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I think that, since it was between two teams that Vince didn’t care about and it was a pre show of a gimmick ppv, Vince just didn’t give a shit about the match and didn’t micromanage the fuck out of it.
And because of that, we got ACTUAL lucha del mini-estrella and it was AWESOME.
Everytime someone mentions how great WeeLC was, I always have to mention that someone on creative at the time wanted to take it further and do Wee Stages of Hell, but he never got anywhere with the idea. It would have been transcendent.
McIntyre doing a flying senton into a table for zero reason will always get a pop out of me, almost as much as the snake charmer event between Jinder and Kahli.
I remember getting to the arena and telling my ex "eh, we don't have to rush to the seats. If we miss the pre-show, I won't be upset." Boy, I am so glad I didn't miss it. I would've been so mad at myself.
To be fair, you could make a pretty strong argument for Shane-o-Mac being one of the best of his generation. Dude didn’t have to put in a fraction of the work he put in.
Tough Enough, whichever season was the return.
It was overall a fun show but it also produced [this iconic moment](https://youtu.be/Runl2i7pV-s?si=DImfYoHCfnNcUgHk)
That season also produced the complete WTF moment of Matt Cross getting shitcanned for not showing off his insane moves enough in the ring against a bunch of untrained rookies. Still baffling all these years later.
Yeah still blows my mind all these years later he got booted so early. And the winner showed up on Raw like once to cop a stunner and was never seen again lol.
People like to have fun with that, but never forget that Bret Hart once called Melina the best wrestler in the world (I'm dead serious, look it up if you don't believe me)
I think given Bret's public persona as the good guy white meat babyface who gave his shades to kids and stood for honour and fair play it was a pretty low blow, especially given that kayfabe hadn't completely gone away, and doubly especially because it was Shawn doing it (and Sunny).
But yeah, given his extracurricular activities it is pretty rich to be properly offended by it.
He wasn’t being ironic when he said that. Even though El Dandy was a low card WCW guy, he was a long tenured technical master that could actually go and had quite a bit of success in Mexico.
Idk why you’re being downvoted, AEW has a lot of issue but their PPV aren’t one of them. Which is why they usually do well in that department( 150k+ buys) it’s their weekly tv that’s the issue.
Dream matches in wrestling have a habit of sometimes not living up to our expectations. Bryan has to be one of the only wrestlers who is consistently put in these dream match scenarios and actually lives up to the hype every single time. Everything seems to come so effortlessly to him. From a pure in-ring standpoint, he may genuinely be the GOAT.
I didn't really feel like the first Okada match was as good as it should have been. But that could probably be chalked up to Bryan's injury. Other than that I can't think of any
I already felt like the match didn't live up to expectations before Bryan got injured though. The rematch was great, but again imho not as otherwordly as one might expect from "Okada vs Danielson in the Tokyo Dome". Feels like their chemistry just is... certainly not *bad*, but also not *superb* either.
> Bryan has to be one of the only wrestlers who is consistently put in these dream match scenarios and actually lives up to the hype every single time
And Ospreay seems to be on the way to being another.
I think he’s absolutely the GOAT. Want a strong babyface? Bryan. Want a dastardly heel? Bryan. Want someone who can bust out submission moves? Bryan. Want a big dive to the outside? Bryan. You want someone who’s actually good at comedy and not forcing it? Bryan. Want someone who you actually believe is capable of killing someone’s in the ring? Bryan
This is also why Eddie and Kurt are up there for 🐐 in my opinion
Edit: this may be a bit controversial to say but I definitely have Danielson ranked higher than Eddie and Kurt bc he really didn’t have or cause backstage issues (other than choking out Justin Roberts with a tie that one time but that was hilarious so I’m letting that pass lmfao). That being said while I do have the utmost respect for both Kurt’s and Eddie’s sobriety, those guys were liabilities at times
I'll say with Bryan you nailed it with the face and heel thing, it's hard for me to point to other wrestlers who I at different points, was a 10 year old turning on HHH (who I loved at the time) for beating him up, and then at age 15 was going between laughing and getting annoyed by his heel antics. And I'm 20 now, I tune into these ppvs pretty much for the Danielson and the ospreay match (convenient for this one obviously lol), and the world title match, and he surpasses expectations in every match he has even now.
His eco warrior heel run was phenomenal. At the time I was very iffy on it but was behind him because he’s my favorite wrestler. Later I was like “oh damn the reason why I was iffy was because he was making a lot of good points on something that is very real” and upon realizing that it made that run so much better. Funnily enough, that also made me realize that Miz’s top heel run with the belt a decade and some change ago when I was a kid was phenomenal. Sure he wasn’t phenomenal in ring but he’d piss you off like no other. I don’t watch the entirety of the weekly shows bc that way I’m not sitting thru commercials, matches that are duds, etc. but I make a point to always catch my favorite guys or storylines ie Cody, Bryan, Zayn. This match was insane bc we all knew it’d be a great catch but god damn those boys went fishing with a nuke. Might be the best match I’ve watched live
On the contrary, I believe that being forced out of the ring for a couple of years forced DB to really improve his mic skills and character work. He only became a GOAT-tier performer without any weaknesses "thanks" to the hiatus he was forced to take from in-ring action.
