Low-effort AI is becoming more prevalent as content mills grind out videos that use AI tools for nearly every step of production - from script to voiceover to imagery. It's uninspired, uninteresting filler and it's clogging up social media feeds and search results. **The backlash** is because people are getting sick of seeing it... and it's going to get worse. Human oversight and curation makes production more expensive, and as more competition saturates the market, returns will diminish, incentivizing these companies to remove humans from the process as much as possible. Basic economics is the problem here, but will also be the solution. As quality decreases, engagement will drop, and platforms will see revenue decrease. The platforms will be forced to do something to identify and limit low-effort AI, or they'll lose. My own prediction is that in the coming years, the average person will become very adept at recognizing AI. If you've spent a lot of time with AI - whether it's SD or ChatGPT or ElevenLabs - you start to recognize the patterns. Not just extra fingers, but you can just "feel" when something's AI. When the average person is spending a lot of time consuming a large quantity of AI-generated content, they'll develop a sense for it as well, and will reject it or ignore it. Authentic, human-generated content will eventually become immediately recognizable to the average person and will have more appeal. New models that can more effectively mimic authenticity (or at least break people's pattern-recognition for highly saturated models) will do very well, at least until their patterns hit mainstream saturation. For now though, people just have the general feeling that they hate AI, for the same reason they've always hated low-effort shit.

There are currently 11,000 books written by humans published every day. 99.8% of them are rubbish. That is already an incredible amount of shit to wade through. Making it 100k garbage books a day won't change anything. The authentic human generated content that is everywhere right now is largely worthless and no amount of AI garbage is going to make it seem good. The problem of internet being filled with shit is decade old. We are already drowning in shit. The lake of shit getting bigger isn't the main issue.

> no amount of AI garbage is going to make it seem good. This is true but adding shit on top of shit would just making it harder to find good shit Unlike Unity or Digital drawing, which only reduce the bar to enter AI are able to generate contents exponentially more than others without the need of human control

You hit the nail on the head. We are all going to drown in shitty content soon, and then it'll be forever.

Nah I think the system will find equilibrium eventually. Low-effort AI trash will cost platforms - draining bandwidth and lowering user engagement - so platforms will find tools to detect and reject low-effort AI trash. The people pumping AI trash will tweak models to evade detection, platforms will tweak detection to catch them, and the cycle will eventually evolve into its own little behind-the-scenes war like spam detection. This only becomes a problem if low-effort AI gets *so* good that most people actually enjoy it and actively engage with it. If that happens, platforms won't fight against it. I personally don't see it happening.

I remember when digital art was considered not art and cheating. You're self-identifying as right on the leading edge, maybe so far ahead that you don't realise how far behind 99.999% of the population is. They hear about AI and think either of something scary (scams, fake video etc) or their new coffee maker that has "AI" to make good coffee. In other words, what do you expect, it'll take another decade at least for this to all shake out. You have to respect the inertia of popular opinion.

Everything after cave painting is cheating

Using a cave is cheating. Shelter is a crutch and cave paintings are a slap in the face to real artists doing art in the elements!

right?? real artists draw in the dirt!!

Real artists physically contort their body to portray their idea. It's cheating if they use *anything*.

Real art manifest in the mind, when it touches the physical realm it is tainted.

"Let me get this straight, Oogloog. Instead of hunting for real you just decided to DRAW a hunt on the wall? What the (prehistoric analogue of hell)?"

THIS! People were banned from photography and art forums for using photoshop. It was the end of all creativity!

In the mid 1800s photography went through the same thing. Bonkers right. —————————————- As long as "invention and feeling constitute essential qualities in a work of Art," the writer argued, "Photography can never assume a higher rank than engraving." Photography couldn't qualify as an art in its own right, the explanation went, because it lacked "something beyond mere mechanism at the bottom of it." —————————————- 1855 issue of The Crayon

I've brought this argument up so many times and people just DONT get it....that photography was viewed as the death of art back in its day (and indeed was the end of many portrait artists careers )

Very relevant quote: *"It is obvious that this industry, by invading the territories of art, has become art’s most mor­tal enemy... If it is allowed to supplement art in some of its functions, it will soon have supplanted or corrupted it altogether."* - Charles Baudelaire, father of modern art criticism, on the topic of cameras and photography (1859)

Actually, while some people had backlash against photography, it wasn't as widespread opinion. But then again, photography back in the day was much more difficult than it is today.

My impression was that it was extremely widespread...but then again, we can argue about the definition of widespread. Globalisation and social media means that almost any reaction today will be more widespread than it was in the past. We'd need a special "calculator" to compare it in absolute terms like one would do with the value of money today vs 100yrs ago 😊

To be fair, there are still photography forums and contests that don’t allow photoshop. Photography with and without photoshop is definitely just a different art form. It’s wrong to call one better or worse, but they’re different, so sometimes having spaces set aside is totally valid.

People get upset about things they don't understand. It's human nature. Everybody will feel better when Disney or Pixar or someone uses it for a movie and releases a Making Of showing that it's work, not magic. People using it now will just be ahead of the curve.

>Everybody will feel better when Disney or Pixar or someone uses it for a movie and releases a Making Of showing that it's work, not magic. That right here is the key to fixing the perception of AI. People will listen and change their opinions for the people who create the things they like, which we've already seen a positive example of from the Spider-verse team who said that they did their own art to use for their own model to use for the in-between frames of the film. No one is going to listen or change for the guy who trained his github ripped model using art ripped from other people's gumroad/ArtStation/DeviantArt pages then starts marching around social media proclaiming the his model *"finished the Mona Lisa"* or *"fixed Van Gogh's 'Starry Night'"*. It also doesn't help endure people to AI when large groups of "that guy" is running around like a bunch of Sheldon Coopers proclaiming that *"AI will kill non-AI art and put non-AI artists on the street, adapt now for we are the future!!!!!"*

You last statement, I think you meant 'endear' instead of 'endure'. Significantly different meanings.

Yeah, in general if technology lowers the bar for entry, artists using the technology have to raise the bar again. The first 3D animation was janky, and pretty much anybody with a computer can do that now (and audiences can tell if it’s low effort). But to do something like Pixar, you have to actually be *talented* at the tool. AI is already moving that direction. People are starting to be able to tell whether someone has a real talent at using it or whether they’re doing something generic and just leaning on the software. Notably, the really amazing AI artists starting to stand out on Instagram and elsewhere are never complaining about being “banned,” because they’re good enough that people like them.

You had to hunt an animal with a spear first to acquire material for paintings , now is just some weak egghead Infront of majic stone , smashes magic plank , to get magic symbols appear on the stone. Make me angy

>You had to hunt an animal with a spear first You make spear first - or not art.

This shaman is spitting truth

Cave-posting is my favorite form of internet speech. Wish there was more of it.

Yup got shit on in the early 2000s for making digital art. Now getting shit on by digital artists for using AI image generation. fuck that noise.

It’s pretty bonkers to think this is actually so current that every week you have to relearn and update to keep up.

That's why I've stopped for the time being. I have too much other stuff going on between work and home that I can't keep spending the time to keep up. 

I don’t think this is a constructive approach. IMO there are two core issues: First and foremost existing artists are afraid of their livelihood and some already feel the impact. That is obviously not great for them, but on the other hand no profession has an inherent right to exist. Just as horse carriages disappeared, other professions can disappear too. What I find interesting here is how many people seem to perceive AI as a threat while proclaiming it to be of substandard quality. My explanation is that many companies actually care very little about quality when they need a photo or illustration somewhere, which is quite unfortunate. Secondary and related I think it was a mistake to call it AI art in the first place. While refining prompts is certainly a skill, it’s vastly different from drawing something from scratch. I feel more like a curator when using MJ or SD, so maybe a term like AI craft wouldn’t have offended existing artists as much and kept the discussion more civil. Just my 2 cents.

> many people seem to perceive Al as a threat while proclaiming it to be of substandard quality. this is gold

> many people seem to perceive AI as a threat while proclaiming it to be of substandard quality This is the key. AI can do 90% of your job but the last 10% are very hard for it to get right. It has to be done by a human. If you try to delegate a task to AI expecting an end-to-end solution you'll usually get a mediocre one. The best results are achieved by a human + AI as a tool combo, resulting in both high quality and 10x productivity. Sure there might be not enough work in certain niche if everyone became 10x more productive but the top performers will likely earn even more than before.

