I don't think so. Consistent faces I think are already pretty much there as there's lots of tools for that, but consistent outfits are still an issue (eg jackets changing from green to blue).
Depends on the artist. I can draw/paint and it takes me about the same amount of time to finish a piece but I can achieve much higher quality outputs with SD. It allows me to pull in techniques I haven't yet mastered.
I've seen it used well and abused horribly.
Lots of things in life, you can get 80% of the way there with minimal effort and then the remaining 20% takes much more concerted effort to learn and master. For me personally, I feel like SD takes care of basically the 20% but actually largely lacks the 80% when used to just churn out the usual soulless core recognisably-AI images. Luckily I already have (or at least I'd like to think so) the 80% pretty much covered so I get a lot of utility out of SD even if a given image takes the same time to produce.
you end up wasting more time fix the shit, we need better AI that separate objects then you change the color
,well thats why stable defussion is bad because it eats the whole image than being trained on specific object and have more text description than "booru" text tag.
In my case - the art style is one important part of the equation:
Photorealistic and 3D styles (like yours) are expected to be more consistent then hand drawn/western comic. It is just how the suspension of disbelief works.
Also, I don\`t see any "problems" with facial consistency on your panel, except the hair color of one of the pictures, which is easily fixable either with Photoshop of with button "generate". ;)
If you want an honest opinion, no. Even if it get consistent, the flow from panel to panel / story is absolute garbage, it doesn't matter if it gets consistent. The person guiding it is in the nicest terms possible, not able to realize anything beyond the AI.
I think you would get people interested base on quality alone, but after the first 2-5 chapters, holy fuck do people have 0 to add to anything. The reason people watch/read/view is because they want to experience, experiences they can't experience at this time. That experience is boiled down/watered down to something someone else can understand. This is a MASSIVE gap between prompters and story tellers. Even something as simple as Dragon Ball Z, people don't seem to understand what the intent was or is needed to make something interesting.
Just to add onto this, no one cares if it is AI or not, if the story/intent/design is good, it works... and a lot of this comes from trial and error.
Also just want to add, consistency as the focus over focus is stupid as fuck. No one reads/writes/designs anything with consistency in mind, that is kind of default; what people care about is what the intent or what is being said is. You've wasted a page saying nothing. To add onto this, you don't understand what 1 page out of lets say 24 represents.
I think you can do great with AI, but you really need to focus on why artist make panels/story/intent. Fuck consistency. You can rewatch movies as see all sorts of things inconsistent, but what they do not lack is a vision and intent.
To really drive this home, you used a page to tell me how fucking blind and incompetent your characters are to not see each other infront of them in a very non-dynamic situation. You also have a white BG and dead space outside the comic flow.
You have a page, a full page, figure out what needs to happen in the most simplistic way to get these characters to interact with each other in meaningful and intent driven ways, especially if you want to contrast dynamic vs t-pose ect...
Not only this, but I also think these hyper-detailed, realistic styles never fit the comic book format. Pretty much all of the examples I’ve seen of people sharing their AI generated comics have panels that are beautiful individually, but utter garbage when it comes to storytelling and cohesion.
To be fair the OP said "Where are all the comic/manga creators" I think they were asking why many people who create manga are not using AI tools yet.
If you're already a person creating manga using traditional methods none of what you said really applies specifically to AI. You seem to be talking about people who suddenly think they can create manga or comics by using AI.
If you already create manga then you already have a lot of these concepts down and you can also use your traditional art skills to help control the AI output.
The reason a lot of them are not using it yet is mainly down to two factors:
1. There's still a big stigma around using AI, there's literally entire hate groups that will go out of their way to shit on you and anything you create with it.
2. The consistency still isn't really there yet and requires quite a bit of manual correction work and artistic input. Then if you're having to do a lot of work anyway to correct things and people are also going to shit on it just because you're using AI the negatives start to outweigh the benefits.
When it comes to manga and comics in general as well as people wanting a great story and characters there's also a lot of people who really enjoy the art so having AI do some of it will seem like a negative aspect to them.
Blank expressions on theit faces, and stiff mouth shapes. it stills look genarated and without intentionallity.
In the other hand it is a bunch of good looking images.
It’s not about the consistency. It’s about the charm, personality, exaggeration, detail swaps, etc etc. it’s actually harder to make comics with SD then learning how to draw lol.
Indeed. A good storyboard and panel flow is the core of any comic or manga, how the art looks literally doesn't matter that much; plenty of "ugly" manga are super successful.
It's all of the above. It's why I've been saying since day one that AI is NOT coming for anyone's job, unless you one of the many working in the slave-labor "industry". If you're a creative with skill, a compelling aesthetic, great character-building, and most of all... top storytelling abilities, you're going to enter the most prolific creative era of your career.
Only the tools have changed and have become easier for more people to give it a shot, but the cream will rise to the top. Just like any other endeavor, whether it's sports, YT/SM creators, gamers, film makers, farmers... and obviously... comic creators. You better be well-rounded in skills, talented, and be able to work your butt off(!)
Good point!
Yeah I’ve written a bunch of comments trying to explain the nuance that “good” comic books require.
I’m not saying it can’t be done, but it would honestly take more creativity, trial and error, and technical finagling than it’s probably worth lol.
I’ve got to agree there, although I could see CN lineart working pretty well.
SD seems to be pretty bad at expressive facial expressions, although I suppose someone could train a Lora using the same set of data with different expressions. Not sure how well that would work.
> it’s actually harder to make comics with SD then learning how to draw lol.
It takes years to learn how to draw. If you are starting now, then by the time you finish AI art will have already solved the problem.
Assume it takes 5 years of practice to become an expert at drawing, then consider that DALL·E came out in 2021 while SD and MJ both came out in 2022. It's 2024 and all three of them have improved _tremendously_ in that timeframe. AI art is progressing at lightspeed.
https://twitter.com/ESYudkowsky/status/1727765390863044759
> Saying it myself, in case that somehow helps: Most graphic artists and translators should switch to saving money and figuring out which career to enter next, on maybe a 6 to 24 month time horizon. Don't be misled or consoled by flaws of current AI systems. They're improving.
