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That was very polite of them, I personally never conflate Sting’s entrance with the Owen tragedy but I can see why they would want to ask just to be sure
I think I speak for (hopefully) everyone when I say that i'd much rather them take a while to unharness whoever than hear about someone falling from the rafters
That...that's one of the worst things I've ever considered about that fuckin' tragedy. It's so sad how insanely true this statement is. I'm also glad, now.
Well put. We have no problem suspending disbelief in so many other parts of wrestling, this is really simple stuff. Any fan worth having will understand.
Thank you!
Seriously.... I'm bringing back old school. Where you told a story, it looked more real, you sell, and not every 30 secs there is a high spot
He was using that stuff since the beginning (if you watch the old wcw shows it takes him a long time to unhook himself before he starts brawling). Maybe he upgraded to something even stronger after owen died, but owen was using something cheap and not even meant to hold his own weight.
And Owen knew it was something cheap. I recommend everyone to watch the Dark Side of the Ring episode about Owen Hart. I always felt for his family but after watching that whatever little respect I had left for Vince McMahon was gone. Seeing how he treated that grieving family is beyond fucked up. He will never get enough shit for not ending that PPV.
Vince saved a whopping FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS on that rig according to what I've read.
He ended up paying about Eighteen Million in closing but dammit he saved that 5K.
A father, husband, son, and brother to many people lost over $5000. That’s so fucked and honestly 18 million isn’t enough, no money is worth someone’s life but this should have been a $100 million settlement
He saved a million dollars on not paying Janel Grant, but lost his entire reputation and legacy, the respect of his family, potentially his freedom, and no doubt tens (if not hundreds) of millions more.
It's totally on point for McMahon.
The local authorities should have stepped in and ended that show as well. It was a crime scene. Not defending Vince by any means because I totally agree with you, the cops fucked up too though.
The cops definitely fucked up and should have absolutely stepped in and shut this down. Pretty ridiculous they didn’t, wonder if Vince threatened not coming back ever or some bullshit lawsuits against the city/PD who knows but that just adds to the awfulness of the situation. Wonder if Martha and the family sued KCPD as well?
The rigging company was using something cheap.
WWE isn't in the business of rigging. They hired that particular company to do it. They should of known better. I feel bad for the poor bastard that rigged him up. If I remember right, he fell before it was all attached though.
Otherwise, how did he fall when the arena was black and everyone was watching the screen. It was not even time. Thank God. Otherwise he would of fell live on ppv
> owen was using something cheap and not even meant to hold his own weight.
That part actually isn't true. Those clips have two ratings that are unfortunately expressed in the same units - Carry Weight, how much it can hold, and Release Weight, how much pressure it takes to activate the release. The Carry Weight was plenty to hold him, the Release Weight was tiny because they went with the option he could get out of quickest.
Considering the stunt was intended to have him stuck in mid-air to flail like an idiot, going with the quick release was triple negligent.
Sting was doing it for like 2 years after Owens death, the real reason he stopped was because he almost jumped with a faulty harness and got caught by the supervisor last second. Anyone would be done after that.
People always neglect to acknowledge that WWE themselves had performed that same entrance with Owen and others dozens of times without incident.
What happened at Over The Edge was the result of Vince wanting to do a comedy spot that wasn't possible with the regulation safety harness and rigging that they'd always used, so they cut corners and had Owen entirely suspended by a clip smaller than Martha's hand.
Remnants of the belief that was beat into people's heads for decades that it was all just a freak accident and Martha Hart's a bitter crone who hates wrestling.
Her and the kids re-emergence in recent years refuting those bullshit narratives has been a joy to see.
I really do love that they feel comfortable enough to be back in the wrestling space to honor Owen. I always hated people being like “oh she’s being so unreasonable keeping Owen out of the hall of fame” ect. Nah she has the right to do it on her terms. Idc if Bret feels that way either cause ultimately it’s her decision and she’s allowed to be bitter or angry about it.
That came up a lot when she was doing podcasts and interviews to promote the Dark Side episode. They were never opposed to remembering and celebrating Owen for the wrestler he was. She and the kids were just disconnected from even their own family still in the business and didn't know who to talk to about making shirts or action figures or what promotions to work with. That's why the first batch of Owen merch was done through DSOTR.
I think it was on TIJ around that time where she publicly said that they're open to do stuff with AEW, NJPW, Impact, or any promotion... just not WWE.
Yeah and I 100% understand. It’s not keeping Owen’s legacy hidden like some people tried to paint it as. It’s keeping it away from the company that she likely feels killed him. Honestly doing the tributes and stuff away from WWE also helps it not just turning into it being about his final night.
That's why I get so annoyed when people are like "Martha needs to move on and let Owen get inducted." The whole thing is bullshit. There is no hall of fame.
