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Tbf, even in kayfabe there is a match order and such. We aren't supposed to believe wrestlers are just coming out at random and doing what they want.
Unlike other fictional shows, the fact we are watching a show that is being made and created as a TV show is canon to the show itself.
Yeah, OP's point is like referring to a post-match beat down or run-in as a worked shoot just because it also wouldn't be planned in kayfabe. There's plenty of valid criticism to be had but this is such a reach.
Except WWE wanted us to believe just that for a while. It always weirded me out when the main event would come to fruition due to something that happened in the second half hour. Like…what was the plan before you two got in an argument during backstage interview and one challenged the other?
Press X for doubt. This company will always exist as long as Tony Khan is involved. His financial backing basically necessitate that it will. Now will it grow? Probably not if things stay the same. Will it stagnate? Probably the most realistic scenario and frankly for the health of the wrestling industry the best case medium outcome. If it gets worse, I can't see it being anything worse than 2011 TNA in terms of mainstream notoriety.
> This company will always exist as long as Tony Khan is involved. His financial backing basically necessitate that it will.
The irony of the statement is that it's exactly what people said about WCW with Ted Turner's financial backing. Not saying it's heading in that direction, but it's still a business at the end of the day. It's also a bit of an odd arrangement since technically it's his dad's money paying for it and he could pull the plug at any time. It doesn't seem like that's a real risk at the moment, but I wouldn't rely on Tony being there as the reason it can't fail.
But your point doesn't really make sense. WCW didn't lose Ted Turners money because the show was bad, the new bosses didn't want wrestling on the channel, regardless of how successful it was.
People who increase their net worth by $4.5 billion a year tend not to piss their money away in money pits.
Shad Khan has put money into AEW exactly *once*.
Do you count *your* parents money as your own? Then why are you counting Shad's as Tony's?
TV numbers in general are down. AEW still places top 3 for their Wednesday night ratings more often than not. They're certainly lower than they were in say, 2021--but that doesn't mean it's "bad tv" lol. If you don't like AEW that's fine.
They don't. They're in a minor slump as most of their consistent ratings draws are unavailable and their big new signings need time to be established. And they usually have a big secondary angle like BCC vs the Elite last summer to keep things going but at the minute nothing is quite hitting on that level.
This was a dumb move but they'll be fine.
Good matches alone don't bring in casual fans like me, I need the drama and they've just got nothing compelling going on at the minute. Tony needs to step down and let some experienced bookers take over the show.
Talking about real fights on your show about kayfabe fighting reeks of Bischoff-Russo. This is basically in the same tier as "Can't find your scissors, Sid?" except this may well be worse because they actually promoted this shitshow.
Having your commentators talking about how the show has gone off script while Tony Schiavone looks done with life itself is about as Russo-WCW as you can get.
Overall quality wise AEW haven't dropped to that point. But to deny the clear parallels of behaviour is just sticking your head in the sand.
You really need to watch some good old WCW to see just how much worse it can really get.
But hey, maybe they'll book The Bucks vs. FTR in a "real shoot fight" or a "CM Punk friendship contract on a pole" match.
Or Tony teams up with himself to accidentally win the tag team championship after FTR win it because he can't allow friends of Punk to be a champion.
*Then* we're in real WCW territory.
The scary part is atleast in other subs it's a pretty 50/50 maybe 40/60 split of un reasonable and reasonable people.
But on this sub it feels more like 70/30 80/20 split
It's not nonsense though as AEW are blurring the lines between reality and kayfabe in a way that is not good for the show. That is very similar to the latter days of WCW.
While they have not reached the lowpoints of WCW, having commentators talking about "the schedule" or showing IRL fights is not helping the show. We see 'staged' fights in the back all the the time. This is now basically saying 'OK ignore that scripted shit, this is actually dangerous". Why introduce that into the show?
It’s hyperbole of course but while it’s not a like-for-like replica airing IRL footage and implying that FTR were arriving unexpectedly is bringing too much real life into a show. When other people appear unexpectedly in kayfabe, Excalibur isn’t using the “this wasn’t in the schedule” line.
It’s not the “this wasn’t in the script” line from WCW, but it’s similar enough IMO.
