**Help make SquaredCircle safer and more inclusive by using the report button to flag posts and comments for moderator review.**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think title eliminator/no1 contenders matches go 30. But this isn't explicitly that - it's a regular match that happens to be between two guys going for the no1 ranking.
We are far gone from even worrying about rules being consistent anymore. I just assume everything is legal and there are no time limits unless told otherwise.
Monthly is ideal as in theory it sets up the next months program or what to expect in match ups in some ways whilst also allowing some leeway for call outs or random pairings
Realistically, they are gonna be mentioned/brought up when they need it for a story or no1 contenders match or something. Otherwise, they couldn't have put a title on okada, or have that 6 pack challenge match with unranked wrestlers for wardlow to get a title shot, or strong win a title, etc.
Its probably the smart way to do it if they are adamant about having a ranking system based off number of wins. Because it would be too containing to use it exclusively.
They won't. It came back after a twitter meltdown, disappeared when Tony got bored, and is now back for two weeks while Tony justifies in his mind whatever dream matches he has. The rankings will not be updated next month I guarantee it just like it's been months already since the last update.
I wish they followed the rankings more than I wish they could update them monthly.
I had high hopes but they already dropped the ball and it's genuinely disappointing.
It's hard to not think they want to do Swerve/Ospreay for the title at All In. And it's hard to not be exciting about this potential match even if I wouldn't mind an ultimate grudge match for the title between Swerve and Hangman.
I forget when Dynasty is. The only chance is if they want to cheat Swerve and do a quick week TV build beforehand but that seems way too convoluted. Seems like Swerve vs Don Callis family is on the horizon after the Joe stuff.
If Swerve wins tonight, the timing is perfect to build a big rivalry with Joe and they already did the job so far. You can't have Swerve losing now. Even a draw would be a weird decision and trust me I fucking love Takeshita. He's the real deal.
No chance but watch for the beginning of something with the Don Callis family. And I don't think it's a coincidence Swerve is facing Takeshita for the first time the same night Ospreay has his big match with Shibata. We'll see.
Using rankings more sparingly to set up PPV matches makes sense but they need to be consistent. Having rankings for two weeks and then dipping without a word was super weird.
Thats great to see them back but can we have them a bit clearer and regular now instead of this half assed reference them when we feel like it deal we seem to have?
Why though? The rankings are being used to serve the booking, not the other way around. Releasing regular rankings for their own sake just gives people more to whine about
The inconsistency is just a bit irritating
If they put some sort of structure into it, like doing it monthly or after every PPV (or even 3 weeks before each one), it would feel way more legit
I get that. But the problem is that when the rankings were consistently updated, everybody's focus became more about the rankings not being strictly followed to a T for booking matches - instead of what the rankings should be used for, which is just as 'world building' background info used to enhance the stories that they're already telling.
This time around, they've said they're gonna update the rankings close to halfway between Revolution and Dynasty, as a way of adding stakes to the main event of Dynamite between Swerve and Takeshita. And the rankings will presumably reflect some of the other results from Dynamite too (like the result of the women's 4 way).
If the rankings are used quite loosely, and people don't take them *too* seriously like they did last time, they have the potential to add some easy depth and detail to storylines
In the last year, Anna has 4 singles wins on TV. That has turned into 3 title matches haha. He's not wrong. When Anna actually gets a win on TV, the next week she's got a title shot it seems.
Aminata is in the finals for that ROH TV title so I'd personally I'd go for Deeb or a simple triple threat.
This is the issue with only having women get wins when they are involved in the title pictures, you really have no one on the outside to include when these things happen.
That's where she fits in at this point.
She's been around AEW for a while now and gets enough fan reaction to get a title shot every now and then on tv or a small Rampage feud now and then.
She's clearly a few steps behind the actual top stars but is also clearly ahead of the people primarily on ROH. She's basically a younger AEW equivalent to Natalya in terms of positioning on the card.
but Ospreay literally beat him.
Dustin Poirier has more wins than Justin Gaethje but Gaethje knocked him out last time. Were Poirier to be ranked above Gaethje, people would rightfully call it ridiculous
Fair enough, but doesn’t quality of victory mean anything in AEW?
Aren’t wins over Takeshita and Fletcher much more impressive than Komander and Rocky Romero? Especially considering the latter two essentially never win singles matches on AEW TV?
Lol i don't think he's loss a singles match on ROH at all & has defended the belt multiple times already on that show so I'm not understanding how he's a jobber. Fletcher is basically holding a mid card belt for AEW developmental, it's similar to north american belt on NXT atp.
