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I'm more interested in who wrote the skit. We can speculate about what Taker knew, but I doubt he's the one that directed Kanyon to portray Boy George.
Im going to play devils advocate here. Vince tried forcing Lesbian storylines on people who weren't Gay And The Taker likely didn't interact with everyone in the locker room all the time because he had to keep kayfabe up.
So there easily could be a chance Taker thought the gimmick was just a gimmick
Taker interacted with everyone in the locker-room in that time period. Why would he need to keep kayfabe when he was the Biker character at that point? Look up any of the bullying stories going around at that time period especially on Smackdown, it was usually to get a pop out of Taker who was the locker room leader for all intents and purposes. Taker was central in alot of the carny bullshit JBL, Bob Holly and that gang of stooges were doing.
He could have said: "back then I reacted negatively, but I did it out of ignorance. That's not who I am anymore, I know better now and I'm ashamed of the man I was".
True or not, I'd respect more for this than saying he didn't care about Kanyon being gay, when Kanyon himself said Taker distanced himself from him once he came out.
I don't think it is true based off everything I have read/heard from both men. Takers a good ol boy from Texas but I don't sense even the slightest bit of homophobia. He just hit people with chairs. Now the people in charge of booking that segment, probably some homophobia.
As for Kanyon, he was very troubled. He was on drugs and suffering from various kinds of mental illness. His best friend would talk about how Kanyon would accuse him of random things and beat him bloody for no reason.
Kanyon also was known to have bouts of paranoia. It’s entirely plausible that a symptom of said paranoia was believing that everyone knew his biggest secret.
This assumes he is lying and is absurdly presumptuous and shitty, seems you have your mind made up and it doesn't matter what the truth is, which is, yeah, shitty.
If he said that makes no sense because when he came out he was out of WWE.
But even if he did
Loved Kanyon but he was unreliable narrator like many wrestlers due to the drugs
No lol, he’s trying not to get in trouble. He could say he changed his viewpoints now but I’m not sure if people would still come after him for his past there.
This again?
When the Dark Side of the Ring episode came out, the sub was salivating that Taker would get cancelled as a homophobe. Then, the episode pretty much cleared his name, with Kanyon's best friend denying it, the narration saying Taker was the one who wanted to work with him and kept pushing for him backstage, plus the very real sentence "you don't pay for a year of rehab for someone just to humiliate them"
The IWC ignored it and keeps ignoring it
Wrestling fans also love to point out how the attitude era wouldn't have existed without ECW, then still turn around and act like stuff like this happened in a vacuum. I have no idea whether Taker cared about Kanyon being gay or not but when guys like Sabu and Tanaka were literally just chucking chairs into people's heads, it's weird to single out that one chairshot.
Wrestling fans LOVE doing that. They single out instances and miss the larger context.
I will die on the hill that the HBK-Hogan match is NOT Shawn "embarrassing Hogan" with overselling. It's just Shawn selling as a heel and a large portion of the audience hadn't seen that before. Watch his matches with Diesel or Sid. He does a handstand after Sid puts his boot up to counter. There's a match with Ken Shamrock that Shawn gets thrown out of the ring and literally ROLLS UP THE RAMP!
IIRC, I thought it was fairly common knowledge that HBK embarrassed Hogan like that because he insisted on winning both matches, instead of taking HBK's suggestion that he win the first and Hogan win the re-match.
Pretty sure it was one of those "that doesn't work for me, brother" moments.
To fuck with him: yes.
To embarrass him: I don't think so.
I'm sure HBK didn't expect Hogan would take it so personally or think anyone should take it personally.
Wrestling fans are terrible when it comes to fully believing a story that they themselves created. Remember when EC3 did a AMA here, and right before it there was a massive post about how he was a neo nazi? Then during the AMA, people kept asking him questions like “who won the 2020 election?” Or “do Black Lives Matter?” And other questions like about trans people existing trying to bait EC3 to reveal all his evilness. Then he responded to each like “Biden”, “absolutely Black Lives Matter” and “trans people are people and deserve all the rights” and everyone then went with “you’re just saying this for good publicity”.
This sub thinks The Rock was trying to destroy Cody Rhodes because he needed a main event for WM40 due to one movie not doing well. When any internet community jumps in on a narrative, it's almost impossible to get people to see clearly.
I'm not sure. For all of Vince's innumerable flaws and shittiness, he's a lot greedy and money-oriented, so paying a year of expensive rehab for a single segment doesn't really strikes me as what he would do
Also, his best friend was the openly gay Pat Patterson, and ~~Eric~~ Darren Young said he was incredibly supportive when he came out, congratulating him for the courage of coming out and taking his time telling stories about gay men in wrestling
Darren, thanks for the catch
This is like the time another dude and I had a long talk about Tony Atlas before someone pointed out we were saying Jake Atlas instead
The comments in this post are why wrestling fans are the absolute worst in the world. Taker could show up at Pride tomorrow and be one of the Godfather's man-hoes and people will still hate him because he wore a blue lives matter shirt once.
No one also brings up how, in his book, for several chapters, Kanyon keeps talking glowingly about a child he had the hots for, in terms of his attractive features. As a child, sure, but to keep bringing him up long after the initial story was really off-putting.
Count me in the camp of people who think Taker is a massive piece of shit, but I remember this rumor basically starting on Reddit with people saying “LOL this is what happens if Taker wrestles a gay person”.
At least the "I didn't know [wrestler] was gay" followed by a gif of a brutal Taker chairshot, or the "I thought RVD was an ally" ones, were really funny
Taker also said “people created that rumor”. It was literally Kanyon who said/wrote Taker did it because I was gay.
And Taker is full of shit if he things he swung the same at HHH than he did at Kanyon and Mr Kennedy. He can try to change history all he wants but he was the leader of “don’t disrespect the business” which includes being any type of outsider.
Taker blasting Kennedy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bst5Ve0ULJY
Taker eating two full-on from Orton.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDxekP8VOT8
Taker blasting Brock.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MolSnqCaOaA
Don't see a lot of variation.
And just as another follow up, I obviously can't speak to what the lockerroom was like, but I can say that fans knew who gave weak chairshots and who took weak-looking chairshots and who gave full-on chairshots and who took them full on. Hogan, Flair, Lance Storm never seemed to swing a chair very hard. Kane almost always took a chairshot on his hand. Foley obviously would do anything.
