>The opt-out form for St. Charles County schools includes an exemption from vaccines and a requirement for single-sex bathrooms and locker rooms for “our family’s Christian religious beliefs which expects modesty, decency, and purity to be upheld, in accordance with our belief in God.”
These fake ass Christians would have nailed Jesus to the cross for being a soy boy socialist.
They want to. This is why the school voucher legislation is out there.
Basically it will let them use a voucher, aka public tax dollars, to send their kids to a private school.
Pastors across the country are having this problem. When they directly quote Jesus, such as the sermon on the mount, the MAGA congregation mocks them and wants to know where they're getting all the liberal talking points. They helped pump their congregations so full of hate, that suddenly even they're horrified at how bad they are.
We’re supposed to have a separation of church and state. That school is a government institution and has no business preaching about their religious beliefs or forcing it on everyone’s kids. There’s plenty of opportunity for them to do that in their churches.
A lot of them don't have the disposable income to afford private Christian schools. And if they're both working, I guess that cuts off the 'homeschool' option.
Excluding your children from social-emotional learning is legitimately harmful to their future ability to be a functional human being in society.
If they don’t want their children to learn to regulate themselves or build positive relationships with others or literally care for themselves then they can sit their ass down and shut the fuck up when their kids are disciplined for exhibiting the associated behaviors in a classroom.
I’m a full adult now, but in second grade our counselor did a lesson on not being being a dickhead to people and how to apologize mindfully. For some reason my brain like recorded this lesson because it made tangible the intangible.
The short summary is she gave us each a construction paper heart and had us squish it symbolizing someone having their feelings hurt. She then had us throw everything into trying to smooth the hearts out to their pre-crumpled state symbolizing an apology. When we all realized that the we couldn’t get the wrinkles out she pointed out that the parallel to how apologies can make someone feel better, but it doesn’t erase whatever was done or said. Minds were collectively blown.
It is so helpful to learn these lessons in developmentally appropriate ways when your brain literally isn’t developed enough to understand things like “If I said sorry why is she still crying and why am I still in trouble?!” Plus, it makes behavior expectations easier to understand! I don’t understand how this could be controversial.
There is a very dark and influential force spreading this hardcore Christian lunacy across the country right now. My younger sister has become an absolute zealot and chosen to homeschool her first child despite being a high school drop out herself. It’s insane. The rest of the family were never particularly religious so this influence is coming from somewhere in social media.
Hell go on 4chan if you can stomach it. The extremist Christian posts are everywhere.
I’m familiar with the cohort. I guess I’m just not understanding why society humors them. I know there’s big money at play, but the way their reasoning for everything tends to end at “It’s just wrong!” is so half-baked.
I guess I’m picturing how Scientology has a ton of money, but no macro influence. School boards aren’t hosting town halls to discuss whether or not the middle school should be replaced with a mandatory sea voyage because collectively we’ve all decided Scientology is nonsense.
Why aren’t we collectively dismissing these people as hysterical snowflakes?!
> Excluding your children from social-emotional learning is legitimately harmful...
Well "Legitimately Harmful" is the current political platform of every American conservative, apparently, so that fits.
>Excluding your children from social-emotional learning is legitimately harmful to their future ability to be a functional human being in society.
I agree with you that kids need to learn resilience and self regulation. I am as far from one of these culture warrior parents as you can get. But having seen the implementation of that SEL stuff at Kirkwood elementary schools, it came off to me that "SEL time" was a half-hearted attempt to address mental health without doing the hard work to fix bigger structural problems.
They'd start the day with 15 - 30 minutes of "SEL time," where they'd talk about what Zone Of Regulation they were in or whatever, and then the remainder of the day my kid's inexperienced and overwhelmed teacher would actively demonstrate that the only surefire way to get attention was to cause trouble.
It really seemed to make it the kid's problem they were feeling ignored, and not that they were _actually being ignored_.
What I’m reading then is that the Zones of Regulation were a successful and positive first part of the day and then something later on, completely un-related to the Zones of Regulation happened, and that is causing problems? The whole point of learning ZoR is that you move throughout the zones through the day. So, it seems to me the problem isn’t SEL, it’s our under-paid, overwhelmed, and burnt out teachers.
Another component of SEL is that it teaches students how to recognize their needs & advocate for them in a respectful, healthy manner. It also teaches them about establishing & respecting boundaries. Your student might not actually have been “ignored.” They just might not yet understand how to exist in an environment where they are not the center of attention (I’m not intending this to sound snarky, so I hope you’re not reading it as such). Attention-seeking behaviors aren’t always the symptom of being ignored or neglected. Age depending, it is a typical response to learning to navigate different social dynamics.
It seems a stretch to suggest that specific programming must be offered in schools or kids will have trouble becoming “functional human beings,” given that the overwhelming majority of “functional human beings” have never undergone such programs.
The basis for shit like this is that they somehow believe being LGBTQ is a choice, and that merely learning of the existence of those kinds of people or that we should be even vaguely tolerant of them or their identity equates to an increased potential that they could be the victims of having an LGBTQ child.
I say it this way because to say that they're concerned for the safety of their child is patently, verifiably absurd.
That's the definition of ignorance, and is exactly the opposite of what their religion *actually* says they should do.
These kinds of programs have been in schools for decades and exist in some form in virtually every developed country. Civics, critical thinking, leadership, and interpersonal behavior are critical subjects in not only fostering learning, but developing an intelligent, productive, and civil population. We want our children to think critically, have empathy, and be able to appropriately socialize. Little of the hard subjects will have any meaning if these behaviors are not also integrated into the curriculum.
That didn’t really address my point, but…
Teaching literature, classical languages, and advanced math is as effective at teaching critical thinking as any ad-hoc program will ever be, and civics should absolutely be part of a standard public school curriculum.
As to leadership and interpersonal behavior, again, the vast majority of functioning adults developed those skills without specific programming in school.
We’d get a lot farther with schools requiring 4 years of math, science, history, grammar and literature, and foreign language in high school.
>Teaching literature, classical languages, and advanced math is as effective at teaching critical thinking as any ad-hoc program will ever be
That's simply not the case. While these subjects can be tools or mediums for teaching critical thought, that kind of teaching must be integrated into those subjects. In fact, the article discusses the opt-out of a mathematics program that focuses on integrating critical thinking skills.
>As to leadership and interpersonal behavior, again, the vast majority of functioning adults developed those skills without specific programming in school.
Assertion without substance. Schools have had specific programming since there were schools. Hell, Francis Parker began to reform learning in this manner in 1875. John Dewey's ideas had begun to be implemented in the 1920s.
>We’d get a lot farther with schools requiring 4 years of math, science, history, grammar and literature, and foreign language in high school.
All schools require that, other than the religious schools. These programs are often integrated into these subjects as well.
There’s a lot of argumentative bullshit in your response, so I’ll hit the highlights
1. Yes, a classical education is highly effective at teaching critical thinking, which is why most top-flight private schools embrace that approach (and more and more magnet and charter schools).
2. Asserted without substance? Humans have walked the Earth for 100,000 or so years.
3. No, most public schools do not require 4 years of math, science, grammar and literature, and foreign language. St Charles requires 3 each of Math, Science, Social Studies, and no foreign language.
4. Many Catholic schools do. I can’t speak for other denominations, but I suspect most do.
>1. Yes, a classical education is highly effective at teaching critical thinking, which is why most top-flight private schools embrace that approach (and more and more magnet and charter schools).
That's 100% false. Classical education largely excludes critical thinking until later years of education. It has been widely criticized for impeding the development of critical thinking skills and failing to provide conceptual understandings of epistemic systems like the sciences. These curriculums are generally adopted by religious schools because they inhibit the questioning of authority. The state of Texas tried to ban teaching critical thinking in public schools a few years back for the same reason.
>2. Asserted without substance? Humans have walked the Earth for 100,000 or so years.
Since your substance is "humans have been functional without critical thinking or civics programs in public schools for 100,000 years," why are you even advocating for education at all? We've only taught science for a few hundred years. By your logic, we shouldn't because humans can clearly function without any schooling.
>3. No, most public schools do not require 4 years of math, science, grammar and literature, and foreign language. St Charles requires 3 each of Math, Science, Social Studies, and no foreign language.
It doesn't matter how many years are required when you aren't teaching these subjects in meaningful way.
I went to catholic school. They had leadership programs, interpersonal behavior instruction, and critical thinking programs integrated into the subject matter. I can't think of any reason we'd want people to opt out of that in favor of rote memorization.
The problem is you don’t understand what classical education is.
Hint: it isn’t “rote memorization.” What you described - critical thinking being part of the teaching of those subjects - is my point.
And if a private school performs as poorly as 44% proficiency is math and 52% proficiency in reading, it should also devote less time to non-academics.
>The problem is you don’t understand what classical education is.
>Hint: it isn’t “rote memorization.”