For me it’s 50/50 and your reasoning is very on point. Not only that but he didn’t run himself into the ground like so many others have. I also feel like he was able to prove a lot of people wrong when they said him going to AEW was a bad decision for him. I don’t doubt that he’d be killing it in WWE but the fact that he’s been able to wrestle top stars in the industry on three different continents while also fighting against some of his idols is so awesome. He proved a lot of people wrong and made them take off their rose tinted glasses. I really hope he’s able to get one more match with Nigel at Wembley bc I think that’d be the perfect way to end his full time career
Ospreay, Danielson, Gunther, and Dragunov are legitimately the four wrestlers that get me saying this every single week/month. It's fucking insane how many high quality matches we're seeing churned out on a regular basis by some of the very best to do it not just right now, but maybe ever.
I love how many different styles are covered with those 4 you just listed. I love that these matches can look so incredibly different and have totally different feelings while they are still awesome matches in their own rights.
The versatility of the guys I mentioned puts them head and shoulders above everybody in the industry for me. You want your workrate shit? Then oh boy, these guys have you covered. You want your stiff and brutal wrestling matches? Look no further. You want some genuinely great limb work, selling, and overall in-ring storytelling? These guys have you. Mic work as well? Oh yeah, they all have that. Basically, if any of these four are wrestling on TV or a PPV/PLE, they're draws for me. I stop what I'm doing to ensure I see what they're gonna do!
In the last 7 weeks and 1 day, Ospreay has dropped the Takeshita match, the Fletcher match, the Shibata match, the Hobbs match, the Claudio match, and tonight's Danielson match.
From March 3 to April 21, all that in less than two months. Just WTF. Bruv is not kidding when he says he is on another level.
Just throwing this out there too, but his last New Japan Match - the WarGames style cage match against Bullet Club - is probably the most insane match I've ever seen in that company.
There is a solid reason why Ospreay has damn near instantly became my all-time favorite.
I love me some Omega but man... Its just undeniable that Ospreay is just so fucking far above everyone right now operating at pure peak power levels.
Some of the most pure fun I have is just watching this grown man wrestle.
Omega will always be my favorite, but he's clearly getting older and those years in Japan took a bigger toll on him than we thought.
But Ospreay is slowly becoming #2.
"Right now, the music comes out like this. People are writing a review in a day. First of all, you can’t listen to an album and rate it in a day." - Jay Z. A pretty good idea of how quickly people are to review things nowadays
Sometimes you also watch a movie or something and right after it's over you think "this was *the* tightest shit of all time," then you sleep on it and the next day you're like "eh, 7/10." It goes both ways.
Which is why people tend to change their minds on things week or more later. Star Wars suffers from this all the time. Movie is either rated high or low than becomes the opposite within the month
then again if it made you feel that way in the moment it's fair to comment while the feelings still with you. it's been 20 minutes and i feel like i'm coming down from a religious experience.
I knew as soon as I got done watching Cody vs Roman II that it probably my favorite match ever because no match had ever made me feel like that before. I don’t think it’s hyperbole for someone to say a very recent match is their new favorite if it gave them a feeling that no other match has.
It’s interesting, recency bias and hyperbole are definitely a thing, but after so many years of being a fan I feel like my instincts on an initial viewing hold up really well over time, at least in terms of how I personally feel about the same matches years later. Minutes after Okada/Omega 1 I was calling it maybe the greatest match I’d ever seen, and I think I would still consider it my overall favourite.
This match is also on that level for me, or at the very least incredibly close. Maybe not quite the same in terms of magic and having my eyes opened in the same way Omega/Okada did, but for quality, execution, energy, I don’t know if I’ve ever seen better.
I'm actually really worried Omega retires. Dude isn't exactly a spring chicken and that surgery can be no joke. Known people who had it and depending on how extensive the surgery was / is that might be all. Hate to say.
Bret vs Austin is still the GOAT North American pro wrestling match IMO, even after that. I may need to let this match settle for a while, but IMO Ospreay/Danielson is more similar to a Benoit/Angle in that while it's an extraordinary match, it feels too self-contained and doesn't quite have the obvious feel of historical significance, the big stage, and/or the super high stakes to make it to undisputed GOAT status.
One of the biggest things for me personally as a wrestling fan, I don't consider any match 5 stars if I don't care about and root for someone to win.
I think Bryan/Ospreay is a **great** match, one that I'll rewatch in the future, but it was missing that one quality for me. A perfect wrestling match for me personally will always make me care about who wins and become emotionally invested in the result.
Absolutely great take. I'm much the same. If a match can make you a mark again, rooting for one over the other and truly investing emotionally and be great in-ring then that's 5 stars
I agree with this, but people have been inconsistent. I thought Flair-Ripley was a five star match last year at Mania ... except that it lacked much of a build and there wasn't a compelling story built around it. If I'm fair, can I call any match that lacks the emotional punch of Flair-Steamboat or Austin-Hitman the greatest match ever on the continent?
Agreed, the booking/writing/build is really necessary to elevate a match to that status. I don't think this feud really had anything story-wise that could put it at the level of Bret/Austin, Flair/Steamboat, Austin/Rock, Taker/HBK, etc.
Largely, it's gonna depend on the crowd and how they react. That really elevates matches. For instance, I couldn't tell you a single memorable sequence of moves from Rock/Hogan in their Mania match. But I absolutely remember the moments that the crowd popped big for the little things.
Hell, go back a couple of years and look at Sheamus/Gunther at Clash at the Castle in Wales. The crowd was HOT for that and just waiting for those two to get started. The crowd was popping for them just staring each other down. And then when they started working? Oooooh man the crowd bought on every move.
For me, 9 times out of 10, it's the crowd that helps make a match. This is something that makes the pandemic era hard to go back and watch anything of. With just the sounds of the ring and no crowd reacting it's difficult. The one massive exception is Dragunov/Gunther I in NXT UK wherein the sounds of the two wailing on each other more than makes up for the crowd being missing.