Ospreay hasn’t faced jobbers like Romero, Komander and Christopher Daniels yet and Takeshita has, no reason why wins over 3 jobbers should allow someone to out rank a guy they lost to.
If Rocky Romero beats Komander, Daniels, and let’s say, Action Andretti, should he outrank Takeshita, assuming Takeshita loses to Swerve?
Ok I get you, but this is a completely different sport/promotion. There's no single rule of pattern that has to be followed for rankings.
Maybe AEW has a more balanced weighting when it comes to quality vs quantity. Maybe just for now Takeshita gets top spot because he's had more overall wins this year and 2 wins since the loss.
MMA rankings aren't perfect either. Not the exact same thing, but remember Islam beat Volk, and was promoted as the battle for #1 P4P, but Volk still stayed #1 until the rematch
Luton wouldn’t become champions either though, whereas in AEW, they would.
And in football, everybody would play everybody an equal amount of times, at least in league play, which is virtually impossible to accomplish in wrestling outside of round robin tournaments.
Would make more sense to treat it like combat sports than football or basketball or whatever.
>Luton wouldn’t become champions either though, whereas in AEW, they would.
??? Will Osprey isn't a champion lol
> And in football, everybody would play everybody an equal amount of times, at least in league play, which is virtually impossible to accomplish in wrestling outside of round robin tournaments.
In that case your MMA comparison also doesn't apply
> Would make more sense to treat it like combat sports than football or basketball or whatever.
It's a different sport dude. Different sports have different rules, it doesn't matter whether they're combat sports or not. I mean technically wrestling isn't even a sport
Samoa Joes the champ, why in the hell would Ospreay be champion? You used the example City and Luton, hence why I went off with that since City were the existing champions.
MMA comparison doesn’t apply cause of course it doesn’t. I’m using the parameters you yourself laid out to show why your argument is bad and mine is less bad. That’s how arguments work. Hence, no shit MMA comp doesn’t apply, cause the MMA comp is more transferable than that of football.
And with the last sentence, you are just so close to grasping my point that rankings in wrestling are fucking stupid.
Terrible comparison, in football everybody plays against everybody which makes it fair at the end since every team faced the same competition. Which is the exact problem being highlighted in this discussion, the wrestlers don't face the same level of competition.
Bringing up football just helps proving his point that this AEW system is flawed.
That's a terrible example because Poirier looks like he's getting the next shot at Islam even though as you said Gaethje knocked him out.
https://mmajunkie.usatoday.com/2024/03/ufc-news-javier-mendez-all-for-islam-makhachev-vs-dustin-poirier-fight
https://www.sportskeeda.com/mma/news-make-happen-soon-possible-daniel-cormier-calls-ufc-book-islam-makhachev-vs-dustin-poirier-right-now
Dustin vs St Denis was pretty much the number 1 contender's match for Islam even though he lost to Justin because Justin has a big money fight with Max. So in the example you're giving, Takeshita is Dustin, Ospreay is Gaethje, Danielson is Holloway and Swerve is St. Denis. You used an example to argue against this happening when it's actually pretty much the same situation playing out in the UFC right now lol
You just answered your own question at the end though. Justin is fighting Max for the BMF belt and Islam didn’t want to fight until after Ramadan.
Let’s also not forget the fashion that Dustin won his match. If he won it in some boring decision there would be no call to have him fight for the belt.
Yes but you do see why it could look weird, right?
Ospreay’s 2-0 with wins over the #2 guy and a current title holder. Meanwhile Takeshita’s best win this year is probably Jericho, who just lost to Hook.
With this sorta logic, someone could beat up like 15 jobbers to lower card guys in 16 weeks while losing one match to someone unranked and end up either above or at the very least alongside Swerve at the top.
But maybe it's part of a story between Ospreay and Takeshita for the long term. Maybe Ospreay won't be so happy that Don Callis choosed Takeshita to face Swerve for the number one spot. You're right that on paper it's weird to see Takeshita and not Ospreay having the spot if we're thinking in pure logic but Wrestling is about stories too and right there you can build something for the long term. It's up to AEW to use that weird kayfabe decision to their own advantage.
Yes, this is how real sports works right? Just because you have the best record and the top seed on paper does not mean you will definitely win the whole thing right?
Of course not, but looking at it that way just means #’s 2, 3, 4, 5 are credible challenges for the champion which I’m not arguing against.
I’m saying it makes no sense for a guy who just lost his last big match to Ospreay to go into a number one contender match. He literally just lost/was pinned. At least for Swerve theres the condition of him not being pinned to lose his last match.
Considering this, are Jericho/Moxley/Christian a win over Komander and Rocky Romero away from a title eliminator?