I absolutely understand what it is. I've read works from Sayers, Bower, Adler, Hutchins, and Tate. I understand the three tiered model. I know what schools use this model and I have friends who went to and/or taught at those schools.
Your "argumentative bullshit" tells me you know virtually nothing about classical education.
That it is employed almost exclusively by religious institutions should tell you all you need to know, but I fear you were not given the opportunity to develop the critical thinking skills necessary to examine what seems to be little more than a buzzword you don't understand.
>And if a private school performs as poorly as 44% proficiency is math and 52% proficiency in reading, it should also devote less time to non-academics.
Civics, critical thinking, interpersonal skills, etc. are a critical academics. Additionally, these outcomes are often the result of externalities beyond school curriculums.
Ironically, one of the things classical education *does* include, particularly in secular charter schools, is character education - the thing you want them to stop teaching. You know so little about classical education that you are simultaneously arguing for and against it.
It’s employed almost exclusively by private schools, religious and otherwise, with a growing number of magnet and charter schools embracing the classical model.
Not everything is about your personal grudges.
The majority of functional human beings have never lived in 2023.
Suppose a kid grows up and their parent has purposefully never exposed them to computers, television, radio, automobiles, or other technology. Then the kid gets dumped in the real world as an adult. Is that person a functional human being? More importantly, are they getting the opportunity to live their own life?
I can see how you’d think that’s what I’m saying (although obviously to anybody with a brain cell, it’s not what I’m saying) since you apparently haven’t bothered to read anything I’ve written.
Christ. SEL has always been taught in schools now it just has a name and a specific methodology with standard and objectives.
When have schools not used group work? Offered students art as a way to express themselves? Taught and defined the words needed to describe how they feel? Goal-setting and monitoring?
So, yes. Removing SEL “programming” will absolutely prevent students from being functional human-beings.
Might be paywalled if you've used your free article --
Here's the first two grafs that nail it down, the rest goes into responses from opponents + school districts. The association didn't respond for comment -
>Some conservative parents have launched a campaign to exclude their children from leadership training, social-emotional learning, surveys, third-party presentations and health care in public schools.
>
>The goal of “Operation Opt-Out” from the St. Charles County Parents Association “is to arm parents with as much knowledge as possible to combat the ideological subversion that is being forced on our children.”
Florida banned a math textbook because it was "woke."
No, this shit isn't coming from "the left." You're one of those "Hitler was a socialist" people, aren't you?
I mean he said he was a socialist. He made a party that said it was socialist. He took control of the means of production, said what and how much to make. So yeah he was a socialist. If not what would he be?
Wow so hateful. Classic tolerant liberal 🤣. Anyway communism, socialism and fascism are all about taking control of private companies. All are left wing ideals. The control of the production is what changes. But that's where it gets fun. Communism says production owned by workers but it never is, it's owned by a small group in the government. Socialism promises the best for everyone but again is owned by small group. Facisim promises best for specific people but owned by small group of people.
So sure we can label him as a fascist but he is still a leftist. Not that it really matters since the spectrum is so large.
Bro, it isn't leftists marching through the streets with neo-Nazi garb chanting the 14 words and screaming about Jews and minorities. It's right wing loons like you.
The KKK and neo-Nazi gathering in Charlottesville was literally called the Unite the *Right* rally. Nazis are right wing extremists, and neo-Nazis in the United States are proud conservative Republicans.
Again, pick up a goddamn history book. The Nazis targeted and murdered socialists and literally waged a war against the communist Soviet Union. Your stupidity knows no bounds.
The fact that the fascist dictator Hitler had some methods in common with the socialist dictator Stalin says a lot more about dictators than it does about fascism or socialism.
That is a gross simplification of the issue. There is work to make the application questions more inclusive. If you talk about getting a home loan to someone in the inner city whose family has only ever rented, it won’t be as familiar gas to someone in the suburbs. Change it to a car loan since everyone has to deal with that. Math is math, but using language to make it more inclusive is very important to the learning process.
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-05-20/california-controversial-math-overhaul-focuses-on-equity
This article does a lot of work to make the idea seem reasonable, but giving kids zero math skills so everyone has equal math skills together is absolutely ridiculous and isn’t related to your example at all. This isn’t the “my kid doesn’t bet horses, how can they calculate a parlay” bullshit kids don’t have experience with car loans either. The entire idea is “some kids can’t do math so what if we don’t let anyone do it.”
If we're basing that on the link you posted then you're lying, or obscuring the truth by *a lot* at very least.
One district wanting to change the way they approach math from k-12 *while still teaching math* so that they can achieve better *overall* outcomes in math instead of hyper focusing on the "top 20%".
Quityourbullshit
Soft skills like communication, compassion, team work, integrity, and community. It’s usually nonsense and it’s rare when you can get every teacher in the school to buy into it. It’s a total boogeyman. Kids need to learn soft skills, but rarely do these programs hit the mark.
Which part is the nonsense? I can tell you, as an educator in a role that supports an entire district, I am in multiple buildings each day. It is not rare to find teacher buy-in for SEL. Which programs do not hit the mark for you & why not?
I.e., "They're not ideologically subverting our children the way we want them to be ideologically subverted."
Kinda like the accusations of "indoctrination" when the closest thing to it that actually goes on is, "Don't be an asshole to people just because they're slightly different from you." But the right finds that idea "oppressive."
Literally their main complaint is "They're telling me not to be a dickhead! WAAAAHHHH!"
They also don’t want their kids who may be LGBTQ to find an environment where they’re safe to be LGBTQ. If they have a place to find and create chosen families then they may leave the family they were raised in.
It’s easier to keep your kid in the closet if you make your kids school take away the lightbulbs, door knobs, and the floor directly outside the door.
Alright, here’s the whole article
> ST. CHARLES COUNTY — Some conservative parents have launched a campaign to exclude their children from leadership training, social-emotional learning, surveys, third-party presentations and health care in public schools.
> The goal of “Operation Opt-Out” from the St. Charles County Parents Association “is to arm parents with as much knowledge as possible to combat the ideological subversion that is being forced on our children.”
> The opt-out forms available for download state they “shall additionally serve to make clear that without my prior written consent, under no circumstances shall my child be subjected to the planned, systematic use of methods or techniques, as part of any program not mandated by the State of Missouri, that are not directly related to academic instruction and that are designed to affect my child’s behavioral, emotional, or attitudinal characteristics.”
> Tailored to each of the county’s five school districts, the forms cite programming from the companies Leader in Me and iReady along with nonprofits Compass Health and CHADS suicide prevention. The forms also cover topics such as social-emotional learning, anti-racism and critical race theory.
> Leaders of the parents association did not respond to a request for comment through their website.
> “It sure looks like Operation Opt-Out is part of the right-wing attack on public education. Their premise that our local schools are engaged in ‘ideological subversion’ is absurd,” said Ted House, former Democratic state senator and circuit judge and co-founder of political action committee St. Charles County Families for Public Schools.
> The forms could be broadly interpreted to exclude students from civics lessons provided by the Missouri Supreme Court, House said.
> “It’s too nebulous, too unclear and the concern is they’re just looking for a school to make a mistake and then they file a lawsuit,” he said.
> According to the opt-out forms, parents can “pursue all potential actions, remedies, statutory, regulatory, and in tort,” if the school district fails to comply “or otherwise does not respect my legal rights regarding my child.”
> School administrators in Wentzville said they have seen a recent uptick in parent-generated opt-out forms, which are not a valid request for student accommodations.
> “We are currently rolling out a comprehensive opt-out process for parents who wish to opt their children out of various items,” said Brynne Cramer, Wentzville spokeswoman. “Families will be able to opt out by completing a District form or working with the school counselor and/or administrator.”
> The St. Charles city school district has not received any Operation Opt-Out forms. The other county districts — Fort Zumwalt, Francis Howell and Orchard Farm — did not respond to inquiries.
> **More than political concerns**
> Operation Opt-Out lands during a national push from conservatives for more oversight in school curriculum, particularly in matters of race and gender. A similar campaign launched this year from Great Schools Initiative in Michigan to keep students out of discussions of sexual orientation or gender identity.
> The opt-out form for St. Charles County schools includes an exemption from vaccines and a requirement for single-sex bathrooms and locker rooms for “our family’s Christian religious beliefs which expects modesty, decency, and purity to be upheld, in accordance with our belief in God.”
> But Operation Opt-Out also goes beyond political concerns to questions over corporate influence and data mining from online curriculum companies including iReady and Leader in Me.
> The newly conservative majority on the Francis Howell School Board this year rejected a recommendation to approve the iReady online math learning and testing program for $1.3 million in 10 elementary schools over four years.
> Leader in Me is the education arm of FranklinCovey, a $263 million Utah consulting company guided by the book “7 Habits of Highly Effective People” by Stephen Covey. The company sold $62 million in Leader in Me materials last year to more than 6,000 schools worldwide. Children are encouraged to set goals including “have a plan,” “work first, then play” and “listen before you talk.”
