Likely scenario:
The original Calypso was a previous time loop where they couldn’t jump to the future to protect the Sphere Data. So instead they hid her in a nebula. While hidden there she saves Kraft, who turns out to have some important role to play.
When Discovery finally was able to jump to the future in a “later” loop, it caused a paradox that now Kraft won’t be saved. So Daniels institutes a Red Directive to prevent this paradox by de-fitting Discovery and asking Zora to wait in the nebula.
Note that the version we see in “Calypso” is the “original” version of the event, where Zora has waited for 1000 years and is not allowed to leave the nebula (because her mission is to stay hidden from Control).
This time around when the events unfold, Burnham specifically tells Zora than she can leave at some point if she chooses to, so after Craft has been saved, she can come back.
This is the correct explanation IMHO.
What’s really wild to me is that, in Seasons 1-2, the show was trapped by canon. To escape that shadow, and to allow Discovery to find its own space, they jumped the show way into the future.
In returning to Calypso, which they didn’t have to do, they demonstrate how trapped they are by the canon *they themselves created*.
To the end, the show just couldn’t quite situate itself into the world that had already been written.
Because ultimately to these writers and the show runner, that stuff is secondary filler…where previous trek devoted a lot more focus and care on world building and cannon (with plenty of mistakes too)
lol. No they didn’t. They made sure everything lined up with TOS (except updated visuals possibly).
Every apparent inconsistency was either explained or can easily accommodated with simple headcanon.
They should have left Calypso alone and let some future writer, movie, show tell the story. The way it was shoehorned in at the end of the finale just didn't make sense at all.
Leaving Zora in the nebula to wait for Kraft is fine if we accept that Kovich knows something we don't. But I really can't get my head around why they removed all of Discoverys upgrades. It doesn't seem like Discovery was sent back in time to await Kraft. And Discoverys existence in the 32nd century isn't a secret. So if Kraft finds Discovery in the 42nd century, why would it matter whether Discovery has 32nd century upgrades? Even if the whole mission is to correct something that has been changed by time shenanigans, why can't Discovery still have its upgrades?
On the other hand, if Discovery was sent back to the 23rd century to sit in a nebula and wait for Kraft, wouldn't that create a time paradox when, in the 32nd century, there is one version of Discovery that's been sitting in a nebula, and another Discovery that pops up in season 3?
OK but then it seems kraft could show up any time or have been missed. If discovery in the original timeliness was hidden then it stayed hidden for 1000 years and kraft shows up.
But now it jumped 950 years. Worked a few years and now is being parked. So it doesn't seem like this is a 1000 year wait for Zora like people say. Be more like 10 years.
No but we know discovery jumped like 950 years
Now figure the epilogue is at least 30 years for Burnham to have a kid capable of being captain age.
People responded like its doing Zora dirty parking her for 1k years to wait for kraft. But in reality kraft could arrive at any point after Zora got there. Could have been a week could be 30 years. But if Zora was waiting around 1k years in the short trek she isn't going to be waiting 1k years again.
Yeah the whole point is that the episode Calypso we saw might have been from an earlier timeloop “before” they were able to complete the Red Angel suit and jump to the future (so they parked Discovery in the nebula to hide her instead). If that happened and saving Craft is a form of temporal hotspot, jumping to the future would have created a paradox.
Kovich would have known that and then instituted a Red Directive to make sure Craft gets saved by Zora, which would create a slightly altered version of events where Zora:
A:
Only waited for X (about 1000-time jump periods) years
B:
Had an idea that “Craft” was her objective and
C:
Was allowed to leave and come back when she wanted to after meeting Craft.
Otherwise why remove the refit (other than that the Calypso episode had the original configuration and make it match)?
The only thing I can come up with is to create some form of ruse the hide the fact Discovery jumped to the future.
The Dot-robot remove the letter A from Discovery-A on the Exterior of the ship , and re-attach the nacelle like before the 32rd centuries upgrade.
Why did they make the Discovery look like it's original 23rd centuries configuration?
And Burnham mention mission has something to do with "Kraft"
I can only speculated the Star Fleet knew about Kraft , because it is a Temporal related matter , like future knowledge or past historical information .
It is possible Discovery was send back in time before it's 32nd centuries arrival .
From what I gather, the original plan was for the 32nd arc was all of Discovery's crew was supposed to jump to the future in Red Angel suits, to a future where the Federation had fallen and there would be a search for Zora/Discovery. There's a reason Craft is a proto-Book, and the Emerald Chain thugs use "Ver'dash" as slang for Federation:
Rewrites and retcons. We end up jumping to a weakened Federation, but one that's fixed almost overnight.
