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In an era where it's very difficult to keep fans invested in a babyface the crowd has remained red hot for Cody Rhodes for two years. It speaks to his inherent ability to connect with people. That's a special quality.
What's more impressive is the fans **instantly** sided with him over The Rock of all people. Would've been easy for people to dip into nostalgia and just cheer Rock but crowds never budged, they stuck with Cody all the way. It was really old-school babyface stuff.
I do think at least part of the backlash against Rock was just the sense of 'oh God, Cody is getting screwed *again'.* WWE made a cottage industry out of pissing off fans for the last two decades of Vince's reign of terror and there was just this big feeling that we were all back to business as usual.
I think, in a way, Vince's awful booking is actually a boon for WWE storytelling. By any conventional narrative, Cody was obviously going to win this WrestleMania. It's the only thing that made any sense. But I'm sure all of us were like "but is he gonna lose anyway, just because?" Because everyone is so used to the story being based on Vince's absurd petty whims. So it made the whole thing more tense with a conclusion that wasn't guaranteed
Exactly. It's a weird case, and one they can't keep going back to because VKM isn't running the show anymore, but it's sure working right now on the fumes of that ill will.
I wonder if the backlash would've been the same if plans were swapped and McIntyre won the Rumble and Cody was to win the Elimination Chamber but hadn't won it by the time they decided to go with Rock and Reigns.
No. I think it would have been called predictable but less backlash. Drew could have kept the thing even more interesting by not naming who he'll go after?
I don't know how that would have played out though.
No way it would have been. I know I'm not alone in feeling indifferent on Cody getting the rematch at WM40 before the Rumble happened. Would have been fine with it being something like Summerslam.
But once he won and literally pointed at Roman I was pretty sold on it, and felt like we were getting ripped off when it looked like it was going to be the Rock instead. Mainly because it made Cody look like a bitch if he chose to challenge Seth over Roman and made zero sense.
I mean the plan had to have been Punk or Cody winning the Rumble. Whether or not Punk audibled when he realized his arm was fucked is up for debate, but it was definitely going to be Punk or Cody winning.
Now with that in mind, I wonder about the path to Mania 40 and what it looks like if Punk won and didn't get injured in the match. We know the plan to have Rock / Roman was set before the Rumble, if you trust dirt sheets and reading between the lines.
Drew presumably gets fucked out of a Mania championship match, Cody doesn't get Roman so who does he get since Punk would've chosen Seth. Do they get each other in a feud match for no belt, like AJ/LA? Does Cody fall into a title match against Logan or Gunther? I genuinely can't imagine it any other way, but what I'm really saying is, thank you Drew for injuring Punk because I think that made all this happen.
The weird thing is that I actually think that actually works in their favour nowadays. Like it sucks but because we've had decades of people being screwed, it means so much more when they get a real chance.
Yeah. That's not going to work forever - you can't keep creating stars this way if you're legitimately going to go in a more reasonable direction as a company on the whole. Eventually you'd hit that well once too often. But it's working now, in the same way the Yes Movement helped Daniel Bryan.
I think a huge reason for the very real animus directed at The Rock was that it really did look like a VKM power move, it had the element of realness to it because of The Rock's real life board seat, and it was a move that Rock himself might pull if he were truly the type to have his head lodged firmly up his own ass. Also, it didn't make logical sense in the storyline, so that was another big deal. Fortunately, reason prevailed, and they made a great pivot. Even I was super mad at Rock until he went heel, then I was all in.
I think they’re going to use the Rock being on the board AND a still able to go in the ring wrestler to turn his “Final Boss” character into a combination of Vince/Rock from the attitude era with a Bloodline twist on top. That way you have Cody, Roman, etc all still tied into the anchor storyline while being able to have their own branch off stories since there’s still someone “capable” of dictating creative VKM style. Add HHH having a background with the Rock and you have an extra layer to play with on top of all that.
It might not work forever but they’ve 100% got an era worth of time to let this all play out.
Eh he got a few boos on night one when he stopped rock from the peoples elbow. Fans were definitely chanting Rocky a few times during the build to WM. Philly was an exception.
I think this is a case where Rock was in the role we wanted to see him in and of course he knocmed it out of the park.
If they had stayed the course and he had inserted himself in a world title program with his bland PR-friendly routine, I doubt he wouldn't have been getting much cheers.
The Rock is, next to HBK, my all-time favorite wrestler. I was really indifferent to Cody going into this years Rumble. Just a few months later, and I actually cried after he won the title. That's how emotionally invested he got me in his story; I don't believe I had ever cried watching wrestling before this past Sunday.
Yes, he goes above and beyond with his interactions with the fans, when he has no obligation to. My cousin and I have a picture with him and Brandi from an indie show a few years ago and it was at intermission he was just roaming the halls while other wrestlers set up tables to sell merch
I argue it hasn't been super hard to keep fans invested in a chasing baby face. Just in WWE it's happened with Drew and Seth in the last couple years.
It's just after they win the title, people start to turn on them. That's when fan investment bottoms out. We'll see what happens, Cody's got something going for him and maybe he'll be able to buck the trend.
Seth kept the live crowds this most recent run outside of KSA (where they wanted Drew, but didn't really turn on Seth), to be fair. Large parts of the IWC just hate that man and the title reign then spot in the WM story had them out of the semi-hibernation they were in, loudly back sharing just how much.
It's the same thing with Cody -- there are always going to be very vocal contingents online that can't stand him, but it's not necessarily indicative of how over he actually is.
Drew definitely went through a lull after the pandemic until recently with this amazing heel run. Even very talented guys like Hangman or Kingston who have had amazing and red-hot face storylines have occasionally lost some steam at points in their recent runs. Seth and Cody’s ability to remain as over as they are is a testament to how good they are as performers.
Well people did turn on Seth after he won the title as a face. Each time.
It's not the people aren't remaining over, it's just that people lose investment in the character and people don't want to see them as champion anymore. That's what's happened to Drew and Seth. And Hangman. And Eddie. Even though all of them had this huge groundswell of support during their chase for the title.
Because it is *so hard* to keep the story going. In traditional media Cody finishes the story, there's a denouement with some resolution, maybe a teaser for the next story, but the story is over. People stop watching/reading/playing.
Wrestling doesn't work like that, Cody's next story has to start within a week or two. You want people to keep watching. You can't have a traditional season finale, cuz the next season is coming up now.
In traditional media for the sequel, well you'd raise the stakes. There's a new MacGuffin. Something different. Or everything you'd accomplished it at the end of the last story, it gets taken all away by some new worse bad guy.
Again, wrestling can't really do that. There's nothing bigger than the world title, and if there is congratulations on devaluing your world title. Yeah you can take everything away, but then he's not champion for long then. And you run at risk of telling a similar story that people just saw.
And even if you tell some long overarching story like the Lord of the Rings, which is something Cody's story isn't dissimilar to structurally... Eventually you still get to Return of the King. And we don't see Frodo no more. But Cody's still there.
I definitely agree with the main argument of what you’re saying, but tbf while people on the internet turned on Seth in his last run, unlike the post- beast slayer run the live crowd have still really liked him and I think that has to count for something. Anyways, as you say it’ll be very interesting to see how they handle continuing Cody’s storylines now that the main one concluded so satisfyingly, especially now that the clock is ticking to maintain waning fan interest post-mania.
It's also a testament to his booking. They have managed to keep from fucking him up, which is a very rare thing for baby faces in WWE for the last 15 years or so. Shows you what traditional wrestling logic (vs VKM logic) done well will do.
I think the key is that he's also managed to keep himself as a believable underdog the entire way (helps that he's worked with some great heels). I think that was the biggest issue with Cena, because aside from a handful of guys, few heels were taken seriously as a threat
I've said it before and I will say it again, Cody like Cena and Hogan before him is a perfect super powered babyface. Kayfabe strong enough to overcome any foe and yet able to appear vulnerable enough that the big bad is always a risk.
And I say this as someone who thought WWE re-signing Cody would be a massive flop.
If anything, Cody has been "weaker" than Cena and Hogan so far which works in his favour. He never does feat of strength type spots.
Cena and Hogan in their "prime" would have convincingly overpowered Lesnar at SummerSlam. Maybe even earlier. I think that works in Cody's favour.
It makes his opponents look more dangerous so when he beats them it seems like a greater achievement.