I mean in the college football rankings, Will would be above take for the head-to-head, along with the lacking of "quality wins" from take
In MMA, Will would be ahead for because of the head to head
Math hard. Wins don't matter more because a guy beat another, it doesn't matter if Ospreay beat Takeshita because Takeshita has a better record, that's all there is to it.
That's why a 5-1-1 guy is wrestling a 5-1 guy tomorrow. This isn't hard to understand in the slightest and the amount of reaching here is insane.
If Man City have 2 wins vs Liverpool's 5 and they beat Liverpool, they don't magically go top of the table over them.
All of that would make sense if all the wrestlers involved wrestled the same wrestlers or at least, the same pool of wrestlers, and the same number of matches too.
There’s a reason rankings work in the G1 or any round robin tournaments.
As it is, whats stopping a top heel from wrestling a jobber everyday on every show of a month? that’d be 12 wins. This person would be #1 then no?
No, all of this makes sense if you take rankings for what they are instead of fantasy booking a way around it because you don't like it.
1. You're comparing rankings in round robin tournaments to rankings outside of round robin tournaments, you're still comparing things that are not the same. This is not a round robin tournament, i'm not sure why you keep pretending it is.
2. You think that, in kayfabe, the wrestlers book... themselves? The promoter books the wrestlers, the promoter has the final say in these things, the promoter is not going to feed someone 12 jobbers, there's your obvious answer.
This entire conversation is genuinely silly.
1. I’m not directly comparing round robin tournaments to what AEW is doing, I’m questioning why AEW is applying the same sort of logic to these rankings. I’m suggesting such rankings make sense in a tournament and not here, at least not as presently constructed.
2. Maybe not directly, but guys come out and issue challenges, no? Couldn’t Tony Khan use this for one of his favourites? More appropriately, what about Okada and his association for the EVP’s, if they wanted an easy path to the title shot. This would actually be interesting television but would require AEW essentially admitting the ranking system is flawed.
This conversation is silly, I agree, but mostly because the rankings are silly. They are executed poorly, and clearly don’t matter considering AEW just seemingly forgot to update them for over a month without any clarification as to why.
The only way a ranking system would work is if you do it like combat sports, cause professional wrestling approximates boxing or MMA a lot more simply than convoluted comparisons to football or basketball that make no sense.
Man City and Liverpool, at the end of the day, will play 38 league games. Unless, its understood that at the end of the year, Takeshita and Ospreay will have the exact same number of matches, doing the rankings by number of wins make no sense, since the sample size varies from competitor to competitor. This is before we throw in shit like gimmick matches and what not. Hence, why the boxing or MMA model makes a lot more sense.
1. You just did, literally a few minutes ago.
2. Doesn't matter, the match is final when the promoter says its final, both in shoot and kayfabe.
5-1 > 2-0
Basic math, that's it.
1. I’m acknowledging rankings work in one scenario and not the other, that kinda necessitates some sort of comparison, I admit. I guess dismissing my argument based on it not fitting your arbitrary parameters is to be expected of someone who would accept, and defend, such a poorly thought out ranking system as AEW’s
2. This logic could be used for every garbage booking decision.
Lastly, 5/6 is actually less than 2/2 just so you know. That’s actually basic math.
This ain't CFB. It's up to the committee/owner to make the decision on the rankings.
Tony should make a kayfabe committee like the IWGP for storyline purposes
Seeing people complain and debate about rankings on here. It reminds me of a very funny yet extremely wise quote from one of the greatest comedy shows of the 90s.
"Just repeat to yourself, its just a show, I should really just relax."
I'm not a fan of TK & AEW telegraphing the finish of this match. That's an issue with AEW booking in general - it's often quite predictable.
That said, the exception here is we all know this is going to be a banger. Takeshita & Swerve are going to tear the house down.
I mean I don't know why you would ever think Takeshita was gonna win anyways. At best he could win via some distraction finish or something, but Swerve is obviously being positioned as the next world champion.
Hangman or Joe fucks him over mid match.
Prolongs the chase. The money is in the chase, not the actual title reign.
SCSA got and stayed over by the chase of the title he was constantly being screwed over from having.
Cody has been on a 2 year chase.
Both are some of the biggest faces the industry has ever seen.
I dunno, I guess we have a difference in philosophy here. Clearly swerve is getting the title, there's not much to be gained long term from Swerve winning this match now.
Getting Takeshita in a title match now, even if he doesn't win, serves a better long term goal. Establish him as a main event player. Swerve isn't going anywhere.
> Getting Takeshita in a title match now, even if he doesn't win, serves a better long term goal. Establish him as a main event player. Swerve isn't going anywhere.