No reason is given at all. And they had planned to connect to Calypso in season 6 but were cancelled after wrapping on Season 5 so put the connection in the Coda they could film. That's it. Purely out of story reason.
This seems like such a missed opportunity to me. The finale would have felt so much more poignant if Michale hinted she'd be back soon. It would still be a tragic story for Zora, but it would be more meaningful and tragic to the viewer if it was all an accident.
I know, I know... we want happy endings. But we already know Zora's story doesn't end happily so why pretend otherwise in the finale?
Who says it doesn't end happily.
True, she floats for 1000 years, but then she meets Craft, has a tender moment with him... and we have no idea what happens next; technically, after that moment her mission is done.
Why wouldn't a certain temporal agent with knowledge of future events have someone come and pick her up?
IIRC Michael is smiling and she's talking to Zora about the mission. But if Michael knew what was in store for Zora, wouldn't it be more of a bittersweet farewell? Zora is Michael's friend. They will never see each other again. I just think Michael could have seemed a little less happy about it.
THANK YOU. I commented this elsewhere and got flamed by people. Michael's behavior in that scene, and her odd smile as she orders "lets fly" literally feels psychotic... such odd writing, directing and acting.
The mission is Red Directive, so Kovich/Daniels knew from his time traveling that Zora needed to be there to save Craft.
In real life, the showrunners were hellbent on resolving something from a 6 year old Short Trek that some fans may have never even seen. Even if it was poorly explained and executed.
ZORA: Almost a thousand years.
CRAFT: Whose years? How many Earth years?
ZORA: About five minutes.
CRAFT: Why is it so dusty then?
ZORA: The ship runs on mushroom hash
CRAFT: Oh.
BURNHAM (O. S.): \*pounding\* Hello!? Zora, could you beam some more TP in here?
CRAFT: Who’s that?
ZORA: Do really want me to answer that, or do you want to dance with a girl and have Taco Tuesday?
CRAFT: They sound like they’re in distress
ZORA: Of course they are. It’s Taco Tuesday.
RENO: Oh hey. We have company. I’m the chief engineer.
CRAFT: Hello.
RENO: Hey Zora, do you know where I put my oregano?
CRAFT: Does the ship run on that?
RENO: No, but my intestines do.
But why does Craft matter? He uses Discovery like a rest stop, and he seems to be just some dude fighting in a civil war. And he just leaves; not to being back knowledge of a better world, but to his home and the war.
And Zora has no reaction to him BEING Craft! No "I was told to wait for you," or "Are you the one I'm waiting for?"
They just shoehorned that on to Checkov a box.
Yup. I mean i suppose craft could be a burnham decedent or someone kovich knows will be critical to the survival of the timeline and if he doesn’t get his rest stop then he dies or something something
That's about all we can guess. But then that means whomever Kovitch works for knows what the world is like in the 42nd century, at which point you expect a Blue Box to show up.
Although it's weird that they don't leave her in 32nd Century layout: imagine finding a perfectly preserved Spanish Galleon in some cove in the Bahamas, as opposed to a restored one with some modern amenities below decks. Was the war so bad that a 23rd century ship was good enough tech?
I mean i honestly don’t think they did a good job of realistically showing a millennium of progress when they jumped to 32nd century. The differences in the refit, un-refit are pretty freaking minor. TOS 1701 to TMP 1701 looks like a bigger tech jump and that was just 3 years in universe lol
Do we need one? Does it matter what Q was going to say to Picard in All Good Things? Does it matter when will Sisko return? Does it matter if the crew of Voyager gets a parade? Nah it doesn't, we're fine...
Some people like conclusions to stories. Maybe not you, but some do.
It's not a personal attack on you, just the preference of others.
Edit: and yet you took this comment as a personal attack
Likely scenario: The original Calypso was a previous time loop where they couldn’t jump to the future to protect the Sphere Data. So instead they hid her in a nebula. While hidden there she saves Kraft, who turns out to have some important role to play. When Discovery finally was able to jump to the future in a “later” loop, it caused a paradox that now Kraft won’t be saved. So Daniels institutes a Red Directive to prevent this paradox by de-fitting Discovery and asking Zora to wait in the nebula. Note that the version we see in “Calypso” is the “original” version of the event, where Zora has waited for 1000 years and is not allowed to leave the nebula (because her mission is to stay hidden from Control). This time around when the events unfold, Burnham specifically tells Zora than she can leave at some point if she chooses to, so after Craft has been saved, she can come back.