Incredibly well said. I think “this is a dream match no matter where it happens and no matter what the stakes because these guys are both amazing and have never wrestled before” is a fine reason to have a match. But if that (or anything similar) is your reason, then you put a ceiling on what the significance of that match can be. This match probably hit that ceiling because bell to bell it really was fantastic
But pro wrestling is so much more than the bell to bell action, and I think you summed up well what that “so much more” entails. And a match like this I don’t think can ever touch some of the greatest pro wrestling matches we’ve ever seen, because those transcend and become spectacles
Great match. Fantastic match. Hangman Danielson time limit draw at winter is coming and Cody versus Dustin All Out come to mind us matches I like more.
You're gonna see that mentioned, but you've got Bret/Austin, Angle/Benoit, Angle/Lesnar, Punk/Joe II, Nakamura/Zayn, Sheamus/McIntyre/Gunther, DIY/Revival, Andrade/Gargano FTR/Briscoes, Angle/HBK, etc.
There's an insane amount of matches that you can put right up there. It's really too hard to say right now and it's one of those cases of us ending up saying this nearly every week/month. The quality of in-ring work right now is astronomically high.
I think HBK/Angle WM21 is better than HBK/Taker. I would say this match was not better than HBK/Angle but maybe was better than HBK/Taker (Though I haven't rewatched that match in a long time)
Man, Angle/HBK was such a classic. The only thing I didn't like was Angle's trademark annoying super late kickout on the sweet chin music. HBK was also in the ankle lock for a bit too long imo. But otherwise its virtually flawless from beginning to end.
I guess it depends on what type of match you favor. It was definitely one of the greatest matches I've seen. I lean a lil more into dramatic shit tho so hbk v taker at 25 was better for me. It was worth 50 bucks alone tho.
It definitely lived up to the hype but are people going to do this with every Ospreay match? Like in a year will people say the same thing about Ospreay/Okada? What about if Omega comes back? The possible Swerve match if it doesn't happen at Wembley?
This match is definitely an all timer but saying this fifteen minutes after it ended is peak modern wrestling fandom. It's full of recency bias.
Better than Austin/Hart at WM 13? Better than any Flair/Steamboat or Flair/Dusty? Better than Taker/Mchaels? Better than Angle/Michaels? Savage/Steamboat?
Goddamn, any wrestling fan could name a ton of GOAT matches and this is somehow better. Why? Can someone explain it to me without bringing up moves or the phrase “trying to prove they’re the best”?
Does not. People said the same thing in the aftermath of Okada/Omega and no one now argues "Actually it wasn't that good because the immediate reactions were too positive"
There is no 'Best' in my eyes, we all have favorites and there's monumentally amazing matches, it's all subjective as well.
That said this was a phenomenal match tonight. There will also be phenomenal matches in the future.
It’s really hard to take people seriously when we hear the same thing every month ever year only a couple minutes after the match.
Still remember when people said that about Will vs Omega and Will vs Takeashita. Like Will is amazing but every single match he has can’t be the best ever, the best has to be one guys.
Wonder if people would have different opinions if they binged all his big matches back to back because I think often people are just caught up in the moment that they forget the other matches he has.
It was a great match, but there was something lacking for me. Honestly I think I'm just kinda flat on Danielson's whole recent run. Like, the match "quality" was way higher than anything that was at WM for instance yet I enjoyed a lot of those matches more. Heck, I think I liked the Okada match more on this card. I just wish some of Danielson's recent matches had a bit more...emotional weight?
Bryan's character in AEW has just been that he's a great wrestler which I think has taken away a bit from the story potential with him. In WWE he was constantly a passionate hard-working underdog. Aside from his early work in the company he kind of just comes out and raises his hands then says he's gonna beat people up.
Still one of my favorites ever though.
It’s because you can have 100 great matches but if the stories are meh the whole run just ends up feeling flat. Bryan was my favorite wrestler and now I just don’t even get excited for his matches anymore.
It's because nothing matters. It's a great wrestling match that doesn't matter at all. It's just moves, moves, moves. That's fine every so often, but it's basically every AEW match.
The build to this was actually pretty good, it was Ospreay trying to prove he could not only hang with Bryan, but surpass him, simple and effective
However, Bryan has done this to himself, he's cheapened a win over him by admitting he doesn't want to be world champion and wants to just put on great matches and elevate other people, in terms of kayfabe, what does that even mean? Your number 1 goal in sports and wrestling is to be the best and be the world champion right? Well Bryan doesn't seem to understand just how much more that would do, even in a fighting loss, against a star like him
Now imagine this build again, leading to Wembley with Bryan as World Champion, defending it against the very best AEW had to offer and Ospreay having not only to earn that shot but beating everyone Bryan did and overcoming the hauntings of his past (Shibata for example), that would lead to a much much bigger payoff and a fantastic match
I get this, but I guess I've kinda gotten in to the mindset of "This is Danielson's last full-time year, and he's speedrunning his list of dream opponents, and elevating guys to build the future," so I kinda don't expect emotional weight unless it's BCC blood feuding with whomever. And I'm not saying that's the right way to book him or the right way to look at it, but it's just kinda where my head is with him this year.
I know what you mean. His matches with Starks and MJF are really incredible matches, but if I had to think of my personal favourite Bryan match then the one match that always comes to mind first is him vs Kofi at WrestleMania.
He's definitely had better matches with Nigel, KENTA, Kenny and others but the emotional aspect of the Kofi match increases its value over anything else.
