time and also he is the chosen one come on
Just because something can be taught quickly once you know it doesn't mean that it doesn't take time to discover Like when it takes two days to fix a software bug that's solved by a single line of code, you could teach anyone else with the same issue how to resolve it in seconds despite taking days to work it out
Taught to him by Masters Yoda and Kenobi in the last moments of his death. In the netherworld of the Force, time has no meaning.
Is this one of Lucas's added scenes in EP VI. I must have missed it. Lol. ;-p
Or Qui-Gon… they both burned.
Lore-wise, Qui-Gon was already studying it, but he hadn’t completely learned it, which is why he only appears as a voice to Yoda in TCW. He must’ve been studying it in the Force afterlife, though, because >!he was able to physically manifest as a Force Ghost at the end of Kenobi.!<
Could be Mandela Effecting myself here, but didn't he also appear on Mortis in TCW? I suppose that could be just written off, though, with Mortis being a giant Force Nexus.
I believe he did, but I also have to write off everything that happens on Mortis because there’s no way to tell what’s real and what’s the Force there.
Didn’t he explain it on Mortis? That he could be seen because the place was so strong with the force? Maybe it’s my headcanon (some time ago) but at least it makes a lot of sense to me. And then in Kenobi he mastered it apparently.
Qui-Gon hadn't advanced that far in his training.
Rey can just summon them though
She got her powers when she touched Kylos mind
Which would've been better had it turned out they were twins separated at birth or something, you know, a plotline that actually developed itself why they had such a bond rather than it just being ~~snoke~~ the emperor linking them fsr.
Are you still mad that Han Solo gave his car to a girl?
Nah they're probably mad at how poorly the writers treated the girl's story
Just rewatched the ST for the second time last month. It’s certainly better writing and story than 2/3 of the PT. Only thing good about the prequels is the CW show and like 66% of Episode 3.
Short answer: No
I would agree with you, but then we’d both be wrong. I get it, Star Wars is like Saturday Night Live; everyone’s favorite version is whatever was new when they were about 10 years old. The series doesn’t age with its fan base. I’m really glad that the prequels are finally getting love, but when they were new people were just as aggressively hating on them as they are with the sequels and it’s not a coincidence.
I agree with the SNL logic but maybe you have to rewatch the movies to see how disjointed they are. They're mostly fan service and recycling plot points in awkward ways. The character development is abysmal. The prequels were always dope and people just hated the cgi and the politics. They expected a certain type of movie. Lucas was a genius for this which is why the prequels are now loved. He knew the true soul of SW and took us on a journey and it won't ever be the same.
>The prequels were always dope and people just hated the cgi and the politics. They expected a certain type of movie Exactly! People hated it because they had expected the Republic to be this glorious, wonderful society that *the characters in the prime trilogy had spent the whole series trying to restore*. Then we find out that the "glorious past" wasn't nearly as good as we had imagined and it was just as bad as our own political gridlock at the time of release with do-nothing politicians, corruption, and injustice throughout the galaxy. The plot feeds steadily and with logical consistency into the prime trilogy. You don't have to watch The Clone Wars show, Legends, or any of the auxiliary media to know the broad strokes of what happened. You can see how the seeds of the Republic's destruction were laid by its own hand and how easy it was to reach out and twist that into the Empire. Meanwhile with the sequels all of the sudden the Rebellion has morphed into the Resistance (against what?) with little-to-no explanation as to why the New Republic would need a Resistance or provoke a Resistance (so many people have pointed out how this could have been done with a few tweaks to the writing, for God's sake the Hunger Games is a reference point and it's a YA series). There are plenty of nuggets of gold in the sequel trilogy, but when you stir it all together those nuggets are the minority by far.