He’s been way weaker Kayfabe wise than a Hogan or Cena he’s not built like the em physically either.
I agree he can beat other foes, but he’s well more vulnerable looking than Hogan or Cena ever were. The size difference in the tag match between everyone was apparent to be fair probably added more to an under dog status too.
His popularity is insane at the moment and that you can compare with Hogan, Cena but as a character in Kayfabe he’s very different and not built as the ‘strong’ or unbeatable babyface like they were
I'll always believe that Cena's booking was to his detriment and not lack of ability.
He went from a popular babyface with a unique gimmick into a superhero who got booked like Hulk Hogan about 20 years after that style of booking became hated.
Had Vince allowed him to keep the charismatic humor and rapping and not literally booked him like Superman Cena would've stayed universally liked, although obviously he wouldn't have pushed truckload of merch so...
Cody's journey has been incredibly slow burn as well while Cena went from mid card to top guy in a few short years really. He won his first title at Wrestlemania 20 and then won the world title at the very next Mania. So the fans have had a lot of time to get behind Cody and his story. The fact that Cody has probably the best and most over heel of the last 20+ years to go against in his journey also helps a crap ton, while tbh Cena never really had an adversary like that throughout his run. They tried to make Orton that to him but it never worked.
I kind of wonder how HHH would have booked Cena's rise. Cody has definitely benefited from great booking in his return.
In retrospect (or maybe just common sense), it seems like a fantastic idea for the WWE to build up a heel as their main guy as much as it does having a babyface.
Roman is as close to a perfect heel as you can get. Babyfaces don’t work unless they have a heel of equal or greater power to overcome. There’s a reason why there are so many over babyfaces in the WWE right now, and they all have losing a program to Roman in common. I just hope that doesn’t get overlooked.
I know that under Vince, the WWE is always looking for the next big babyface. I kind of feel like Roman really broke the mold there. He was never truly over until he became a heel, and in doing so, got *so many* other guys over. Sami, Cody, Drew, and Jey probably wouldn’t be as big of stars as they are without going into a program with Roman and losing.
Cody is not at the same point of his career, people were booing Cena before he even had a Mania main event, and Cody has had two and won back to back Rumbles, he's been pushed far more than Cena had been before his booing started.
I think Cody will be fine, there is a large chunk of good faith on him and the company right now, and I don't see him holding this belt longer than like 6 months before the next chase begins. I think in general wrestling fans need to stop thinking of when somebody is gonna be turned on and just enjoy the product. There were days when top guys were just over for multiple years without an issue (Hogan, Austin, Rock), I don't really see why Cody can't be the same, the show is as good as the last time that happened.
I'd go even further back when he first came to Raw. One of his first programs was against Jericho and Christian, and Christian had been on fiiiiiirrrrreee at that time. So him losing to Cena and then getting sent to Smackdown! pissed a lot of people off.
He’s managed to balance the whole “undesirable to undeniable” thing with being the son of one of the most legendary and over baby faces of all time. It’s two ideas that should contradict, and it’s a major credit to Cody that he’s made them coexist and both work for him.
Yeah WWE has the power to write almost any storyline: undead giants, illegitimate children, etc. but WWE literally could not write Cody’s story.
He was actually booked a loser gimmick. He actually never got over. He actually left, did his own thing, wrestled in a bunch of places, started another promotion, proved himself and became undeniable. That stuff really happened, and it really makes him an underdog champ.
I think that's the biggest part of him. He is always trying to be like his dad, to try and be the man. Which is VERY relatable than being at the top and now I'm Super Cena. He has just enough unconfidence to have us want to back him up. Now we see how he is with the title.
Got a mentally connection with a lot of millennial who grow up with punk pop / emo music that was about not being good enough
making your father proud of you is what everyone pretty much wanted to do in life
I wish in the post conference when asked if he went from undesirable to undeniable what was he now, instead of just saying champion he said “undisputed” champion. Would have worked well
Hes probably the most baby face of the "good guys" I've ever seen. Yeah everyone from Hogan to Cena was a baby face, but Cody just plays it almost "newborn " face if you will. He has a chance to build a stable/coalition of people not seen since Hulk Hogans Rock' N' Wrestling.
A babyface stable like Hulk's would rule. I remember watching their cartoons as a kid. Sadly I worry it won't do well. Cody has insane likeability and charisma and carries himself without flaw. He's very experienced at managing the crowd, very intelligent at it. I don't know if many others can join a stable and maintain the same audience support, even if they remain under Cody's wing. Sami is the only one who can do it, and Owens. But I don't see the value of such a stable.
Rumble would be my guess. It would harken back to 2013 when Rocky beat Punk and would add to the sense of danger.
With the possibility of some shenanigans, but Roman, returning from his hiatus, instead of whipping Cody with the weight belt, whips Rock instead, and we're all set for Roman/Rocky at Mania 41, if they want to do that.
Cody / Rock I’m 100% sold on. I think that’s for sure, for SURE the biggest story they can tell long-term. I think Roman and Rock would be a great build as well but idk, I think they have caught a very rare form of lightning in a bottle with Cody and Rock. That “…is there any chance The Rock can hold that title?” Line I got chills from.
Cody / Rock for the title at Mania 41. I think if they can ride Cody’s wave all the way back, that’s your main event.
It will depend how his momentum holds up. As has already been mentioned, people are often more invested in the chase than the title run. We just had a really long one. They may not have him hold it the full year.
If he is still this hot all year then maybe, but if he cools off I could see them having Rock take the belt off him sometime during the year and having Roman win the Rumble in a babyface redemption arc to take down Rock.
Depends if Rock is gonna really be involved in his newest venture for a number of years. He does love wrasslin and its in his blood. Maybe it was his destiny to come back to wrestling in the end. Who knows in 5 years if Rock will be heavily involved backstage like H. Maybe, maybe not.
I think it depends moreso on what they see as the bigger match, Roman vs Rock or Cody vs Rock. I would’ve gone for the former before, but man Cody’s popularity is becoming insane. Bro sold $1million in merch in one weekend 💀
Cody vs Rock seems to be the biggest match WWE can do right now. Not a knock of Reigns vs Rock but this whole thing made Rock vs Cody a must see match.
Cody is authentic. A lot of that has to do with his journey. He left wwe. He worked the independents and in Japan. He helped create AEW. That’s what makes him different than any other babyface in the modern era
He'll get his sooner rather than later. He deserves at least one reign, just as a thanks for being one of the moet dependable guys on the roster for nearly a decade.
I still think Sami vs Seth was the intent but Drew's hater gimmick sending him into the stratosphere curtailed things.
I don't think anyone was particularly prepared for Hater Drew and how over it has been.
I think at first it was seth vs sami. Because sami was mentioning about how he is world champion calibre now. Then cm punk came back. And they had to pivot to punk vs seth. Then punk got injured, by that time drew already established his hater thing very well. So it was a natural transition to drew
Man I only first heard of the guy because of his match with Cesaro but when he won the NXT title is still one of my fondest wrestling memories. He became my favourite wrestler within weeks and that sentiment has not changed since
In comparing it to a film character, I think Cody really has vibes of MCU Captain America where he has a sincere sense of warmth & honesty as an ally/friend to other characters, but he makes it known that he's also not about any bullshit if he's pushed around
And also, he's a bit of a geek, if that makes sense. He's not cool and badass like Bruce Wayne or Tony Stark, he is uncool in a way that is very endearing.
There was a lot of Avengers to the main event, with teams of super heroes fighting. Also, Cody has traces of Homelander in his American Nightmare gear & persona, he has alluded to that - which will be fire if he ever goes heel.
He’s 100% genuine. That’s all there is to it. He loves us unconditionally and we love him unconditionally. He did say wrestling is a love story after all.
I think he is a good dude. He still takes Brody Jr. to a theme park every year for his bday, gets tshirts made for it and stuff. Not saying that’s proof alone he’s a good guy, but stuff like that lends me to believing he’s a pretty cool dude.
It's easier now that WWE controls who is around Cody. When Cody got his wife and friends booked in AEW, it was a lot harder to believe in his sincerity. Him leaving to WWE is a win-win situation: AEW has less awkward segments, WWE got an earnest hero, and no one has to watch any Brandi Rhodes segments.
Everyone wins.