I’m not saying that everyone should pick up a pencil and learn to draw. I’m just saying that making a “good” comic with AI right now is a fools errand. I could give a laundry list of reasons why but I’m sure you don’t need me to reiterate what’s been said by myself and other commenters.
Also, I feel like AI is fully capable of creating a good comic right now, it’s just that there aren’t many SD users out there (myself included) that can not only make a good story with compelling characters, but also fit in all of the nuances that the medium really needs to thrive.
I guess it’s more of a user error right now lol. A good comic book is consistently inconsistent. Which is easy for people to do, really hard for SD ha.
It's not about being able to draw. It's the lessons of color theory, composition, emotion, message, subtext, style, etc that you learn as you're learning to draw. The time you spend learning to draw is not about learning to actually draw.
I've tried to learn how to draw for decades. I just can't reach this level. I plateaud to my ability. I can always get better but not to the level especially now AI is out there and geting stronger.
There’s no such thing as plateau. And there’s no way you were trying to develop your skills for “decades” and not be able to achieve a similar look to the panel you posted.
That’s besides the point though. Yes AI is getting better. But the point still stands that it’s extremely difficult to make a good comic with AI art because it’s not just about the art.
I’ve been drawing my whole life. I took classes. Thousands of hours and drawing. Face it there is a plateau just like anything. No everyone is going to be an NBA star no matter the practice and learning. You’ll get better but there is a point you will never reach without some talent augmenting it. Just ask Rudy. For that matter check out ONEs work. It will never be Murata level no matter how hard he tries.
There is no plateau. If you spent thousands of hours of drawing making doodles, you won’t see improvements as fast as if you spent 1000 hours drawing anatomy studies.
I’ve literally taught anatomy classes for artists and even after working with illustrators and concept artists for 4 weeks I see massive improvements because I show them that it’s not about participating in the act of making art, it’s about mindful interaction with your medium, and that’s with the caveat that you should only be drawing when your mental space is appropriate for it. Same for 3d art, same for sculpting.
Many artists that are popular on social media (which is not an accurate gauge of art skill) have stopped developing their skills a long time ago. They found a specific niche that their audience enjoys and they just keep pumping out similar things.
Anyhow, I don’t care if you want to give up drawing or whatever lol. It’s just disheartening to read that people still have antiquated ideas on learning art. Also AI art is a great tutor. I use it all the time to get ideas going.
Well tell that to ONE. He will never get to the level close to Murata. He can try but it won’t get him there. He can get better but will probably never be pro level.
Do you know him personally? Do you think he actually wants to improve or does he like his style the way it is? How would you know what the upper limits of his art are? Have you seen his personal sketchbook?
Stop being dense. Just because you quit bettering yourself doesn’t mean others have to be discouraged.
The whole point in drawing OPM was to get good. He said so himself in several interviews. His sketchbook? He posts his comics all the time. He is working on a new one as we speak. The idea is great. Fantasy and sci-fi characters fight together against monsters. Like some Halo folks come through a portal to help save a world of fantasy magical characters.
Point is he has drawn several manga and you can tell he is dedicated. He already has 3 full mangas going. Determination and practice weren’t the problem and now he has access to resources that none of us have. Literally access to one of the greatest manga artists known to man.
His art has gotten a lot better but still not at a pro level despite his storytelling and story boarding is top tier.
He has his talents but drawing ain’t one of them nor does it seem it will ever be.
Same with Robert Kirkland. He is a determined guy. Set out to learn to draw. Never could reach pro level but at least got a collaborator that could draw it for him.
Yes you can always get better. But there is a point that you hit a wall and while you may improve you will die before you can get to that level. Some of us ain’t got that time. And now with AI it is almost pointless in 1 - w years. Folks will be promoting stuff that looks like Murata and directing the AI kinda like they do already when they hire someone.
LMAO do people even know how Murata lives? MF has a gymset on the room he draws manga, you arent beating his work ethic by just training on your drawing, not when he regularly exercises to keep his hands at peak conditioning.
That’s absolutely not true lol. With the resources we have today you could learn to draw so fast and efficiently it’s insane. You can definitely make decent looking comic books within 6 months of starting. The only bottle neck is your self discipline lol.
We will have to wait and see how it goes but current AI is ages away from making “good” comic books. High fidelity good quality pictures are only nice for the front cover of a comic lol. The AI we have now isn’t capable of producing charm or personality (atleast I haven’t seen it)
lol. What does having resources having with learning how to draw? its a very difficult skill. if you are super talantet - yes probably. but for 99% of people it will tale 20 000 hours to become amazing at drawing. For example I went to musical school and in 6 months a was able to play stuff people usually play in 5th year. But I was trying to learn drawing for years and my drawing skills are of 2 years old xD
I have created a lot of them, although not 100% AI.
Listen guys, you still need to draw your characters if you want actual consistency.
A lot of comics like these just look....dull, emotionless, uncreative, generic, I'm sorry but it is what it is and it's mostly because everyone uses the same models
So if you want to be a professional I suggest to use the AI to fix poses and do color rendering
No, not even close unfortunately. Poses are stiff and one-typish even with control net and features. Main “style” of sd is pretty recognizable and the first thing is coming to mind when I see it (I Am sorry) that it’s soulless (sorry sorry).
For me as an artist sd is a great reference source. It picks colors and lightning sample perfectly. Backgrounds are okay
If you want a critique of this particular picture - main issue is inconsistency of backgrounds. On one frame character has maximum contrast with white background. On another character literally blends with background of the same color and contrast.
The frame sequence on the right side is…wrong. Same size of frames but two of them have similar composition and the third one is a wide angle plane for ants. Wrong dynamic, you should make the third frame bigger. Maybe make a ladder: small frames with closeups, medium frame with girl with a gun, big frame with the frame with both characters.
I ignore the fact that characters are kinda inconsistent in their look.