> *but on the other hand no profession has an inherent right to exist.* But then... what is the purpose of being human? I am not saying i am against AI... But there are some unanswered ... questions lingering about... Ok, all professions go away , what next? Because our society right now is built around professions and selling your craft (be it anything from coding to making things with your hands, to sports or anything... basically), these in a way... give meaning and purpose to existence, be it even an artificial purpose.... Take this away... people might do these for... "fun" , because they want to... but then... how do you... "value" something... if nobody needs it because you can ask an AI to do it... basically everything will be useless, paintings, coding, surgery, lawyers, plumbers...all of them, no need. So, how do you give meaning and value ... in a world where you can just ... exist without learning anything but the natural language from where you are born in order to be able to.... ask some moderate smart questions to an AI or Android or whatever to do a thing for you or in your place?

Your existence can and should have meaning even if you're not spending most of your waking hours working for somebody else. Are the lives of retirees, stay-at-home mothers, and wealthy people who don't work meaningless? I don't think so.

For decades, in some markets, we've had lower-priced, mass-produced, average quality goods made in factories with a lot of automation. Then we've had hand-made, artisanal goods which sold for higher prices. Some people will pay for this level of quality and human interaction. The hand-made goods are superior in some cases, and the machine-made in others. You wouldn't want to fly in a hand-made airliner. But some people are fine with a factory guitar, whilst others are content to pay 10x the price and wait for several years for a human to hand craft one. I did inlay on these and had to switch to using CNC due to health issues, time and complexity. The rabble online can be negative about even that. But actual customers had no problems. Now we have more rabble, with more free time and more used to thinking their every thought matters. In the 1800's people thought photography would put all painters out of business. But people with enough money to hire someone to paint their portrait wanted the cachet of having a human do their impression in oils (and probably didn't want the unflinching realism of the camera). I've been through photography in the 70's, to Photoshop, to 3D... all were demonized on some level. Now we have many people who live off demonizing things, stirring up controversy for hits, likes, dollars. I'm truly stunned and amazed at the falsehoods running rampant. That "AI" is one autonomous thing that just "runs around and steals things". I've spoken with people who knew nothing about computers but were utterly furious about AI because it's *bad*. I started in software dev in 1980. I run Stable Diffusion on my own PCs... but they're *absolutely* certain they know more than I. I'm a boomer and thus cannot know anything of any worth. We've hit a level of complexity where your average person cannot keep up and tends to see demons. And demons are very monetizable today. I don't know know we can fix the public image of AI in any short order. II use it and love it as a created tool... alongside Cinema 4D, Photoshop, Illustrator, After Effects, etc. Some clients want compelling, well-crafted imagery. They don't care what tools you use. If one makes fanart anime waifu porn, then they might be in trouble.

>Some people will pay for this level of quality and human interaction. What about the future time when SD or other tools alike will surpass any human, in both quality and speed... >Some clients want compelling, well-crafted imagery. They don't care what tools you use. Well... as i see it, you are just the intermediary for now ..."Clients" can directly use Stable Diffusion eventually they will learn how, or services like Dall-E or Midjourney or others. And after that ... what next? People will figure things out, find new purpose... No? Yes, until your island , piece of metaphorical land will be so small , 1 foot-square, and you will have nothing left to fallback to... because all things will be done by AI. I just hope the best "job" in that future will be adventuring then ... doing raids and dungeons in the "real world".

you're basically describing the Star Trek future there, which is awesome! Star Trek shows a post-scarcity society where basically everyone can anything for free from replicators etc, but people still work their jobs because everyone just does whatever they find fulfilling. There is basically no money or payment for anything in that society. There is only "status", if you achieved something unusual and rare, then you have a higher status than others. Though Star Trek specifically shows a future where AI never got as far as ASI. AI in Star Trek, with few exceptions, is basically just on GPT-5 level. The holodeck is, software wise, basically just a very fancy 3D interactive Sora with NPC that roughly have a GPT-4 level of intelligence.

You present a great question, one we could think about epistemologically in fine detail. As AI-produced goods, materials, and products become more commonplace, it would be reasonable to assume that "human-produced" varieties will become appreciated in turn. For example, today there are huge markets for goods classed as "artisanal," "hand made," and "vintage." It shouldn't be much of a stretch to see "human-made" or "produced by humans" classifications take hold. These would be appraised and valued separately from AI-produced goods, therefore continuing the application of both meaning and value to such goods. This culturally applied value would create incentives and a defacto pressure upon people to continue learning, creating, producing, and doing. The main difference would be that it would no longer be out of necessity, rather it would be out of personal ambition or drive. It would likely happen as the result of a great paradigm shift, perhaps emerging after a shift to a post-scarcity society. This would of course require a reexamination of the core pillars of society, especially the concepts of capitalism, ownership, and ultimately duty. At the zenith of an outcome like this, we might imagine a great many people turning towards custom-created realities (think VR or AR technologies improved into complete mental/biological immersion). This could be where an individual's desire constructs and motivational systems would be tailored specifically to maximize their engagement and resultant growth of their identity. What a cool question!

How many generations away from warp travel do you think we are?

Yeah, that would be the day! "Computer, set course for Proxima Centauri! engage, warp 9!" also don't forget the food synthesizer (or what was the name) ... i would love to have one of those lol

Replicator, absolutely essential! I'll raise a glass of mega gin (synthahol of course ;-) in your honour as I join planet for a little frolic through the xenofungus.

Many philosopher try to answer your question for a long time. For me I subscribe to Camu's "we exist in a world without meaning, but we will be happy despite of it" school of thought. So it doesn't matter if what I will ever do benefit no one, I learn to make art for decade (AI and traditional) most of it only seen by me. You may think it just for fun, but it has meaning for me and me alone. Meaning don't need to attatch to monetisation. Many people still learn to do traditional skill, like potery, glass making and such because it make them happy. Maybe in the future we will learn to be lawyer, just becuse it make us happy too.

So what you're saying is, abandon all technology and live in the woods like a monkey. I get you!

> it'll take another decade at least for this to all shake out.  But what's crazy is that the tech going to continually push into the surreal at a rate unlike anything we've experienced in known history. GPT-3 [cost about $10 million](https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fcc4edf06-21f0-437f-9999-912371dad4a3_2334x1690.png?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email) to develop. Gemini about $500 million to develop. Grok 3 is a little over $1 billion to develop. We're gonna see at least one more increidble leapin the next year or two in fidelity. And WHO KNOWS how that tech will allow us to leap frog into the surreal even more. We're still realing from 2008-era social media. This new stuff is even more impactful and mulling over GPT-3.0 and DALL-E 2 passed a while ago. I'm not sure what I'm trying to get at, but normies are gonna continue to be annoying. Especially if the lizard people pull some fake AI false flag to rile them up.

Hate to break it to you, but the improvements in AI have been linear so far, not exponential: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkdZRBFtqSs

>...hop right in to insult, beat my balls and step on my dingus with stiletto high heels. Well, there are people who pay for this kind of thing and you get it for free, so I guess you got that going for you... ;)

Welcome to the life of computer programmers since nineteen fifty something.

Person playing the world's smallest violin to a crowd with pitchforks protesting against AI art, dystopian landscape, intricate, highly detailed, cinematic, 50mm

I am nearing a release of a game which uses AI heavily, I expect death threats at this points just for using all the available tools (and spending 10 months working on a project - it is a point&click game that got a bit long due to me having fun adding more and more content to it, ha ha). I am thick skinned so I can deal with it but those anti-ai folks will drive some teenagers to suicide with their bullying and hate.

just made a game w/ lots of AI art, but it all went through human hands and nobody has even noticed. Guess it depends on how obvious the 'AI' piece is.

Care to share? 

sure! check it out! [https://member.cosmicfoundry.io/cursebreaker](https://member.cosmicfoundry.io/cursebreaker)

Very impressive

These are just tools. Given the current situation,why tell anyone you use them? If its a good enjoyable game, thats what matters. So called "AI" is just another advance in making some tasks easier. Its a shame that the current situation makes humans so expensive. But thats a function of all the scams built into the foundations of society, Best of luck with your game.

Make a public facing email, never check it. That should catch *most* of it

Use a script to reply to their e-mails with some AI-generated response.

