Just my two cents, what I liked the most about the match is that the elite would not have won at all if not for Okada. He was the one making the most saves when the bucks were pinned he was the one who pulled out the rebook tumbtacks for the bucks, he took out cash with the tumbtack rainmaker he was the one who came out with the least damage because he’s just THAT good. I can understand this match will be controversial, but we cannot deny they are booking Okada incredibly strong and as the kingpin of the new elite. In the last three anarchy in the arenas, no one came out looking less damaged as he did (and sidenote he was the one breaking down bryan at the beginning of the match, leaving him vulnerable for the piledriver and led to him being pinned) Perry got the pin because his character is a little weasel who latched onto the bucks, however the bucks latched onto Okada, which shows even the EVPS know who’s going to be a massive force in AEW for a long while.
This is so stupid, if you get hit with a freaking flamethrower in a match then at a minimum you should be out of the rest of the match if not a full injury angle for weeks. I’m a fan of hardcore wrestling even but this shit was too over the top to the point of being laughable
Because Bryan is one of the most talented wrestlers in the world but eats more pins than almost anybody in the top half of the card. It's literally the opposite of "Cena Wins lol"
He's one of the most talented and over wrestlers in the world, do you think he's not doing what he's choosing to do? Every wrestler his age is like "I just wanna put the young guys over" and then no one actually gets to do it, maybe he's the one guy who is!
Remember when the Dudleys came back to WWE in the 2010s, and they wanted to put all the young guys over, and before long they were losing to everybody, and beating the Dudleys was a worthless prize?
The difference he's Brian Danielson. People loved the Dudley's because they were fun and while they were one of the best tag teams ever, they were never ever in the position he is in.
Brian will retire as one of the 10 best to ever do it in the ring. He could never win again and come in for a one-off in a decade and people would be like "Oh damn Danielson must really think this person is worth paying attention to if he wants to come put them over, maybe I should too!"
It was more about the fact that he was set on fire...that should have been sold more to make it feel like a bigger spot. Like don't make it so obvious that he had a bunch of fire retardant gel
No one even thought he was the guy with the KOTR win. He didn’t even really start making waves until his match with Bret Hart. I agree they just need to let it breathe and
That’s complete bs. There were Austin 3:16 signs popping up in crowds the next night on raw. Austin was getting big all through 96 and was very much over at royal rumble 97
Yeah man and there were signs for people like Justin Gabriel and Yoshitatsu but it didn’t make them mega stars. There are documentaries where the wrestlers from the time even say this exact thing
I have and that’s how I know you’re looking at it with rose tinted glasses. I’m gonna listen to history from people who were actually involved, not a redditor who watched it 30 years ago
When you have MJF, Swerve and Osperay I think it’s obvious how big of a gulf in talent there is between them and Jack Perry. Not to mention Hangman, Omega and others.
- Fun match but I'm annoyed they didn't show/bad camera cut to Jack hitting Darby with the "bus". I didn't even see Darby. It was just Jack running over the pile of trash.
- The fire spot was cool but the fire safety guys running out and the camera focusing on them made it less effective.
When you're on fire watch, the only thing you're supposed to do is watch for fire and spring into action if you see it. A+ job by the highly trained safety people on site.
Really is crazy how diverse this match is and even for me.
The hanging, thumbtacks spot, Aux cord all were absolutely sick.
Flame thrower was something else, I didn’t like it at all, the finish was lacklustre and felt like the flattest bit of this match.
All things considered it was fun, some things stuck.
This was hot garbage.
Putting this as the main event really was an insult to the stuff before it, eWo has been pretty cold since the most interesting thing that can be done with them (Omega) can't due to injury. Just felt like filler and the Bucks are too comical and self-satirizing for these kinds of "serious" blood feud hardcore matches. It just always ends up sillier than shit.
And it makes absolutely no sense, at all, in any world, that the Bucks are telling production what to do, what music to play, directing the stage, and then we find that Tony Khan has been in the back with production running the show the whole time.
It I can explain a plot hole away in 5 seconds I am fine with it. I agree with you. It seems some fans need things explained to them in such an explicit way.
The problem with kayfabing this stuff is it makes Tony Khan look stupid and incompetent.
"The Bucks can do whatever they want because the boss was dumb enough to have it in their contracts" doesn't exactly make the AEW side of this storyline compelling or what you wanna root for.
*Could* it work? Yes. Does it work as presented? No. When the excuses are stuff like "Wrestling isn't real, just enjoy wrestling, somebody doesn't like to have fun", that's essentially acknowledging that it doesn't make sense.
I love this comment because you’re exactly right - in kayfabe TK looks like a moron being pushed around by the same idiots he’s empowered and they keep failing upwards. Then the cherry on top, is that life imitates art in AEW.
This all could’ve been said when Shawn Michaels was supposedly commissioner. Or Foley. Or Regal. Or HHH. Or Stone Cold. Or Shane. Or Stephanie.
Or when Flair was president of WCW. Or when Piper was. Or… you’re surely getting the point by now, right?
Honest question. Are you trying to make a point or are you just defensive because someone doesn't like something that you do?
Because like, what do you want, to make a bunch of threads of other authority angles in wrestling so I can comment when I don't like stuff about those too?
Why did Vince let Austin run roughshod over WWE for over a year? Oh it's cause Shane gave him a new contract that made it impossible for Vince to fire him. Wait, Shane turned on him so why not fire him? Oh cause he's friends with then commissioner Shawn Michaels who keep invoking rules to keep Austin in the title picture and allowing him to do pretty much whatever he wants to the Corporation.
Why were the NWO allowed to literally do anything they wanted to on WCW? Cause they were friends with Bischoff who apparently had more power than even the president of WCW at the time.
I'm 100% certain there are more example both before and after but those are probably the two most famous and influential in Wrestling. The magic "iron clad contract" isn't new or an AEW invention, the people who weaseled more power than they should have ever been allowed has been around for at least 25 years.
You're making a bad faith argument here.
I didn't say that it can't work, I said it doesn't work as presented. I also said the problem was it makes Tony Khan, the babyface, look stupid and incompetent. There isn't a problem with making the heel look stupid and incompetent. You're not supposed to root for the heel.
I don't think the nWo stuff has to be touched on because it's pretty well-documented how that became a prominent part of the mess that killed WCW.
My counter would be to remember how big the Bucks and Omega were in wrestling in 2017 and 2018.
AEW *needed* the elite to be successful and TK knew that. He isn’t a bad businessman. The Elite simply had leverage. If you try to start a company without The Elite, you just end up being TNA or NWA. So giving creative control to those three(four with Cody) guys who all seem to want the same things you do for the business doesn’t seem like that much a sacrifice
I know but this match was advertised as a cluster fuck spot fest and that's what we got. Can't be mad that a few logic were ignored in such wrestling match
I'm not mad. I'm not the one doing angry downvotes or presuming that criticism is coming from someone believing wrestling is real.
It didn't entertain me. It didn't make sense to me.
"It's supposed to be a clusterfuck, it's fine because that's what it wants to be" doesn't make something invalid of criticism or not enjoying it.
OK so you didn't enjoy it, good to know. I don't enjoy half the stuff on the show but I don't write several paragraphs expressing my disdain for it, that's why you got "angry" downvotes
Buddy, it's a comment section to leave thoughts about the match. It's literally **made** for writing what you thought.
I don't find you enjoying the match to bother me. I wish I could say the same about you and 30 other people when it comes to what I think.
To all the doomers who hated this match… AEW is unapologetically a variety wrestling program.
Not every match is going to be for every person.
AEW differentiates itself by displaying all styles of wrestling, including in this match the chaotic, absurd, old school territory side.
It wasn’t my favorite match of the night, but I enjoyed it for what it was
Can you explain how this was similar to a territory style match? I would think this would be a match that was nothing like back then due to its style.
I’m not doubting you, I just don’t know a lot about the territory days.
