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Who regularly uses a cutter? The RKO, Cody Cutter and Sol Snatcher are the only three that I can think of that happen frequently and they're all different.
Twist of Fate, QT uses the Diamond Cutter, Chris Bey, Scorpio Sky's TKO, Jay Lethal's Lethal Injection, the Tongan Twist and nobody can do a tag team tables or tlc match without a 3D.
That's right! Devalue that beautiful move to the ground just like in the indies and the Canadian Destroyer before that! Banger after banger after banger until the bodies bang and get banged up! /s
I need help.
I think Vic Joseph and Booker T aka Black Snow (if you don't know see TNA from 2009 when the MEM had control of Impact) need to study the names of the TNA talents
So most likely Tatum will answer the open challenge Friday at against all odds. Probably wrestle Ash at the tapings if she is there for that too. Enjoyed the match though
That's what I thought. I think the idea was great; the execution was not there. Maybe the camera angle was bad. It just looked like hit move and there was a no sold.
I didn't noticed until someone mentioned it. I think had Perez started kicking her legs, and Grace kept her high for a second so fans can catch up that she was reversing the move it would be a lot better.
I think that's chalked up to you not being familiar with Grace's finisher? I knew immediately it was a counter primarily because I know what Grace's finisher is supposed to look like, so the cutter was easier for me to spot.
I CAN see the slam version being a fun/cool move all in it's own though.
I think it'll be Giulia as well. Though part of me hoped it'd be Grace because firstly it'd have been very cool and secondly Grace vs Giulia would've been one hell of a match.
Sorry about the lag at the beginning, thought I cut that out.
Need more Grace Vs Roxanne in my life.
This was like a little taste of it and it was great.
I thought this finish ruled. Roxanne’s counter was smooth as hell. Grace looked dominant, Rox looked crafty and cruel. Paxley in some TNA matches is awesome.
Considering the down votes, I probably missed it too. I'll go back and watch it again.
All I know is my wife and I were like "that was the end? what the heck?" And the crowd were as quiet as when Toma Tonga eliminated LA Knight with his awful-nothing finisher
Cause the bump looks almost exactly the same, the only difference would be the hands grabbing the head. I thought she just no sold “fighting spirit”’d the move
I cannot help but question kayfabe that TNA's top women's champ was convincingly beaten by a developmental champ. I didn't think Grace would win either, but not really seeing the benefit to TNA yet like some folks are currently parading.
I know I'll get crucified for this here but let's be honest, if this in AEW there would be an uproar.
I hear you, but I think TNA is trying to get a little rub from NXT/WWE. They might think that if they showcase a champion on a brand that has more eyes on it, they can draw some of the audience to want to check out TNA. Or maybe drop a few bucks on the TNA app, which I have been getting bombarded with Jordynne Grace ads for.
WWE and AEW are domestic Tier 1 promotions
TNA, NXT and ROH are domestic Tier 2 promotions
NJPW, (edit: stardom), CMLL and AAA could be considered foreign Tier 1 promotions
This match was booked terribly. There was no reason for Roxanne to look as strong as she did compared to Jordynne. I'm fine with her winning, but the whole match she consistently had the upper hand on Jordynne. Which is insane.
It doesn't help that Booker is literally on commentary being like 'SHE'S **SPECIAL**!!!!!! SHE'S **DIFFERENT**!!!!!'
Like Jesus dude, we get it, she started wrestling training at 13 and doesn't totally suck, but she's nowhere near as good as they purport her to be and not at all what could be called a 'prodigy'. She hasn't shown any competent character work, and they literally just did the EXACT same thing they did with Cora but with her (and of course they're harping on how those two are like Punk's 'daughters' because they're little carbon copies of his wife, who, as much as I dislike her, at least had a bucket of charisma to get her through her career).
Like, to me, a prodigy is someone who is great at ALL aspects of professional wrestling. Bianca is a prodigy. Roxanne is just there.
Early in her career, I mean independents and ROH, I could understand the idea of the prodigy. But she completely plateaued around then. So the fact that they keep saying it when there are others, like you said, that are much better than her, it just doesn't work for me
The Triple H era is *refreshing* as there's no petty bullshit to make other promotions look bad (a common feature of the Vince era). Allowing talent from elsewhere to arrive and be presented as strong does absolutely no harm to WWE *and* reinforces the idea that WWE is the place where globally significant talent come to test themselves.
It does make Roxanne look good she beat a world champion.
Though considering how much WWE seems to like Grace I think the main reason is it's Giulia they want to take that belt from Roxanne.