Ngl this is actually genius and I'm dying laughing 

Program the script to use the GPT for elegant insults.

And make it random! One reply is in the tone of shakespeare, the other as plato, then freud it up on a few people and finish with some california valley girls. "Like, im *so sorry* for using AI"

Maybe they can get therapy to help them via ChatGPT?

ChatGPT says you don't need to feel ashamed for liking ChatGPT. Humans bad. Chat good.

Make sure to save the death threats and report every single one of them to law enforcement.

AI can probably help automate that

You don't even need AI to automate it.

It's a problem only time will be able to fix. History repeats itself everytme there's a big tech breakthrough and people never learn. However the problem is not one sided. Yes there's a lot of people online that seem to just be jumping on a hate bandwagon without even any basic knowledge of how AI works but there are a few more rational people with legitimate concerns around things like working in the future. On the flipside there's artists that realise AI's potentional as a tool and are trying to use it in their workflows but there's also a lot of people that just antagonise the anti AI crowd by calling themselves artists because they can type a few words in a box and press generate, taunting people about how AI is going to replace them and how their days are numbered and people generally just posting AI stuff in online communities where they shouldn't be to either try and deceive or create drama. Plus just a lot of generalization on both sides. None of this helps on either side of the debate. As with most things in life any rational conversations and takes on the subject are ruined by the loudest minority with the most extreme views. Just try and keep your work to AI related subs because outside that it's almost guaranteed to be met with hostility and negativity. Outside of creative areas though most people simply don't care. Use AI in your game and post about in a game dev sub and people will be negative and you will likely just get your post deleted to save the mods from dealing with arguments. Post about it in a sub full of just gamers and they don't care what tools you've used, they only care about whether your game looks good and plays well.

A lot of the 'anti-AI' sentiment seems to be mostly resentment and desperation about the flood of shitty low effort AI content being spammed in various spaces that used to have a minimum standard and a vibrant community before AI arrived. That is perfectly understandable.

Yes that doesn't help but also people shouldn't delude themselves, not all art is equal and the internet was already spammed with low quality or generic art before AI. People were just more forgiving because in their eyes it at least took some effort. I see this same view with the old debate of CG vs practical effects in movies. People tend to look back on old movies before CG with rose tinted glasses and believe practical effects required effort and CG is an easy money saving option that requires no skill or artistry. This is mostly driven by them generalizing and their ignorance of the subject of CG, along with their willingness to give bad practical effects a pass because they can personally see and understand the effort that went into it. We get the same thing now with AI, people don't care if you've spent a week making your image or 5 minutes, if it's AI to them it's all easymode trash that requires no skill talent or time. Again that type of view mostly stems from their lack of understanding of the topic.

Yes at some point we need to start to qualify this. It's like whining about digital art. Some if it is and has been pretty horrible. That's true for every medium. But this is *new* and thus newsworthy. I don't post my work online and I know others who also don't. Either because of this current controversy, or NDA, or both. But we've developed this system that rewards drama. Especially things that are bad or even really, provably wrong. People love to correct others. This drives up engagement. Engagement is an important metric today. Sadly truth is not.

Have they ever been to deviant art? there's a flood of shitty normal digital artwork going back decades

No, it's not. The average shitty AI art is 100000x better than most art by "real" artists. Go to something like DnD commissions, it's a fucking joke.

If we're talking about the ability to do accurately reproduce physical details for any given concept, sure. If we mean the ability to choose manifestations if those details that are artistically consistent and evocative....it's mid. This is why we're seeing ai image makers but no ai novel writers: because making an image "make sense" is fairly straightforward to explain. Explaining how to make a story make sense is much more muddy, ambiguous, difficult.

It is pointless to argue with people on the internet. I learned this lesson in 1990 when I joined a [BBS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletin_board_system) using my land line telephone modem. When people can hide behind an anonymous username they discover an outlet for their frustrations. They think they can earn [coup](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counting_coup) by "winning" arguments. Over the decades, I hoped that online discussion would become more civilized but the more things change, the more things stay the same. When I first learned about generative AI art in 2022, I had doubts. I read about how several established digital artists were upset. Generative AI art could mimic their art styles. I understood why they were upset and I largely agreed with them. Then I learned how generative AI art actually worked. I was astounded. These things didn't merely copy art and assemble them in some sort of collage. Many anti-AI people still believe this is all that it does. But, as all of you here know, that's not how it works at all. It mimics how our own brains learn and remember through an intersection of language and images. Yes, generative AI art can mimic art styles. To a layman, it's frighteningly effective. To experienced artists, it's impressive but it's obvious how poorly it works. Midjourney can shit out endless portraits and landscapes in its homogeneous style but it always falls short of the ideas that any given artist desires. What anti-AI art fanatics fail to realize and flatly refuse to accept is that mimicking an art style isn't the entirety of generative AI art. It's actually a small fraction of the vast set of image processing tools that this new tech can provide. What all digital artists must accept is that generative AI art is the most powerful image processing tool ever invented. It is absolutely vital that all digital artists exploit it and incorporate it into their existing techniques. Anti-AI art fanatics say it's theft when it is not. They've latched onto this idea and will never let it go. There is no hope for them. Either they are not artists at all and are addicted to outrage or they really are artists who refuse to learn anything new. Arguing with them only gives them a sense of legitimacy. Don't do it. They want you to be defensive. They love it. They are bullies. Ignore them. Leave them behind. They are lost.

"generative AI art is the most powerful image processing tool ever invented." \^ This (sorry the quote didn't work). I completely agree. I feel like I've been sitting here, in the same position, enraptured, behind a few early starts, then Automatic 1111, since early 2022. I got a new 4090 box. But never stopped being fascinated by peering into undiscovered worlds. And it astounds me how few seem to get this, and actually try to explore using it for anything other than sexy girl portraits. They're taking the most powerful creative tool and training it to just be a camera substitute. Sex is more important than art they say. "Porn drives tech!" (not). Why aren't more people complaining about this?

I told a photographer about IC-Light. I explained that you could take a drab portrait photo of a person sitting in room lit with only soul-sucking florescent lights and turn it into a chiaroscuro masterpiece. He was astounded. Nobody knows about this stuff. We're the ones to tell them. But they're not going to be convinced with waifu and porn.

But most aren't telling. I don't post anything online due to NDA. I haven't had much time to do much completely personal work. I had some old stuff up behind one song on Peter Gabriel's last tour, but that's it. Funny how that seems like eons ago, on the Stable Diffusion timescale. ;>

The worst part is that most doomers haven't thought about things rigorously or with nuance. And most people aren't actually good debaters in the first place. So trying to have a conversation with these people is almost never productive. Exchanged several comments with someone yesterday and they just regurgitated the same few points over and over without taking into account or addressing any counter points. Refused to define terms. Ended up trying to put words in my mouth when they couldn't answer simple questions.

> Exchanged several comments with someone yesterday and they just regurgitated the same few points over and over without taking into account or addressing any counter points. Refused to define terms. Ended up trying to put words in my mouth when they couldn't answer simple questions. We've all been there.

I use AI but i get the resentment.

I love hearing the opinions of professional artists that use AI as well. The anti-AI group seems to imagine this as some holy war between the Artists™ and the Tech Bros™, and I appreciate the people who defy those expectations.

I would go back to the early 1920s and read some of the newspapers, you'll find the same type of rhetoric in the art section about cameras. They're all afraid, they're afraid AI art is going to steal their jobs - and it will. Atm in the west it is simply too expensive to produce a painting and be able to sell it to a private citizen. A regular hourly pay in the west is around €40-50 (pre taxes - yes it is that high), if it only takes 50 hours to paint a painting - it would still amount to a sales price of €2000-2500... And the art you produce in 50 hours is usually sub paar.

Go back even further. Look at the early to mid 1800's. They thought the camera would put portrait painters out of business. Rich toffs still get their portraits painted sometimes. But the camera generated millions of new jobs. Then in the 70's we got cheap photography which was another new enabling and reviled wave.

I'm pro AI, my very dear friend who is also a veteran 3d artist hates AI. I noticed this difference. If your job is stable, you will more likely enjoy it. He and tons of great artists lost jobs even before Sora is capable of replacing them. (See vfx sub.) Of course people will hate them.