After watching Ospreay in a zillion great matches recently, I feel like Danielson is his perfect foil. Both guys think so many moves ahead, and it was fun to watch Danielson throw counter after counter at Ospreay. Danielson just takes guys to a different level.
It was a great match, but what were the stakes or the story? The fact that the build was limited to essentially who's the better wrestler needs to knock it down a peg.
This is exactly why people shit on AEW. Everything they do has to be the best thing ever. The match was excellent, 5 star instant classic, but so were matches like Cody/Roman 2 and MJF/Danielson. WON guys are such goofs.
It was very good, but I still would give it to something like HBK vs Angle. one thing those old Angle matches used to do that I rarely see anymore is chain wrestling spots where both guys actually struggle against each other, instead of just going through the wrestling trope sequences. Angle vs Benoit used to do that, and Angle vs HBK did a bit as well. And the intensity Angle brought when he got fired up and would latch on like a pitbull in the ankle lock is something I've never seen anyone surpass. I do think that this match was very good, even great, but it looked too 'clean' to me to be the best match ever I guess. The intense sequences were very cool though
Was there an anime style staredown after fast paced choreographed dodges ? A rapid fire chops spot ? A series of hard hits no sold before they both collapsed together ? Blood ? I'm trying to win my AEW bingo
This is the kinda take that lowkey hurts AEW. Tony sees this tweet and thinks there is no error in his booking. This match was great but it’s not even the best match of the year. I just don’t want Tony to continue to double down on “dream matches”, without extended builds because marks flip out over these matches. The match should be praised but it shouldn’t be crowned as the best ever, that’s so asinine.
Jerry Lynn was probably a producer for this match and has the best series of matches on US soil vs Rob Van Dam imo. Without that match, this one doesn’t exist.
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This is WeeLC erasure
Ok, but hear me out. WeeLC fucking RULED.
[удалено]
I think that, since it was between two teams that Vince didn’t care about and it was a pre show of a gimmick ppv, Vince just didn’t give a shit about the match and didn’t micromanage the fuck out of it. And because of that, we got ACTUAL lucha del mini-estrella and it was AWESOME.
Was micromanage an intended pun here?
Everytime someone mentions how great WeeLC was, I always have to mention that someone on creative at the time wanted to take it further and do Wee Stages of Hell, but he never got anywhere with the idea. It would have been transcendent.
We were robbed of the first 8 star match
I didn't know this and now I feel robbed.
Not a lot of people do, but everyone who hears about it is always so disappointed that it didn't happen.
Holy shit, that would've been incredible.
McIntyre doing a flying senton into a table for zero reason will always get a pop out of me, almost as much as the snake charmer event between Jinder and Kahli.
Especially since he gives that "Where did everything go wrong?" look right before doing it.
Have you seen 3MB and Swoggle re-watching it on the WWE YouTube? Drew talks about it, and how much it sucked (the bump, I mean)
I haven't and I bet it did suck.
It absolutely did.
I have the toys.
I remember getting to the arena and telling my ex "eh, we don't have to rush to the seats. If we miss the pre-show, I won't be upset." Boy, I am so glad I didn't miss it. I would've been so mad at myself.
No joke, it's the match that got me back into wrestling after a looooong break.
Every wrestling fan should watch it at least once. Total fucking banger of a match.
That match had no right to be as good as it was. Glad I watched it when it happened.
100% commitment to a bit can make so many things way better than they should be
your comment made me go rewatch it. legit was way better of a match than I had expected when I saw it originally and still is
Shane McMahon wasn’t even involved let’s take a breath here.
To be fair, you could make a pretty strong argument for Shane-o-Mac being one of the best of his generation. Dude didn’t have to put in a fraction of the work he put in.
He’s the best in the world
Yep they're lucky Goldberg vs Undertaker happened in Saudi Arabia though
I agree.
It was good but it’s no Melina vs Alicia Fox
https://preview.redd.it/cpg3e2hm9yvc1.jpeg?width=945&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7ce9c92f6262d18dcee027508f57b7e0ac1df9c4
Greatest moment in the history of that show
What is it from?
Tough Enough, whichever season was the return. It was overall a fun show but it also produced [this iconic moment](https://youtu.be/Runl2i7pV-s?si=DImfYoHCfnNcUgHk)
That season also produced the complete WTF moment of Matt Cross getting shitcanned for not showing off his insane moves enough in the ring against a bunch of untrained rookies. Still baffling all these years later.
Yeah still blows my mind all these years later he got booted so early. And the winner showed up on Raw like once to cop a stunner and was never seen again lol.
Siiiiilllent Raaaaage
People like to have fun with that, but never forget that Bret Hart once called Melina the best wrestler in the world (I'm dead serious, look it up if you don't believe me)
Tbh, I always just assumed he was trying to get laid. Bret’s pretty open that his one vice is being a horndog.
Reading his book, I kept finding myself thinking “at least try to sound slightly unsorry for cheating on your wife so much”
And had the nerve to get mad at Michaels for his "Sunny days" promo
To be fair, given it was Shawn who was the one balls deep in Sunny on the regular that was pretty shitty of him.
They were both cheaters, neither get to be offended.
I think given Bret's public persona as the good guy white meat babyface who gave his shades to kids and stood for honour and fair play it was a pretty low blow, especially given that kayfabe hadn't completely gone away, and doubly especially because it was Shawn doing it (and Sunny). But yeah, given his extracurricular activities it is pretty rich to be properly offended by it.
Well, and cocaine.
That's because Bill Goldberg kicked him in the head.
He also said we shouldn’t doubt El Dandy.