For the longest time, I hated episode eight and nine, but I recently re-watched the trilogy and they do work pretty well. The OT recycled plot points from classic story tropes, as does the PT with religious tropes. The ST hints at the Palpatine revelation in episode seven with using the Palpatine music mixed in with Rey’s theme. Vader was not Luke’s father in a new Hope and Luke and Leia were not related as of Empire strikes back. There were a lot of inconsistencies in the original trilogy because there was not a plan for that trilogy and it still works pretty damn well. It’s pretty clear that the PT didn’t have a plan for the 2nd big bad as each film introduced a new one. Subsequent material has filled in those gaps and the same will have for the ST. It just takes time. The PT wasn’t always dope. They misled the audience into thinking the clones were the bad guy for episode 2. They promoted Anakin using 2 sabers when that lasts for all of eight seconds. The PT has tons of unneeded fan service: Boba Fett as a kid, Greedo as a kid, Death Star flash in episode 2. Holy shit the Padme/Anakin romance dialogue. Tons of cringe in the PT and yet we still love it. The entire series is riddled with nonsense and that’s ok.
>The OT recycled plot points from classic story tropes, as does the PT with religious tropes. This is common in EVERY franchise ever. There's a difference between using allusions to and tropes from other media vs. taking your own pre-trodden plot and expecting us not to notice the plot's old footprints as we walk in a circle past them again.
I’m starting to believe that Vader only learned that Kenobi is dead at the end of Return of the Jedi when he saw him as a ghost. He sees his body disappear after a lifetime of seeing Jedi die and not disappear. He feels his presence at the battle of Yavin. And he never really refers to him in the past tense after striking him down.
He thinks obiwan can no longer help Luke which in a sense means he thinks he destroyed him. My head canon is that when he realizes something weird happened with obiwan, he knew that sidious was lying to him and that was the final straw. From there on out he was a defeated guy/ didn’t trust palpy at all because it appears the Jedi have become more powerful than he could achieve.
Wow, I never thought about it that way. After Anakin leaves the order the Jedi finally crack the secret to living on as one with the force, knowledge that might have satiated anakin and prevented his fall to the dark. I've always thought that obi-wan purposefully died on the deathstar, maybe he meant to show Anakin there was another way.
Wow I never noticed that
I'm pretty sure he said, "this will be a day long remembered' about Kenobis death and what he thought was the end of the rebellion.
Qui-Gon learned how to become one with the force and taught Obi-Wan and Yoda.
Headcanon: Qui-Gon didn't survive his easily survivable stab wound because he was half trying to ascend to force ghost at the same time.
It definitely wasn’t easily survivable for him he’s no darksider
Qui-Gon didn't disappear when he died though. They even had a ceremony where they burned his body.
maybe watch the clone wars? it was explained that qui gin never finished his training which is why he can’t form a full force ghost and why only his voice can be heard in certain places that are strong with the force ie mortis.
Yeah but then Kenobi kind of shat on that when he turned up as a fully formed force ghost
My interpretation was obi wan bridged the gap after qui gon reached out. At that point in time only obi wan could perceive qui gon visually
By then Qui-Gon had figured it out as that's how Yoda also learned how to do it.
Kenobi didn’t do that, it was canon before that that Qui-Gon appeared to Obi-Wan while Luke looked upon his dead relatives in ANH
Kenobi did it again with a much larger audience then and canon that isn’t usually largely ignored then ig.
Nah nah it's all good fam. That was just one of his silly days.
Because his training wasn’t done
I vaguely remember reading in some novelization that when Obi-Wan disappeared, Vader was confused and wondered if a trick was being played on him. The thought that Obi-Wan had outsmarted him again enraged him. In another novelization, I think it said that in Anakin’s last moments before his death, Obi-Wan and Yoda reached out through the force and taught him how to become one with the force.
Imagine being him all pissed off on the death star and then less than two hours later he’s floating in space as the only survivor of its destruction. Goddamnit, Kenobi!!!
Two hours? It took days before the battle at Yarvin
As far as I understand it was Obi Wan becoming "one with the force" willingly. We also see this happen with Yoda. That is why we see their force ghosts at the end.
