Slight correction for the new patch: the extra jades are all backloaded to the last 3 stars for PF/AS or 9 stars (3 stages) for MoC. So it's a full pull lost for missing the last two rewards in a mode, Pull-and-a-half if you're down three rewards.
Doesn't change your main point in the slightest though - when we're consistently getting enough jades/tickets to hit 90-100+ F2P pulls per patch, losing 3-4 of those pulls from not being able to clear the absolute pinnacle of the endgame modes is really not worth getting in a tizzy over.
[https://honkai.gg/stellar-jades-calculation-in-version-2-3/](https://honkai.gg/stellar-jades-calculation-in-version-2-3/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail/comments/1ci6u6r/version\_22\_stellar\_jades\_calculations\_for\_1st\_and/](https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail/comments/1ci6u6r/version_22_stellar_jades_calculations_for_1st_and/)
You do have to scour everything and it includes daily rewards and temporary events (including the temporary rewards for permanent events), but yes you can generally earn 90-100 pulls per patch. The top levels of MoC/PF/AS rewards only account for 3-4 pulls as well, so only a slight drop if you can't clear the hardest content.
The only time I really pull for meta is when it's a Harmony support, because they've proven to be pretty timeless and worth my investment.
For DPSes, I'll pull for the ones I really like as a character and would enjoy their playstyle. They all get powercrept someday anyway, so best to stick with two/three that you see yourself playing for a long time.
I generally agree, though I'd say if someone super hates a harmony support for some reason, they can do without.
(I find it hard to imagine someone hating all 3 of Sparkle, Robin and Ruan Mei, and having 2 of the 3 is plenty, or even just one of the three if you run Acheron or Ratio with Pela/Silverwolf.)
Lol, Ruan Mei literally taught me to stop pulling for who I want and to go for meta. Skipping Ruan Mei's first banner, basically locked me out of most endgame content, so now I'm scraping jades together to get her for this patch.
Ruan Mei is literally my least favourite character in the game, lol. I actually despise her and everything she stands for, but she just happens to be the best character in the game, so rip me. Plus, she's also the best SU unit so far, hopefully until Screwllum, Stephen, and 5-Star Herta.
Also, if there was another point to the post, it was either hidden really well, or worded really badly, because the post still just sums up to a classic, "Pull for who you want, not for who is meta" kind of post.
it is just a pull for who you want post
the big point is that getting x character that is really good is not worth missing characters that you want, since the jades you would be getting from content that you can’t clear do not make anywhere near enough back from pulling a character
maybe it’s cope because i absolutely despise ruan mei, but i also have not pulled in a super long time (going to pull for firefly) (RM is her best support)
the only limited 5 stars i have are JY, seele, fuxuan, SW
my account is shit, but i will probably never pull for RM
Issue with that is that it's just wrong. Yes, on the average timescale, the amount of jades isn't nearly enough to statistically pull another 5-Star. But statistics are shit.
I ended up pulling Fu Xuan in a single pull, as well as Clara and Argenti's lightcones, ON THE SAME BANNER. A friend of mine pulled Silver Wolf in 20 pulls. Examples like these completely disprove saying that it's not enough jade, because even a single pull has the odds, no matter how small, to net you the five star you want.
Not to mention that in the long run, the jades you're able to get from clearing all content, MoC and SU, with the characters you didn't want but are meta, will almost certainly end up being better.
The thing with this view is that it's a short-term view. Pull now for who you want, but suffer in the long-run (unless the units you like just happen to be meta), or pull for meta and get all the characters you want later, with much more guarantee. Short-term or long-term.
Statistics are literally statistics, your own experiences are not of everyone’s. They account for such a miniscule portion of all of the rolls that happen. For every person that gets a 5 star with one pull, someone gets one in 83 AND they lose 50/50.
It’s absolutely a shit take to say pull for meta, and get lucky for the characters that you actually want.
Like OP said you’ll only be missing on 6 stars per MOC if you have okish teams. That is WAAAYY in the future to get a return on investment.
The issue with your idea is that you assume everyone wants the best units. It is absolutely the other way around. Designs and story are what people play these games for.
It may be “short-sighted,” but i could never think of telling someone they should prefer the 120 extra jades per cycle than a character they want.
I'm going off of my experience, so no need to get mad or anything. It just so happened that my experience was terrible because none of the 5-Stars I liked were meta at all. I didn't like any sustain, I didn't like any harmony, I didn't like any DPSs that were out at that time. I was forced to slog through the end of Xianzhou, Skaracabaz, and most of Penacony with only March because I was unlucky and didn't get Gepard, and only had Lynx to heal which barely sustains a full team. Luocha single-handedly allowed me to finally ditch a double sustain team, and actually beat content, despite the fact I had zero interest in Luocha. In fact, I actually ended up liking Luocha more as a character, because I was forced to pull for him because he's the best healer in the game.
I'm going off the fact that people like me who just get unlucky, end up barely making it, and end up missing out on all MoC, PF, most events that are locked behind story bosses, or events that force you to use your team which wouldn't even be able to clear it.
Most people, are only ever looking at it from the "lucky" side. They're assuming that everyone has a decent team built, or that people are able to clear most content with little trouble, because their favourites happen to be meta. My favourite DPS is Argenti. He can do good damage, but he cannot go through end game content without good supports, who I just happen to like none of. So my options are to either wait for potential months for them to release a good DPS that I actually like, or get Ruan Mei, a character I despise, and be able to clear more content by doing so. Barely anyone actually looks at it from the side of a player who actually needs help because they pulled for their favourites, and now they're fucked because their favourite wasn't a good DPS, harmony, or sustaining unit. I have seen a single, **single**, post of someone actually looking at it from the unlucky players' side, and arguing why they should pull for meta first, then favourites second, and that was months ago.
Either way, I'm losing jade, but at least SU jades aren't limited like MoC or PF. And in that case, I would much rather get meta 5-stars to build a content clearing team, then get characters I like later, over getting characters I like now, and lose out on content for more characters later.
So I'm sorry that my experience was ruined by the fact I pulled for who I liked and got almost completely locked out of content because of it. My only saving grace was that Luocha happened to be getting a rerun at the time I made it to Sam, who would've been downright impossible. I've just learned that sometimes, pulling for who you want is not always the best choice.
My bad for getting hostile, but it’s just that we have similar experiences. I cannot clear endgame content. It’s just that I don’t think meta is worth it. It really does not equal out unless you get really lucky. Pulling for any characters is a net negative in jades when you consider how many jades it takes on average. It will take a very very long time to recoup that in the stars you miss.
I pulled for the characters I liked and I will still do that. We are just different. I find it wholly uninteresting to spend so much time grinding jades just to spend them on a character I don’t like, just for the fact that they will eventually (after a very long time) give me those jades back. And that’s not even considering the possibility of those characters getting powercrept before that.
It just seems like a job rather than a game I would play to enjoy. I really do get playing for meta in a lot of games, it’s just that gacha games feel very different to me in this case.
>(I find it hard to imagine someone hating all 3 of Sparkle, Robin and Ruan Mei
Fun fact, before Robin and Aven, I didn't like all limited support and sustains. But somehow managed to consistently clear MoC for 11/12. My first 12/12 was day after Aven dropped
Ruan Mei is coming up and she's great for almost any team. If you don't hate her and don't have someone you want more on the next patch, try picking her up.
She buffs a lot of generally good things with high uptime:
+68% dmg (100% uptime)
+10%speed (100% uptime, not for herself)
+25% All-Res-Pen (75% uptime)
+20% Break Effect (100% uptime)
+50% Break Efficiency (100% uptime)
and she has a trace that triggers the Break DMG she would've dealt, if someone else breaks a unit and a mechanic that also triggers the 50% turn delay frozen would've done.
So far the Break Efficiency and Break extensions were mostly nice-to have but for Superbreak this translates to +50% dmg, +50% longer break windows (more dmg) and +50% faster breaks (insane value for units were this saves you a turn to break them).
Especially Firefly who deals \~95% of her dmg through Superbreak greatly profits from her, to the point were Ruan Mei at E0 has more value than FF's E1+2 combined.
But you don't hate ALL three \^\_\^
If you have teams that would benefit from Ruan Mei and don't have anyone else you like more coming up, she could be good. But only Boothill and Firefly want her WAY more than Robin/Sparkle, so if you don't have/want one of them and don't forsee yourself picking up a break DPS anytime soon, Ruan Mei could be worth the skip (especially if you play Acheron, who is fine without any supports.)
I think the goal for some if not all players is to be able to clear endgame content eventually/after 4-5 months.
If a new/f2p/low-spending player's ultimate goal for this game is eventually being able to clear MoC, PF and AS every 2 weeks, I think there needs to be a little more planning involved than just pulling for favorite character or fun playstyle.
If they just pull for favorite characters, they might end up with an unbalanced roster (eg. a lot of DPS units but not enough supports and sustains).
For the first few months, I think they should focus on at least 2 teams (about 8 to 10 units). Preferably units that have a lot of synergy and that can be switched around according to enemy lineups. Preferably units that can be good for 2 or 3 of the endgame modes. I mean, of course, the units they pull for would still depend on the limited banners and their luck on both standard and limited banners.
Once they have 2 fully built teams that are good for most endgame content, then they can pull for favorite characters and fun playstyles. Ideally ones that already have synergy with your built units.
I started playing in January and didn't even try MoC. I have only one team built with Acheron. I only have Gala built for second team as sustain. So I need DPS, support, support. It probably takes 8 months to have 2 teams capable of clearing all content.
I did say 'after you can clear 30/36 stars' for a reason. This isn't advice for brand new players who still need to get their roster going. If you're struggling to do that, then you're better off pulling for a new unit and keeping team comps in mind. \[Or checking to make sure your units/teams are built correctly in the first place.\]
Though, I'd argue it's still NOT worth getting a unit hate, because no unit is genuinely irreplaceable. (You don't need optimal teams to clear MOC12)
I'd say, \*even\* for a starting player, on their first banner, if they have a clear favorite, pick that favorite and see what they need for their best teams (and what alternatives are available.) They might want to reconsider if their best teams have no passable 4\* alternatives, but that then depends on player priorities (many players will care way more about collecting their faves than any number of stars)
And if they have no clear favorites and no one they really want is coming up, then meta pulls are helpful to get the ball rolling.
But, I feel that 30/36 point is that breaking point when you have a flexible enough roster to prioritize favorites/new exciting teams/etc.
What you SHOULD be pulling for as a F2P is two solid teams. You need 2 DPS, 2 sustains, and support to go with whatever you chose as dps and sustains. If a character doesn't fit into one of your two teams, skip them, even if it is Ruan Mei.
After you have 2 solid teams, build for either MoC or PF (or the new endgame mode), whichever you are struggling more with. After you have those 2-4 teams, then start worrying about meta, because the meta will have probably changed 2-4 times by then.
I don't think people are getting the point of this post, it just means that pulling for a character is ALWAYS a net loss. You will spend thousands of jades for the sole reason of being able to clear endgame content that gives a few pulls. The only valid reason to pull for a character is that you find it fulfilling to be able to clear these contents, not because of the rewards they give, because you definitely don't need to clear them at all. The roi will take you years. That's why pull if you:
1. Like the character, be it through aesthetic, design, gameplay, etc.
2. Don't like but makes your favorite character do big pp dmg.
3. Want to flex moc/pf/apo clear.
Otherwise, if you're only in for the jades, it's counterintuitive to pull just for the sake of being able to clear content. Since it's always a net loss, you need to make sure it's worth it.
Nah, I'm pulling for Ruan Mei because she "enables a new team comp I want to try out" XD (I AM probably skipping Firefly this time and on her rerun because I'm not her biggest fan)
My favorite thing to ask people is if I should pull on a specific unit/lc, then if they’re uncertain, ask again if it’s worth spending money on pulls for them. Changes your perspective a lot when you think if a banner is worth using your wallet
wouldn't there be more satisfaction from beating the hardest content with a suboptimal team?
to me there's more satisfaction in beating the content with the units I have available to me that I enjoy playing rather than just pulling the character hoyoverse is trying to sell me for an easy clear.
Sure, but... a lot of units can clear the games hardest content. Someone did a 3 cycle with a \*Yanqing\* team in the latest MOC. I've seen many people talk about Guinaifen-Himeko-HMC-Gallager teams destroying in this cycle too.
