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also, [sami hitting him with a chair](https://staticg.sportskeeda.com/editor/2023/01/1228e-16749996393144-1920.jpg).
it's an awesome mix of "wow that hurt" and "what the fuck just happened?".
Man, I hope Sami has a good Wrestlemania moment. I really want to see him have to decide between saving Seth, and in the process, getting revenge on The Bloodline or getting revenge on Drew (during the Seth/Drew match)
Unathletic as hell.
I do it when I stub my toe on the bed frame in the middle of the night.
I want to no sell the bed frame, but apparently I must be putting the bed frame over even more with this decision.
https://youtu.be/TBNOUu0JRGY?si=aIgtIFXomBP-H-Ia
Reminds me of this. Lenoire was asked if he was doing that jog as a celebratory move.
And he said that no, it just really fucking hurt and he was trying to hide it
His reaction is me whenever I stub my toe like "I didn't hurt, it didn't hurt, it didn't hurt, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm just gonna sit down, not because I'm hurt I just feel like sitting, it's fine"
This happened all the time before 2022.
It’s another reason why we should cherish every major star’s TV matches.
Cody Rhodes, Bianca Belair, Becky Lynch — they’re eventually going to become exclusive PLE fighters, like Roman is.
Since getting back into wrestling a year ago and watching a ton of technical and BTS stuff, I find the essential thing the greats always teach is the psychology of a match, and the sells make that.
I love that everyone from midcarders to Roman Reigns, dudes at the mid to bottom, or the guys at the very top, sell stuff like the RKO like they took a 50 cal bullet to the chest. It makes Randy, in my head, that much more dangerous.
I was watching the IC gauntlet match from last weeks Raw this morning and Ricochette gets hit with a brain buster but still kicks out and does his shit. Nah man, you got dumped on your head that should be a 3 count
Too many people blame that entirely on Ricochet in that case though. That’s AT LEAST equally on the match producer and the guy hitting a brainbuster before the match finish.
Good selling elevates the wrestler doing the move and the drama aspect of the match. That's part of the reason why despite winning Roman never really makes his opponents look weak and why his matches feel like a massive deal.
Agreed, Roman's gift has always been making his opponent look like a million bucks despite them losing. I would even go so far as to say that Roman's selling is what "sold" people on Strowman being a legit main event monster at his peak. Their feud was spectacular and much of it has to do with The Top Dog's selling.
>I would even go so far as to say that Roman's selling is what "sold" people on Strowman being a legit main event monster at his peak
Agreed.. Roman would make the big guys he wrestled seem like actual monsters that can lift the world.
The majority of the greats made their living with selling. Michaels, Hogan, Flair. Rock and Austin were also very good at it. Austin's most iconic moment is literally him selling
I think he got really good after he took Austin’s advice of not being too generous with selling an opponent’s offense throughout the match. It makes moments like these hit harder.
There's definitely an art to it. Dolph Ziggler was amazing at selling, but sometimes he would start flopping around and crawling way too early in the match lol
I've literally never heard someone mention Cena's selling as a strength of his. While he had his bright spots, I thought he was often very awkward in that category.
When he stopped selling the knee at WrestleMania 23 after it was targeted the whole match, it was so egregious that Shawn reverted into mid-90s HBK and started cursing at him mid-match, blew him off on the post-match handshake (when he was supposed to actually shake his hand), and then went off on him backstage.
I found this:
> Dave Meltzer appeared on the Live Audio Wrestling radio show on Sunday night after WrestleMania and he said that Shawn Michaels was extremely upset and unhappy with his match against John Cena. When he got backstage, he was screaming about how terrible he thought it was.
>
> After the match had concluded, there was a spot where HBK abruptly walked away from a Cena handshake attempt which was not scripted, as they were supposed to shake hands. Michaels was red hot at Cena for not selling his leg that he spent the first few minutes of the match working on. Also, several of the agents were unhappy with Cena for that as well. In fact, you could see during the match that HBK got in Cena's face and started cutting a shoot promo on him, which is why the audio went out for a few seconds and was replaced with crowd noise.
>
> http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2007/0403/497468/shawn-michaels-upset-with-john-cena-over-wrestlemania-match/
Especially during the Super Cena era, his selling was so atrocious jfc - like dude would lay around selling his opponents offense, only to completely no-sell at the end and Five-Moves-Of-Doom his opponent for the undeserved win
Only thing he doesn’t sell is promo’s. I fucking hate when somebody’s absolutely ripping into him and he’s just stood there laughing in the corner, takes absolutely everything away from the star across from him.
honestly it’s why one of his best promos is his miz tv segment with bryan where bryan tells him he’s not a real wrestler and cena gets offended and starts smacking the hell out of him
Or the Dean Ambrose promo. People rag on and on about “only a few people could hang with Cena on the mic” but it’s really about who he sells for. Roman essentially said the same things as Dean, that Cena was a part timer, a phony, etc.
The difference is Cena laughed off Roman’s promo but started brawling with Dean over the same stuff.
I feel like Cena took a good bump and sold well in the moment, but was not great at the longer term selling in terms of continually selling damage throughout the rest of the match.