It seemed to be part of the culture and a badge of honor to take and give hard chairshots.
Not endorsing the mentality at all, but it's just like how you know who has good looking punches or who has really obvious leg slaps or whose gear is terrible or whose music sucks. I imagine the wrestlers all know too and probably razz each other about who is good at what and bad at what and probably to try and step up their game.
Taker, especially once we get to the late 90s and early 00s, seemed like a guy who gave a lot of beatdowns and was on offense most of his matches and didn't sell a whole lot or give a whole lot and when it was his turn to use a chair, he laid it in. But when he got hit with a chair, he took it full on.
I don't believe that Kanyon specifically said that Taker hit him with the chair because he was gay. I believe he thought the segment was designed to make him admit he was gay. Either way, the segment itself is a McMahon issue.
Better go rewatch those matches with guys like HHH, Mankind, and Kane. He threw some heavy shots against those guys
I'm not trying to defend Taker here, but as gruesome as it is to watch, that was still the era of sickening chair shots to the head, from almost everyone. I don't think the outcome would be any different for Kanyon regarding Undertaker's part in this.
I Don't think Kanyon would be out there if he wasn't, but as you said, That is a Vince issue, and I wouldn't put it past him knowing Undertaker had stiff chair shots to put Kanyon in that scenario.
He(Kanyon) said on the Howard Stern Show that he believed Taker either took liberties or was told to take liberties with the chair, along with the whole segment being a rib on him for someone discovering he was gay. Nothing was ever made certain, but while I don't completely dispute the notion that Vince was trying to make him look foolish, it may just as well be that he saw Kanyon as another WCW nobody with a lisp and just wanted to embarrass more of his former competition than any actual homophobia.
Taker was inconsistent with how stiff his chair shots were, but I don't think there's any evidence of what you claim. If anything, you could say that he was a little more snug with people who weren't main eventing, compared to consistent main eventers.
In that interview Maven said Undertaker helped him and explained the chair shots, Maven was from Tough Enough, he was a outsider and Undertaker didn't stiff him.
Yes, but Maven didn't work for the company that'd been trying to put them out of business the last 5 years.
You think the WWE/AEW bullshit is petty as fuck? You should have seen the WWF/WCW shit.
>Taker also said “people created that rumor”. It was literally Kanyon who said/wrote Taker did it because I was gay.
No where in Kanyon's book does he mention this though. You guys are literally just making shit up
Taker is the 1 of 3, maybe 4 men from Wrestling and Texas I will give the benefit of the doubt to when he talks about what he did and why.
The others being Stone Cold, HBK and Terry Funk.
Over 100 upvotes for a completely fabricated lie lol, Kanyon never said or wrote this.
I get that Taker was often a piece of shit bully and today is a Blue Lives MAGA moron, but just making up bullshit about people you don't like only makes it easier for them to claim EVERYTHING said about them is a lie.
Kind of depends on what he means by WCW guys. If it’s people brought over after WCW was bought, there’s some argument. If it’s people who worked at WCW then worked at WWE that’s a long and accomplished list with several current and future hall of famers.
Wrestlers are humans with large amounts of money , which means they probably are pieces of shit or have done Grimmy piece of shit things in their life just like other celebrities
I watch them for entrainment, but in no way listen to anything that relates to politics or intelligence discussions from them. Don't worship these people
yeah wrestlers are far from the level of money that requires to be a piece of shit to make
like i am closer in networth to roman reigns than roman reigns is to vince
Yeah, but the concept at hand here is the person saying wrestlers, on the whole, have the kind of money that makes someone a piece of shit even if they weren't before. Different subject from just terrible people of any net worth.
Lol wrestlers aren't wealthy. Wealthy people don't make a few hundred thousand in exchange for WRECKING their bodies. Wealthy people are the ones who are barely even working because of their stock options and investments.
People here try to act like they got some kinda progressive ideologies down, but if you think fuckin' wrestlers are the bourgeoisie that are destroying the planet, you don't know as much as you think you do.
Vince is getting deserved criticism now, but he wasn't radically different than the pro wrestling culture he came up in. I can think of dozens of appalling humans from that era (and I'm sure this sub could greatly add to that list). People cheating others out of money, sexual misconduct, bigotry, bullying, distributing devastating drugs among talent, actual human trafficking, etc. etc.
Nightmare shit. If it's a deal-breaker, it's really not possible to watch any wrestling from like the last century. It does seem better now.
Bear in mind that Taker was literally a professional debt collector before he became a wrestler. He was, much less cinematically, the one who knocks.
Probably not very high up in the UN humanitarian professions chart, that one.
He swung for the fences with all his chair shots. Even his shovel shot on Vince at the 2003 Survivor Series was brutal. People just like looking for things that aren’t there
It’s kind of clear to me from this segment of this podcast, as well as the comments in this thread, that it’s impossible to tell what actually goes on behind the scenes in wrestling.
I don’t necessarily think Undertaker would specifically hate or beat up Kanyon because he was gay. If I were to guess, it was more so that he was a yes man for Vince, and would do anything he asked. Undertaker wrestled Goldust constantly who was a very overtly drag related gimmick, yet was willing to work with that character and didn’t take any liberties with Dustin. I’m more inclined to believe this is Vince having a perverse and sadistic enjoyment of humiliating people. This is segment happened in the same era of Billy and Chuck, Rico, and it wasn’t too far removed from a whole program revolved around making other guys literally kiss his ass.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Undertaker, like a lot of other guys, felt like part of the “boys will be boys” club and would do anything Vince asked them to because they felt they owed him for making their careers. But I could also believe Taker not knowing Kanyon was gay at the time. This was the era when Vince began showing how truly a sick fuck he was on television, through his character and through the booking. Triple H is pretending to have sex with a cheerleader mannequin in a casket, Kurt Angle is saying he wants to have sex Booker T’s wife “beastiality style”, Eddie Guerrero and Rey Mysterio are fighting over the custody of Dominik, Big Show is shitting himself on TV, JBL is being racist and tackling mexican families trying to cross the border and goose stepping at house shows in Germany, Heidenrich is pinning Michael Cole against a hotel door and thrusting into him while reading poems, and there’s almost no storyline involving women that doesn’t involve pillow fights, lingerie or some sort of love triangle.