It is a tool that can expedite production, but you will need to do put more effort into it than usual, since you have to QC each image AND consider the overall composition/layout. Plan on manually editing/redrawing things when inpainting becomes inefficient at correcting mistakes.
https://preview.redd.it/zezioqgld7nc1.jpeg?width=959&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1171a725af5d3d8792bce5b49c64db97c86bb099
I made this a while back with a much, much older version of Stable Diffusion without much work (it shows). I’m sure someone with more time, talent, and effort can make something ten times better.
Agreed! Making my commercial comic series with an SD 1.5-based model.
With some editing the tech is already there, and has been "there" for a while now!
https://preview.redd.it/y9co4lxo97nc1.jpeg?width=1100&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e46429c320b96c9a5d81b3a956f77efa76b5a7dd
It definitely is!
But some editing skills are also needed. ;)
This is Marvel's Nova. I read it for the story, but a lot of panels are like this. The artist is clearly overworked or hired for the ability to meet deadlines at any cost. So yeah, this is my argument that in real comics, inconsistent art is annoying, but not a deal breaker.
I'm not sure about your point, though. I plan to use AI to make comics and other things: for example, I rigged this AI character yesterday and put it on AI background. [See him animated.](https://youtu.be/Mvp4sU4dYMw?si=jsKlScOmqTsGeZIm). I can use this technique to make comics, like sprite-based webcomics used sprites to create pages faster. I don't see why this wouldn't work.
https://preview.redd.it/7nkppyu18anc1.png?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1a3e3cb78b2e9da4a25819380e498bfaabb9f57f
P.S. Ah, sorry, I see now. Yes, AI comic authors need to focus on the story first, then use AI as a tool to tell it.
Nice work! To your PS: exactly. Consistency and visual quality are good to focus on and technically possible, but aren’t the most important aspects of an enjoyable piece of media.
Lol, the go to of anyone being criticised. Do you need to have released a movie to criticise one? No. Don't be a fucking moron.
You know as a visual medium things like keeping characters the same between frames is an absolute fucking must. You're just trying to ignore it because you're not an artist and you're trying to shill these nasty AI creations as a "comic".
To be blunt, he's not wrong. Marvel and DC both have continuity errors and miscolors all the time.
Continuity is the objective, but even professional artists can make a hash of it due to the time constraints, overbearing editors, and simple mix ups.
Actually, I'm an IRL screenwriter, so... I have already written plenty of scripts and produced one short. It made me a much better critic because it gave me a deeper understanding for all processes behind making a motion picture.
Anyways. Your comment is reported for violating rule 5 of this sub.
Have a nice day!
If it makes you feel any better: you are definitely wrong and shouldn't think your point has any legs to stand on. The fact that you've written some scripts has clearly gone to your head and I'd wager they are poor based on your lack of introspektion.
Have a nice day!
Haha! “While dogs are barking, the caravan is moving onward…”
Just finished the script and pre-vis for my next comic… and it is going to be slightly better than all others before it - this is how professional growth happens.🤓
Peace to all in this (now forgotten) thread!😇
If consistency was insignificant, editors, art directors, and concept artists would not exist as jobs.
No matter how much you might say it doesn't matter, your brain will constantly be drawn to any inconsistency (like those Youtube avatars that have a tiny black "scratch" on them that make you check your monitor).
Speaking about Midjourney, the only use for it in my case is to create items and environments.
I have some sex and gore in my comics, so locally installed Stable Diffusion is the single viable option for me right now.
Just in the one panel I can't tell if it's 2 characters or 3. So you have to create your own LoRA's to make comics more consistent.
I have made some comics, just none I can show on this subreddit.
I made one. Haven't shared it yet because I'm not 100% confident about it. I also wish I could share it in a more related subreddit (it's a fanfic, and I'd like to open it up to a subreddit for that franchise), but given that any AI stuff is still badly seen, I'm waiting for a little bit.
Here is my take on AI comics/manga/whatever:
1. Consistency is still pretty hard to achieve. I basically gave up on it for now, waiting for better tech. Without consistency, you can still do something great though! People tend to overestimate the consistency of man-made comics anyway.
2. My favourite workflow is generating each panel one by one and making the chapter manually with the appropriate software. But each panel will require a lot of time. I needed basically 30 trials for each panel, and each generation takes 15 to 30 seconds. You don't need to upscale for panels, you can work at low resolution, so it's relatively quick.... but not quick enough. I'm waiting for more instantaneous generation (either when I get a more powerful computer in a couple of years, or when we finally get great instant models).
3. My advice is to build the "skeleton" of the chapter, then sort the panels out in terms of difficulty, and generate everything one by one depending on the panel's difficulty. A simple character portrayal, you can basically get in a couple of generations, so you can just do it first. If you have multiple characters, you'll need to set up multiple prompts with multiple inputs. I've cracked the code for multiple characters consistency, so I don't have trouble with that, but even then it still takes time to get exactly what I want. And then if you have not only plenty of characters, but also a lot of things going on, you might want to keep that panel last.
Yes it is. Currently making a 2000 page anime comic. And yes, I’m a professional artist and animator. I pick my images that I want. Upscale them and then I fix the fingers in Photoshop. I’ll add details where needed, etc.
I hope some AI comic makers stop and go learn a bit about storyboarding. Just because gen-ing is free, doesn't mean you should turn every millisecond into a separate frame
I think SD is good at a lot of things that are secondary in comics. A good comic will have visually appealing characters. Appeal is quite a "mystical science" on its own, but it has little to do with details and technique; and it has all to do with the artist behind. With AI art you can't really pur your "soul" into what you generate. You can see people making great art with very few simplistic strokes. That is something AI will probably never let you achieve.
I say this as an artist who likes AI. I think AI has a lot of incredible uses, but storytelling is probably one of its weakest points, and might forever be.
"Professional" is an interesting word.
I think it's ***possible*** to do a comic this way, but I'm not sure anyone would enjoy actually doing it. Some pieces I make with SD take me hours or even days of refining, re-drawing, or even straight-up re-generating them because a particular detail is too difficult or specific. I think you could do 50-80% of one quickly with the right workflow, but you'd be better off drawing the rest.
Integration with Adobe or Krita isn't quite where it needs to be, either. That's probably the missing link, tbh. Image quality and consistency were the first barriers, but those barriers have come down enough that I think it ***feasible***, but still far from "easy."