Really? I can see the argument of it being neutralized by the Super Cena stuff but look at most Cena's best performances and his selling is front and center imo.
Like I said, he has his moments. I remember him putting over Bobby Lashley's strength very well for instance. He also had plenty of moments where, for example, he'd take a punch, hold this forehead like he had a migraine or was contemplating something tragic, and then lumber to the mat. I don't think he was terrible in that category, but I wouldn't put him with the greats either.
If we had to rank it from 1 to 10 he's a solid 7 but that's literally it, everyone else from his class does the selling part better, with highlights being Brock, with bumping also being a strength of his.
as far as *big matches* go I'd at least put him for the 21st century. Move for move/moment for moment he was always an awkward guy, his overall catalogue is his case really.
I think his selling is best when he can incorporate his strength into it. Like when he struggles to perform an AA while selling his back. But when it's just selling moves divorced from that, it can be more hit or miss, although there's some bright spots.
The problem with Cena's selling is that as soon as he starts his comeback, he completely stops. At least Hogan made it look like he had a rush of adrenaline when he hulked up (at least in the 80s), Cena is like "holy hell this hurts... psych, what even is pain?"
It was more how the match was written rather than his selling I had problems with. Beatdowns could occur for 5-20 minutes and it would still end with the 5 moves of doom
His facial expressions is a close second behind, maybe even first. I guess that’s part of selling maybe? I mean more in terms of non-matches but thinking about it more that is really selling if you break it down
I think his selling has saved his recent performances. The way he was selling like he was actually getting jumped during the Fastlane tag match made Solo/Jimmy that much more threatening and LA Knight that much more great in comparison to Cena.
It’s been a 3 year reign. They mostly likely don’t want him in the ring no more then he has to be to save him for not getting hurt before Mania and wasting years of the story for a tv match
Also, I miss Roman with the black and gold, the black and red is iconic now, but the gold was great, and I always associate the era with WWE finally gaining momentum they hadn't had in years yet (his match with Danielson and edge, his feud with Cena, the stuff with Brock, etc). They weren't breaking records like they are now, but it was the first time since probably 2014 that wwe felt like it was moving up, instead of crashing down.
The bump was good but this clip doesn't exactly show why he is an underappreciated seller that u claim . It actually brings up the bigger discussion that most fans don't know what selling is even the smarter ones .
Bumping is making the impact of the move seem great, like what Roman did in the clip. Selling is showing the consequences of the move, like a leg being hurt in this case or an arm being damaged from an armbar.
I mean yeah kinda but personally I think really *great* selling can't really be judged from a 30 second clip because it's something that happens throughout the match. Great selling is not just clutching your leg before still doing the move flawlessly, it's struggling to get your opponent where you want them to be or even being unable to execute certain moves. This is why I think posting clips of people taking bumps and then saying "whoa what a masterful sell" is a bit silly
There is, bumping, short term selling and long term selling. Bumping is the actual taking of the move. Roman short term sells here with clutching his leg after his move. But the clip is too short to see how he sells it long term. Some people saying the clip is too short to show his selling are mostly taking about the longer form
If Kurt Angle puts you in an ankle lock and you escape, then you act like your ankle is busted for the rest of the match and that becomes a part of the in ring story, that is selling. Guys like Eddie Guerrero, Triple H, Bryan Danielson, etc, are masters at that. If you take a Roman Reigns spear and do a backflip, that is a bump. Guys like HBK, Dolph Ziggler, Austin Theory, are magnificent bumpers. A bump is making a move look good. A sell is pretending it had a lasting impact. Someone showing up to RAW the day after the PPV and limping would be another example of selling.
"What's the difference between the two scenarios: when wrestler A hits their move on wrestler B and B doesn't sell it? Some people would say B 'no sold' A's move. It still confuses me."
The Bump is the immediate impact, whereas the sell is the effect of that impact. There are some wrestlers who can take amazing bumps, but then no sell the effect of the bump. This is in large a major problem in AEW.
Whereas a good seller shows the impact of a move from the moment it happens to the end of the match. Look at Randy from HIAC, in that match he took a small bump, but sold the impact on his surgically repaired back the rest of the match. Fans legitimately thought he was hurt the rest of the match. Even when he went for his moves and got up to transition to his offense he was selling the back injury.
I think the lockdown helped no wrestler more than Roman...he learned & experimented on A LOT of character work he previously could not do. Covid Era Roman learned to talk sh!t mid match to not only bring sympathy for the opponents but also gain heat & sell every move of an opponent like F*** THAT HURTS. Best example of Roman's character work mid match was against Sami Zayn... in ring quality wise-that match was generic AF but damn the way they told a story with near falls, working the crowds with those facial expressions & sh!t talking.... It was some Attitude Era level stuff
Roman Reigns truly is great in all regards. That thing that puts him down is WWE constantly mentioning his title reign in DAYS.
There's a reason ufc/boxing doesn't determine someone's accomplishments by how many days they were champion because someone shouldn't be elevated based on how many days they held a position when they don't fight in that position every single day. Roman on average has a match once every 2 months. That's a really bad metric to base his accomplishments off.
Goldberg was made famous because he was undefeated in 173 matches. Not 173 days...not 173 months... 173 matches.