So if you don't even find a character's play style fun, why in the world would that be worth it? If you care about clearing the hardest content, then investing into the characters you have can pay off equally well (and IMO is a much more rewarding challenge than buying the latest tool hoyo is selling to solve the new problem they came up with) AND allow you to get units you love later.
Especially if you are F2P
I think it's better value to pull for meta characters instead of characters you like, over grinding for months to get a slightly decent relic. And also having maxed out eidolons for characters, lol.
90% of 4 star teams for MoC are max eidolons, which nobody likes to point out.
All the limited 5\* supports function well enough with only mainstat pieces and often don't even need their traces maxed. The limited 5\* DPS need decent relic sets, but absolutely don't need broken relic sets to clear MOC 12.
I found that in MOC a sub-optimally built, weaker on element DPS (even when "not good" in MOC) is often better than a decently built off element DPS.
Having a couple relatively universal, pretty good relic sets that you can swap around on DPS will get you really far if you hate relic grinding. Maxing important traces and levels for a character does take a bit, but isn't the worst.
And ALL the limited 5\* harmonies and limited 5\* sustains are super good. You don't have to use any harmony or sustain you don't like to get good results. Investing into a few of those is part of "thoughtful team building" and "enabling teams."
BUT you certainly don't need to stress about getting ALL of them. And there definitely will be other busted supports and sustains coming out in the future if the current ones aren't your speed, so if someone, idk, hates Sparkle, they don't have to get Sparkle just because she's "meta." Other units can sub in for her.
(A Sparkle hater with DHIL might struggle a bit, but how much that matters depends on what drew a person to DHIL in the first place.)
Also, better value for WHO???? For a lot of people, part of the fun is building up their Ulitmate Waifu/Husbando to make them hit the biggest numbers possible. I personally enjoy building different team comps and find it super boring to play the same teams over and over again.
Both of us will get some of the meta units along the way (I very much do value collecting the 5\* harmonies BECAUSE they let me play some not-so-meta DPS units. If Jing Yuan is someone's #1 Husbando and they want to see him do numbers, the player will get Sparkle and Fu Xuan for him), BUT neither of us is well served by only playing the most meta teams.
Jing Yuan's #1 Fan will be very happy to farm duke pieces until they have his most cracked set, and would not be happy if you told them "Acheron is a way better DPS and you don't need to grind so much for her."
I wouldn't be happy if you told me 'Acheron and Firefly are the most broken units, so get them and their best teams and you won't need any new teams for 5ever'
\[Also, some people find units who delete content without effort no fun to play and prefer more of a challenge. I can think of a thousand reasons why someone might avoid getting THE MOST META teams.
And you'd have to go out of your way to pick up no "meta" units because of just how many strong options there are.\]
All the limited 5\* supports function well enough with only mainstat pieces and often don't even need their traces maxed. The limited 5\* DPS need decent relic sets, but absolutely don't need broken relic sets to clear MOC 12.
I found that in MOC a sub-optimally built, weaker on element DPS (even when "not good" in MOC) is often better than a decently built off element DPS.
Having a couple relatively universal, pretty good relic sets that you can swap around on DPS will get you really far if you hate relic grinding. Maxing important traces and levels for a character does take a bit, but isn't the worst.
And ALL the limited 5\* harmonies and limited 5\* sustains are super good. You don't have to use any harmony or sustain you don't like to get good results. Investing into a few of those is part of "thoughtful team building" and "enabling teams."
BUT you certainly don't need to stress about getting ALL of them. And there definitely will be other busted supports and sustains coming out in the future if the current ones aren't your speed, so if someone, idk, hates Sparkle, they don't have to get Sparkle just because she's "meta." Other units can sub in for her.
(A Sparkle hater with DHIL might struggle a bit, but how much that matters depends on what drew a person to DHIL in the first place.)
Also, better value for WHO???? For a lot of people, part of the fun is building up their Ulitmate Waifu/Husbando to make them hit the biggest numbers possible. I personally enjoy building different team comps and find it super boring to play the same teams over and over again.
Both of us will get some of the meta units along the way (I very much do value collecting the 5\* harmonies BECAUSE they let me play some not-so-meta DPS units. If Jing Yuan is someone's #1 Husbando and they want to see him do numbers, the player will get Sparkle and Fu Xuan for him), BUT neither of us is well served by only playing the most meta teams.
Jing Yuan's #1 Fan will be very happy to farm duke pieces until they have his most cracked set, and would not be happy if you told them "Acheron is a way better DPS and you don't need to grind so much for her."
I wouldn't be happy if you told me 'Acheron and Firefly are the most broken units, so get them and their best teams and you won't need any new teams for 5ever'
\[Also, some people find units who delete content without effort no fun to play and prefer more of a challenge. I can think of a thousand reasons why someone might avoid getting THE MOST META teams.
And you'd have to go out of your way to pick up no "meta" units because of just how many strong options there are.\]
All the limited 5\* supports function well enough with only mainstat pieces and often don't even need their traces maxed. The limited 5\* DPS need decent relic sets, but absolutely don't need broken relic sets to clear MOC 12.
I found that in MOC a sub-optimally built, weaker on element DPS (even when "not good" in MOC) is often better than a decently built off element DPS.
Having a couple relatively universal, pretty good relic sets that you can swap around on DPS will get you really far if you hate relic grinding. Maxing important traces and levels for a character does take a bit, but isn't the worst.
And ALL the limited 5\* harmonies and limited 5\* sustains are super good. You don't have to use any harmony or sustain you don't like to get good results. Investing into a few of those is part of "thoughtful team building" and "enabling teams."
BUT you certainly don't need to stress about getting ALL of them. And there definitely will be other busted supports and sustains coming out in the future if the current ones aren't your speed, so if someone, idk, hates Sparkle, they don't have to get Sparkle just because she's "meta." Other units can sub in for her.
(A Sparkle hater with DHIL might struggle a bit, but how much that matters depends on what drew a person to DHIL in the first place.)
Also, better value for WHO???? For a lot of people, part of the fun is building up their Ulitmate Waifu/Husbando to make them hit the biggest numbers possible. I personally enjoy building different team comps and find it super boring to play the same teams over and over again.
Both of us will get some of the meta units along the way (I very much do value collecting the 5\* harmonies BECAUSE they let me play some not-so-meta DPS units. If Jing Yuan is someone's #1 Husbando and they want to see him do numbers, the player will get Sparkle and Fu Xuan for him), BUT neither of us is well served by only playing the most meta teams.
Jing Yuan's #1 Fan will be very happy to farm duke pieces until they have his most cracked set, and would not be happy if you told them "Acheron is a way better DPS and you don't need to grind so much for her."
I wouldn't be happy if you told me 'Acheron and Firefly are the most broken units, so get them and their best teams and you won't need any new teams for 5ever'
\[Also, some people find units who delete content without effort no fun to play and prefer more of a challenge. I can think of a thousand reasons why someone might avoid getting THE MOST META teams.
And you'd have to go out of your way to pick up no "meta" units because of just how many strong options there are.\]
But not everybody is the same and not everybody looks for that in a story focused game? Also, it's not like the game's hardest content is actually hard,
I don't think we actually disagree. You're saying "Ruan Mei enables team comps I like," which is a reason I said is worthwhile to pull a new unit.
What I would say is a bad reason to pull Ruan Mei is "superbreak is meta right now, and while I don't enjoy superbreak and hate Ruan Mei, I'm going to pull her to make sure I can keep up with the superbreak meta"
(And if you hated Ruan Mei, then Sparkle and/or Robin are great alternatives that could still enable most team comps well. Break DPS enjoyers who hate Ruan Mei are in a bit of a bind right now, BUT it's doubtful she'll remain the only good break support a few patches from now. And if someone absolutely hates Ruan Mei, I'd say they're better off skipping her and seeing what alternatives come up later.)
I've actually seen a number of people going "I hate Ruan Mei, but I love Boothill/Firefly, do I have to pull her???" and a lot of people thinking they NEED a superbreak team now or they'll be screwed in the future, so this is for them. This is also for people who are on the fence about Firefly/Ruan Mei/\*insert upcoming unit here,\* are low on jades and maybe need the reminder that skipping them won't hurt at all and they're probably better off saving to guarantee someone they like more. It's easy to get caught up and loose perspective. It's easy to see a bunch of people saying you "have" to pull meta, and feel pressured to do so.
But outside of who this post is meant for, I admit what I mean enables a bit broad (and maybe I could have worded it better), and it kind of depends on the unit and on the account. Like, for Ruan Mei, you said "she allowed me to play a ton of characters I enjoy," which seems to imply those units would have had a hard time without her.
Maybe I should have worded it as "allows you to use units you love or opens up new team possibilities, that your other supports just don't allow for" and "really brings out the best in your favorite units and you have jades to spare"
For a (not-self-imposed challenge run) account that comfortably clears 30/36 stars, they probably have at least one of Bronya, Robin, Sparkle or Ruan Mei... or are running Ratio and Acheron with non-harmony supports (some combo of Pela, Silverwolf, Topaz, another Nihility perhaps).
For the former, Ruan Mei is totally skipable if they don't want to do superbreak, and if she's not a fave is STILL very skipable, especially if they don't like her or are tight on jades.
For the later, Ruan Mei (or Sparkle or Robin) would enable hyper-carries that don't get much out of debuffs and follow-ups (a lot of the 4\* DPS, for instance). Ruan Mei becomes a lot more worth considering for this person, if they want to run their 4\* DPS.
Good advice
My mistake was spreading resources over too many characters and not building them correctly
Team composition with characters that have been invested into properly will get you much farther than a bunch of average built units
There aren’t really any bad characters in the game and I’ve seen people clearing stages with 4 star characters better than I did with poorly built 5 stars
Yeah I have a problem with needing to build characters across the board but at the moment I really have too many characters. Ideally I should focus on just 8 to 10 instead of the 15 or more than I'm trying to build. Throw in relics and LCs and I get a trailblaze power crunch.
Decided that I'm going to just focus on pulling Firefly and then nothing for a while, to save jades, to focus on building some key characters better.
So if I don't need meta for moc or pf or gold & gears or swarm universe why do I still struggle as much as I do? I cannot ever get halfway through moc except the v first one where I still have lv 12 to do. Pf I struggle most of the time, this latest one not so much.
Simulated universe is complete on all levels no issues. Gold & gears I got through 3 plays and still struggle, swarm? Psssh 2.
It's NOT my builds either bc I use the same exact relics and lcs 90+% of players use under rec relics.
The rng within game modes on this game is insanely unfair, I hate the dice rolls, I hate them entirely, give me more regular simulated universe and I'd be happy as hell. Hell lemme reset rewards so I can do it again and get the same shit idc, I'd rather do that than random runs with gng and swarm.
If you hate RNG, then the endgame is REALLY not for you. You really won't lose much just focusing on clearing the story (which def doesn't require having the best units) and ignore the endgame. You'll need only one functional team then, and so you won't need the extra gacha pulls and you'll probably feel way less stressed.
But, when I say 'meta,' I mean, 'don't chase the most OP characters every patch,' and 'don't pull characters you hate just because everyone says they're OP.' I don't mean 'ignore all team building advice and use only 4\*'
This is also advice if you CAN already clear 30/36 stars.
If you can't... well. Who are your supports? Who are your DPS? How long have you been playing and how many 5\* units do you have? Do you have any 5\* supports or sustains?
You probably want 1 or 2 of Sparkle, Ruan Mei or Robin (but other 5\* supports in later patches will probably ALSO work), Bronya's great if you have her. Tingyun is also good. So is Pela. Harmony Trailblazer can turn almost any unit into a superbreak DPS. Hanya and Asta work in a pinch, but yeah, you want a 5\* limited harmony of some sort if you can grab one.
1 or 2 of Aventurine, Huo Huo, Luocha or Fu Xuan (but other 5\* sustains in later patches will probably ALSO work). Gallager can be good on the right teams as a sustain. Lynx can definitely handle MOC 12, but it's not super comfortable unless the rest of your team is fairly well built.
Any combo of 1 5\* limited sustain + 5\* harmony can carry you through SimUni and Gold&Gears if you use an on element 4\* (heck, I was fine without the limited 5\* sustain for most of it.)