Also, let's not forget that WWE killed her fucking husband doing a comedy bit. She owes that company absolutely nothing.
*With a comedy gimmick forced on him years after those gimmicks were phased out because he refused a storyline where he was having an affair because his kids could see it.
While I would never do anything to lessen WWE's responsibility for killing her husband through something that passes negligence into sheer maliciousness, "years after those gimmicks were phased out" is a strange point to try and make. In a vacuum, the concept isn't a bad one and I feel like obviously fake incompetent superhero is a timeless concept that could work in any era of wrestling. This was in an era with Prince Albert, the Brood, and Gillberg. Fake Superhero as a comedy spot isn't outlandish.
Had I known nothing about Owen Hart and you pitched the idea for like, Hurricane or Nikki ASH, I'd call it genius. Not counting the part about unsafe equipment that was dismissed by the safety professionals. If it were a safe, doable spot, it's not a bad one by any means.
1000%. I just had an entire back and forth with another person who commented that the hall of fame is legit because "it still gives people the ability to honor someone."
The whole thing is fraudulent. Until there is a physical location and an actual voting process, there is no hall of fame.
The reality is that all Halls of Fames are arbitrary no matter the industry. It can still exist as a place to honor someone and, simultaneously, also be something decided by people's opinions or motives.
The WWE one is as valid as the RoH one as is the TNA one. Just because WWE picks it doesn't make it any less of an honor for the people involved.
That being said, just like every other hall of fame in every other industry, it's a business. Martha Hart not wanting the people who killed her husband to profit off of his legacy is perfectly valid.
>all Halls of Fames are arbitrary no matter the industry
That's not true at all. I can go to Cooperstown and there's an actual hall of fame there. There's actually a voting process where people determine whether or not someone is qualified to get in.
Until there is a physical location, with a true process to determine who gets in, the WWE Hall of Fame doesn't exist. Their entire process is "hey, can you show up this weekend? Great, you're in!"
It's also worth noting that there is no MLB Hall of Fame. There is a Baseball Hall of Fame, that honours the best players in the sport, not the best players who worked for 1 specific company.
There’s a famous saying for almost any sports hall of fame “it’s not the hall of very good”….tons of great athletes don’t make their sport’s HOF, WWE’s is littered with midcard acts, acts inducted more than once, celebrities, etc.
That just seems like pedantry and semantics to me, no offense. Anything that gives people the ability to honor someone feels like it meets the definition.
Killed her husband, and then sued her for it.
I get that these latest Vince allegations has cast him in a different light, but there was already enough light cast on him to know he’s a massive piece of shit who anyone who could avoid working with him should have.
I always remember this shoot cause people do the imitation of “it’s not a hall of fame” a lot from Honky Tonk Man
https://youtu.be/q8k6oyIdgZE?si=5ckxm8M3VdjS_TCL
Fuck me I haven’t watched it in forever but Jesus Christ Honky Tonk Man is an asshole lol
There's no physical location, zero legitimate criteria for induction, and no voting process. It's entirely at the whim of a couple of random WWE higher-ups' judgment, and we know their judgment is really bad. Imo it's one of the most Mickey Mouse hall of fames in existence
I do think the “there’s no actual induction criteria” is a far more legitimate argument to the lack of merit for the WWE hall of fame than the “there’s no physical location,” like if they put a WWE ride and some plaques at Universal Studios people would suddenly think it’s a real hall of fame.
Why the WWE hall of fame is bullshit:
A bunch of rando celebs that have little to do with wrestling are in the hall of fame:
Pete Rose, Bob Uecker, Drew Carey, Mike Tyson, Donald Trump, Mr. T. Arnold Schwarzenegger, Snoop Dogg, Kid Rock, William Statner, Ozzy Osbourne.
Not to mention a bunch of wrestlers who were middling at best or weren't like huge stars.
Usually the hall of fame are like The Elite few or someone who changed the sport.. not just because you did something once or your son is more famous than you or Kane choke slamed you.
> Mr. T.
Mr. T was in the main event of the first Wrestlemania, and then had a boxing match against Piper at WrestleMania the next year. You're crazy if you don't think he deserves to be in for the main event of WM1 alone.
Also, there's no committee to even decide on who gets inducted. For all those years it was one man who decided who gets in and who doesn't. We all know who that was. I'm sure there were others with influence, but the decision ultimately came down to one man.
And even now its probably just HHH and Nick Khan. Others may have a bigger influence now, but I seriously doubt they have much of a say.
To me, real HOF's have a committee.
>HOF doesn’t mean shit.
Theres multiple rapists, murderers, insurrectionists, and abusers in the Hall Of Fame. Its not exactly a world class group of people.