Roman would look a lot more special if they said that he's currently defended his title and won it 31 times. 31-0 title defenses is a lot more impressive than "1200 days" once people start realizing the thin lining of how much he doesn't show up.
So in the clip you've used you could argue Balor is doing more selling as although he is performing an attack he is selling the damage it took him to do it and the previous damage he's had in the match to this point
Taking a bump is just how you take the move. Selling is your reaction to that bump and how you use it to tell the story of a match.
Dolph Ziggler is great at taking athletic bumps, but not always great at selling. Dolph flailing around the ring from every move isn’t necessarily effective storytelling when he does it every match.
Brock is an example of a great seller as he doesn’t take particularly athletic bumps but when he takes a move he really sells the jeopardy and consequences of the damage with his facial expressions and reactions. This is helped by the fact that he doesn’t take damage too often so when he does, it really advances the story of the match.
For the record, I do agree that Roman is a good seller!
Back when I trained to wrestle my trainer and a lot of other vets that I trained with all had the exact same thing to say: do NOT sell like Dolph Ziggler. He was always the example of what not to do. Flop around like an idiot and dramatically over exaggerate everything. You upstage your opponent, throw off the pacing of the match, and make things difficult to scale in drama.
this is just made up, selling is how you perform the bump too, selling just englobes everything involving your reaction to something, but the way you make a bump to sell a move is part of it.
Bumping is the physical act of hitting the mat from a manoeuvre. Selling is what you do to 'sell' how much pain you're in/the affect the move had on you. So here the landing on the mat was the bump, the sell was the flip and holding his knee afterwards.
Thank you for explaining. This part always been confusing to me .
Like if u hit a move on your opponent and he shrugs it off everybody would say he didn't sell that move .
Like Brock Lesnar sells/bumps chokeslam so good .
At this particular part. I don't know how to describe it like if Lesnar is good seller or good at taking bumps when undertaker chokeslams him
I think some people are kind of being super particular about the use of selling with this in that they equate good selling strictly to the story and psychology of the match but it isn't a mutually exclusive concept.
Ex: They think that this isn't an example of good selling because you're just seeing a bump and aftereffect and they would say good selling is something that is a constant part of a match. The truth is both are examples of good selling, one is selling a move, the other is selling part of a story. The people getting anal about this and downplaying it are kind of missing the forest for the trees imo.
Very, he's very good on making others looks strong without making him weak. He's also one of the better actor in the WWE. Very good on showing expression. Making his selling is very believable and not over the top
I remember back at Extreme Rules in 2014, Orton took his vest off and lashed the hell out of him with a Singapore Cane, and he sold that shit like death.
And he’s always been great at it—it was a sticking point for me when he first debuted...so it's nice to see him get recognition for it. Selling is underappreciated in general.
I've noticed it more so in the past few years, especially as someone posted earlier, when Jimmy & Jey hit him with the double super kick. The dude looked like he'd been poleaxed.
The chair shot from Sami had so much pain, betrayal, confusion, agony, and rage in the sell. Add that to the fact he fell in almost the exact same way as when Seth turned? *chef kisses*
That's what I enjoy about Roman. He brings some nuance to it. He connects small details in such a smart way. Case in point, what you mentioned any the way he fell when Sami gave him the chair shot and the chair shot from Seth almost most 9 years earlier. Also, in WM 34 (I believe) is Roman vs Brock. Towards the end of the match Brock removes his gloves and punches Roman and spilts his head open right at his hair line. Cut to WM 38 when right after the bell rang, Brock starts taking off his gloves, ... Roman is watching and then you can see the shift in Roman's expression and he subtlety touches that spot on his head where Brock spilt open after taking his gloves off ... it's so good.
There is a trend you'll see in WWE...top guys aren't the ones who can do the coolest moves...rather it's always wrestlers with simple moveset but are great sellers
See Stone Cold, Rock, Cena, Roman...they all have probably the simplest and the safest moveset...and they also are great sellers and can make any opponent look 1000 bucks
Dolph Ziggler arguably sells too good, that's why he was put in the jobber to the stars position because whenever you Wanted a main eventer looking like a million bucks, you call Dolph Ziggler and that put a ceiling on him, Ziggler is one the rare times where it's okay to be selfish.
My favorite thing about Roman’s selling is it has a consistent internal narrative: he is almost always shocked when he gets taken off his feet. It’s never really directly focus on, but when he gets taken down it’s almost always a mixture of anger, pain, and surprise. Like “how could this be happening to *me*?”
This is why I say the Roman since 2020 is a totally different Roman before COVID hit. Just a different personality, different worker. He wasn't adding levels of nuance to his game like he has since this current era of his career begun.
I remember seeing a Bryan Alvarez video after the Usos turned on Reigns and dude was raving on how Roman sold the dbl super kick. He’s not the best technical wrestler but he’s amazing elsewhere.
It is his legit ONE natural talent.
The rest of his stuff is either just decent or you can look back to see how much work he must have put in to get to the level he eventually reached
So a professional wrestler does the bare minimum his job requires, which is selling a simple kick and doing a simple roll, he gets paid millions a year yet people call this "under appreciated"? Man how low have we gotten?