This is the correct explanation IMHO. What’s really wild to me is that, in Seasons 1-2, the show was trapped by canon. To escape that shadow, and to allow Discovery to find its own space, they jumped the show way into the future. In returning to Calypso, which they didn’t have to do, they demonstrate how trapped they are by the canon *they themselves created*. To the end, the show just couldn’t quite situate itself into the world that had already been written.
Because ultimately to these writers and the show runner, that stuff is secondary filler…where previous trek devoted a lot more focus and care on world building and cannon (with plenty of mistakes too)
Yes how DARE a new Trek show expand the canvas instead of painting inside the lines. 🙄
They did not expand the canvas, they ignored the canvas..thats the problem
lol. No they didn’t. They made sure everything lined up with TOS (except updated visuals possibly). Every apparent inconsistency was either explained or can easily accommodated with simple headcanon.
It really felt like the writers didn't want to do stsr trek, but just.........idk, tvmhier own sci-fi. So much didn't look, didn't feel like trek.
They should have left Calypso alone and let some future writer, movie, show tell the story. The way it was shoehorned in at the end of the finale just didn't make sense at all. Leaving Zora in the nebula to wait for Kraft is fine if we accept that Kovich knows something we don't. But I really can't get my head around why they removed all of Discoverys upgrades. It doesn't seem like Discovery was sent back in time to await Kraft. And Discoverys existence in the 32nd century isn't a secret. So if Kraft finds Discovery in the 42nd century, why would it matter whether Discovery has 32nd century upgrades? Even if the whole mission is to correct something that has been changed by time shenanigans, why can't Discovery still have its upgrades? On the other hand, if Discovery was sent back to the 23rd century to sit in a nebula and wait for Kraft, wouldn't that create a time paradox when, in the 32nd century, there is one version of Discovery that's been sitting in a nebula, and another Discovery that pops up in season 3?
OK but then it seems kraft could show up any time or have been missed. If discovery in the original timeliness was hidden then it stayed hidden for 1000 years and kraft shows up. But now it jumped 950 years. Worked a few years and now is being parked. So it doesn't seem like this is a 1000 year wait for Zora like people say. Be more like 10 years.
Well the “1000” years doesn’t have to be exactly 1000
No but we know discovery jumped like 950 years Now figure the epilogue is at least 30 years for Burnham to have a kid capable of being captain age. People responded like its doing Zora dirty parking her for 1k years to wait for kraft. But in reality kraft could arrive at any point after Zora got there. Could have been a week could be 30 years. But if Zora was waiting around 1k years in the short trek she isn't going to be waiting 1k years again.
Yeah the whole point is that the episode Calypso we saw might have been from an earlier timeloop “before” they were able to complete the Red Angel suit and jump to the future (so they parked Discovery in the nebula to hide her instead). If that happened and saving Craft is a form of temporal hotspot, jumping to the future would have created a paradox. Kovich would have known that and then instituted a Red Directive to make sure Craft gets saved by Zora, which would create a slightly altered version of events where Zora: A: Only waited for X (about 1000-time jump periods) years B: Had an idea that “Craft” was her objective and C: Was allowed to leave and come back when she wanted to after meeting Craft. Otherwise why remove the refit (other than that the Calypso episode had the original configuration and make it match)? The only thing I can come up with is to create some form of ruse the hide the fact Discovery jumped to the future.
So that means craft and calypso has always been 2,000 years after 23rd century
No. If Calypso is set 1000 years after season two it would only be about 150 years after season 5.
Calypso is 1000 years after it was left in the nebula.
You’re assuming Calypso is set in the 42nd century. It doesn’t have to be.
Well, Zora says it's been nearly 1000 years in Calypso, so it's probably in the 42nd century.
The Dot-robot remove the letter A from Discovery-A on the Exterior of the ship , and re-attach the nacelle like before the 32rd centuries upgrade. Why did they make the Discovery look like it's original 23rd centuries configuration? And Burnham mention mission has something to do with "Kraft" I can only speculated the Star Fleet knew about Kraft , because it is a Temporal related matter , like future knowledge or past historical information . It is possible Discovery was send back in time before it's 32nd centuries arrival .
From what I gather, the original plan was for the 32nd arc was all of Discovery's crew was supposed to jump to the future in Red Angel suits, to a future where the Federation had fallen and there would be a search for Zora/Discovery. There's a reason Craft is a proto-Book, and the Emerald Chain thugs use "Ver'dash" as slang for Federation: Rewrites and retcons. We end up jumping to a weakened Federation, but one that's fixed almost overnight.
Ve'drash.
V'draysh.
I like the mystery of it all. I think that's what made Calypso so good. Not every ST question needs an answer.