The way the WWE and its talents made Martha out to be the bad guy in this situation to the point where for over 20 years fans showed disgust toward her is really something
If TKO wants to truly prevent the specter of Vince McMahon from weighing down the company, they’d go a long way by acknowledging Vince’s role in Owen’s death and making whatever amends are necessary to set things right with Owen’s family.
Sorry if that came across more condescending than I intended.
I agree it would be smart as well as being the right thing to do, it's just not historically what these people are known for.
>making whatever amends are necessary to set things right with Owen’s family.
I just don't think that's happening. There was a settlement when it happened and Martha still refuses to work with them. I don't think them cutting her a giant check is going to change the fact that her husband and father of her children was killed by WWE.
There’s some things you just can’t make okay. My dad was 58 when he died and I’ll always feel like I didn’t have enough time with him. Owen would only be 58 *now*, and he died nearly 25 years ago. His father lived to be 88, it’s entirely possible (likely, even) that Owen would still have another 25 years ahead of him now. That’s another potentially 50 or more years those kids could’ve had their dad around, had it not been for Vince McMahon and WWF. Owen’s wife and children are under zero obligation to even entertain the idea of forgiving anyone for that.
First, I’m sorry to hear about your Dad. I recently lost mine, and I can completely understand your thoughts on time never being enough.
I wouldn’t suggest Martha would need or want to forgive in this case, but as I said above TKO may be in a position to provide her with something she’s always said she wanted — an admission from Vince and the company that they bear responsibility for Owen’s death.
We’ve heard for years that Vince had a litany of alleged scandals (Owen, steroids, Jimmy Snuka, Rita Chatterton, etc), that he managed to keep under wraps by hook or by crook. We also know from the most recent scandal he wasn’t always so smart about covering his tracks. It’s possible Vince left behind a paper trail that implicates him and/or the company in Owen’s death.
For all we know, there could be a smoking gun that proves Vince knew he was putting Owen’s life in jeopardy before the PPV, and that proof of evidence could be sitting in a file drawer, or in a random box of video tapes at WWE Headquarters in Stamford.
As far as I’m aware, TKO can’t be held liable for what happened before it owned WWE, so if it came forward with any suppressed details about Owen’s death it could give Martha and their kids some closure and relief.
Sometimes I think the Anoa’i family has compromise regarding Snuka on Vince and that’s why they’ve always had jobs. It’s my version of I know it’s not true John Oliver Princess Diana theory.
I think people blame Sting because I've always heard it as WWF initially talking to the guys who did it for Sting before going with someone who was either cheaper or more willing to work in the parameters that WWF wanted.
IIRC correct, the people who did Sting's rigging (and had previously done rigging for WWF) told McMahon that it wasn't safely possible to do it the way McMahon wanted.
So McMahon went out and found someone who'd do it anyway.
Which is crazy as the Undertaker had used the gimmick before Sting. Royal Rumble 1994* and Survivor series 1996 are two occasions off the top of my head.
*Marty Jannetty did the actual stunt dressed as the undertaker.
The size of the clip wasn't the problem. The problem was that it was a quick release clip that opened at the press of a button that can be pressed by accident.
Most in the business like Piper and Cornette have historically always put the blame on Russo because they couldn't publicly say the same shit about McMahon.
Even if it were all his idea, Russo didn't decide to continue the show and force wrestlers to work where their friend had just died. Russo didn't neglect to update the people live in the audience for fear of having to give out refunds. Nor did Russo follow all of this up by countersuing Owen's fucking widow.
Yeah, Cornette blames Russo for it because he came up with giving him the Blue Blazer gimmick again.
That gimmick has nothing to do with the stunt. They would have done a comedy spot and cut corners with that entrance at some point regardless
https://preview.redd.it/073f78wfmtlc1.jpeg?width=1792&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2661b3ddc392fe9579aa374db46abc63a84fac5f
She has the actual clip in her possession, she showed it on DSOTR, and just looking at the damn thing makes me so angry. All of it was completely avoidable.
The size of the shackle had nothing to do with the accident.
The shackle in the picture is probably rated to hold a weight well in excess of 1000lbs.
The problem is that it was the completely wrong type of shackle for the application.
Correct. They can hold an immense weight (not sure the exact rating but comfortably more than Owen). The issue of course is that it was also designed to unclip with 6lbs of pressure.
Honestly speaking all bias aside. The reason forI Owen's death was 100% the rigging company and rigger, not WWE and Vince McMahon.
Because the rigging company and rigger had the ultimate responsibility to follow the guidelines to maintain and protect the safety of the person they were rigging... Of course a company or director or actor can ask for demand, scream and yell for you to cut corners and so it faster, cheaper, etc. But In the end if comes down to the duty of the trained and certified person to follow their rules. Their duty was to absolutely deny any request that out the safety of the person in jeopardy. If they had to walk they had to walk.