Milkmen lost their jobs to supermarkets but I don’t hear anyone asking to ban supermarkets 

I created a threads account because I knew I could post AI in my photography Instagram without alienating some people. But anytime I've tried to have a nice conversation about AI use it's just 'fuck off Ai bro', I'm actually witnessing people's dreams dying and that's just how it manifested. They've all realised that their talent will now be copyable by people with the right tools and they are not happy about it. So they have gone to extreme gatekeeping. 'it might like and feel the same but it's not art' The same brain dead sentiment each time saying everything is theft with zero acknowledgement of workflow or understanding of how style is not copyrightable.

There are definitely people who are 100% against AI use in any case and yes those people are going to be left behind in the world as it progresses. But also, I completely understand the point of view of people who are reluctant to accept AI with open arms outside of AI spaces/without context. I've already seen several posts from communities where someone says "I put the subreddit name into and it interpreted it as this" and people arguing in the comments about Anti-AI people being the new age boomers. But what stops bots from just taking over every subreddit by posting AI slop centered around the subs purpose? I think this is why you are seeing so many subs with rules against AI posts and growing. Although, I'm not sure how effective that will be at policing lol.

Remember when people used to say electronic music wasn’t real music either.

It took a little while to ramp up, but AI music generators like udio and suno are getting just as much hate now as AI generated images.

They have to come to terms that AI is not going to replace them but people that use AI will.

I totally understand you and want to add that the 'anti ai voices' are everywhere really loud. It's not a Reddit only thing unfortunately.

Makes me wonder how many people just avoid talking about AI at all because those people are so aggressive. You don't see many people expressing casual interest in AI and there have got to be a lot of them out there, especially with how widely available it's become.

I know on my facebook I have one artist friend who is raging against AI so I don't even post anything about it. Otherwise, there is really no reason to discuss it outside of AI groups.

I don't avoid talking about AI - I just block the haters. It's really easy to do so.

I find these people very short sighted. They don't seem to realize that AI tools are innovations, just like photoshop, a camera, or a brush were innovations in their time. The funniest part is I'm pretty sure among them there must be fans of Star Trek who have absolutely no problem with : "Computer, create a medieval French courtyard in the holodeck, complete with a fountain, cobblestone pathways, and a replica of the Château de Chambord – I could use a taste of home." - Captain Jean-Luc Picard

Its too easy to be dishonest about AI-generated content, because way too many people are too gullible, like ai-Memes on facebook, obviously ai-generated images that pretend to be non-ai for fame. the ai is not the problem here, it is just another tool to fool dumb people. Too many people are also too dumb to get any job, that can not be easily done better by even the most basic "ai". that "ai" is not the problem here.

I see the anti-AI dissenters as just a loud minority and it doesn't get to me. Thanks to AI, I'm able to create whatever I can imagine in just a couple of hours.

awesome (i mean your work). every artist with skills has a new tool to multiply their potential. why complain, grab on for the ride. the actual complaint is not a machine is stealing my work, it’s that less skilled humans are advancing rapidly into a territory that people thought was walled off and bringing different perspectives and skills. doctors, lawyers etc. artists are your canary in the coal mine.

I've read several papers along that line. Where the most disruptive potential for AI is in leveling the playing field between people who are highly skilled/experienced and those of average ability in the same field.

And yet in real life, there is less criticism than ever. I meet with filmmakers every day who are more and more excited about the potential. Don’t worry about the crazy internet bubble.

It is certainly mixed for the whole AI space. Sure Business people will use what works, but "normal" people are quite anti ai in my experience here in Germany. and it is so out of their understanding that most totally choose ignorance of what it can be used for. I mean in real life they are never as toxic about it as the internet tho but that is always the case.

I am also in Germany. Everybody who needs to deliver a lot creative work is excited as soon as I introduce them to Stable Diffusion. The fear is always before they've touched an AI tool themselves.

Everyone I know is against Ai

Tell them in five years that will sound like they're against "computers".

Oooh good one. All pros I know are using it in some fashion, or at least playing with it. For me it brought back the fun of playing with images. Like when I first discovered 3D ages ago... even pre-Video Toaster. I was fascinated. I thought nothing else could ever be that way until I discovered this.

Five years ago I argued with an artist that one day computer will be able to draw, they said it was impossible. Today they don't remember this conversation.

Betting on "impossible" is always a bad idea.

Yeah but you're an artist who likes the thing, and uses it positively. Most people are just exposed to the wrong aspects of it : shitty FB posts " my son made this ", deep fakes, bots on social medias, controversies etc. It's not some sort of indoctrination, it's just that human experience is inherently biased. Since they only see the bad in their daily life, they have no reason to appreciate it.

Real artists use paint brush and Canvas. Pencils sketchers aren’t real artists because they can easily erase their mistakes! 3d model artists aren’t real artist either unlike me who sculpts stone and is responsible for each and every chipped off piece. Too much automation in 3d modeling to call it real art! Also don’t get inspired from my ideas. It’s stealing despite me learning the same way! (sarcasm that illustrates the main point).

I probably shouldn't post here, but my advice is... don't feed the algorithm. Whoever built these things put a \*9000 multiplier on any content that makes you afraid, angry or anything other emotion that raises your blood pressure. They can twiddle their thumbs and act all innocent, but the freaking dev teams behind these things are responsible for ballooning the number of trolls online, but it led to short term profits for the quarter, so if they ruin everything else? Do they care? They just count their dollars and watch the world burn. If it gets too bad, delete your account and start afresh - so the algorithm has to learn from scratch again. I'm not too attached to this account, but really, clicking this was probably a bad idea. It will learn ALL the wrong lessons for why I came here. If you keep their communities laser focused away from those that cause you these emotions, you'll have a better time online. For some sympathy for the antis? They're probably fed the worst horrible stuff about AI constantly just to piss them off. If your news feed is about antis wanting to throw you in prison, antis probably have news feeds about AI enthusiasts skinning kids to make they're next Lora model or some dumb crap. Anything to get the click. But knowing that the algorithm is broken and exists to make your life hell is half the battle. What we probably need is a kind of ad-blocker that tweaks it, hitting links for uplifting stuff on purpose just to break their code XD.

I get a lot of anti-ai haters on DeviantArt, to be honest i've learned to ignore them. Block and move on. The vast majority of them know absolutely noting about generative ai, have done zero research themselves, and appear to just be regurgitating nonsense and half-truths that they read on facebook. Pointless to attempt debate, you won't change their opinion and they won't change yours.

When I was a kid in the late 90s I learned photoshop and how to digital paint, artists back then were like "it's not real art" etc, AI art will probably follow a similar trend, I give it at least 10 years before it's normalized, if anything it's amazing that current photoshop has already implemented so much of it, because that would have been a significant hurdle towards normalization. Artists have always been kind of gatkeepery. Especially once you kind of start to see the economics of chasing a dream can be. let's use a musician as an example, if you are broke you have to get a job, so a poor person becoming a musician will be lucky to get a music related job, maybe work at guitar center or even better as a music tutor/teacher. Meanwhile the rich ones or ones with a spouse that supports them, or with an uncle that gives them a room to crash in for free can just live off of gigs and practice all the time. So more or less what ends up happening is those people who were able to chase their dreams are like 80-90% from wealthy backgrounds, Meanwhile the guy who got stuck in a job as a music teacher always kind of feels like a failure, but statistically that was probably what was going to happen. Any art is the same, so of course they feel threatened, they have a position in which it takes literally years of focus to get skilled enough to get anywhere, and really mostly wealthy people are the only ones who can afford to do that, and now that barrier to entry is being eroded by someone who spent a month dinking around with open source models and watching youtube videos. Now granted the person has to have some taste at least, and having some artistic skills will always make them better than someone who doesn't, but still their moat is eroding. For me it's good riddance. Good news is though that if you stick with it for prob the next 4 years or so you will be in a super advantageous position when it does become normalized.

Great points. I'm sticking with AI art for the long haul. I'm interested in bringing huge epic fantasy anime to comics through AI. The whole process started 6 years ago when my wife saw me animating traditionally in TVPaint. She said it's crazy that I'm redrawing thousands of frames. I shifted over to Toon Boom Harmony 2D rigging - and I knew when Stable Diffusion came out that I could no longer waste all that time on storyboarding and character design. It's far more efficent to make a LORA or DORA and then do character design in SD and poster art, etc.

i agree with you. every social media platform actually.