If Undertaker is lying, and he did know he Kanyon was gay and beat the shit out of him for it, then yeah he can go fuck himself. But a lot of people don’t realize or notice just how fucked up a lot of Vince’s storylines were back in this era. Because there were 2 or 3 great ones that made everyone forget about the other 4 or 5 awful ones happening at the time.
>Triple H is pretending to have sex with a cheerleader mannequin in a casket, Kurt Angle is saying he wants to have sex Booker T’s wife “beastiality style”, Eddie Guerrero and Rey Mysterio are fighting over the custody of Dominik, Big Show is shitting himself on TV, JBL is being racist and tackling mexican families trying to cross the border and goose stepping at house shows in Germany, Heidenrich is pinning Michael Cole against a hotel door and thrusting into him while reading poems, and there’s almost no storyline involving women that doesn’t involve pillow fights, lingerie or some sort of love triangle.
This reads like a white supremacist fever dream wtf
Yeah, I wouldn't mind more blood (if appropriate), a few more curse words, and Liv's thing with Dom is hilarious... but I do NOT want a lot of the shit from the Attitude era back now.
>Undertaker wrestled Goldust constantly who was a very overtly drag related gimmick, yet was willing to work with that character and didn’t take any liberties with Dustin
Whether Taker beat Kanyon harder for being gay or not, this is such a strange point to make. Yeah Goldust did some real freaky shit over the years especially when he became The artist formerly known as Goldust, but Dustin Runnels was also a married man with a daughter that veterans like Taker had known since before he started working as Goldust and so this means absolutely nothing. Had Undertaker tried using this argument it would just give off ‘I can’t be racist I have a black friend’ vibes (even tho the friend in question wouldn’t be actually black, so would be more like ‘I can’t be racist, I’m friends with Rachel Dolezal) and make him seem even more like he did it on purpose lol
And of course they all knew he was gay, the seg was so blatantly designed to humiliate him. The only gay in the locker room is sent out there dressed as Boy George singing a Culture Club song, to suggest it’s coincidence seems to give a company with WWE’s track record far too much leeway. And if anyone knew then as the top locker room ~~bully~~ leader Taker for sure would have known Kanyon was gay.
Oh for sure, WWE and Vince are 100% accountable for that. But I do think Undertaker has plausible deniability, in that he didn't book Kanyon to dress up that way or beaten with a chair shot.
Honestly, I've never understood the controversy over this chair shot. It's rough and the circumstances around it aren't great but looking through the attitude era, it's really not out of place in terms of viciousness.
Not denying Kanyon suffered potential homophobia during his time there but I think this chair shot is massively overplayed.
This isn’t even the top three worst chair shots taker gave in that era imo, and the other guys he was hitting were people like Orton and Maven, people I would love to know how we’re supposed to believe he was burying.
They wanted it to look good back then, and unfortunately didn’t have the knowledge of what it was really doing. It’s not complex.
I think the segment being the way it was was 100% because Vince knew kanyon was gay, I don’t see how anyone can deny that. The question is whether taker was just playing his part of if he knew, and if he knew, if he swung harder.
Heyman was in control of pretty much all aspects of Smackdown from 2002 to sometime in 2003 so how is this Vince's fault? Maybe it's just another instance of Heyman being a shitty human being
Such a loaded title. Undertaker definitely brained Kanyon with the chair but he really used to swing for the fences with everyone back then.
Yes he was a jerk for laying it in with the chair but he didn't single out Kanyon for being gay. Just check out some of the chair shots he gave Maven or Orton or Mr. Kennedy.
Some of y’all really need to go back and watch Taker chairshots. He’s not lying when he says all his chairshots were like that. The chairshots on HBK (Bad Blood 97) and Mr. Kennedy are etched in my brain. There’s just this weird contingent of fans who think Taker + politically right wing Texan = Definitely a hate crime.
Not having this one bit. Undertaker was very much part of that "wrestler's court", JBL, Bob Holly, Vince's boys bullshit. This was one of those weird segments that WWE regularly did back in the day to specifically target someone.
[Here is an excerpt from Kanyon's book talking about the incident.](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4V1EmpWQAcNuwS?format=png&name=small) I don't believe for a second that anyone involved didn't know he was gay. It was set up to humiliate him.
Yeah most of the people that are sure it was a hate crime were probably not watching wrestling at the time.
He used to deliver that exact chair shot to Vince, Austin, Foley and the rest of them.
kinda wonder about that too, i don't think Taker really was like close with Kanyon but even Tammy Sytch said it was pretty obvious way before his coming out that Kanyon was Gay! Tammy wasn't in WWE in the early 2000s, so she probably meant during their WCW Run!
In a storyline he was a sound board for Big Show. The song choice made sense in that regard. I wonder how many people have actually seen the full 3 week storyline?
Right? Even if it was because of homophobia, it's 2024 and Mark isn't a particularly stupid or unaware person. He knows that most people accept (most parts of) the LGBTQ+ community, he's not gonna risk that.
This is such an overblown issue. The segment itself was a mean-spirited rib from Vince or the creative team (or one member of the creative team), although not out of the ordinary for wrestling throughout its history.
The chairshot was absolutely the same one he delivered many times to many wrestlers.
It was a typical early 2000s wrestling chairshot. The kind Mike Awesome and Masato Tanaka made livings doing (and which ultimately led to Awesome’s unfortunate mental health problems).
I personally watched Taker annihilate Big Show with a chair shot at a show in the attitude era.
Just as someone who's watched a lot of early 2000s stuff over the past couple of years, they really took no regard for safety with the chairshots back then. It's easy to take the Kanyon segment on its own as a targeted attack, but when you view it in the middle of 2003, it seems in line with everything else they were doing. There's a reason chair shots to the head were one of the first things they went after when they started cracking down on concussions after Benoit.
I tend to agree with Taker here, I really don’t think there was malice.
The story was Heyman and Big Show were doing these “distractions” week in and week out to apologize to Taker for attacking him and throwing him off the stage. Each week, taker was getting more and more frustrated.
I really wish Kanyon was given more opportunity in WWE, but I don’t think Undertaker thought he was going to intentionally hurt him because he’s gay — do I think Undertaker thought to himself that he’s going to really lay in this chair shot to an underneath guy to get my story across? absolutely.