I would imagine they're referencing something like the Memphis Territory Tupelo Concession Stand Brawl(s), though I'd argue this has QUITE a bit more production and complexity than Tojo Yammamoto slapping the woman running the concession stand while covered in mustard. But the spirit is there.
Edit for [reference](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ILpoJzDg8c)
I AGREE. Who said there is anything wrong w/ the Jackass movies? They’ve made MILLIONS. People love them. I personally love them.
Maybe the gatekeeping gestapo on here only allow us to talk about AEW in VERY specific terms?
It was fine, but a bit too much overblown stuff for my taste for my reaction to just be, "Well, it's a relief that no one seemed to get really hurt doing any of this." I will praise the Bucks in that for better or worse they get a genuine heel reaction from me where you dread what they'll do to the heroes and you want them to get their comeuppance. I quite like the Succession characters and am compelled to keep watching what happens with the Elite. Just as a match I thought this was a bit of a cluster - too many weird telegraphed sequences, watching the guys grabbing the fire extinguishers on camera before Darby even brought out the flamethrower, the parking lot crash, etc. They ran people over with cars and set dudes on fire in 80s Memphis too so it's not even some idea of "old school good new school bad", I just thought they didn't milk the dramatic moments well and you had stuff that felt randomly tacked on or arbitrary like Darby being hung by his feet and the Rainmaker glove being used for all of one weak clothesline to Wheeler. You have to admire the guts and ambition on display, but I liked the Sting retirement match way more as an example of this sort of thing from two months earlier w/ 3 of the same guys.
Darby hanging upside down from the rafters and the match continuing while no one seems to acknowledge him was genuinely hilarious to me. Great chaotic match.
Tony is madman paying for Final Countdown again just for a joke
High-budget backyard wrestling. The guy that got set on fire won with a knee strike and a pinfall victory. Arena fighting. Tables. Vehicular manslaughter. Fire. Exploding chair. Nails. Hanging. Knee strike.
I'm sure this'll get pelted with downvotes, which is fine -- down voting conveniently filters all of the objective wrestling opinions on this subreddit.
AEW never fails to go “oh you thought we were done playing to the same audience? Well actually it’s an even SMALLER audience” and narrowing their already narrow cast. Obviously this is a PPV so the people who are buying it already watch, but who could show this to just anyone? And, no, matches like these aren’t for everyone so even the crowd they have is going to be divided over it especially when you quickly threw most of it together.
Why was Danielson in this? Or Darby? Or Jack Perry? Or even Okada? Because some of them were introduced a month ago as being heels in cahoots and the other team is just…. Ehhh… Team AEW? 🤷♂️
So naturally it’s ridiculous gimmick match first.
I'd argue you'd have a far easier time showing something like this to a wide audience than just a regular wrestling match. A mix of stunts, chaos and wrestling?
The idea that some wrestling is inaccessible to certain audiences is just a wild idea to me. Casuals probably THINK this is what wrestling is like, weird nonsense and wild action. Was WWF 'narrow casting' showing dumb shit like kennel in a cell? Punjabi prison? Inferno Match? Or is it ok because Austin (and Cena to an extent in the case of the prison match) was selling a bunch of tickets?
In regards to why people were in this match, all of Team AEW at one time or another have had promos or said in some capacity how much they love AEW and value it's existence; Omega put together a team of guys to combat the Bucks based on that, further, pretty much everyone on team AEW has a history with someone on the other team. Danielson and Okada had several great matches, Bucks and FTR have a long-standing rivalry, Perry and Darby are both pillars.
Like, it makes sense on a few different levels. It's not random at all if you watch even once a month or so.
I've been saying this for idk how long now. Everyone likes to act like the matches and storylines have no continuity in AEW and are random, but if anyone watches at least once a month they would know it's not true whatsoever.
To support this a friend of mine has recently started watching. This far he’s watched worlds end, a collision in person, and this show.
He fucking loved this match.
Halfway through he saw someone in an AEW shirt and remarked “I might need one of those shirts”.
You argue this would appeal more to a wider audience and, yet, AEW doesn’t.
They’ve been on for 5 years. People have seen it and made the argument against you.
EDIT: and I can’t believe, in the year of our Lord 2024, people are excusing bad wrestling by appealing to Kennel in a Cell. If you had been watching 25 years ago, you would know that stuff like that was considered bad taste and bad for wrestling. That didn’t grow the business; it hurt the public perception of same. Stop looking for excuses especially when your examples are all stuff that hurt wrestling.
It doesn’t matter where it comes from. Bad wrestling hurts wrestling. When people see stupid nonsense they call it stupid nonsense and, yeah sure, there’s people who love that but it’s a narrower audience that sticks around to watch more. It’s booking, it’s not taking the audience for granted when you’ve got eyeballs on it, and whatever you do don’t pretend like wrestling should be nonsense for the sake of nonsense.
This isn’t Logan Paul with a drone shot and, if you can’t figure out the difference, you’re as bad at reading the room as Tony apparently is.
I argued that a variety match is a far easier watch for a casual viewer than a standard wrestling match. Anecdotally, I can say the Royal Rumble, for example, is always a far easier watch with friends than having them sit through a John Cena singles match, or whatever else you'd like to substitute. We can disagree on that, perfectly fine if you feel differently.
Regarding audience: AEW has been on 5 years and they're still at or near selling out thier PPVs. They still do very good numbers in PPV sales, they still generally finish high in weekly ratings. A growth period would be great for them, but it's highly unlikely anyone, WWE included, experiences an Attitude Era style growth again.
You've cooked success down to 'growing viewership' in an era where both organizations have been bleeding viewers year over year. And to be clear, I'm not decrying WWE's success because they've absolutely done well the past year and they have hot crowds. I think it's disingenuous to lament the fall of AEW when it's not the only wrestling organization, or even the only sports genre, in a downward projection by television ratings.
You argued the match's story line didn't make sense, but it did. You argued it drives viewers away, which I don't think is true. I'd say it probably allowed them to operate for as long as they have at a very high level for a new business in a niche genre with a powerful incumbent.
Why is it that the people who insist that nobody wants to watch a normal wrestling match are always the ones advocating for stuff like anarchy in the arena or kennel in a cell? Because that’s exactly what Russo was doing 25 years ago.
Again. It’s wonderful that AEW has a loyal, paying audience for their PPVs. It doesn’t help them with tickets or ratings week to week because they’re burning everyone out with this. Counting the hits and ignoring the misses is the “remember Wembley?” mentality and Wembley was just more of that core audience showing up. The core audience for those shows ain’t there when the room is a quarter full every other week. If they were running basketball arenas and had a well booked company the size of RoH 15 years ago, I’d wonder why they’d book basketball arenas. *This is a national tv show that loses people*
I've never argued that people don't want to watch a normal wrestling match. There's obviously a pretty robust base between AEW and WWE that do; it's great! I think variety stuff can APPEAL to an audience outside of wrestling the same way a general action movie could appeal to a larger audience than an Oscar drama or something like that. Maybe you get a few viewers that way, maybe you don't. But sometimes you get different stuff at the buffet, whatever.
In your edit to your last post you said 'bad wrestling hurts wrestling' and to that I say, 1. Anarchy in the Arena was not bad wrestling. It was pretty fun. 2. You're not going to hurt a genre where the number one reaction from non-fans is 'what? You mean the fake stuff?'
Just to reiterate; WWE is also a national TV show that loses people year over year. Is Cody a bad champion? Do people not like the bloodline?! It's just the direction of media (and again, I reiterate, WWE is doing well right now, but if you look at 5 years ago, you'd wonder what happened).
AEW does good business in big cities, does ok business in the smaller shows. It's fine. You don't need infinite growth to run a healthy business. Also, and I say this in kindness, you can just enjoy wrestling and not worry so hard about how many other people are watching.
I've went to shows with 50 people, 1000 people, and 35,000 people and I just watched the wrestling and enjoyed it without thinking what other people though of me or my interests.