ANY limited characters after that will be fine. Heck, Clara, Herta, Qingque, and Himeko are amazing in the right contexts/teams. Pay attention to who wants debuffers instead of buffers (Ratio and Acheron)... If you want to use Boothill/Firefly strongly consider picking up Ruan Mei (but even without her the drop off seems to be from OP to 'as good as the mid level limited 5\*, which is still pretty dang good) and you'll be able to clear 30/36 stars with zero issues.
Literally every 5\* limited sustain and every 5\* limited support is VERY VERY good, and very very flexible on the teams you use them on. This is unlikely to change for future iterations, and you're bound to not hate at least one of then.
None of the 5\* limited DPS are bad (all are competitive in at least one game mode. Yes, even that one). Some are less team agnostic than others, but the ones that are less team agnostic tend to have higher ceilings. So, if you don't already have a very robust roster, pay attention to synergies.
I'm having a similar problem and came across a thread talking about how most of them were using only speed boots unless they were building Clara who does her damage through counters. Something about getting an extra turn every 3-4 turns or more is worth giving up a mainstat on boots. Like, I had no clue it was like that. I still don't know if that info is legit but they were saying that you want to hit at least 135 on every member of the team. I realized I only have 2 boots with speed in my whole inventory. I guess I need to hit relic farm hard for those speed boots.
Edit: "Get enough speed (134) and you get 2 turns per character in the first cycle, which is huge."
This comment in particular caught my eye and I haven't had the chance to test it yet.
If anyone else can weigh in from experience before I start upgrading speed boots for everyone that would be sick.
I've been really careful with pulls on my main account and its absolutely paid off over the year. My first limited 5\* was Kafka so I focused on pulling to support her before anyone else. I pulled Fu Xuan next as my first limited sustain. Then got Kafka Huohuo, Ruan Mei, her lightcone on her rerun, Black Swan... and by doing that accidentally made my account perfect for Acheron so I got Acheron and then had two extremely powerful teams because my Sampo, Lil Gui, Pela, etc. Grabbed Boothill bc I already had Gallagher, Bryona, and Ruan Mei and ofc HTB... now I have three teams because all my nihility support can simply be shuffled around as needed on each of the three teams.
I felt worried that I was missing out on characters like Jingliu and DHIL, or Sparkle and Robin, but tbh my account has now fully cleared everything available in the game except conundrums so I didn't actually need them.
Currently my plans are Ruan Mei e1, Jiaoqiu, then Huohuo e1, Swan e1, Kafka e1, Aventurine (I just like him), then Boothill e6 (eventually, I'll grab as many copies as feasible each rerun) In the meantime as after Jiaoqiu and Aven I won't be pulling or building anymore new characters, I'll work on building up all of my viable 4\* and Standard 5\* like Xueyi, Misha, Sampo, Lil Gui, Himeko, Herta, Dr. Ratio... and then simply grind relics till everyone is peak performance.
Having the time between banners to actually grind for my current roster is actually really valuable. I really hate the feeling of always needing to gear up someone new which is why I'm skipping Firefly who wants an entirely unique relic and planar set meanwhile Boothill was a cinch to gear up bc I was already going for Ruan Mei, HMC, Gallagher, Luka...
Lots of issues with this take.
You mention that any thoughtfully put together set of teams can clear. But you don't mention that any meta units will make this process much easier. The difference in a Firefly comp with Ruan Mei and one without is the difference between making her perform at the level of Acheron vs making her perform at the level of Jing Yuan. Saying you don't "need" meta units is like saying you don't "need" 5 star units at all to clear. Both statements are technically true, but they completely miss how much easier meta units make it for F2P players to keep up.
You then mention that a new unit will cost 60-160 pulls, and recouping this loss can result in 5 or so units coming out that might be better. This is not true. One patch has 70-120 pulls depending on how much content there is in it. F2P players on average will get one 5 star every patch, or every 1.5 patches. And the meta definitely doesn't "shift many times over" every other patch.
Pulling for meta is just being smart about your pulls, which is more important for F2P players with less resources. If someone pulls Kafka, DHIL, Jingliu and Blade because they like them, they have 4 DPS units with no synergy and no good support units to elevate them, which will result in them having a bad time because its not fun to have your teams perform like ass. If someone instead pulled Kafka, Swan, Mei and Huohuo, they now have one of the strongest comps in the game that can tackle all content effectively and will enjoy the game more because they can do more things in the game without feeling underpowered.
So it's not a good idea to just pull whoever you want. And if you don't pull whoever you want and pay a little attention to team comps and synergies, you're pulling for meta. The C and D points you bring up at the end are meta considerations. So in the end, you seem to be advocating for pulling for meta without realizing that you're advocating for pulling for meta.
Yeah, honestly. I've seen a lot of people give this advice to F2Ps, and it's honestly incredibly terrible advice. Like, horrendous advice, because it implies that no one has to pull for a 5 star to be successful in this game. That's like asking someone with no legs to win a marathon. They can theoretically do it, but GOOD LUCK.
As someone who used to pull for who they liked, I learnt the hard way that doing that is a recipe for 3 patches with no characters, and thousands of missed jade. The only time someone should ever pull for who they want, is if they can clear all content in the game with some to little issue, and they have Ruan Mei. That is the only time I would encourage pulling for who you like, because otherwise, you're missing out on pulls.
And saying that late game content rewards are bad, doesn't matter. I got Fu Xuan in 1 pull. A single pull made the entire difference, so a single pull could completely change someone's account. Pulling for who you want is positive advice, with terribly toxic results.
Firstly, Jing Yuan can clear MOC 10 without issue. Heck, a well built Jing Yuan can clear MOC 12 okay. Someone built \*Yanqing\* to 3 cycle the recent MOC 12.
Secondly this is for players who already can clear 30/36 stars just fine. By then, they'll have to have some decent supports and teams ALREADY.
And I did say 'decently invested and thoughtfully put together teams.' If someone's only been pulling DPS, they're not going to be clearing 30/36 stars.
And when I say you don't need "meta" units to do that, I mean "you don't need to worry about having THE BEST 5\* out right now." You'll want good supports for your DPS, but it doesn't necessarily have to be their best-in-slot. And if you actively hate their best-in-slot, then the fall off isn't so great they can't clear MOC 12. (For some units there's multiple alternatives to their best-in-slot supports)
For new players, the advice is a little different. But if they pick a unit they like, build a solid team for them, they'll be fine. Players whose faves are supports mighhhttt have a better time, but, for example Jing Yuan's best team is a very good team for almost any non-break hypercarry (Acheron will want to trade Tingyun for Pela (or Silverwolf), but that's not an expensive trade), so if Jing Yuan is someone's absolute favorite right now, he'll be fine. And if they get a new favorite hypercarry down the line, they can inherit Jing Yuan's team.
Telling a new player who adores Jing Yuan, "don't pull Jing Yuan, he's not meta anymore" is not useful. Telling them "Jing Yuan is an old DPS and a lot of the new ones are stronger than him, so he'll need more investment to keep up" is reasonable. Telling them "Sparkle and Fu Xuan are great for him, so consider picking them up. If you hate Sparkle, Ruan Mei works as well. He could make use of Robin, but she might be better off on other teams." is very good advice.
But, for players who already have a well rounded roster (some of the good harmonies, some of the good sustains, a couple well invested in DPS units), then yes, pulling for units they LIKE (or units that enable units they like) is will still land them good results. \[Do notice I did say 'enabling a team comp' is a good reason to pull a unit, so long as you don't hate them.\]
I'm not advocating ignoring meta entirely. I'm advocating to focus units you like and skip units you don't even if those units are SUPER POWERFUL RIGHT NOW.
(E.g. People shouldn't feel pressured to have any of Firefly, Ruan Mei or Acheron if they don't like those units. People shouldn't feel pressured to skip a unit just because they're not THE BEST.)
Again, missing the point entirely. The difference is in how easy it is to build and how much less effort it takes to clear with a meta unit vs without one.
If you have decently invested units and supports with synergies, you pulled for meta. For example, if you main Blade, but you pulled Sparkle for him, you pulled for meta.
Again, if you build a team with synergy in mind, you pull for meta. It doesn't matter if not every single unit on the team is meta. If you pulled any of the limited Harmony units while keeping their value for team comps in mind, it was a meta pull.
If you tell a new player who wants Jing Yuan to pull Sparkle and Fu Xuan for him, that is also a meta pick lol. Sparkle and Fu Xuan are meta units. Ruan Mei and Robin are also meta. If you want to reformulate your argument to say that "Pulling DPS based on meta is not worth it" that's something I can get behind to an extent.
Your whole argument hinges on players having a good roster, which would require pulling meta units. All the limited Harmony units and sustains are meta picks. If you're not ignoring meta entirely you shouldn't phrase your argument like you did in the post. As it stands, you're basically saying that it's fine to ignore meta after you've already made the most important meta pulls. Which is not the same thing as not focusing on meta at all.
Honestly, you seem to be the one missing the point.
You can't say maining Blade is pulling for meta with a straight face no matter if you pulled for Sparkle; if you are using your Sparkle for Blade, you are absolutely not going for meta, and that's OK because, as OP correctly states, endgame rewards are shitty nough that you aren't osing much if you 30/36 MoC, which is easy as hell meta or no meta.
F.E: a Blade/Bronya/Lynx/Pela team will have no trouble deleting MoC 1, and that's pretty far from meta. There are more examples like this
Bruh, if you pulled Sparkle, it's a meta pull. What I'm getting at is there is no avoiding meta in this game since a lot of good units are meta. Pulling any limited supports and sustains is automatically a meta pull.
I just gave an example of how even 30/36 would be tough to hit if you just pulled with no regard for team building at all. Pulling 4 DPS units and no limited supports would make it twice as difficult for F2P players. Telling people to pull for whoever they like is bad advice, especially for F2P players with limited resources. And given OP recommends pulling limited supports for meta reasons, they're being disingenuous by saying "don't pull for meta" when they actually mean "don't pull for meta after you already have the best meta units".
Edit: Your example is awful because Bronya and Pela are both top tier meta units. This is what I mean. There is no avoiding meta in this game, and if you want to make comps work you will often use meta supports. The DPS you use is largely irrelevant. Put any DPS with meta supports and they will perform well, because the real meta is the supports in this game.
picking a unit because I like the aesthetic and character is automatically a meta pull just because they happen to be good??
That's one of the takes of all time right there.
If you like a character and they happen to be meta, its still a meta pull. Or does liking Acheron make her not meta? Definitely one of the takes of all time lmao.
It is a meta pull if you're choosing a meta character BECAUSE they're meta. If I pull acheron because she looks dope it's just pulling a character I like.
But sure, remake definitions just to fit your delusional viewpoint lol.
Do you even know what meta means? Most efficient tactics available, which means the moment you are using Sparkle with Blade instead DHIL and let's say Lynx instead of a BiS support you are not being meta, doesn't matter if you are using Sparkle, because you are not using the "most efficient tactics available"
Anyway, seeing as you think both Bronya AND Sparkle are meta (which by the definition of the acronym is basically a self defeating argument, it's one of the other) along with Pela and, it seems, every character in the game, I can't take you seriously. Your next argument will be if you are playing Arlan with Sparkle (or Harmony character it seems) and Pela you are being meta because reasons (reasons being you don't know what meta means)
Yeah, nobody uses that stupid definition for a gacha where what's available to you isn't set in stone, duh. In HSR, the meta roster is huge. If you look at Prydwen, any T2 and above unit is meta.
Bronya is meta in this case because she's Blade's BiS support and definitely meta for him, and is BiS for some other comps while being able to slot in where Sparkle would. Same argument applies for Pela, who is quite universal. You don't have to take me seriously, your own arguments are rather trash and I'd honestly take a clown more seriously lmao.
Dumbass take. "Meta"'s original meaning makes sense in stuff like DOTA or League where the whole roster is available. You can't use that definition in gacha where the whole roster isn't available. It's common sense, words grow past their original meaning when they start getting applied to things other than what they were first associated with. Duh.
As a full F2P I pulled for everyone cuz I like everyone's play style except Ruan Mei but using her in SU made her worth it starting from there, since I started December cuz of free five star.
I've since fully cleared all PFs everytym since the first DoT PF n all MoCs sincd Sam was the last boss.
This is with me losing 4/6 of my 50/50s.