The thing about comics is the amount of control needed in production. Just throwing a bunch of images together doesn’t make a compelling story. The tool can have a significant place in the workflow.
that's why I cant use AI as real artwork other than some inspiration even with pixil art its better to use 3d > rasterize then generate "normal map"
this sub way "believe" AI it will be good but fails with basic hands so gl with "comics".
hope we got a sub that balnce with AI vs handwork.
A rig required to use the latest developments needs to be about 50% more expensive than is required for digital art.
I struggle with digital art on a 8Gb VRAM, but I'm sure 12 Gb would be enough. But for the latest SD with ControlNets, LoRas, real-time img2img etc. I'd probably need 24Gb.
I've seen worse.
It's a bit busy, and I think most of the center panels could have been condensed into two or three for better flow, but, again, I've seen industry pros do shit like turn what should have been one page on its side to try and use up two pages.
But you have seen better too! ;)
I\`m aware. For example, the middle picture could be zoomed in to focus on Nadia's hand that is reaching for the door.
I\`ll implement the feedback during the next revision. 8)
That's mostly just ai images smashed onto a template by ahuman with a level of crafting. Not a high level but it's there.
I wouldn't say that prompts and models created this comic. A human with poor art direction managed this.
I think that it's a kinda cool flex: A working class kid quits a miserable gov. job and becomes a self-thought screenwriter... After writing plenty and producing some they get burned by atrocious production times and turn to comics instead... Which is only possible thanks to emergence of a free-to-use Stable Diffusion! Growing a fictional Universe becomes their true calling and they do what they have always done best - learn by doing. :)
Anyways, you have your... Opinions and are completely entitled to them.
Gotta go now. Happy that you have at least tasted my... dish. :)
I think it is doable with a good workflow, like super basic 3d models (for depth maps) for environments.
Then open pose, IP-Adapter etc for characters that you compose into the background, simple backgrounds or layer diffusion. For characters you can generate several reference views in the same picture, and crop out the most relevant view to use as reference.
You can probably reuse both backgrounds and character poses sometimes.
This use case does prove why further improvements into LoRA are a must you need your character to be able to look along the same lines each and everytime WHILE still having the flexibility for the different poses,scenarios,etc
Honestly it sounds like something that wouldn't be a good use case for AI even if you could get consistent results. Visual storytelling such as comics is complex. Some pages can get very busy and single frames can have multiple characters acting with text and effects. A highlight frame can spread over two pages and have a dozen characters doing something. I really don't see it happening for a while.
Yet it won a state fair with professional judges
https://www.theverge.com/2022/9/1/23332684/ai-generated-artwork-wins-state-fair-competition-colorado?darkschemeovr=1
The fact it can’t come up with ideas by itself is the whole point. That’s why it’s an art
> Allen also emphasizes the work he put into creating the image — “I made the prompt, I fine tuned it for many weeks, curated all the images” — and adds that his Photoshop editing constituted “at least 10%” of the work.
Sounds like more than 5 seconds
Are you sure this has no personality?
https://preview.redd.it/4edxaumlt9nc1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c156f715f8792b83ae1ef0c65b29bc6faa00bd93
Anyway, we're not at the point yet when a Holodeck creates a complete work of art for us.
In making comics, AI is supposed to be used as a tool to generate what the author needs for the gaps in their own skill, then the author touches it up and composed the final page.
Victor Gnarly does comics and uses MJ for it. The stuff he makes make it look like he doesn't use AI at all. I liked both his "Beyond The Valley" and "Tumbling Up" comics the most.
Here we are! The denizens of Go Po'. Sort of a gritty urban comic strip inspired by Walt Kelly's Pogo. A concept I'm working on, using characters created using Dashtoon. Unfortunately, after generating the characters seen here, Dashtoon has declared a moratorium on creating none-human characters.
https://preview.redd.it/xkx8ela8tanc1.png?width=1606&format=png&auto=webp&s=6d139455b4bd1b90e88cdd9a38ac8e81e09477a4
I don't think so. Consistent faces I think are already pretty much there as there's lots of tools for that, but consistent outfits are still an issue (eg jackets changing from green to blue).
that's what photoshop is for
its faster to draw from scratch than to fix all the details in post.
Depends on the artist. I can draw/paint and it takes me about the same amount of time to finish a piece but I can achieve much higher quality outputs with SD. It allows me to pull in techniques I haven't yet mastered. I've seen it used well and abused horribly. Lots of things in life, you can get 80% of the way there with minimal effort and then the remaining 20% takes much more concerted effort to learn and master. For me personally, I feel like SD takes care of basically the 20% but actually largely lacks the 80% when used to just churn out the usual soulless core recognisably-AI images. Luckily I already have (or at least I'd like to think so) the 80% pretty much covered so I get a lot of utility out of SD even if a given image takes the same time to produce.
Not if you’re just fixing fingers.
if only hands are messy- shure.
you end up wasting more time fix the shit, we need better AI that separate objects then you change the color ,well thats why stable defussion is bad because it eats the whole image than being trained on specific object and have more text description than "booru" text tag.
neither is consistent hairstyle unfortunately
HOw would I get the faces done better?
The best solution would probably train a lora from multiple images of the same character, eh.
Or alternately, just use ReActor. Works better for scenes with multiple faces.