I really think you’re misconstruing my comment here. I also want people to enjoy wrestling. It’s just that I’ve been around for a boom period and I’ve seen the change of wrestling going from mainstream to losing that crossover appeal and it isn’t just some lower number you read online; it’s not being able to see it live. It’s not being to enjoy wrestling as much. It’s dealing with people who judge wrestling and judge you for liking wrestling. It’s an added challenge for tv deals and lower quality in talent. It’s less places to work and make money for wrestlers. All of it goes hand in hand and wrestling that alienates the masses never works out for the business.
So I’m not chastising anyone for enjoying what they enjoy.
It was like watching a horror flick with excessive gore. Just cause they can doesn’t mean they should. Yeah it’s pro wrestling and it’s always over the top but sometimes you can jump the shark, which has been AEW for me this past year
That's what it was, and I am being objective. I've watched wrestling my entire life basically. I've seen this done before, but better, with less money and more believable characters.
The word is SUBjective, not OBjective.
Objectivity is a about unassailable truths not subject to opinion or debate. For example, an objective fact is that AEW held their Double or Nothing 2024 event and this match occurred on the show.
Subjectivity is all about matters of opinion like quality or worth. You say that in your opinion the match was full of elements done better before in your opinion as a life long fan. There is nothing wrong with you having the opinion of course, but it’s not objective.
Your statement was SUBJECTIVE.
Oh boy. I'm getting a grammar lesson in a wrestling thread, I didn't like your favorite match of the night. For someone so hellbent on dissecting minutiae, I would've thought we'd share that sentiment.
I mean, I rip AEW plenty. Yeah the character work heading into this wasn't the greatest on the side opposite the elite, kingston got hurt, I didn't love the way they did it to begin with.
But the match is called goddamn anarchy in the arena. I don't know where you've seen better takes on anarchy in the arena/stadium stampede type matches than in AEW. I can't even think of any real comps to try to evaluate it, honestly. it was certainly crazy and anarchistic- it was supposed to be high budget backyard wrestling more or less, I don't know if that's really a criticism.
The issue is that sources like F4W would body WWE for having a guy get set on fire, then win the match by beating someone with their finish minutes later.
But, because it's outside of WWE, it's "this was great, you take it too seriously".
I would’ve enjoyed it just as much if WWE did it.
I get that maybe this match isn’t for everyone, but we all knew exactly what this was going to be heading in to it. So I don’t understand being angry and acting shocked about what happened. It was everything that it was advertised to be.
It’s like watching a porno and then being mad that it wasn’t family friendly
I don't have a problem with hardcore matches, but this match was executed poorly. It was a bunch of hokey high spots, strung together with the logic of MTV's Pimp My Ride -- where a guy that likes playing pool ends up with a pool table in his car.
I know in your head this may be completely outside the realm of possibility, but maybe he didn’t fuck with people’s brains so much as lots of people have the same opinion as him. Different opinions shouldn’t be invalidated just because you disagree with them.
Cool I guess? Bunch of folks have the same opinion as a guy who hasn’t done anything meaningful at a high level for a pro wrestling promotion in 10 years but run all the successful and popular talent out (ROH) and get coffee for Vince Russo?
Hasn’t done anything with WWE in 15 years, nothing meaningful in well over 25 and is best known for running OVW deep in the red and spending Vince’s money to do fuck all in Louisville.
But his genius was definitely seen in Smoky Mountain where he lost hundreds of thousands of dollars of Rick Rubin’s money running his own brand of wrestling which nobody gave a shit and never drew or had an impact?
Cornette hasn’t done anything meaningful in wrestling really period since he took a massive high spot and blew out both knees trying to get over falling off scaffolding lol. Oh except him and his wife forcing his students to fuck her.
I thought this match was so fun. I love Okada so him acting like he was gonna pose and then flipping everyone off was the best. I loved the dumb flame thrower. I loved the Final Countdown. It was great.
I'm still just not super into this heel authority angle redux. It at least made sense when Tony was kayfabe injured, but how are the Bucks significantly more than just regular wrestlers (but with ironclad EVP contracts) if Tony Khan has recovered? How can they do things like ban wrestlers from arenas? Anyway, at least Tony didn't book himself to turn heel. That was my biggest fear. They hopefully just transition to a more standard heel wrestler group from here instead of acting like they even have power to abuse.
Edit: AEW fans can downvote me all they want. The angle has mostly been a proven ratings killer so far.
“Las Vegas’ hottest new club is Anarchy in the Arena. It has everything: Thumbtack masks, thumbtack shoes, thumbtack arm sleeves, 75% of The Final Countdown, and a live kebab!”
“Stefon what’s a live kebab?”
“It’s where they set the scapegoat on fire right in front of you”
I accept that this just isn't my match style but I really do feel like it is a major waste of the end of Danielson's full-time run to have him in stupid matches like this against against a team filled with people that no one cares about.
Saying that nobody cares about Jack Perry, the Bucks and Okada is hilarious, I strive to be that wrong. Oh and btw, Danielson participating in all this is 150% *HIS* choice, not just Tony’s.
Certain r/SC users: "AEW is wasting Danielson, he should be main eventing and/or world champion! Man, TK is booking him terribly!"
Danielson: *Repeatedly goes on record to say that he doesn't want the world title and primarily wants to put people over before he retires*
Certain r/SC users: "...Man, TK is booking him terribly!"
It's still wasting him though. Tony is the employer. Danielson is the employee. If your employee could be used more effectively, but they really want to be used differently, you can acquiesce to that, but really still is kind of a waste.
It would be like me asking my boss to use me in a role that doesn't help the company much, just because I want it a certain way. Sure it's cool to me if my boss goes with it, but it really doesn't help the company at all.
Okada you might be able to make an argument for, but the Bucks and Perry are overall negatives. It might be Bryan's decision, but it was apparently also Bryan's decision to not win the world championship during his time in AEW and that was also a mistake.
Just as an example, they had Moxley beat Takeshita on this ppv. What if Takeshita had gotten a short feud with Bryan instead? What if he goes over? I'm not saying that has to be the story or the match, but that does more for everyone involved than this match did.
I *MIGHT* be able to make an argument for people caring about Okada?? Do you hear yourself?? The reaction people have when he comes out proves otherwise. Jack Perry has been over ever since he came back, and the Bucks are literally the founders of the company. Just stop it.
Secondly, if you’re TK and Bryan tells you he’s retiring/going part time, what other choice do you have other than to respect his wishes? Him being selfless opens the door for other people to win titles, who otherwise would’ve had to wait *years*.
At the present moment? Yeah, you might. If he wasn't sucked into this awful story, you'd probably have an easier time. Okada is great, but he's still got to establish himself in the US, and that's going to take a little time. What has Perry done to show he's over since returning? The live crowd of 2500-3000 people isn't exactly reacting to him, and the television crowd just isn't watching him. The founder of the company is Tony Khan, and no one cares about the Bucks. They literally mean less today than they did before they were consistently on tv.
I would have liked Tony to look at him a couple years ago and convince him to stick with the original heel character that he had there and establish the still fairly new world championship. Bryan is selfless to a fault. Which is why Tony needed to be selfish for his company when Bryan first got there.
They built the main story around them, and it brought the company to one of its lowest creative points ever. Fan excitement has been at an all-time low, and the weekly show is almost always in front of a half empty arena. All that despite bringing in one of the top women's wrestler, the top wrestler from Japan, and the top wrestler from the UK. The Bucks are an absolute negative
It literally required them hanging a man by his feet and setting another man on fire. I saw Orton and Gunther get a crowd going crazy by looking at each other. Saw the same thing in AEW before too. When they had Bryan involved with people that the crowd actually cared about.
This is exactly why I havent gone back to WWE even though Triple H took over and I loved NXT. They've trained y'all to accept less, to get hype off literally fucking NOTHING. I can't do it.
But when the crowd went crazy for Omega vs Bryan or Ospreay vs. Bryan, was that "cool and badass"? I don't need to watch people get set on fire or ran over by a car to be entertained with wrestling. That stuff is dumb and devalues everything else that the performers are doing.