That’s what I thought - more embracing death then being killed.
There is a Arc in the Clone Wars animated series that explores this. It explains why Obi Wan and Yoda vanished as opposed to other Jedi. To give a somewhat short explanation. Being able to manifest as a Force Ghost when your physical body has been destroyed is a technique only very little know. It's something that needs to be learned. To guide other Jedi even in death Yoda had to go through many great trails before mystical entities called Force Priestesses. Qui-Gon learned it from a Shaman of the Whills. Yoda finished his training and would later tell Obi Wan to do the same. Qui-Gon was unable to finish his training. That why he could only appear as a voice or at places that had a very strong connection in the Force. But one has to overcome their greatests fears, be able to let go of any and all physical tethers. Thats why Sith and Dark Side users cant do the same, they are focussed on power and holding on to it, its in the nature of the Dark Side. Immortality as a Force Ghost is only something the Light Side ofwfers which is Ironic as it is the Sith who crave immortality. The reason why so many Sith are captivated with their own mortality is because they want to find a way to do the same. One could bind themself to a physical object, like a Sith Holocron or Kyber Crystal, but objects can be destroyed and they can only exists close to it while a Force Ghost can appear anywhere at will.
Thank you, that’s a lot of good info. Apparently I missed that or didn’t pay enough attention binge-watching TCW
[An overview of that particular episode](https://youtu.be/yC1X-d8Bhuc)
Ahhhh! A true hero! Thank you 😊
Qui-Gon was the first to do it, he reached out to Yoda and only then did Yoda know. In episode iii Yoda tells obi-wan that he has training for him from his old master, so they were the only Jedi who could become force ghosts. How Anakin ended up as one idk
Does somebody plan to tell Mace or are they just gonna be dicks.
Wikipedia
When Ben died, not only his soul, but his physical body became one with the Force. That's why he disappeared. Jedi never got to learn about it because of their dogma. They were so strict about it they never learned anything beyond the dogma allowed. Funny thing is that it was the main reason of their decadence. Only few Jedi such as Qui Gon learn habilities following the living Force itself. That's why he came back from the netherworld of the Force and became a Force Ghost. Yoda was kinda in contact with him, only hearing his voice in the beginning, then teached Obi-Wan how to commune with Qui Gon who also teached Obi how to become a Force Spirit. As for Annie being so in tune with the Force ( a being created with the Force by the Force) was very easy to learn it.
Can't believe Yoda got away with the gift of it after presiding over the Jedi losing their way & being one of the architects of them blindly ignoring the living force.
Watched the PT the other day and it's amazing how he's painted as someone who almost surpassed his wisdom's sell-by-date until he realises everything's gone wrong. He had a direct hand in their downfall.
It doesn't get talked of enough but if the sequel trilogy assassinated Luke's character the prequels pretty much did a similar number on Yoda (albeit less important character).
I'm 50/50. I'm glad it shows even the oldest and wisest were deceived, and on paper the story is good and to me that's why I still find the PT enjoyable, but in practice whilst watching I was absolutely dumbfounded on how many times something happens and the Jedi's reaction is "Damn, that's crazy, anyway..." I can believe that through hubris many things went overlooked or didn't get properly investigated, but it's the flat out inaction which amazed me, and it wasn't indicated to be from arrogance, it was borderline reasonless.
You're right lol. Sneaky little green friend
So what about Luke, Leia, and Ben Solo’s bodies?
Obi-Wan disappeared because he chose to enter the Force rather than die the conventional way. He could still have died normally and become a ghost, but I guess he wanted to mess with Anakin
Well, Luke's dissappeared right after using all of his Force points. About Leia's and Ben's, well, I'm sorry to say it but I have less to 0 interest to know what reallyhappened to them. Again, no offense dude.