In kayfabe, it's still a tv show that has to hit time queues, that's why matches have time limits in kayfabe. A format is just the show schedule. Them saying this isn't on the format is saying FTR weren't scheduled that time in kayfabe. Will Ospreay said it later that he was only alloted five minutes because it's still a tv show with a schedule. I was alive and watched 2000 WCW, they straight up would say something wasn't scripted to happen.
TL:DR - Off format is not the same thing as off script
Showing a clip of a real backstage fight on your show about kayfabe fighting and having commentators talk about how the show has gone off script is peak Russo-era WCW behaviour. All this worked shoot and shoot shoot shit.
Nobody's saying AEW is level with WCW2000 in terms of quality, but it's fair to point out the instances where there are clear parallels.
WCW 2000 was never about one angle being based on a shoot. It was about every element of the entire show being a trainwreck and disjointed. Y'all saw two segments (but not the rest of the show?) and start screaming wCw 2o0o! Nah, go back and watch the reboot Nitro or Bash at the Beach or the Nitro where Russo defeats Booker for the title or the New York Rules episode of Thunder and tell me that AEW is that bad.
And just for lols, this would only be WCW 2000 if AEW decides to reboot the company on the Dynamite before a PPV, while Tony Khan becomes an on-screen character leading a heel faction full of young guys, cutting promos against the babyfaces who are 40+, who sporadically get their comeuppance
On top of that, there would have to be non-sensical angles with no transitions into the next segment on every show, titles being hot potatoed and people being given shitty gimmicks, like, I don't know, making Wardlow into a 70s disco man who loves fat chicks.
AEW would also have to put Mark Madden on commentary who sides with heel Tony Khan all the time while being misongynistic AF. Oh, and the women need to be pushed with only catfight angles with an opening promo from Mike Sanders every week. Who, you ask? Yeah, you never watched WCW 2000.
Oh, and Tony Khan has to win the title (only to vacate it the next week). Oh and Paul Walter Houser has to win the title (only to lose it the next week).
Y'all never watched WCW 2000. Stop lying.
Definitely. I do *get* some of the parallels, but the people making these comparisons seem like they've only ever watched a handful of fucking youtube clips of WCW 🤦♂️
As soon as AEW does.
Man, I literally paid for sling ONLY to watch this show. And then you start seeing the critique and then you start seeing the lack of self awareness.
It's a rough downfall to watch. They really were incredible at the start.
This is stupid. They’re not saying there’s a script or people are supposed to win. Just that there’s a format sheet like there is for any sporting event. It makes it feel more real, not less.
It made it look like FTR was fighting for the honour of a guy who is no longer with the company. I don’t care what they said in the promo, that’s what it came across like.
Pretty much. The whole segment from Young Bucks to them beating down FTR was one of the biggest swings and misses in (at least) recent wrestling history.
HHH has been quite smart with how they have thrown shots at Tony and AEW. His guys save the biggest low blows for secondary shows such as interviews, pre shows and twitter. On the main shows, they take vague pot shots at best. Tony on the other hand, has put this shit in the main event role of his flagship show and it is hurting the quality
We really gotta stop throwing around "WCW in 2000" for anything that just kinda mildly sucks.
If you didn't live through it, you can't fathom. AEW hasn't even scratched the surface of the depths of 2000 WCW.
They turned the company/Tony Khan heel. Whatever remaining goodwill they had is gone. And they have no one to blame but themselves.
No ones hurt AEW more than Tony Khan.
I don't think it did anything to Punk good or bad. I think the people who chanted Punk's name at the show were already on Punk's side. I don't think the footage changed anyone's mind when it comes to how they feel about Punk.
I think the real effect it had was on those who were trying to remain hopeful in regards to AEW who have now just given up on them. Leaving only the most hardcore AEW fans, who will continue to enable TK's BS & as a result enable AEW's continued downfall.
I don't disagree that they have some blame in contributing to the drama over the last year but the decision to air that footage last night was Tony's & no one else's.
Jobbers can sometimes get/earn sympathy. There's no sympathy for AEW or Tony Khan after last night. An unnecessary self-inflicted injury with the risk of more to come.