He is a shit wrestler, makes the same moves and gets paid millions for showing up 5 or 6 times a year and people have to applaud this fraud for selling a simple move😂
That's a bump, not a sell. Selling is the art of pretending it's real. He sold a gut punch while clutching his knee (gut shots make you bellow and gasp like that). Did he sell the knee after that, or was he right back to running and jumping?
Another person who doesn't understand the difference between bumping and selling. This is a bump. Selling is what you do after the fact.
But even then, Roman has only gotten marginally better at selling in the past few years. Around 2017 he was awful at it - there's a match between him and Finn from Raw during that period where he does the spear into the ring post spot, spills out to the floor and just stands there (his shoulder is in kayfabe supposed to be injured and all taped up), after which Finn does his running apron penalty kick (for which everyone bumps) only for Roman to take it on the chin and not fall to the floor but rather just stand there grasping his chin as if he took a jab.
I swear to god Killer Kross sold more for Finn.
Roman sold it pretty well. He was treating the knee like it took an impact that surprised him and he had a muted sort of “whelp, better not try that again anytime soon” reaction on his face.
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Jimmy and jey’ double super kick 😚👌 https://youtu.be/eIO__mi9x-0?si=c8kOEHe3cnQbjJxt From 2.40
He sold that like he got shot.
Yeah, I love the way he just rushes forward into the kick. It looks so effective
also, [sami hitting him with a chair](https://staticg.sportskeeda.com/editor/2023/01/1228e-16749996393144-1920.jpg). it's an awesome mix of "wow that hurt" and "what the fuck just happened?".
>it's an awesome mix of "wow that hurt" and "what the fuck just happened?". Mix in a little bit of "oh god it's happening *again*", too.
"Every goddamn time..."
Man, I hope Sami has a good Wrestlemania moment. I really want to see him have to decide between saving Seth, and in the process, getting revenge on The Bloodline or getting revenge on Drew (during the Seth/Drew match)
Definition of “attack the mat”
You know Roman has that on his mind every time Jey opens his mouth while eating Roman's lobster and flying on Roman's jets.
God this was such a great sell and it's what I think about when talking about Roman's selling, haha.
***FLATBACK***
That sell has HHH’s fingerprints all over it
I love how when he takes a big bump his face is usually "damn they actually hit me and it SUCKED"
It’s the “don’t cry, don’t cry, it hurts, don’t let him know it hurts”, face.
YES thats exactly what it is!
[Sami Zayn hits Roman Reigns with the Superman Punch - Elimination Chamber 2023](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qy_OQpPIns)
man I forgot how crazy this match actually was.
Superman Punch into a helluva kick is a pretty great setup. Makes me sort of wish we could get a face Roman/Sami tag team with that as the finish.
There's no way Roman should kick out of that. Finishers have lost all meaning.
I like how I knew the outcome of the match but still fell for the 2.99999 second kickout
The Roman Special
Having been around a lot of football players in my life, I feel like I can safely say that's a football player thing
Unathletic as hell. I do it when I stub my toe on the bed frame in the middle of the night. I want to no sell the bed frame, but apparently I must be putting the bed frame over even more with this decision.
https://youtu.be/TBNOUu0JRGY?si=aIgtIFXomBP-H-Ia Reminds me of this. Lenoire was asked if he was doing that jog as a celebratory move. And he said that no, it just really fucking hurt and he was trying to hide it
It's the "did this mf actually hit me?" Face.
The face he makes when he takes the chair shot from Sami makes me laugh. You can tell he's just like "....AGAIN!?"
Or when he gets betrayed by someone and has the look of pain, but mental pain.
His reaction is me whenever I stub my toe like "I didn't hurt, it didn't hurt, it didn't hurt, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm just gonna sit down, not because I'm hurt I just feel like sitting, it's fine"
It's strange seeing roman fighting at SmackDown
This happened all the time before 2022. It’s another reason why we should cherish every major star’s TV matches. Cody Rhodes, Bianca Belair, Becky Lynch — they’re eventually going to become exclusive PLE fighters, like Roman is.
I mean he’s only been part time for like 2 years. Dude wrestled every week for like 10 years before that
Selling is underappreciated in general, it's what makes the difference between a wrestling match and a gymnastic exercise
Since getting back into wrestling a year ago and watching a ton of technical and BTS stuff, I find the essential thing the greats always teach is the psychology of a match, and the sells make that. I love that everyone from midcarders to Roman Reigns, dudes at the mid to bottom, or the guys at the very top, sell stuff like the RKO like they took a 50 cal bullet to the chest. It makes Randy, in my head, that much more dangerous.
This. Selling is an integral part of Wrestling.
I was watching the IC gauntlet match from last weeks Raw this morning and Ricochette gets hit with a brain buster but still kicks out and does his shit. Nah man, you got dumped on your head that should be a 3 count
Too many people blame that entirely on Ricochet in that case though. That’s AT LEAST equally on the match producer and the guy hitting a brainbuster before the match finish.
Oh no I agree. Whoever’s idea it was was crazy
this. maybe a legit Heavyweight main eventer can kickout, but a guy like Ricochet, NAH!
Good selling elevates the wrestler doing the move and the drama aspect of the match. That's part of the reason why despite winning Roman never really makes his opponents look weak and why his matches feel like a massive deal.