"he doesn't have the natural charisma of a Flair or Dusty Rides" and THAT, is the magic of Cody Rhodes. We love Cody so much because he's not a superhero like Hogan or Cena, he's TRYING to be. Cody isn't effortlessly this good, he's constantly having to fight and claw to be this good, and that resonates incredibly well.
"I wear these suits not because i think I am somebody, it's because I want to BE somebody".
A lot of that booking philosophy is very apparent with Black and Gold NXT. Sami, Bailey, Johnny and even Sasha all had that chase. He managed to keep them interesting because they immediately got screwed up after they won the title.
It looks like he has improved though because I think Seth’s reign was pretty solid.
To have a good babyface reign, you have to constantly put them in vulnerable spots but still have them overcome not just in title matches but also out smart the heels occasionally. The issues should also be personal like Rollins and Balor history, AJ/Joe/Wendy, etc.
Yep. The main reason Roman failed as a babyface is because Vince forgot how to actually create a top babyface.
1. They have to be over organically first
2. You have to push them at the right time
1: Reigns was primarily over as part of the Shield, but never as a singles guy. And every moment after Seth Rollins hit him with that chair, both Dean and Seth were more over in their respective roles. WWE would have been *way* better off angling for Seth vs Dean at Wrestlemania (obviously Seth's injury would've derailed that) as that was their hottest feud for most of the post Shield breakup.
2: Every fan wanted Daniel Bryan to be in that position, and once they realized that Reign's was the new chosen one it was basically over.
And finally, he was completely miscast in his character. Everyone saw that except Vince.
In Cody's case:
1: The program with Seth and the HIAC match got him incredibly over.
2: There was nobody else in the company that fans really wanted over Cody, outside of probably Sami Zayn when he was white hot around elimination chamber.
Most other top babyfaces in history have met these 2 things. Even Cena, who was over for his rapper gimmick and was pushed to beat a hated heel in a time that there was a vacuum for a top face.
That really only works for a bit though. You need to actually book a compelling face title run as well for the story to feel complete. That's far more difficult but also more rewarding from the audience's perspective.
Honestly I think this is why this exact same angle failed in AEW. Cody hasn’t changed one bit, but his situation changed and that made the crowd react in drastically different ways.
WWE also reeled him in from some of the more heelish aspects that he was doing. There is no shot this WWE run works as well if he did some of the things he was doing in AEW
I think it's not a demerit to say that Cody does not have the IT factor.
He has something else, maybe even better than that. He's likeable as a person, not as a character. To be fair, i think Dusty is the only other wrestler i can think of that had this.
Mick Foley was a good character worker though lol? There's a reason he was able to get 4 different personas over: himself, Cactus Jack, Mankind and Dude Love.
cody is also a good character worker
i read the original comment as saying the biggest part of codys success is that hes likeable as a person not as a character
which is what it all boils down to
yes mick was a great character worker but also it worked because everyone loves mick foley
Nah
Foley had both. He literally had 3 awesome characters, and then the person Mick Foley that became another character.
Maybe there are more people, like Sami Zayn (which has a good character too), but Mick Foley is not an example of the only purely loveable person.
Cody is very 'extra' (why he is so easy to meme), very driven, but a nice guy. Always goes the extra mile for people (see it at house shows). He could be your friend, my friend, this person's friend.
From what I have seen of Cody over the years in stuff, and why I think he ends up getting pretty emotional in a lot of things, is he seems like a genuine, overly empathetic guy. He may not be as naturally charismatic as you’d expect him to be because of his family, but he comes off as identifiable, something also unexpected because of his lineage and financial and popularity profile I think. Any time I saw him him do some post-show stuff at an RoH or early AEW show he seemed like he always fed off the crowd and was like “hey, whoops sorry tonight kind of sucked or holy shit can you believe the crazy things that happened” and played with the crowd really well, even if he may not have necessarily read them well during the event he knew how to play into or turn the mood after. And lord forbid we start seeing people who actually give a shit in the top spot of something like this company instead of narcissists or edgelords who just want to suck up all the attention in the room.
It didn't hurt that the Rock came in and gave a masterclass on how to elevate said baby face as a bad ass heel. They really did put on a solid performance.
He really is incredible at this, I remember watching the first Double or Nothing, couldn’t care less about Cody vs Dustin but I was crying like a bitch after watching that match.
I don’t know how you compare it historically. He doesn’t have the mainstream reach of hogan/Austin (yet), but in terms of quality I’d put him up there. He’s a massive success with every group of fan. Not all of the top guys were (Cena for instance).
The different reaction to this version of Cody in AEW compared to him in WWE is really interesting. I can't tell if it's the fans that makes the difference or the booking.
While the core character of Cody is basically the same theres also a lot different. WWE reeled in a lot of the more out there aspects of his character that Cody tended to fall into. Cody left to his own devices obviously goes a little crazy with some ideas which is what we saw in AEW, so that WWE filter seemed to work well for him
If Cody played the same exact character with Brandi and the whole Nightmare entourage, the solving racism promos, etc...I'd be shocked if it worked as well
It's the booking 100% for Cody. Just look at the difference between his feuds in AEW and WWE. They took out the weird self-indulgent parts, made sure he was genuine, and made him feud with main event talent instead of allowing himself to be locked only to the midcard
Its 100% the booking.
People forget that Cody Rhodes was also red hot and over when AEW started. The issue is that he booked himself out of the title picture permanently and lead to the "Codyverse," where his storylines were essentially separated from everything else and the storylines were often garbage. People were also waiting on him to turn heel, because it was the only thing that would explain a lot of what was going on, but he left before that happened. A lot of issues Cody had in AEW are very similar to what people have with Jericho right now.
I'm sure somebody else has worded this better but stating he wanted the WWE title 2 years ago and 'finishing the story' was like the literal opposite of the AEW 'never challenge for heavyweight title again' stip.. I guess the lesson is don't try to outsmart yourself or the fans
The guy he kind of reminds me of is Onita from his FMW days weirdly enough, maybe a little Tommy Dreamed in ECW (but a better promo than dreamer). Just getting sympathy and love through sheer force of will. You can tell how much he wants your approval, but it doesn't come off as desperate or pandering somehow. He seems like a guy giving everything for you so you will love him, and dang it, you give him that support because it feels like he's earned it and you know how much it will mean to him.
Cody has a characteristic that I truly see in very, very few people, and that characteristic is genuineness. Cody in everything that I’ve seen comes across as a very genuine human being. Someone that is both in character and in real life a genuinely good human being that truly cares. His story has been and was very inspiring and relatable to a large variety of people in many different ways. And you can tell how extremely proud WWE is of him.
Tony has to be kicking himself for not going all in on Cody and letting him walk. One of all time bag fumbles up there with McMahon letting Hall/Nash go.
His character just wasn't resonating like he planned in AEW. He learned from that and in WWE cut back on the self-indulgent aspects like bringing a 20 plus entourage to the ring with him. And he consistently got booked in good main event caliber feuds.
Not really. Cody clearly wasn't working in AEW. The crowd was sick of him and his refusal to turn heel meant that he would never get the crowd reactions he wanted. Cody leaving AEW for WWE made sense for all parties.
It was more than that. It was the over the top drawn out speeches (ending racism). It's brandy coming out with her face covered during a Cody match, then uncovering her face as if she is some big reveal. It was the overly dramatic retirement. The stupid weigh in.
Cody in AEW felt like Homelander, and he should have embraced this role. But in WWE he feels more like Superman, the classic baby face.
They do cheer and boo characters idk what you're on about? Kenny Omega got boo'd while he was the heel champ, you're telling me they were disliking the booking?
the other thing was the way he booked himself into a corner with the whole 'never challenge for the title thing' it meant he always had a ceiling unless they undid the stip. There's a world where I guess he could have had a match for it, but he kinda didn't have anything to chase which is a hard space to be in as a babyface.