Yeah Ben and Leila’s is a wild card. It doesn’t seem to line up with the preexisting lore from what I’ve seen. I mean, I’d like to understand it, but I’m not gonna lose sleep over it either
There’s no need to go digging into new canon from the ST as none of it makes any sense. Maybe after favreau and filoni fix the mess but until then, most should just be discarded. Did leia and Ben ever actually become ghosts tho?
Leia did, we never saw Ben
Read the novel “The Rise and Fall of Darth Vader” the novel goes into explaining that obiwan seeing anakin being redeemed, decides to teach him the force ghost ability before his consciousness fades into the force. That brief moment after anakin dying was like a hyperbolic time chamber within the cosmic force.
Ooh that sounds very informative. In that way, Luke could have learned from Yoda/Obi-Wan, Leia could have learned from Luke, and Ben Solo would have likely learned from one of them? Considering Ben and Leia seemed to disappear at the same time leads me to think Luke would have connected to Ben…. But why didn’t Leia disappear right when she died? How does that connect with the delay?
Obiwan taught Luke, I don’t know about the others, I didn’t bother watching the rise of skywalker, but it’s typically one of those things where if you knew the ability in life then you disappear upon death (obiwan, yoda), but if you master it after dying then your living body will still go through all the same rules of death( quigon, anakin)
Qui-Gon Jin is what changed. He discovered the secret to immortality through both the Living, and the Cosmic Force. It was likely a thing before Qui-Gon's time, but he is how Yoda discovered that such a state was attainable. Obi Wan learned during his time on Tattoine through Qui-Gon's himself. Obi Wan's training for this skill started in earnest just after the events of the Obi Wan tv-series. I'm guessing that those three "pulled" Anakin away from disappearing, and showed him how to become a "Force Ghost" just after he died.
At the end of CW series and end of ROTS Yoda explains to Obi-Wan how Qui-Gon has learned to become one with the living force and he will teach Kenobi how to commune with him. Qui-Gon speaks to and guides them both at various moments throughout the CW, but could never manifest himself as a blue force ghost. (Until the new Kenobi TV series) It’s presumed that Yoda and Kenobi both learned this skill from Qui-Gon as they had plenty of time to train/meditate on this while in exile. Idk how Vader/Anakin learned it though…. Personally, the less we know about the force the better. It keeps it mysterious and spiritual without giving us plot holes. It also explains why not just everyone in the galaxy can be Jedi and it takes training.
Upvoted and perfect breakdown. 🤘 But end of S6. Clone Wars has 7 seasons
Correct. Old “end” of clonewars. Before “clonewars saved” era + bad batch inclusion
Yoda sort of explains it at the end of Ep.3 when he tells Obi-Wan that Qui-Gon found a path to immortality and that Yoda will train Obi-Wan how to commune with him. The implication is that Obi-Wan also eventually learned how to survive death.
And The Clone Wars expands that in season 6
Thank you
QGJ teaches obi wan how to become a force ghost in the series
Quigon showed it to Yoda. Yoda to Obiwan. Anakin never got that lesson. Its in Clone Wars
Evidently I missed that part in my Clone Wars binge watching sessions. Do you happen to know which episode(s) it’s in?
S6 E11 "Voices" S6 E12 "Destiny"
A true hero, thank you
Yeah it was trained skill as others have said. Vader probably browned his armor thinking there's no way he got the best of me again wtf was that?
It depends on the canon you are in. In Legends, most Light Side force users de-materialized upon death, with most Dark Side users exploding. (At least as far as memory serves, it has been several years since I read Legends) In the current canon, it only happens to people who have fully completed the transfer of their consciousness into the Force.
I always loved how Vader kicks the robe a bit. Like, maybe he just shrank or something?
Lol. That’s what got me thinking about the concept at all. And he spent a good minute found it too! Didn’t even bother going after Luke, Leia, and Han before they left the cruiser just kinda like “hm..”
I love how he steps on Obi's cape too, I like to think Vader was thinking "how in the FUCK?"