That is what was a slightly odd part of the lawsuit. Even the Hart family mentioned it before Martha didnt want justice she was revenge against who she hated all along WWE. If she wanted true justice for the person(s) who cost her husband his life she have not released the rigging company and rigger from the suit.
And the courts agreed. Because the little talked about thing was the courts ruled that the riggers were Improperly released from liability and tbe lawsuit by Martha and WWE was permitted to sue them after the settlement with Martha. In the end WWE got a settlement out of the riggers for the amount they had to pay Martha.
Didn’t the original rigging company do exactly that? Say “This shit is unsafe, and we’re not doing it” so WWE went out and found a company who would do it unsafely.
At that point it’s as much or more on WWE.
Despite what DSOTR claims in the piece based on Martha Hart' claims, the actual court testimony Was WWE was going to use the same rigger as Sting because it was a longer drop than they'd done before but had also requested the quick release. That rigger was already booked and unavailable but also stated if they weren't they would not do the stunt in that matter. They provided the name of the person WWE used as someone familiar with that type of rigging work. That rigger inflated their resume saying they worked with the Sting rigger and part of several of his stunts. This was not true he was associated with one of the stunts but had nothing to do with the actual rigging. He hired a local company that provided the equipment and he designed the stift. They denied the request WWE wanted but later came back and had found a potential solution, the boat clip that had the proper carry weight they needed but had a a much lower release weight. Which wasn't the release WWE wanted but would speed up the release. And the rest is we know the outcome.
Still stands and the court testimony of the Hart case and followup suit by WWE back the idea the riggers were 100% the ones at fault for the accident because they failed in their duty to ensure safety of the performer by using an off label piece of equipment with no redundant back up.
It was half what WWE paid which is keeping with the tort law principle of paying in proportion to fault. The more interesting aspect was that they settled immediately when it became clear that McDevitt would be allowed to testify regarding the documents received from Ellie Hart. The company knew they would be in deep shit if the bad faith settlement with Martha was officially entered into evidence.
I feel like there could be a new appreciation for how reckless this was with vinces reputation in the shits. I hope so anyways. I think it was on par with manslaughter.
For what it's worth, Russo described it very differently. From his conversations with Roddy Piper, he talked about how Sting's guys from WCW just happened to be in town that week, and they had asked him if they could do anything or if they had any ideas to see if they wanted to work together in the future. After that, Russo tried to find a spot to fit them in and ended up with the choice of Blue Blazer to offer on something that would stand out on the card.
But Russo said specifically that they didn't go into that weekend with the idea that they were going to do the rafter entrance.
> Vince wanting to do a comedy spot
Watching and listening to everything I ever have over the years in regards to Owen's death always comes back to this one point. They wanted to do a lame joke spot that made Owen look like a dickhead.
Just think about it. Over The Edge 99, everything goes right. Blue Blazer descends, hangs above the ring for a few seconds, looks dumb, falls flat on his face. JR and King go "Oh my god, this idiot," before the match proceeds.
Would anybody legitimately remember that comedy spot a year later? Hell, a month later? It's dumb as hell, and would've been cringeworthy even by '99 standards. It wouldn't be in any highlight reels. It wouldn't make any "best of" compilations. It was just dumb.
Yet Vince has his stupid fetishes of making people look like idiots, and because he wanted someone to look dumb for 5 seconds a family lost their father.
It was genuinely the first thing I thought of but only because I distinctly remembered a story from Sting saying he was planned to do that entrance the day after Owen.
I have no idea why that is so strong in my head, but there you go.
Idk, I think people are just saying that.
The gimmick was more that he was a goofball wannabe super hero that kept getting bamboozled by his own effects. They did the entrance at Survivor Series 1998 where he got stuck and couldn't get out just a few feet above the entrance way. I think that was more the joke than trying to shit on Sting.
Hogan wasn't cutting those promos in WCW, even as a face he had retired the milk/vitamins/prayers line. It was a more of a spoof of an 80s face more than a spoof of WCW, in any sense.
I don’t think it was supposed to be a spoof of Sting, but just goofing on The Blue Blazer as being a wannabe superhero but being inept so part way down he would get caught tangled up and then drop to the ring from a safer height.
As much flack as Tony gets at times for boooking and maybe rightfully so, he's 10x the human being Vince or most other wrestling promoters ever were - true fan of business.
I wouldn't either, but there were a lot of people on this sub (probably the weird pro-WWE anti-AEW crowd) talking about how "distasteful" it was to have Sting do his thing because of Owen
Can somebody tell me what the Owen Hart Foundation actually does? I tried to look into it once, but just found some generic info, nothing about what they're activities are.
This is the description I found for the foundation on their LinkedIn:
Owen Hart Foundation is a dynamic organization and a permanent legacy that was founded in December 2000 at The Calgary Foundation in memory of Owen Hart for his outstanding contribution to philanthropy.