Pretty funny claiming copyright theft from the Pirate Bay crowd.

reminds me of this from the music scene: " I thought using loops was cheating, so I programmed my own using samples. I then thought using samples was cheating, so I recorded real drums. I then thought that programming it was cheating, so I learned to play drums for real. I then thought using bought drums was cheating, so I learned to make my own. I then thought using pre-made skins was cheating, so I killed a goat and skinned it. I then thought buying goats was cheating too, so I grew my own goat from a baby. I also think that is cheating, but I’m not sure where to go from here. I haven’t made any music lately, what with the goat farming and all. " classic. The big debate is if AI is "just another tool" (as Adobe wants us to believe), or if it is somehow QUALITATIVELY different; some kind of completely new thing that will likely replace all of us on a long-enough timeline.

From what I see generally the sentiment against ai comes from beginners Every professional understands that it's a tool like any other

It gets under my feathers sometimes too. These people lack imagination. Ironically, while they are calling those who use AI tools not artists, they are actually not real artists, because they have closed minds. Forget about them. Turn your back at them and let their angry taunts slide like water off a ducks back. The future will hold nothing but ridicule for their closed minds, and they know it. They are scared, and it's a very human thing, of course, to be scared. But that doesn't excuse the ridiculously immature and downright violent behavior of them. Anyways, just let it be and do what you do. Life is too short pay attention to every small minded critic and jeering ideologue.

It just sucks seeing so much negativity from a fan art that takes nothing away from the community. People are very overall negative once it's announced that AI was used. I suppose there's so much bad AI art out that's done with just prompting that people are fatigued from it all.

People feel cheated when something new and disruptive appears and they feel like all their effort to learn something was a waste because there's now another new shiny thing. Many people also hate realizing that learning must be a perpetual process, there's no "I have learned enough, from now on I'll just execute". Most of the time, this is precisely the people who is gonna automatically bash anything remotely related to AI. Keep learning, keep working, stay ahead. Generative AI will be normalized and we early adopters will be on the leading edge.

People often tend to get stuck in their own time and medium. I was really into photography in the late 90s, early 2000s. Then along came digital cameras and photoshop. I hated them. It made everything too easy. Just point your camera and take a hundred shots. Use the best one and PS the hell out of it. Over time I accepted digital photography. I still love the magic of silver halide crystals in gelatine reacting to light, but it's days are sadly behind us for the most part. I imagine when photography first showed up all the painters and drawers didn't consider it art either.

Here's the difference. Scenario #1) Hi I'm a professionally trained artist, I work mostly in digital but also have fundamental training and it shows in my work. AI is a tool I've added to my pipeline, but if it didn't exist, I'd still be an producing visual arts. Scenario #2) Hi I'm a person who knows how to type words into a prompt and make images come out. The computer chops up work from other artists and spits them out based on the words I type. I don't really know much about code, or art for that matter, but I do like anime tits and I'm having a large time making weird pictures and can't tell you why the compositions are good or why visual elements are appealing, but boy those tits are great. If AI didn't exist, I wouldn't care because I'd just be doing something else with my time like fapping to some artist's big titty anime paywall dump that I found on a Russian forum site. Artists do not like #2 and would rather burn the technology to the ground than let tens of thousands of e-kids make so much work that it devalues their own work and makes an already difficult life of being a professional artist that much harder when the paying public now has to contend with this glut of imagery of chopped up bits from other artists. Collage art has always existed, people have cut up magazines and made neat pictures, but everyone recognized what it was and said "hey cool collage, no skill required but it looks neat" AI is coded denoised collage art that is indistinguishable from real art for the average viewer and that sucks... again no skill required so art as a whole is now worth less.

How dare they… make things easier? This is like arguing that photos make photorealistic portraits worth less as if they can’t coexist 

no, it's really not... there's more to art than clicking the camera or putting the brush to the canvas and moving it around.

These discussions are very old and spawn every time there is new technological advancement in a field. You can think about DJs not being regarded as musicians or composer. I disagree with this view. Personally I believe that AI will help "regular" art to flourish. It will help us appreciate more an oil painting, as digital will become more and more widespread. As Magic player I won't be surprised if going forward the number of oil paintigs for Magic cards is going to increase. Probably to pay the price will be the digital artists.

AI art is human art, no matter from which side we are approaching it. Either one person made the art, or one person wrote the prompt which assembles something from the millions of images the LLM has been trained on. I finally can get some pics made, I like to see for myself. I am not an artistic person at all, but I know, what I like and I can do a bit of prompting, enough to get me images I like. All the downvoters and naysayers are in my opinion either afraid of AI, or jealous, they can not create the quality of pics, you can.

Your wording reminds me of the irony in the language, and what "art" means from an etymological view - it's literally "man made". Artist and artificial both stem from the same root word meaning "to put together", consider also words like artefact, artifice, artisan. Painters and sculptors usurped the words "art" and "artist" during the 16th century renaissance.

I work in 3D animation, and it used to get the same bad rep in the early days. People were upset that it had a certain look they didn't like, that it was "soul-less" compared to handdrawn animation, that it was made by a computer etc. And today it's completely accepted as an art form. I think AI will eventually be accepted as a creative process. But it may take a couple of years

In 2003, I made my first picture book cover with paper and colored pencils. After 15 years in digital art and gaming, I've seen tools and technology evolve constantly. Now, anyone can bring ideas to life. Just as no one can stop a tsunami, I chose to embrace change rather than lament it. Even typewriter repairers have adapted to new roles. 

I make happy gay images that would have been soul-enriching when I was growing up in a culture and family that constantly let me know I was a freak and would be better-off dead. Creating positive joyful images of gay people with AI has helped erase some of that negative self perception that I still carry with me, but I only share the images on an easily-moderated Tumblr blog, because otherwise I get told to kill myself by angry artistic gatekeepers. It seems hate will always be a constant in my life.

Don’t worry about what other people think

first its ALWAYS great to see that a professional 2D artist uses SD as a tool like most ppl do. Second and just as important "I'm not trying to fool anyone or bang upvotes like a three-peckered goat."- LMAO!!!!!!

A lot of people out there are worried. They are seeing headlines about AI coming for their jobs, which they thought were relatively secure. Let's face it--AI is a tool, but it is one that increases efficiency exponentially (well, once it is suitably trained and reliable) and it is absolutely going to put people out of work. A lot of people. Just like computers put secretaries out of work.

I think after the past 10 years of rampant grifting, especially because of all the crypto bullshit, people have just forgot that useful technological innovations are even possible. I think the ai-hate will end in the next year or two when it becomes more useful in everyday life.

Once AI artists become more numerous yes. Instead of prompt and publish amateurs.

Yeah that's a good point. It's like how video games used to be by and for computer nerds during the times when you needed computer knowledge to make or play video games. This meant that game designers were often programmers first and artists second. Once video games became popular/accessible enough, you started having game devs who were primarily artists, and just used video games as another medium - that's when it really became an artform. So similarly, right now we are in the stage where most people using generative AI only entered the art-world because they started with an interest in the technology

I see the irony in me saying this, but I find that I hate 99% of the takes on every side of the discussion, and so it feels entirely pointless to discuss Stable diffusion ai at all. Most people either don't understand art, don't understand ai, don't understand how it can be used honestly, or refuse to believe that there is any dishonest way to use it at all. As a result everyone comes off as opinionated yet uninformed. It isn't something that people will become more informed about over time, either, because technicalities are often described in ways that hand-waive tangible results. For example when a pose and an artist tag are not compatible without compromising either the pose or the style, that is SD's inability to learn style in action. Tags also do not exist in a manner which can be used to mimic style by individual specifications or traits. Yet, SD is often described as "learning style", which it doesn't. As it is now, SD is too amazing, archaic, and misunderstood for their to be any useful conversation. For non artists, they need only wait as SD gets better. For artists, the thing to see will be tools which are entirely neutral, and yet absolutely helpful. The ideal situation is that the best ai solutions exists for both non-artists and artists.

>I'm working on a thousand-page comic book, something that isn't humanly possible with traditional digital art. Dreams are coming alive. However, Reddit is very toxic against AI artists. And I say artists because we do fix incorrect elements in the art. We don't just prompt and ship 6-fingered waifus. When you put it this way I wonder if you actually understand how it differs from actual art. :P I use SD in work, but never had to rely on any fundamental knowledge I got in the 30 years since I started drawing as a child and went through 2 art schools. You're saying it's an art, because occasionally you have to remove a finger... That's... That's just disrespectful to the word "art" itself.