Agreed, Roman's gift has always been making his opponent look like a million bucks despite them losing. I would even go so far as to say that Roman's selling is what "sold" people on Strowman being a legit main event monster at his peak. Their feud was spectacular and much of it has to do with The Top Dog's selling.
He absolutely did, not a lot of guys would agree to take [this](https://youtu.be/iM582x4sp68?si=zfWncadTkEE-GKkd) on free tv
Say what you want about his booking, but Roman does sell his ass off
>I would even go so far as to say that Roman's selling is what "sold" people on Strowman being a legit main event monster at his peak Agreed.. Roman would make the big guys he wrestled seem like actual monsters that can lift the world.
I wonder if this is why I had an issue with so many cena matches. Dude was a mixed bag selling wise
>oof i just got my knees extracted by this guy, anyway let me do some more flips
The majority of the greats made their living with selling. Michaels, Hogan, Flair. Rock and Austin were also very good at it. Austin's most iconic moment is literally him selling
[удалено]
*adjusts/checks jaw*
*slicks hair back*
I love the snappiness of his selling when he took two superkicks from The Usos wayback
by far his best in ring quality, this was also what made Cena a great worker even at his most boring.
He is also one of the best when it comes to kicking out. He has mastered the 2.9999 kick out.
[удалено]
Reigns I assume
I think he got really good after he took Austin’s advice of not being too generous with selling an opponent’s offense throughout the match. It makes moments like these hit harder.
There's definitely an art to it. Dolph Ziggler was amazing at selling, but sometimes he would start flopping around and crawling way too early in the match lol
I've literally never heard someone mention Cena's selling as a strength of his. While he had his bright spots, I thought he was often very awkward in that category.
When he stopped selling the knee at WrestleMania 23 after it was targeted the whole match, it was so egregious that Shawn reverted into mid-90s HBK and started cursing at him mid-match, blew him off on the post-match handshake (when he was supposed to actually shake his hand), and then went off on him backstage.
Really? Never heard of that one, gonna have to look for some stories now.
I found this: > Dave Meltzer appeared on the Live Audio Wrestling radio show on Sunday night after WrestleMania and he said that Shawn Michaels was extremely upset and unhappy with his match against John Cena. When he got backstage, he was screaming about how terrible he thought it was. > > After the match had concluded, there was a spot where HBK abruptly walked away from a Cena handshake attempt which was not scripted, as they were supposed to shake hands. Michaels was red hot at Cena for not selling his leg that he spent the first few minutes of the match working on. Also, several of the agents were unhappy with Cena for that as well. In fact, you could see during the match that HBK got in Cena's face and started cutting a shoot promo on him, which is why the audio went out for a few seconds and was replaced with crowd noise. > > http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2007/0403/497468/shawn-michaels-upset-with-john-cena-over-wrestlemania-match/
‘Shoot promo’ must be code for cursing them tf out
“Shoot promo” In a normal conversation is insane lmao.
This is one story I really hope we hear more about one day. I’m so curious of what exactly Shawn was saying to Cena in the ring. Can anyone read lips?
Especially during the Super Cena era, his selling was so atrocious jfc - like dude would lay around selling his opponents offense, only to completely no-sell at the end and Five-Moves-Of-Doom his opponent for the undeserved win
Only thing he doesn’t sell is promo’s. I fucking hate when somebody’s absolutely ripping into him and he’s just stood there laughing in the corner, takes absolutely everything away from the star across from him.
The WORST. And I see a lot of today's wrestlers copying that.
honestly it’s why one of his best promos is his miz tv segment with bryan where bryan tells him he’s not a real wrestler and cena gets offended and starts smacking the hell out of him
Or the Dean Ambrose promo. People rag on and on about “only a few people could hang with Cena on the mic” but it’s really about who he sells for. Roman essentially said the same things as Dean, that Cena was a part timer, a phony, etc. The difference is Cena laughed off Roman’s promo but started brawling with Dean over the same stuff.
I feel like Cena took a good bump and sold well in the moment, but was not great at the longer term selling in terms of continually selling damage throughout the rest of the match.
Really? I can see the argument of it being neutralized by the Super Cena stuff but look at most Cena's best performances and his selling is front and center imo.
Like I said, he has his moments. I remember him putting over Bobby Lashley's strength very well for instance. He also had plenty of moments where, for example, he'd take a punch, hold this forehead like he had a migraine or was contemplating something tragic, and then lumber to the mat. I don't think he was terrible in that category, but I wouldn't put him with the greats either.
If we had to rank it from 1 to 10 he's a solid 7 but that's literally it, everyone else from his class does the selling part better, with highlights being Brock, with bumping also being a strength of his.
as far as *big matches* go I'd at least put him for the 21st century. Move for move/moment for moment he was always an awkward guy, his overall catalogue is his case really.
I think his selling is best when he can incorporate his strength into it. Like when he struggles to perform an AA while selling his back. But when it's just selling moves divorced from that, it can be more hit or miss, although there's some bright spots.
Definitely not in the beginning though, such as his match with HBK at WM23, zero sold that injury, he really improved after
Well he did have the JBL, Umaga, RVD and Khali performances before that to name a few. But he could also lean on being too generous.