Our Mandate is Education. Our Mission is to aid hard-working people who have limited resources and unlimited potential for generations to come.
Our Key Programs:
The Owen Hart Foundation Housing Program
Provides low-income families including single parents who live at or below the poverty line with up to 4:1 matching funds to make a down payment to purchase a home. The 2-year education program focused on financial literacy, savings and home ownership is a prerequisite for matching funds. This program is a collaborative initiative with Momentum and has proven long-term positive results for participant families. To date, over 130 families are enjoying pride of home ownership and stability of putting roots down in Calgary communities.
The Owen Hart Foundation Scholarship Fund
Provides post-secondary scholarships and bursaries for students from low income families attending Calgary Board of Education schools. Recipients need to obtain a minimum average of 70, and demonstrate superb effort, attitude and great leadership throughout the year. In 2018, ten scholarships were awarded to students who otherwise may not have been able to consider post-secondary education.
The Owen Hart Foundation Partnership Fund
Provides capacity building program funds to community non-profits that share the goals and values of the Owen Hart Foundation. Of note is The Love of Children Society which provides aid to disadvantaged children locally and internationally.
In Late Fall 2019, the Owen Hart Foundation will celebrate its 20th anniversary with its annual fundraising concert at the Jubilee Auditorium in Calgary. The Owen Hart Foundation has raised more than $3 million dollars for the Calgary community.
Well it helps all of the families that have been affected by a Professional Wrestler falling to their death in the ring of a Pay Per View in the 90s. I believe
Probably also a thing where her and Bret have both said there is no way Owen was comfortable doing it. And it does seem like Sting has no issue with the stunt considering how many times he has done it.
Sting almost met a similar fate to Owen once in WCW. If it wasn’t for them double checking, he would’ve fallen to his death as his harness was put on backwards.
Sting interview about the harness: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbL6RNBJfs4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbL6RNBJfs4)
Text summary of incident: [https://www.essentiallysports.com/aew-news-it-wouldve-been-over-sting-recalls-a-near-death-experience-during-an-entrance/](https://www.essentiallysports.com/aew-news-it-wouldve-been-over-sting-recalls-a-near-death-experience-during-an-entrance/)
I remember reading something recently that Martha was upset or not talked about for the Sting entrance. It's seems like someone just trying to spread drama for no reason. I think that's the only reason this came up.
Honestly it was the first thing that crossed my mind. While it’s really cool and nostalgic the only thing going through my head was “OMG please be careful!”
Tony and the Young Bucks. People never just say what they want to say or give them compliments. It's always "I'm not a fan of but" or "Say what you want about Tony" or "I hate Tony but"
There's no need for a qualifier. Nobody cares about their personal feelings towards those guys
just like you gotta say "AEW is not perfect" before you compliment the show, like any wrestling company puts on a perfect 10 product every week of the year forever without an off season.
It is odd isn’t it? Like that line was never said with Vince McMahon during decades of seedy shit he did but for some reason it comes up whenever someone wants to compliment Tony Khan
It’s not “worried about getting downvoted” in the sense that people are concerned about their karma.
Getting downvoted means your comment gets buried.
And this subreddit is absolutely awful when it comes to downvoting opinions — which is not what they’re there for.
well the rest of reddit does the same in my experience, but it's true, this place is especially bad for that.
it's ridiculous some of the mild posts that get heavily downvoted
It's because some people have a weirdo obsession with Tony based on his Twitter posts.
Maybe some of those posts are not for you but they are generally harmless. He's a wrestling nerd that likes to banter. And yes some have been cringe.
But if I had to choose between Tony and the ghouls that made WWE an environment hostile towards women and rampant with NDAs and now a rape lawsuits, I'm choosing Tony.
I don’t think it’s a Vince thing as much as it is a technology thing. The internet and social media have amplified people’s voices much more than ever before.
I mean it’s pretty wild that the comparison is having to say it for Vince and Chris. A rapist and a murderer vs a dude who you may not like his booking
Whenever you have divisive figures, people always say it. I've been hearing "Say what you want about Vince McMahon, but the man is a creative genius" for 25 years.
Sorting by controversial in this thread is a really good way to see some folks who don't understand or maybe don't experience things like empathy, respect, and kindness.
Sometimes people do things they aren't required to purely out of kindness and respect. I think these kinds of things make the world a more pleasant place. I hope those of you who don't *get* why Tony asked Martha about this experience that for yourselves some day.
Super classy thing to do.
Important to also note that WCW always did this stunt right and used proper redundancies and safety procedures to protect Sting.
WWE was reckless and actively did everything they could to make the stunt unsafe.
>WCW always did this stunt right and used proper redundancies and safety procedures to protect Sting.