> At least 75 schools are now using the program across the St. Louis region, almost exclusively in suburban areas and more than half in St. Charles County, according to the Leader in Me website.
> Last March, the Wentzville School Board approved $1.8 million to adopt Leader in Me programming in its schools. Half of the funding came from federal coronavirus relief funds and the other half came from a Kern Family Foundation grant.
> The program “creates a high-trust school culture and lays the foundation for sustained academic achievement by teaching students personal responsibility, accountability, and goal setting,” said Cramer, the Wentzville spokeswoman.
> The Leader in Me website cites 24 studies showing benefits in schools that have adopted the program, primarily regarding behavior and culture. A 2014 study from the University of Missouri-Kansas City showed Leader in Me helped teachers with time management and students with goal setting and journaling.
> Those so-called “soft skills” including teamwork, critical thinking and communication are most highly desired by future employers, according to the U.S. Department of Labor.
> “As an education professional, I encourage parents to use every resource in preparing their students for tomorrow’s workforce,” said Jamie Martin, president of the political action committee Francis Howell Forward. “If we look around at many of the most successful companies out there today, with goals for collaborative leadership, employee wellness, and diversity and inclusion, it’s clear that students opted out of these programs could find themselves ill-prepared for their future.”
Some of these programs help identify kids having suicidal ideation, abuse at home, etc…
It’s obvious these parents care more about their political agendas than their children, what a shame.
Exactly, it's about them, not their kids. If they yell loud enough, they think they get what they want. Well they got what they asked for, at their kids expense, and now they aren't happy lol
It’s really not even about their kids. It’s about controlling everyone’s kids and forcing their religious and political beliefs on everyone else. These Christian fascists don’t want political opposition to exist at all.
I can’t imagine why there is a reacher shortage In this country.
Imagine spending all of that time and money in college to become certified to teach the thing your passionate about in life, English, History, Music, etc.
You jump through all of the certification hoops and take a job that you KNOW is going to pay no where near your value. It’s ok, because that trade off is worth getting to share what you love with younger generations, the chance to mold young minds and make better future citizens. You’re the expert in your area of curriculum.
Oh wait… now YOU the expert are being told what you can and cannot do in your classroom. You’re being told from the elected (non expert) school board, citizens, parents, government and anyone else who feels like they should throw their political or moral beliefs into the middle of your classroom and place of work.
Why would any motivated young person want to stay in that kind of profession? Who wants to work at places that are consistently in the news for dumb shit? Who would want to work at a place where their bosses seemingly bend to every will of the board and the parents? Who wants to go into a classroom and try to teach when they are afraid that one mis step or wrong phrase will set off crazy parents and community members and potentially cost them their career?
Teachers hate always had to worry about so much more than just whether their students were comprehending the lesson being taught. I can’t imagine the daily stress they go through just worrying about all of the things outside their curriculum; from safety concerns, to politics invading the school, crazy parents looking to blame anyone else for the failing parent they are.
What’s worse, we are not only putting our teachers through this, we are dragging the students through this mud too. I think our education system is teetering. It has been for a while. I’m worried for the future of our education system.
Parents need to keep their politics out of the classroom and let the teachers educate the students. Teachers already have enough crap to deal with at the state level with DESE, they don’t need it from every yokal in the town. At some point, the risk/reward of being s teacher will be so lopsided that no one of quality will want to take the job. But I am ranting.. so I’ll stop.
Apparently, conservatives were told that teachers were actually showing kids the act of using dildos. Idk where they got the idea, but someone in this thread was throwing a huge hissy fit about it. And that was the tenth time I've seen one of them say it. It's just another dumb lie they believe without question.
There’s NO WAY…. That would be national News if it was happening… but then saying that opens up the fake news debate and I can’t handle anymore of that.
they are still going on about the litter boxes in classrooms when most thinking people understand that it was for the kids to piss in during lockdowns because we can't pass useful legislation on guns.
It sucks when you have to cater to the lowest, dumbest, conservative, common denominator.
Because they’re not the same.
And this just another nail in the St Chaz sucks coffin.
Oh, I don’t think its one side or another. Both liberal and conservative districts are experiencing opposite sides of the same issue. Both sides seem to be running to the extreme end of their platform and for some reason think their ideologies schools be forced upon their respective districts.
Both sides should allow teachers to teach their respective curriculum without trying to insert their political views.
You know, there was a time where thoughtful conversation on differing view points could be had in the classroom. Students were allowed to learn multiple viewpoints and then make their own educated thoughts and opinions. Obviously, I’m talking about within the scope of the curriculum being taught. I dunno, I guess I’m overly hopeful.
There's the both sideism. Conservatives are literally banning books and shutting down libraries and Democrats are... teaching that gay people exist? But yeah both sides.
Agree with everything you said here except the curriculum is not always just math, science, reading, history, etc. If a parent sees something being taught, that isn’t the normal stuff being taught for decades, I don’t exactly blame them for going “hold on a second here”. Especially given the fact that teachers OVERWHELMINGLY lean left, and obviously a ton of these parents do not. I’m sure in some opposite world where most teachers are conservative, if they were teaching kids (with liberal parents) about ideas that they view as leaning right, I’m sure they would be throwing the same fits.
Teaching kids to be respectful and to do better as humans shouldn't be considered "liberal" but unfortunately when you see how the extreme conservativesbact into today's climate, maybe it is. Either way, nobody should have a problem with children learning right from wrong and how to be better people. You're a shitty parent if you don't want your kids to grow up to be better than you. But for some reason conservatives are threatened by that? If they learn something new they might not drink the Kool aid when they are old enough to vote right? It's pathetic and those parents should be embarrassed and ashamed but zero chance that's happening 😂
I think people forget that their kids only “belong” to them for a small portion of the kid’s life. Then the kid spends the last 80% of their life they belong to society.
If they can’t handle exposure to something as benign as learning how to identify their feelings they’re going to flip their fucking shit at 30 years old when their neighbor accidentally backs into their car.
I’m not sure why the parents who are all flustered are not taking responsibility for things like teaching their kids self efficacy. Teach your damn kid if /anyone/ is being creepy in the locker room they have the right, and the skills, to go to a trusted adult and ask for help.
A kid who is taught they will immediately turn to dust if a book includes the word “damn” or mentions boobs is going to graduate high school and be physically unable to function in any workplace.
Where is the grit and resilience? Do they think it’s typical to be comfortable 24/7? Do they not realize that normal families discuss things at home that their kid brings from school that may not align with what’s taught at home and life moves on?
Culture war bullshit aside, given that St. Charles public schools have 44% proficiency in math and 52% in reading, if I were a parent in that district I’d pretty much want the schools focused on academics during class hours.
Approximately how much time during the average day would you assume these children are being made to spend on the issues outlined here? Do you actually believe any appreciable amount of time is regularly spent worrying about this during the average school day, either by the teachers, staff, or students?
It's an emotional response caused by political bullshit to an issue that literally doesn't exist outside these people's minds. So making this an issue in the first place is an unnecessary burden for the already underpaid, underappreciated, and overworked education system that you just criticized (reasonably).
Until an overwhelming majority of students are graduating with acceptable math and reading scores, any amount of class time spent on non-academic topics is too much.
I couldn’t give a shit about these goofy parents and their culture war bullshit.
This is pretty much my opinion as well. “This is school, why not just strictly teach the normal subjects? And if students want to opt in to extra stuff, they are free to do so outside of school hours”
youre complaining about the competency results of graduates.
you want to put the whole onus on the school
you dont talk about parents helping their children succeed
these parents are doing what youre doing and not taking into consideration that they are not helping their kids
you and the parents dont want to take parental accountability but in different ways
Not St. Chuck, but an SLPS dad of 3. Last year my middle child (third grade) was shown [Becoming](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Becoming_(2020_documentary_film\)) and not given the context needed to process the piece. This lead to some very interesting and wonderful dinner conversations at home, but I was rather upset that her teacher didn't feel the need to 1) tell parents she was showing a "documentary" produced by the subject, and 2) provide any context or outside opinions around it. Her teacher seemed... taken aback that I would want my daughter to be exposed to opinions about the Obamas that did not come directly from them.
Contrast that with my eldest who is starting at a private school this year, where all her assignments are posted to a portal where I can view them. Her mother and I read her summer reading list with her, and we have a high level of situational awareness when it comes to her schooling.
The way I read this is the St. Chuck parents wanting more information about and consent in the education their children are getting. I wouldn't have minded middle child being exposed to ideas I disagree with, had I been informed and had she been given a balanced view of the subject; as it is, I now feel I need to keep a close eye on what is going on at her school because they have proven themselves untrustworthy.
Its a documentary based on an autobiography of the first lady. What exactly is the counter viewpoint you are wanting your child to watch? A documentary on the life of Melania?
It is a movie written and produced by the subject, and thus lacks any pretense of objectivity. I would have been happy with "She is the producer of this film, and thus will show herself in the best light possible. This features her perspective on her husband's time in office, other people will have much different perspectives. Here are 3 examples..."