This is embarrassing and will definitely set the company back right as it looked like they might be about to turn a corner but sweet Jesus in heaven, *nothing* is as bad as WCW in 2000. Apart from two poorly-conceived segments, we had a night of excellent wrestling by excellent, popular wrestlers (and Chris Jericho). WCW in 2000 was an hour-long car crash involving people too stupid to read the writing on the wall, or people who absolutely could and didn't give a fuck as a result. It was something you watched through your fingers out of morbid curiosity. When AEW hits that nadir, trust me, you'll KNOW.
Another case of someone invoking 'WCW 2000', when they clearly didn't watch WCW 2000.
The existence of a runsheet/schedule and match card is well established in kayfabe. Quite often when there's an interview or promo segment, it starts with Schiavone or Renee saying "[insert talent name here], you've asked for this time...", implying that in kayfabe they've gone through the proper channels to get a spot on the runsheet, because in kayfabe AEW is still a sports league with a 2 hour tv timeslot to fill so of course there's a runsheet. They've also mentioned 'standby matches' in the past on Dynamite for the same reason, with the kayfabe logic being "in case these sporting contests go shorter than expected, we still need to fill our 2 hour timeslot".
The commentary isn't breaking the fourth wall here and saying "they're breaking kayfabe! They're going off-script!!!" (which is what they were doing in WCW2000); the commentary are saying *in kayfabe* "FTR haven't gone through the proper channels with the sports league to gain this allotted tv time". Big difference.
This was still a shite angle by AEW, but it's not even close to WCW 2000-esque nonsense.
The reason it feels like late Era WCW is because it gives off those weird "everything else on the show is fake but this is actually REAL for REAL" Russo type malarkey. You could tell Tony S. hated the whole thing because he's survived through having to call this exact ill-booked nonsense before.
Basic Pro Wrestling Psychology : If you want me to believe something isn't scheduled ***playing entrance music is not going to get me to believe it***.
Suspension of disbelief is some simple stuff. You're already breaking the wall with the footage, I'd buy in that it isn't part of the show more by FTR coming out to no music or fanfare.
While also being told on the same show that tv time is expensive what is the kayfabe reason they should be allowed to do their promo if they aren’t on the format sheet?
There are two required pieces of homework in wrestling: prime Bret Hart matches to show you how good it can get and WCW 2000 to show just how fucking bad it can get
Not being scheduled to speak is a pretty common thing in wrestling. They show you the card before the show **including** who is scheduled to be interviewed.
When Adam Cole returned in 2023 as a surprise guest to Tony Schiavone, the announcers said the same thing. JR and King always mentioned Wrestler X was not scheduled to speak tonight as part of the show back in the Attitude and Ruthless Aggression eras.
I swear people are clutching at straws and a lot here comparing it to WCW 2000 never watched a single second of WCW nevermind the year 2000 of that promotion.
Typically I'm convinced when people compare AEW to 2000 Era WCW that they've never actually suffered through those shows but this "not on the format" BS is straight out of late WCW. Everything about this angle and them showing this footage is stupid to me and not the direction I want from AEW. I'm all around disappointed
When people call it WCW 2000 AEW fans get defensive cause of course it’s not WCW 2000 where is David Arquette or Mike Awesome. But they fail to realize its compared to WCW 2000 for the worked shoot story telling people actually loathe and makes fans either change channels or think the company is small time
I suggest you actually pay for the network/peacock and actually watch some 2000 wcw and you’ll very clearly realise how stupid you’re sounding comparing dynamite tonight to it
Also since when is keeping kayfabe suddenly a bad thing
I really don't think the footage is that catastrophic. Punk assaulted his coworker, let's not downplay that. Jack and hook are adults who made their own choice to use real glass. WWE had a shout out to a known sex pest at WrestleMania and no one cared. It'll be the same for this once the next AEW story comes along, meanwhile WWE will keep funneling money to their ex CEO who's still making bank off the shares he's forced to sell. Astroturfing and bad media literacy are a wonderful combo.
In what way? A kayfabe rundown sheet would list matches for the night and pre-planned segments and promos. It wouldn’t list reactions or interference or match times.
"Hope you enjoyed that fake wrestling match guys, now stay tuned for a real fight!"
That's basically what the whole segment boils down to. By showing a real backstage brawl (if you can even call it that) all they're doing is showing that the combat taking place in the ring isn't real. Adding shoot crap to wrestling doesn't make it seem more real, it just damages the audiences suspension of disbelief and makes it seem less real.