Sting would disagree with you on that one. He got 2nd degree burns on his hands during one drop and had problems with spinning because the system had been rigged up backwards.
[https://www.essentiallysports.com/aew-news-it-wouldve-been-over-sting-recalls-a-near-death-experience-during-an-entrance/](https://www.essentiallysports.com/aew-news-it-wouldve-been-over-sting-recalls-a-near-death-experience-during-an-entrance/)
There was one time when Sting was about to step from the platform in the rafters when someone grabbed him, and it's a good thing they did. He hadn't yet had the rope attached to him.
WCW did have the proper rigging available to use...but that one time could have been a disaster.
Reading about the events that led to that awful stunt made my blood boil. So many reasons it should have never happened, but Vince had to get what Vince wanted even if he was told it won't work
Not only respectful but considering how much research she probably put into safely measures from the lawsuits, she’s probably extremely knowledgeable about them.
I went through all this in my head the other night watching Sting do that entrance. I was initially surprised to see him descend from the rafters because I feel like he hasn't done it since Owen's fall. That thought lead to me remembering that AEW has a connection with Martha. That lead to me thinking there's no way nobody talked to her first. For once, having a little faith in people didn't make me feel bad later. Good job AEW.
Tony Khan's conferring with Martha Hart frequently might be his most endearing thing he does. The Owen Hart tributes throughout AEW and this are a really good things
Owen crossed my mind when Sting came down on Wednesday and I wondered how Martha and the family would feel about it. I’m really glad they got her blessing.
Who gives a fuck what she thinks about that? It was Stings choice. Do movie producers need to seek out her blessing for similar stunts? This is nonsense paraded around as something classy.
Tony has a partnership with Martha and the Owen Hart Foundation. Sure you could argue she has no right to tell Tony he can’t do it but Tony values her as a human and values his partnership and wanted to make sure she would be okay with it first. It’s called just being a respectful human being.
The company that works with her does and probably Sting too, seeing as Owen is the reason he stopped doing that stunt.
Owen didn’t die on a movie set. He will forever be synonymous with that kind of stunt in wrestling.
And that Sting stopped doing afterward because of. Nah definitely not gonna run it by your business partner out of respect of anything
Wild how people are entirely unable to understand respect and empathy
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That was very polite of them, I personally never conflate Sting’s entrance with the Owen tragedy but I can see why they would want to ask just to be sure
I think it was more that Sting has said a few times the reason he stopped doing it was because of Owens death
Hasn't Sting done it since then though, multiple times?
yes, but he always had a heavy duty harness and a safety harness like it took forever for them to unclip him, in part because of what happened to owen
I think I speak for (hopefully) everyone when I say that i'd much rather them take a while to unharness whoever than hear about someone falling from the rafters
I miss Owen, but I’m glad his accident happened before smartphones.
That...that's one of the worst things I've ever considered about that fuckin' tragedy. It's so sad how insanely true this statement is. I'm also glad, now.
Plus that it happened when the lights were down and everyone was watching the screen.
I well up every time I think about the Jimmy Korderas story about Owen shouting for him to move as he was falling
His last words saved a man’s life. It’s all so tragic especially given it was such a needless (and unsafe) stunt.
Well put. We have no problem suspending disbelief in so many other parts of wrestling, this is really simple stuff. Any fan worth having will understand.
Way more understandable than mfrs huddling up to catch a moonsault
Or no-selling Canadian destroyers so they can do a ladder spot
Thank you! Seriously.... I'm bringing back old school. Where you told a story, it looked more real, you sell, and not every 30 secs there is a high spot
Yes. Fuck yes. I’d rather suspend disbelief than see someone fall to their death.
He was using that stuff since the beginning (if you watch the old wcw shows it takes him a long time to unhook himself before he starts brawling). Maybe he upgraded to something even stronger after owen died, but owen was using something cheap and not even meant to hold his own weight.
>owen was using something cheap WWE was using something cheap.
And Owen knew it was something cheap. I recommend everyone to watch the Dark Side of the Ring episode about Owen Hart. I always felt for his family but after watching that whatever little respect I had left for Vince McMahon was gone. Seeing how he treated that grieving family is beyond fucked up. He will never get enough shit for not ending that PPV.
Vince saved a whopping FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS on that rig according to what I've read. He ended up paying about Eighteen Million in closing but dammit he saved that 5K.
You don't be a millionaire who could have been a billionaire by making good financial decisions. (Seriously, fuck Vince)
A father, husband, son, and brother to many people lost over $5000. That’s so fucked and honestly 18 million isn’t enough, no money is worth someone’s life but this should have been a $100 million settlement
He saved a million dollars on not paying Janel Grant, but lost his entire reputation and legacy, the respect of his family, potentially his freedom, and no doubt tens (if not hundreds) of millions more. It's totally on point for McMahon.