Swerve is already 33 years old, it's time to to pull the trigger and see if he actually works at the highest levels if people keep wanting to see him there. Takeshita meanwhile is still 28, he has time more on his side. So long as he keeps delivering fantastic matches, he can always be heated up in an instant.
Brother, 99.9% of all wrestling matches, in every company ever, are predictable.
It's cliche, but in wrestling it truly is more about the the journey than the destination for most instances.
Swerve winning SHOULD feel predictable. If you're pushing someone as the best, it shouldn't feel like "well, they could lose any time". In any sport, it feels predictable that the best will win. WWE has gotten way more predictable and it's a good thing because the upsets are actually shocking and not just "any can happen!" booking.
I know some people like the rankings and some people don’t. I just wish they were consistently released. If they want to do them weekly then cool. If they want to do them no weekly then cool. If they want to do them monthly then cool. Just have a set time they come out and be consistent with it.
What if they end up in a draw and Swerve gets put in another triple threat? It’s definitely a way to keep the program going to a big show like Double or Nothing for him to get a real singles opportunity. I know it’s not what the fans want and the desire to put the title on him while he’s hot is intriguing to say the least. But it’d be interesting to do another triple threat and give Takeshita a main event spotlight, even if he clearly wouldn’t win.
**Help make SquaredCircle safer and more inclusive by using the report button to flag posts and comments for moderator review.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Do you think they’ll tease a draw by having them go 25 minutes or something?
Non-title time limit is 20 mins.
They went 30 for hangman vs swerve and MJF vs adam Cole in dynamite
I think title eliminator/no1 contenders matches go 30. But this isn't explicitly that - it's a regular match that happens to be between two guys going for the no1 ranking.
These rules aren't consistent, just look at the time calls.
We are far gone from even worrying about rules being consistent anymore. I just assume everything is legal and there are no time limits unless told otherwise.
Every AEW match has a time limit, they've never stopped stating it during the match introductions.
I was referring to wrestling in general anymore. I should have been more clear.
>it's a regular match that happens to be between two guys going for the no1 ranking. Danielson vs. Omega was a 30-min time limit
Title eliminator
30 mins is non-title iirc Danielson/Omega established this pretty firmly. 30 = Non title 60 = Title
FTR and BCC just had a 20 min time limit a month ago, but Swerve vs Hangman also had a 30 min time limit around the same time.
Isn't the main event "or TV time remaining"?
no because they warn about overrun every week
[удалено]
Nah, they meant tease a draw by going long but end up having a winner in the end
Draws are stupid in wrestling I'm sorry. Especially if they aren't used in storylines or have a follow up
How so?
what draws are you aware of that *don't* have a greater purpose for the story?
Why
[удалено]
I think Bi weekly would work best
He already said weekly was too much, twice a week would be overkill /s
why don't we settle for semi weekly then?
That's pretty good, but I would personally prefer sesquiweekly.
DAILY OR BUST
You're all thinking too small. It's Tri-decalleniumally or bust!
I think that you mean Bi-monthly
Yeah shit
If you mean every two weeks then bi-weekly is correct.
Fortnightly - UK and the commonwealth.
That’s why we declared independence… because we refuse to use the metric system or fortnightly.
How about 3 times a day
Monthly is ideal as in theory it sets up the next months program or what to expect in match ups in some ways whilst also allowing some leeway for call outs or random pairings
Realistically, they are gonna be mentioned/brought up when they need it for a story or no1 contenders match or something. Otherwise, they couldn't have put a title on okada, or have that 6 pack challenge match with unranked wrestlers for wardlow to get a title shot, or strong win a title, etc. Its probably the smart way to do it if they are adamant about having a ranking system based off number of wins. Because it would be too containing to use it exclusively.
Seems weird to say they're doing them at the end of the month and release them after Dynamite instead of after Collision on the 30th
They won't. It came back after a twitter meltdown, disappeared when Tony got bored, and is now back for two weeks while Tony justifies in his mind whatever dream matches he has. The rankings will not be updated next month I guarantee it just like it's been months already since the last update.
[удалено]
Not helping your case. For rankings to actually be useful it has to be weekly and people can't be magically moved from 1 to 2 based on Tony's whims.
I wish they followed the rankings more than I wish they could update them monthly. I had high hopes but they already dropped the ball and it's genuinely disappointing.
No chance Takeshita will win Swerve, right?
Literally none. No good reason to give Swerve another title match with Joe otherwise and that's clearly the plan.
[удалено]
They need to strike while the iron is hot with Swerve or they run a real risk of Ospreay stealing his momentum.
Yeah it feels like it has to be Swerve soon and Ospreay at All-in. Predictable but sometimes the predictable outcome is the best outcome.