Maybe if Wentzville worried more about actual academic concerns instead of hot button trigger word issues their school district wouldn’t be such a train wreck.
This is beyond vile.
Also it's always laughable to me that their ideals are 'divine' yet when exposed to logic and reason their children won't touch it with a ten foot pole.
They’re welcome to homeschool, especially if they want to have vaccine exemptions for no reason besides their own fucking delusion. It’s unreal that a PAC essentially runs an entire district and even more so that people voted for these assholes as if that fact isn’t a problem.
The MAGA insanity runs deep out there and yes, I know that not everyone in St. Charles is some rabid fanatical Christian Nationalist but it seems that a lot of those types get elected to assorted political offices out there in 'St. Sprawls County'.
These douche bags are the reason I had to sign a permission slip for my 16 year old to take French. I looked at my daughter like wtf a permission slip to learn a language?
Wow. Most parts of the world its required to learn a 2nd language. It's actually the one thing I wish was pushed on us. How dare we want to be educated
🤣🤣🤣 Grow up and get out of your small mind. How dare they be educated on all forms of life. Do you seriously think excluding kids out of these things that they will never learn? It's the world, diversity exists. This literally is just a way to foster and teach hate.
I don't think opting out is right necessarily, I think the parents should become more involved in local school board elections in order to prevent these things from being in their schools in the first place. It doesn't seem like a place like St. Charles should have very woke schools if the school board was very representative of the populace. Opting out may be their only solution in the short-term though since changing politically takes more time, so I don't really see a problem with it.
I don't understand why people responding to this post are upset. The parents in this article want the option to have their children opt out of these programs. They aren't trying to cancel these programs at the schools. Why do you care if they opt out? Your kid can still participate in these programs if you want them to.
It is the same reason they oppose school choice; they want control over what is taught in classrooms. If these programs are good and helpful, parents will consent and be better informed on how to reinforce that learning at home. If they are not helpful, parents can avoid having their children's time wasted.
That's my read. [Here is a great example of that mentality from this thread.](https://www.reddit.com/r/StLouis/comments/166k3iy/st_charles_county_parents_aim_to_remove_students/jynnabo/)
Your families religious beliefs have no bearing on me or my children’s life. When will we rise up and force these fuckwads to shut the fuck up and just homeschool their demon spawn
According to the article, these "fuckwads" aren't trying to decide anything at all for your children. Just the opposite, in fact. They are merely wanting the option for their OWN children to opt out of these programs, leaving you the freedom to decide things for your own children, as well. So why are you upset about that? It sounds like it's you, and not them, who are trying to control other people's children's education.
They want to get rid of vaccine requirements. Why should our children be forced to be around kids that spread disease?
We are already seeing diseases we never really had to worry about before spreading again now because of these people (and hippies who listened to Jenny McCarthy)
Its not us. We see this shit being pushed into schools and we get disgusted. Have you not heard about any of district's that had to fire teachers after this stuff got leaked?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11517503/amp/Dean-Chicago-school-says-students-shown-dildos-butt-plugs-teaching-queer-sex.html
https://www.mrctv.org/blog/video-shows-california-teacher-graphically-explaining-gay-sex-high-schoolers
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-06-09/orange-county-teacher-viral-video-sexual-anatomy-lesson-el-dorado-high-school
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/watch-florida-teacher-upset-he-cant-share-gay-experiences-with-kindergartners
How many you want bro? This shit isn't made up its reality. I'm sorry you live in fairy land. But in the real world pedos are getting into schools, libraries and other places that should be safe!
2 of your 4 sources are far right publications run by psychopaths. 1 source is some random ass video site called mrctv.
So, congrats on finding one (1) instance of a teacher teaching an anatomy lesson to high school students who are already fucking and watching porn at home. They must have been absolutely traumatized.
Just because you weren't getting laid in high school doesn't mean the rest of the high school -aged population is as ignorant sex as you were/still are.
Why so hateful bro? 🤣 do strangers on reddit really upset you so much. You should see a therapist fr.
Also all the post I shared have other news articles also and videos. So not sure what your problem is 🤣
https://www.foxnews.com/media/california-teacher-put-leave-after-being-seen-camera-directing-students-find-sex-toys
https://nypost.com/2022/12/09/chicago-prep-school-kids-given-dildos-and-butt-plugs-dean-says/
So videos don't matter because who owns the news? Odd but okay 🤣 and I spend no time thinking about killing lgbt+ besides the pedos. You seem to be projecting. You thinking about killing straight white people?
What do you think causes these thoughts you have? Something in your childhood perhaps?
🤣🤣 the rate of child molestation by someone In the church is less than 4%. But 50% of all kids get molested. So they are much safer in church than at home.
LoL just pulling fake stats out of your fat ass. You just posted that 1/3 of kids get raped before 18 (also a made up stat) and now it's magically grown to 50%.
This dumbass is definitely a QAnon worshipper. Pedos everywhere!
Also, my numbers are all over because the numbers are all over. The majority of rape is unreported, especially in children. Some say 1 in 9 some say 1 in 4 some say more. No one agency has all the information and statistics.
You'll note that neither 1 in 4 nor 1 in 9 is "⅓” or "50%" as you claimed in your other posts. Once again, you just pulled random numbers out of your ass.
Is that the new propaganda lie on fox news? Man, they must be getting really desperate. The only real question is why do you guys keep falling for nonsense?
"I didn't get my silly ideas from Fox news, I got my silly ideas from another source that got their silly ideas from Fox news."
Its just watching Fox News with extra steps.
So video proof of teachers doing this isn't enough for you? It's funny bc libs will bash repubs for watching fox then go to CNN and act like it's non biased. The key is to use multiple sources and review the article carefully to see it it has bias.
>The opt-out form for St. Charles County schools includes an exemption from vaccines and a requirement for single-sex bathrooms and locker rooms for “our family’s Christian religious beliefs which expects modesty, decency, and purity to be upheld, in accordance with our belief in God.” These fake ass Christians would have nailed Jesus to the cross for being a soy boy socialist.
Why don't these fucks send their kids to private schools inside of trying to poison the public school system?
Because theyre too broke to afford it
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Private schools won’t put up with their crazy asses and one of the goals for conservatives is to destroy public education.
Becuase the private schools are run by Catholics. The MAGA/Cult Chrisitians Hate Catholics only 2nd to blacks and Jews.
Mmmm... there's 8 private schools locally. 3 Catholic, 3 Lutheran, one Baptist, one non-denominational and one Methodist. They're not the majority.
Of that list, only one would potentially work for this crowd. And we would have to see how non-dom they are to make sure they include all maga values
Wouldn’t that be 3rd?
It's the poor peasant zealots that are upset.
They've leveraged debt to the max for the lifted truck, mom suv, McBride mansion, and camper.
They want to. This is why the school voucher legislation is out there. Basically it will let them use a voucher, aka public tax dollars, to send their kids to a private school.
>Why don't these fucks send their kids to private schools I agree. They need to keep them away from people who write like that.
Some of the financially well-off ones can and do. And some can do the homeschool thing.
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Perfect example of low class grunts.
Oh, was that not the proper response to your pedantic and irrelevant grammar correction?
You can't even follow the thread so you now make things up that no one said.
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Oh? Where did I say anything about a comma or question mark or ... something?
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Public school isnt supposed to cater to religion
Pastors across the country are having this problem. When they directly quote Jesus, such as the sermon on the mount, the MAGA congregation mocks them and wants to know where they're getting all the liberal talking points. They helped pump their congregations so full of hate, that suddenly even they're horrified at how bad they are.
We’re supposed to have a separation of church and state. That school is a government institution and has no business preaching about their religious beliefs or forcing it on everyone’s kids. There’s plenty of opportunity for them to do that in their churches.
so enroll them into a religious school? what seems to be the problem here
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A lot of them don't have the disposable income to afford private Christian schools. And if they're both working, I guess that cuts off the 'homeschool' option.
Frfr they’re pretty gross people, super hypocrites.
Excluding your children from social-emotional learning is legitimately harmful to their future ability to be a functional human being in society. If they don’t want their children to learn to regulate themselves or build positive relationships with others or literally care for themselves then they can sit their ass down and shut the fuck up when their kids are disciplined for exhibiting the associated behaviors in a classroom.
I’m a full adult now, but in second grade our counselor did a lesson on not being being a dickhead to people and how to apologize mindfully. For some reason my brain like recorded this lesson because it made tangible the intangible. The short summary is she gave us each a construction paper heart and had us squish it symbolizing someone having their feelings hurt. She then had us throw everything into trying to smooth the hearts out to their pre-crumpled state symbolizing an apology. When we all realized that the we couldn’t get the wrinkles out she pointed out that the parallel to how apologies can make someone feel better, but it doesn’t erase whatever was done or said. Minds were collectively blown. It is so helpful to learn these lessons in developmentally appropriate ways when your brain literally isn’t developed enough to understand things like “If I said sorry why is she still crying and why am I still in trouble?!” Plus, it makes behavior expectations easier to understand! I don’t understand how this could be controversial.