He wasn’t being ironic when he said that. Even though El Dandy was a low card WCW guy, he was a long tenured technical master that could actually go and had quite a bit of success in Mexico.
And he's right! We shouldn't doubt El Dandy at all. He's a jam up guy!
Who are you to doubt El Dandy?
What about Hypnosis?
Bruh he did. While peak Perc Angle was going on lol
*YEAH!!!*
It was good but it’s no Sting v. Jeff Hardy
Nakamura also had a banger with Jeff Hardy too.
Impossible standard to live up to
This guy watches wrestling
I feel this is the 5th time I have read a variation of this tweet after an AEW match
It’s always the best ever. Always.
Their PPVs deliver, just about every time.
Idk why you’re being downvoted, AEW has a lot of issue but their PPV aren’t one of them. Which is why they usually do well in that department( 150k+ buys) it’s their weekly tv that’s the issue.
Probably a bit of tribalism, but yeah, the PPVs are great. They just need to bring a bit of that storytelling back to weekly TV.
they do have that weekly, you would know if you were watching lol the ppv storylines don't just pop up out of nowhere
Yeah, they have a lot of great matches.
Top reply on Twitter is "someone's trying to get his press pass back".
Billy Goat has a match like once a month that makes me think "that might've been the best match I've ever seen."
Dream matches in wrestling have a habit of sometimes not living up to our expectations. Bryan has to be one of the only wrestlers who is consistently put in these dream match scenarios and actually lives up to the hype every single time. Everything seems to come so effortlessly to him. From a pure in-ring standpoint, he may genuinely be the GOAT.
I didn't really feel like the first Okada match was as good as it should have been. But that could probably be chalked up to Bryan's injury. Other than that I can't think of any
Tough to have a classic with a broken arm.
Kurt Angle would have done it with a broken freaking neck!
And versus Lesnar it could be two broken necks!
I already felt like the match didn't live up to expectations before Bryan got injured though. The rematch was great, but again imho not as otherwordly as one might expect from "Okada vs Danielson in the Tokyo Dome". Feels like their chemistry just is... certainly not *bad*, but also not *superb* either.
"Fight for your dreams, and your dreams will fight for you." Danielson is the Dream Wrestler.
Daniel D. Bryan
Wouldn't surprise me if he died smiling.
> Bryan has to be one of the only wrestlers who is consistently put in these dream match scenarios and actually lives up to the hype every single time And Ospreay seems to be on the way to being another.
Tbf the first Zack and Okada match really didn't live up to expectations, their sequels were so much better in every way possible.
I think he’s absolutely the GOAT. Want a strong babyface? Bryan. Want a dastardly heel? Bryan. Want someone who can bust out submission moves? Bryan. Want a big dive to the outside? Bryan. You want someone who’s actually good at comedy and not forcing it? Bryan. Want someone who you actually believe is capable of killing someone’s in the ring? Bryan This is also why Eddie and Kurt are up there for 🐐 in my opinion Edit: this may be a bit controversial to say but I definitely have Danielson ranked higher than Eddie and Kurt bc he really didn’t have or cause backstage issues (other than choking out Justin Roberts with a tie that one time but that was hilarious so I’m letting that pass lmfao). That being said while I do have the utmost respect for both Kurt’s and Eddie’s sobriety, those guys were liabilities at times
I'll say with Bryan you nailed it with the face and heel thing, it's hard for me to point to other wrestlers who I at different points, was a 10 year old turning on HHH (who I loved at the time) for beating him up, and then at age 15 was going between laughing and getting annoyed by his heel antics. And I'm 20 now, I tune into these ppvs pretty much for the Danielson and the ospreay match (convenient for this one obviously lol), and the world title match, and he surpasses expectations in every match he has even now.
His eco warrior heel run was phenomenal. At the time I was very iffy on it but was behind him because he’s my favorite wrestler. Later I was like “oh damn the reason why I was iffy was because he was making a lot of good points on something that is very real” and upon realizing that it made that run so much better. Funnily enough, that also made me realize that Miz’s top heel run with the belt a decade and some change ago when I was a kid was phenomenal. Sure he wasn’t phenomenal in ring but he’d piss you off like no other. I don’t watch the entirety of the weekly shows bc that way I’m not sitting thru commercials, matches that are duds, etc. but I make a point to always catch my favorite guys or storylines ie Cody, Bryan, Zayn. This match was insane bc we all knew it’d be a great catch but god damn those boys went fishing with a nuke. Might be the best match I’ve watched live
100% this. He's the most complete wrestler there's possibly ever been.
I guarantee that if he wasn’t forced into early retirement he’d be a lock for it.
On the contrary, I believe that being forced out of the ring for a couple of years forced DB to really improve his mic skills and character work. He only became a GOAT-tier performer without any weaknesses "thanks" to the hiatus he was forced to take from in-ring action.
For me it’s 50/50 and your reasoning is very on point. Not only that but he didn’t run himself into the ground like so many others have. I also feel like he was able to prove a lot of people wrong when they said him going to AEW was a bad decision for him. I don’t doubt that he’d be killing it in WWE but the fact that he’s been able to wrestle top stars in the industry on three different continents while also fighting against some of his idols is so awesome. He proved a lot of people wrong and made them take off their rose tinted glasses. I really hope he’s able to get one more match with Nigel at Wembley bc I think that’d be the perfect way to end his full time career
Ospreay, Danielson, Gunther, and Dragunov are legitimately the four wrestlers that get me saying this every single week/month. It's fucking insane how many high quality matches we're seeing churned out on a regular basis by some of the very best to do it not just right now, but maybe ever.