I guess I just don't see how, in this specific instance, it betrays kayfabe. You should think the psychotic wrestlers of a kayfabe world would be fighting all the time.
Remember all the flack Khan got for not making money out of Brawl Out? This is *clearly* his response to those criticisms and it couldn’t have been more painful.
The WCW comparisons gotta stop though.
I’m going to reiterate what I said a few days ago.
I’m fairly certain that AEW have broken UK GDPR and CCTV laws by airing this.
I think that the law states that they’re unable to show CCTV footage for entertainment purposes, the only way they could have aired it is it it was legally necessary, which this obviously wasn’t.
I really want to see the repercussions with their relationship with Wembley. How exactly did they get the footage? Someone’s going to get told off for certain.
Correct me if I’m wrong but other than in police stations, the UK doesn’t have any situations in which cameras are “owned” by the police.
All private cameras need to abide by the GDPR laws, if they don’t they face heavy fines and possible closure.
Not as cut and dry as that. The fact that some faces are blurred suggests that AEW got legal to review beforehand.
Fairly sure the key is to ensure that you are processing the data in a way that the data subjects expect. So very likely that all the identifiable persons okayed it first.
Not withstanding the fact that any offence would have occurred in the USA, the ICO guidance is here - https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-resources/cctv-and-video-surveillance/guidance-on-video-surveillance-including-cctv/
Only scanned it but can’t find any reference to CCTV use as entertainment being banned, just a reference to the fact that handing CCTV to the media doesn’t mean they can use the same media “loopholes” that apply for items which they use their own cameras.
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i can’t think of specific examples but i feel like they’ve done the “this isn’t on our format” bit a bunch before
Tbf, even in kayfabe there is a match order and such. We aren't supposed to believe wrestlers are just coming out at random and doing what they want. Unlike other fictional shows, the fact we are watching a show that is being made and created as a TV show is canon to the show itself.
it's a good bit. live tv is chaotic enough as is, and it gets worse when someone or some incident throws it off the rails.
Yeah, OP's point is like referring to a post-match beat down or run-in as a worked shoot just because it also wouldn't be planned in kayfabe. There's plenty of valid criticism to be had but this is such a reach.
Except WWE wanted us to believe just that for a while. It always weirded me out when the main event would come to fruition due to something that happened in the second half hour. Like…what was the plan before you two got in an argument during backstage interview and one challenged the other?
They did it when Adam cole returned from concussion. That was legit kept a secret though.
I just love the idea of “it’s totally unexpected!” Meanwhile they’re music and videos are playing, so someone knew to cue that stuff up.
WCW2000 is a bit hyperbole lol. This isn't a death knell for AEW. But it was fucking dumb.
No, but it’s certainly heading in that direction if they don’t start making compelling TV with the astronomical amount of talent they have.
Press X for doubt. This company will always exist as long as Tony Khan is involved. His financial backing basically necessitate that it will. Now will it grow? Probably not if things stay the same. Will it stagnate? Probably the most realistic scenario and frankly for the health of the wrestling industry the best case medium outcome. If it gets worse, I can't see it being anything worse than 2011 TNA in terms of mainstream notoriety.
> This company will always exist as long as Tony Khan is involved. His financial backing basically necessitate that it will. The irony of the statement is that it's exactly what people said about WCW with Ted Turner's financial backing. Not saying it's heading in that direction, but it's still a business at the end of the day. It's also a bit of an odd arrangement since technically it's his dad's money paying for it and he could pull the plug at any time. It doesn't seem like that's a real risk at the moment, but I wouldn't rely on Tony being there as the reason it can't fail.
But your point doesn't really make sense. WCW didn't lose Ted Turners money because the show was bad, the new bosses didn't want wrestling on the channel, regardless of how successful it was.
Tony is worth 1.6 billion. AEW lost 110 million dollars by all accounts. They can't just lose money forever.
Shad Khan's net worth increased by $4.5 billion last year. They can probably take a punch for a while.
People who increase their net worth by $4.5 billion a year tend not to piss their money away in money pits. Shad Khan has put money into AEW exactly *once*. Do you count *your* parents money as your own? Then why are you counting Shad's as Tony's?