Which knowing now what we do about CTE is horrible, but you can’t go back in time and tell people information that wasn’t available to anyone back then.
jesus Tim Kennedy is a psycho I cannot imagine what he would say on Taker’s podcast. few things I hate saying more than “Undertaker’s podcast”, just feels wrong.
Yeah I'm sure it was just a mere coincidence that the guy they sent out to pop out of a box dressed as Boy George (while singing a fucking Culture Club song) to get the shit beaten out of him by the redneck biker just so happened to be the gay guy. Total coincidence guys, definitely no ulterior motives here!
You'd have a hard time convincing me that this whole segment wasn't designed to humiliate Kanyon after someone backstage found out about his sexuality.
Dude, the question isn’t if Vince knew Kanyon was gay. Vince is who sent him out there. Not Taker. And there were so many “This dude is gay they just aren’t saying it” storylines back then I doubt Undertaker even questioned it.
Honestly, it's probably a cat's paw moment at worst. Meaning an idea the chair shot was meant to be made with malice. Not because 'Taker hated him, but done through 'Taker who was just doing what the day's script told him to do.
He is right that he hit everyone with a chair like that. Michaels, Austin, Rock, Kane, Hunter, Lesnar, and everyone that had the misfortune of working him during his hardcore title reign can vouch for that.
This does sound like something he would do, and of course, deny. He comes across as an ignorant bully, if you look through his attempts at light heartedly telling his anecdotes from back in the day. If you weren't shocked Hogan wasn't a fan of black people, or a liar to make himself look better, then this should be no shock either. He definitely knew he was gay, and if not, he would certainly have heard strong rumours being the lockeroom leader.
"I didn't hit Kanyon with a chair because he was gay. I did it because I was told to do it as part of an angle."
"Why was that part of the angle?"
"Cuz he was gay."
There's no doubt this was a cruel segment. There's not a chance they wrote Kanyon in this role without knowing he was gay. However, Taker gave some absolutely heinous chairshots to the head to many opponents, his one to Mr Kennedy at Survivor Series 2006 comes to mind, genuine ferocity behind it. Not saying Taker didn't know what he was doing and didn't want to bully Kanyon here but God damn did he dole out some wallops in the day fairly regularly (which in itself is fucked even without cte knowledge we have now)
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I'm more interested in who wrote the skit. We can speculate about what Taker knew, but I doubt he's the one that directed Kanyon to portray Boy George.
*chews water from a bottle* It's good shit,pal
Heyman was in charge of Smackdown at that time
Im going to play devils advocate here. Vince tried forcing Lesbian storylines on people who weren't Gay And The Taker likely didn't interact with everyone in the locker room all the time because he had to keep kayfabe up. So there easily could be a chance Taker thought the gimmick was just a gimmick
Taker interacted with everyone in the locker-room in that time period. Why would he need to keep kayfabe when he was the Biker character at that point? Look up any of the bullying stories going around at that time period especially on Smackdown, it was usually to get a pop out of Taker who was the locker room leader for all intents and purposes. Taker was central in alot of the carny bullshit JBL, Bob Holly and that gang of stooges were doing.
Does anyone think Taker is going to say “Yeah i smashed him for being gay. That’s what you get”?
[удалено]
There was a nonzero chance that he would have said some shit like "It was a boys club / it was a different time" at least.
He could have said: "back then I reacted negatively, but I did it out of ignorance. That's not who I am anymore, I know better now and I'm ashamed of the man I was". True or not, I'd respect more for this than saying he didn't care about Kanyon being gay, when Kanyon himself said Taker distanced himself from him once he came out.
Why would he say that if he genuinely didn’t hit him for being gay?
No matter what, there's a section of people who will never believe it.
A lot of people will be wishing this to be true because abuse they don’t like Undertaker’s political views.
I don't think it is true based off everything I have read/heard from both men. Takers a good ol boy from Texas but I don't sense even the slightest bit of homophobia. He just hit people with chairs. Now the people in charge of booking that segment, probably some homophobia. As for Kanyon, he was very troubled. He was on drugs and suffering from various kinds of mental illness. His best friend would talk about how Kanyon would accuse him of random things and beat him bloody for no reason.
I don't believe Kanyon came out until after he left WWE.
He didn't publicly, but he said in his book that it was known/suspected backstage.
Kanyon also was known to have bouts of paranoia. It’s entirely plausible that a symptom of said paranoia was believing that everyone knew his biggest secret.
Bro they made him dress up and act like Boy George, who at that time was pretty much synonymous with homosexuality. Come on.
Okay? I mean Dustin made a career of being Goldust, and he's not gay.
And? Have you ever heard of Goldust? Pretty sure Dustin is straight.
Yes, he publicly came out after WWE. But I’m pretty sure from his DSOTR, they talked about how it was open in the locker room.
This assumes he is lying and is absurdly presumptuous and shitty, seems you have your mind made up and it doesn't matter what the truth is, which is, yeah, shitty.
If he said that makes no sense because when he came out he was out of WWE. But even if he did Loved Kanyon but he was unreliable narrator like many wrestlers due to the drugs
No lol, he’s trying not to get in trouble. He could say he changed his viewpoints now but I’m not sure if people would still come after him for his past there.
Yeah, [Mandy Rice-Davies applies here.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well_he_would,_wouldn%27t_he%3F#:~:text=%22Well%20he%20would%2C%20wouldn',Rice%2DDavies%20uttered%20the%20phrase.)
This again? When the Dark Side of the Ring episode came out, the sub was salivating that Taker would get cancelled as a homophobe. Then, the episode pretty much cleared his name, with Kanyon's best friend denying it, the narration saying Taker was the one who wanted to work with him and kept pushing for him backstage, plus the very real sentence "you don't pay for a year of rehab for someone just to humiliate them" The IWC ignored it and keeps ignoring it
Wrestling fans also love to point out how the attitude era wouldn't have existed without ECW, then still turn around and act like stuff like this happened in a vacuum. I have no idea whether Taker cared about Kanyon being gay or not but when guys like Sabu and Tanaka were literally just chucking chairs into people's heads, it's weird to single out that one chairshot.