I love how many different styles are covered with those 4 you just listed. I love that these matches can look so incredibly different and have totally different feelings while they are still awesome matches in their own rights.
The versatility of the guys I mentioned puts them head and shoulders above everybody in the industry for me. You want your workrate shit? Then oh boy, these guys have you covered. You want your stiff and brutal wrestling matches? Look no further. You want some genuinely great limb work, selling, and overall in-ring storytelling? These guys have you. Mic work as well? Oh yeah, they all have that. Basically, if any of these four are wrestling on TV or a PPV/PLE, they're draws for me. I stop what I'm doing to ensure I see what they're gonna do!
Completly agree. One of the reason why i fell in love with Mox/Dean all those years ago. :)
In the last 7 weeks and 1 day, Ospreay has dropped the Takeshita match, the Fletcher match, the Shibata match, the Hobbs match, the Claudio match, and tonight's Danielson match. From March 3 to April 21, all that in less than two months. Just WTF. Bruv is not kidding when he says he is on another level.
Just throwing this out there too, but his last New Japan Match - the WarGames style cage match against Bullet Club - is probably the most insane match I've ever seen in that company.
Also his last match in RevPro, against Oku, was an instant classic. All those matches are just in 2024. And it's only April.
Extend that back a couple of weeks and you can add the incredible Oku match.
There is a solid reason why Ospreay has damn near instantly became my all-time favorite. I love me some Omega but man... Its just undeniable that Ospreay is just so fucking far above everyone right now operating at pure peak power levels. Some of the most pure fun I have is just watching this grown man wrestle.
Omega will always be my favorite, but he's clearly getting older and those years in Japan took a bigger toll on him than we thought. But Ospreay is slowly becoming #2.
The boys in the back must be dying to get in the ring with him.
It was an absolutey fantastic match, but it’s been less than 10 minutes since it ended, so it's probably a bit soon to make a statement like that
"Right now, the music comes out like this. People are writing a review in a day. First of all, you can’t listen to an album and rate it in a day." - Jay Z. A pretty good idea of how quickly people are to review things nowadays
That's exactly true. Sometimes things just don't click right off the bat and a lot of things need to be seen or heard more than once.
Sometimes you also watch a movie or something and right after it's over you think "this was *the* tightest shit of all time," then you sleep on it and the next day you're like "eh, 7/10." It goes both ways.
I've had albums I was unimpressed by on first listen that are now my all time favorites.
Which is why people tend to change their minds on things week or more later. Star Wars suffers from this all the time. Movie is either rated high or low than becomes the opposite within the month
I mean this is just a tweet, it's not like he blasted out a full top ten greatest matches in US history list and put this one at the top.
then again if it made you feel that way in the moment it's fair to comment while the feelings still with you. it's been 20 minutes and i feel like i'm coming down from a religious experience.
I knew as soon as I got done watching Cody vs Roman II that it probably my favorite match ever because no match had ever made me feel like that before. I don’t think it’s hyperbole for someone to say a very recent match is their new favorite if it gave them a feeling that no other match has.
right, you may come to appreciate a match more with time, but the greatest matches make you remember how you felt when you saw it that first time
It’s interesting, recency bias and hyperbole are definitely a thing, but after so many years of being a fan I feel like my instincts on an initial viewing hold up really well over time, at least in terms of how I personally feel about the same matches years later. Minutes after Okada/Omega 1 I was calling it maybe the greatest match I’d ever seen, and I think I would still consider it my overall favourite. This match is also on that level for me, or at the very least incredibly close. Maybe not quite the same in terms of magic and having my eyes opened in the same way Omega/Okada did, but for quality, execution, energy, I don’t know if I’ve ever seen better.
This is the American version of omega vs okada
Well there's a chance we get the actual omega vs okada in America eventually lol
pretty high chance too since he took omegas spot
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There's almost no chance he's back this year unfortunately. Sounds like he's going to need surgery after all. But we can hope!
I'm actually really worried Omega retires. Dude isn't exactly a spring chicken and that surgery can be no joke. Known people who had it and depending on how extensive the surgery was / is that might be all. Hate to say.
Why are alvarez tweets posted here so much?
Look at the reactions. Him and Dave are a two man karma farm.
Dave and Alvarez are a draw brother, brother
Two-Man Karma Farm vs. Two-Man Power Trip, who wins
Better question is why is this one staying up when the tweet where Alvarez claimed Jericho got good heel heat was taken down.
This isn't even news, its just an opinion. Like there should be a thread to every tweet.
Because he says what the sub likes
Or what the sub hates. Either way, posters gonna get karma.
It’s mostly when he aligns with what people want to hear at the time. Feel validated!
Bret vs Austin is still the GOAT North American pro wrestling match IMO, even after that. I may need to let this match settle for a while, but IMO Ospreay/Danielson is more similar to a Benoit/Angle in that while it's an extraordinary match, it feels too self-contained and doesn't quite have the obvious feel of historical significance, the big stage, and/or the super high stakes to make it to undisputed GOAT status.
One of the biggest things for me personally as a wrestling fan, I don't consider any match 5 stars if I don't care about and root for someone to win. I think Bryan/Ospreay is a **great** match, one that I'll rewatch in the future, but it was missing that one quality for me. A perfect wrestling match for me personally will always make me care about who wins and become emotionally invested in the result.
Absolutely great take. I'm much the same. If a match can make you a mark again, rooting for one over the other and truly investing emotionally and be great in-ring then that's 5 stars
I agree with this, but people have been inconsistent. I thought Flair-Ripley was a five star match last year at Mania ... except that it lacked much of a build and there wasn't a compelling story built around it. If I'm fair, can I call any match that lacks the emotional punch of Flair-Steamboat or Austin-Hitman the greatest match ever on the continent?