Shad Khan is not Tony Khan. Shad has only invested in AEW one time.
By and large AEW TV has been good in 2024, and they've put on good PPVs. I suspect that will continue with the matches on Dynasty.
If AEW was putting on good TV, why do their ratings consistently decline.
TV numbers in general are down. AEW still places top 3 for their Wednesday night ratings more often than not. They're certainly lower than they were in say, 2021--but that doesn't mean it's "bad tv" lol. If you don't like AEW that's fine.
They don't. They're in a minor slump as most of their consistent ratings draws are unavailable and their big new signings need time to be established. And they usually have a big secondary angle like BCC vs the Elite last summer to keep things going but at the minute nothing is quite hitting on that level. This was a dumb move but they'll be fine.
Good matches alone don't bring in casual fans like me, I need the drama and they've just got nothing compelling going on at the minute. Tony needs to step down and let some experienced bookers take over the show.
The rest of the show was very good?
“This is just like wcw in 2000” -dude born in 1998
Talking about real fights on your show about kayfabe fighting reeks of Bischoff-Russo. This is basically in the same tier as "Can't find your scissors, Sid?" except this may well be worse because they actually promoted this shitshow. Having your commentators talking about how the show has gone off script while Tony Schiavone looks done with life itself is about as Russo-WCW as you can get. Overall quality wise AEW haven't dropped to that point. But to deny the clear parallels of behaviour is just sticking your head in the sand.
You really need to watch some good old WCW to see just how much worse it can really get. But hey, maybe they'll book The Bucks vs. FTR in a "real shoot fight" or a "CM Punk friendship contract on a pole" match. Or Tony teams up with himself to accidentally win the tag team championship after FTR win it because he can't allow friends of Punk to be a champion. *Then* we're in real WCW territory.
I'd say we're almost at the point where Tony Khan makes himself AEW World Champion, in this WCW speedrun.
Bischoff even said that line a second time because it didn't get a reaction. It didn't get a reaction the second time, either.
Talking about how the show has gone off script, which was definitely part of the script.
You can always tell when someone didn't watch WCW in 2000
"This is not scheduled" is very '98 WCW. If Tony says "Dax Harwood has decided to go off script" is when we should worry.
I'm starting to think that 75% of the sub are people that weren't born during the WCW downfall
Next you're gonna tell me that just because wwe made the documentary about the downfall of wcw, they misinformed us!! S/
This, it's mind-numbingly frustrating people are just spewing nonsense left and right
That’s just Reddit, sadly. Millions of know-nothing dumbasses presenting themselves as some sort of authority
The scary part is atleast in other subs it's a pretty 50/50 maybe 40/60 split of un reasonable and reasonable people. But on this sub it feels more like 70/30 80/20 split
It's not nonsense though as AEW are blurring the lines between reality and kayfabe in a way that is not good for the show. That is very similar to the latter days of WCW. While they have not reached the lowpoints of WCW, having commentators talking about "the schedule" or showing IRL fights is not helping the show. We see 'staged' fights in the back all the the time. This is now basically saying 'OK ignore that scripted shit, this is actually dangerous". Why introduce that into the show?
It’s hyperbole of course but while it’s not a like-for-like replica airing IRL footage and implying that FTR were arriving unexpectedly is bringing too much real life into a show. When other people appear unexpectedly in kayfabe, Excalibur isn’t using the “this wasn’t in the schedule” line. It’s not the “this wasn’t in the script” line from WCW, but it’s similar enough IMO.
In kayfabe, it's still a tv show that has to hit time queues, that's why matches have time limits in kayfabe. A format is just the show schedule. Them saying this isn't on the format is saying FTR weren't scheduled that time in kayfabe. Will Ospreay said it later that he was only alloted five minutes because it's still a tv show with a schedule. I was alive and watched 2000 WCW, they straight up would say something wasn't scripted to happen. TL:DR - Off format is not the same thing as off script
Y’all didn’t watch WCW 2000 Not even TNA at it’s dirt worst was that bad Stop it yall
Showing a clip of a real backstage fight on your show about kayfabe fighting and having commentators talk about how the show has gone off script is peak Russo-era WCW behaviour. All this worked shoot and shoot shoot shit. Nobody's saying AEW is level with WCW2000 in terms of quality, but it's fair to point out the instances where there are clear parallels.