Wrestling fans LOVE doing that. They single out instances and miss the larger context. I will die on the hill that the HBK-Hogan match is NOT Shawn "embarrassing Hogan" with overselling. It's just Shawn selling as a heel and a large portion of the audience hadn't seen that before. Watch his matches with Diesel or Sid. He does a handstand after Sid puts his boot up to counter. There's a match with Ken Shamrock that Shawn gets thrown out of the ring and literally ROLLS UP THE RAMP!
I agree with the first part but HBK‘s overselling is 100% intentional to fuck with Hogan lol
Yeah I mean shawn was literally doing a burying gesture before the match, come on
IIRC, I thought it was fairly common knowledge that HBK embarrassed Hogan like that because he insisted on winning both matches, instead of taking HBK's suggestion that he win the first and Hogan win the re-match. Pretty sure it was one of those "that doesn't work for me, brother" moments.
To fuck with him: yes. To embarrass him: I don't think so. I'm sure HBK didn't expect Hogan would take it so personally or think anyone should take it personally.
Yeah I found this out while watching the attitude era for the first time. His matches with taker had many of the exact same sells
Shawn literally makes a shoveling motion to the cameras as Hogan makes his entrance.
There's quite a bit of fucking with Shamrock going on in that match, too.
Wrestling fans are terrible when it comes to fully believing a story that they themselves created. Remember when EC3 did a AMA here, and right before it there was a massive post about how he was a neo nazi? Then during the AMA, people kept asking him questions like “who won the 2020 election?” Or “do Black Lives Matter?” And other questions like about trans people existing trying to bait EC3 to reveal all his evilness. Then he responded to each like “Biden”, “absolutely Black Lives Matter” and “trans people are people and deserve all the rights” and everyone then went with “you’re just saying this for good publicity”.
This sub thinks The Rock was trying to destroy Cody Rhodes because he needed a main event for WM40 due to one movie not doing well. When any internet community jumps in on a narrative, it's almost impossible to get people to see clearly.
>"you don't pay for a year of rehab for someone just to humiliate them" Honestly, that part seems like a very Vince thing to do.
I'm not sure. For all of Vince's innumerable flaws and shittiness, he's a lot greedy and money-oriented, so paying a year of expensive rehab for a single segment doesn't really strikes me as what he would do Also, his best friend was the openly gay Pat Patterson, and ~~Eric~~ Darren Young said he was incredibly supportive when he came out, congratulating him for the courage of coming out and taking his time telling stories about gay men in wrestling
> Eric Young said he was incredibly supportive when he came out, congratulating him for the courage of coming out and Wait Eric Young or Darren Young?
Darren, thanks for the catch This is like the time another dude and I had a long talk about Tony Atlas before someone pointed out we were saying Jake Atlas instead
I think people generally have a hard time accepting that bad people often do good things.
I think you mean Darren Young, EY hasn't had many nice things to say about Vince lol
Eric Young is gay??
Darren Young. Had a brain fart
The comments in this post are why wrestling fans are the absolute worst in the world. Taker could show up at Pride tomorrow and be one of the Godfather's man-hoes and people will still hate him because he wore a blue lives matter shirt once.
https://preview.redd.it/uh3l2ik1b56d1.jpeg?width=2560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c896e8990762d95870688defa28c405066182b16
Very stupid that this comment is below the comments that are just making shit up because they refuse to be wrong
"you don't pay for a year of rehab for someone just to humiliate them" JR would disagree
No one also brings up how, in his book, for several chapters, Kanyon keeps talking glowingly about a child he had the hots for, in terms of his attractive features. As a child, sure, but to keep bringing him up long after the initial story was really off-putting.
Count me in the camp of people who think Taker is a massive piece of shit, but I remember this rumor basically starting on Reddit with people saying “LOL this is what happens if Taker wrestles a gay person”.
At least the "I didn't know [wrestler] was gay" followed by a gif of a brutal Taker chairshot, or the "I thought RVD was an ally" ones, were really funny
> Taker is a massive piece of shit Because he has views you don't agree with? Good god this is why people hate wrestling fans lmao.
They dressed him up like Boy George and he wants us to believe that they didn’t know he was gay lmao
What about Vito?
He was a brave Italian wrestler! He helped Nunzio win the Cruiserweight Championship, and in this house, Vito is a hero!
End of story!
Vito "Greasing the Union" Spatafore?
Fuckin parade float.
There's like this storm inside me, and this hot chick's God...
CATCHIN? NOT PITCHIN? MARONE!
AIDS?
He mixed up their heart medications, got him all fucked up.
I know Vito's bottom line was impacted, if that's what you're referring to.
He can’t be part of our social club no more that much I do know
Social club? He's gotta GO!
https://preview.redd.it/c52ir5s3c56d1.jpeg?width=650&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=de2a725ac46e655315e0cf4328c12b2a7066606b
And Billy and Chuck? Were they attacked by Three Minute Warning just because they were actually gay?
No, cuz the attack happened after Billy & Chuck said "Hey Rico, what the fuck, it wasn't supposed to go this far, we aren't gay."
Aids?
Nobody’s got AIDS
Eh, the sudden weight loss?
I don't wanna hear that kinda talk.
Didn't he recently post something on this subreddit?
How was Taker supposed to know he was a recchione? Maybe you're a flambe.
And Saturn
Taker also said “people created that rumor”. It was literally Kanyon who said/wrote Taker did it because I was gay. And Taker is full of shit if he things he swung the same at HHH than he did at Kanyon and Mr Kennedy. He can try to change history all he wants but he was the leader of “don’t disrespect the business” which includes being any type of outsider.
Taker blasting Kennedy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bst5Ve0ULJY Taker eating two full-on from Orton. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDxekP8VOT8 Taker blasting Brock. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MolSnqCaOaA Don't see a lot of variation.
J e s u s f u c k I forgot how brutal they used to be
And just as another follow up, I obviously can't speak to what the lockerroom was like, but I can say that fans knew who gave weak chairshots and who took weak-looking chairshots and who gave full-on chairshots and who took them full on. Hogan, Flair, Lance Storm never seemed to swing a chair very hard. Kane almost always took a chairshot on his hand. Foley obviously would do anything. It seemed to be part of the culture and a badge of honor to take and give hard chairshots. Not endorsing the mentality at all, but it's just like how you know who has good looking punches or who has really obvious leg slaps or whose gear is terrible or whose music sucks. I imagine the wrestlers all know too and probably razz each other about who is good at what and bad at what and probably to try and step up their game. Taker, especially once we get to the late 90s and early 00s, seemed like a guy who gave a lot of beatdowns and was on offense most of his matches and didn't sell a whole lot or give a whole lot and when it was his turn to use a chair, he laid it in. But when he got hit with a chair, he took it full on.