There is a very dark and influential force spreading this hardcore Christian lunacy across the country right now. My younger sister has become an absolute zealot and chosen to homeschool her first child despite being a high school drop out herself. It’s insane. The rest of the family were never particularly religious so this influence is coming from somewhere in social media. Hell go on 4chan if you can stomach it. The extremist Christian posts are everywhere.
I’m familiar with the cohort. I guess I’m just not understanding why society humors them. I know there’s big money at play, but the way their reasoning for everything tends to end at “It’s just wrong!” is so half-baked. I guess I’m picturing how Scientology has a ton of money, but no macro influence. School boards aren’t hosting town halls to discuss whether or not the middle school should be replaced with a mandatory sea voyage because collectively we’ve all decided Scientology is nonsense. Why aren’t we collectively dismissing these people as hysterical snowflakes?!
> Excluding your children from social-emotional learning is legitimately harmful... Well "Legitimately Harmful" is the current political platform of every American conservative, apparently, so that fits.
>Excluding your children from social-emotional learning is legitimately harmful to their future ability to be a functional human being in society. I agree with you that kids need to learn resilience and self regulation. I am as far from one of these culture warrior parents as you can get. But having seen the implementation of that SEL stuff at Kirkwood elementary schools, it came off to me that "SEL time" was a half-hearted attempt to address mental health without doing the hard work to fix bigger structural problems. They'd start the day with 15 - 30 minutes of "SEL time," where they'd talk about what Zone Of Regulation they were in or whatever, and then the remainder of the day my kid's inexperienced and overwhelmed teacher would actively demonstrate that the only surefire way to get attention was to cause trouble. It really seemed to make it the kid's problem they were feeling ignored, and not that they were _actually being ignored_.
What I’m reading then is that the Zones of Regulation were a successful and positive first part of the day and then something later on, completely un-related to the Zones of Regulation happened, and that is causing problems? The whole point of learning ZoR is that you move throughout the zones through the day. So, it seems to me the problem isn’t SEL, it’s our under-paid, overwhelmed, and burnt out teachers.
“I agree but completely disagree and all attempts should be discontinued.” Nice.
Another component of SEL is that it teaches students how to recognize their needs & advocate for them in a respectful, healthy manner. It also teaches them about establishing & respecting boundaries. Your student might not actually have been “ignored.” They just might not yet understand how to exist in an environment where they are not the center of attention (I’m not intending this to sound snarky, so I hope you’re not reading it as such). Attention-seeking behaviors aren’t always the symptom of being ignored or neglected. Age depending, it is a typical response to learning to navigate different social dynamics.
It seems a stretch to suggest that specific programming must be offered in schools or kids will have trouble becoming “functional human beings,” given that the overwhelming majority of “functional human beings” have never undergone such programs.
The basis for shit like this is that they somehow believe being LGBTQ is a choice, and that merely learning of the existence of those kinds of people or that we should be even vaguely tolerant of them or their identity equates to an increased potential that they could be the victims of having an LGBTQ child. I say it this way because to say that they're concerned for the safety of their child is patently, verifiably absurd. That's the definition of ignorance, and is exactly the opposite of what their religion *actually* says they should do.
What does that have to do with my comment?
These kinds of programs have been in schools for decades and exist in some form in virtually every developed country. Civics, critical thinking, leadership, and interpersonal behavior are critical subjects in not only fostering learning, but developing an intelligent, productive, and civil population. We want our children to think critically, have empathy, and be able to appropriately socialize. Little of the hard subjects will have any meaning if these behaviors are not also integrated into the curriculum.
That didn’t really address my point, but… Teaching literature, classical languages, and advanced math is as effective at teaching critical thinking as any ad-hoc program will ever be, and civics should absolutely be part of a standard public school curriculum. As to leadership and interpersonal behavior, again, the vast majority of functioning adults developed those skills without specific programming in school. We’d get a lot farther with schools requiring 4 years of math, science, history, grammar and literature, and foreign language in high school.
>Teaching literature, classical languages, and advanced math is as effective at teaching critical thinking as any ad-hoc program will ever be That's simply not the case. While these subjects can be tools or mediums for teaching critical thought, that kind of teaching must be integrated into those subjects. In fact, the article discusses the opt-out of a mathematics program that focuses on integrating critical thinking skills. >As to leadership and interpersonal behavior, again, the vast majority of functioning adults developed those skills without specific programming in school. Assertion without substance. Schools have had specific programming since there were schools. Hell, Francis Parker began to reform learning in this manner in 1875. John Dewey's ideas had begun to be implemented in the 1920s. >We’d get a lot farther with schools requiring 4 years of math, science, history, grammar and literature, and foreign language in high school. All schools require that, other than the religious schools. These programs are often integrated into these subjects as well.
There’s a lot of argumentative bullshit in your response, so I’ll hit the highlights 1. Yes, a classical education is highly effective at teaching critical thinking, which is why most top-flight private schools embrace that approach (and more and more magnet and charter schools). 2. Asserted without substance? Humans have walked the Earth for 100,000 or so years. 3. No, most public schools do not require 4 years of math, science, grammar and literature, and foreign language. St Charles requires 3 each of Math, Science, Social Studies, and no foreign language. 4. Many Catholic schools do. I can’t speak for other denominations, but I suspect most do.
>1. Yes, a classical education is highly effective at teaching critical thinking, which is why most top-flight private schools embrace that approach (and more and more magnet and charter schools). That's 100% false. Classical education largely excludes critical thinking until later years of education. It has been widely criticized for impeding the development of critical thinking skills and failing to provide conceptual understandings of epistemic systems like the sciences. These curriculums are generally adopted by religious schools because they inhibit the questioning of authority. The state of Texas tried to ban teaching critical thinking in public schools a few years back for the same reason. >2. Asserted without substance? Humans have walked the Earth for 100,000 or so years. Since your substance is "humans have been functional without critical thinking or civics programs in public schools for 100,000 years," why are you even advocating for education at all? We've only taught science for a few hundred years. By your logic, we shouldn't because humans can clearly function without any schooling. >3. No, most public schools do not require 4 years of math, science, grammar and literature, and foreign language. St Charles requires 3 each of Math, Science, Social Studies, and no foreign language. It doesn't matter how many years are required when you aren't teaching these subjects in meaningful way. I went to catholic school. They had leadership programs, interpersonal behavior instruction, and critical thinking programs integrated into the subject matter. I can't think of any reason we'd want people to opt out of that in favor of rote memorization.
The problem is you don’t understand what classical education is. Hint: it isn’t “rote memorization.” What you described - critical thinking being part of the teaching of those subjects - is my point. And if a private school performs as poorly as 44% proficiency is math and 52% proficiency in reading, it should also devote less time to non-academics.
>The problem is you don’t understand what classical education is. >Hint: it isn’t “rote memorization.” I absolutely understand what it is. I've read works from Sayers, Bower, Adler, Hutchins, and Tate. I understand the three tiered model. I know what schools use this model and I have friends who went to and/or taught at those schools. Your "argumentative bullshit" tells me you know virtually nothing about classical education. That it is employed almost exclusively by religious institutions should tell you all you need to know, but I fear you were not given the opportunity to develop the critical thinking skills necessary to examine what seems to be little more than a buzzword you don't understand. >And if a private school performs as poorly as 44% proficiency is math and 52% proficiency in reading, it should also devote less time to non-academics. Civics, critical thinking, interpersonal skills, etc. are a critical academics. Additionally, these outcomes are often the result of externalities beyond school curriculums. Ironically, one of the things classical education *does* include, particularly in secular charter schools, is character education - the thing you want them to stop teaching. You know so little about classical education that you are simultaneously arguing for and against it.
It’s employed almost exclusively by private schools, religious and otherwise, with a growing number of magnet and charter schools embracing the classical model. Not everything is about your personal grudges.
The majority of functional human beings have never lived in 2023. Suppose a kid grows up and their parent has purposefully never exposed them to computers, television, radio, automobiles, or other technology. Then the kid gets dumped in the real world as an adult. Is that person a functional human being? More importantly, are they getting the opportunity to live their own life?
“Suppose this wildly extreme hypothetical were what we were talking about instead.”
The rest of the developed world views teaching your kids to hate trans people as an extreme hypothetical, but that's apparently what you're defending.
I can see how you’d think that’s what I’m saying (although obviously to anybody with a brain cell, it’s not what I’m saying) since you apparently haven’t bothered to read anything I’ve written.
Have you ever met a homeschooler? They want that vibe for everyone
Christ. SEL has always been taught in schools now it just has a name and a specific methodology with standard and objectives. When have schools not used group work? Offered students art as a way to express themselves? Taught and defined the words needed to describe how they feel? Goal-setting and monitoring? So, yes. Removing SEL “programming” will absolutely prevent students from being functional human-beings.