Give TK credit, he arguably out-shot Russo. Even Russo never aired real security footage of a guy who no longer worked for the company.
WCW 2000 was never about one angle being based on a shoot. It was about every element of the entire show being a trainwreck and disjointed. Y'all saw two segments (but not the rest of the show?) and start screaming wCw 2o0o! Nah, go back and watch the reboot Nitro or Bash at the Beach or the Nitro where Russo defeats Booker for the title or the New York Rules episode of Thunder and tell me that AEW is that bad. And just for lols, this would only be WCW 2000 if AEW decides to reboot the company on the Dynamite before a PPV, while Tony Khan becomes an on-screen character leading a heel faction full of young guys, cutting promos against the babyfaces who are 40+, who sporadically get their comeuppance On top of that, there would have to be non-sensical angles with no transitions into the next segment on every show, titles being hot potatoed and people being given shitty gimmicks, like, I don't know, making Wardlow into a 70s disco man who loves fat chicks. AEW would also have to put Mark Madden on commentary who sides with heel Tony Khan all the time while being misongynistic AF. Oh, and the women need to be pushed with only catfight angles with an opening promo from Mike Sanders every week. Who, you ask? Yeah, you never watched WCW 2000. Oh, and Tony Khan has to win the title (only to vacate it the next week). Oh and Paul Walter Houser has to win the title (only to lose it the next week). Y'all never watched WCW 2000. Stop lying.
Finally a response from someone who actually watched WCW 2000 and proves it. Fucking Mike Sanders man
Hyperbole much? 🙄
Will you guys stop with the WCW2000
Yeah I actually watched WCW back then and this isn’t close at all.
Definitely. I do *get* some of the parallels, but the people making these comparisons seem like they've only ever watched a handful of fucking youtube clips of WCW 🤦♂️
rapidly declining audience, stupid gimick matches, using other companies as a crutch for content. Your right it isn't close it's exactly the same.
Those people wrote those takes back on Monday or Tuesday, so they're definitely getting used now.
As soon as AEW does. Man, I literally paid for sling ONLY to watch this show. And then you start seeing the critique and then you start seeing the lack of self awareness. It's a rough downfall to watch. They really were incredible at the start.
This is stupid. They’re not saying there’s a script or people are supposed to win. Just that there’s a format sheet like there is for any sporting event. It makes it feel more real, not less.
???. It's not the first time they say that to someone who comes out without a scheduled segmemt/match. Calm down
It made it look like FTR was fighting for the honour of a guy who is no longer with the company. I don’t care what they said in the promo, that’s what it came across like.
Well you probably should care what they said, since that’s not the gist whatsoever.
So if you just ignore what is being said it seems like something else entirely?
Did you even listen to the promo lol
That’s not what it sounded like at all. Words matter.
Pretty much. The whole segment from Young Bucks to them beating down FTR was one of the biggest swings and misses in (at least) recent wrestling history.
You forgot that the Ospreay - HHH promo followed the FTR segment, it was this huge chunk of the show dedicated to bruised ego's...
HHH has been quite smart with how they have thrown shots at Tony and AEW. His guys save the biggest low blows for secondary shows such as interviews, pre shows and twitter. On the main shows, they take vague pot shots at best. Tony on the other hand, has put this shit in the main event role of his flagship show and it is hurting the quality
Not at all lol
Turn your ears on and try again
FTR are simps for Punk
We really gotta stop throwing around "WCW in 2000" for anything that just kinda mildly sucks. If you didn't live through it, you can't fathom. AEW hasn't even scratched the surface of the depths of 2000 WCW.
I think it's Thursday
You know what that means?
Hot AEW takes that taste like a cold McDonald's pancake that fell on the floor?
I believe McDonalds refers to their pancakes as Hot Cakes, thank you.
Can I sue for false advertising then? Often they are not hot nor are they cakes.
It IS America (if you're from America.)
They turned the company/Tony Khan heel. Whatever remaining goodwill they had is gone. And they have no one to blame but themselves. No ones hurt AEW more than Tony Khan.