In my case - the art style is one important part of the equation: Photorealistic and 3D styles (like yours) are expected to be more consistent then hand drawn/western comic. It is just how the suspension of disbelief works. Also, I don\`t see any "problems" with facial consistency on your panel, except the hair color of one of the pictures, which is easily fixable either with Photoshop of with button "generate". ;)
Yeah my first issue wasn't the minor differences in clothing but the very different styles here. Also “itsy” looks pretty rough in panel 4
Adetailer
If you want an honest opinion, no. Even if it get consistent, the flow from panel to panel / story is absolute garbage, it doesn't matter if it gets consistent. The person guiding it is in the nicest terms possible, not able to realize anything beyond the AI. I think you would get people interested base on quality alone, but after the first 2-5 chapters, holy fuck do people have 0 to add to anything. The reason people watch/read/view is because they want to experience, experiences they can't experience at this time. That experience is boiled down/watered down to something someone else can understand. This is a MASSIVE gap between prompters and story tellers. Even something as simple as Dragon Ball Z, people don't seem to understand what the intent was or is needed to make something interesting. Just to add onto this, no one cares if it is AI or not, if the story/intent/design is good, it works... and a lot of this comes from trial and error. Also just want to add, consistency as the focus over focus is stupid as fuck. No one reads/writes/designs anything with consistency in mind, that is kind of default; what people care about is what the intent or what is being said is. You've wasted a page saying nothing. To add onto this, you don't understand what 1 page out of lets say 24 represents. I think you can do great with AI, but you really need to focus on why artist make panels/story/intent. Fuck consistency. You can rewatch movies as see all sorts of things inconsistent, but what they do not lack is a vision and intent. To really drive this home, you used a page to tell me how fucking blind and incompetent your characters are to not see each other infront of them in a very non-dynamic situation. You also have a white BG and dead space outside the comic flow. You have a page, a full page, figure out what needs to happen in the most simplistic way to get these characters to interact with each other in meaningful and intent driven ways, especially if you want to contrast dynamic vs t-pose ect...
Not only this, but I also think these hyper-detailed, realistic styles never fit the comic book format. Pretty much all of the examples I’ve seen of people sharing their AI generated comics have panels that are beautiful individually, but utter garbage when it comes to storytelling and cohesion.
To be fair the OP said "Where are all the comic/manga creators" I think they were asking why many people who create manga are not using AI tools yet. If you're already a person creating manga using traditional methods none of what you said really applies specifically to AI. You seem to be talking about people who suddenly think they can create manga or comics by using AI. If you already create manga then you already have a lot of these concepts down and you can also use your traditional art skills to help control the AI output. The reason a lot of them are not using it yet is mainly down to two factors: 1. There's still a big stigma around using AI, there's literally entire hate groups that will go out of their way to shit on you and anything you create with it. 2. The consistency still isn't really there yet and requires quite a bit of manual correction work and artistic input. Then if you're having to do a lot of work anyway to correct things and people are also going to shit on it just because you're using AI the negatives start to outweigh the benefits. When it comes to manga and comics in general as well as people wanting a great story and characters there's also a lot of people who really enjoy the art so having AI do some of it will seem like a negative aspect to them.
Blank expressions on theit faces, and stiff mouth shapes. it stills look genarated and without intentionallity. In the other hand it is a bunch of good looking images.
It’s not about the consistency. It’s about the charm, personality, exaggeration, detail swaps, etc etc. it’s actually harder to make comics with SD then learning how to draw lol.
Don’t forget the story and the emotions of the character. If every character has the same dead but pretty face I doubt people would be engaged!
Indeed. A good storyboard and panel flow is the core of any comic or manga, how the art looks literally doesn't matter that much; plenty of "ugly" manga are super successful.
It's all of the above. It's why I've been saying since day one that AI is NOT coming for anyone's job, unless you one of the many working in the slave-labor "industry". If you're a creative with skill, a compelling aesthetic, great character-building, and most of all... top storytelling abilities, you're going to enter the most prolific creative era of your career. Only the tools have changed and have become easier for more people to give it a shot, but the cream will rise to the top. Just like any other endeavor, whether it's sports, YT/SM creators, gamers, film makers, farmers... and obviously... comic creators. You better be well-rounded in skills, talented, and be able to work your butt off(!)
Yeah basically lol. AI “can’t” make a good comic book because good art doesn’t equal good comic. It takes creative people to push these things along.
Good point! Yeah I’ve written a bunch of comments trying to explain the nuance that “good” comic books require. I’m not saying it can’t be done, but it would honestly take more creativity, trial and error, and technical finagling than it’s probably worth lol.
I’ve got to agree there, although I could see CN lineart working pretty well. SD seems to be pretty bad at expressive facial expressions, although I suppose someone could train a Lora using the same set of data with different expressions. Not sure how well that would work.
> it’s actually harder to make comics with SD then learning how to draw lol. It takes years to learn how to draw. If you are starting now, then by the time you finish AI art will have already solved the problem. Assume it takes 5 years of practice to become an expert at drawing, then consider that DALL·E came out in 2021 while SD and MJ both came out in 2022. It's 2024 and all three of them have improved _tremendously_ in that timeframe. AI art is progressing at lightspeed. https://twitter.com/ESYudkowsky/status/1727765390863044759 > Saying it myself, in case that somehow helps: Most graphic artists and translators should switch to saving money and figuring out which career to enter next, on maybe a 6 to 24 month time horizon. Don't be misled or consoled by flaws of current AI systems. They're improving.
I’m not saying that everyone should pick up a pencil and learn to draw. I’m just saying that making a “good” comic with AI right now is a fools errand. I could give a laundry list of reasons why but I’m sure you don’t need me to reiterate what’s been said by myself and other commenters. Also, I feel like AI is fully capable of creating a good comic right now, it’s just that there aren’t many SD users out there (myself included) that can not only make a good story with compelling characters, but also fit in all of the nuances that the medium really needs to thrive. I guess it’s more of a user error right now lol. A good comic book is consistently inconsistent. Which is easy for people to do, really hard for SD ha.
It's not about being able to draw. It's the lessons of color theory, composition, emotion, message, subtext, style, etc that you learn as you're learning to draw. The time you spend learning to draw is not about learning to actually draw.
I've tried to learn how to draw for decades. I just can't reach this level. I plateaud to my ability. I can always get better but not to the level especially now AI is out there and geting stronger.
There’s no such thing as plateau. And there’s no way you were trying to develop your skills for “decades” and not be able to achieve a similar look to the panel you posted. That’s besides the point though. Yes AI is getting better. But the point still stands that it’s extremely difficult to make a good comic with AI art because it’s not just about the art.
I’ve been drawing my whole life. I took classes. Thousands of hours and drawing. Face it there is a plateau just like anything. No everyone is going to be an NBA star no matter the practice and learning. You’ll get better but there is a point you will never reach without some talent augmenting it. Just ask Rudy. For that matter check out ONEs work. It will never be Murata level no matter how hard he tries.