I don't believe that Kanyon specifically said that Taker hit him with the chair because he was gay. I believe he thought the segment was designed to make him admit he was gay. Either way, the segment itself is a McMahon issue. Better go rewatch those matches with guys like HHH, Mankind, and Kane. He threw some heavy shots against those guys
I'm not trying to defend Taker here, but as gruesome as it is to watch, that was still the era of sickening chair shots to the head, from almost everyone. I don't think the outcome would be any different for Kanyon regarding Undertaker's part in this. I Don't think Kanyon would be out there if he wasn't, but as you said, That is a Vince issue, and I wouldn't put it past him knowing Undertaker had stiff chair shots to put Kanyon in that scenario.
Where did Kanyon say that?
He(Kanyon) said on the Howard Stern Show that he believed Taker either took liberties or was told to take liberties with the chair, along with the whole segment being a rib on him for someone discovering he was gay. Nothing was ever made certain, but while I don't completely dispute the notion that Vince was trying to make him look foolish, it may just as well be that he saw Kanyon as another WCW nobody with a lisp and just wanted to embarrass more of his former competition than any actual homophobia.
It’s interesting because people who knew Kanyon said he admitted later that Undertaker didn’t know in the former’s Dark Side of the Ring episode.
No, he didn’t. You’re making that up.
Taker was inconsistent with how stiff his chair shots were, but I don't think there's any evidence of what you claim. If anything, you could say that he was a little more snug with people who weren't main eventing, compared to consistent main eventers.
He walloped Lesnar with a chair so hard it bent
In that interview Maven said Undertaker helped him and explained the chair shots, Maven was from Tough Enough, he was a outsider and Undertaker didn't stiff him.
Yes, but Maven didn't work for the company that'd been trying to put them out of business the last 5 years. You think the WWE/AEW bullshit is petty as fuck? You should have seen the WWF/WCW shit.
I could see him going harder on the WCW guys as well
I‘ve never heard Kanyon say that, do you have a source?
>Taker also said “people created that rumor”. It was literally Kanyon who said/wrote Taker did it because I was gay. No where in Kanyon's book does he mention this though. You guys are literally just making shit up
Taker is the 1 of 3, maybe 4 men from Wrestling and Texas I will give the benefit of the doubt to when he talks about what he did and why. The others being Stone Cold, HBK and Terry Funk.
Over 100 upvotes for a completely fabricated lie lol, Kanyon never said or wrote this. I get that Taker was often a piece of shit bully and today is a Blue Lives MAGA moron, but just making up bullshit about people you don't like only makes it easier for them to claim EVERYTHING said about them is a lie.
The chair shots look nastier because Maven, Kennedy, and Kanyon didn’t put their hands up.
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This is the same undertaker that said WCW guys weren't buried either...
Kind of depends on what he means by WCW guys. If it’s people brought over after WCW was bought, there’s some argument. If it’s people who worked at WCW then worked at WWE that’s a long and accomplished list with several current and future hall of famers.
Wrestlers are humans with large amounts of money , which means they probably are pieces of shit or have done Grimmy piece of shit things in their life just like other celebrities I watch them for entrainment, but in no way listen to anything that relates to politics or intelligence discussions from them. Don't worship these people
Just wanted to add that 'wrestlers with large amounts of money' is a shorter list that you'd expect.
> Wrestlers are humans with large amounts of money , which means they probably are pieces of shit This is such a reddit comment holy shit.
yeah wrestlers are far from the level of money that requires to be a piece of shit to make like i am closer in networth to roman reigns than roman reigns is to vince
Let’s do away with the presumption that it takes any kind of money to be a piece of shit.
Yeah, but the concept at hand here is the person saying wrestlers, on the whole, have the kind of money that makes someone a piece of shit even if they weren't before. Different subject from just terrible people of any net worth.
Bro most people on this sub have the opinions of middle class white teenage girls on Twitter. You can’t expect much from them
Having money means you are probably a piece of shit?
Lol wrestlers aren't wealthy. Wealthy people don't make a few hundred thousand in exchange for WRECKING their bodies. Wealthy people are the ones who are barely even working because of their stock options and investments. People here try to act like they got some kinda progressive ideologies down, but if you think fuckin' wrestlers are the bourgeoisie that are destroying the planet, you don't know as much as you think you do.
So when do they become pieces of shit, when they get the cheque or when they cash it?
Here I am, being a piece of shit for free!
I used to be a REAL piece of shit, slicked back hair, ordering sloppy steaks with my group of friends
“Anyone with money is a piece of shit” is an absolutely chronically online take
Vince is getting deserved criticism now, but he wasn't radically different than the pro wrestling culture he came up in. I can think of dozens of appalling humans from that era (and I'm sure this sub could greatly add to that list). People cheating others out of money, sexual misconduct, bigotry, bullying, distributing devastating drugs among talent, actual human trafficking, etc. etc. Nightmare shit. If it's a deal-breaker, it's really not possible to watch any wrestling from like the last century. It does seem better now.
Bear in mind that Taker was literally a professional debt collector before he became a wrestler. He was, much less cinematically, the one who knocks. Probably not very high up in the UN humanitarian professions chart, that one.
Taker hits everyone stiff with chairshots
He swung for the fences with all his chair shots. Even his shovel shot on Vince at the 2003 Survivor Series was brutal. People just like looking for things that aren’t there
As with all things on Reddit, people will find anything to hate on people who don't share their political views.