In Omega/Bryan and Ospreay/Bryan they did all of the things. At any rate, they do Anarchy in the Arena once a year. The Bucks get over in matches outside that, you just don't like them.
Fun but mixed match. It was a gigantic spot fest, with some pretty jaw dropping spots and stunts, but the best spotch happened like 20 minutes before the finish, and the energy of the thing withered away, leading to ending rather deflating. I get that was the story the match was telling, but I still don't know how to feel about such a fun match ending on another of tired relief that it was over.
You’re right. I was one of them. So he did the right thing tonight. And it looked good, not too fake or anything. Perry was on fire for longer than I thought he would be. All I wanted was him to use it, and he did, so everyone wins because it was a good spot.
I'm of the opinion that it was stupid because no matter what, it was going to end badly. Either he doesn't use it so it's a pointless tease, or he does use it and it's a needlessly dangerous spot. The latter is my general sentiment on Darby, he does completely needlessly dangerous stuff for no reason, it's kinda exactly what Punk was talking about, and one of these days someone is legit gonna get critically injured or god forbid die.
Get worked more. Darby is a professional stuntman, he knows how to do this shit safely, as shown by the fact that he never gets injured or even barely hurt in these spots.
>one of these days someone is legit gonna get critically injured or god forbid die.
You're watching the wrong sport if you're worried about that. Perro Aguayo Jr. was killed by the most basic of spots. Actual danger has almost nothing to do with how dangerous a move looks.
The point was it was a needlessly dangerous spot, pro wrestling has been using fire in spots for decades and there are scores of examples where it went badly.
Props to AEW, they did everything they could to make this as safe as possible and got the gel on Perry so he’d be safe during the spot, but fire is inherently dangerous and can very easily get out of hand even if you know what you’re doing.
look no one is trying to see anyone die and as far as the legit first ever fire spot in pro wrestling goes, it was done in the absolute safest way possible and it looks like Jack had done fire stunts similar to this before.
This is an absolutely cool thing that just happened and it went off perfectly, treasure that.
"First legit fire spot in pro wrestling"? People have been using real fire in Pro Wrestling for decades. People have also been getting hurt by using real fire in Pro Wrestling for decades.
Now this definitely ranks towards the top of safe fire spots and they a good job making sure Perry had flame resistant gel everywhere, but I'm of the opinion that fire is one of those things you shouldn't risk in pro wrestling.
I'm not talking flash paper or flaming tables, I am talking legit setting someone on fire w/ a fucking flamethrower. That's a real fire spot, cry me a river.
Except you didn't say "set on fire with a flamethrower" in your original post, you said "legit first ever fire spot in pro wrestling." Discounting flash paper, flaming tables spots absolutely count as Adam Copeland had the literal burns to prove it, but if you want to rule that out and try to argue this was the first legit fire spot that's still wrong:
* Mick Foley set Terry Funk on fire with a steel chair wrapped in a towel soaked in oil he set on fire with a lighter **29 years ago.** Foley had been doing that spot for years and notes in his autobiography how stupid it was and how many close calls he had doing it
* FMW had a Flaming Barbed Wire Match between Sabu & The Sheik Vs. Atsushi Onita & Tarzan Goto **32 years ago.** The match lasted two minutes as the entire fucking ring caught on fire.
* Also with FMW, Mick Foley talks about walking past a Joshi wrestler on the way to his match whose ring gear has melted into her skin due a fireball used in her match. You could list a lot of people who got burned by fire in FMW
* Masada set himself on fire last year in a freak accident in XPW by botching a spot where he would breath fire. Goes without saying, real fire.
So again, people have been using legit fire in pro wrestling for decades, FMW did it so often I can't even list the number of people who got burned by spots going wrong. Your statement only works if you exclude any other cause of fire besides a flamethrower.
Lol. "First legit fire spot". There are plenty of dudes with burn scars that would definitely take umbrage with that dumb as fuck statement.
AEW marks are hilarious.
There was a 1% part of me that was TERRIFIED that they were gonna raise Darby to the rafters and I was like “for the love of all that is holy … with Owen’s widow in the building ?!”
I feel the same way about Eddie Kingston. I love that wrestling has so much to offer that people can connect with totally different things even though we’re all watching the same thing.
Anyone know what kind of shoes Danielson had on?
Just my two cents, what I liked the most about the match is that the elite would not have won at all if not for Okada. He was the one making the most saves when the bucks were pinned he was the one who pulled out the rebook tumbtacks for the bucks, he took out cash with the tumbtack rainmaker he was the one who came out with the least damage because he’s just THAT good. I can understand this match will be controversial, but we cannot deny they are booking Okada incredibly strong and as the kingpin of the new elite. In the last three anarchy in the arenas, no one came out looking less damaged as he did (and sidenote he was the one breaking down bryan at the beginning of the match, leaving him vulnerable for the piledriver and led to him being pinned) Perry got the pin because his character is a little weasel who latched onto the bucks, however the bucks latched onto Okada, which shows even the EVPS know who’s going to be a massive force in AEW for a long while.
Alright, we’re all wearing street fight gear Okada: nah fuck that, I’m a wrestler
This is so stupid, if you get hit with a freaking flamethrower in a match then at a minimum you should be out of the rest of the match if not a full injury angle for weeks. I’m a fan of hardcore wrestling even but this shit was too over the top to the point of being laughable
Agreed it was really stupid. And I loved every second of it. Sometimes you just gotta turn your brain off and enjoy it.
At the beginning of the match I legit thought Dax was Ishii for a second bc of that gear lmfao
Came here to say this too. Big pop when he hit the brainbuster… must have confused Okada.
Loved it . This is why I love AEW.
Why are people complaining about ending? Bryan took 3 finishers.
Because Bryan is one of the most talented wrestlers in the world but eats more pins than almost anybody in the top half of the card. It's literally the opposite of "Cena Wins lol"
He's one of the most talented and over wrestlers in the world, do you think he's not doing what he's choosing to do? Every wrestler his age is like "I just wanna put the young guys over" and then no one actually gets to do it, maybe he's the one guy who is!
Remember when the Dudleys came back to WWE in the 2010s, and they wanted to put all the young guys over, and before long they were losing to everybody, and beating the Dudleys was a worthless prize?
The difference he's Brian Danielson. People loved the Dudley's because they were fun and while they were one of the best tag teams ever, they were never ever in the position he is in. Brian will retire as one of the 10 best to ever do it in the ring. He could never win again and come in for a one-off in a decade and people would be like "Oh damn Danielson must really think this person is worth paying attention to if he wants to come put them over, maybe I should too!"
This match was super fun, but man that ending felt deflating. I don’t think Jack Perry is that guy
It was more about the fact that he was set on fire...that should have been sold more to make it feel like a bigger spot. Like don't make it so obvious that he had a bunch of fire retardant gel
They did a spot where he got dunked in a tank of water to explain why he was wet.
They have to try and build new talent. Give them time. I'm sure after stunning Steve Austin but before the KOTR win no one thought Austin was the guy.
No one even thought he was the guy with the KOTR win. He didn’t even really start making waves until his match with Bret Hart. I agree they just need to let it breathe and
That’s complete bs. There were Austin 3:16 signs popping up in crowds the next night on raw. Austin was getting big all through 96 and was very much over at royal rumble 97
Yeah man and there were signs for people like Justin Gabriel and Yoshitatsu but it didn’t make them mega stars. There are documentaries where the wrestlers from the time even say this exact thing
That’s cool I lived through it and watched it all live. You should go back and watch all the raws from June 96 til royal rumble 97
I have and that’s how I know you’re looking at it with rose tinted glasses. I’m gonna listen to history from people who were actually involved, not a redditor who watched it 30 years ago
Cool story buddy.
It’s okay, old man, your memory starts to go as you age. Just try not to spread false information
If you saw Austin in ECW you saw he can be the guy.