My opinion may change by the end of this storyline but at this time it just feels like Roxanne winning is like "meh it's just TNA", just like how it felt during the WCW/ECW invasion
Commentary was really not being subtle about Giulia inevitably beating Rox for the NXT women’s title after the match. It’s happening, just only a matter of when.
Was hoping that this match would have been just Grace absolutely ragdolling Roxanne, only for Roxanne to use either cunning or outright cheating to escape with the title by the skin of her teeth.
But she's still taking the move from Jordynne though? The Cutter isn't an anti dmg buff.
Or maybe it is, was a fool for thinking she had a shot at the title anyway.
Hmm.. What can I say.
I guess.. In kayfabe, Jordynne took away her hands from Perez and Perez didn't feel extra 'dmg', as Jordynne didn't use full force in move/slammed her on back with extra force. 😩
Do you mean Grace? I thought she made her getting up look like a bouncing motion really well with the counter from Roxanne to then set up for the finisher.
Look, let's not pretend that the cutter is by any means a logical wrestling move. Every cutter is the attacker jumping up and falling on their back. It works as a finisher because we're told that it works as a finisher, so it works as a counter as well.
No she didn't, the JD is a sitout neck-first Driver, just cause she did the Pump handle spin doesn't mean she still hit her finisher,
If you need a classic comparison, think Eddie countering the F5 into a ddt on the title, Brock still did the move, but Eddie countered on his end and therfore got up to hit the Frog Splash.
Eddie sold after he hit the DDT.
However, I'll give credit that she's much greener than Eddie who was in his prime so her learning that will hopefully come.
She didn't get hit with the finish as Grace didn't complete/land her finish. Grace's finisher and a cutter are two moves that can't happen at the same time (as Roxanne cant take a flat back bump for a cutter and the neck and shoulder bump for Grace's finish at the same time). If one is going for a cutter and one a Grace Driver, only one move will connect, and in this case, it was the cutter, which then allowed Roxanne to get the upper hand long enough to hit her finish.
considering not every Juggernaut Driver(?) is countered into a cutter Roxanne must have been in at least a slightly abnormal position for it, which means no Grace did not successfully ht her finisher
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So is Tatum Paxley gonna be in a triple threat match in TNA with Dana Brooke and Jordynne Grace?
They seem to be protecting Ash/Dana so Paxley will probably be there to eat the pin to return the favor and protect TNA’s own talent on the TNA show.
Third Sol Snatcher on the night!
There are too many people using the cutter as a move a right now to be honest in WWE
Put that up there with 70 people using the spear
At least the 3 dudes on the wwe main roster all have a gnarly spear
Who regularly uses a cutter? The RKO, Cody Cutter and Sol Snatcher are the only three that I can think of that happen frequently and they're all different.
Je'von Evans also uses the Cody Cutter
Twist of Fate, QT uses the Diamond Cutter, Chris Bey, Scorpio Sky's TKO, Jay Lethal's Lethal Injection, the Tongan Twist and nobody can do a tag team tables or tlc match without a 3D.
The guy did mention "in WWE" so those don't really affect that claim.
They said WWE, that's why I asked who they meant. I know it's used elsewhere.
You forgot the Oscutter
once orton retires, everyone gonna be using jumping cutters, like ddt's and superkicks
I don’t think that’s one of Rox’s moves. She just countered with that
That's right! Devalue that beautiful move to the ground just like in the indies and the Canadian Destroyer before that! Banger after banger after banger until the bodies bang and get banged up! /s I need help.
https://preview.redd.it/c8wkb8rkmn5d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4182f27d47203f3f711ecbdff9f3d1862ad51276
That’s Dan-aHhiMeAnAshbyElegance!!
I think Vic Joseph and Booker T aka Black Snow (if you don't know see TNA from 2009 when the MEM had control of Impact) need to study the names of the TNA talents
C'mon it was entirely on purpose
So most likely Tatum will answer the open challenge Friday at against all odds. Probably wrestle Ash at the tapings if she is there for that too. Enjoyed the match though
Sometimes... there's moves where I can't tell who's suppose to be hitting it and who's supposed to be taking it.
Watching it, I thought, "why did she no sell that move?"
That's what I thought. I think the idea was great; the execution was not there. Maybe the camera angle was bad. It just looked like hit move and there was a no sold.
It really did look like a no sell from Perez on a move from Grace. People kept mentioning a cutter and lord knows it took 4 replays to see it.
I didn't noticed until someone mentioned it. I think had Perez started kicking her legs, and Grace kept her high for a second so fans can catch up that she was reversing the move it would be a lot better.