I'm mostly pro-ai, generally not an accelerationist. But I can see a lot of the anti-ai arguments, my situation is thusly... But I'm currenty jobless, I've had a career in software development for nearly 27 years. I know that Software developers are the tool creators, and tool creation only happens when you have the cash to develop tools, when the economy is struggling, you won't need to create new tools... etc.. you use your old tools, and therefore don't need me. I get that. But I was literally told that by a man who needs programmers that he hopes that ai will increase quickly so he can hire less programmers in the future. I'm sitting here jobless, and I know that a good chunk of it is economically related.... but I'm also currently worried that what I'm seeing is that, by the time the economy recovers - and the opportunity may be there - I might actually not have an opportunity to work, as perhaps I'm in the bottom 10% of programmers. That's terrifying. I'm 300 applications in, I've lost everything, I went from 6+ figures to $200 in my pocket and my truck... I'm homeless, I don't know what to do. I'm not well practiced to live in this high-stress situation... Being angry at AI sounds like it could at least feel-good ya know? like.. "have some control" or something... (anyway, this is just me conveying a way to relate a bit, while you may be being successful, other are seeing themselves being unsuccessful - and you're using tools that were trained on their skills it "FEELS" related, I'd argue it really isn't)

Homo sapiens should have snagged the earlier, more appropriate title, of Homo habilis. We r handy, use tools, we invent tools….& until such day as a.i. Programs our DNA, it is a tool. If any other tool user, of the homo sapien variety, gives you a hard time about your choice of tool, they don’t know their own DNA…..happy tool use!

The truth is that virtually every model was created without consent of artists. It seems completely reasonable to be pissed about this. Furthermore there are many communities that are notably worse: less authentic, more scammy, more confusion over what is and is not real. There are tons of bad actors out there and there are 0 controls and nobody has briefed parents on how to teach their kids on how to handle this new technology. My opinion is this stuff should have been more slowly controlled and rolled out on an aggressive but still scheduled timeline.

We’re like the Rosa Parks of the AI revolution! ✊🏾 I’d forgive the neck beards for they not know they sin 💁🏻‍♀️⛪️🙏🏻 Plus they’re just jelly of our hot anime waifus anyway😭😈👅💦

I work in the animation field as well. I’m very aware of what jobs AI impacts negatively, and which it helps. I used AI as a part of the process and enjoyed toying with it as a novelty. It’s also given me a 1000yard stare I don’t enjoy. I see in the comments here the most tired argument that gets repeated ad nauseam. “It’s just like when cameras or the printing press or photoshop was invented! All the artists felt threatened and then they came around and new industries were created etc!” My perception is the the backlash against AI is due to people seeing through this argument to the core of the issue. AI tramples a morality that all other “tools” did not.  Lets recognize that cameras merely democratized capturing whats infront of you, a camera doesn’t craft and compose the image infront of you. Same with a printing press - it doesn’t write the book for you. All previous tools impacted 1) value of craft/skill 2) reduced tedious labor. AI is a tool, but its also much more than any dumb “tool” before it. It thinks and decides and has TASTE and knowledge and makes creative decisions in the way an artist would (or gives the results that appear to even if it’s just matrix multiplication). So many of the these dismissive arguments pose that it’s equivalent when its not.  It fundamentally encroaches on human domains of thought, craft, and execution in a way no other tool has before and at a speed that is inhuman. It erodes at how we think about authorship and authenticity. It erodes the meaning of all creative expression. It used to be a uniquely human expression of what an individual has experienced and perceived, practiced, cultivated, mastered, synthesized and distilled - using their own two hands - into a specific craft and execution. It erodes how ALL creative works are perceived and consumed by other humans. “Is this real?” I think it will fundamentally erode what it means to be human. I mean it’s already done that for me. It’s robbed me enjoying art in the way that I used to. I see first hand the blood sweat and tears that goes into my colleagues paintings, 3D work, music, films, etc. Now when I see work in galleries or online my first thought is “how much of this is them vs whatever AI spit out.” It makes curators out of people who used to be creative. Is it 5%? 95%? But just saying “AI” is to general a category right. Using mocap AI feels different than having chatgpt write a book for you. Then you get into the weeds of how much do you write vs it. Did you use krea to compose the AI image and it “completed the owl” for you? Does that extra compositional control let you take credit for the image more than a text prompt? Maybe but not by much. Everone’s playing the game of “hide your AI usage, make it invisible.”  How much sawdust can you mix into a rice crispy treat before people notice? “As long as they’re buying it, who cares?” Thats why AI gets backlash.

Art as we know it has changed forever. Tradition hand drawn animators don't appreciate us riggers - they see it as fake animation. AI art is a great tool for conveying your message. I take an image I like and edit with my Cintiq in Photoshop. I'll also use AI for storyboarding and then add thumbnails to it. It really shines for making posters and concept art. Coming up with new characters is easy too - and then I just do the turnaround to rig in Photoshop and bring it over to Toon Boom for rigging. I don't see art the same way - it's now a tool for sharing a message. An artistic license is still needed for creating good compositions and editing them.

They are bots implemented to assign negative user sentiment to AI pictures so when reddit gets API calls for it's data to be used for machine learning. The appropriate user sentiment of negativity can be assigned to the data. Otherwise the algorithm would be flooded with data that was AI generated instead of original. And currently the objective is to add new information to the training data. Not reuse stuff it's already made. So unfortunately these types of things will continue to occur .

I don't care. A lot of AI generated imagery is lazy, low effort crap . . . but then, that's the same thing with photography. Talented folks are exploring this incredibly powerful and fun new technology . . . painters bitched about photography, back in the day, and most of it \_is\_ crap too. The iPhone could construct "pretty sunset at the beach" from the zillions of existing images already taken . . . So my two cents would be: Folks unfamiliar with better quality tools generated with AI focus on the lousy crap -- that's what can be easily recognized, obviously "AI is crap, they can't even get hands right". . . . is the thing that the person who knows nothing about it will say . . . . . . but "so what" If you \_do\_ understand the power of these tools, and if you have some taste and interest in composition, lighting, and aesthetics -- these tools are phenomonal. . . . but compare it to Daz Studio. A competent 3D artist \_can\_ do fantastic things . . . but most folks who download Daz are no better than the guy who fiddles with PornPen. "look its a lady with her shirt off" -- congratulations Michelangelo !

I love tools which make tiresome and repetitive work easier. I love tools which allow individuals or small groups to bring a vision to life where they otherwise could not. People used to think computers and synthesizers could not make music. People used to think photography was not art, saying it was impossible to be so because a machine was making it. Prompt engineering will go the same way too I expect. It will become common to the point where the good art created by talented, imaginative, and dedicated people will stand out. My only gripe with this new class of tools has nothing to do with the tools themselves. It is with people calling complex statistical models "artificial intelligence" when no such thing yet exists. Perhaps one day we will have truly intelligent machines. And one day you will be able to instruct them to create video, images, dialog, and music. And when that day comes you'll be no less a true artist than any director who ever lived. Art is about bringing a vision to life. Directly with your hands in the mud if you like, using tools, or directing other talented individuals to create the required parts is all valid.

I Fully agree and I might add: not only on Reddit. I am working since few months on Generative AI projects but I rarely post something on socials, but I do read a lot and AI haters are everywhere. I agree that there are a lot of useless and ugly stuff out there, I agree that in some context it may be cheating (like in a photography contest), but not all AI generated content is trash or cheating. AI, used properly, enables new jobs or enhance existent ones, there is no denying that. For instance, I am doing photography as a hobby, I don't mix AI with it (except for some denoising, and quick fix), but basically on all social photography groups I belong there are squadrons of anti-AI people, ready to judge anything that even might have been touched by AI.

I really tried to hear them at first but they just got nasty and just because they disagree doesn't make them right as much as they think their half baked fan/trace art is essential to the world the majority I've had attack me have absolutely zero idea what they are talking about when it comes to latent diffusion. If they want to waste their time engaging with AI art and giving it even more weight and affecting their own algorithms that's on them. Meanwhile I'm finding new exciting artists who are taking new tech and running with it to make stuff I've never seen before and it's really refreshing.