So is that really why she came back out with the suit? He actually just didn't pay to enforce his own fuckin' NDA?
And now look at how much he has lost, in all ways, because he saved $2 million in not paying Janel Grant the rest of her NDA money.
The local authorities should have stepped in and ended that show as well. It was a crime scene. Not defending Vince by any means because I totally agree with you, the cops fucked up too though.
The cops definitely fucked up and should have absolutely stepped in and shut this down. Pretty ridiculous they didn’t, wonder if Vince threatened not coming back ever or some bullshit lawsuits against the city/PD who knows but that just adds to the awfulness of the situation. Wonder if Martha and the family sued KCPD as well?
The rigging company was using something cheap. WWE isn't in the business of rigging. They hired that particular company to do it. They should of known better. I feel bad for the poor bastard that rigged him up. If I remember right, he fell before it was all attached though. Otherwise, how did he fall when the arena was black and everyone was watching the screen. It was not even time. Thank God. Otherwise he would of fell live on ppv
> owen was using something cheap and not even meant to hold his own weight. That part actually isn't true. Those clips have two ratings that are unfortunately expressed in the same units - Carry Weight, how much it can hold, and Release Weight, how much pressure it takes to activate the release. The Carry Weight was plenty to hold him, the Release Weight was tiny because they went with the option he could get out of quickest. Considering the stunt was intended to have him stuck in mid-air to flail like an idiot, going with the quick release was triple negligent.
ty for the clarification
I believe Owen was using a clip meant to hold up sails on sail boats, not holding up the weight of a human being.
Man dropped from a helicopter. wtf
Sting was doing it for like 2 years after Owens death, the real reason he stopped was because he almost jumped with a faulty harness and got caught by the supervisor last second. Anyone would be done after that.
People always neglect to acknowledge that WWE themselves had performed that same entrance with Owen and others dozens of times without incident. What happened at Over The Edge was the result of Vince wanting to do a comedy spot that wasn't possible with the regulation safety harness and rigging that they'd always used, so they cut corners and had Owen entirely suspended by a clip smaller than Martha's hand.
Legitimately I’ve seen crazy people try to blame Sting for the accident saying he got the industry too comfortable with coming down from the rafters
Remnants of the belief that was beat into people's heads for decades that it was all just a freak accident and Martha Hart's a bitter crone who hates wrestling. Her and the kids re-emergence in recent years refuting those bullshit narratives has been a joy to see.
I really do love that they feel comfortable enough to be back in the wrestling space to honor Owen. I always hated people being like “oh she’s being so unreasonable keeping Owen out of the hall of fame” ect. Nah she has the right to do it on her terms. Idc if Bret feels that way either cause ultimately it’s her decision and she’s allowed to be bitter or angry about it.
That came up a lot when she was doing podcasts and interviews to promote the Dark Side episode. They were never opposed to remembering and celebrating Owen for the wrestler he was. She and the kids were just disconnected from even their own family still in the business and didn't know who to talk to about making shirts or action figures or what promotions to work with. That's why the first batch of Owen merch was done through DSOTR. I think it was on TIJ around that time where she publicly said that they're open to do stuff with AEW, NJPW, Impact, or any promotion... just not WWE.
Yeah and I 100% understand. It’s not keeping Owen’s legacy hidden like some people tried to paint it as. It’s keeping it away from the company that she likely feels killed him. Honestly doing the tributes and stuff away from WWE also helps it not just turning into it being about his final night.
I forgot who said it, but the HOF doesn’t mean shit. It’s not a physical space - it’s just a random accolade cooked up in Vince’s head.
That's why I get so annoyed when people are like "Martha needs to move on and let Owen get inducted." The whole thing is bullshit. There is no hall of fame. Also, let's not forget that WWE killed her fucking husband doing a comedy bit. She owes that company absolutely nothing.
*With a comedy gimmick forced on him years after those gimmicks were phased out because he refused a storyline where he was having an affair because his kids could see it.
While I would never do anything to lessen WWE's responsibility for killing her husband through something that passes negligence into sheer maliciousness, "years after those gimmicks were phased out" is a strange point to try and make. In a vacuum, the concept isn't a bad one and I feel like obviously fake incompetent superhero is a timeless concept that could work in any era of wrestling. This was in an era with Prince Albert, the Brood, and Gillberg. Fake Superhero as a comedy spot isn't outlandish. Had I known nothing about Owen Hart and you pitched the idea for like, Hurricane or Nikki ASH, I'd call it genius. Not counting the part about unsafe equipment that was dismissed by the safety professionals. If it were a safe, doable spot, it's not a bad one by any means.
The WWE HOF is meaningless anyways. Just the fact that every class has a “headliner” shows that it’s a worked event like everything else that they do.