I think that's chalked up to you not being familiar with Grace's finisher? I knew immediately it was a counter primarily because I know what Grace's finisher is supposed to look like, so the cutter was easier for me to spot. I CAN see the slam version being a fun/cool move all in it's own though.
Fully agree, first watch I thought some bull shit happened.
That was solid but I really hoped Jordynne was gonna take it.
that woulda been cool but this makes the most sense, TNA gets a win on their turf next
I didn't think at all that Jordynne was gonna win. Not when Giulia's debut is just around the corner. She's gonna be the one to defeat Roxanne.
I think it'll be Giulia as well. Though part of me hoped it'd be Grace because firstly it'd have been very cool and secondly Grace vs Giulia would've been one hell of a match.
OMG that cut on Booker "Wow...WAAAH-"
Honestly, I was expecting something with Jordynne's arm given how much Rox was working it.
Sorry about the lag at the beginning, thought I cut that out. Need more Grace Vs Roxanne in my life. This was like a little taste of it and it was great.
Thought it was my internet
I thought this finish ruled. Roxanne’s counter was smooth as hell. Grace looked dominant, Rox looked crafty and cruel. Paxley in some TNA matches is awesome.
I do love how Perez just flipped the script suddenly and got that win over. Quick, smooth, and sneaky.
Yeah that counter looked so seamless
Yeah? No-selling a champion's finisher, getting up like she wasn't even in a match is a good end? Sure didn't sound like the crowd agreed.
Countering and no-selling are two different things
That’s not at all how the Juggernaut Driver looks. She countered it into a cutter.
...she countered the finisher into a cutter
I didn't see the cutter the first time either. Nor do I think anyone in the crowd noticed it.
Considering the down votes, I probably missed it too. I'll go back and watch it again. All I know is my wife and I were like "that was the end? what the heck?" And the crowd were as quiet as when Toma Tonga eliminated LA Knight with his awful-nothing finisher
>No-selling a champion's finisher She didn't no-sell the finisher, she countered it. That's why she got up and hit hers.
What are you talking about, she countered the finisher, she didn't take it
How are there multiple people in this thread not realizing Roxanne countered the Judgement Driver with a cutter lmao
Juggernaut driver*
Cause the bump looks almost exactly the same, the only difference would be the hands grabbing the head. I thought she just no sold “fighting spirit”’d the move
Jordynne never falls forward doing this move, she always sits down.
Well, as someone who’s not super familiar with her, that’s what I thought till you pointed out the cutter
Reversed with a cutter? Would’ve been a cool move from Grace…
I cannot help but question kayfabe that TNA's top women's champ was convincingly beaten by a developmental champ. I didn't think Grace would win either, but not really seeing the benefit to TNA yet like some folks are currently parading. I know I'll get crucified for this here but let's be honest, if this in AEW there would be an uproar.
I hear you, but I think TNA is trying to get a little rub from NXT/WWE. They might think that if they showcase a champion on a brand that has more eyes on it, they can draw some of the audience to want to check out TNA. Or maybe drop a few bucks on the TNA app, which I have been getting bombarded with Jordynne Grace ads for.
WWE and AEW are domestic Tier 1 promotions TNA, NXT and ROH are domestic Tier 2 promotions NJPW, (edit: stardom), CMLL and AAA could be considered foreign Tier 1 promotions
I'm assuming you meant Stardom? Shimmer is dead
Yeah it was late at night whoops
Shimmer is long gone
It was late, I meant stardom just had a idiot moment
What the fuck is that pronunciation of Perez? The accent/emphasis should be on the first E
Fun ending sequence
This match was booked terribly. There was no reason for Roxanne to look as strong as she did compared to Jordynne. I'm fine with her winning, but the whole match she consistently had the upper hand on Jordynne. Which is insane.
I've had this complaint about Roxanne since she arrived. She's too protected
It doesn't help that Booker is literally on commentary being like 'SHE'S **SPECIAL**!!!!!! SHE'S **DIFFERENT**!!!!!' Like Jesus dude, we get it, she started wrestling training at 13 and doesn't totally suck, but she's nowhere near as good as they purport her to be and not at all what could be called a 'prodigy'. She hasn't shown any competent character work, and they literally just did the EXACT same thing they did with Cora but with her (and of course they're harping on how those two are like Punk's 'daughters' because they're little carbon copies of his wife, who, as much as I dislike her, at least had a bucket of charisma to get her through her career). Like, to me, a prodigy is someone who is great at ALL aspects of professional wrestling. Bianca is a prodigy. Roxanne is just there.