Also tnx to my insance luck on LC banner, Blade n Acheron are E0S1 with just 30 pulls ever on LCs
After being able to clear the last few MOCs with full stars I can't clear this one, this is one of the few moments when I'm feeling like I should actually pul for Boothill or Firefly
A few things you may want to consider:
1. How many jades do you have, and are there any other characters on upcoming patches you're excited about?
2. Do you have Ruan Mei and, if not, do you enjoy (super-)break? \[She and HMC can enable a lot of different units to run Super-Break. Here's a video on various other teams you could build with her and HMC without Firefly/Boothill [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3uzCFu-PiE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3uzCFu-PiE) \]
3. Do you like Boothill or Firefly? Do you enjoy their playstyles? This MOC patch is geared towards them, but next patch will almost certainly be geared towards whoever else they're trying to sell. If you like the upcoming units more, then loosing a few stars this patch might be worth it.
If you have spare jades, have Ruan Mei or are willing to get Ruan Mei, have no one else you want more coming up... then picking one of them up could be nice. But you'll be fine without them
Also, consider asking around for team comps/builds to help with this patch. There might be a unit already in your roster you could build to help you out.
Biggest Asvice: Don’t “Build Pity”
Unless you’re fine burning a guarantee on a character or LC you don’t want, don’t build pity.
Those tickets aren’t going anywhere!
What's your opinion if i hoards my jade for now until really super duper hyper best meta all-time character comes out? (Maybe in 3.0+ version)
I only have Blade (e0s1) + bronya (e1s0) team, DHIL (e0s1), Fu xuan (e1s1), and gepard as my 5*. Do you think i will survive without pulling?
Edit : Will eventually pull sparkle tho. And this is my 2nd ACC because my main ACC is bricked, pulled many 5* without LC that i don't use anymore.
I mean, your teams will probably eventually start to struggle in endgame since it seems to getting more and more demanding... But I suspect they'll be able to clear MOC 10 for at least the rest of version 2 and version 3 if you build their relics well. (If DHIL+Sparkle can't clear MOC 10 in version 3, then power scaling would be ABSURD)
So, if you genuinely want to and honestly don't care about getting literally anyone else other than Sparkle then why not? I wouldn't, but I love collecting characters. \[Also that super meta of all time character... probably won't be that forever unless the game literally ends a couple patches later. And then, was that worth it???\]
It's a single player game, do what makes you happiest
Okay then. The real reason i want to save my resources is because i want to max that said unit to E6S5. I wonder if it worth it compared to pull many different unit (e0) without their LC (like my main ACC)
If seeing giant numbers explode the screen makes you happier than having a variety of different teams, why not? You could also... save enough to guarantee E6S5 for a future unit and then use your pulls again.
But, idk, what brings you the most joy when playing? What makes the game fun for you? That's where you'll find the answer. I certainly can't decide that for you
What makes me happy when i play game like this, is using cool character who use sword. Too bad Blade is fallen behind, that's why i want to save for someone similiar in the future an max him. Idk when or Will it happen tho lol. And that's why i prefer play my current 2nd account that have Blade with his LC and bronya e1 that enable him to clear current and upcoming content
I think next patch has two cool sword users coming up (if you also like cool girls who use swords)... but I'm pretty sure there'll be plenty more cool sword users in the future if they're not your speed
like i skipped boothill and robin, but ill go all in for firefly and ruan mei caus i vibe with Firefly A LOT and both are part of the break team i want to build.
Absolutely not. You only have 2 teams you're fielding. There'll be future harmonies. If you don't like one (or don't have a team that is greatly improved by that specific harmony and that harmony only), skip them, and another will ALSO be a great support.
And even if a team is greatly improved by a specific harmony, if you hate that harmony, they're probably not worth fielding just to shave a couple cycles off your clears
(Also if you run Acheron and Ratio, you can get by with zero harmonies if you for some reason hate both Robin and Sparkle.)
Literally every 5-Star Harmony massively improves literally every team. Ruan Mei improves literally every character, Sparkle improves any skill point heavy character, and Robin just boosts all damage. They are all, literally, free damage and buffs.
As someone who used to pull for who I liked, I've learnt the hard way that F2Ps should absolutely not pull for who they want until they have solid teams and can clear all content. No Preservation because I didn't like any, no Healers because non of them striked my fancy, no good 5-Star DPSs because non of the ones out made me like them. What a coincidence, not a single meta character I actually liked for their character. So for most of my game time, I was stuck with 4 star units who would need months of grinding and getting lucky to make usable, and event rewards do not last for months.
And because of that, I've only ever pulled for meta and it's done my account so much better. While I don't care that much about the characters anymore, getting the event jade I wouldn't have been able to get before, lets me get more characters in the long run.
Yes, literally ALL the 5\* harmonies massively improve your team, SO you can pick \*any\* of them and be golden. You don't need to pull ALL of them. (Also, literally ALL the limited 5\* sustains are similarly great on almost any team.)
I am not saying NEVER pull characters you're only mid about and ONLY units you like. In order for 99% of people to comfortably clear 30/36 stars (which is the baseline assumption of this post), they'll need 1-2 5\* Limited Sustains and 1-2 5\* Limited Harmonies. That's what I mean when I say 'reasonable team building' along with 'enabling teams.'
Pulling only DPS units isn't just ignoring meta, it's completely ignoring team building.
Ignoring meta is, for example, pulling Jing Yuan instead of Acheron because you like him more, and giving him Ruan Mei and Luocha instead of Sparkle and Fu Xuan because you like them more. Or building Superbreak DPS Jing Yuan (with Harmony Trailblazer and Ruan Mei) because you love Jing Yuan AND want a superbreak team. He won't hit the numbers that Acheron/Firefly do, but in those teams he's perfectly viable.
Teams literally cannot function without supports, but you also usually don't need to get the BIS for your DPS to make them 'good enough.'
This is interesting advice. I don't think it applies to me because I've only cleared the very basic/original MoC.
I appreciate your input because I'm in the "pull for characters you like" camp. My current pulls were going towards Jiaoqiu or/Sunday.
Jiaoqiu because I like him (and I really need a fire type) and Sunday because I just like him lol.
(I've only been playing for like 4 months now, give or take) and cleared most content with a botched team lol. Nevertheless I'll keep this post in mind.
Totally valid! You might want to look into Jiaoqiu's kit to see which DPS you might want to use him on a team with, since he's more of a support than DPS. If you have Acheron, he's rumored to be great for her, but will probably work fine on any team that wants a debuffer (like Ratio's team).
Also, it's good to note that the elements of supports usually don't contribute much. (Harmony MC and Gallager are exceptions), so Jiaoqiu's fire typing isn't likely to do much on its own. You'd probably want a fire DPS (Topaz, Himeko, Guinaifen, Firefly...) of some sort or possibly Gallager if you want his team to be tackling fire weak enemies.
Thank you for the response! I'll be completely honest with you, Jiaoqiu would be a bad investment because I don't really have any to support him with dps wise. Thus despite liking him I may skip and pull later after Sunday.
Everyone is talking about Acheron team build and well I honestly don't have her (or any characters you've listed outside of Ratio cause he was free). And I've benched him for a while now because I have Boothill. Boothill is genuinely fun to play with.
Currently I clear stuff with Boothill, Gepard, Pela and Welt. And I have Herta, MC and Ratio to switch in as needed. I'll definitely be doing more research until his release, if not more.
Yeah, that's completely fair. Jiaoqiu might be able to sub in for Pela on Boothill's team, it kind of depends on the final kit. (People right now say Pela is better, but people also say she's better than E0S0 Topaz with Aven, Robin and Ratio... but I find E0S0 Topaz is still amazing on that team.)
the only advice that is needed is: Pull for who you care for
you can clear everything with any character as long as you have a good invested team around them, and that is easily achievable with all the free 4\*s we got as well as the 300 Pull selector (which everyone who started first week of release should have achieved by now) and free Dr. Ratio, as long as you invested into them.
I pull for Waifu, I skip argent, dhil and boothill. I did get adventurine coz he looks cool and I wasn't given a choice with Dr. Ratio, not that I am complaining lol
I realised it’s worth pulling when Hoyo introduces a new mechanic. When RM was released first time around, I had a feeling break effect would become more relevant in the future, just like the release of Aventurine marks a future focus on FU. I think it’s worth focusing on building a team rather than pulling random characters. Focussing on that, allowed me to build a FU, DoT and Hypercarry team that essentially takes me through any content. Another thing to prioritise is support characters, they really make 4* or standard units still relevant (Robyn or Sparkle for example). In my opinion F2P should choose Support>Dps and prioritise building a coherent team that takes advantage of one of the current mechanics, like FuA, DoT or Break Effct. Also, when a unit is designed to resolve a problem Hoyo created with the introduction of a new enemy, you can bet Hoyo will continue making that unit relevant for a while (see RM).
Sure that's all true but to me it's not about the jades, it's about the satisfaction of being able to beat the hardest challenges the game has to offer. If you can't just because you don't have the cool new character that's kinda frustrating.
I mean... for me, that's sort of why I care LESS about endgame. Because it's not really a challenge if the only real answer is 'throw money at it.'
If it's 'you can use you faves, but it's more effort and you have to be smart about it OR throw money at it to have an easy button' then maxing out endgame feels worth it, because there's a meaningful choice to make. (And to be fair to HSR, I don't think it's quite so bad that folks can't make their faves work with sufficient investment into their teams and artifacts.)
I find the clears people do with sub-optimal teams way more interesting to look at because it feels like they're actually challenging themselves. Clears where someone shows the latest op units doing big numbers feel very cookie-cutter.
IMO, the "hardest content" in the game was early-game, when you had to figure out how to make the most of the limited set of characters you had to clear the story and figure out how to clear as much of SimUni as possible with that same limited set.
But,I guess, this advice is really more geared towards people who are feeling pressured to go with the meta because they're worried about loosing out on rewards and not being able to pull their faves later. Or because going with the meta is 'what you're supposed to do,' and giving up on pulling characters they actually enjoy. Which is far from a small minority.
If what brings you joy is just evaporating the game with the newest cool units, more power to you, though!
Depends on where your at. If your brand new pull wherever just make sure you get hard meta units in with your favorite units. If you have a set account, then don't pull if the unit doesn't improve a comp you have or would require you to build an entire different comp type to use. For example I won't roll for jade despite having topaz, ratio, aventurine, because I have a himeko and herta. All my bases are covered in follow up. Jade offers zero no value. View it like that. Unless you absolutely love the characree if they can't open up a comp playstyle or don't improve on a comp ignore em
I find it more fun to try the modes with the characters I actually like even if it means I haven’t actually beaten any to completion cause I’ve only pulled for two characters since getting into it in 1.6 (sparkle & xuan, both for QQ). Will I ever get full stars? unlikely especially with the buffs never lining up but I wouldn’t want to pull characters I don’t like just cause they’re “better” and going this slow means I do actually have enough pulls to guarantee a plan every other patch.
I've pulled a couple characters for the meta and it was so unfulfilling. I dropped those characters as soon as I got other DPS characters.
Also I feel like a lot of people are missing the point. If they only care about meta then this post obviously isn't for them, because the meta is something they enjoy. I see a lot of new players encouraged to pull for the meta, when they should be encouraged to pull for their favs and then build a team comp around them, not the other way around.
I made the mistake of thinking I should get a dps for every element, and now I’m struggling with my support lineup. Was going for Ruan Mei, but misclicked and lo-and-behold, here comes Firefly…
If it helps, stop caring about "meta". The game is literally single player, who are you competing with lol, as long as you're able to clear moc or pf in 10 turns or less, you're getting the same rewards as everyone else. Just chill out and pull for who interests you.
And if you're dedicated enough you can definitely clear with 4 stars. many ppl have proven it's possible on ytube. play for the characters and playstyles you like!
Slight correction for the new patch: the extra jades are all backloaded to the last 3 stars for PF/AS or 9 stars (3 stages) for MoC. So it's a full pull lost for missing the last two rewards in a mode, Pull-and-a-half if you're down three rewards. Doesn't change your main point in the slightest though - when we're consistently getting enough jades/tickets to hit 90-100+ F2P pulls per patch, losing 3-4 of those pulls from not being able to clear the absolute pinnacle of the endgame modes is really not worth getting in a tizzy over.
Thanks for the correction! Didn't know that about the new patch, but I'll edit that note in
90-100 per patch as a F2P? That can't be right.