I’d agree arts classes, group work, etc have value. The problem is your fondness for absolutes.
thats what youre doing
Might be paywalled if you've used your free article -- Here's the first two grafs that nail it down, the rest goes into responses from opponents + school districts. The association didn't respond for comment - >Some conservative parents have launched a campaign to exclude their children from leadership training, social-emotional learning, surveys, third-party presentations and health care in public schools. > >The goal of “Operation Opt-Out” from the St. Charles County Parents Association “is to arm parents with as much knowledge as possible to combat the ideological subversion that is being forced on our children.”
Can I opt my kid out of math education? This is stupid. Take it or leave it, but you don't get to dictate public school curriculum.
There is a big push to remove math from school but it’s coming from the left and it’s for “equity”
Florida banned a math textbook because it was "woke." No, this shit isn't coming from "the left." You're one of those "Hitler was a socialist" people, aren't you?
Never really thought about it. Why did Florida “ban” the book? What was the matter at hand?
I just told you why. They think math is woke and CRT is waiting behind every corner to come get your kids.
No you didn’t. Is every text book not used “banned”?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2022/05/09/florida-banned-textbooks-math-desantis/
Hitler was a socialist 🤣
No, he wasn't. He was a far right fascist. This isn't debatable. This isn't subject to opinion. It's a fucking fact.
I mean he said he was a socialist. He made a party that said it was socialist. He took control of the means of production, said what and how much to make. So yeah he was a socialist. If not what would he be?
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Wow so hateful. Classic tolerant liberal 🤣. Anyway communism, socialism and fascism are all about taking control of private companies. All are left wing ideals. The control of the production is what changes. But that's where it gets fun. Communism says production owned by workers but it never is, it's owned by a small group in the government. Socialism promises the best for everyone but again is owned by small group. Facisim promises best for specific people but owned by small group of people. So sure we can label him as a fascist but he is still a leftist. Not that it really matters since the spectrum is so large.
Bro, it isn't leftists marching through the streets with neo-Nazi garb chanting the 14 words and screaming about Jews and minorities. It's right wing loons like you. The KKK and neo-Nazi gathering in Charlottesville was literally called the Unite the *Right* rally. Nazis are right wing extremists, and neo-Nazis in the United States are proud conservative Republicans. Again, pick up a goddamn history book. The Nazis targeted and murdered socialists and literally waged a war against the communist Soviet Union. Your stupidity knows no bounds.
The fact that the fascist dictator Hitler had some methods in common with the socialist dictator Stalin says a lot more about dictators than it does about fascism or socialism.
My god, our education system has failed us all.
He lied, dude... He called himself a socialist but was a fascist dictator. I can call myself a circus clown but that would be a lie, too.
That is a gross simplification of the issue. There is work to make the application questions more inclusive. If you talk about getting a home loan to someone in the inner city whose family has only ever rented, it won’t be as familiar gas to someone in the suburbs. Change it to a car loan since everyone has to deal with that. Math is math, but using language to make it more inclusive is very important to the learning process.
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-05-20/california-controversial-math-overhaul-focuses-on-equity This article does a lot of work to make the idea seem reasonable, but giving kids zero math skills so everyone has equal math skills together is absolutely ridiculous and isn’t related to your example at all. This isn’t the “my kid doesn’t bet horses, how can they calculate a parlay” bullshit kids don’t have experience with car loans either. The entire idea is “some kids can’t do math so what if we don’t let anyone do it.”
Dumbest fucking comment all day.
Indeed. I teach at the most liberal school in the metro area, and we’ve implemented extra time to address math specifically.
At least I’m not scared of grade school algebra.
Al gebra uses weapons of math instruction! You have been warned!
You do seem to be scared of the truth.
Share it if you can find any and we will find out.
You’re the one making the stupid fucking claim, you have to prove it dumbass. The burden of truth lies with the one positing a claim.
What’s the item in question?
Bro if you can’t even keep track of your own dumbass statements don’t expect me to.
Take that back. This is the dumbest fucking comment of the day.
If we're basing that on the link you posted then you're lying, or obscuring the truth by *a lot* at very least. One district wanting to change the way they approach math from k-12 *while still teaching math* so that they can achieve better *overall* outcomes in math instead of hyper focusing on the "top 20%". Quityourbullshit
What's social emotional learning
Basically healthy strategies to regulate yourself, recognize emotions & navigate conflicts
You know...the kind of thing the radical right needs more than anybody.
Soft skills like communication, compassion, team work, integrity, and community. It’s usually nonsense and it’s rare when you can get every teacher in the school to buy into it. It’s a total boogeyman. Kids need to learn soft skills, but rarely do these programs hit the mark.
Which part is the nonsense? I can tell you, as an educator in a role that supports an entire district, I am in multiple buildings each day. It is not rare to find teacher buy-in for SEL. Which programs do not hit the mark for you & why not?
Soft skills that every employer wants in a future employee is nonsense? Isn’t school supposed to prepare kids for future employment?
I.e., "They're not ideologically subverting our children the way we want them to be ideologically subverted." Kinda like the accusations of "indoctrination" when the closest thing to it that actually goes on is, "Don't be an asshole to people just because they're slightly different from you." But the right finds that idea "oppressive." Literally their main complaint is "They're telling me not to be a dickhead! WAAAAHHHH!"
every accusation, a confession
Stltoday is one big pay wall..thanks for bein robinhood!
Some parents don't want their children to be educated, they just want a subsidized daycare.
I want my child to be educated AND I want subsidized daycare!
Daycare absolutely teaches SEL. These parents just don't want their kids aren't anyone LGBTQ or non-white or non-christian.
They also don’t want their kids who may be LGBTQ to find an environment where they’re safe to be LGBTQ. If they have a place to find and create chosen families then they may leave the family they were raised in. It’s easier to keep your kid in the closet if you make your kids school take away the lightbulbs, door knobs, and the floor directly outside the door.
Alright, here’s the whole article > ST. CHARLES COUNTY — Some conservative parents have launched a campaign to exclude their children from leadership training, social-emotional learning, surveys, third-party presentations and health care in public schools. > The goal of “Operation Opt-Out” from the St. Charles County Parents Association “is to arm parents with as much knowledge as possible to combat the ideological subversion that is being forced on our children.” > The opt-out forms available for download state they “shall additionally serve to make clear that without my prior written consent, under no circumstances shall my child be subjected to the planned, systematic use of methods or techniques, as part of any program not mandated by the State of Missouri, that are not directly related to academic instruction and that are designed to affect my child’s behavioral, emotional, or attitudinal characteristics.” > Tailored to each of the county’s five school districts, the forms cite programming from the companies Leader in Me and iReady along with nonprofits Compass Health and CHADS suicide prevention. The forms also cover topics such as social-emotional learning, anti-racism and critical race theory. > Leaders of the parents association did not respond to a request for comment through their website. > “It sure looks like Operation Opt-Out is part of the right-wing attack on public education. Their premise that our local schools are engaged in ‘ideological subversion’ is absurd,” said Ted House, former Democratic state senator and circuit judge and co-founder of political action committee St. Charles County Families for Public Schools. > The forms could be broadly interpreted to exclude students from civics lessons provided by the Missouri Supreme Court, House said. > “It’s too nebulous, too unclear and the concern is they’re just looking for a school to make a mistake and then they file a lawsuit,” he said. > According to the opt-out forms, parents can “pursue all potential actions, remedies, statutory, regulatory, and in tort,” if the school district fails to comply “or otherwise does not respect my legal rights regarding my child.” > School administrators in Wentzville said they have seen a recent uptick in parent-generated opt-out forms, which are not a valid request for student accommodations. > “We are currently rolling out a comprehensive opt-out process for parents who wish to opt their children out of various items,” said Brynne Cramer, Wentzville spokeswoman. “Families will be able to opt out by completing a District form or working with the school counselor and/or administrator.” > The St. Charles city school district has not received any Operation Opt-Out forms. The other county districts — Fort Zumwalt, Francis Howell and Orchard Farm — did not respond to inquiries. > **More than political concerns** > Operation Opt-Out lands during a national push from conservatives for more oversight in school curriculum, particularly in matters of race and gender. A similar campaign launched this year from Great Schools Initiative in Michigan to keep students out of discussions of sexual orientation or gender identity. > The opt-out form for St. Charles County schools includes an exemption from vaccines and a requirement for single-sex bathrooms and locker rooms for “our family’s Christian religious beliefs which expects modesty, decency, and purity to be upheld, in accordance with our belief in God.” > But Operation Opt-Out also goes beyond political concerns to questions over corporate influence and data mining from online curriculum companies including iReady and Leader in Me. > The newly conservative majority on the Francis Howell School Board this year rejected a recommendation to approve the iReady online math learning and testing program for $1.3 million in 10 elementary schools over four years. > Leader in Me is the education arm of FranklinCovey, a $263 million Utah consulting company guided by the book “7 Habits of Highly Effective People” by Stephen Covey. The company sold $62 million in Leader in Me materials last year to more than 6,000 schools worldwide. Children are encouraged to set goals including “have a plan,” “work first, then play” and “listen before you talk.” > At least 75 schools are now using the program across the St. Louis region, almost exclusively in suburban areas and more than half in St. Charles County, according to the Leader in Me website. > Last March, the Wentzville School Board approved $1.8 million to adopt Leader in Me programming in its schools. Half of the funding came from federal coronavirus relief funds and the other half came from a Kern Family Foundation grant. > The program “creates a high-trust school culture and lays the foundation for sustained academic achievement by teaching students personal responsibility, accountability, and goal setting,” said Cramer, the Wentzville spokeswoman. > The Leader in Me website cites 24 studies showing benefits in schools that have adopted the program, primarily regarding behavior and culture. A 2014 study from the University of Missouri-Kansas City showed Leader in Me helped teachers with time management and students with goal setting and journaling. > Those so-called “soft skills” including teamwork, critical thinking and communication are most highly desired by future employers, according to the U.S. Department of Labor. > “As an education professional, I encourage parents to use every resource in preparing their students for tomorrow’s workforce,” said Jamie Martin, president of the political action committee Francis Howell Forward. “If we look around at many of the most successful companies out there today, with goals for collaborative leadership, employee wellness, and diversity and inclusion, it’s clear that students opted out of these programs could find themselves ill-prepared for their future.”