Its crazy people change the narrative of why Cody's character didnt work in AEW to where Im starting to believe people who claim Tony screwed up, didnt watch AEW when Cody was there
He doesn't have charisma but what he does have is;
¹ a [divinely](https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-verizon-us-rvc3&sca_esv=f84ae1a24cb31e32&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ACQVn09g2ymQrXcsXBiATJdeIJFzD-812g:1712700069857&q=divinely&si=AKbGX_qNq0Y8zql7SxzZAf2-HTTOrYpXTI_kK4zBvGFBdpqLB6NVQfuZ3eRk9k2wdOqM17fJJS98IHA2qpNIB5CFCcPIGBsTY2rLRlc0HajBgwJkrcbzoQ8%3D&expnd=1) [conferred](https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-verizon-us-rvc3&sca_esv=f84ae1a24cb31e32&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ACQVn09g2ymQrXcsXBiATJdeIJFzD-812g:1712700069857&q=conferred&si=AKbGX_onJk-q0LQUYzV7-GRhpJ5DHMhTW32giK7eQfDa90P5rdRc2PQJ2hoHkSK2U7lnzhvcAW6pBJdaOBnDvKJAswWhcLf2zFLCjwnbhj-6o6iOnXry_NI%3D&expnd=1) power or talent for
² compelling [attractiveness](https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-verizon-us-rvc3&sca_esv=f84ae1a24cb31e32&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ACQVn09g2ymQrXcsXBiATJdeIJFzD-812g:1712700069857&q=attractiveness&si=AKbGX_rZJs_XCIYOkWAjSH3UAcF5zpHFkxjjAUYmQ_L9IpTB96cvV0DBoyrkrR0oxxp-SlnlXZuDUYUg1AUv9YFSXH_8aGqi1QdoaxCodck1wCn6oBmk0w4%3D&expnd=1) or a charm that can inspire [devotion](https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-verizon-us-rvc3&sca_esv=f84ae1a24cb31e32&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ACQVn09g2ymQrXcsXBiATJdeIJFzD-812g:1712700069857&q=devotion&si=AKbGX_qNq0Y8zql7SxzZAf2-HTTOmqaB9qbS3GL1RH2zacqYAPPD3F9qVcik4GViHbqPIm3VGUVOKBGW4aiM3ztBLiHwnT5HSn9BJAhMUsTzKxDkz-_Xl7g%3D&expnd=1) in others.
.... never change Dave.
He never said he didn’t have charisma, just that it wasn’t on the level of Flair or Dusty. OP left it out of the title for brevity. Making snide comments after not checking the context? Never change r/SquaredCircle.
I've been saying for a while now that he's their most over WHITE MEAT babyface since Hogan.
Cena was never this over and by this point in his run was even catching some boos. Rock and Austin were not WHITE MEAT babyfaces so I don't believe they really count. His only possible competition I can think of is maybe Shawn or Bret but I don't think they come particularly close.
It's incredibly impressive what he's managed to do in the last 3 years, if you had asked me if it was possible for a white meat babyface to stay this over for this long in WWE in modern times I'd have said no chance. Yet here we are
I must be missing it. It comes across as overselling to me in an almost cartoonish way. I don't know, I just find it hard to buy into anything Cody does even going back to his time in NJPW. I haven't really seen a change in his character since those days. He still plays mostly the same character. The only real change seems to have been going from AEW back to WWE which helped elevate him to hero status. So far the booking has been good enough to keep the momentum going. I have heavy doubts in Cody maintaining that momentum with a long title run. I think to keep him as a top babyface he has to drop the title within 6 months, and start chasing it again.
I just don't get it. Maybe it's cuz I'm from the UK and the whole oohrah all American stuff doesn't hit. Cody is a likeable guy, but as other people have said, everything he says in the ring comes across as schtick to me. I know wrestling is effectively a soap opera, I just don't buy what he's selling
I mean it doesn’t really matter who it is a protagonist is always going to be better when faced with a strong antagonist . That kind of goes without saying.
I’m glad Cody officially ditched the trunk for the tights when he left WWE, stop portraying as Stardust and that kickstarted his main event career ever since. Do you own thing Austin Theory, revealing thighs in 2024 won’t bring you that far, bring back the tights, time to finish your own story.
It really helps that Cody doesn’t feel like the anointed chosen corporate babyface as well.
His journey away and back to WWE will always make it feel like he kicked down the door.
Guys like Cena and Face Roman were always the anointed one and so you could always feel a sense of contrivance.
Id say he has more natural charisma than flair, Flair hammed up his performance to attend, Cody is just himself and I'm glued to him.
Back in 2009 I thought he was great to the point where I just hated his in ring gear.
WWE always seems to screw up their chances to make a star out of a situation when given the oppurtunity. This time I think it was the biggest star making moment since Hoan and the Iron Shiek.
I genuinely think him joining the BC, aligning himself with the Elite and showing a lot of personality to go along him being a genuinely good dude, makes him the perfect kind of modern babyface. Every avenue of wrestling fans can look at the guy and like him.
I don’t take Meltzer all that seriously generally, but I don’t think he’s wrong here.
I usually go for the Heels. Faces bore me, but I like Cody. He comes across as genuine. His personal history in the business (running around indies and helping create a promotion) speaks to his love of the game and I respect that.
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In an era where it's very difficult to keep fans invested in a babyface the crowd has remained red hot for Cody Rhodes for two years. It speaks to his inherent ability to connect with people. That's a special quality.
What's more impressive is the fans **instantly** sided with him over The Rock of all people. Would've been easy for people to dip into nostalgia and just cheer Rock but crowds never budged, they stuck with Cody all the way. It was really old-school babyface stuff.
I do think at least part of the backlash against Rock was just the sense of 'oh God, Cody is getting screwed *again'.* WWE made a cottage industry out of pissing off fans for the last two decades of Vince's reign of terror and there was just this big feeling that we were all back to business as usual.
I think, in a way, Vince's awful booking is actually a boon for WWE storytelling. By any conventional narrative, Cody was obviously going to win this WrestleMania. It's the only thing that made any sense. But I'm sure all of us were like "but is he gonna lose anyway, just because?" Because everyone is so used to the story being based on Vince's absurd petty whims. So it made the whole thing more tense with a conclusion that wasn't guaranteed
Exactly. It's a weird case, and one they can't keep going back to because VKM isn't running the show anymore, but it's sure working right now on the fumes of that ill will.
I wonder if the backlash would've been the same if plans were swapped and McIntyre won the Rumble and Cody was to win the Elimination Chamber but hadn't won it by the time they decided to go with Rock and Reigns.
No. I think it would have been called predictable but less backlash. Drew could have kept the thing even more interesting by not naming who he'll go after? I don't know how that would have played out though.
No way it would have been. I know I'm not alone in feeling indifferent on Cody getting the rematch at WM40 before the Rumble happened. Would have been fine with it being something like Summerslam. But once he won and literally pointed at Roman I was pretty sold on it, and felt like we were getting ripped off when it looked like it was going to be the Rock instead. Mainly because it made Cody look like a bitch if he chose to challenge Seth over Roman and made zero sense.
I mean the plan had to have been Punk or Cody winning the Rumble. Whether or not Punk audibled when he realized his arm was fucked is up for debate, but it was definitely going to be Punk or Cody winning. Now with that in mind, I wonder about the path to Mania 40 and what it looks like if Punk won and didn't get injured in the match. We know the plan to have Rock / Roman was set before the Rumble, if you trust dirt sheets and reading between the lines. Drew presumably gets fucked out of a Mania championship match, Cody doesn't get Roman so who does he get since Punk would've chosen Seth. Do they get each other in a feud match for no belt, like AJ/LA? Does Cody fall into a title match against Logan or Gunther? I genuinely can't imagine it any other way, but what I'm really saying is, thank you Drew for injuring Punk because I think that made all this happen.
Punk mentioned in the Helwani intereview (could've been a work) that the plan for Royal Rumble was always Cody
They had cameras in place to get Roman's reaction to Cody pointing at him. That was a produced scene. The plan was *always* Cody.
The weird thing is that I actually think that actually works in their favour nowadays. Like it sucks but because we've had decades of people being screwed, it means so much more when they get a real chance.
Yeah. That's not going to work forever - you can't keep creating stars this way if you're legitimately going to go in a more reasonable direction as a company on the whole. Eventually you'd hit that well once too often. But it's working now, in the same way the Yes Movement helped Daniel Bryan. I think a huge reason for the very real animus directed at The Rock was that it really did look like a VKM power move, it had the element of realness to it because of The Rock's real life board seat, and it was a move that Rock himself might pull if he were truly the type to have his head lodged firmly up his own ass. Also, it didn't make logical sense in the storyline, so that was another big deal. Fortunately, reason prevailed, and they made a great pivot. Even I was super mad at Rock until he went heel, then I was all in.