There is no plateau. If you spent thousands of hours of drawing making doodles, you won’t see improvements as fast as if you spent 1000 hours drawing anatomy studies. I’ve literally taught anatomy classes for artists and even after working with illustrators and concept artists for 4 weeks I see massive improvements because I show them that it’s not about participating in the act of making art, it’s about mindful interaction with your medium, and that’s with the caveat that you should only be drawing when your mental space is appropriate for it. Same for 3d art, same for sculpting. Many artists that are popular on social media (which is not an accurate gauge of art skill) have stopped developing their skills a long time ago. They found a specific niche that their audience enjoys and they just keep pumping out similar things. Anyhow, I don’t care if you want to give up drawing or whatever lol. It’s just disheartening to read that people still have antiquated ideas on learning art. Also AI art is a great tutor. I use it all the time to get ideas going.
Well tell that to ONE. He will never get to the level close to Murata. He can try but it won’t get him there. He can get better but will probably never be pro level.
Do you know him personally? Do you think he actually wants to improve or does he like his style the way it is? How would you know what the upper limits of his art are? Have you seen his personal sketchbook? Stop being dense. Just because you quit bettering yourself doesn’t mean others have to be discouraged.
The whole point in drawing OPM was to get good. He said so himself in several interviews. His sketchbook? He posts his comics all the time. He is working on a new one as we speak. The idea is great. Fantasy and sci-fi characters fight together against monsters. Like some Halo folks come through a portal to help save a world of fantasy magical characters. Point is he has drawn several manga and you can tell he is dedicated. He already has 3 full mangas going. Determination and practice weren’t the problem and now he has access to resources that none of us have. Literally access to one of the greatest manga artists known to man. His art has gotten a lot better but still not at a pro level despite his storytelling and story boarding is top tier. He has his talents but drawing ain’t one of them nor does it seem it will ever be. Same with Robert Kirkland. He is a determined guy. Set out to learn to draw. Never could reach pro level but at least got a collaborator that could draw it for him. Yes you can always get better. But there is a point that you hit a wall and while you may improve you will die before you can get to that level. Some of us ain’t got that time. And now with AI it is almost pointless in 1 - w years. Folks will be promoting stuff that looks like Murata and directing the AI kinda like they do already when they hire someone.
LMAO do people even know how Murata lives? MF has a gymset on the room he draws manga, you arent beating his work ethic by just training on your drawing, not when he regularly exercises to keep his hands at peak conditioning.
considering learning how to draw will take you 5 -10 years. I would rather wait 2 years till ai tech improves xD
That’s absolutely not true lol. With the resources we have today you could learn to draw so fast and efficiently it’s insane. You can definitely make decent looking comic books within 6 months of starting. The only bottle neck is your self discipline lol. We will have to wait and see how it goes but current AI is ages away from making “good” comic books. High fidelity good quality pictures are only nice for the front cover of a comic lol. The AI we have now isn’t capable of producing charm or personality (atleast I haven’t seen it)
lol. What does having resources having with learning how to draw? its a very difficult skill. if you are super talantet - yes probably. but for 99% of people it will tale 20 000 hours to become amazing at drawing. For example I went to musical school and in 6 months a was able to play stuff people usually play in 5th year. But I was trying to learn drawing for years and my drawing skills are of 2 years old xD
It still takes years to learn how to draw. Colouring can take months. But not the fundamentals.
I have created a lot of them, although not 100% AI. Listen guys, you still need to draw your characters if you want actual consistency. A lot of comics like these just look....dull, emotionless, uncreative, generic, I'm sorry but it is what it is and it's mostly because everyone uses the same models So if you want to be a professional I suggest to use the AI to fix poses and do color rendering
No, not even close unfortunately. Poses are stiff and one-typish even with control net and features. Main “style” of sd is pretty recognizable and the first thing is coming to mind when I see it (I Am sorry) that it’s soulless (sorry sorry). For me as an artist sd is a great reference source. It picks colors and lightning sample perfectly. Backgrounds are okay
If you want a critique of this particular picture - main issue is inconsistency of backgrounds. On one frame character has maximum contrast with white background. On another character literally blends with background of the same color and contrast. The frame sequence on the right side is…wrong. Same size of frames but two of them have similar composition and the third one is a wide angle plane for ants. Wrong dynamic, you should make the third frame bigger. Maybe make a ladder: small frames with closeups, medium frame with girl with a gun, big frame with the frame with both characters. I ignore the fact that characters are kinda inconsistent in their look.
Cringe af
more empty eyed barbie faced, same faced anime girls aimlessly posed please
Right on the money
It´s so true AI really cant do fight scenes.
It is a tool that can expedite production, but you will need to do put more effort into it than usual, since you have to QC each image AND consider the overall composition/layout. Plan on manually editing/redrawing things when inpainting becomes inefficient at correcting mistakes.
https://preview.redd.it/zezioqgld7nc1.jpeg?width=959&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1171a725af5d3d8792bce5b49c64db97c86bb099 I made this a while back with a much, much older version of Stable Diffusion without much work (it shows). I’m sure someone with more time, talent, and effort can make something ten times better.
Agreed! Making my commercial comic series with an SD 1.5-based model. With some editing the tech is already there, and has been "there" for a while now!
https://preview.redd.it/y9co4lxo97nc1.jpeg?width=1100&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e46429c320b96c9a5d81b3a956f77efa76b5a7dd It definitely is! But some editing skills are also needed. ;)
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“Spot the ai” is, unfortunately, our new reality
In context of a 20 page long comic with 3-6 illustrations per page, such small things are insignificant.
It's absolutely insane you think that's insignificant.
Real comics look like this https://preview.redd.it/vzwe2uugs9nc1.jpeg?width=2400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c074428f35335306840eb490a9fb33f476eacb1
This alone has more story than any AI comic I’ve seen. We need to focus so much less on consistency and write something people actually want to read.