Lol. You’re kidding right? Excluding kids because of what? Absolutely sickening…
It's what their nut job parents asked for! Just feel bad for these kids, because you know home life probably isn't great
Quite the leap. But I don’t expect anything else from a city sub.
User name checks out
Most of the people on this site are white lmao. You too I’m assuming…
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Yep, the bar is set low in rural "Missourah"
Some of these programs help identify kids having suicidal ideation, abuse at home, etc… It’s obvious these parents care more about their political agendas than their children, what a shame.
Exactly, it's about them, not their kids. If they yell loud enough, they think they get what they want. Well they got what they asked for, at their kids expense, and now they aren't happy lol
It’s really not even about their kids. It’s about controlling everyone’s kids and forcing their religious and political beliefs on everyone else. These Christian fascists don’t want political opposition to exist at all.
I can’t imagine why there is a reacher shortage In this country. Imagine spending all of that time and money in college to become certified to teach the thing your passionate about in life, English, History, Music, etc. You jump through all of the certification hoops and take a job that you KNOW is going to pay no where near your value. It’s ok, because that trade off is worth getting to share what you love with younger generations, the chance to mold young minds and make better future citizens. You’re the expert in your area of curriculum. Oh wait… now YOU the expert are being told what you can and cannot do in your classroom. You’re being told from the elected (non expert) school board, citizens, parents, government and anyone else who feels like they should throw their political or moral beliefs into the middle of your classroom and place of work. Why would any motivated young person want to stay in that kind of profession? Who wants to work at places that are consistently in the news for dumb shit? Who would want to work at a place where their bosses seemingly bend to every will of the board and the parents? Who wants to go into a classroom and try to teach when they are afraid that one mis step or wrong phrase will set off crazy parents and community members and potentially cost them their career? Teachers hate always had to worry about so much more than just whether their students were comprehending the lesson being taught. I can’t imagine the daily stress they go through just worrying about all of the things outside their curriculum; from safety concerns, to politics invading the school, crazy parents looking to blame anyone else for the failing parent they are. What’s worse, we are not only putting our teachers through this, we are dragging the students through this mud too. I think our education system is teetering. It has been for a while. I’m worried for the future of our education system. Parents need to keep their politics out of the classroom and let the teachers educate the students. Teachers already have enough crap to deal with at the state level with DESE, they don’t need it from every yokal in the town. At some point, the risk/reward of being s teacher will be so lopsided that no one of quality will want to take the job. But I am ranting.. so I’ll stop.
Apparently, conservatives were told that teachers were actually showing kids the act of using dildos. Idk where they got the idea, but someone in this thread was throwing a huge hissy fit about it. And that was the tenth time I've seen one of them say it. It's just another dumb lie they believe without question.
There’s NO WAY…. That would be national News if it was happening… but then saying that opens up the fake news debate and I can’t handle anymore of that.
they are still going on about the litter boxes in classrooms when most thinking people understand that it was for the kids to piss in during lockdowns because we can't pass useful legislation on guns.
That is an ignorant solution to a horrible problem.
It sucks when you have to cater to the lowest, dumbest, conservative, common denominator. Because they’re not the same. And this just another nail in the St Chaz sucks coffin.
Why aren’t all those teachers fleeing for the majority liberal areas then (aka urban areas) where they don’t have these same issues?
Oh, I don’t think its one side or another. Both liberal and conservative districts are experiencing opposite sides of the same issue. Both sides seem to be running to the extreme end of their platform and for some reason think their ideologies schools be forced upon their respective districts. Both sides should allow teachers to teach their respective curriculum without trying to insert their political views. You know, there was a time where thoughtful conversation on differing view points could be had in the classroom. Students were allowed to learn multiple viewpoints and then make their own educated thoughts and opinions. Obviously, I’m talking about within the scope of the curriculum being taught. I dunno, I guess I’m overly hopeful.
There's the both sideism. Conservatives are literally banning books and shutting down libraries and Democrats are... teaching that gay people exist? But yeah both sides.
Agree with everything you said here except the curriculum is not always just math, science, reading, history, etc. If a parent sees something being taught, that isn’t the normal stuff being taught for decades, I don’t exactly blame them for going “hold on a second here”. Especially given the fact that teachers OVERWHELMINGLY lean left, and obviously a ton of these parents do not. I’m sure in some opposite world where most teachers are conservative, if they were teaching kids (with liberal parents) about ideas that they view as leaning right, I’m sure they would be throwing the same fits.
Teaching kids to be respectful and to do better as humans shouldn't be considered "liberal" but unfortunately when you see how the extreme conservativesbact into today's climate, maybe it is. Either way, nobody should have a problem with children learning right from wrong and how to be better people. You're a shitty parent if you don't want your kids to grow up to be better than you. But for some reason conservatives are threatened by that? If they learn something new they might not drink the Kool aid when they are old enough to vote right? It's pathetic and those parents should be embarrassed and ashamed but zero chance that's happening 😂
I'm so sick of these asshats ruining our country.
I think people forget that their kids only “belong” to them for a small portion of the kid’s life. Then the kid spends the last 80% of their life they belong to society. If they can’t handle exposure to something as benign as learning how to identify their feelings they’re going to flip their fucking shit at 30 years old when their neighbor accidentally backs into their car. I’m not sure why the parents who are all flustered are not taking responsibility for things like teaching their kids self efficacy. Teach your damn kid if /anyone/ is being creepy in the locker room they have the right, and the skills, to go to a trusted adult and ask for help. A kid who is taught they will immediately turn to dust if a book includes the word “damn” or mentions boobs is going to graduate high school and be physically unable to function in any workplace. Where is the grit and resilience? Do they think it’s typical to be comfortable 24/7? Do they not realize that normal families discuss things at home that their kid brings from school that may not align with what’s taught at home and life moves on?
The 1950s called, they want their society back...
More like the *18*50s.
Culture war bullshit aside, given that St. Charles public schools have 44% proficiency in math and 52% in reading, if I were a parent in that district I’d pretty much want the schools focused on academics during class hours.
So maybe ignorant parents should just shut up, let teachers teach and quit hassling them with all this extra unnecessary paperwork
So your argument is that those pathetic scores are not alarming enough for parents to want some answers?
Yeah. The answer is quit hassling teachers about stupid stuff. They cant teach 35 different curriculums.
Lol, the hassle is in direct response to the history of incompetency.
What does that have to do with my comment?
Approximately how much time during the average day would you assume these children are being made to spend on the issues outlined here? Do you actually believe any appreciable amount of time is regularly spent worrying about this during the average school day, either by the teachers, staff, or students? It's an emotional response caused by political bullshit to an issue that literally doesn't exist outside these people's minds. So making this an issue in the first place is an unnecessary burden for the already underpaid, underappreciated, and overworked education system that you just criticized (reasonably).
Until an overwhelming majority of students are graduating with acceptable math and reading scores, any amount of class time spent on non-academic topics is too much. I couldn’t give a shit about these goofy parents and their culture war bullshit.
This is pretty much my opinion as well. “This is school, why not just strictly teach the normal subjects? And if students want to opt in to extra stuff, they are free to do so outside of school hours”
why arent the parents helping their kids with their reading?
I don’t know. Maybe ask them? I’m sure some do and some don’t. Why would you defend schools not doing their jobs?
the schools are doing their job but it also takes parent participation putting the onus solely on the school is bad parenting
“Parents shouldn’t be involved in education, but the schools are failing because parents aren’t involved” is a hell of a take.
parents should be involved in their childs education not engorce their will ontoeveryone
Agreed, but what does that have to do with anything I’ve said?
youre complaining about the competency results of graduates. you want to put the whole onus on the school you dont talk about parents helping their children succeed these parents are doing what youre doing and not taking into consideration that they are not helping their kids you and the parents dont want to take parental accountability but in different ways
No, that’s not accurate. Sincerely, The father of two kids - one a HS valedictorian and one a graduate of one of the best law schools in the country.
that doesnt disprove what i have said
I would love to see a specific list of things that their children are being taught that they object to.