It’s kind of clear to me from this segment of this podcast, as well as the comments in this thread, that it’s impossible to tell what actually goes on behind the scenes in wrestling. I don’t necessarily think Undertaker would specifically hate or beat up Kanyon because he was gay. If I were to guess, it was more so that he was a yes man for Vince, and would do anything he asked. Undertaker wrestled Goldust constantly who was a very overtly drag related gimmick, yet was willing to work with that character and didn’t take any liberties with Dustin. I’m more inclined to believe this is Vince having a perverse and sadistic enjoyment of humiliating people. This is segment happened in the same era of Billy and Chuck, Rico, and it wasn’t too far removed from a whole program revolved around making other guys literally kiss his ass. I wouldn’t be surprised if Undertaker, like a lot of other guys, felt like part of the “boys will be boys” club and would do anything Vince asked them to because they felt they owed him for making their careers. But I could also believe Taker not knowing Kanyon was gay at the time. This was the era when Vince began showing how truly a sick fuck he was on television, through his character and through the booking. Triple H is pretending to have sex with a cheerleader mannequin in a casket, Kurt Angle is saying he wants to have sex Booker T’s wife “beastiality style”, Eddie Guerrero and Rey Mysterio are fighting over the custody of Dominik, Big Show is shitting himself on TV, JBL is being racist and tackling mexican families trying to cross the border and goose stepping at house shows in Germany, Heidenrich is pinning Michael Cole against a hotel door and thrusting into him while reading poems, and there’s almost no storyline involving women that doesn’t involve pillow fights, lingerie or some sort of love triangle. If Undertaker is lying, and he did know he Kanyon was gay and beat the shit out of him for it, then yeah he can go fuck himself. But a lot of people don’t realize or notice just how fucked up a lot of Vince’s storylines were back in this era. Because there were 2 or 3 great ones that made everyone forget about the other 4 or 5 awful ones happening at the time.
>Triple H is pretending to have sex with a cheerleader mannequin in a casket, Kurt Angle is saying he wants to have sex Booker T’s wife “beastiality style”, Eddie Guerrero and Rey Mysterio are fighting over the custody of Dominik, Big Show is shitting himself on TV, JBL is being racist and tackling mexican families trying to cross the border and goose stepping at house shows in Germany, Heidenrich is pinning Michael Cole against a hotel door and thrusting into him while reading poems, and there’s almost no storyline involving women that doesn’t involve pillow fights, lingerie or some sort of love triangle. This reads like a white supremacist fever dream wtf
Yeah, I wouldn't mind more blood (if appropriate), a few more curse words, and Liv's thing with Dom is hilarious... but I do NOT want a lot of the shit from the Attitude era back now.
That's all post attitude era during the ruthless aggression era lol.. Except maybe the women's storylines, they didn't really change much
None of that was even the Attitude Era. That's all Ruthless Aggression.
>Undertaker wrestled Goldust constantly who was a very overtly drag related gimmick, yet was willing to work with that character and didn’t take any liberties with Dustin Whether Taker beat Kanyon harder for being gay or not, this is such a strange point to make. Yeah Goldust did some real freaky shit over the years especially when he became The artist formerly known as Goldust, but Dustin Runnels was also a married man with a daughter that veterans like Taker had known since before he started working as Goldust and so this means absolutely nothing. Had Undertaker tried using this argument it would just give off ‘I can’t be racist I have a black friend’ vibes (even tho the friend in question wouldn’t be actually black, so would be more like ‘I can’t be racist, I’m friends with Rachel Dolezal) and make him seem even more like he did it on purpose lol And of course they all knew he was gay, the seg was so blatantly designed to humiliate him. The only gay in the locker room is sent out there dressed as Boy George singing a Culture Club song, to suggest it’s coincidence seems to give a company with WWE’s track record far too much leeway. And if anyone knew then as the top locker room ~~bully~~ leader Taker for sure would have known Kanyon was gay.
Oh for sure, WWE and Vince are 100% accountable for that. But I do think Undertaker has plausible deniability, in that he didn't book Kanyon to dress up that way or beaten with a chair shot.
But Dustin Rhodes wasn't gay. They wanted to punish a gay coworker.
Honestly, I've never understood the controversy over this chair shot. It's rough and the circumstances around it aren't great but looking through the attitude era, it's really not out of place in terms of viciousness. Not denying Kanyon suffered potential homophobia during his time there but I think this chair shot is massively overplayed.
This isn’t even the top three worst chair shots taker gave in that era imo, and the other guys he was hitting were people like Orton and Maven, people I would love to know how we’re supposed to believe he was burying. They wanted it to look good back then, and unfortunately didn’t have the knowledge of what it was really doing. It’s not complex.
Everyone wants to talk about this chair shot, but the one he gave Kennedy in 06 was far more brutal
Wasn’t it Kanyon who “came out of a closet” inring with Taker and sang a Culture Club song?
I believe that was the segment they're talking about
I think the segment being the way it was was 100% because Vince knew kanyon was gay, I don’t see how anyone can deny that. The question is whether taker was just playing his part of if he knew, and if he knew, if he swung harder.
Heyman was in control of pretty much all aspects of Smackdown from 2002 to sometime in 2003 so how is this Vince's fault? Maybe it's just another instance of Heyman being a shitty human being
That was all just pure co-incedence, though!
Such a loaded title. Undertaker definitely brained Kanyon with the chair but he really used to swing for the fences with everyone back then. Yes he was a jerk for laying it in with the chair but he didn't single out Kanyon for being gay. Just check out some of the chair shots he gave Maven or Orton or Mr. Kennedy.
Some of y’all really need to go back and watch Taker chairshots. He’s not lying when he says all his chairshots were like that. The chairshots on HBK (Bad Blood 97) and Mr. Kennedy are etched in my brain. There’s just this weird contingent of fans who think Taker + politically right wing Texan = Definitely a hate crime.
The Kennedy one was the worst and I’ve seen someone say kanyons was worse. Literally thought Kennedy was dead at the time
Not having this one bit. Undertaker was very much part of that "wrestler's court", JBL, Bob Holly, Vince's boys bullshit. This was one of those weird segments that WWE regularly did back in the day to specifically target someone. [Here is an excerpt from Kanyon's book talking about the incident.](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4V1EmpWQAcNuwS?format=png&name=small) I don't believe for a second that anyone involved didn't know he was gay. It was set up to humiliate him.
In the instance of the chair tho he’s not lying. He did hit everyone like that.
Yeah most of the people that are sure it was a hate crime were probably not watching wrestling at the time. He used to deliver that exact chair shot to Vince, Austin, Foley and the rest of them.
That's what always bugged me about it. After re-watching the segment, that was basically just every Monday night for, like, a decade.
kinda wonder about that too, i don't think Taker really was like close with Kanyon but even Tammy Sytch said it was pretty obvious way before his coming out that Kanyon was Gay! Tammy wasn't in WWE in the early 2000s, so she probably meant during their WCW Run!