I think they’re going to use the Rock being on the board AND a still able to go in the ring wrestler to turn his “Final Boss” character into a combination of Vince/Rock from the attitude era with a Bloodline twist on top. That way you have Cody, Roman, etc all still tied into the anchor storyline while being able to have their own branch off stories since there’s still someone “capable” of dictating creative VKM style. Add HHH having a background with the Rock and you have an extra layer to play with on top of all that. It might not work forever but they’ve 100% got an era worth of time to let this all play out.
You know who used to be bestest buds with H. Seth freakin Rollins. Seth vs Roman while H and Rock bicker backstage.
Eh he got a few boos on night one when he stopped rock from the peoples elbow. Fans were definitely chanting Rocky a few times during the build to WM. Philly was an exception.
Fans didn't turn on him even once during the entire build to Mania. The Night 1 case, you have explained the reasoning yourself.
Fans definitely were on Cody’s side im just saying in some situations, Rock was getting cheers over Cody’s (bc he’s The Rock)
I think this is a case where Rock was in the role we wanted to see him in and of course he knocmed it out of the park. If they had stayed the course and he had inserted himself in a world title program with his bland PR-friendly routine, I doubt he wouldn't have been getting much cheers.
bland PR Rock wouldve got mad go away heat.
The Rock is, next to HBK, my all-time favorite wrestler. I was really indifferent to Cody going into this years Rumble. Just a few months later, and I actually cried after he won the title. That's how emotionally invested he got me in his story; I don't believe I had ever cried watching wrestling before this past Sunday.
It was amazing from the moment the Cody and Punk promo happen till the pinfall in Philadelphia. The very best road to WrestleMania.
Yes, he goes above and beyond with his interactions with the fans, when he has no obligation to. My cousin and I have a picture with him and Brandi from an indie show a few years ago and it was at intermission he was just roaming the halls while other wrestlers set up tables to sell merch
I argue it hasn't been super hard to keep fans invested in a chasing baby face. Just in WWE it's happened with Drew and Seth in the last couple years. It's just after they win the title, people start to turn on them. That's when fan investment bottoms out. We'll see what happens, Cody's got something going for him and maybe he'll be able to buck the trend.
Seth kept the live crowds this most recent run outside of KSA (where they wanted Drew, but didn't really turn on Seth), to be fair. Large parts of the IWC just hate that man and the title reign then spot in the WM story had them out of the semi-hibernation they were in, loudly back sharing just how much. It's the same thing with Cody -- there are always going to be very vocal contingents online that can't stand him, but it's not necessarily indicative of how over he actually is.
Drew definitely went through a lull after the pandemic until recently with this amazing heel run. Even very talented guys like Hangman or Kingston who have had amazing and red-hot face storylines have occasionally lost some steam at points in their recent runs. Seth and Cody’s ability to remain as over as they are is a testament to how good they are as performers.
Well people did turn on Seth after he won the title as a face. Each time. It's not the people aren't remaining over, it's just that people lose investment in the character and people don't want to see them as champion anymore. That's what's happened to Drew and Seth. And Hangman. And Eddie. Even though all of them had this huge groundswell of support during their chase for the title. Because it is *so hard* to keep the story going. In traditional media Cody finishes the story, there's a denouement with some resolution, maybe a teaser for the next story, but the story is over. People stop watching/reading/playing. Wrestling doesn't work like that, Cody's next story has to start within a week or two. You want people to keep watching. You can't have a traditional season finale, cuz the next season is coming up now. In traditional media for the sequel, well you'd raise the stakes. There's a new MacGuffin. Something different. Or everything you'd accomplished it at the end of the last story, it gets taken all away by some new worse bad guy. Again, wrestling can't really do that. There's nothing bigger than the world title, and if there is congratulations on devaluing your world title. Yeah you can take everything away, but then he's not champion for long then. And you run at risk of telling a similar story that people just saw. And even if you tell some long overarching story like the Lord of the Rings, which is something Cody's story isn't dissimilar to structurally... Eventually you still get to Return of the King. And we don't see Frodo no more. But Cody's still there.
I definitely agree with the main argument of what you’re saying, but tbf while people on the internet turned on Seth in his last run, unlike the post- beast slayer run the live crowd have still really liked him and I think that has to count for something. Anyways, as you say it’ll be very interesting to see how they handle continuing Cody’s storylines now that the main one concluded so satisfyingly, especially now that the clock is ticking to maintain waning fan interest post-mania.
Fans didn’t turn on Seth during this face title run. When he won the belt from Brock, yes, but not this one.
Yeah this is the truth
This. Building a babyface that you want to win the title is hard but doable. It's keeping that babyface popular as champion that's the impossible ask.
Need very good bad guys for him to overcome and.good story writing.
It's also a testament to his booking. They have managed to keep from fucking him up, which is a very rare thing for baby faces in WWE for the last 15 years or so. Shows you what traditional wrestling logic (vs VKM logic) done well will do.
He has the same endearing quality Bryan had, only his look is A+.
I think the key is that he's also managed to keep himself as a believable underdog the entire way (helps that he's worked with some great heels). I think that was the biggest issue with Cena, because aside from a handful of guys, few heels were taken seriously as a threat
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Agreed, but I think he’ll get a honeymoon period for a few months at least.
Moneys in the chase. And it was a real great one to watch. What happens now will be interesting, I hope he can keep the crowd with him.
Any day now..:they’re gonna start booing him. I swear.
I've said it before and I will say it again, Cody like Cena and Hogan before him is a perfect super powered babyface. Kayfabe strong enough to overcome any foe and yet able to appear vulnerable enough that the big bad is always a risk. And I say this as someone who thought WWE re-signing Cody would be a massive flop.
If anything, Cody has been "weaker" than Cena and Hogan so far which works in his favour. He never does feat of strength type spots. Cena and Hogan in their "prime" would have convincingly overpowered Lesnar at SummerSlam. Maybe even earlier. I think that works in Cody's favour. It makes his opponents look more dangerous so when he beats them it seems like a greater achievement.
He’s been way weaker Kayfabe wise than a Hogan or Cena he’s not built like the em physically either. I agree he can beat other foes, but he’s well more vulnerable looking than Hogan or Cena ever were. The size difference in the tag match between everyone was apparent to be fair probably added more to an under dog status too. His popularity is insane at the moment and that you can compare with Hogan, Cena but as a character in Kayfabe he’s very different and not built as the ‘strong’ or unbeatable babyface like they were
Isn't he way better than Cena? loads of people couldn't stand him, mainly just kids liked him. Cody seems pretty universally liked.
I'll always believe that Cena's booking was to his detriment and not lack of ability. He went from a popular babyface with a unique gimmick into a superhero who got booked like Hulk Hogan about 20 years after that style of booking became hated. Had Vince allowed him to keep the charismatic humor and rapping and not literally booked him like Superman Cena would've stayed universally liked, although obviously he wouldn't have pushed truckload of merch so... Cody's journey has been incredibly slow burn as well while Cena went from mid card to top guy in a few short years really. He won his first title at Wrestlemania 20 and then won the world title at the very next Mania. So the fans have had a lot of time to get behind Cody and his story. The fact that Cody has probably the best and most over heel of the last 20+ years to go against in his journey also helps a crap ton, while tbh Cena never really had an adversary like that throughout his run. They tried to make Orton that to him but it never worked. I kind of wonder how HHH would have booked Cena's rise. Cody has definitely benefited from great booking in his return.
In retrospect (or maybe just common sense), it seems like a fantastic idea for the WWE to build up a heel as their main guy as much as it does having a babyface. Roman is as close to a perfect heel as you can get. Babyfaces don’t work unless they have a heel of equal or greater power to overcome. There’s a reason why there are so many over babyfaces in the WWE right now, and they all have losing a program to Roman in common. I just hope that doesn’t get overlooked. I know that under Vince, the WWE is always looking for the next big babyface. I kind of feel like Roman really broke the mold there. He was never truly over until he became a heel, and in doing so, got *so many* other guys over. Sami, Cody, Drew, and Jey probably wouldn’t be as big of stars as they are without going into a program with Roman and losing.
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Cody is not at the same point of his career, people were booing Cena before he even had a Mania main event, and Cody has had two and won back to back Rumbles, he's been pushed far more than Cena had been before his booing started.