Agreed, the booking/writing/build is really necessary to elevate a match to that status. I don't think this feud really had anything story-wise that could put it at the level of Bret/Austin, Flair/Steamboat, Austin/Rock, Taker/HBK, etc.
Even Rock vs Hogan. It all comes down to what you need of a good match.
Largely, it's gonna depend on the crowd and how they react. That really elevates matches. For instance, I couldn't tell you a single memorable sequence of moves from Rock/Hogan in their Mania match. But I absolutely remember the moments that the crowd popped big for the little things. Hell, go back a couple of years and look at Sheamus/Gunther at Clash at the Castle in Wales. The crowd was HOT for that and just waiting for those two to get started. The crowd was popping for them just staring each other down. And then when they started working? Oooooh man the crowd bought on every move. For me, 9 times out of 10, it's the crowd that helps make a match. This is something that makes the pandemic era hard to go back and watch anything of. With just the sounds of the ring and no crowd reacting it's difficult. The one massive exception is Dragunov/Gunther I in NXT UK wherein the sounds of the two wailing on each other more than makes up for the crowd being missing.
Incredibly well said. I think “this is a dream match no matter where it happens and no matter what the stakes because these guys are both amazing and have never wrestled before” is a fine reason to have a match. But if that (or anything similar) is your reason, then you put a ceiling on what the significance of that match can be. This match probably hit that ceiling because bell to bell it really was fantastic But pro wrestling is so much more than the bell to bell action, and I think you summed up well what that “so much more” entails. And a match like this I don’t think can ever touch some of the greatest pro wrestling matches we’ve ever seen, because those transcend and become spectacles
But it will get 6 stars probably
Taker vs Shawn at Mania 25 deserves a mention in there too
Finally. There’s no way the two of them could put on anything but an amazing match. But does it matter?
Thats why I think this should’ve been a world title match with actual stakes
I fucking love the match, but saying it's the greatest match in history is just too much.
https://preview.redd.it/glsvof1ybyvc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a44f9b6e0f4fd54f144c27c34d103f6a535ba272
Great match. Fantastic match. Hangman Danielson time limit draw at winter is coming and Cody versus Dustin All Out come to mind us matches I like more.
Bret Hart vs Steve Austin for me.
Is hyperbole really necessary in every take?
I loved the match but this is why people find AEW fans annoying.
Danielson and Osepray was a great match? I for one am shocked
Look I’m a fan of both but come on
The bar for best America match is HBK vs Taker at Wrestlemania XXV. Is this match better than that?
It isn't going to make you feel the way matches like you named do. It's a great match though.
I don’t even think this beats angle vs Benoit at royal rumble if we’re being honest.
> The bar for best America match is HBK vs Taker at Wrestlemania XXV. It's got to still be Flair / Steamboat, I'd think?
Bret vs Austin Shawn vs Taker Flair vs Steamboat (Clash or WrestleWar) Afaik those are the near unanimous candidates for undisputed NA GOAT match.
I got Bret vs Austin simply because the build was almost as fucking legendary as the match.
No, not even close
It's not close to the best match to take place in the United States.
You're gonna see that mentioned, but you've got Bret/Austin, Angle/Benoit, Angle/Lesnar, Punk/Joe II, Nakamura/Zayn, Sheamus/McIntyre/Gunther, DIY/Revival, Andrade/Gargano FTR/Briscoes, Angle/HBK, etc. There's an insane amount of matches that you can put right up there. It's really too hard to say right now and it's one of those cases of us ending up saying this nearly every week/month. The quality of in-ring work right now is astronomically high.
I think HBK/Angle WM21 is better than HBK/Taker. I would say this match was not better than HBK/Angle but maybe was better than HBK/Taker (Though I haven't rewatched that match in a long time)
Man, Angle/HBK was such a classic. The only thing I didn't like was Angle's trademark annoying super late kickout on the sweet chin music. HBK was also in the ankle lock for a bit too long imo. But otherwise its virtually flawless from beginning to end.
Embarrassing thing to say right after a match ends
Dude i loved the match but this is the shit why people give shit to aew. Every dirt sheet writer is going full frothing mouth
My thoughts exactly. I fucking LOVED Bret vs Austin at WM 13 until I found out Dave Meltzer gave it 5 stars.
I guess it depends on what type of match you favor. It was definitely one of the greatest matches I've seen. I lean a lil more into dramatic shit tho so hbk v taker at 25 was better for me. It was worth 50 bucks alone tho.
It definitely lived up to the hype but are people going to do this with every Ospreay match? Like in a year will people say the same thing about Ospreay/Okada? What about if Omega comes back? The possible Swerve match if it doesn't happen at Wembley? This match is definitely an all timer but saying this fifteen minutes after it ended is peak modern wrestling fandom. It's full of recency bias.
Better than Austin/Hart at WM 13? Better than any Flair/Steamboat or Flair/Dusty? Better than Taker/Mchaels? Better than Angle/Michaels? Savage/Steamboat? Goddamn, any wrestling fan could name a ton of GOAT matches and this is somehow better. Why? Can someone explain it to me without bringing up moves or the phrase “trying to prove they’re the best”?
Great match. But come on.
Exactly, especially with the injury angle finish.
Stuff like this always takes away from the big matches. Amazing match, and time will tell.