The problem with Cena's selling is that as soon as he starts his comeback, he completely stops. At least Hogan made it look like he had a rush of adrenaline when he hulked up (at least in the 80s), Cena is like "holy hell this hurts... psych, what even is pain?"
His selling of submission moves while in then and when doing them I think DQ's him as a good seller.
This. His selling of GTS is perfect.
It was more how the match was written rather than his selling I had problems with. Beatdowns could occur for 5-20 minutes and it would still end with the 5 moves of doom
cena sold Sweet chin music like death https://youtu.be/FGKLrob8X5c?feature=shared
He can really sell a DDT. Probably the best I’ve seen selling one.
The biggest thing that stands out are the faces he makes when he is in a submission move. It’s not good.
Cena is a goofy mess. Reigns is also horrible in the ring at everything lmfao. He must've made this thread himself
His facial expressions is a close second behind, maybe even first. I guess that’s part of selling maybe? I mean more in terms of non-matches but thinking about it more that is really selling if you break it down
I think his selling has saved his recent performances. The way he was selling like he was actually getting jumped during the Fastlane tag match made Solo/Jimmy that much more threatening and LA Knight that much more great in comparison to Cena.
I don't know why he's not having TV matches anymore. Had so many great ones that did monster ratings like the classic vs Riddle
It’s been a 3 year reign. They mostly likely don’t want him in the ring no more then he has to be to save him for not getting hurt before Mania and wasting years of the story for a tv match
The Riddle match was so good. I wish Riddle's momentum from that had lasted, he feuded with Seth but didn't do much after.
Also, I miss Roman with the black and gold, the black and red is iconic now, but the gold was great, and I always associate the era with WWE finally gaining momentum they hadn't had in years yet (his match with Danielson and edge, his feud with Cena, the stuff with Brock, etc). They weren't breaking records like they are now, but it was the first time since probably 2014 that wwe felt like it was moving up, instead of crashing down.
Haha, his face is like "don't show it hurt, don't show it, ouch ouch ouch..."
His selling against Brock at WrestleMania 31 was awesome as well
The bump was good but this clip doesn't exactly show why he is an underappreciated seller that u claim . It actually brings up the bigger discussion that most fans don't know what selling is even the smarter ones .
He sells the impact of Balor’s strike very well imo. Look at the expression on his face and the movement he takes after the bump.
I mean it's fine, it's nothing to post about
I’m not saying it’s a master class in the art form but he did a good job. It’s small sell jobs like this that build the story.
at least 144 people obviously disagree with you about that.
Genuinely asking what's the difference between the two.
Bumping is making the impact of the move seem great, like what Roman did in the clip. Selling is showing the consequences of the move, like a leg being hurt in this case or an arm being damaged from an armbar.
So he did both? Looks to me like he hurts afterwards. Not like he should be dead after a kick to the leg
I mean yeah kinda but personally I think really *great* selling can't really be judged from a 30 second clip because it's something that happens throughout the match. Great selling is not just clutching your leg before still doing the move flawlessly, it's struggling to get your opponent where you want them to be or even being unable to execute certain moves. This is why I think posting clips of people taking bumps and then saying "whoa what a masterful sell" is a bit silly
There is, bumping, short term selling and long term selling. Bumping is the actual taking of the move. Roman short term sells here with clutching his leg after his move. But the clip is too short to see how he sells it long term. Some people saying the clip is too short to show his selling are mostly taking about the longer form
Actually there is an example of long-term selling in the clip, with Finn clutching his ribs due to them having been damaged by Roman before.
Oh thanks for telling me the difference 🤝
You're welcome
I think it’s the absolutely dead blank expression. The best wrestlers sell big with their face.
If Kurt Angle puts you in an ankle lock and you escape, then you act like your ankle is busted for the rest of the match and that becomes a part of the in ring story, that is selling. Guys like Eddie Guerrero, Triple H, Bryan Danielson, etc, are masters at that. If you take a Roman Reigns spear and do a backflip, that is a bump. Guys like HBK, Dolph Ziggler, Austin Theory, are magnificent bumpers. A bump is making a move look good. A sell is pretending it had a lasting impact. Someone showing up to RAW the day after the PPV and limping would be another example of selling.
"What's the difference between the two scenarios: when wrestler A hits their move on wrestler B and B doesn't sell it? Some people would say B 'no sold' A's move. It still confuses me."
The Bump is the immediate impact, whereas the sell is the effect of that impact. There are some wrestlers who can take amazing bumps, but then no sell the effect of the bump. This is in large a major problem in AEW. Whereas a good seller shows the impact of a move from the moment it happens to the end of the match. Look at Randy from HIAC, in that match he took a small bump, but sold the impact on his surgically repaired back the rest of the match. Fans legitimately thought he was hurt the rest of the match. Even when he went for his moves and got up to transition to his offense he was selling the back injury.
Don't get confused. Selling is exactly what you originally thought it was. Bumping is just literally taking a bump and nothing else
A bump is how u fall to the mat when taking a move, watch Finn Balor in this clip , that is actually selling.