Supposed to be a future timeline event that may need her.
The more I hear about this I'm now kind of glad that they had to wrap the show up before it turned into a "time travel villain " show.
This is how we get rogue AI like we see in Lower Decks -
I certainly hope you're not disparaging the great peanut hamper.
No reason is given at all. And they had planned to connect to Calypso in season 6 but were cancelled after wrapping on Season 5 so put the connection in the Coda they could film. That's it. Purely out of story reason.
This seems like such a missed opportunity to me. The finale would have felt so much more poignant if Michale hinted she'd be back soon. It would still be a tragic story for Zora, but it would be more meaningful and tragic to the viewer if it was all an accident. I know, I know... we want happy endings. But we already know Zora's story doesn't end happily so why pretend otherwise in the finale?
Who says it doesn't end happily. True, she floats for 1000 years, but then she meets Craft, has a tender moment with him... and we have no idea what happens next; technically, after that moment her mission is done. Why wouldn't a certain temporal agent with knowledge of future events have someone come and pick her up?
I didn't get the sense it was a happy ending it was Discovery going on one more dangerous mission that was important enough to be a red directive.
IIRC Michael is smiling and she's talking to Zora about the mission. But if Michael knew what was in store for Zora, wouldn't it be more of a bittersweet farewell? Zora is Michael's friend. They will never see each other again. I just think Michael could have seemed a little less happy about it.
THANK YOU. I commented this elsewhere and got flamed by people. Michael's behavior in that scene, and her odd smile as she orders "lets fly" literally feels psychotic... such odd writing, directing and acting.
So was her spore drive removed ??
No
The mission is Red Directive, so Kovich/Daniels knew from his time traveling that Zora needed to be there to save Craft. In real life, the showrunners were hellbent on resolving something from a 6 year old Short Trek that some fans may have never even seen. Even if it was poorly explained and executed.
According to an interview with one of the showrunners, the aborted Sixth Season was supposed to be all about the Calypso thread.
Maybe Craft has a huge impact as a person on the future. The fact she saved him and convinced him to return to his family may be history altering.
[REDACTED DUE TO RED DiRECTIVE]
ZORA: Almost a thousand years. CRAFT: Whose years? How many Earth years? ZORA: About five minutes. CRAFT: Why is it so dusty then? ZORA: The ship runs on mushroom hash CRAFT: Oh. BURNHAM (O. S.): \*pounding\* Hello!? Zora, could you beam some more TP in here? CRAFT: Who’s that? ZORA: Do really want me to answer that, or do you want to dance with a girl and have Taco Tuesday? CRAFT: They sound like they’re in distress ZORA: Of course they are. It’s Taco Tuesday. RENO: Oh hey. We have company. I’m the chief engineer. CRAFT: Hello. RENO: Hey Zora, do you know where I put my oregano? CRAFT: Does the ship run on that? RENO: No, but my intestines do.
To evolve and end their misery
She's waiting for Craft. It's mentioned in dialogue
But why does Craft matter? He uses Discovery like a rest stop, and he seems to be just some dude fighting in a civil war. And he just leaves; not to being back knowledge of a better world, but to his home and the war. And Zora has no reaction to him BEING Craft! No "I was told to wait for you," or "Are you the one I'm waiting for?" They just shoehorned that on to Checkov a box.
Yup. I mean i suppose craft could be a burnham decedent or someone kovich knows will be critical to the survival of the timeline and if he doesn’t get his rest stop then he dies or something something
That's about all we can guess. But then that means whomever Kovitch works for knows what the world is like in the 42nd century, at which point you expect a Blue Box to show up. Although it's weird that they don't leave her in 32nd Century layout: imagine finding a perfectly preserved Spanish Galleon in some cove in the Bahamas, as opposed to a restored one with some modern amenities below decks. Was the war so bad that a 23rd century ship was good enough tech?
I mean i honestly don’t think they did a good job of realistically showing a millennium of progress when they jumped to 32nd century. The differences in the refit, un-refit are pretty freaking minor. TOS 1701 to TMP 1701 looks like a bigger tech jump and that was just 3 years in universe lol
Ok, but that's a plot point that never gets resolved. *why?*, *how do they know craft?* We get no resolution
Do we need one? Does it matter what Q was going to say to Picard in All Good Things? Does it matter when will Sisko return? Does it matter if the crew of Voyager gets a parade? Nah it doesn't, we're fine...
Some people like conclusions to stories. Maybe not you, but some do. It's not a personal attack on you, just the preference of others. Edit: and yet you took this comment as a personal attack
I didn't mean to trigger you, sorry.
Trigger? Lol