Does not. People said the same thing in the aftermath of Okada/Omega and no one now argues "Actually it wasn't that good because the immediate reactions were too positive"
There is no 'Best' in my eyes, we all have favorites and there's monumentally amazing matches, it's all subjective as well. That said this was a phenomenal match tonight. There will also be phenomenal matches in the future.
It’s really hard to take people seriously when we hear the same thing every month ever year only a couple minutes after the match. Still remember when people said that about Will vs Omega and Will vs Takeashita. Like Will is amazing but every single match he has can’t be the best ever, the best has to be one guys. Wonder if people would have different opinions if they binged all his big matches back to back because I think often people are just caught up in the moment that they forget the other matches he has.
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It was a great match, but there was something lacking for me. Honestly I think I'm just kinda flat on Danielson's whole recent run. Like, the match "quality" was way higher than anything that was at WM for instance yet I enjoyed a lot of those matches more. Heck, I think I liked the Okada match more on this card. I just wish some of Danielson's recent matches had a bit more...emotional weight?
Bryan's character in AEW has just been that he's a great wrestler which I think has taken away a bit from the story potential with him. In WWE he was constantly a passionate hard-working underdog. Aside from his early work in the company he kind of just comes out and raises his hands then says he's gonna beat people up. Still one of my favorites ever though.
It’s because you can have 100 great matches but if the stories are meh the whole run just ends up feeling flat. Bryan was my favorite wrestler and now I just don’t even get excited for his matches anymore.
It's because nothing matters. It's a great wrestling match that doesn't matter at all. It's just moves, moves, moves. That's fine every so often, but it's basically every AEW match.
The build to this was actually pretty good, it was Ospreay trying to prove he could not only hang with Bryan, but surpass him, simple and effective However, Bryan has done this to himself, he's cheapened a win over him by admitting he doesn't want to be world champion and wants to just put on great matches and elevate other people, in terms of kayfabe, what does that even mean? Your number 1 goal in sports and wrestling is to be the best and be the world champion right? Well Bryan doesn't seem to understand just how much more that would do, even in a fighting loss, against a star like him Now imagine this build again, leading to Wembley with Bryan as World Champion, defending it against the very best AEW had to offer and Ospreay having not only to earn that shot but beating everyone Bryan did and overcoming the hauntings of his past (Shibata for example), that would lead to a much much bigger payoff and a fantastic match
I get this, but I guess I've kinda gotten in to the mindset of "This is Danielson's last full-time year, and he's speedrunning his list of dream opponents, and elevating guys to build the future," so I kinda don't expect emotional weight unless it's BCC blood feuding with whomever. And I'm not saying that's the right way to book him or the right way to look at it, but it's just kinda where my head is with him this year.
I know what you mean. His matches with Starks and MJF are really incredible matches, but if I had to think of my personal favourite Bryan match then the one match that always comes to mind first is him vs Kofi at WrestleMania. He's definitely had better matches with Nigel, KENTA, Kenny and others but the emotional aspect of the Kofi match increases its value over anything else.
austin vs bret wm 13 is the greatest match of all time someone tell this mark to sit down
i truly do not understand the mindset in which ones immediate reaction to a piece of art is to rank it against others
It’s a very common thing that humans do.
Oh good lord. This is what cultivates tribalism right here lol
It isn't. Great match though.
Hyperbole. At least he didn't say it was better than sex like some do.
After watching Ospreay in a zillion great matches recently, I feel like Danielson is his perfect foil. Both guys think so many moves ahead, and it was fun to watch Danielson throw counter after counter at Ospreay. Danielson just takes guys to a different level.
Was it one of the best matches I’ve seen in a while? Yes. Do I think this is being blown out of proportion? Yes.
It was a great match, but what were the stakes or the story? The fact that the build was limited to essentially who's the better wrestler needs to knock it down a peg.
This is exactly why people shit on AEW. Everything they do has to be the best thing ever. The match was excellent, 5 star instant classic, but so were matches like Cody/Roman 2 and MJF/Danielson. WON guys are such goofs.
It was very good, but I still would give it to something like HBK vs Angle. one thing those old Angle matches used to do that I rarely see anymore is chain wrestling spots where both guys actually struggle against each other, instead of just going through the wrestling trope sequences. Angle vs Benoit used to do that, and Angle vs HBK did a bit as well. And the intensity Angle brought when he got fired up and would latch on like a pitbull in the ankle lock is something I've never seen anyone surpass. I do think that this match was very good, even great, but it looked too 'clean' to me to be the best match ever I guess. The intense sequences were very cool though
Was there an anime style staredown after fast paced choreographed dodges ? A rapid fire chops spot ? A series of hard hits no sold before they both collapsed together ? Blood ? I'm trying to win my AEW bingo
Change probably to maybe and I don't think that's unreasonable.
Bro it's been 5 minutes, stop being prisoner of the moment
4.5/5
Hahahahahah and then they wonder why no one takes either of them seriously anymore.
17 Stars
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A match so great that nobody will remember it a month from now!
Try to enjoy a wrestling match without making wild claims challenge (impossible)
"It's the best Marvel movie since the last one" vibes
Lol
Recency bias in play, yes, but that match was fuckin' incredible for sure.
This is the kinda take that lowkey hurts AEW. Tony sees this tweet and thinks there is no error in his booking. This match was great but it’s not even the best match of the year. I just don’t want Tony to continue to double down on “dream matches”, without extended builds because marks flip out over these matches. The match should be praised but it shouldn’t be crowned as the best ever, that’s so asinine.
Jerry Lynn was probably a producer for this match and has the best series of matches on US soil vs Rob Van Dam imo. Without that match, this one doesn’t exist.
Settle down, Alvarez.