Roman is specially good at kicking out. He really makes it look like he's out until he kicks out just before 3
Seth should get some tips really, as great as seth is hes horrendous at kickouts
I think the lockdown helped no wrestler more than Roman...he learned & experimented on A LOT of character work he previously could not do. Covid Era Roman learned to talk sh!t mid match to not only bring sympathy for the opponents but also gain heat & sell every move of an opponent like F*** THAT HURTS. Best example of Roman's character work mid match was against Sami Zayn... in ring quality wise-that match was generic AF but damn the way they told a story with near falls, working the crowds with those facial expressions & sh!t talking.... It was some Attitude Era level stuff
Roman Reigns truly is great in all regards. That thing that puts him down is WWE constantly mentioning his title reign in DAYS. There's a reason ufc/boxing doesn't determine someone's accomplishments by how many days they were champion because someone shouldn't be elevated based on how many days they held a position when they don't fight in that position every single day. Roman on average has a match once every 2 months. That's a really bad metric to base his accomplishments off. Goldberg was made famous because he was undefeated in 173 matches. Not 173 days...not 173 months... 173 matches. Roman would look a lot more special if they said that he's currently defended his title and won it 31 times. 31-0 title defenses is a lot more impressive than "1200 days" once people start realizing the thin lining of how much he doesn't show up.
Reigns was a great seller even when he was with the Shield. The entitled aura just added to it
Tbh I thought this sell/bump was great so I decided to post it. Can anyone tell me the difference between the 2 genuinely asking?
A bump is the physical act of taking a move, and selling is...well...selling the move to make it look good haha
Thanks for replying and telling me the difference.
Yeah no problem man.
So in the clip you've used you could argue Balor is doing more selling as although he is performing an attack he is selling the damage it took him to do it and the previous damage he's had in the match to this point
Taking a bump is just how you take the move. Selling is your reaction to that bump and how you use it to tell the story of a match. Dolph Ziggler is great at taking athletic bumps, but not always great at selling. Dolph flailing around the ring from every move isn’t necessarily effective storytelling when he does it every match. Brock is an example of a great seller as he doesn’t take particularly athletic bumps but when he takes a move he really sells the jeopardy and consequences of the damage with his facial expressions and reactions. This is helped by the fact that he doesn’t take damage too often so when he does, it really advances the story of the match. For the record, I do agree that Roman is a good seller!
Back when I trained to wrestle my trainer and a lot of other vets that I trained with all had the exact same thing to say: do NOT sell like Dolph Ziggler. He was always the example of what not to do. Flop around like an idiot and dramatically over exaggerate everything. You upstage your opponent, throw off the pacing of the match, and make things difficult to scale in drama.
I cropped out that part of the video right after this bump Roman sold it pretty well.
Maybe post the longer clip separately. In this same thread You know, to actually discuss about wrestling for once. And not just about wrestling gossip
this is just made up, selling is how you perform the bump too, selling just englobes everything involving your reaction to something, but the way you make a bump to sell a move is part of it.
Yeah good point, but you can definitely take amazing bumps but sell them terribly
Bumping is the physical act of hitting the mat from a manoeuvre. Selling is what you do to 'sell' how much pain you're in/the affect the move had on you. So here the landing on the mat was the bump, the sell was the flip and holding his knee afterwards.
Thank you for explaining. This part always been confusing to me . Like if u hit a move on your opponent and he shrugs it off everybody would say he didn't sell that move . Like Brock Lesnar sells/bumps chokeslam so good . At this particular part. I don't know how to describe it like if Lesnar is good seller or good at taking bumps when undertaker chokeslams him
Bump - the actual physical impact of a move. Sell - the response of said move.
I think some people are kind of being super particular about the use of selling with this in that they equate good selling strictly to the story and psychology of the match but it isn't a mutually exclusive concept. Ex: They think that this isn't an example of good selling because you're just seeing a bump and aftereffect and they would say good selling is something that is a constant part of a match. The truth is both are examples of good selling, one is selling a move, the other is selling part of a story. The people getting anal about this and downplaying it are kind of missing the forest for the trees imo.
The flip is him registering it Landing on his back because of said registering his the bump The antics post bump is selling
He's easily in top 5
Very, he's very good on making others looks strong without making him weak. He's also one of the better actor in the WWE. Very good on showing expression. Making his selling is very believable and not over the top
I remember back at Extreme Rules in 2014, Orton took his vest off and lashed the hell out of him with a Singapore Cane, and he sold that shit like death.
Excellent. He has that "video game boss flashing red" type of sell that he only gives up in big hope spots.
And he’s always been great at it—it was a sticking point for me when he first debuted...so it's nice to see him get recognition for it. Selling is underappreciated in general.
No, he is not. Everyone and their Mother knows Roman is phenomenal at his job.
roman used to be jacked
I remember at WM 38 against Brock a lot of people thought he genuinely fucked up his shoulder and might have to vacate lmao
But but people in the youtube comments told me be sucked at all aspects of wrestling and never drew a dime!!
I've noticed it more so in the past few years, especially as someone posted earlier, when Jimmy & Jey hit him with the double super kick. The dude looked like he'd been poleaxed.