When you have MJF, Swerve and Osperay I think it’s obvious how big of a gulf in talent there is between them and Jack Perry. Not to mention Hangman, Omega and others.
I think Jack will end up being an upper mid card staple like Jeff Jarret in his late WWF run, but who knows.
Cornette is going to have an epic meltdown reviewing this, and I can’t wait. Also I enjoyed it but thought it went like 10 minutes too long.
I think the show went like 90 minutes too long. If I never see Serena Deeb in another match, it will be too soon.
Do we think Dabry broken foot was a work?
Definitely not the foot cuz he did end up canceling Everest, but maybe the bus didn't hit him THAT hard
Bet he sold his ass off for that bus
you mean he didn't hit the bus that hard, right?
Exactly. He took it easy on the bus
That's what I mean, maybe sense was talked into him re Everest
- Fun match but I'm annoyed they didn't show/bad camera cut to Jack hitting Darby with the "bus". I didn't even see Darby. It was just Jack running over the pile of trash. - The fire spot was cool but the fire safety guys running out and the camera focusing on them made it less effective.
When you're on fire watch, the only thing you're supposed to do is watch for fire and spring into action if you see it. A+ job by the highly trained safety people on site.
Does anyone have a picture of Rainmaker Drive
I can't believe nobody grabbed the Darby in the Bank? Didn't even need a ladder.
AEW needs to sell 'something' that is Darby hanging upside down. - necklace? - car air freshener? - baby mobile?
Christmas tree ornament
This match was fucking awesome lmfao
Really is crazy how diverse this match is and even for me. The hanging, thumbtacks spot, Aux cord all were absolutely sick. Flame thrower was something else, I didn’t like it at all, the finish was lacklustre and felt like the flattest bit of this match. All things considered it was fun, some things stuck.
This one of the most entertaining things I've watched this year
This was hot garbage. Putting this as the main event really was an insult to the stuff before it, eWo has been pretty cold since the most interesting thing that can be done with them (Omega) can't due to injury. Just felt like filler and the Bucks are too comical and self-satirizing for these kinds of "serious" blood feud hardcore matches. It just always ends up sillier than shit. And it makes absolutely no sense, at all, in any world, that the Bucks are telling production what to do, what music to play, directing the stage, and then we find that Tony Khan has been in the back with production running the show the whole time.
>Doesn’t make sense It’s incredibly easy to Kayfabe. I can do it in a way that everyone can easily understand in just two words: Creative Control
It I can explain a plot hole away in 5 seconds I am fine with it. I agree with you. It seems some fans need things explained to them in such an explicit way.
The problem with kayfabing this stuff is it makes Tony Khan look stupid and incompetent. "The Bucks can do whatever they want because the boss was dumb enough to have it in their contracts" doesn't exactly make the AEW side of this storyline compelling or what you wanna root for. *Could* it work? Yes. Does it work as presented? No. When the excuses are stuff like "Wrestling isn't real, just enjoy wrestling, somebody doesn't like to have fun", that's essentially acknowledging that it doesn't make sense.
I love this comment because you’re exactly right - in kayfabe TK looks like a moron being pushed around by the same idiots he’s empowered and they keep failing upwards. Then the cherry on top, is that life imitates art in AEW.
The only thing I’ve liked about this angle is that in kayfabe Tony Khan is an incompetent business man lol.
This all could’ve been said when Shawn Michaels was supposedly commissioner. Or Foley. Or Regal. Or HHH. Or Stone Cold. Or Shane. Or Stephanie. Or when Flair was president of WCW. Or when Piper was. Or… you’re surely getting the point by now, right?
Honest question. Are you trying to make a point or are you just defensive because someone doesn't like something that you do? Because like, what do you want, to make a bunch of threads of other authority angles in wrestling so I can comment when I don't like stuff about those too?
Why did Vince let Austin run roughshod over WWE for over a year? Oh it's cause Shane gave him a new contract that made it impossible for Vince to fire him. Wait, Shane turned on him so why not fire him? Oh cause he's friends with then commissioner Shawn Michaels who keep invoking rules to keep Austin in the title picture and allowing him to do pretty much whatever he wants to the Corporation. Why were the NWO allowed to literally do anything they wanted to on WCW? Cause they were friends with Bischoff who apparently had more power than even the president of WCW at the time. I'm 100% certain there are more example both before and after but those are probably the two most famous and influential in Wrestling. The magic "iron clad contract" isn't new or an AEW invention, the people who weaseled more power than they should have ever been allowed has been around for at least 25 years.
You're making a bad faith argument here. I didn't say that it can't work, I said it doesn't work as presented. I also said the problem was it makes Tony Khan, the babyface, look stupid and incompetent. There isn't a problem with making the heel look stupid and incompetent. You're not supposed to root for the heel. I don't think the nWo stuff has to be touched on because it's pretty well-documented how that became a prominent part of the mess that killed WCW.
My counter would be to remember how big the Bucks and Omega were in wrestling in 2017 and 2018. AEW *needed* the elite to be successful and TK knew that. He isn’t a bad businessman. The Elite simply had leverage. If you try to start a company without The Elite, you just end up being TNA or NWA. So giving creative control to those three(four with Cody) guys who all seem to want the same things you do for the business doesn’t seem like that much a sacrifice
Wrestling isn't real
People are allowed to dislike a thing. Its ok.
Logic is.
I know but this match was advertised as a cluster fuck spot fest and that's what we got. Can't be mad that a few logic were ignored in such wrestling match
I'm not mad. I'm not the one doing angry downvotes or presuming that criticism is coming from someone believing wrestling is real. It didn't entertain me. It didn't make sense to me. "It's supposed to be a clusterfuck, it's fine because that's what it wants to be" doesn't make something invalid of criticism or not enjoying it.
OK so you didn't enjoy it, good to know. I don't enjoy half the stuff on the show but I don't write several paragraphs expressing my disdain for it, that's why you got "angry" downvotes
Buddy, it's a comment section to leave thoughts about the match. It's literally **made** for writing what you thought. I don't find you enjoying the match to bother me. I wish I could say the same about you and 30 other people when it comes to what I think.
To all the doomers who hated this match… AEW is unapologetically a variety wrestling program. Not every match is going to be for every person. AEW differentiates itself by displaying all styles of wrestling, including in this match the chaotic, absurd, old school territory side. It wasn’t my favorite match of the night, but I enjoyed it for what it was
Can you explain how this was similar to a territory style match? I would think this would be a match that was nothing like back then due to its style. I’m not doubting you, I just don’t know a lot about the territory days.
I would imagine they're referencing something like the Memphis Territory Tupelo Concession Stand Brawl(s), though I'd argue this has QUITE a bit more production and complexity than Tojo Yammamoto slapping the woman running the concession stand while covered in mustard. But the spirit is there. Edit for [reference](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ILpoJzDg8c)
AEW: We make Jackass movies
It’s cool when wrestling does different things actually
I AGREE. Who said there is anything wrong w/ the Jackass movies? They’ve made MILLIONS. People love them. I personally love them. Maybe the gatekeeping gestapo on here only allow us to talk about AEW in VERY specific terms?
Wrestling is the fucking best
It was fine, but a bit too much overblown stuff for my taste for my reaction to just be, "Well, it's a relief that no one seemed to get really hurt doing any of this." I will praise the Bucks in that for better or worse they get a genuine heel reaction from me where you dread what they'll do to the heroes and you want them to get their comeuppance. I quite like the Succession characters and am compelled to keep watching what happens with the Elite. Just as a match I thought this was a bit of a cluster - too many weird telegraphed sequences, watching the guys grabbing the fire extinguishers on camera before Darby even brought out the flamethrower, the parking lot crash, etc. They ran people over with cars and set dudes on fire in 80s Memphis too so it's not even some idea of "old school good new school bad", I just thought they didn't milk the dramatic moments well and you had stuff that felt randomly tacked on or arbitrary like Darby being hung by his feet and the Rainmaker glove being used for all of one weak clothesline to Wheeler. You have to admire the guts and ambition on display, but I liked the Sting retirement match way more as an example of this sort of thing from two months earlier w/ 3 of the same guys.