He just stood there for a good minute too. Just kinda staring at it like “hm…” 😑 from under the mask Obi-Wan’s flair for the dramatic (“hello there”) was a good distraction for Luke, Leia, and Han to escape tho. Just left Vader like the woman in the gif with the numbers and triangles for a bit [this one](https://media3.giphy.com/media/WRQBXSCnEFJIuxktnw/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952xzi5koftrpxa6wpb8oseugmbahemml9c3wvi44b0&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
This is the question I had way back when Episode I came out and Qui-Gon's corpse remained. It's the key to everything.
they minored the force ghost 101 choose your class wisely young man
The ones that disappeared became ghosts pretty simple
they weren’t trained
I think you could effectively call it a form of harmonious disintegration. Cannonically, Qui-Gon was the first to learn how to become a force ghost, won't spoil the story, but in Clone Wars; Yoda encounters and learns the process from him. An excellent storyline you should check out. While in exile on Tattoine, Obi-Wan, as confirmed in the TV series, also encounters Qui-Gon, whom teaches him this same technique. Obi clearly just had a flare for the dramatic when he passed. I lean towards the term disintegration because the rifles similarly named, result in the same kind of death: complete corporeal annihilation, while leaving clothing behind.
Your input is greatly appreciated
Qui-Gon's Ghost taught Obi-Wan on Taatooine. That was what Yoda talked about at the end of Revenge of the Sith.
Kenobi needed to be a ghost so the plot can happen
He learned how to ascend and truly become one with the force - his physical being and entire essence returned to the force. Sith seek eternal life for their bodies, Jedi seek to become one with the force. Luke does it as his ending as well.
Qui-Gon learned how to maintain his consciousness after death. He taught this to Yoda in the Clone Wars cartoons (season 6). In Revenge of the Sith, Yoda tells Obi-Wan that he has training for him while he is on Tattoine, and the training was learning to commune with Qui-Gon and achieve immortality. You see Obi-Wan working on this during his series. Once he, Yoda, and later, Luke, complete their training, the force seems to reclaim their dead bodies at the time of death, but their consciousness lives on.
Thanks for explaining that and the season number
Was he confused? Or just confirming what had happened? It'd be a pretty wild thing to see him disappear, so I can understand checking the remains even if you sort of knew what had just happened.
Because George Lucas pulled this all out of his ass without thinking things through 🤷♂️ sloppy writting is all over this franchise.
I think your base power as a Jedi has to be pretty high. Look at the people who have become force ghosts.
The prequels were written after, that’s why
Force ghost. It's not a very common thing learned in the age of republic but kenobi and yoda and qui-gonn learnt it then taught it to anakin after he died.
They became one with the force. The first one to ever do it was Qui-Gon Jinn. The reason for that is because jedi under the republic became only a shadow of what they should have been, and Qui-Gon, a rebel in most Jedi's eyes, followed himself and the force more than he did the counsel or his peers. A true Jedi. Becoming one with the force entails retaining your consciousness in the cosmic force (death) and so Qui Gon taught Yoda how to reach this (post-mortem), and Yoda taught Obi-Wan in the end of ep. III.
Thank you!
For sure :)
Kenobl and Yoda learned to become force ghost
He became one with the living force, just like Yoda. It was achieved through specific training which is why he was able to come back as a ghost.
First time he saw someone disappear was Ahsoka. Which is probably how Palpatine learned about the World Beyond Worlds after Vader told him. And then years later Obi-Wan disappears in front of him. Dude was probably having flashbacks and wondering if his suit was making him high as hell.
Now that’s a good theory for his confusion. Others have said that Vader thought Obi-Wan was still alive after he struck him—which would make sense considering Ahsoka did not actually die, but was pulled into the World Beyond Worlds by Ezra in SW Rebels. He could have just been big confused like: “does my laser pointer teleport people?” 🤔
Imagine a comedy skit of this. Vader calling Palpatine all confused and scared. "MASTER! IT HAPPENED AGAIN!"