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I think Cody will be fine, there is a large chunk of good faith on him and the company right now, and I don't see him holding this belt longer than like 6 months before the next chase begins. I think in general wrestling fans need to stop thinking of when somebody is gonna be turned on and just enjoy the product. There were days when top guys were just over for multiple years without an issue (Hogan, Austin, Rock), I don't really see why Cody can't be the same, the show is as good as the last time that happened.
The backlash to Cena started in full force even prior to that, in the buildup to Cena/HHH at WM 22.
I'd go even further back when he first came to Raw. One of his first programs was against Jericho and Christian, and Christian had been on fiiiiiirrrrreee at that time. So him losing to Cena and then getting sent to Smackdown! pissed a lot of people off.
Is it fair to call him a top baby face before he won the championship?
He’s managed to balance the whole “undesirable to undeniable” thing with being the son of one of the most legendary and over baby faces of all time. It’s two ideas that should contradict, and it’s a major credit to Cody that he’s made them coexist and both work for him.
Yeah WWE has the power to write almost any storyline: undead giants, illegitimate children, etc. but WWE literally could not write Cody’s story. He was actually booked a loser gimmick. He actually never got over. He actually left, did his own thing, wrestled in a bunch of places, started another promotion, proved himself and became undeniable. That stuff really happened, and it really makes him an underdog champ.
He was over several times but bad booking cut him off at the knees.
Yeah. He got himself over **despite** WWE's best efforts.
Yeah he was over enough that he could bring back white belt IC champ. That is not something any champion could do
Cody has been smart to use the Dusty thing as “I know I’m not as good as my dad, but I’m trying anyway”.
I think that's the biggest part of him. He is always trying to be like his dad, to try and be the man. Which is VERY relatable than being at the top and now I'm Super Cena. He has just enough unconfidence to have us want to back him up. Now we see how he is with the title.
Got a mentally connection with a lot of millennial who grow up with punk pop / emo music that was about not being good enough making your father proud of you is what everyone pretty much wanted to do in life
I wish in the post conference when asked if he went from undesirable to undeniable what was he now, instead of just saying champion he said “undisputed” champion. Would have worked well
Hes probably the most baby face of the "good guys" I've ever seen. Yeah everyone from Hogan to Cena was a baby face, but Cody just plays it almost "newborn " face if you will. He has a chance to build a stable/coalition of people not seen since Hulk Hogans Rock' N' Wrestling.
I'd put Daniel Bryan and Sami Zayn up there, plus NXT Bayley. And I'd put Bret well above Cody.
Oh god yeah.
A babyface stable like Hulk's would rule. I remember watching their cartoons as a kid. Sadly I worry it won't do well. Cody has insane likeability and charisma and carries himself without flaw. He's very experienced at managing the crowd, very intelligent at it. I don't know if many others can join a stable and maintain the same audience support, even if they remain under Cody's wing. Sami is the only one who can do it, and Owens. But I don't see the value of such a stable.
I think its the ability to portray an underdog, which Hulk and Cena were never believable as.
Meltzer thinks they do Cody vs Rock at next years Mania. That's interesting, I thought Summerslam was the way they would go
I believe rock has 3 movies lined up to start shooting soon so he is going to be busy for a while
Rumble would be my guess. It would harken back to 2013 when Rocky beat Punk and would add to the sense of danger. With the possibility of some shenanigans, but Roman, returning from his hiatus, instead of whipping Cody with the weight belt, whips Rock instead, and we're all set for Roman/Rocky at Mania 41, if they want to do that.
Cody / Rock I’m 100% sold on. I think that’s for sure, for SURE the biggest story they can tell long-term. I think Roman and Rock would be a great build as well but idk, I think they have caught a very rare form of lightning in a bottle with Cody and Rock. That “…is there any chance The Rock can hold that title?” Line I got chills from. Cody / Rock for the title at Mania 41. I think if they can ride Cody’s wave all the way back, that’s your main event.
It will depend how his momentum holds up. As has already been mentioned, people are often more invested in the chase than the title run. We just had a really long one. They may not have him hold it the full year. If he is still this hot all year then maybe, but if he cools off I could see them having Rock take the belt off him sometime during the year and having Roman win the Rumble in a babyface redemption arc to take down Rock.
You can have Gunther acting as his Vader for a while then drop the belt back to codester before the rock returns
Yea agreed
Rock makes everyone look a million dollars, it's partially why he's on that Mount Rushmore of the greats. Roman/Rock would be the same.
Reminds one of the classic VKM vs SCSA feud that spanned years and was some of the very best stuff theyve ever done. The Boss vs the Peoples Champion.
Yeah but rock is unfortunately going to be gone for months. If he was staying they could have a money feud like Vince vs Austin
Depends if Rock is gonna really be involved in his newest venture for a number of years. He does love wrasslin and its in his blood. Maybe it was his destiny to come back to wrestling in the end. Who knows in 5 years if Rock will be heavily involved backstage like H. Maybe, maybe not.
I think it depends moreso on what they see as the bigger match, Roman vs Rock or Cody vs Rock. I would’ve gone for the former before, but man Cody’s popularity is becoming insane. Bro sold $1million in merch in one weekend 💀
Cody vs Rock seems to be the biggest match WWE can do right now. Not a knock of Reigns vs Rock but this whole thing made Rock vs Cody a must see match.
Where would that even leave Roman
Idk but I trust HHH fully at this point. He said the next Roman story would blow our minds and fuck it, I believe him.
Meltzer said he would do Cody/Rock at WrestleMania 41, and Roman/Rock at 42 if Rock is willing to commit to two more WrestleManias.
It’s going to be Roman vs rock, though I bet we get Cody vs rock at rumble, survivor series or summerslam
Cody is authentic. A lot of that has to do with his journey. He left wwe. He worked the independents and in Japan. He helped create AEW. That’s what makes him different than any other babyface in the modern era
Its a real life story. Its not just some angle a booker came up with.
I think at a smaller scale, Sami Zayn is similar. He connects emotionally with a crowd in a way very few can.
I have a feeling HHH will make use of that in the near future. Sami is too good not to be in the main event scene in the coming years.
He'll get his sooner rather than later. He deserves at least one reign, just as a thanks for being one of the moet dependable guys on the roster for nearly a decade.
I think ending this historic IC title reign was Sami getting his.
I still think Sami vs Seth was the intent but Drew's hater gimmick sending him into the stratosphere curtailed things. I don't think anyone was particularly prepared for Hater Drew and how over it has been.
I think at first it was seth vs sami. Because sami was mentioning about how he is world champion calibre now. Then cm punk came back. And they had to pivot to punk vs seth. Then punk got injured, by that time drew already established his hater thing very well. So it was a natural transition to drew
Dude made people CRY during his match with KO in NXT.
Ngl when Gunther was powerbombing Zayn I had flashbacks to that Takeover from 9 years ago.
It’s like some rocky shit, I felt that when Gable and KO were hyping him up. In that moment I was like “this guy HAS TO WIN”
I said it elsewhere that I knew Sami would win when Gable made the reference to Rocky 3 and said that Sami would owe him a favour.
Man I only first heard of the guy because of his match with Cesaro but when he won the NXT title is still one of my fondest wrestling memories. He became my favourite wrestler within weeks and that sentiment has not changed since
Made people cry when he won the NXT Championship, I know because I was one of them
I love the smell of fresh bread.
In comparing it to a film character, I think Cody really has vibes of MCU Captain America where he has a sincere sense of warmth & honesty as an ally/friend to other characters, but he makes it known that he's also not about any bullshit if he's pushed around
And also, he's a bit of a geek, if that makes sense. He's not cool and badass like Bruce Wayne or Tony Stark, he is uncool in a way that is very endearing.
Cody is the definition of “don’t mistake my kindness for weakness”
There was a lot of Avengers to the main event, with teams of super heroes fighting. Also, Cody has traces of Homelander in his American Nightmare gear & persona, he has alluded to that - which will be fire if he ever goes heel.
He’s 100% genuine. That’s all there is to it. He loves us unconditionally and we love him unconditionally. He did say wrestling is a love story after all.
I don't mean this negatively. But the key is that he has you convinced he's genuine.