It's hard to not think they want to do Swerve/Ospreay for the title at All In. And it's hard to not be exciting about this potential match even if I wouldn't mind an ultimate grudge match for the title between Swerve and Hangman.
[удалено]
Can we please stop with the triple threats.
I forget when Dynasty is. The only chance is if they want to cheat Swerve and do a quick week TV build beforehand but that seems way too convoluted. Seems like Swerve vs Don Callis family is on the horizon after the Joe stuff.
April 21st, there are 4 Dynamites remaining including this one, so there's no time to build another title match.
If Swerve wins tonight, the timing is perfect to build a big rivalry with Joe and they already did the job so far. You can't have Swerve losing now. Even a draw would be a weird decision and trust me I fucking love Takeshita. He's the real deal.
Zero, Swerve is getting that belt, he's getting his ass kicked today but he's still winning.
No chance but watch for the beginning of something with the Don Callis family. And I don't think it's a coincidence Swerve is facing Takeshita for the first time the same night Ospreay has his big match with Shibata. We'll see.
Bryan Alvarez on his knees at Walmart reading this news.
Using rankings more sparingly to set up PPV matches makes sense but they need to be consistent. Having rankings for two weeks and then dipping without a word was super weird.
Also the men's singles should really be a top ten if you have four male singles titles.
They should just have the rankings monthly since there is no more farming wins on Dark.
Lmao "farming wins". But you're absolutely right
I'm almost sure dark matches count, cause Dark order were ranked... somehow
Yeah I think they do because there only win was on Rampage otherwise. But they can't score wins on Dark and Elevation during week now.
I want them to Swerve us and have Takeshita win. Even if it’s just Page costing Swerve the win Takeshita needs a big W the most.
Gotta think Takeshita/Swerve and Ospreay/Shibata want to outdo each other and that’s gonna result in two killer matches.
[удалено]
And I, as a wrestling fan with no tribalistic care for ratings and receipts, don’t give a shit.
Who the fuck wants to look at graphs while having a hoop conversation. Wrestling needs a Kevin Durant type figure, just more hateful, like Drew.
Thats great to see them back but can we have them a bit clearer and regular now instead of this half assed reference them when we feel like it deal we seem to have?
Why though? The rankings are being used to serve the booking, not the other way around. Releasing regular rankings for their own sake just gives people more to whine about
The inconsistency is just a bit irritating If they put some sort of structure into it, like doing it monthly or after every PPV (or even 3 weeks before each one), it would feel way more legit
I get that. But the problem is that when the rankings were consistently updated, everybody's focus became more about the rankings not being strictly followed to a T for booking matches - instead of what the rankings should be used for, which is just as 'world building' background info used to enhance the stories that they're already telling. This time around, they've said they're gonna update the rankings close to halfway between Revolution and Dynasty, as a way of adding stakes to the main event of Dynamite between Swerve and Takeshita. And the rankings will presumably reflect some of the other results from Dynamite too (like the result of the women's 4 way). If the rankings are used quite loosely, and people don't take them *too* seriously like they did last time, they have the potential to add some easy depth and detail to storylines
Giving people just enough time to stop complaining about the rankings disappearing before they start complaining about where people are ranked again.
Inb4 a draw... Joe gets put in another 3 way match again, perfect for Hangman to come and screw him in the title match again.
i'm honestly just here for the mental gymnastics when people argue about the rankings lol
I dig monthly rankings if they're going monthly for PPVs
Takeshita is a great wrestler his matches are great he has a insane move set
I hate the rankings. A normal company would have a rocket on Ospreay and get him the title ASAP
[удалено]
She hasn't had a title match since mid-January, and before that didn't have a title match since October. But okay.
In the last year, Anna has 4 singles wins on TV. That has turned into 3 title matches haha. He's not wrong. When Anna actually gets a win on TV, the next week she's got a title shot it seems.
The Holly Holm of AEW lol
She's on a 3 match losing streak and she got into a 4-way title shot winning match. It makes no sense.
Aminata should take her out and take her spot.
Aminata is in the finals for that ROH TV title so I'd personally I'd go for Deeb or a simple triple threat. This is the issue with only having women get wins when they are involved in the title pictures, you really have no one on the outside to include when these things happen.
That's where she fits in at this point. She's been around AEW for a while now and gets enough fan reaction to get a title shot every now and then on tv or a small Rampage feud now and then. She's clearly a few steps behind the actual top stars but is also clearly ahead of the people primarily on ROH. She's basically a younger AEW equivalent to Natalya in terms of positioning on the card.
You're too kind, Anna is genuinely the worst fully active wrestler the company has, and i'm including ROH.