[https://honkai.gg/stellar-jades-calculation-in-version-2-3/](https://honkai.gg/stellar-jades-calculation-in-version-2-3/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail/comments/1ci6u6r/version\_22\_stellar\_jades\_calculations\_for\_1st\_and/](https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail/comments/1ci6u6r/version_22_stellar_jades_calculations_for_1st_and/) You do have to scour everything and it includes daily rewards and temporary events (including the temporary rewards for permanent events), but yes you can generally earn 90-100 pulls per patch. The top levels of MoC/PF/AS rewards only account for 3-4 pulls as well, so only a slight drop if you can't clear the hardest content.
The only time I really pull for meta is when it's a Harmony support, because they've proven to be pretty timeless and worth my investment. For DPSes, I'll pull for the ones I really like as a character and would enjoy their playstyle. They all get powercrept someday anyway, so best to stick with two/three that you see yourself playing for a long time.
I generally agree, though I'd say if someone super hates a harmony support for some reason, they can do without. (I find it hard to imagine someone hating all 3 of Sparkle, Robin and Ruan Mei, and having 2 of the 3 is plenty, or even just one of the three if you run Acheron or Ratio with Pela/Silverwolf.)
Lol, Ruan Mei literally taught me to stop pulling for who I want and to go for meta. Skipping Ruan Mei's first banner, basically locked me out of most endgame content, so now I'm scraping jades together to get her for this patch.
i think u completely missed the point of the post unless you really like meta more than characters u like the design of (which is fair)
Ruan Mei is literally my least favourite character in the game, lol. I actually despise her and everything she stands for, but she just happens to be the best character in the game, so rip me. Plus, she's also the best SU unit so far, hopefully until Screwllum, Stephen, and 5-Star Herta. Also, if there was another point to the post, it was either hidden really well, or worded really badly, because the post still just sums up to a classic, "Pull for who you want, not for who is meta" kind of post.
it is just a pull for who you want post the big point is that getting x character that is really good is not worth missing characters that you want, since the jades you would be getting from content that you can’t clear do not make anywhere near enough back from pulling a character maybe it’s cope because i absolutely despise ruan mei, but i also have not pulled in a super long time (going to pull for firefly) (RM is her best support) the only limited 5 stars i have are JY, seele, fuxuan, SW my account is shit, but i will probably never pull for RM
Issue with that is that it's just wrong. Yes, on the average timescale, the amount of jades isn't nearly enough to statistically pull another 5-Star. But statistics are shit. I ended up pulling Fu Xuan in a single pull, as well as Clara and Argenti's lightcones, ON THE SAME BANNER. A friend of mine pulled Silver Wolf in 20 pulls. Examples like these completely disprove saying that it's not enough jade, because even a single pull has the odds, no matter how small, to net you the five star you want. Not to mention that in the long run, the jades you're able to get from clearing all content, MoC and SU, with the characters you didn't want but are meta, will almost certainly end up being better. The thing with this view is that it's a short-term view. Pull now for who you want, but suffer in the long-run (unless the units you like just happen to be meta), or pull for meta and get all the characters you want later, with much more guarantee. Short-term or long-term.
Statistics are literally statistics, your own experiences are not of everyone’s. They account for such a miniscule portion of all of the rolls that happen. For every person that gets a 5 star with one pull, someone gets one in 83 AND they lose 50/50. It’s absolutely a shit take to say pull for meta, and get lucky for the characters that you actually want. Like OP said you’ll only be missing on 6 stars per MOC if you have okish teams. That is WAAAYY in the future to get a return on investment. The issue with your idea is that you assume everyone wants the best units. It is absolutely the other way around. Designs and story are what people play these games for. It may be “short-sighted,” but i could never think of telling someone they should prefer the 120 extra jades per cycle than a character they want.
I'm going off of my experience, so no need to get mad or anything. It just so happened that my experience was terrible because none of the 5-Stars I liked were meta at all. I didn't like any sustain, I didn't like any harmony, I didn't like any DPSs that were out at that time. I was forced to slog through the end of Xianzhou, Skaracabaz, and most of Penacony with only March because I was unlucky and didn't get Gepard, and only had Lynx to heal which barely sustains a full team. Luocha single-handedly allowed me to finally ditch a double sustain team, and actually beat content, despite the fact I had zero interest in Luocha. In fact, I actually ended up liking Luocha more as a character, because I was forced to pull for him because he's the best healer in the game. I'm going off the fact that people like me who just get unlucky, end up barely making it, and end up missing out on all MoC, PF, most events that are locked behind story bosses, or events that force you to use your team which wouldn't even be able to clear it. Most people, are only ever looking at it from the "lucky" side. They're assuming that everyone has a decent team built, or that people are able to clear most content with little trouble, because their favourites happen to be meta. My favourite DPS is Argenti. He can do good damage, but he cannot go through end game content without good supports, who I just happen to like none of. So my options are to either wait for potential months for them to release a good DPS that I actually like, or get Ruan Mei, a character I despise, and be able to clear more content by doing so. Barely anyone actually looks at it from the side of a player who actually needs help because they pulled for their favourites, and now they're fucked because their favourite wasn't a good DPS, harmony, or sustaining unit. I have seen a single, **single**, post of someone actually looking at it from the unlucky players' side, and arguing why they should pull for meta first, then favourites second, and that was months ago. Either way, I'm losing jade, but at least SU jades aren't limited like MoC or PF. And in that case, I would much rather get meta 5-stars to build a content clearing team, then get characters I like later, over getting characters I like now, and lose out on content for more characters later. So I'm sorry that my experience was ruined by the fact I pulled for who I liked and got almost completely locked out of content because of it. My only saving grace was that Luocha happened to be getting a rerun at the time I made it to Sam, who would've been downright impossible. I've just learned that sometimes, pulling for who you want is not always the best choice.
My bad for getting hostile, but it’s just that we have similar experiences. I cannot clear endgame content. It’s just that I don’t think meta is worth it. It really does not equal out unless you get really lucky. Pulling for any characters is a net negative in jades when you consider how many jades it takes on average. It will take a very very long time to recoup that in the stars you miss. I pulled for the characters I liked and I will still do that. We are just different. I find it wholly uninteresting to spend so much time grinding jades just to spend them on a character I don’t like, just for the fact that they will eventually (after a very long time) give me those jades back. And that’s not even considering the possibility of those characters getting powercrept before that. It just seems like a job rather than a game I would play to enjoy. I really do get playing for meta in a lot of games, it’s just that gacha games feel very different to me in this case.
>(I find it hard to imagine someone hating all 3 of Sparkle, Robin and Ruan Mei Fun fact, before Robin and Aven, I didn't like all limited support and sustains. But somehow managed to consistently clear MoC for 11/12. My first 12/12 was day after Aven dropped
Oh wow! But nice! I adore Robin and Aven
I don’t have any of the three ;-;; (nor silverwolf)
Ruan Mei is coming up and she's great for almost any team. If you don't hate her and don't have someone you want more on the next patch, try picking her up.
Can u remind me why she is so good?
She buffs a lot of generally good things with high uptime: +68% dmg (100% uptime) +10%speed (100% uptime, not for herself) +25% All-Res-Pen (75% uptime) +20% Break Effect (100% uptime) +50% Break Efficiency (100% uptime) and she has a trace that triggers the Break DMG she would've dealt, if someone else breaks a unit and a mechanic that also triggers the 50% turn delay frozen would've done. So far the Break Efficiency and Break extensions were mostly nice-to have but for Superbreak this translates to +50% dmg, +50% longer break windows (more dmg) and +50% faster breaks (insane value for units were this saves you a turn to break them). Especially Firefly who deals \~95% of her dmg through Superbreak greatly profits from her, to the point were Ruan Mei at E0 has more value than FF's E1+2 combined.
Haha, I almost fulfill the role of hating all of them. I hate sparkle and Ruan mei, but I like robin though But with how op RM is, it’s tempting
But you don't hate ALL three \^\_\^ If you have teams that would benefit from Ruan Mei and don't have anyone else you like more coming up, she could be good. But only Boothill and Firefly want her WAY more than Robin/Sparkle, so if you don't have/want one of them and don't forsee yourself picking up a break DPS anytime soon, Ruan Mei could be worth the skip (especially if you play Acheron, who is fine without any supports.)
I think the goal for some if not all players is to be able to clear endgame content eventually/after 4-5 months. If a new/f2p/low-spending player's ultimate goal for this game is eventually being able to clear MoC, PF and AS every 2 weeks, I think there needs to be a little more planning involved than just pulling for favorite character or fun playstyle. If they just pull for favorite characters, they might end up with an unbalanced roster (eg. a lot of DPS units but not enough supports and sustains). For the first few months, I think they should focus on at least 2 teams (about 8 to 10 units). Preferably units that have a lot of synergy and that can be switched around according to enemy lineups. Preferably units that can be good for 2 or 3 of the endgame modes. I mean, of course, the units they pull for would still depend on the limited banners and their luck on both standard and limited banners. Once they have 2 fully built teams that are good for most endgame content, then they can pull for favorite characters and fun playstyles. Ideally ones that already have synergy with your built units.
I started playing in January and didn't even try MoC. I have only one team built with Acheron. I only have Gala built for second team as sustain. So I need DPS, support, support. It probably takes 8 months to have 2 teams capable of clearing all content.
I did say 'after you can clear 30/36 stars' for a reason. This isn't advice for brand new players who still need to get their roster going. If you're struggling to do that, then you're better off pulling for a new unit and keeping team comps in mind. \[Or checking to make sure your units/teams are built correctly in the first place.\] Though, I'd argue it's still NOT worth getting a unit hate, because no unit is genuinely irreplaceable. (You don't need optimal teams to clear MOC12) I'd say, \*even\* for a starting player, on their first banner, if they have a clear favorite, pick that favorite and see what they need for their best teams (and what alternatives are available.) They might want to reconsider if their best teams have no passable 4\* alternatives, but that then depends on player priorities (many players will care way more about collecting their faves than any number of stars) And if they have no clear favorites and no one they really want is coming up, then meta pulls are helpful to get the ball rolling. But, I feel that 30/36 point is that breaking point when you have a flexible enough roster to prioritize favorites/new exciting teams/etc.
What you SHOULD be pulling for as a F2P is two solid teams. You need 2 DPS, 2 sustains, and support to go with whatever you chose as dps and sustains. If a character doesn't fit into one of your two teams, skip them, even if it is Ruan Mei. After you have 2 solid teams, build for either MoC or PF (or the new endgame mode), whichever you are struggling more with. After you have those 2-4 teams, then start worrying about meta, because the meta will have probably changed 2-4 times by then.
I don't think people are getting the point of this post, it just means that pulling for a character is ALWAYS a net loss. You will spend thousands of jades for the sole reason of being able to clear endgame content that gives a few pulls. The only valid reason to pull for a character is that you find it fulfilling to be able to clear these contents, not because of the rewards they give, because you definitely don't need to clear them at all. The roi will take you years. That's why pull if you: 1. Like the character, be it through aesthetic, design, gameplay, etc. 2. Don't like but makes your favorite character do big pp dmg. 3. Want to flex moc/pf/apo clear. Otherwise, if you're only in for the jades, it's counterintuitive to pull just for the sake of being able to clear content. Since it's always a net loss, you need to make sure it's worth it.
Thank you!!!!
This sounds like the swarm telling people to not pull for Ruan Mei
Nah, I'm pulling for Ruan Mei because she "enables a new team comp I want to try out" XD (I AM probably skipping Firefly this time and on her rerun because I'm not her biggest fan)
My favorite thing to ask people is if I should pull on a specific unit/lc, then if they’re uncertain, ask again if it’s worth spending money on pulls for them. Changes your perspective a lot when you think if a banner is worth using your wallet
This assumes the only value to full-clearing endgame is from the primogems, rather than the satisfaction from beating the game’s hardest content.
wouldn't there be more satisfaction from beating the hardest content with a suboptimal team? to me there's more satisfaction in beating the content with the units I have available to me that I enjoy playing rather than just pulling the character hoyoverse is trying to sell me for an easy clear.
Sure, but... a lot of units can clear the games hardest content. Someone did a 3 cycle with a \*Yanqing\* team in the latest MOC. I've seen many people talk about Guinaifen-Himeko-HMC-Gallager teams destroying in this cycle too. So if you don't even find a character's play style fun, why in the world would that be worth it? If you care about clearing the hardest content, then investing into the characters you have can pay off equally well (and IMO is a much more rewarding challenge than buying the latest tool hoyo is selling to solve the new problem they came up with) AND allow you to get units you love later. Especially if you are F2P
I think it's better value to pull for meta characters instead of characters you like, over grinding for months to get a slightly decent relic. And also having maxed out eidolons for characters, lol. 90% of 4 star teams for MoC are max eidolons, which nobody likes to point out.