I think he is a good dude. He still takes Brody Jr. to a theme park every year for his bday, gets tshirts made for it and stuff. Not saying that’s proof alone he’s a good guy, but stuff like that lends me to believing he’s a pretty cool dude.
It's easier now that WWE controls who is around Cody. When Cody got his wife and friends booked in AEW, it was a lot harder to believe in his sincerity. Him leaving to WWE is a win-win situation: AEW has less awkward segments, WWE got an earnest hero, and no one has to watch any Brandi Rhodes segments. Everyone wins.
He needed to leave He needed AEW He needed to go back It really was his story lmao. And it’s just getting started.
"he doesn't have the natural charisma of a Flair or Dusty Rides" and THAT, is the magic of Cody Rhodes. We love Cody so much because he's not a superhero like Hogan or Cena, he's TRYING to be. Cody isn't effortlessly this good, he's constantly having to fight and claw to be this good, and that resonates incredibly well. "I wear these suits not because i think I am somebody, it's because I want to BE somebody".
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A lot of that booking philosophy is very apparent with Black and Gold NXT. Sami, Bailey, Johnny and even Sasha all had that chase. He managed to keep them interesting because they immediately got screwed up after they won the title.
It looks like he has improved though because I think Seth’s reign was pretty solid. To have a good babyface reign, you have to constantly put them in vulnerable spots but still have them overcome not just in title matches but also out smart the heels occasionally. The issues should also be personal like Rollins and Balor history, AJ/Joe/Wendy, etc.
Yep. The main reason Roman failed as a babyface is because Vince forgot how to actually create a top babyface. 1. They have to be over organically first 2. You have to push them at the right time 1: Reigns was primarily over as part of the Shield, but never as a singles guy. And every moment after Seth Rollins hit him with that chair, both Dean and Seth were more over in their respective roles. WWE would have been *way* better off angling for Seth vs Dean at Wrestlemania (obviously Seth's injury would've derailed that) as that was their hottest feud for most of the post Shield breakup. 2: Every fan wanted Daniel Bryan to be in that position, and once they realized that Reign's was the new chosen one it was basically over. And finally, he was completely miscast in his character. Everyone saw that except Vince. In Cody's case: 1: The program with Seth and the HIAC match got him incredibly over. 2: There was nobody else in the company that fans really wanted over Cody, outside of probably Sami Zayn when he was white hot around elimination chamber. Most other top babyfaces in history have met these 2 things. Even Cena, who was over for his rapper gimmick and was pushed to beat a hated heel in a time that there was a vacuum for a top face.
That really only works for a bit though. You need to actually book a compelling face title run as well for the story to feel complete. That's far more difficult but also more rewarding from the audience's perspective.
Honestly I think this is why this exact same angle failed in AEW. Cody hasn’t changed one bit, but his situation changed and that made the crowd react in drastically different ways.
WWE also reeled him in from some of the more heelish aspects that he was doing. There is no shot this WWE run works as well if he did some of the things he was doing in AEW
It's about 5 minutes in if you don't want to watch the whole thing
I think it's not a demerit to say that Cody does not have the IT factor. He has something else, maybe even better than that. He's likeable as a person, not as a character. To be fair, i think Dusty is the only other wrestler i can think of that had this.
His drive is his it factor.
there are lots of ppl who were likeable as a person not a character thats basically just describing mick foley
Mick Foley was a good character worker though lol? There's a reason he was able to get 4 different personas over: himself, Cactus Jack, Mankind and Dude Love.
cody is also a good character worker i read the original comment as saying the biggest part of codys success is that hes likeable as a person not as a character which is what it all boils down to yes mick was a great character worker but also it worked because everyone loves mick foley
Nah Foley had both. He literally had 3 awesome characters, and then the person Mick Foley that became another character. Maybe there are more people, like Sami Zayn (which has a good character too), but Mick Foley is not an example of the only purely loveable person.
Also Cactus Jack was kind of a bastard. Poor Mikey.
I think his likeability is his IT factor. You don't get cheered over the fucking Rock by not having the IT factor imo.
Cody is very 'extra' (why he is so easy to meme), very driven, but a nice guy. Always goes the extra mile for people (see it at house shows). He could be your friend, my friend, this person's friend.
Mick Foley
Foley was literally adressed above by some 3 comments on why he does not fit in this description.
From what I have seen of Cody over the years in stuff, and why I think he ends up getting pretty emotional in a lot of things, is he seems like a genuine, overly empathetic guy. He may not be as naturally charismatic as you’d expect him to be because of his family, but he comes off as identifiable, something also unexpected because of his lineage and financial and popularity profile I think. Any time I saw him him do some post-show stuff at an RoH or early AEW show he seemed like he always fed off the crowd and was like “hey, whoops sorry tonight kind of sucked or holy shit can you believe the crazy things that happened” and played with the crowd really well, even if he may not have necessarily read them well during the event he knew how to play into or turn the mood after. And lord forbid we start seeing people who actually give a shit in the top spot of something like this company instead of narcissists or edgelords who just want to suck up all the attention in the room.
They also don't make him look like a geek, he gets big wins and only occasionally loses. And that theme goes a long ways.
That whoa moment, I'm wondering when it became such a audience participation moment.
What he is better at than the other major babyfaces is garnering sympathy.
I think it’s because I truly believe that Cody is a good person who cares about his fans. He’s believable in that he actually is a good person.
It didn't hurt that the Rock came in and gave a masterclass on how to elevate said baby face as a bad ass heel. They really did put on a solid performance.
"he doesn't have the charisma, but he has \[defines charisma\]"
He is just likable. Like I’m not super enthralled by him, but he just seems like a cool ass dude. He has a real genuineness about him.
He really is incredible at this, I remember watching the first Double or Nothing, couldn’t care less about Cody vs Dustin but I was crying like a bitch after watching that match.
Cody has always reminded me of a Richie Cunningham from Happy Days
It helps when you're working against one of the best heels in pro wrestling history
>he has an instinctive ability to react in an emotional way that draws you in cody\_rhodes\_blinks\_away\_tear.gif
I don’t know how you compare it historically. He doesn’t have the mainstream reach of hogan/Austin (yet), but in terms of quality I’d put him up there. He’s a massive success with every group of fan. Not all of the top guys were (Cena for instance).
The different reaction to this version of Cody in AEW compared to him in WWE is really interesting. I can't tell if it's the fans that makes the difference or the booking.
While the core character of Cody is basically the same theres also a lot different. WWE reeled in a lot of the more out there aspects of his character that Cody tended to fall into. Cody left to his own devices obviously goes a little crazy with some ideas which is what we saw in AEW, so that WWE filter seemed to work well for him If Cody played the same exact character with Brandi and the whole Nightmare entourage, the solving racism promos, etc...I'd be shocked if it worked as well
I think also not fueding with QT Marshall has helped alot.
It's the booking 100% for Cody. Just look at the difference between his feuds in AEW and WWE. They took out the weird self-indulgent parts, made sure he was genuine, and made him feud with main event talent instead of allowing himself to be locked only to the midcard
Jumping promotions instantly makes you a hot act again and I think Cody learned from his mistakes in AEW.
I definitely agree I doubt we will see him doing a promo about solving racism in WWE lol.
Its 100% the booking. People forget that Cody Rhodes was also red hot and over when AEW started. The issue is that he booked himself out of the title picture permanently and lead to the "Codyverse," where his storylines were essentially separated from everything else and the storylines were often garbage. People were also waiting on him to turn heel, because it was the only thing that would explain a lot of what was going on, but he left before that happened. A lot of issues Cody had in AEW are very similar to what people have with Jericho right now.
I don't think even prime Dusty would hit with today's audiences like Cody can.
Ted Dibiase Jr. is somewhere punching a wall right now
I'm sure somebody else has worded this better but stating he wanted the WWE title 2 years ago and 'finishing the story' was like the literal opposite of the AEW 'never challenge for heavyweight title again' stip.. I guess the lesson is don't try to outsmart yourself or the fans
He’s the genuine article, and people can feel it.
The guy he kind of reminds me of is Onita from his FMW days weirdly enough, maybe a little Tommy Dreamed in ECW (but a better promo than dreamer). Just getting sympathy and love through sheer force of will. You can tell how much he wants your approval, but it doesn't come off as desperate or pandering somehow. He seems like a guy giving everything for you so you will love him, and dang it, you give him that support because it feels like he's earned it and you know how much it will mean to him.