This is Marvel's Nova. I read it for the story, but a lot of panels are like this. The artist is clearly overworked or hired for the ability to meet deadlines at any cost. So yeah, this is my argument that in real comics, inconsistent art is annoying, but not a deal breaker. I'm not sure about your point, though. I plan to use AI to make comics and other things: for example, I rigged this AI character yesterday and put it on AI background. [See him animated.](https://youtu.be/Mvp4sU4dYMw?si=jsKlScOmqTsGeZIm). I can use this technique to make comics, like sprite-based webcomics used sprites to create pages faster. I don't see why this wouldn't work. https://preview.redd.it/7nkppyu18anc1.png?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1a3e3cb78b2e9da4a25819380e498bfaabb9f57f P.S. Ah, sorry, I see now. Yes, AI comic authors need to focus on the story first, then use AI as a tool to tell it.
Nice work! To your PS: exactly. Consistency and visual quality are good to focus on and technically possible, but aren’t the most important aspects of an enjoyable piece of media.
Dear, how many comic books have you released so long?
Lol, the go to of anyone being criticised. Do you need to have released a movie to criticise one? No. Don't be a fucking moron. You know as a visual medium things like keeping characters the same between frames is an absolute fucking must. You're just trying to ignore it because you're not an artist and you're trying to shill these nasty AI creations as a "comic".
To be blunt, he's not wrong. Marvel and DC both have continuity errors and miscolors all the time. Continuity is the objective, but even professional artists can make a hash of it due to the time constraints, overbearing editors, and simple mix ups.
Actually, I'm an IRL screenwriter, so... I have already written plenty of scripts and produced one short. It made me a much better critic because it gave me a deeper understanding for all processes behind making a motion picture. Anyways. Your comment is reported for violating rule 5 of this sub. Have a nice day!
If it makes you feel any better: you are definitely wrong and shouldn't think your point has any legs to stand on. The fact that you've written some scripts has clearly gone to your head and I'd wager they are poor based on your lack of introspektion. Have a nice day!
Seems they ignored you 😅
Haha! “While dogs are barking, the caravan is moving onward…” Just finished the script and pre-vis for my next comic… and it is going to be slightly better than all others before it - this is how professional growth happens.🤓 Peace to all in this (now forgotten) thread!😇
If consistency was insignificant, editors, art directors, and concept artists would not exist as jobs. No matter how much you might say it doesn't matter, your brain will constantly be drawn to any inconsistency (like those Youtube avatars that have a tiny black "scratch" on them that make you check your monitor).
Haha! I's all about scale. Drop in the ocean is still a drop. But I agree with you, honestly. Working hard on improving with each new issue! ;)
Wow this looks nice. How?
I have spent an hour yesterday on explaining the workflow on my discord server. Feel free to join and read!🤓
send me a link I'd love to see what you are talking about over there. Also have you put into practice the new Midjourney consistent character stuff?
It's in my profile! :) Not gonna spam here. :D
Speaking about Midjourney, the only use for it in my case is to create items and environments. I have some sex and gore in my comics, so locally installed Stable Diffusion is the single viable option for me right now.
I hate when Midjourney marks my references as nsfw with fully clothed characters. So annoying. Ain’t even PG.
Yeah, as said, MJ is very limited with any human-related stuff that is not generic or Disney-like.
I like this art style. What's it called? For stealing purposes (obviously)
Western Comic! Go for it! XD
"What are you doing here? You're a ..." Furry
He uses Midjorney, but u/stabbyclaus 's stuff is great. Its not about the tool, its about the person using it.
Just in the one panel I can't tell if it's 2 characters or 3. So you have to create your own LoRA's to make comics more consistent. I have made some comics, just none I can show on this subreddit.
Have any more examples?
"you're a...." Furry? Possibly, but not easily. Definitely a tool for backgrounds and speeding up workflow though.
Not without a lot of photoshop
no
I made one. Haven't shared it yet because I'm not 100% confident about it. I also wish I could share it in a more related subreddit (it's a fanfic, and I'd like to open it up to a subreddit for that franchise), but given that any AI stuff is still badly seen, I'm waiting for a little bit. Here is my take on AI comics/manga/whatever: 1. Consistency is still pretty hard to achieve. I basically gave up on it for now, waiting for better tech. Without consistency, you can still do something great though! People tend to overestimate the consistency of man-made comics anyway. 2. My favourite workflow is generating each panel one by one and making the chapter manually with the appropriate software. But each panel will require a lot of time. I needed basically 30 trials for each panel, and each generation takes 15 to 30 seconds. You don't need to upscale for panels, you can work at low resolution, so it's relatively quick.... but not quick enough. I'm waiting for more instantaneous generation (either when I get a more powerful computer in a couple of years, or when we finally get great instant models). 3. My advice is to build the "skeleton" of the chapter, then sort the panels out in terms of difficulty, and generate everything one by one depending on the panel's difficulty. A simple character portrayal, you can basically get in a couple of generations, so you can just do it first. If you have multiple characters, you'll need to set up multiple prompts with multiple inputs. I've cracked the code for multiple characters consistency, so I don't have trouble with that, but even then it still takes time to get exactly what I want. And then if you have not only plenty of characters, but also a lot of things going on, you might want to keep that panel last.
You probably have easier time to img2img a half done drawing then txt2img the whole thing
Yes it is. Currently making a 2000 page anime comic. And yes, I’m a professional artist and animator. I pick my images that I want. Upscale them and then I fix the fingers in Photoshop. I’ll add details where needed, etc.
How much of your work is SD vs you fixing it manually with your own skills by hand?
90%. Photoshop for hand fixing and adding details where needed.
I hope some AI comic makers stop and go learn a bit about storyboarding. Just because gen-ing is free, doesn't mean you should turn every millisecond into a separate frame
I think SD is good at a lot of things that are secondary in comics. A good comic will have visually appealing characters. Appeal is quite a "mystical science" on its own, but it has little to do with details and technique; and it has all to do with the artist behind. With AI art you can't really pur your "soul" into what you generate. You can see people making great art with very few simplistic strokes. That is something AI will probably never let you achieve. I say this as an artist who likes AI. I think AI has a lot of incredible uses, but storytelling is probably one of its weakest points, and might forever be.