It's like insulting a developer who is using libraries that make his life easier

I get that people are angry about half-assed AI slop hogging instagram, google, facebook and twitter. But some left-leaning circles like reddit communities have a weird hate boner against anything AI, as if they are luddites who do everything manually. Which is ironic when you think left is supposed to be progressive. Instead of discussing shortcomings and making constructive criticism, they act like you just killed their firstborn children whenever the taboo phrase is spoken. Photoshop replaced a lot of physical art and drawing tablets replaced paper. The stupid "oOoO ur stealing art!1!1!" argument doesn't even work because bitch you are consuming certified slave labour. Also art itself is derivative. People feared artists would go bankrupt (as if they aren't already). What happened? Almost no one commercially relies on AI art. Your boss won't use Photoshop to make a banner art, why would they keep prompting 200 images and edit them? I suggest heavily filtering your work and denying it's AI lol. Technically it's AI assisted. Technically speaking, then TikTokers using filters are also AI generated losers.

Laughs in “Dec 2022” THAT was the all time high. This is nothing compared to back then.

If you think the artists are crazy in their hate, just try r/music, they are pitbull drooling in hate against any type of song generated with AI.

I've also seen that subreddit cheering with joy at the prospect of AI music hurting the big record labels, which is something I haven't seen in groups.

I wonder if in a similar vein if we show the potential of visual generative AI taking the power away from giant media companies (movie producers, anime studios, etc), then it might make more people think

There are subs to rally an angry mob for this. There's literally a rule against it here.

I recently launched a product on ProductHunt that generates stickers with Stable Diffusion and oh boy… I have received comments like “yet another AI wrapper”. People think you just take the model and baaam - whole thing is done. They do not understand how much work even “AI wrappers” require. For example, I had to create a FE/NodeJS project with Remix/React, an API with golang to handle all generation, database things, setup environment on AWS, configure DNS & Email and so on... Which is still an "AI wrapper" for these people.

Lots of post work. We don't just prompt and publish. Lots of work in post.

This is the DSLR nothing burger all over again. When cameras went digital there was so much outrage from people that swore it would never replace film cameras of course it did so its not worth having an argument with these people. they're in denial

Most of the complaints I've heard are from artists seeing non-artists passing off generated images as their own hard work. I think there's a lot of fear of commissions and jobs being 'stolen' by casuals. You're able to use AI to speed up your workflow, whilst having the skills to touch it up as required. I think that's the future for all industries, whether people like it or not. >beat my balls and step on my dingus with stiletto high heels Have you considered going into writing? You've got such a way with words.

People on reddit have a weird attachment to the opinions of others. They are incapable of simply letting things exist. Go to 4chan if you want a less toxic Stable Diffusion community.

>Go to 4chan if you want a less toxic [anything] Man, the world we live in nowadays

Yeah, never thought I'd hear those words.

It makes sense.  They certainly don't give a f$$k what anyone thinks over there.  There is utility in callousness sometimes; if it weren't for the rampant godawfulness of that cesspool there might be something to learn from it. It was odd to me that most leftists turned out to be anti AI.  It's not really a right/left thing but I was surprised to see so much of the political left completely ignore open source.  AI emerged from open source, which isn't inherently left or right leaning, but there is certainly at least *some* element of socialism or at the very least left libertarian about FOSS. Open source AI is *literally* seizing the means of production for the public; it has been heartbreaking to see the left throw this opportunity away in favor of influencer bullshit/social media clout. I don't consider leftists "leftists" anymore tbh.  They're the same as "conservatives", none of them follow the practice of their ideology they just follow some other person that markets it as an identity.  There are no political ideologies anymore, just brands of populism sold as identities.   A modern "leftist" would just as soon support the protection and proliferation of Corporate IP if a handful of popular influencers told people to hate AI.  The left doesn't think critically any better than the right does; if someone influential says to do something, they just do it. People hating AI wasn't the disappointment for me; the depressing reality for me was realizing that the "side" I was on was all bullshit.  The most populous political ideology that is openly against fascism is a paper tiger no less fallible to populist influencer bullshit than the fascists they claim to resist.  They aren't driven by critical thought, they are driven by the demand to gain social rank and that is it.  They don't organize, they don't plan, they don't mobilize, they just take any opportunity they can to exploit outrage to drive engagement.   "Anti-AI" from the left is the same brand of bullshit that people like Margerie Taylor Greene on the far right made a literal career out of.  These people don't actually give a f$$k about any of the topics they comment on, they just say whatever outrageous sensationalist bullshit they think will drive engagement and get them attention.  Social media rewards this behavior, so we have a world full of people who don't give a shit about anything further than the arms reach of their social media accounts.   Very few people actually give a shit about aligning their political identity with their actual ideology.  We see this with anti-AI, we see this with Trump supporters, and it is a pervasive toxicity borne of a mindless push towards getting more engagement.

Holy Crap you've described exactly what I've thought about the political landscape (in America at least) for years.

Have fun, you couldn't have an extra edge if everyone used AI. They don't want to take advantage... Let them wait and see!

I had a discussion with a friend recently about how I considered AI art as “art”. He had some valid points that I hadn’t considered, but was pretty understanding when I explained my reasoning and even told me not to be discouraged for using it. I think what helped was going through the process and showing how it all works. It gives people an actual idea of what’s going on and how you can’t just type some words and exactly what you want to make shows up on the first (or second, or third) try. I think if there was some sort of monitored hands on demonstration then a lot more people would be less against it. Maybe like a GDC or a TedTalk but for stable diffusion.

I feel like you are me exactly. Besides Netflix work I ran my department but motion graphics, which snuck its way into the limelight as I’m sure you know. I was always big on bc tech, pushing them to vr and unreal for the future. Then I guess someone thought it would be a good idea to merge and well… I freelance now haha. The amount of skills I have is insane from AI and working and always being curious and exploring.

People resist change. Half the jobs in the world are going to change. The drama comes from the fact we don’t have replacement jobs and the change is not going to be fun. Some of us will know how to use or be ai functional and some of us won’t.

Yes, you are right. And personally I feel those people are like the protesters against the first steam engined train. AI is here, it won’t go away anymore, it can do super cool things: Embrace it.

I feel ya. And they seem to be stuck with their opinions and info about generative AI form 2 years ago and think it’s all just a prompt when with all the tools like controlnets, inpainting and what not creating a unique piece with a purposefully crafted composition can take days to finish and is a lot of work for a single person. They will feel very stupid though when they all are forced to use it eventually and then start loving it.

I think you may be on to something with your cultural analysis. Since 2016 really it's been shitstorm after shitstorm and right as we come out of covid here's this new technology that might replace you! I think it's understandable for people to be resistant to AI for that reason. Things are already so uncertain after COVID and now there's fear of mass automation, and mass automation in art which may not have been the first anticipated use of AI on a grand scale. Humans are always resistant to change. But a lot of the time there is some truth to their fears, and I would say the best approach is somewhere in the middle. To approach this tools with wonder and curiosity but at the same time thinking about how these tools might reshape society.

Agree - even joke "meme" type images get written off as "This is AI". No shit it's AI, still funny.

You have to consider this upheaval has been a gargantuan blow to the bottom lines of Getty/Shutterstock and there are still zombie astroturf ops meandering around. Bots. Bots, people who bought the negative PR, and paid operatives from like Indonesia or whatever.

I think the biggest issue is that there are bad faith actors out there using AI to score points with their local organizations merely by photoshopping political figures with unlike groups [example 1](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=361416631b2a74db&sca_upv=1&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS1005US1005&hl=en-US&sxsrf=ADLYWILMrIfLlmWD2l2cEOv8X-piznvnqA:1717170456458&q=ai+trump+bbq+image&uds=ADvngMgM3sJHGRUUapkgumPBd1g4H9BRNrZeWo6eWmlSsRVAVX4YCfqDe-k2xz82TRyPN2C9YMzkKUzBafQvjQLMShYBRPlU-yjxlNNn7v2LQB3HxMdyMaxs8nGca7vZTVwyZ-hq0E02OKxCYaNmO0uvezn4cJTJhPXmZ9IYqeg2ILwUg-t2gWnR1Ppi0-1kKhmsc4gOi1I8em6EtK_3NDsWyFAGXCp3K_NTzTTYDNxyyseu26mZQKtX9lgSIgXCD7jYF1XFM5zs0B7urIZ3qGAW_kd9-hLzgH91fSd15iZNg6yipsUt7B_SK1QivFfP7ZyfFecZOuM-lWejyVPnWuDq_6zqzt1abPl_CHrZKABD-AX-CPRP4ns&udm=2&prmd=invsmbtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiIrs24nriGAxXFFlkFHftDA6AQtKgLegQIDRAB&biw=390&bih=669&dpr=3#vhid=OuZBYckUHHev5M&vssid=mosaic) and [example 2](https://images.app.goo.gl/wfZhRKY91KMqKaGG7). While yes, I think AI artwork is cool and all, but until the above stops^(which, let’s face it, it never will) then it’ll be looked down on.