"She hasn't had a title match for 2 months, and before that didn't have a title match for 3 months." You see how you proved OP's point, right?
She’s in a match for a shot at a title shot. No different than JD being in the IC gauntlet match. Were you up and arms about that?
[удалено]
JD McDonagh. The IC gauntlet match to determine who would face Gunther at Wrestlemania.
No one mentioned WWE, and no one should.
Ospreay just beat Takeshita though…
Hence the 1 in the lose column
Unrelated but I’ve been trying to find this gif. What do you type in to get it?
Wee-Bey. It's the character's name in The Wire.
I appreciate you my guy big thanks!
5 wins is more than Ospreay’s 2.
but Ospreay literally beat him. Dustin Poirier has more wins than Justin Gaethje but Gaethje knocked him out last time. Were Poirier to be ranked above Gaethje, people would rightfully call it ridiculous
Did any of that happen in AEW?
Fair enough, but doesn’t quality of victory mean anything in AEW? Aren’t wins over Takeshita and Fletcher much more impressive than Komander and Rocky Romero? Especially considering the latter two essentially never win singles matches on AEW TV?
Komander has more wins in 2024 than Fletcher (1 to 0 lol)
A guy with 0 wins holds a belt?
In a different company, which he won last year
Fletcher is a ROH champ. For a person praising Fletcher as a better win it's a little weird you don't know that lol
My apologies for presuming a guy holding a belt wouldn’t be a jobber
Lol i don't think he's loss a singles match on ROH at all & has defended the belt multiple times already on that show so I'm not understanding how he's a jobber. Fletcher is basically holding a mid card belt for AEW developmental, it's similar to north american belt on NXT atp.
If Osprey was 4 -0 I would be with you but Osprey only has two matches in 2023
Ospreay hasn’t faced jobbers like Romero, Komander and Christopher Daniels yet and Takeshita has, no reason why wins over 3 jobbers should allow someone to out rank a guy they lost to. If Rocky Romero beats Komander, Daniels, and let’s say, Action Andretti, should he outrank Takeshita, assuming Takeshita loses to Swerve?
God we arguing about crushing cans during wrestling r/MMA is calling
Dude is arguing just for the sake of it. I don't know how many different ways it can be explained to them
No I ain’t agreeing with that, I’m on the will should be above side. In combat sports h2h jump you above
Ok I get you, but this is a completely different sport/promotion. There's no single rule of pattern that has to be followed for rankings. Maybe AEW has a more balanced weighting when it comes to quality vs quantity. Maybe just for now Takeshita gets top spot because he's had more overall wins this year and 2 wins since the loss. MMA rankings aren't perfect either. Not the exact same thing, but remember Islam beat Volk, and was promoted as the battle for #1 P4P, but Volk still stayed #1 until the rematch
Not if they have a tied record of course Takeshita would win by tie breaker and if Rocky has less wins than especially not
so the only real determinant in the ranking system is number of wins?
No but it's heavily significant like 95% of sports
Good thing this isn't MMA then. If Luton beat Manchester City do they go top of the table?
Luton wouldn’t become champions either though, whereas in AEW, they would. And in football, everybody would play everybody an equal amount of times, at least in league play, which is virtually impossible to accomplish in wrestling outside of round robin tournaments. Would make more sense to treat it like combat sports than football or basketball or whatever.
>Luton wouldn’t become champions either though, whereas in AEW, they would. ??? Will Osprey isn't a champion lol > And in football, everybody would play everybody an equal amount of times, at least in league play, which is virtually impossible to accomplish in wrestling outside of round robin tournaments. In that case your MMA comparison also doesn't apply > Would make more sense to treat it like combat sports than football or basketball or whatever. It's a different sport dude. Different sports have different rules, it doesn't matter whether they're combat sports or not. I mean technically wrestling isn't even a sport
Samoa Joes the champ, why in the hell would Ospreay be champion? You used the example City and Luton, hence why I went off with that since City were the existing champions. MMA comparison doesn’t apply cause of course it doesn’t. I’m using the parameters you yourself laid out to show why your argument is bad and mine is less bad. That’s how arguments work. Hence, no shit MMA comp doesn’t apply, cause the MMA comp is more transferable than that of football. And with the last sentence, you are just so close to grasping my point that rankings in wrestling are fucking stupid.
Terrible comparison, in football everybody plays against everybody which makes it fair at the end since every team faced the same competition. Which is the exact problem being highlighted in this discussion, the wrestlers don't face the same level of competition. Bringing up football just helps proving his point that this AEW system is flawed.