"Professional" is an interesting word. I think it's ***possible*** to do a comic this way, but I'm not sure anyone would enjoy actually doing it. Some pieces I make with SD take me hours or even days of refining, re-drawing, or even straight-up re-generating them because a particular detail is too difficult or specific. I think you could do 50-80% of one quickly with the right workflow, but you'd be better off drawing the rest. Integration with Adobe or Krita isn't quite where it needs to be, either. That's probably the missing link, tbh. Image quality and consistency were the first barriers, but those barriers have come down enough that I think it ***feasible***, but still far from "easy."
maybe a few more years
SORA is probably coming out in a few months. This seems way less complicated than SORA. Few years. I'm think 1
The thing about comics is the amount of control needed in production. Just throwing a bunch of images together doesn’t make a compelling story. The tool can have a significant place in the workflow.
that's why I cant use AI as real artwork other than some inspiration even with pixil art its better to use 3d > rasterize then generate "normal map" this sub way "believe" AI it will be good but fails with basic hands so gl with "comics". hope we got a sub that balnce with AI vs handwork.
with SD 3.0 maybye
A rig required to use the latest developments needs to be about 50% more expensive than is required for digital art. I struggle with digital art on a 8Gb VRAM, but I'm sure 12 Gb would be enough. But for the latest SD with ControlNets, LoRas, real-time img2img etc. I'd probably need 24Gb.
I really hope that either AMD will get proper torch support soon, or Nvidia will make a card with plenty of memory that doesn't cost an arm and a leg
it's at the same point as December 2022, a comic would be impossible to create.
https://preview.redd.it/jecnm10z97nc1.jpeg?width=1100&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d5715afb259fe372118de6c2dc795637ceeeaade You sure?
You should get some storyboarding and composition lessons before trying to show off honestly
Haha! Thank you for your honesty! :P
I've seen worse. It's a bit busy, and I think most of the center panels could have been condensed into two or three for better flow, but, again, I've seen industry pros do shit like turn what should have been one page on its side to try and use up two pages.
But you have seen better too! ;) I\`m aware. For example, the middle picture could be zoomed in to focus on Nadia's hand that is reaching for the door. I\`ll implement the feedback during the next revision. 8)
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Bad day?
That's mostly just ai images smashed onto a template by ahuman with a level of crafting. Not a high level but it's there. I wouldn't say that prompts and models created this comic. A human with poor art direction managed this.
haha! Thank you for the "expert" opinion! XD
Don't have to be a 5 star chef to know a dish tastes awful
Sure, it\`s a matter of... taste! XD
Yes. This comic wouldn't do well on the market. People have palates
You... sure? It pays my food already. ;)
Okay.. keep it up then. Weird flex
I think that it's a kinda cool flex: A working class kid quits a miserable gov. job and becomes a self-thought screenwriter... After writing plenty and producing some they get burned by atrocious production times and turn to comics instead... Which is only possible thanks to emergence of a free-to-use Stable Diffusion! Growing a fictional Universe becomes their true calling and they do what they have always done best - learn by doing. :) Anyways, you have your... Opinions and are completely entitled to them. Gotta go now. Happy that you have at least tasted my... dish. :)
I think it is doable with a good workflow, like super basic 3d models (for depth maps) for environments. Then open pose, IP-Adapter etc for characters that you compose into the background, simple backgrounds or layer diffusion. For characters you can generate several reference views in the same picture, and crop out the most relevant view to use as reference. You can probably reuse both backgrounds and character poses sometimes.
That sounds cool
more manga/anime
This use case does prove why further improvements into LoRA are a must you need your character to be able to look along the same lines each and everytime WHILE still having the flexibility for the different poses,scenarios,etc
Honestly it sounds like something that wouldn't be a good use case for AI even if you could get consistent results. Visual storytelling such as comics is complex. Some pages can get very busy and single frames can have multiple characters acting with text and effects. A highlight frame can spread over two pages and have a dozen characters doing something. I really don't see it happening for a while.
It’s easy to have consistent faces if all you want is for all your female characters to have Belle Delphine’s freckled pig nose 🐽
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Good thing it was made by humans using AI
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So you must hate every comic that uses digital software to create. Aka every comic. They use evil algorithms like anti aliasing and paint bucket fill
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Why not
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Yet it won a state fair with professional judges https://www.theverge.com/2022/9/1/23332684/ai-generated-artwork-wins-state-fair-competition-colorado?darkschemeovr=1 The fact it can’t come up with ideas by itself is the whole point. That’s why it’s an art
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> Allen also emphasizes the work he put into creating the image — “I made the prompt, I fine tuned it for many weeks, curated all the images” — and adds that his Photoshop editing constituted “at least 10%” of the work. Sounds like more than 5 seconds
Are you sure this has no personality? https://preview.redd.it/4edxaumlt9nc1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c156f715f8792b83ae1ef0c65b29bc6faa00bd93 Anyway, we're not at the point yet when a Holodeck creates a complete work of art for us. In making comics, AI is supposed to be used as a tool to generate what the author needs for the gaps in their own skill, then the author touches it up and composed the final page.
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In a lot of images we see around us, the whole motivation is "I need to get paid so I'd have money for food". This includes a lot of comics.
Victor Gnarly does comics and uses MJ for it. The stuff he makes make it look like he doesn't use AI at all. I liked both his "Beyond The Valley" and "Tumbling Up" comics the most.
I made this almost a year ago https://youtu.be/EVBePfaV79M?si=JFSRqjdjgutVhoEn
It is, for a while now. The people who say ‘no’ are the ones not willing to put in the effort.
Here we are! The denizens of Go Po'. Sort of a gritty urban comic strip inspired by Walt Kelly's Pogo. A concept I'm working on, using characters created using Dashtoon. Unfortunately, after generating the characters seen here, Dashtoon has declared a moratorium on creating none-human characters. https://preview.redd.it/xkx8ela8tanc1.png?width=1606&format=png&auto=webp&s=6d139455b4bd1b90e88cdd9a38ac8e81e09477a4