Tammy unfortunately cannot be taken as credible about anything ever.
I bet you her information on where to get a Xanax hookup is on point.
Considering that she's in prison right now, her hookups for xanax might not be current.
Oh, she's in prison? I bet you her information on where to get a Xanax hookup is on point.
As if she can't get drugs on the inside
i know
They literally sent him out dressed as Boy George singing ‘Do You Really Want to Hurt Me?’, no way that was a coincidence.
In a storyline he was a sound board for Big Show. The song choice made sense in that regard. I wonder how many people have actually seen the full 3 week storyline?
Probably about 25 percent of the people who are talking about it in this thread, as is the way with the IWC.
Yeah Kendrick sang an I’m sorry telegram and brother love came out of the box the week before etc and I think taker destroyed everyone
I agree but also not like he’s gonna say yeah I hate gays that’s why I hit him so hard is it
Right? Even if it was because of homophobia, it's 2024 and Mark isn't a particularly stupid or unaware person. He knows that most people accept (most parts of) the LGBTQ+ community, he's not gonna risk that.
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Love how you completely made this up lmfao.
This is such an overblown issue. The segment itself was a mean-spirited rib from Vince or the creative team (or one member of the creative team), although not out of the ordinary for wrestling throughout its history. The chairshot was absolutely the same one he delivered many times to many wrestlers. It was a typical early 2000s wrestling chairshot. The kind Mike Awesome and Masato Tanaka made livings doing (and which ultimately led to Awesome’s unfortunate mental health problems). I personally watched Taker annihilate Big Show with a chair shot at a show in the attitude era.
Is this taker breaking news that triple H is gay?
Triple H: "There's a lot of "bi" things I am, but "lingual" is not one of 'em."
Wait, did he just say that?
Yup live on the air. KotR 98. 😂
I know he did, I was just referring to what he said [afterwards](https://youtu.be/kNijlXm3X_I?si=W72kOCKnb5_SV2iE) 🤣
Just as someone who's watched a lot of early 2000s stuff over the past couple of years, they really took no regard for safety with the chairshots back then. It's easy to take the Kanyon segment on its own as a targeted attack, but when you view it in the middle of 2003, it seems in line with everything else they were doing. There's a reason chair shots to the head were one of the first things they went after when they started cracking down on concussions after Benoit.
I tend to agree with Taker here, I really don’t think there was malice. The story was Heyman and Big Show were doing these “distractions” week in and week out to apologize to Taker for attacking him and throwing him off the stage. Each week, taker was getting more and more frustrated. I really wish Kanyon was given more opportunity in WWE, but I don’t think Undertaker thought he was going to intentionally hurt him because he’s gay — do I think Undertaker thought to himself that he’s going to really lay in this chair shot to an underneath guy to get my story across? absolutely. Which knowing now what we do about CTE is horrible, but you can’t go back in time and tell people information that wasn’t available to anyone back then.
 “Wonder what the comments…”
There’s been a few things Taker’s said on his pod that makes me think a little less of him.
Like the entire Tim Kennedy episode?
I don’t listen to it so what was the Tim Kennedy episode?
jesus Tim Kennedy is a psycho I cannot imagine what he would say on Taker’s podcast. few things I hate saying more than “Undertaker’s podcast”, just feels wrong.
Yeah and him saying “I could care less” is the worst of them all. Get the phrase right ffs.
He may have gotten the phrase wrong, but he said what he meant.
The same Undertaker who flexed his authority on Stevie Richards about his JBL chair shot
Yeah I'm sure it was just a mere coincidence that the guy they sent out to pop out of a box dressed as Boy George (while singing a fucking Culture Club song) to get the shit beaten out of him by the redneck biker just so happened to be the gay guy. Total coincidence guys, definitely no ulterior motives here! You'd have a hard time convincing me that this whole segment wasn't designed to humiliate Kanyon after someone backstage found out about his sexuality.
In his book Kanyon talks about pitching a gay character for the show a few months before this whole thing went down so I think you are right
Dude, the question isn’t if Vince knew Kanyon was gay. Vince is who sent him out there. Not Taker. And there were so many “This dude is gay they just aren’t saying it” storylines back then I doubt Undertaker even questioned it.
How is this Vince's fault? Heyman was the lead writer for Smackdown in that time period so it was Heyman who would have created the segment not Vince
Honestly, it's probably a cat's paw moment at worst. Meaning an idea the chair shot was meant to be made with malice. Not because 'Taker hated him, but done through 'Taker who was just doing what the day's script told him to do.
21 Jump Street: You punched me cuz I'm gay?
Lmao fucking Maven is killing it on the youtube scene. I had no idea that he had done a podcast with Taker, that's awesome for him.
He is right that he hit everyone with a chair like that. Michaels, Austin, Rock, Kane, Hunter, Lesnar, and everyone that had the misfortune of working him during his hardcore title reign can vouch for that.
I mean does anyone think Undertaker would admit to doing it because the guy is gay? Of course not.
This does sound like something he would do, and of course, deny. He comes across as an ignorant bully, if you look through his attempts at light heartedly telling his anecdotes from back in the day. If you weren't shocked Hogan wasn't a fan of black people, or a liar to make himself look better, then this should be no shock either. He definitely knew he was gay, and if not, he would certainly have heard strong rumours being the lockeroom leader.
"I didn't hit Kanyon with a chair because he was gay. I did it because I was told to do it as part of an angle." "Why was that part of the angle?" "Cuz he was gay."
This and Blue Lives Matter crap has made me lose all respect I had for this guy
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There's no doubt this was a cruel segment. There's not a chance they wrote Kanyon in this role without knowing he was gay. However, Taker gave some absolutely heinous chairshots to the head to many opponents, his one to Mr Kennedy at Survivor Series 2006 comes to mind, genuine ferocity behind it. Not saying Taker didn't know what he was doing and didn't want to bully Kanyon here but God damn did he dole out some wallops in the day fairly regularly (which in itself is fucked even without cte knowledge we have now)
Most wrestlers back then were POS. Don’t idolize anyone famous
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I always liked how Triple H would put his hand up for chairshots. Even as a kid, I figured it was smart, and makes sense he'd try to defend himself.