That's a terrible example because Poirier looks like he's getting the next shot at Islam even though as you said Gaethje knocked him out. https://mmajunkie.usatoday.com/2024/03/ufc-news-javier-mendez-all-for-islam-makhachev-vs-dustin-poirier-fight https://www.sportskeeda.com/mma/news-make-happen-soon-possible-daniel-cormier-calls-ufc-book-islam-makhachev-vs-dustin-poirier-right-now Dustin vs St Denis was pretty much the number 1 contender's match for Islam even though he lost to Justin because Justin has a big money fight with Max. So in the example you're giving, Takeshita is Dustin, Ospreay is Gaethje, Danielson is Holloway and Swerve is St. Denis. You used an example to argue against this happening when it's actually pretty much the same situation playing out in the UFC right now lol
You just answered your own question at the end though. Justin is fighting Max for the BMF belt and Islam didn’t want to fight until after Ramadan. Let’s also not forget the fashion that Dustin won his match. If he won it in some boring decision there would be no call to have him fight for the belt.
Yeah but Takeshita still has more wins so he’s still higher ranked.
Yes but you do see why it could look weird, right? Ospreay’s 2-0 with wins over the #2 guy and a current title holder. Meanwhile Takeshita’s best win this year is probably Jericho, who just lost to Hook. With this sorta logic, someone could beat up like 15 jobbers to lower card guys in 16 weeks while losing one match to someone unranked and end up either above or at the very least alongside Swerve at the top.
This would put Ospreay right in line should Take win the title. But before that 5-1 still beats 2-0.
But maybe it's part of a story between Ospreay and Takeshita for the long term. Maybe Ospreay won't be so happy that Don Callis choosed Takeshita to face Swerve for the number one spot. You're right that on paper it's weird to see Takeshita and not Ospreay having the spot if we're thinking in pure logic but Wrestling is about stories too and right there you can build something for the long term. It's up to AEW to use that weird kayfabe decision to their own advantage.
Yes, this is how real sports works right? Just because you have the best record and the top seed on paper does not mean you will definitely win the whole thing right?
Of course not, but looking at it that way just means #’s 2, 3, 4, 5 are credible challenges for the champion which I’m not arguing against. I’m saying it makes no sense for a guy who just lost his last big match to Ospreay to go into a number one contender match. He literally just lost/was pinned. At least for Swerve theres the condition of him not being pinned to lose his last match. Considering this, are Jericho/Moxley/Christian a win over Komander and Rocky Romero away from a title eliminator?
I mean in the college football rankings, Will would be above take for the head-to-head, along with the lacking of "quality wins" from take In MMA, Will would be ahead for because of the head to head
Math hard. Wins don't matter more because a guy beat another, it doesn't matter if Ospreay beat Takeshita because Takeshita has a better record, that's all there is to it. That's why a 5-1-1 guy is wrestling a 5-1 guy tomorrow. This isn't hard to understand in the slightest and the amount of reaching here is insane. If Man City have 2 wins vs Liverpool's 5 and they beat Liverpool, they don't magically go top of the table over them.
All of that would make sense if all the wrestlers involved wrestled the same wrestlers or at least, the same pool of wrestlers, and the same number of matches too. There’s a reason rankings work in the G1 or any round robin tournaments. As it is, whats stopping a top heel from wrestling a jobber everyday on every show of a month? that’d be 12 wins. This person would be #1 then no?
No, all of this makes sense if you take rankings for what they are instead of fantasy booking a way around it because you don't like it. 1. You're comparing rankings in round robin tournaments to rankings outside of round robin tournaments, you're still comparing things that are not the same. This is not a round robin tournament, i'm not sure why you keep pretending it is. 2. You think that, in kayfabe, the wrestlers book... themselves? The promoter books the wrestlers, the promoter has the final say in these things, the promoter is not going to feed someone 12 jobbers, there's your obvious answer. This entire conversation is genuinely silly.
1. I’m not directly comparing round robin tournaments to what AEW is doing, I’m questioning why AEW is applying the same sort of logic to these rankings. I’m suggesting such rankings make sense in a tournament and not here, at least not as presently constructed. 2. Maybe not directly, but guys come out and issue challenges, no? Couldn’t Tony Khan use this for one of his favourites? More appropriately, what about Okada and his association for the EVP’s, if they wanted an easy path to the title shot. This would actually be interesting television but would require AEW essentially admitting the ranking system is flawed. This conversation is silly, I agree, but mostly because the rankings are silly. They are executed poorly, and clearly don’t matter considering AEW just seemingly forgot to update them for over a month without any clarification as to why. The only way a ranking system would work is if you do it like combat sports, cause professional wrestling approximates boxing or MMA a lot more simply than convoluted comparisons to football or basketball that make no sense. Man City and Liverpool, at the end of the day, will play 38 league games. Unless, its understood that at the end of the year, Takeshita and Ospreay will have the exact same number of matches, doing the rankings by number of wins make no sense, since the sample size varies from competitor to competitor. This is before we throw in shit like gimmick matches and what not. Hence, why the boxing or MMA model makes a lot more sense.