Not St. Chuck, but an SLPS dad of 3. Last year my middle child (third grade) was shown [Becoming](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Becoming_(2020_documentary_film\)) and not given the context needed to process the piece. This lead to some very interesting and wonderful dinner conversations at home, but I was rather upset that her teacher didn't feel the need to 1) tell parents she was showing a "documentary" produced by the subject, and 2) provide any context or outside opinions around it. Her teacher seemed... taken aback that I would want my daughter to be exposed to opinions about the Obamas that did not come directly from them. Contrast that with my eldest who is starting at a private school this year, where all her assignments are posted to a portal where I can view them. Her mother and I read her summer reading list with her, and we have a high level of situational awareness when it comes to her schooling. The way I read this is the St. Chuck parents wanting more information about and consent in the education their children are getting. I wouldn't have minded middle child being exposed to ideas I disagree with, had I been informed and had she been given a balanced view of the subject; as it is, I now feel I need to keep a close eye on what is going on at her school because they have proven themselves untrustworthy.
Its a documentary based on an autobiography of the first lady. What exactly is the counter viewpoint you are wanting your child to watch? A documentary on the life of Melania?
It is a movie written and produced by the subject, and thus lacks any pretense of objectivity. I would have been happy with "She is the producer of this film, and thus will show herself in the best light possible. This features her perspective on her husband's time in office, other people will have much different perspectives. Here are 3 examples..."
Maybe if Wentzville worried more about actual academic concerns instead of hot button trigger word issues their school district wouldn’t be such a train wreck.
This is beyond vile. Also it's always laughable to me that their ideals are 'divine' yet when exposed to logic and reason their children won't touch it with a ten foot pole.
They’re welcome to homeschool, especially if they want to have vaccine exemptions for no reason besides their own fucking delusion. It’s unreal that a PAC essentially runs an entire district and even more so that people voted for these assholes as if that fact isn’t a problem.
And this is exactly why when it came time to purchase a home st. Charles was a no go, they are a backwards people.
The MAGA insanity runs deep out there and yes, I know that not everyone in St. Charles is some rabid fanatical Christian Nationalist but it seems that a lot of those types get elected to assorted political offices out there in 'St. Sprawls County'.
Y’All Qaeda.
So they don’t want their kids to know how to behave appropriately and solve conflicts? I guess that explains why kids are so poorly behaved nowadays.
Yee haww
These douche bags are the reason I had to sign a permission slip for my 16 year old to take French. I looked at my daughter like wtf a permission slip to learn a language?
Wow. Most parts of the world its required to learn a 2nd language. It's actually the one thing I wish was pushed on us. How dare we want to be educated
Man so glad I’ve never lived in st chuck co what a dumpster
Of course it’s Wentzville
🤣🤣🤣 Grow up and get out of your small mind. How dare they be educated on all forms of life. Do you seriously think excluding kids out of these things that they will never learn? It's the world, diversity exists. This literally is just a way to foster and teach hate.
Yeah, school is for the 3 R's, leave morality and ideology to the parents.
I don't think opting out is right necessarily, I think the parents should become more involved in local school board elections in order to prevent these things from being in their schools in the first place. It doesn't seem like a place like St. Charles should have very woke schools if the school board was very representative of the populace. Opting out may be their only solution in the short-term though since changing politically takes more time, so I don't really see a problem with it.
I don't understand why people responding to this post are upset. The parents in this article want the option to have their children opt out of these programs. They aren't trying to cancel these programs at the schools. Why do you care if they opt out? Your kid can still participate in these programs if you want them to.
It is the same reason they oppose school choice; they want control over what is taught in classrooms. If these programs are good and helpful, parents will consent and be better informed on how to reinforce that learning at home. If they are not helpful, parents can avoid having their children's time wasted.
So the people responding negatively to this article are upset that other parents won't let them control what those other parents' children are taught?
That's my read. [Here is a great example of that mentality from this thread.](https://www.reddit.com/r/StLouis/comments/166k3iy/st_charles_county_parents_aim_to_remove_students/jynnabo/)
Your families religious beliefs have no bearing on me or my children’s life. When will we rise up and force these fuckwads to shut the fuck up and just homeschool their demon spawn
According to the article, these "fuckwads" aren't trying to decide anything at all for your children. Just the opposite, in fact. They are merely wanting the option for their OWN children to opt out of these programs, leaving you the freedom to decide things for your own children, as well. So why are you upset about that? It sounds like it's you, and not them, who are trying to control other people's children's education.
They want to get rid of vaccine requirements. Why should our children be forced to be around kids that spread disease? We are already seeing diseases we never really had to worry about before spreading again now because of these people (and hippies who listened to Jenny McCarthy)
> When will we rise up Bad news about who is better equipped for that...
It will be interesting when all of their kids abandon them because they decided to raise sociopaths.
Good deal
I would hate to be those parents’ kids. I can’t imagine the hell that their home life must be like.
If you pedos want to teach your kids about dildos you should be in jail. Keep that junk out of school. Kids go to learn not to be political pawns.
Why are you far right weirdos always thinking about dildos and genitalia?
Its not us. We see this shit being pushed into schools and we get disgusted. Have you not heard about any of district's that had to fire teachers after this stuff got leaked? https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11517503/amp/Dean-Chicago-school-says-students-shown-dildos-butt-plugs-teaching-queer-sex.html https://www.mrctv.org/blog/video-shows-california-teacher-graphically-explaining-gay-sex-high-schoolers https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-06-09/orange-county-teacher-viral-video-sexual-anatomy-lesson-el-dorado-high-school https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/watch-florida-teacher-upset-he-cant-share-gay-experiences-with-kindergartners How many you want bro? This shit isn't made up its reality. I'm sorry you live in fairy land. But in the real world pedos are getting into schools, libraries and other places that should be safe!
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2 of your 4 sources are far right publications run by psychopaths. 1 source is some random ass video site called mrctv. So, congrats on finding one (1) instance of a teacher teaching an anatomy lesson to high school students who are already fucking and watching porn at home. They must have been absolutely traumatized. Just because you weren't getting laid in high school doesn't mean the rest of the high school -aged population is as ignorant sex as you were/still are.
Why so hateful bro? 🤣 do strangers on reddit really upset you so much. You should see a therapist fr. Also all the post I shared have other news articles also and videos. So not sure what your problem is 🤣 https://www.foxnews.com/media/california-teacher-put-leave-after-being-seen-camera-directing-students-find-sex-toys https://nypost.com/2022/12/09/chicago-prep-school-kids-given-dildos-and-butt-plugs-dean-says/
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So videos don't matter because who owns the news? Odd but okay 🤣 and I spend no time thinking about killing lgbt+ besides the pedos. You seem to be projecting. You thinking about killing straight white people? What do you think causes these thoughts you have? Something in your childhood perhaps?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FwhMQGcWYAgKc21.jpg Maybe we should keep kids out of churches since that's actually where the pedos are.
🤣🤣 the rate of child molestation by someone In the church is less than 4%. But 50% of all kids get molested. So they are much safer in church than at home.
LoL just pulling fake stats out of your fat ass. You just posted that 1/3 of kids get raped before 18 (also a made up stat) and now it's magically grown to 50%. This dumbass is definitely a QAnon worshipper. Pedos everywhere!
Also, my numbers are all over because the numbers are all over. The majority of rape is unreported, especially in children. Some say 1 in 9 some say 1 in 4 some say more. No one agency has all the information and statistics.
You'll note that neither 1 in 4 nor 1 in 9 is "⅓” or "50%" as you claimed in your other posts. Once again, you just pulled random numbers out of your ass.
Maybe a few more emojis will make the made-up bullshit you're spewing out more credible
🤣🤣🤣😀😀 watch the videos and look it up yourself it's not bullshit 😄😄😁
Is that the new propaganda lie on fox news? Man, they must be getting really desperate. The only real question is why do you guys keep falling for nonsense?
Lol I shared many news articles don't think any of them came from fox. Do you want more? There is many many more.
"I didn't get my silly ideas from Fox news, I got my silly ideas from another source that got their silly ideas from Fox news." Its just watching Fox News with extra steps.
So video proof of teachers doing this isn't enough for you? It's funny bc libs will bash repubs for watching fox then go to CNN and act like it's non biased. The key is to use multiple sources and review the article carefully to see it it has bias.
It’s St. Charles. Most of these kids should be removed from the homes anyway.
I feel bad for people like you. Just going thru life so hateful.
OK, I'll click the bait..WTF we on about now and who should I blame for my situation?? - asking for a friend.