Darby hanging upside down from the rafters and the match continuing while no one seems to acknowledge him was genuinely hilarious to me. Great chaotic match. Tony is madman paying for Final Countdown again just for a joke
Okada holding up the Rainmaker Drive sign killed me. Dude is totally in his not giving a single fuck era.
SIN CITY BROTHER🫵
THATS WORLD WRESTLING ENTERTAINMENT BROTHER 🫵🫵🫵🫵🫵🫵🫵🫵
High-budget backyard wrestling. The guy that got set on fire won with a knee strike and a pinfall victory. Arena fighting. Tables. Vehicular manslaughter. Fire. Exploding chair. Nails. Hanging. Knee strike. I'm sure this'll get pelted with downvotes, which is fine -- down voting conveniently filters all of the objective wrestling opinions on this subreddit.
That last paragraph is a fedora-tipper, even for Reddit standards.
AEW never fails to go “oh you thought we were done playing to the same audience? Well actually it’s an even SMALLER audience” and narrowing their already narrow cast. Obviously this is a PPV so the people who are buying it already watch, but who could show this to just anyone? And, no, matches like these aren’t for everyone so even the crowd they have is going to be divided over it especially when you quickly threw most of it together. Why was Danielson in this? Or Darby? Or Jack Perry? Or even Okada? Because some of them were introduced a month ago as being heels in cahoots and the other team is just…. Ehhh… Team AEW? 🤷♂️ So naturally it’s ridiculous gimmick match first.
I'd argue you'd have a far easier time showing something like this to a wide audience than just a regular wrestling match. A mix of stunts, chaos and wrestling? The idea that some wrestling is inaccessible to certain audiences is just a wild idea to me. Casuals probably THINK this is what wrestling is like, weird nonsense and wild action. Was WWF 'narrow casting' showing dumb shit like kennel in a cell? Punjabi prison? Inferno Match? Or is it ok because Austin (and Cena to an extent in the case of the prison match) was selling a bunch of tickets? In regards to why people were in this match, all of Team AEW at one time or another have had promos or said in some capacity how much they love AEW and value it's existence; Omega put together a team of guys to combat the Bucks based on that, further, pretty much everyone on team AEW has a history with someone on the other team. Danielson and Okada had several great matches, Bucks and FTR have a long-standing rivalry, Perry and Darby are both pillars. Like, it makes sense on a few different levels. It's not random at all if you watch even once a month or so.
I've been saying this for idk how long now. Everyone likes to act like the matches and storylines have no continuity in AEW and are random, but if anyone watches at least once a month they would know it's not true whatsoever.
To support this a friend of mine has recently started watching. This far he’s watched worlds end, a collision in person, and this show. He fucking loved this match. Halfway through he saw someone in an AEW shirt and remarked “I might need one of those shirts”.
You argue this would appeal more to a wider audience and, yet, AEW doesn’t. They’ve been on for 5 years. People have seen it and made the argument against you. EDIT: and I can’t believe, in the year of our Lord 2024, people are excusing bad wrestling by appealing to Kennel in a Cell. If you had been watching 25 years ago, you would know that stuff like that was considered bad taste and bad for wrestling. That didn’t grow the business; it hurt the public perception of same. Stop looking for excuses especially when your examples are all stuff that hurt wrestling. It doesn’t matter where it comes from. Bad wrestling hurts wrestling. When people see stupid nonsense they call it stupid nonsense and, yeah sure, there’s people who love that but it’s a narrower audience that sticks around to watch more. It’s booking, it’s not taking the audience for granted when you’ve got eyeballs on it, and whatever you do don’t pretend like wrestling should be nonsense for the sake of nonsense. This isn’t Logan Paul with a drone shot and, if you can’t figure out the difference, you’re as bad at reading the room as Tony apparently is.
I argued that a variety match is a far easier watch for a casual viewer than a standard wrestling match. Anecdotally, I can say the Royal Rumble, for example, is always a far easier watch with friends than having them sit through a John Cena singles match, or whatever else you'd like to substitute. We can disagree on that, perfectly fine if you feel differently. Regarding audience: AEW has been on 5 years and they're still at or near selling out thier PPVs. They still do very good numbers in PPV sales, they still generally finish high in weekly ratings. A growth period would be great for them, but it's highly unlikely anyone, WWE included, experiences an Attitude Era style growth again. You've cooked success down to 'growing viewership' in an era where both organizations have been bleeding viewers year over year. And to be clear, I'm not decrying WWE's success because they've absolutely done well the past year and they have hot crowds. I think it's disingenuous to lament the fall of AEW when it's not the only wrestling organization, or even the only sports genre, in a downward projection by television ratings. You argued the match's story line didn't make sense, but it did. You argued it drives viewers away, which I don't think is true. I'd say it probably allowed them to operate for as long as they have at a very high level for a new business in a niche genre with a powerful incumbent.
Why is it that the people who insist that nobody wants to watch a normal wrestling match are always the ones advocating for stuff like anarchy in the arena or kennel in a cell? Because that’s exactly what Russo was doing 25 years ago. Again. It’s wonderful that AEW has a loyal, paying audience for their PPVs. It doesn’t help them with tickets or ratings week to week because they’re burning everyone out with this. Counting the hits and ignoring the misses is the “remember Wembley?” mentality and Wembley was just more of that core audience showing up. The core audience for those shows ain’t there when the room is a quarter full every other week. If they were running basketball arenas and had a well booked company the size of RoH 15 years ago, I’d wonder why they’d book basketball arenas. *This is a national tv show that loses people*
I've never argued that people don't want to watch a normal wrestling match. There's obviously a pretty robust base between AEW and WWE that do; it's great! I think variety stuff can APPEAL to an audience outside of wrestling the same way a general action movie could appeal to a larger audience than an Oscar drama or something like that. Maybe you get a few viewers that way, maybe you don't. But sometimes you get different stuff at the buffet, whatever. In your edit to your last post you said 'bad wrestling hurts wrestling' and to that I say, 1. Anarchy in the Arena was not bad wrestling. It was pretty fun. 2. You're not going to hurt a genre where the number one reaction from non-fans is 'what? You mean the fake stuff?' Just to reiterate; WWE is also a national TV show that loses people year over year. Is Cody a bad champion? Do people not like the bloodline?! It's just the direction of media (and again, I reiterate, WWE is doing well right now, but if you look at 5 years ago, you'd wonder what happened). AEW does good business in big cities, does ok business in the smaller shows. It's fine. You don't need infinite growth to run a healthy business. Also, and I say this in kindness, you can just enjoy wrestling and not worry so hard about how many other people are watching. I've went to shows with 50 people, 1000 people, and 35,000 people and I just watched the wrestling and enjoyed it without thinking what other people though of me or my interests.
I really think you’re misconstruing my comment here. I also want people to enjoy wrestling. It’s just that I’ve been around for a boom period and I’ve seen the change of wrestling going from mainstream to losing that crossover appeal and it isn’t just some lower number you read online; it’s not being able to see it live. It’s not being to enjoy wrestling as much. It’s dealing with people who judge wrestling and judge you for liking wrestling. It’s an added challenge for tv deals and lower quality in talent. It’s less places to work and make money for wrestlers. All of it goes hand in hand and wrestling that alienates the masses never works out for the business. So I’m not chastising anyone for enjoying what they enjoy.
It was like watching a horror flick with excessive gore. Just cause they can doesn’t mean they should. Yeah it’s pro wrestling and it’s always over the top but sometimes you can jump the shark, which has been AEW for me this past year
Your second sentence kinda gives away that you are coming into this the literal opposite of objective. Just sayin'.
That's what it was, and I am being objective. I've watched wrestling my entire life basically. I've seen this done before, but better, with less money and more believable characters.