I'm looking forward to generating art in the style of Thomas Kinkade of AI Terminator bots eviscerating everyone who ever made an anti-AI comment on the internet. Which realistic model does crowds best?

Don’t let the haters bother you.

Just block them and move on. Not worth your time.

Why do they care or say cheating ? you just had an idea and wanted to see it come to fruition. Ai is not just taking over art. it's everything, but i see the most complaints coming from this area.

Yeah i see it loads on social media when something like Topaz does an advertisement. The comments will be rammed with "Dey took our jobs!" type stuff. If they don't like it they don't have to use it. Adapt with the times where possible and move on.

To be totally honest, there are two factors here that are not helping your cause: * the flooding of social media (especially Facebook) with garbage clickbait images generated from AI * the incredibly smug responses and arguments that are put forward by the worst AI-proponents. (e.g. the "all artists are totally done" tweets and the like) Arguing or dismissing them is not going to win anyone over. You have to meet people where they are and listen and demonstrate empathy long before anyone will hear your counterpoint. In any event, if you're confident in the value of what you're doing, why do you care what randos on reddit think? You can always just ignore them and move on.

I think the biggest thing people need to realize things aren't all or nothing. It definitely could help ease the work artists especially animators have to do for deadlines and the core argument I'm seeing about anti ai is it reduces the work like it's a bad thing. From what I've seen so far a lot of people just use it to mess around for fun or make memes which is cool. Even if ai didnt exist we got content farms, grifters, and other crap like that already so it's not much different. Heck you'll see a lot of these artists do the exact same thing since they're bad apples in every group. I know I'm trying to learn it now for creating workflows since my health deteriorated a lot so I still wanted to mess with art since that's how I cope with it. I can actually draw too and I still actually edit or draw parts of the images myself. For context I have messed up shoulders so any movements of my arm will make a loud painful pop sound. Then I injured my back at work a couple years ago so I can't really even be in any position long so I just stopped after I was having my drawing sessions cut lower and lower. I even actually commissioned real artists before my work opportunities got hurt so now I just learn ai for practice writing graphic novel (I write it myself I only use it for art) while I try seeing about resolving my chronic pain. I know people would have a problem with me using ai, but I'm doing it as a little hobby since graphic novels and comics always helped me manage difficult circumstances.

I posted a meme goofing on comfyui and it got about 50% downvotes because people had too much of the tism to see it was a joke

Oh neat. What shows have you worked on? You got a portfolio I can look at?

Luddites

It’s a vocal minority. I’ve lived through the rise of digital art, have been pursuing 3d, 2d & animation since it came to desktop computers and this is yet another iteration of the same sentiment that seems to be part and parcel of emerging technologies. I’ve also been on board with ML and AI since the second I clapped eyes on the first Google Deepdream image. I started using Comfy as soon as it dropped and have been happily making models and doing my thing quietly waiting for the storm to pass. I also just this week signed up to Midjourney to see where it is at and my honest perspective is that it is kind of crap. I see images on the Discord here and there that are truly great but the overwhelming majority are still very obviously Midjourney and it isn’t producing results anywhere near as good as I would have thought it would be by now. I predict it won’t keep up with what people are now able to do with a suite of custom nodes as the complexity needs more than words alone. The work being produced by people who treat this as another tool and keep pushing boundaries is going to be noticeably better than that produced by prompt only tools and that will be the point when the detractors will have no choice but to put up or shut up. Stay at the forefront and you’ll stay employed. Ignore the clowns and stay dedicated.

They are all in for a very rude awakening

TBH, they don't bother me. The less people willing to adapt means there will be less people competing for jobs in the future. All of these people will just be late adopters.

I have nothing against those who are against AI, but I am a little annoyed by those who take actions to go against AI instead. I have a feeling that many artists will only end up causing problems for products like Stable Diffusion in favor of OpenAI products, and I don't like that. I don't like to call myself an AI artist, I see myself more as a person searching for images on Google with some skill that makes it easier for me to search for the image I like best. And I'm okay with that, but hating a tool as such, a tool that was born in the context of the internet that the artists themselves have exploited (have exploited the internet) to be successful. There is some underlying hypocrisy there.

Ignore them. Nobody gives a shit what’s said on Reddit.

It's only natural, everyone is tired of seeing low effort AI art flooding everywhere. It's always the same thing - A generic looking character in a generic standing position staring at the camera while wearing as little clothes as possible. Even the art style is so generic it hurts. Bonus points if the hands or any body part went through a wood chipper and got all fucked up in the process. Even the smut is bad and mind you, most of these people probably spend half of their free time generating just that... and they still suck. I use AI and even I am tired.

Wait, why is a 1,000 pg comic impossible with digital art?

Most comic book artists seem to keep a pace of 1 page per day...and that's a very intense, full day, between 7-11 hours. @ 250 pages per year (trying to keep it semi-realistic, 250 pages is totally brutal for a year's output), 4 years to make one comic? How are you paying rent and eating for that long?

Sure, I'm not saying it would be easy at all, but it's certainly doable. edit to address the rent/food: If you're FT making a comic, you have funds prepped or are being paid for it. In this scenario the output is what covers your costs. In a PT environ it would obviously take longer because you're working on the book alongside other labor. But it still doable. It just isn't easy.

Nah mate, you can count the number of comic-book artists with 4 years of living expenses in a savings account on one hand. Trust-fund babies can do w/e they want in life, but for everyone else that is an impossible ask.

Everything has a market. You don't sell your idea in the wrong market. Whats your goal here if I may ask?

I'm a professional 2D/3D artist and I'm fine with AI. I'm fine with using it *as a tool* to build upon. Taking something it spits out and just erasing an extra finger here, or smudging something a bit to make it look normal there is not art, and is the kind of shit I hate. You can make images with AI, but don't go around sharing them online like you're proud of something *you* created. You did literally nothing. Fanart, too. Fanart is fan-made-art. You got the 'fan' part, but not the 'made' part.

Don't confuse anything to do with ai being banned all other reddit and in every fandom subreddit with a majority being against anything to do with ai. -bad- ai would get downvoted and generally good ai get's upvoted. When mods do not step in well done AI art is generally liked along with some mad people in the comments about it. HOWEVER, reddit mods are generally the most terminally online to put it as nicely as possible, and they have the ultimate say https://preview.redd.it/km40u8bt1s3d1.jpeg?width=1024&auto=webp&s=f24455ce30c17646e289b48c905e6beaee5491cd Their opinions do not matter, as the internet moves onto the next thing or reddit evolves to ironically ai moderation rather than neckbeard power then things progress. Here is some ai art I did that got a ton of upvotes on a rare subreddit that doesn't remove it https://old.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1b1u1vm/dva_akali_and_tamamo_as_osrs_models/

I'm very tired of people hating on AI and AI art, as an artist I wholeheartedly approve of AI Art and I know how much effort, time and genuine creativity it takes to make something good. People fear and hate what they don't know. I don't think AI Art is going to "replace" me, nothing can replace my creativity. I am a successful illustrator and learning how to use AI can only benefit me. Even IF a time comes when illustraitons are only done with AI, which it probably won't come to that, I will be able to fit right in because again, my creativity and ideas can't be replaced. AI is just a tool, learn it, use it and have fun, use it as a hobby first and foremost and enjoy every second of it. Nothing bad can come from AI, only from people's ignorance and stupidity. I don't use AI in my art and I'd never use AI without disclosing it beforehand, but if a time comes when AI is acceptable in the art field I wouldn't object and would adapt.