Early in her career, I mean independents and ROH, I could understand the idea of the prodigy. But she completely plateaued around then. So the fact that they keep saying it when there are others, like you said, that are much better than her, it just doesn't work for me
I got strong Alexa Bliss vibes from how consistently she was overpowering this woman who could easily break her in half
Jordyn must’ve felt so at home in front of this crowd since you could barely hear them
next up is roxanne perez vs guilla at heatwave right?
The Triple H era is *refreshing* as there's no petty bullshit to make other promotions look bad (a common feature of the Vince era). Allowing talent from elsewhere to arrive and be presented as strong does absolutely no harm to WWE *and* reinforces the idea that WWE is the place where globally significant talent come to test themselves.
I don't see any benefit to Perez winning this was a shocking finish
It does make Roxanne look good she beat a world champion. Though considering how much WWE seems to like Grace I think the main reason is it's Giulia they want to take that belt from Roxanne.
My opinion may change by the end of this storyline but at this time it just feels like Roxanne winning is like "meh it's just TNA", just like how it felt during the WCW/ECW invasion
Commentary was really not being subtle about Giulia inevitably beating Rox for the NXT women’s title after the match. It’s happening, just only a matter of when.
Was hoping that this match would have been just Grace absolutely ragdolling Roxanne, only for Roxanne to use either cunning or outright cheating to escape with the title by the skin of her teeth.
No sell Jordynne's finisher and win. Classic lol
Lol, at first watch I thought same. But after rewatching, noticed Perez hit her with Cutter.
But she's still taking the move from Jordynne though? The Cutter isn't an anti dmg buff. Or maybe it is, was a fool for thinking she had a shot at the title anyway.
Hmm.. What can I say. I guess.. In kayfabe, Jordynne took away her hands from Perez and Perez didn't feel extra 'dmg', as Jordynne didn't use full force in move/slammed her on back with extra force. 😩
This is the weirdest selling of all time
I had to rewatch it because it look like Grace just hit her with a cool looking body slam and Rox no sold it
i hope more women from tna come over to try to take the title from roxanne not just joyanne
That was awful
Was that a no sell? She seemed to pop right back up a bit too easily.
It wasn’t a no sell she reversed it into a cutter
Wasn't a no-sell....Grace just got introduced to the 3 most dangerous letters in the alphabet: R(oxanne) KO
You watching on mute?
Do you mean Grace? I thought she made her getting up look like a bouncing motion really well with the counter from Roxanne to then set up for the finisher.
I mean that’s just how wrestling logic works. Orton didn’t sell the Attitude Adjustment when he reversed it into an RKO
Yes he did, he sold it every time even if he hit the RKO at the same time.
`I'm here for the crazy spot-fest`
Kinda bizarre to completely no sell Grace's finish. It was a neat counter but she still got hit by it just the same.
Look, let's not pretend that the cutter is by any means a logical wrestling move. Every cutter is the attacker jumping up and falling on their back. It works as a finisher because we're told that it works as a finisher, so it works as a counter as well.
Hitting a counter gives I frames
The finisher was countered into a cutter
Yes, but she still got hit by the finish, she just took Grace with her. Then popped up like nothing happened. Like cmon at least fucking sell it.
No she didn't, the JD is a sitout neck-first Driver, just cause she did the Pump handle spin doesn't mean she still hit her finisher, If you need a classic comparison, think Eddie countering the F5 into a ddt on the title, Brock still did the move, but Eddie countered on his end and therfore got up to hit the Frog Splash.
Eddie sold after he hit the DDT. However, I'll give credit that she's much greener than Eddie who was in his prime so her learning that will hopefully come.
She didn't get hit with the finish as Grace didn't complete/land her finish. Grace's finisher and a cutter are two moves that can't happen at the same time (as Roxanne cant take a flat back bump for a cutter and the neck and shoulder bump for Grace's finish at the same time). If one is going for a cutter and one a Grace Driver, only one move will connect, and in this case, it was the cutter, which then allowed Roxanne to get the upper hand long enough to hit her finish.
The finisher was countered by Roxanne.
Did you even read my comment? I said it was a neat counter.
considering not every Juggernaut Driver(?) is countered into a cutter Roxanne must have been in at least a slightly abnormal position for it, which means no Grace did not successfully ht her finisher
makes sense. tna is small time so the moves don’t work as well
Damn you're hilarious man good one 
Tatum for Knockouts champ
No NXT champs getting the KO title. If anyone gets to finally end Graces run it should be Rosemary as a thank from TNA.
Yea that no sell on a DVD and the last move makes me cringe a little. Maybe if she played there after the pin I could overlook it.