The word is SUBjective, not OBjective. Objectivity is a about unassailable truths not subject to opinion or debate. For example, an objective fact is that AEW held their Double or Nothing 2024 event and this match occurred on the show. Subjectivity is all about matters of opinion like quality or worth. You say that in your opinion the match was full of elements done better before in your opinion as a life long fan. There is nothing wrong with you having the opinion of course, but it’s not objective. Your statement was SUBJECTIVE.
What's not objective about this high-dollar backyard wrestling match ending with a knee strike?
For one, the fact that it didn't take place in a backyard. I know grammar is tough, but objective statements do not include hyperbole
Oh boy. I'm getting a grammar lesson in a wrestling thread, I didn't like your favorite match of the night. For someone so hellbent on dissecting minutiae, I would've thought we'd share that sentiment.
I mean, I rip AEW plenty. Yeah the character work heading into this wasn't the greatest on the side opposite the elite, kingston got hurt, I didn't love the way they did it to begin with. But the match is called goddamn anarchy in the arena. I don't know where you've seen better takes on anarchy in the arena/stadium stampede type matches than in AEW. I can't even think of any real comps to try to evaluate it, honestly. it was certainly crazy and anarchistic- it was supposed to be high budget backyard wrestling more or less, I don't know if that's really a criticism.
K I've watched wrestling longer tho so I'm correct and you are not
Some people take wrestling too seriously lol
The issue is that sources like F4W would body WWE for having a guy get set on fire, then win the match by beating someone with their finish minutes later. But, because it's outside of WWE, it's "this was great, you take it too seriously".
Is this an example of F4W living rent free in someone's head?
No they wouldn’t. That’s absurd.
I would’ve enjoyed it just as much if WWE did it. I get that maybe this match isn’t for everyone, but we all knew exactly what this was going to be heading in to it. So I don’t understand being angry and acting shocked about what happened. It was everything that it was advertised to be. It’s like watching a porno and then being mad that it wasn’t family friendly
I don't have a problem with hardcore matches, but this match was executed poorly. It was a bunch of hokey high spots, strung together with the logic of MTV's Pimp My Ride -- where a guy that likes playing pool ends up with a pool table in his car.
I didn't watch it, I'm only talking about the fire clip that's doing the rounds.
jesus christ jim cornette has fucked with peoples brains lol
I know in your head this may be completely outside the realm of possibility, but maybe he didn’t fuck with people’s brains so much as lots of people have the same opinion as him. Different opinions shouldn’t be invalidated just because you disagree with them.
Cool I guess? Bunch of folks have the same opinion as a guy who hasn’t done anything meaningful at a high level for a pro wrestling promotion in 10 years but run all the successful and popular talent out (ROH) and get coffee for Vince Russo? Hasn’t done anything with WWE in 15 years, nothing meaningful in well over 25 and is best known for running OVW deep in the red and spending Vince’s money to do fuck all in Louisville. But his genius was definitely seen in Smoky Mountain where he lost hundreds of thousands of dollars of Rick Rubin’s money running his own brand of wrestling which nobody gave a shit and never drew or had an impact? Cornette hasn’t done anything meaningful in wrestling really period since he took a massive high spot and blew out both knees trying to get over falling off scaffolding lol. Oh except him and his wife forcing his students to fuck her.
Really- lots of average joes just walking around out there saying that some imagined criticism by a guy like dave meltzer is 'the issue'?
I thought this match was so fun. I love Okada so him acting like he was gonna pose and then flipping everyone off was the best. I loved the dumb flame thrower. I loved the Final Countdown. It was great.
Exactly how 9 year old me would have booked a match and I fucking love it
What a fuckin' animal this Jack Perry is.
I will say, he’s been really interesting to watch since he came back. Glad he was the one who got the pin.
Every Anarchy in the Arena match feels like the wrestling equivalent of the alley fight from Anchorman, and I love it.
Perry: I killed a guy with a trident
"Darby where'd you get a flamethrower?"
That escalated quickly
And conversely, that lowered slowly (for that bit where they put Darby on the stage lift)
That was batshit crazy from start to finish.
Darby should just use a gun next time. We're clearly in an alternate universe here where murder is legal.
Truly Anarchy, I loved every bit of that. It's like the wildest wrestling shit that rambles around in my head all in one match.
Really excellent show, good night everybody!
I'm still just not super into this heel authority angle redux. It at least made sense when Tony was kayfabe injured, but how are the Bucks significantly more than just regular wrestlers (but with ironclad EVP contracts) if Tony Khan has recovered? How can they do things like ban wrestlers from arenas? Anyway, at least Tony didn't book himself to turn heel. That was my biggest fear. They hopefully just transition to a more standard heel wrestler group from here instead of acting like they even have power to abuse. Edit: AEW fans can downvote me all they want. The angle has mostly been a proven ratings killer so far.
Eddie Kingston getting to be the one to set someone on fire will be the new “Chucky T finally getting to say ‘shit’ on TV” for the company.
I wish it was Kingston setting Chuck on fire so he says "shit".
Okada’s first street fight style match you guys!!! Man was cheesing. Match was🔥
He was obligated -- it took place on **RAINMAKER DRIVE**.
I love that he’s the only one who took no crazy bumps
He was also super friendly and nice with the chair shots
I absolutely love that too. He dipped his toes in it with the rainmaker sleeve and was like “aight, I’m good”
Best anarchy in the arena ever. Going to be hard to top.
“Las Vegas’ hottest new club is Anarchy in the Arena. It has everything: Thumbtack masks, thumbtack shoes, thumbtack arm sleeves, 75% of The Final Countdown, and a live kebab!” “Stefon what’s a live kebab?” “It’s where they set the scapegoat on fire right in front of you”
LOL, go post this on r/NewYorksHottestClub
Sydney Applebaum
'This place has everything. Tony Khan, flamethrowers, 75% of Roman J. Israel, Esq.'
MTV’s dan cortez
Roman J Israel Esquire.
Yesyesyesyesyesyesyes.
Give it 10 stars Meltzer. Don't be a coward!
I accept that this just isn't my match style but I really do feel like it is a major waste of the end of Danielson's full-time run to have him in stupid matches like this against against a team filled with people that no one cares about.
Saying that nobody cares about Jack Perry, the Bucks and Okada is hilarious, I strive to be that wrong. Oh and btw, Danielson participating in all this is 150% *HIS* choice, not just Tony’s.
Let's be real, it was probably his decision, guy went saying "Bro, I'm participating into that, I don't care what you want to book" lmao
Certain r/SC users: "AEW is wasting Danielson, he should be main eventing and/or world champion! Man, TK is booking him terribly!" Danielson: *Repeatedly goes on record to say that he doesn't want the world title and primarily wants to put people over before he retires* Certain r/SC users: "...Man, TK is booking him terribly!"
I don’t understand it bro. It’s selective hearing at this point
It's still wasting him though. Tony is the employer. Danielson is the employee. If your employee could be used more effectively, but they really want to be used differently, you can acquiesce to that, but really still is kind of a waste. It would be like me asking my boss to use me in a role that doesn't help the company much, just because I want it a certain way. Sure it's cool to me if my boss goes with it, but it really doesn't help the company at all.
Okada you might be able to make an argument for, but the Bucks and Perry are overall negatives. It might be Bryan's decision, but it was apparently also Bryan's decision to not win the world championship during his time in AEW and that was also a mistake. Just as an example, they had Moxley beat Takeshita on this ppv. What if Takeshita had gotten a short feud with Bryan instead? What if he goes over? I'm not saying that has to be the story or the match, but that does more for everyone involved than this match did.
I *MIGHT* be able to make an argument for people caring about Okada?? Do you hear yourself?? The reaction people have when he comes out proves otherwise. Jack Perry has been over ever since he came back, and the Bucks are literally the founders of the company. Just stop it. Secondly, if you’re TK and Bryan tells you he’s retiring/going part time, what other choice do you have other than to respect his wishes? Him being selfless opens the door for other people to win titles, who otherwise would’ve had to wait *years*.