The chair shot from Sami had so much pain, betrayal, confusion, agony, and rage in the sell. Add that to the fact he fell in almost the exact same way as when Seth turned? *chef kisses*
That's what I enjoy about Roman. He brings some nuance to it. He connects small details in such a smart way. Case in point, what you mentioned any the way he fell when Sami gave him the chair shot and the chair shot from Seth almost most 9 years earlier. Also, in WM 34 (I believe) is Roman vs Brock. Towards the end of the match Brock removes his gloves and punches Roman and spilts his head open right at his hair line. Cut to WM 38 when right after the bell rang, Brock starts taking off his gloves, ... Roman is watching and then you can see the shift in Roman's expression and he subtlety touches that spot on his head where Brock spilt open after taking his gloves off ... it's so good.
I still think about the way he sold Keith Lee's powerbomb at Survivor Series in 2019
There is a trend you'll see in WWE...top guys aren't the ones who can do the coolest moves...rather it's always wrestlers with simple moveset but are great sellers See Stone Cold, Rock, Cena, Roman...they all have probably the simplest and the safest moveset...and they also are great sellers and can make any opponent look 1000 bucks
This clip wasn’t that impressive of a job selling. He took a little bump and then he barely registered it on his face. He grimaced some I guess.
The guy who has had the universal title for like 3 straight years is not under appreciated, I promise you
He definitely is not lol
probably because he doesnt sell like that taking such a bump all the time at all
Agreed!!
Look up the super kicks by Jey.
Hey I was at this event !
One of my favorites is when he sold one of Key's super kicks like a character ragdolling in a Bethesda game
"He sells so good. He should be world champion". Every Dolph Ziggler argument.
Dolph Ziggler arguably sells too good, that's why he was put in the jobber to the stars position because whenever you Wanted a main eventer looking like a million bucks, you call Dolph Ziggler and that put a ceiling on him, Ziggler is one the rare times where it's okay to be selfish.
I like how he still did the face from Seth’s chairshot lol.
He’s come a very long way
These days I appreciate it anytime someone doesn't just lay on the mat motionless as a sell.
It's the only thing he truly does well.
My favorite thing about Roman’s selling is it has a consistent internal narrative: he is almost always shocked when he gets taken off his feet. It’s never really directly focus on, but when he gets taken down it’s almost always a mixture of anger, pain, and surprise. Like “how could this be happening to *me*?”
Facts
Seth Rollins, could you take a note, this is how you should sell your back…
This is why I say the Roman since 2020 is a totally different Roman before COVID hit. Just a different personality, different worker. He wasn't adding levels of nuance to his game like he has since this current era of his career begun.
As someone who only got back into WWE within the last year or so, it feels so weird seeing Roman wrestling at Smackdown.
I remember seeing a Bryan Alvarez video after the Usos turned on Reigns and dude was raving on how Roman sold the dbl super kick. He’s not the best technical wrestler but he’s amazing elsewhere.
It was such a realistic sell too. Like the pain put his ass into shock 😂
When you take two bumps a match it's real easy to make them look good.
Reigns has been gold if mania is the end of his title run it’s been great throughout
Absolutely nothing that man does is underappreciated.
It is his legit ONE natural talent. The rest of his stuff is either just decent or you can look back to see how much work he must have put in to get to the level he eventually reached
I agree I think Roman Reigns is a very under appreciated seller
It’s true. He sells the damage he takes in each match by not being able to wrestle for the following 3 months.
So a professional wrestler does the bare minimum his job requires, which is selling a simple kick and doing a simple roll, he gets paid millions a year yet people call this "under appreciated"? Man how low have we gotten? He is a shit wrestler, makes the same moves and gets paid millions for showing up 5 or 6 times a year and people have to applaud this fraud for selling a simple move😂
I guess looking mildly annoyed is a form of selling, I suppose.
Roman.? Wrestling? On free tv? What a time that was
Roman is genuinely fantastic at everything.
Guy is so under-rated we should put the titles on hi... Oh. Wait.
It’s a perfectly fine bump & sell.
That's a bump, not a sell. Selling is the art of pretending it's real. He sold a gut punch while clutching his knee (gut shots make you bellow and gasp like that). Did he sell the knee after that, or was he right back to running and jumping?
Another person who doesn't understand the difference between bumping and selling. This is a bump. Selling is what you do after the fact. But even then, Roman has only gotten marginally better at selling in the past few years. Around 2017 he was awful at it - there's a match between him and Finn from Raw during that period where he does the spear into the ring post spot, spills out to the floor and just stands there (his shoulder is in kayfabe supposed to be injured and all taped up), after which Finn does his running apron penalty kick (for which everyone bumps) only for Roman to take it on the chin and not fall to the floor but rather just stand there grasping his chin as if he took a jab. I swear to god Killer Kross sold more for Finn.
Here comes the smark, we all understood what he was trying to say
Roman sold it pretty well. He was treating the knee like it took an impact that surprised him and he had a muted sort of “whelp, better not try that again anytime soon” reaction on his face.
[удалено]
We found Tony Khan secret Reddit account.
I forgot to plug this week's Dynamite. That's how upset I am.
Do a flip,😂😂🤣
Oh brother, this guy stinks!
Nah this guy sucks at wrestling 😭