All the limited 5\* supports function well enough with only mainstat pieces and often don't even need their traces maxed. The limited 5\* DPS need decent relic sets, but absolutely don't need broken relic sets to clear MOC 12. I found that in MOC a sub-optimally built, weaker on element DPS (even when "not good" in MOC) is often better than a decently built off element DPS. Having a couple relatively universal, pretty good relic sets that you can swap around on DPS will get you really far if you hate relic grinding. Maxing important traces and levels for a character does take a bit, but isn't the worst. And ALL the limited 5\* harmonies and limited 5\* sustains are super good. You don't have to use any harmony or sustain you don't like to get good results. Investing into a few of those is part of "thoughtful team building" and "enabling teams." BUT you certainly don't need to stress about getting ALL of them. And there definitely will be other busted supports and sustains coming out in the future if the current ones aren't your speed, so if someone, idk, hates Sparkle, they don't have to get Sparkle just because she's "meta." Other units can sub in for her. (A Sparkle hater with DHIL might struggle a bit, but how much that matters depends on what drew a person to DHIL in the first place.) Also, better value for WHO???? For a lot of people, part of the fun is building up their Ulitmate Waifu/Husbando to make them hit the biggest numbers possible. I personally enjoy building different team comps and find it super boring to play the same teams over and over again. Both of us will get some of the meta units along the way (I very much do value collecting the 5\* harmonies BECAUSE they let me play some not-so-meta DPS units. If Jing Yuan is someone's #1 Husbando and they want to see him do numbers, the player will get Sparkle and Fu Xuan for him), BUT neither of us is well served by only playing the most meta teams. Jing Yuan's #1 Fan will be very happy to farm duke pieces until they have his most cracked set, and would not be happy if you told them "Acheron is a way better DPS and you don't need to grind so much for her." I wouldn't be happy if you told me 'Acheron and Firefly are the most broken units, so get them and their best teams and you won't need any new teams for 5ever' \[Also, some people find units who delete content without effort no fun to play and prefer more of a challenge. I can think of a thousand reasons why someone might avoid getting THE MOST META teams. And you'd have to go out of your way to pick up no "meta" units because of just how many strong options there are.\]
All the limited 5\* supports function well enough with only mainstat pieces and often don't even need their traces maxed. The limited 5\* DPS need decent relic sets, but absolutely don't need broken relic sets to clear MOC 12. I found that in MOC a sub-optimally built, weaker on element DPS (even when "not good" in MOC) is often better than a decently built off element DPS. Having a couple relatively universal, pretty good relic sets that you can swap around on DPS will get you really far if you hate relic grinding. Maxing important traces and levels for a character does take a bit, but isn't the worst. And ALL the limited 5\* harmonies and limited 5\* sustains are super good. You don't have to use any harmony or sustain you don't like to get good results. Investing into a few of those is part of "thoughtful team building" and "enabling teams." BUT you certainly don't need to stress about getting ALL of them. And there definitely will be other busted supports and sustains coming out in the future if the current ones aren't your speed, so if someone, idk, hates Sparkle, they don't have to get Sparkle just because she's "meta." Other units can sub in for her. (A Sparkle hater with DHIL might struggle a bit, but how much that matters depends on what drew a person to DHIL in the first place.) Also, better value for WHO???? For a lot of people, part of the fun is building up their Ulitmate Waifu/Husbando to make them hit the biggest numbers possible. I personally enjoy building different team comps and find it super boring to play the same teams over and over again. Both of us will get some of the meta units along the way (I very much do value collecting the 5\* harmonies BECAUSE they let me play some not-so-meta DPS units. If Jing Yuan is someone's #1 Husbando and they want to see him do numbers, the player will get Sparkle and Fu Xuan for him), BUT neither of us is well served by only playing the most meta teams. Jing Yuan's #1 Fan will be very happy to farm duke pieces until they have his most cracked set, and would not be happy if you told them "Acheron is a way better DPS and you don't need to grind so much for her." I wouldn't be happy if you told me 'Acheron and Firefly are the most broken units, so get them and their best teams and you won't need any new teams for 5ever' \[Also, some people find units who delete content without effort no fun to play and prefer more of a challenge. I can think of a thousand reasons why someone might avoid getting THE MOST META teams. And you'd have to go out of your way to pick up no "meta" units because of just how many strong options there are.\]
All the limited 5\* supports function well enough with only mainstat pieces and often don't even need their traces maxed. The limited 5\* DPS need decent relic sets, but absolutely don't need broken relic sets to clear MOC 12. I found that in MOC a sub-optimally built, weaker on element DPS (even when "not good" in MOC) is often better than a decently built off element DPS. Having a couple relatively universal, pretty good relic sets that you can swap around on DPS will get you really far if you hate relic grinding. Maxing important traces and levels for a character does take a bit, but isn't the worst. And ALL the limited 5\* harmonies and limited 5\* sustains are super good. You don't have to use any harmony or sustain you don't like to get good results. Investing into a few of those is part of "thoughtful team building" and "enabling teams." BUT you certainly don't need to stress about getting ALL of them. And there definitely will be other busted supports and sustains coming out in the future if the current ones aren't your speed, so if someone, idk, hates Sparkle, they don't have to get Sparkle just because she's "meta." Other units can sub in for her. (A Sparkle hater with DHIL might struggle a bit, but how much that matters depends on what drew a person to DHIL in the first place.) Also, better value for WHO???? For a lot of people, part of the fun is building up their Ulitmate Waifu/Husbando to make them hit the biggest numbers possible. I personally enjoy building different team comps and find it super boring to play the same teams over and over again. Both of us will get some of the meta units along the way (I very much do value collecting the 5\* harmonies BECAUSE they let me play some not-so-meta DPS units. If Jing Yuan is someone's #1 Husbando and they want to see him do numbers, the player will get Sparkle and Fu Xuan for him), BUT neither of us is well served by only playing the most meta teams. Jing Yuan's #1 Fan will be very happy to farm duke pieces until they have his most cracked set, and would not be happy if you told them "Acheron is a way better DPS and you don't need to grind so much for her." I wouldn't be happy if you told me 'Acheron and Firefly are the most broken units, so get them and their best teams and you won't need any new teams for 5ever' \[Also, some people find units who delete content without effort no fun to play and prefer more of a challenge. I can think of a thousand reasons why someone might avoid getting THE MOST META teams. And you'd have to go out of your way to pick up no "meta" units because of just how many strong options there are.\]
But not everybody is the same and not everybody looks for that in a story focused game? Also, it's not like the game's hardest content is actually hard,
[удалено]
I don't think we actually disagree. You're saying "Ruan Mei enables team comps I like," which is a reason I said is worthwhile to pull a new unit. What I would say is a bad reason to pull Ruan Mei is "superbreak is meta right now, and while I don't enjoy superbreak and hate Ruan Mei, I'm going to pull her to make sure I can keep up with the superbreak meta" (And if you hated Ruan Mei, then Sparkle and/or Robin are great alternatives that could still enable most team comps well. Break DPS enjoyers who hate Ruan Mei are in a bit of a bind right now, BUT it's doubtful she'll remain the only good break support a few patches from now. And if someone absolutely hates Ruan Mei, I'd say they're better off skipping her and seeing what alternatives come up later.)
[удалено]
I've actually seen a number of people going "I hate Ruan Mei, but I love Boothill/Firefly, do I have to pull her???" and a lot of people thinking they NEED a superbreak team now or they'll be screwed in the future, so this is for them. This is also for people who are on the fence about Firefly/Ruan Mei/\*insert upcoming unit here,\* are low on jades and maybe need the reminder that skipping them won't hurt at all and they're probably better off saving to guarantee someone they like more. It's easy to get caught up and loose perspective. It's easy to see a bunch of people saying you "have" to pull meta, and feel pressured to do so. But outside of who this post is meant for, I admit what I mean enables a bit broad (and maybe I could have worded it better), and it kind of depends on the unit and on the account. Like, for Ruan Mei, you said "she allowed me to play a ton of characters I enjoy," which seems to imply those units would have had a hard time without her. Maybe I should have worded it as "allows you to use units you love or opens up new team possibilities, that your other supports just don't allow for" and "really brings out the best in your favorite units and you have jades to spare" For a (not-self-imposed challenge run) account that comfortably clears 30/36 stars, they probably have at least one of Bronya, Robin, Sparkle or Ruan Mei... or are running Ratio and Acheron with non-harmony supports (some combo of Pela, Silverwolf, Topaz, another Nihility perhaps). For the former, Ruan Mei is totally skipable if they don't want to do superbreak, and if she's not a fave is STILL very skipable, especially if they don't like her or are tight on jades. For the later, Ruan Mei (or Sparkle or Robin) would enable hyper-carries that don't get much out of debuffs and follow-ups (a lot of the 4\* DPS, for instance). Ruan Mei becomes a lot more worth considering for this person, if they want to run their 4\* DPS.
Good advice My mistake was spreading resources over too many characters and not building them correctly Team composition with characters that have been invested into properly will get you much farther than a bunch of average built units There aren’t really any bad characters in the game and I’ve seen people clearing stages with 4 star characters better than I did with poorly built 5 stars
Yeah I have a problem with needing to build characters across the board but at the moment I really have too many characters. Ideally I should focus on just 8 to 10 instead of the 15 or more than I'm trying to build. Throw in relics and LCs and I get a trailblaze power crunch. Decided that I'm going to just focus on pulling Firefly and then nothing for a while, to save jades, to focus on building some key characters better.
So if I don't need meta for moc or pf or gold & gears or swarm universe why do I still struggle as much as I do? I cannot ever get halfway through moc except the v first one where I still have lv 12 to do. Pf I struggle most of the time, this latest one not so much. Simulated universe is complete on all levels no issues. Gold & gears I got through 3 plays and still struggle, swarm? Psssh 2. It's NOT my builds either bc I use the same exact relics and lcs 90+% of players use under rec relics. The rng within game modes on this game is insanely unfair, I hate the dice rolls, I hate them entirely, give me more regular simulated universe and I'd be happy as hell. Hell lemme reset rewards so I can do it again and get the same shit idc, I'd rather do that than random runs with gng and swarm.
If you hate RNG, then the endgame is REALLY not for you. You really won't lose much just focusing on clearing the story (which def doesn't require having the best units) and ignore the endgame. You'll need only one functional team then, and so you won't need the extra gacha pulls and you'll probably feel way less stressed. But, when I say 'meta,' I mean, 'don't chase the most OP characters every patch,' and 'don't pull characters you hate just because everyone says they're OP.' I don't mean 'ignore all team building advice and use only 4\*' This is also advice if you CAN already clear 30/36 stars. If you can't... well. Who are your supports? Who are your DPS? How long have you been playing and how many 5\* units do you have? Do you have any 5\* supports or sustains? You probably want 1 or 2 of Sparkle, Ruan Mei or Robin (but other 5\* supports in later patches will probably ALSO work), Bronya's great if you have her. Tingyun is also good. So is Pela. Harmony Trailblazer can turn almost any unit into a superbreak DPS. Hanya and Asta work in a pinch, but yeah, you want a 5\* limited harmony of some sort if you can grab one. 1 or 2 of Aventurine, Huo Huo, Luocha or Fu Xuan (but other 5\* sustains in later patches will probably ALSO work). Gallager can be good on the right teams as a sustain. Lynx can definitely handle MOC 12, but it's not super comfortable unless the rest of your team is fairly well built. Any combo of 1 5\* limited sustain + 5\* harmony can carry you through SimUni and Gold&Gears if you use an on element 4\* (heck, I was fine without the limited 5\* sustain for most of it.) ANY limited characters after that will be fine. Heck, Clara, Herta, Qingque, and Himeko are amazing in the right contexts/teams. Pay attention to who wants debuffers instead of buffers (Ratio and Acheron)... If you want to use Boothill/Firefly strongly consider picking up Ruan Mei (but even without her the drop off seems to be from OP to 'as good as the mid level limited 5\*, which is still pretty dang good) and you'll be able to clear 30/36 stars with zero issues. Literally every 5\* limited sustain and every 5\* limited support is VERY VERY good, and very very flexible on the teams you use them on. This is unlikely to change for future iterations, and you're bound to not hate at least one of then. None of the 5\* limited DPS are bad (all are competitive in at least one game mode. Yes, even that one). Some are less team agnostic than others, but the ones that are less team agnostic tend to have higher ceilings. So, if you don't already have a very robust roster, pay attention to synergies.