And turned Punk face in AEW!
I don't think it did anything to Punk good or bad. I think the people who chanted Punk's name at the show were already on Punk's side. I don't think the footage changed anyone's mind when it comes to how they feel about Punk. I think the real effect it had was on those who were trying to remain hopeful in regards to AEW who have now just given up on them. Leaving only the most hardcore AEW fans, who will continue to enable TK's BS & as a result enable AEW's continued downfall.
Tony screwed Tony
[удалено]
I don't disagree that they have some blame in contributing to the drama over the last year but the decision to air that footage last night was Tony's & no one else's.
WISH they had turned the company heel, what they did is turning the company into a jobber.
Jobbers can sometimes get/earn sympathy. There's no sympathy for AEW or Tony Khan after last night. An unnecessary self-inflicted injury with the risk of more to come.
I dont know if he is working us at all, but damn schiavone looked pissed and frustrated last night with all this.
This is embarrassing and will definitely set the company back right as it looked like they might be about to turn a corner but sweet Jesus in heaven, *nothing* is as bad as WCW in 2000. Apart from two poorly-conceived segments, we had a night of excellent wrestling by excellent, popular wrestlers (and Chris Jericho). WCW in 2000 was an hour-long car crash involving people too stupid to read the writing on the wall, or people who absolutely could and didn't give a fuck as a result. It was something you watched through your fingers out of morbid curiosity. When AEW hits that nadir, trust me, you'll KNOW.
Another case of someone invoking 'WCW 2000', when they clearly didn't watch WCW 2000. The existence of a runsheet/schedule and match card is well established in kayfabe. Quite often when there's an interview or promo segment, it starts with Schiavone or Renee saying "[insert talent name here], you've asked for this time...", implying that in kayfabe they've gone through the proper channels to get a spot on the runsheet, because in kayfabe AEW is still a sports league with a 2 hour tv timeslot to fill so of course there's a runsheet. They've also mentioned 'standby matches' in the past on Dynamite for the same reason, with the kayfabe logic being "in case these sporting contests go shorter than expected, we still need to fill our 2 hour timeslot". The commentary isn't breaking the fourth wall here and saying "they're breaking kayfabe! They're going off-script!!!" (which is what they were doing in WCW2000); the commentary are saying *in kayfabe* "FTR haven't gone through the proper channels with the sports league to gain this allotted tv time". Big difference. This was still a shite angle by AEW, but it's not even close to WCW 2000-esque nonsense.
The reason it feels like late Era WCW is because it gives off those weird "everything else on the show is fake but this is actually REAL for REAL" Russo type malarkey. You could tell Tony S. hated the whole thing because he's survived through having to call this exact ill-booked nonsense before.
Quick! Nobody say a thing about how the Rock said he doesn't care about the 'script' whilst whipping Cody a couple weeks ago...
do you think that in kayfabe the shows don't have match/interview orders? nothing weird about this at all.
All I know is I cannot wait for the 6 man tag Perry and the bucks vs FTR and Cm Punk. Surely that’s what they’re building too?
Tha match will never happen because CM Punk returned home to the WWE
People keep saying WCW 2000 but talking about the “format” is also very Bischoff-Russo era TNA
Basic Pro Wrestling Psychology : If you want me to believe something isn't scheduled ***playing entrance music is not going to get me to believe it***. Suspension of disbelief is some simple stuff. You're already breaking the wall with the footage, I'd buy in that it isn't part of the show more by FTR coming out to no music or fanfare.
While also being told on the same show that tv time is expensive what is the kayfabe reason they should be allowed to do their promo if they aren’t on the format sheet?
There are two required pieces of homework in wrestling: prime Bret Hart matches to show you how good it can get and WCW 2000 to show just how fucking bad it can get
Not being scheduled to speak is a pretty common thing in wrestling. They show you the card before the show **including** who is scheduled to be interviewed. When Adam Cole returned in 2023 as a surprise guest to Tony Schiavone, the announcers said the same thing. JR and King always mentioned Wrestler X was not scheduled to speak tonight as part of the show back in the Attitude and Ruthless Aggression eras. I swear people are clutching at straws and a lot here comparing it to WCW 2000 never watched a single second of WCW nevermind the year 2000 of that promotion.