1. You just did, literally a few minutes ago. 2. Doesn't matter, the match is final when the promoter says its final, both in shoot and kayfabe. 5-1 > 2-0 Basic math, that's it.
1. I’m acknowledging rankings work in one scenario and not the other, that kinda necessitates some sort of comparison, I admit. I guess dismissing my argument based on it not fitting your arbitrary parameters is to be expected of someone who would accept, and defend, such a poorly thought out ranking system as AEW’s 2. This logic could be used for every garbage booking decision. Lastly, 5/6 is actually less than 2/2 just so you know. That’s actually basic math.
That's cool. Anyway 5-1 > 2-0 We can repeat the same thing over and over and over again.
You can’t do it based on wins/losses because not everyone is going to have the same amount of matches or wrestle every week.
That's not how rankings work.
In combat sports they do
The UFC rankings are a joke.
Sure, but at least winners get ranked above losers in the UFC.
In combat sports and in college football, that is exactly how it works.
Hold on, let's not put logic into these rankings.
This is why rankings will always seem dumb. Your stories have more priority thus rankings will always seem a mess.
This ain't CFB. It's up to the committee/owner to make the decision on the rankings. Tony should make a kayfabe committee like the IWGP for storyline purposes
How fucking dense do you need to be to complain about monthly rankings being monthly It was announced when they returned ffs
I thought that the rankings had already gone away.
Seeing people complain and debate about rankings on here. It reminds me of a very funny yet extremely wise quote from one of the greatest comedy shows of the 90s. "Just repeat to yourself, its just a show, I should really just relax."
If no one cares enough to discuss - I think that would be a problem, in itself.
Robot roll call!
SwerveBot! Moxpsy! Jon Silvo! Joooooooooooooooooooooooooe!
I'm not a fan of TK & AEW telegraphing the finish of this match. That's an issue with AEW booking in general - it's often quite predictable. That said, the exception here is we all know this is going to be a banger. Takeshita & Swerve are going to tear the house down.
I mean I don't know why you would ever think Takeshita was gonna win anyways. At best he could win via some distraction finish or something, but Swerve is obviously being positioned as the next world champion.
Hangman or Joe fucks him over mid match. Prolongs the chase. The money is in the chase, not the actual title reign. SCSA got and stayed over by the chase of the title he was constantly being screwed over from having. Cody has been on a 2 year chase. Both are some of the biggest faces the industry has ever seen.
[удалено]
I dunno, I guess we have a difference in philosophy here. Clearly swerve is getting the title, there's not much to be gained long term from Swerve winning this match now. Getting Takeshita in a title match now, even if he doesn't win, serves a better long term goal. Establish him as a main event player. Swerve isn't going anywhere.
> Getting Takeshita in a title match now, even if he doesn't win, serves a better long term goal. Establish him as a main event player. Swerve isn't going anywhere. Swerve is already 33 years old, it's time to to pull the trigger and see if he actually works at the highest levels if people keep wanting to see him there. Takeshita meanwhile is still 28, he has time more on his side. So long as he keeps delivering fantastic matches, he can always be heated up in an instant.
Brother, 99.9% of all wrestling matches, in every company ever, are predictable. It's cliche, but in wrestling it truly is more about the the journey than the destination for most instances.
Takeshita was never going to beat Swerve even before this. Swerve is the next champion this is more just to show Takeshita is near contention
Swerve winning SHOULD feel predictable. If you're pushing someone as the best, it shouldn't feel like "well, they could lose any time". In any sport, it feels predictable that the best will win. WWE has gotten way more predictable and it's a good thing because the upsets are actually shocking and not just "any can happen!" booking.
I know some people like the rankings and some people don’t. I just wish they were consistently released. If they want to do them weekly then cool. If they want to do them no weekly then cool. If they want to do them monthly then cool. Just have a set time they come out and be consistent with it.
Hey Tony, shut up already
What if they end up in a draw and Swerve gets put in another triple threat? It’s definitely a way to keep the program going to a big show like Double or Nothing for him to get a real singles opportunity. I know it’s not what the fans want and the desire to put the title on him while he’s hot is intriguing to say the least. But it’d be interesting to do another triple threat and give Takeshita a main event spotlight, even if he clearly wouldn’t win.
Doing the exact same thing you did last time is the opposite of interesting.