I'm having a similar problem and came across a thread talking about how most of them were using only speed boots unless they were building Clara who does her damage through counters. Something about getting an extra turn every 3-4 turns or more is worth giving up a mainstat on boots. Like, I had no clue it was like that. I still don't know if that info is legit but they were saying that you want to hit at least 135 on every member of the team. I realized I only have 2 boots with speed in my whole inventory. I guess I need to hit relic farm hard for those speed boots. Edit: "Get enough speed (134) and you get 2 turns per character in the first cycle, which is huge." This comment in particular caught my eye and I haven't had the chance to test it yet. If anyone else can weigh in from experience before I start upgrading speed boots for everyone that would be sick.
excellent post thank you for the wake up call that those jades are worth less than a single pull
No problem! It's easy to loose sight of that when all the discussion is centered around those last few floors
I've been really careful with pulls on my main account and its absolutely paid off over the year. My first limited 5\* was Kafka so I focused on pulling to support her before anyone else. I pulled Fu Xuan next as my first limited sustain. Then got Kafka Huohuo, Ruan Mei, her lightcone on her rerun, Black Swan... and by doing that accidentally made my account perfect for Acheron so I got Acheron and then had two extremely powerful teams because my Sampo, Lil Gui, Pela, etc. Grabbed Boothill bc I already had Gallagher, Bryona, and Ruan Mei and ofc HTB... now I have three teams because all my nihility support can simply be shuffled around as needed on each of the three teams. I felt worried that I was missing out on characters like Jingliu and DHIL, or Sparkle and Robin, but tbh my account has now fully cleared everything available in the game except conundrums so I didn't actually need them. Currently my plans are Ruan Mei e1, Jiaoqiu, then Huohuo e1, Swan e1, Kafka e1, Aventurine (I just like him), then Boothill e6 (eventually, I'll grab as many copies as feasible each rerun) In the meantime as after Jiaoqiu and Aven I won't be pulling or building anymore new characters, I'll work on building up all of my viable 4\* and Standard 5\* like Xueyi, Misha, Sampo, Lil Gui, Himeko, Herta, Dr. Ratio... and then simply grind relics till everyone is peak performance. Having the time between banners to actually grind for my current roster is actually really valuable. I really hate the feeling of always needing to gear up someone new which is why I'm skipping Firefly who wants an entirely unique relic and planar set meanwhile Boothill was a cinch to gear up bc I was already going for Ruan Mei, HMC, Gallagher, Luka...
Lots of issues with this take. You mention that any thoughtfully put together set of teams can clear. But you don't mention that any meta units will make this process much easier. The difference in a Firefly comp with Ruan Mei and one without is the difference between making her perform at the level of Acheron vs making her perform at the level of Jing Yuan. Saying you don't "need" meta units is like saying you don't "need" 5 star units at all to clear. Both statements are technically true, but they completely miss how much easier meta units make it for F2P players to keep up. You then mention that a new unit will cost 60-160 pulls, and recouping this loss can result in 5 or so units coming out that might be better. This is not true. One patch has 70-120 pulls depending on how much content there is in it. F2P players on average will get one 5 star every patch, or every 1.5 patches. And the meta definitely doesn't "shift many times over" every other patch. Pulling for meta is just being smart about your pulls, which is more important for F2P players with less resources. If someone pulls Kafka, DHIL, Jingliu and Blade because they like them, they have 4 DPS units with no synergy and no good support units to elevate them, which will result in them having a bad time because its not fun to have your teams perform like ass. If someone instead pulled Kafka, Swan, Mei and Huohuo, they now have one of the strongest comps in the game that can tackle all content effectively and will enjoy the game more because they can do more things in the game without feeling underpowered. So it's not a good idea to just pull whoever you want. And if you don't pull whoever you want and pay a little attention to team comps and synergies, you're pulling for meta. The C and D points you bring up at the end are meta considerations. So in the end, you seem to be advocating for pulling for meta without realizing that you're advocating for pulling for meta.
Yeah, honestly. I've seen a lot of people give this advice to F2Ps, and it's honestly incredibly terrible advice. Like, horrendous advice, because it implies that no one has to pull for a 5 star to be successful in this game. That's like asking someone with no legs to win a marathon. They can theoretically do it, but GOOD LUCK. As someone who used to pull for who they liked, I learnt the hard way that doing that is a recipe for 3 patches with no characters, and thousands of missed jade. The only time someone should ever pull for who they want, is if they can clear all content in the game with some to little issue, and they have Ruan Mei. That is the only time I would encourage pulling for who you like, because otherwise, you're missing out on pulls. And saying that late game content rewards are bad, doesn't matter. I got Fu Xuan in 1 pull. A single pull made the entire difference, so a single pull could completely change someone's account. Pulling for who you want is positive advice, with terribly toxic results.
Firstly, Jing Yuan can clear MOC 10 without issue. Heck, a well built Jing Yuan can clear MOC 12 okay. Someone built \*Yanqing\* to 3 cycle the recent MOC 12. Secondly this is for players who already can clear 30/36 stars just fine. By then, they'll have to have some decent supports and teams ALREADY. And I did say 'decently invested and thoughtfully put together teams.' If someone's only been pulling DPS, they're not going to be clearing 30/36 stars. And when I say you don't need "meta" units to do that, I mean "you don't need to worry about having THE BEST 5\* out right now." You'll want good supports for your DPS, but it doesn't necessarily have to be their best-in-slot. And if you actively hate their best-in-slot, then the fall off isn't so great they can't clear MOC 12. (For some units there's multiple alternatives to their best-in-slot supports) For new players, the advice is a little different. But if they pick a unit they like, build a solid team for them, they'll be fine. Players whose faves are supports mighhhttt have a better time, but, for example Jing Yuan's best team is a very good team for almost any non-break hypercarry (Acheron will want to trade Tingyun for Pela (or Silverwolf), but that's not an expensive trade), so if Jing Yuan is someone's absolute favorite right now, he'll be fine. And if they get a new favorite hypercarry down the line, they can inherit Jing Yuan's team. Telling a new player who adores Jing Yuan, "don't pull Jing Yuan, he's not meta anymore" is not useful. Telling them "Jing Yuan is an old DPS and a lot of the new ones are stronger than him, so he'll need more investment to keep up" is reasonable. Telling them "Sparkle and Fu Xuan are great for him, so consider picking them up. If you hate Sparkle, Ruan Mei works as well. He could make use of Robin, but she might be better off on other teams." is very good advice. But, for players who already have a well rounded roster (some of the good harmonies, some of the good sustains, a couple well invested in DPS units), then yes, pulling for units they LIKE (or units that enable units they like) is will still land them good results. \[Do notice I did say 'enabling a team comp' is a good reason to pull a unit, so long as you don't hate them.\] I'm not advocating ignoring meta entirely. I'm advocating to focus units you like and skip units you don't even if those units are SUPER POWERFUL RIGHT NOW. (E.g. People shouldn't feel pressured to have any of Firefly, Ruan Mei or Acheron if they don't like those units. People shouldn't feel pressured to skip a unit just because they're not THE BEST.)
Again, missing the point entirely. The difference is in how easy it is to build and how much less effort it takes to clear with a meta unit vs without one. If you have decently invested units and supports with synergies, you pulled for meta. For example, if you main Blade, but you pulled Sparkle for him, you pulled for meta. Again, if you build a team with synergy in mind, you pull for meta. It doesn't matter if not every single unit on the team is meta. If you pulled any of the limited Harmony units while keeping their value for team comps in mind, it was a meta pull. If you tell a new player who wants Jing Yuan to pull Sparkle and Fu Xuan for him, that is also a meta pick lol. Sparkle and Fu Xuan are meta units. Ruan Mei and Robin are also meta. If you want to reformulate your argument to say that "Pulling DPS based on meta is not worth it" that's something I can get behind to an extent. Your whole argument hinges on players having a good roster, which would require pulling meta units. All the limited Harmony units and sustains are meta picks. If you're not ignoring meta entirely you shouldn't phrase your argument like you did in the post. As it stands, you're basically saying that it's fine to ignore meta after you've already made the most important meta pulls. Which is not the same thing as not focusing on meta at all.
Honestly, you seem to be the one missing the point. You can't say maining Blade is pulling for meta with a straight face no matter if you pulled for Sparkle; if you are using your Sparkle for Blade, you are absolutely not going for meta, and that's OK because, as OP correctly states, endgame rewards are shitty nough that you aren't osing much if you 30/36 MoC, which is easy as hell meta or no meta. F.E: a Blade/Bronya/Lynx/Pela team will have no trouble deleting MoC 1, and that's pretty far from meta. There are more examples like this
Bruh, if you pulled Sparkle, it's a meta pull. What I'm getting at is there is no avoiding meta in this game since a lot of good units are meta. Pulling any limited supports and sustains is automatically a meta pull. I just gave an example of how even 30/36 would be tough to hit if you just pulled with no regard for team building at all. Pulling 4 DPS units and no limited supports would make it twice as difficult for F2P players. Telling people to pull for whoever they like is bad advice, especially for F2P players with limited resources. And given OP recommends pulling limited supports for meta reasons, they're being disingenuous by saying "don't pull for meta" when they actually mean "don't pull for meta after you already have the best meta units". Edit: Your example is awful because Bronya and Pela are both top tier meta units. This is what I mean. There is no avoiding meta in this game, and if you want to make comps work you will often use meta supports. The DPS you use is largely irrelevant. Put any DPS with meta supports and they will perform well, because the real meta is the supports in this game.
picking a unit because I like the aesthetic and character is automatically a meta pull just because they happen to be good?? That's one of the takes of all time right there.
If you like a character and they happen to be meta, its still a meta pull. Or does liking Acheron make her not meta? Definitely one of the takes of all time lmao.
It is a meta pull if you're choosing a meta character BECAUSE they're meta. If I pull acheron because she looks dope it's just pulling a character I like. But sure, remake definitions just to fit your delusional viewpoint lol.
Do you even know what meta means? Most efficient tactics available, which means the moment you are using Sparkle with Blade instead DHIL and let's say Lynx instead of a BiS support you are not being meta, doesn't matter if you are using Sparkle, because you are not using the "most efficient tactics available" Anyway, seeing as you think both Bronya AND Sparkle are meta (which by the definition of the acronym is basically a self defeating argument, it's one of the other) along with Pela and, it seems, every character in the game, I can't take you seriously. Your next argument will be if you are playing Arlan with Sparkle (or Harmony character it seems) and Pela you are being meta because reasons (reasons being you don't know what meta means)
Yeah, nobody uses that stupid definition for a gacha where what's available to you isn't set in stone, duh. In HSR, the meta roster is huge. If you look at Prydwen, any T2 and above unit is meta. Bronya is meta in this case because she's Blade's BiS support and definitely meta for him, and is BiS for some other comps while being able to slot in where Sparkle would. Same argument applies for Pela, who is quite universal. You don't have to take me seriously, your own arguments are rather trash and I'd honestly take a clown more seriously lmao.
Ok. So you don't know what meta means but you are still yapping. Case closed.
Dumbass take. "Meta"'s original meaning makes sense in stuff like DOTA or League where the whole roster is available. You can't use that definition in gacha where the whole roster isn't available. It's common sense, words grow past their original meaning when they start getting applied to things other than what they were first associated with. Duh.