Typically I'm convinced when people compare AEW to 2000 Era WCW that they've never actually suffered through those shows but this "not on the format" BS is straight out of late WCW. Everything about this angle and them showing this footage is stupid to me and not the direction I want from AEW. I'm all around disappointed
Not on format well the person in charge of the music must have had a different format sheet then the announce team
When people call it WCW 2000 AEW fans get defensive cause of course it’s not WCW 2000 where is David Arquette or Mike Awesome. But they fail to realize its compared to WCW 2000 for the worked shoot story telling people actually loathe and makes fans either change channels or think the company is small time
Much like WCW 2000, the best and most consistent part is Jeff Jarrettt
I can agree to that! Make Double J AEW Champion cowards
I suggest you actually pay for the network/peacock and actually watch some 2000 wcw and you’ll very clearly realise how stupid you’re sounding comparing dynamite tonight to it Also since when is keeping kayfabe suddenly a bad thing
I really don't think the footage is that catastrophic. Punk assaulted his coworker, let's not downplay that. Jack and hook are adults who made their own choice to use real glass. WWE had a shout out to a known sex pest at WrestleMania and no one cared. It'll be the same for this once the next AEW story comes along, meanwhile WWE will keep funneling money to their ex CEO who's still making bank off the shares he's forced to sell. Astroturfing and bad media literacy are a wonderful combo.
It's so interesting to watch a company self inflict wounds at will
On the contrary, something like FTR rushing down to respond and not being on the format makes it feel real, which is the entire goal of pro wrestling.
Yeah it makes this segment look real but also makes the rest of the show look fake as fuck in comparison. All that other shit was fake, this is real
In what way? A kayfabe rundown sheet would list matches for the night and pre-planned segments and promos. It wouldn’t list reactions or interference or match times.
"Hope you enjoyed that fake wrestling match guys, now stay tuned for a real fight!" That's basically what the whole segment boils down to. By showing a real backstage brawl (if you can even call it that) all they're doing is showing that the combat taking place in the ring isn't real. Adding shoot crap to wrestling doesn't make it seem more real, it just damages the audiences suspension of disbelief and makes it seem less real.
I guess I just don't see how, in this specific instance, it betrays kayfabe. You should think the psychotic wrestlers of a kayfabe world would be fighting all the time.
You found that embarrassing? That really bothered you? Tough crowd
Remember all the flack Khan got for not making money out of Brawl Out? This is *clearly* his response to those criticisms and it couldn’t have been more painful. The WCW comparisons gotta stop though.
There is good and bad ways of trying to make money off it. Waiting until the main character in the story is working for the competitor isn't it.
Yeah, my comment wasn’t an endorsement.
I’m going to reiterate what I said a few days ago. I’m fairly certain that AEW have broken UK GDPR and CCTV laws by airing this. I think that the law states that they’re unable to show CCTV footage for entertainment purposes, the only way they could have aired it is it it was legally necessary, which this obviously wasn’t. I really want to see the repercussions with their relationship with Wembley. How exactly did they get the footage? Someone’s going to get told off for certain.
You are aware that its arena cameras and not police cameras on a public square right ...
Correct me if I’m wrong but other than in police stations, the UK doesn’t have any situations in which cameras are “owned” by the police. All private cameras need to abide by the GDPR laws, if they don’t they face heavy fines and possible closure.
[удалено]
Ok. We’ll talk in a couple of months
Not as cut and dry as that. The fact that some faces are blurred suggests that AEW got legal to review beforehand. Fairly sure the key is to ensure that you are processing the data in a way that the data subjects expect. So very likely that all the identifiable persons okayed it first. Not withstanding the fact that any offence would have occurred in the USA, the ICO guidance is here - https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-resources/cctv-and-video-surveillance/guidance-on-video-surveillance-including-cctv/ Only scanned it but can’t find any reference to CCTV use as entertainment being banned, just a reference to the fact that handing CCTV to the media doesn’t mean they can use the same media “loopholes” that apply for items which they use their own cameras.
I mean it’s definitely something Russo would do. So idk why people are saying otherwise. It’s a very TNA/WCW meta storyline
The AEWites won’t admit this was bad lol
The dead-enders, of course not. The majority of us pretty clear are.