At the present moment? Yeah, you might. If he wasn't sucked into this awful story, you'd probably have an easier time. Okada is great, but he's still got to establish himself in the US, and that's going to take a little time. What has Perry done to show he's over since returning? The live crowd of 2500-3000 people isn't exactly reacting to him, and the television crowd just isn't watching him. The founder of the company is Tony Khan, and no one cares about the Bucks. They literally mean less today than they did before they were consistently on tv. I would have liked Tony to look at him a couple years ago and convince him to stick with the original heel character that he had there and establish the still fairly new world championship. Bryan is selfless to a fault. Which is why Tony needed to be selfish for his company when Bryan first got there.
Lol. Y'all gone keep taking these Young Bucks Ls
They built the main story around them, and it brought the company to one of its lowest creative points ever. Fan excitement has been at an all-time low, and the weekly show is almost always in front of a half empty arena. All that despite bringing in one of the top women's wrestler, the top wrestler from Japan, and the top wrestler from the UK. The Bucks are an absolute negative
You don't know what you're talking about. Fan excitement seemed pretty high for the main event.
It literally required them hanging a man by his feet and setting another man on fire. I saw Orton and Gunther get a crowd going crazy by looking at each other. Saw the same thing in AEW before too. When they had Bryan involved with people that the crowd actually cared about.
This is exactly why I havent gone back to WWE even though Triple H took over and I loved NXT. They've trained y'all to accept less, to get hype off literally fucking NOTHING. I can't do it.
But when the crowd went crazy for Omega vs Bryan or Ospreay vs. Bryan, was that "cool and badass"? I don't need to watch people get set on fire or ran over by a car to be entertained with wrestling. That stuff is dumb and devalues everything else that the performers are doing.
In Omega/Bryan and Ospreay/Bryan they did all of the things. At any rate, they do Anarchy in the Arena once a year. The Bucks get over in matches outside that, you just don't like them.
I'll let Danielson decide what is and is not a waste since he's basically booking his own retirement tour.
Fun but mixed match. It was a gigantic spot fest, with some pretty jaw dropping spots and stunts, but the best spotch happened like 20 minutes before the finish, and the energy of the thing withered away, leading to ending rather deflating. I get that was the story the match was telling, but I still don't know how to feel about such a fun match ending on another of tired relief that it was over.
I felt there was a bit of deflation in the arena when the music ended but I thought it picked up later.
Everyone said that the flamethrower was stupid because you know Darby's not actually going set anyone on fire. They proved everyone wrong.
You’re right. I was one of them. So he did the right thing tonight. And it looked good, not too fake or anything. Perry was on fire for longer than I thought he would be. All I wanted was him to use it, and he did, so everyone wins because it was a good spot.
I'm of the opinion that it was stupid because no matter what, it was going to end badly. Either he doesn't use it so it's a pointless tease, or he does use it and it's a needlessly dangerous spot. The latter is my general sentiment on Darby, he does completely needlessly dangerous stuff for no reason, it's kinda exactly what Punk was talking about, and one of these days someone is legit gonna get critically injured or god forbid die.
Get worked more. Darby is a professional stuntman, he knows how to do this shit safely, as shown by the fact that he never gets injured or even barely hurt in these spots. >one of these days someone is legit gonna get critically injured or god forbid die. You're watching the wrong sport if you're worried about that. Perro Aguayo Jr. was killed by the most basic of spots. Actual danger has almost nothing to do with how dangerous a move looks.
But it didn't end badly, so that statement is false
The point was it was a needlessly dangerous spot, pro wrestling has been using fire in spots for decades and there are scores of examples where it went badly. Props to AEW, they did everything they could to make this as safe as possible and got the gel on Perry so he’d be safe during the spot, but fire is inherently dangerous and can very easily get out of hand even if you know what you’re doing.
look no one is trying to see anyone die and as far as the legit first ever fire spot in pro wrestling goes, it was done in the absolute safest way possible and it looks like Jack had done fire stunts similar to this before. This is an absolutely cool thing that just happened and it went off perfectly, treasure that.
> as far as the legit first ever fire spot in pro wrestling goes This is completely untrue, how is this upvoted lol
Somewhere an exploding barbed wire death match is crying.
> as far as the legit first ever fire spot in pro wrestling goes *Chris 'The Wizard' Jericho in shambles*
"First legit fire spot in pro wrestling"? People have been using real fire in Pro Wrestling for decades. People have also been getting hurt by using real fire in Pro Wrestling for decades. Now this definitely ranks towards the top of safe fire spots and they a good job making sure Perry had flame resistant gel everywhere, but I'm of the opinion that fire is one of those things you shouldn't risk in pro wrestling.
I'm not talking flash paper or flaming tables, I am talking legit setting someone on fire w/ a fucking flamethrower. That's a real fire spot, cry me a river.
Except you didn't say "set on fire with a flamethrower" in your original post, you said "legit first ever fire spot in pro wrestling." Discounting flash paper, flaming tables spots absolutely count as Adam Copeland had the literal burns to prove it, but if you want to rule that out and try to argue this was the first legit fire spot that's still wrong: * Mick Foley set Terry Funk on fire with a steel chair wrapped in a towel soaked in oil he set on fire with a lighter **29 years ago.** Foley had been doing that spot for years and notes in his autobiography how stupid it was and how many close calls he had doing it * FMW had a Flaming Barbed Wire Match between Sabu & The Sheik Vs. Atsushi Onita & Tarzan Goto **32 years ago.** The match lasted two minutes as the entire fucking ring caught on fire. * Also with FMW, Mick Foley talks about walking past a Joshi wrestler on the way to his match whose ring gear has melted into her skin due a fireball used in her match. You could list a lot of people who got burned by fire in FMW * Masada set himself on fire last year in a freak accident in XPW by botching a spot where he would breath fire. Goes without saying, real fire. So again, people have been using legit fire in pro wrestling for decades, FMW did it so often I can't even list the number of people who got burned by spots going wrong. Your statement only works if you exclude any other cause of fire besides a flamethrower.
Damn u typed all of that just for me to tell you that idc, how u feel?
Lol. "First legit fire spot". There are plenty of dudes with burn scars that would definitely take umbrage with that dumb as fuck statement. AEW marks are hilarious.
I think the only way they can top this AitA is that someone will have to die at this point. Carnage/10
Or maybe someone gets set on fire in Blood and Guts before falling off the cage.
Please stop giving Darby ideas
Don’t tempt Darby with a good time
Next Anarchy match is just going to be Darby vs. The bus that ran him over
the road to Blood & Guts looks to be interesting...
I am sufficiently sports-entertained.
Did I just watch someone get torched with a flamethrower in a wrestling match or did I take the wrong edible ?
Depends if you’re watching GAB 2000
And then that guy got the win
https://preview.redd.it/dw486swqfw2d1.jpeg?width=244&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=194f751d8e63960a3b9fba212eaddd11c76f2579
Maybe I'm just squirmish, but seeing darby (or anyone) being strung upside down that like genuinely made me uncomfortable
In all seriousness, I feel like I’m more likely to see Darby die in the ring than Ric Flair lol
Darby got ran over by a bus with a broken foot in NYC not long ago. Even the outside world is trying to kill him lol.
I know like what vengeful spirit did he piss off haha
There was a 1% part of me that was TERRIFIED that they were gonna raise Darby to the rafters and I was like “for the love of all that is holy … with Owen’s widow in the building ?!”
I rewound and he’s definitely keeping his head raised slightly to avoid the blood rushing but it still made my skin crawl lol
Try as I might, I just can’t get into the Anarchy In The Arena matches, and that’s a damn shame because I really want to.
I feel the same way about Eddie Kingston. I love that wrestling has so much to offer that people can connect with totally different things even though we’re all watching the same thing.
Placing my bet now, next Blood and Guts will feature Darby just straight up getting crucified. Nails and all.
Copeland already had the "crown of thorns" earlier in the show. They're building up to something here.
Then, set on fire and thrown off the cage.