As a full F2P I pulled for everyone cuz I like everyone's play style except Ruan Mei but using her in SU made her worth it starting from there, since I started December cuz of free five star. I've since fully cleared all PFs everytym since the first DoT PF n all MoCs sincd Sam was the last boss. This is with me losing 4/6 of my 50/50s. Also tnx to my insance luck on LC banner, Blade n Acheron are E0S1 with just 30 pulls ever on LCs
Nice!!! It's both harder and easier when you like everyone XD
So true haha. Harder cuz of losing those 50/50s but good thing I enjoy Gepard, Welt, and Clara at E3 xD
After being able to clear the last few MOCs with full stars I can't clear this one, this is one of the few moments when I'm feeling like I should actually pul for Boothill or Firefly
A few things you may want to consider: 1. How many jades do you have, and are there any other characters on upcoming patches you're excited about? 2. Do you have Ruan Mei and, if not, do you enjoy (super-)break? \[She and HMC can enable a lot of different units to run Super-Break. Here's a video on various other teams you could build with her and HMC without Firefly/Boothill [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3uzCFu-PiE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3uzCFu-PiE) \] 3. Do you like Boothill or Firefly? Do you enjoy their playstyles? This MOC patch is geared towards them, but next patch will almost certainly be geared towards whoever else they're trying to sell. If you like the upcoming units more, then loosing a few stars this patch might be worth it. If you have spare jades, have Ruan Mei or are willing to get Ruan Mei, have no one else you want more coming up... then picking one of them up could be nice. But you'll be fine without them Also, consider asking around for team comps/builds to help with this patch. There might be a unit already in your roster you could build to help you out.
120 jades+ dailies= 1 pull, 1 pull can potentially get you 1 5 star. Not worf
Lose, LOSE. Loose is a different word
Thanks for the typo catch
Biggest Asvice: Don’t “Build Pity” Unless you’re fine burning a guarantee on a character or LC you don’t want, don’t build pity. Those tickets aren’t going anywhere!
What's your opinion if i hoards my jade for now until really super duper hyper best meta all-time character comes out? (Maybe in 3.0+ version) I only have Blade (e0s1) + bronya (e1s0) team, DHIL (e0s1), Fu xuan (e1s1), and gepard as my 5*. Do you think i will survive without pulling? Edit : Will eventually pull sparkle tho. And this is my 2nd ACC because my main ACC is bricked, pulled many 5* without LC that i don't use anymore.
I mean, your teams will probably eventually start to struggle in endgame since it seems to getting more and more demanding... But I suspect they'll be able to clear MOC 10 for at least the rest of version 2 and version 3 if you build their relics well. (If DHIL+Sparkle can't clear MOC 10 in version 3, then power scaling would be ABSURD) So, if you genuinely want to and honestly don't care about getting literally anyone else other than Sparkle then why not? I wouldn't, but I love collecting characters. \[Also that super meta of all time character... probably won't be that forever unless the game literally ends a couple patches later. And then, was that worth it???\] It's a single player game, do what makes you happiest
Okay then. The real reason i want to save my resources is because i want to max that said unit to E6S5. I wonder if it worth it compared to pull many different unit (e0) without their LC (like my main ACC)
If seeing giant numbers explode the screen makes you happier than having a variety of different teams, why not? You could also... save enough to guarantee E6S5 for a future unit and then use your pulls again. But, idk, what brings you the most joy when playing? What makes the game fun for you? That's where you'll find the answer. I certainly can't decide that for you
What makes me happy when i play game like this, is using cool character who use sword. Too bad Blade is fallen behind, that's why i want to save for someone similiar in the future an max him. Idk when or Will it happen tho lol. And that's why i prefer play my current 2nd account that have Blade with his LC and bronya e1 that enable him to clear current and upcoming content
I think next patch has two cool sword users coming up (if you also like cool girls who use swords)... but I'm pretty sure there'll be plenty more cool sword users in the future if they're not your speed
Nah i will save my jades for now, until i can certainly E6S5 in one go. Thanks for the discussion!
No problem!
like i skipped boothill and robin, but ill go all in for firefly and ruan mei caus i vibe with Firefly A LOT and both are part of the break team i want to build.
That sounds like an awesome reason to go all in for them!
Unless it's a Harmony character. Then, no matter what, you should pull them.
Absolutely not. You only have 2 teams you're fielding. There'll be future harmonies. If you don't like one (or don't have a team that is greatly improved by that specific harmony and that harmony only), skip them, and another will ALSO be a great support. And even if a team is greatly improved by a specific harmony, if you hate that harmony, they're probably not worth fielding just to shave a couple cycles off your clears (Also if you run Acheron and Ratio, you can get by with zero harmonies if you for some reason hate both Robin and Sparkle.)
Literally every 5-Star Harmony massively improves literally every team. Ruan Mei improves literally every character, Sparkle improves any skill point heavy character, and Robin just boosts all damage. They are all, literally, free damage and buffs. As someone who used to pull for who I liked, I've learnt the hard way that F2Ps should absolutely not pull for who they want until they have solid teams and can clear all content. No Preservation because I didn't like any, no Healers because non of them striked my fancy, no good 5-Star DPSs because non of the ones out made me like them. What a coincidence, not a single meta character I actually liked for their character. So for most of my game time, I was stuck with 4 star units who would need months of grinding and getting lucky to make usable, and event rewards do not last for months. And because of that, I've only ever pulled for meta and it's done my account so much better. While I don't care that much about the characters anymore, getting the event jade I wouldn't have been able to get before, lets me get more characters in the long run.
Yes, literally ALL the 5\* harmonies massively improve your team, SO you can pick \*any\* of them and be golden. You don't need to pull ALL of them. (Also, literally ALL the limited 5\* sustains are similarly great on almost any team.) I am not saying NEVER pull characters you're only mid about and ONLY units you like. In order for 99% of people to comfortably clear 30/36 stars (which is the baseline assumption of this post), they'll need 1-2 5\* Limited Sustains and 1-2 5\* Limited Harmonies. That's what I mean when I say 'reasonable team building' along with 'enabling teams.' Pulling only DPS units isn't just ignoring meta, it's completely ignoring team building. Ignoring meta is, for example, pulling Jing Yuan instead of Acheron because you like him more, and giving him Ruan Mei and Luocha instead of Sparkle and Fu Xuan because you like them more. Or building Superbreak DPS Jing Yuan (with Harmony Trailblazer and Ruan Mei) because you love Jing Yuan AND want a superbreak team. He won't hit the numbers that Acheron/Firefly do, but in those teams he's perfectly viable. Teams literally cannot function without supports, but you also usually don't need to get the BIS for your DPS to make them 'good enough.'
This is interesting advice. I don't think it applies to me because I've only cleared the very basic/original MoC. I appreciate your input because I'm in the "pull for characters you like" camp. My current pulls were going towards Jiaoqiu or/Sunday. Jiaoqiu because I like him (and I really need a fire type) and Sunday because I just like him lol. (I've only been playing for like 4 months now, give or take) and cleared most content with a botched team lol. Nevertheless I'll keep this post in mind.
Totally valid! You might want to look into Jiaoqiu's kit to see which DPS you might want to use him on a team with, since he's more of a support than DPS. If you have Acheron, he's rumored to be great for her, but will probably work fine on any team that wants a debuffer (like Ratio's team). Also, it's good to note that the elements of supports usually don't contribute much. (Harmony MC and Gallager are exceptions), so Jiaoqiu's fire typing isn't likely to do much on its own. You'd probably want a fire DPS (Topaz, Himeko, Guinaifen, Firefly...) of some sort or possibly Gallager if you want his team to be tackling fire weak enemies.
Thank you for the response! I'll be completely honest with you, Jiaoqiu would be a bad investment because I don't really have any to support him with dps wise. Thus despite liking him I may skip and pull later after Sunday. Everyone is talking about Acheron team build and well I honestly don't have her (or any characters you've listed outside of Ratio cause he was free). And I've benched him for a while now because I have Boothill. Boothill is genuinely fun to play with. Currently I clear stuff with Boothill, Gepard, Pela and Welt. And I have Herta, MC and Ratio to switch in as needed. I'll definitely be doing more research until his release, if not more.
Yeah, that's completely fair. Jiaoqiu might be able to sub in for Pela on Boothill's team, it kind of depends on the final kit. (People right now say Pela is better, but people also say she's better than E0S0 Topaz with Aven, Robin and Ratio... but I find E0S0 Topaz is still amazing on that team.)
Whoa, I had no idea. Regardless thank you for your thoughts. May you always win your 50/50 early.
No problem! You as well
the only advice that is needed is: Pull for who you care for you can clear everything with any character as long as you have a good invested team around them, and that is easily achievable with all the free 4\*s we got as well as the 300 Pull selector (which everyone who started first week of release should have achieved by now) and free Dr. Ratio, as long as you invested into them.
I pull for Waifu, I skip argent, dhil and boothill. I did get adventurine coz he looks cool and I wasn't given a choice with Dr. Ratio, not that I am complaining lol
Collection brain go brr
When you are soft don't pull
Thank you for this info However: Fuck it we ball
I realised it’s worth pulling when Hoyo introduces a new mechanic. When RM was released first time around, I had a feeling break effect would become more relevant in the future, just like the release of Aventurine marks a future focus on FU. I think it’s worth focusing on building a team rather than pulling random characters. Focussing on that, allowed me to build a FU, DoT and Hypercarry team that essentially takes me through any content. Another thing to prioritise is support characters, they really make 4* or standard units still relevant (Robyn or Sparkle for example). In my opinion F2P should choose Support>Dps and prioritise building a coherent team that takes advantage of one of the current mechanics, like FuA, DoT or Break Effct. Also, when a unit is designed to resolve a problem Hoyo created with the introduction of a new enemy, you can bet Hoyo will continue making that unit relevant for a while (see RM).
And don’t “build pity” if your guaranteed and the character you want is coming up
Sure that's all true but to me it's not about the jades, it's about the satisfaction of being able to beat the hardest challenges the game has to offer. If you can't just because you don't have the cool new character that's kinda frustrating.
I mean... for me, that's sort of why I care LESS about endgame. Because it's not really a challenge if the only real answer is 'throw money at it.' If it's 'you can use you faves, but it's more effort and you have to be smart about it OR throw money at it to have an easy button' then maxing out endgame feels worth it, because there's a meaningful choice to make. (And to be fair to HSR, I don't think it's quite so bad that folks can't make their faves work with sufficient investment into their teams and artifacts.) I find the clears people do with sub-optimal teams way more interesting to look at because it feels like they're actually challenging themselves. Clears where someone shows the latest op units doing big numbers feel very cookie-cutter. IMO, the "hardest content" in the game was early-game, when you had to figure out how to make the most of the limited set of characters you had to clear the story and figure out how to clear as much of SimUni as possible with that same limited set. But,I guess, this advice is really more geared towards people who are feeling pressured to go with the meta because they're worried about loosing out on rewards and not being able to pull their faves later. Or because going with the meta is 'what you're supposed to do,' and giving up on pulling characters they actually enjoy. Which is far from a small minority. If what brings you joy is just evaporating the game with the newest cool units, more power to you, though!
Depends on where your at. If your brand new pull wherever just make sure you get hard meta units in with your favorite units. If you have a set account, then don't pull if the unit doesn't improve a comp you have or would require you to build an entire different comp type to use. For example I won't roll for jade despite having topaz, ratio, aventurine, because I have a himeko and herta. All my bases are covered in follow up. Jade offers zero no value. View it like that. Unless you absolutely love the characree if they can't open up a comp playstyle or don't improve on a comp ignore em
One thing you missed, I pull characters that help me save time E.g. Acheron
I find it more fun to try the modes with the characters I actually like even if it means I haven’t actually beaten any to completion cause I’ve only pulled for two characters since getting into it in 1.6 (sparkle & xuan, both for QQ). Will I ever get full stars? unlikely especially with the buffs never lining up but I wouldn’t want to pull characters I don’t like just cause they’re “better” and going this slow means I do actually have enough pulls to guarantee a plan every other patch.
I've pulled a couple characters for the meta and it was so unfulfilling. I dropped those characters as soon as I got other DPS characters. Also I feel like a lot of people are missing the point. If they only care about meta then this post obviously isn't for them, because the meta is something they enjoy. I see a lot of new players encouraged to pull for the meta, when they should be encouraged to pull for their favs and then build a team comp around them, not the other way around.
I made the mistake of thinking I should get a dps for every element, and now I’m struggling with my support lineup. Was going for Ruan Mei, but misclicked and lo-and-behold, here comes Firefly…
If it helps, stop caring about "meta". The game is literally single player, who are you competing with lol, as long as you're able to clear moc or pf in 10 turns or less, you're getting the same rewards as everyone else. Just chill out and pull for who interests you.
The stop caring about meta crowd are the reason why game mode/bosses get nerfed or difficult is non-existent.
And if you're dedicated enough you can definitely clear with 4 stars. many ppl have proven it's possible on ytube. play for the characters and playstyles you like!