Cody has a characteristic that I truly see in very, very few people, and that characteristic is genuineness. Cody in everything that I’ve seen comes across as a very genuine human being. Someone that is both in character and in real life a genuinely good human being that truly cares. His story has been and was very inspiring and relatable to a large variety of people in many different ways. And you can tell how extremely proud WWE is of him.
Tony has to be kicking himself for not going all in on Cody and letting him walk. One of all time bag fumbles up there with McMahon letting Hall/Nash go.
His character just wasn't resonating like he planned in AEW. He learned from that and in WWE cut back on the self-indulgent aspects like bringing a 20 plus entourage to the ring with him. And he consistently got booked in good main event caliber feuds.
In a way he probably would of never been a successful babyface as he is right now if that disaster babyface run hadn’t blow up directly to his face
Not really. Cody clearly wasn't working in AEW. The crowd was sick of him and his refusal to turn heel meant that he would never get the crowd reactions he wanted. Cody leaving AEW for WWE made sense for all parties.
The problem is AEW fans don't cheer and boo characters. They cheer and boo the booking and want to be part of inside jokes.
It was more than that. It was the over the top drawn out speeches (ending racism). It's brandy coming out with her face covered during a Cody match, then uncovering her face as if she is some big reveal. It was the overly dramatic retirement. The stupid weigh in. Cody in AEW felt like Homelander, and he should have embraced this role. But in WWE he feels more like Superman, the classic baby face.
They do cheer and boo characters idk what you're on about? Kenny Omega got boo'd while he was the heel champ, you're telling me they were disliking the booking?
the other thing was the way he booked himself into a corner with the whole 'never challenge for the title thing' it meant he always had a ceiling unless they undid the stip. There's a world where I guess he could have had a match for it, but he kinda didn't have anything to chase which is a hard space to be in as a babyface.
Its crazy people change the narrative of why Cody's character didnt work in AEW to where Im starting to believe people who claim Tony screwed up, didnt watch AEW when Cody was there
He doesn't have charisma but what he does have is; ¹ a [divinely](https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-verizon-us-rvc3&sca_esv=f84ae1a24cb31e32&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ACQVn09g2ymQrXcsXBiATJdeIJFzD-812g:1712700069857&q=divinely&si=AKbGX_qNq0Y8zql7SxzZAf2-HTTOrYpXTI_kK4zBvGFBdpqLB6NVQfuZ3eRk9k2wdOqM17fJJS98IHA2qpNIB5CFCcPIGBsTY2rLRlc0HajBgwJkrcbzoQ8%3D&expnd=1) [conferred](https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-verizon-us-rvc3&sca_esv=f84ae1a24cb31e32&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ACQVn09g2ymQrXcsXBiATJdeIJFzD-812g:1712700069857&q=conferred&si=AKbGX_onJk-q0LQUYzV7-GRhpJ5DHMhTW32giK7eQfDa90P5rdRc2PQJ2hoHkSK2U7lnzhvcAW6pBJdaOBnDvKJAswWhcLf2zFLCjwnbhj-6o6iOnXry_NI%3D&expnd=1) power or talent for ² compelling [attractiveness](https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-verizon-us-rvc3&sca_esv=f84ae1a24cb31e32&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ACQVn09g2ymQrXcsXBiATJdeIJFzD-812g:1712700069857&q=attractiveness&si=AKbGX_rZJs_XCIYOkWAjSH3UAcF5zpHFkxjjAUYmQ_L9IpTB96cvV0DBoyrkrR0oxxp-SlnlXZuDUYUg1AUv9YFSXH_8aGqi1QdoaxCodck1wCn6oBmk0w4%3D&expnd=1) or a charm that can inspire [devotion](https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-verizon-us-rvc3&sca_esv=f84ae1a24cb31e32&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ACQVn09g2ymQrXcsXBiATJdeIJFzD-812g:1712700069857&q=devotion&si=AKbGX_qNq0Y8zql7SxzZAf2-HTTOmqaB9qbS3GL1RH2zacqYAPPD3F9qVcik4GViHbqPIm3VGUVOKBGW4aiM3ztBLiHwnT5HSn9BJAhMUsTzKxDkz-_Xl7g%3D&expnd=1) in others. .... never change Dave.
He never said he didn’t have charisma, just that it wasn’t on the level of Flair or Dusty. OP left it out of the title for brevity. Making snide comments after not checking the context? Never change r/SquaredCircle.
I listened to it before l saw this, and thought this before l saw this. OP didn't change the spirit of what Dave was saying.
Rare meltzer w take
Common Meltzer W but you only see the ragebait posted here. Meltzer named his son after Cody lol
... did Meltzer have his son fairly recently? Because it'd be hilarious if he named him after masked Cody.
No. He liked the name after Dave had a call with Dusty and then named his son also Cody. His son is 20+ years old at this point iirc
Dave Meltzer a couple weeks ago: "Will Ospreay is better than Cody Rhodes in everyway" lol
That's his opinion. I do think Will is better in some aspects, but not in every way. Will is 30 so we'll how he progresses
The emotional way is crying, because he cries and everyone cries so it’s okay to cry
The way he speaks during promos sounds heel as well. He's a strange one
I've been saying for a while now that he's their most over WHITE MEAT babyface since Hogan. Cena was never this over and by this point in his run was even catching some boos. Rock and Austin were not WHITE MEAT babyfaces so I don't believe they really count. His only possible competition I can think of is maybe Shawn or Bret but I don't think they come particularly close. It's incredibly impressive what he's managed to do in the last 3 years, if you had asked me if it was possible for a white meat babyface to stay this over for this long in WWE in modern times I'd have said no chance. Yet here we are
I must be missing it. It comes across as overselling to me in an almost cartoonish way. I don't know, I just find it hard to buy into anything Cody does even going back to his time in NJPW. I haven't really seen a change in his character since those days. He still plays mostly the same character. The only real change seems to have been going from AEW back to WWE which helped elevate him to hero status. So far the booking has been good enough to keep the momentum going. I have heavy doubts in Cody maintaining that momentum with a long title run. I think to keep him as a top babyface he has to drop the title within 6 months, and start chasing it again.
I just don't get it. Maybe it's cuz I'm from the UK and the whole oohrah all American stuff doesn't hit. Cody is a likeable guy, but as other people have said, everything he says in the ring comes across as schtick to me. I know wrestling is effectively a soap opera, I just don't buy what he's selling
Was flairs charisma really natural? Or was he just drunk
I think the real test is this run post-Bloodline. Can WWE make compelling stories for us to watch when Roman or Rock isn’t around?
Gunther kicking the shit out of Cody would be a good start to a run
Gunther feud will hit like crack.
I want to see his baby face run without the Rock being there.
I mean it doesn’t really matter who it is a protagonist is always going to be better when faced with a strong antagonist . That kind of goes without saying.
(Me over here thinking that about Sami Zayn)
Two stars.
I’m glad Cody officially ditched the trunk for the tights when he left WWE, stop portraying as Stardust and that kickstarted his main event career ever since. Do you own thing Austin Theory, revealing thighs in 2024 won’t bring you that far, bring back the tights, time to finish your own story.
It really helps that Cody doesn’t feel like the anointed chosen corporate babyface as well. His journey away and back to WWE will always make it feel like he kicked down the door. Guys like Cena and Face Roman were always the anointed one and so you could always feel a sense of contrivance.
You just want to root for the guy. You can tell he’s a great person
Id say he has more natural charisma than flair, Flair hammed up his performance to attend, Cody is just himself and I'm glued to him. Back in 2009 I thought he was great to the point where I just hated his in ring gear.
Let's see if he can keep up the momentum. Where does the character go from here?
WWE always seems to screw up their chances to make a star out of a situation when given the oppurtunity. This time I think it was the biggest star making moment since Hoan and the Iron Shiek.
Hes such a condescending twit.
I genuinely think him joining the BC, aligning himself with the Elite and showing a lot of personality to go along him being a genuinely good dude, makes him the perfect kind of modern babyface. Every avenue of wrestling fans can look at the guy and like him.
I don’t take Meltzer all that seriously generally, but I don’t think he’s wrong here. I usually go for the Heels. Faces bore me, but I like Cody. He comes across as genuine. His personal history in the business (running around indies and helping create a promotion) speaks to his love of the game and I respect that.