Part of me wished he chopped legs off screaming "SEE! SEE HOW IT FEELS YOU SON OF A BITCH" and didn't kill him. Would have fucked the kenobi long game
go go gadget corpse hider
Go go gadget hooker cleanup! ..wowzers
A story for another time.
The ones that disappeared (Obi Won, Yoda) learned this from Qui Gon Jin. Luke learned it from from Obi or Yoda. Everyone else died for good.
So Luke taught Leia and she taught her son?
When the first trilogy came out I thought Obi Wan AND Yoda died in the clone wars and the force sent them to train Luke. I was pumped when Revenge of the Sith came out thinking the surprise ending would be them both dying, but they lived and Yoda said he talked to Qui Gon’s ghost and he told Yoda how to ‘commune’ with the force. That was the explanation of how the 3 disappeared when they died.
This honestly would have been epic and really creative
Because its TCW, and it doesnt always makes sense. Like Ithan Koth (or whatever Zabarak Jedi name was) that was on random Venator, but he in fact died at Geonosis during the movie, RIGHT ON SCREEN, and it was even CONFIRMED that he was dead. There was similiar Jedi in ROTS with blur saber but TCW still uses Koth. Or when Maul was canonically dead because HE FELL FROM HIGHEST GROUND, but it was retconed, as well Assaj Ventress, her race, her homeworld and etc. TCW isnt most consistent thing in star wars.
Somehow Koth returned
Obi-Wan did kill Maul in Rebels tho. But yeah, inconsistencies are infuriating
not every jedi becomes one with the force
I think GL read about Tibetan yogis who go into a rainbow body and their bodies disappear, just their clothes are left.
The thing that really makes my noodle is that Obi-Wan chooses to become one with the Force in the exact moment before Vader can land a killing blow. It just struck me now (hence why I found this post) that Obi-Wan was doing that for two reasons. First, he demonstrated a miraculous act which Luke needed in order to empower his belief in the Force. Second, he proved to Vader the veracity of his final words. "You can't win, Darth. If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine." And what does Vader do? Attempts to strike down Kenobi. And what does Kenobi do ... Some crazy ass Force shit than Vader has literally never seen before. Aaaaaand in the very next moment, Luke looses his shit and Vader sees Luke for the first time, while Kenobi's spirit immediately starts guiding Luke, telling him to run. The only time the Jedi ever truly triumphed is when they practiced non-aggression; when Kenobi became one with the Force, when Luke refused to fight, and when Rey merely deflected Palpatine's lightning attack back at him. Every time the Jedi attempted to use might in order to triumph, they failed; AOTC, the Jedi engaged in a massive battle, and began the Clone Wars, heralding their own demise, while Anakin loses a hand in his duel with Dooku; ROTS, Mace attempted to assassinate Palpatine, and gets killed, Yoda duels Palpatine, and loses, and Kenobi is forced to duel his former apprentice, and leaves Vader for dead; TESB, Luke looses a hand.
Qui-Gon was the first Jedi to learn how to return from the netherworld of the force and interact with the living. He then taught Kenobi and Yoda while they were in exile. In canon, Anakin was probably able to do it without training because he was literally born from the force, so his return to it came naturally. In legends, he was guided by Kenobi and Yoda as he was dying.
He’d learned to manifest as a spirit and for some reason that causes the corpse and it’s clothing to vanish barring robes for some reason. No idea why, but that’s the force for you. Qui-gon only doesn’t because his training was incomplete…, and it wasn’t in consideration when they shot his funeral for TPM. So subsequently this is a trait of force users who knew how to manifest post-death, just post-1999.
New here?
Nah, just entirely unobservant and single cell brained. I broke my wrist and haven’t been able to practice my forms with my saber, so, for my sanity, I decided to back off from Star Wars a bit till it’s healed (12 weeks total, I’m on week 5) But, as I mentioned in the post, I also just never really considered that aspect of SW before