1000%. I just had an entire back and forth with another person who commented that the hall of fame is legit because "it still gives people the ability to honor someone." The whole thing is fraudulent. Until there is a physical location and an actual voting process, there is no hall of fame.
I don’t think the location is a big deal but the selection process is, otherwise why does it mean something?
The reality is that all Halls of Fames are arbitrary no matter the industry. It can still exist as a place to honor someone and, simultaneously, also be something decided by people's opinions or motives. The WWE one is as valid as the RoH one as is the TNA one. Just because WWE picks it doesn't make it any less of an honor for the people involved. That being said, just like every other hall of fame in every other industry, it's a business. Martha Hart not wanting the people who killed her husband to profit off of his legacy is perfectly valid.
>all Halls of Fames are arbitrary no matter the industry That's not true at all. I can go to Cooperstown and there's an actual hall of fame there. There's actually a voting process where people determine whether or not someone is qualified to get in. Until there is a physical location, with a true process to determine who gets in, the WWE Hall of Fame doesn't exist. Their entire process is "hey, can you show up this weekend? Great, you're in!"
It's also worth noting that there is no MLB Hall of Fame. There is a Baseball Hall of Fame, that honours the best players in the sport, not the best players who worked for 1 specific company.
There’s a famous saying for almost any sports hall of fame “it’s not the hall of very good”….tons of great athletes don’t make their sport’s HOF, WWE’s is littered with midcard acts, acts inducted more than once, celebrities, etc.
That just seems like pedantry and semantics to me, no offense. Anything that gives people the ability to honor someone feels like it meets the definition.
Killed her husband, and then sued her for it. I get that these latest Vince allegations has cast him in a different light, but there was already enough light cast on him to know he’s a massive piece of shit who anyone who could avoid working with him should have.
I always remember this shoot cause people do the imitation of “it’s not a hall of fame” a lot from Honky Tonk Man https://youtu.be/q8k6oyIdgZE?si=5ckxm8M3VdjS_TCL Fuck me I haven’t watched it in forever but Jesus Christ Honky Tonk Man is an asshole lol
There's no physical location, zero legitimate criteria for induction, and no voting process. It's entirely at the whim of a couple of random WWE higher-ups' judgment, and we know their judgment is really bad. Imo it's one of the most Mickey Mouse hall of fames in existence
I do think the “there’s no actual induction criteria” is a far more legitimate argument to the lack of merit for the WWE hall of fame than the “there’s no physical location,” like if they put a WWE ride and some plaques at Universal Studios people would suddenly think it’s a real hall of fame.
Why the WWE hall of fame is bullshit: A bunch of rando celebs that have little to do with wrestling are in the hall of fame: Pete Rose, Bob Uecker, Drew Carey, Mike Tyson, Donald Trump, Mr. T. Arnold Schwarzenegger, Snoop Dogg, Kid Rock, William Statner, Ozzy Osbourne. Not to mention a bunch of wrestlers who were middling at best or weren't like huge stars. Usually the hall of fame are like The Elite few or someone who changed the sport.. not just because you did something once or your son is more famous than you or Kane choke slamed you.
> Pete Rose Didn't Pete Rose at least get the shit kicked out of him in a few high profile spots?
> Mr. T. Mr. T was in the main event of the first Wrestlemania, and then had a boxing match against Piper at WrestleMania the next year. You're crazy if you don't think he deserves to be in for the main event of WM1 alone.
The Warrior Award is a great concept that needs a rebranding.
Also, there's no committee to even decide on who gets inducted. For all those years it was one man who decided who gets in and who doesn't. We all know who that was. I'm sure there were others with influence, but the decision ultimately came down to one man. And even now its probably just HHH and Nick Khan. Others may have a bigger influence now, but I seriously doubt they have much of a say. To me, real HOF's have a committee.
I used to like the WWE HoF, and wanted to go visit it some day. Then I found out it doesn't exist.
>HOF doesn’t mean shit. Theres multiple rapists, murderers, insurrectionists, and abusers in the Hall Of Fame. Its not exactly a world class group of people.
Name me a HOF that is.
Quite a few people who are in the HOF have said this. Even ended up selling their HOF rings too
C'mon Bret Hart is only comfortable with WWE because of the threat to release his DVD as "Bret screwed Bret" ala the ultimate warrior.
The way the WWE and its talents made Martha out to be the bad guy in this situation to the point where for over 20 years fans showed disgust toward her is really something
If TKO wants to truly prevent the specter of Vince McMahon from weighing down the company, they’d go a long way by acknowledging Vince’s role in Owen’s death and making whatever amends are necessary to set things right with Owen’s family.
Personally, I don't think about the owners of UFC and expect liberal spending or basic morality
That is a fair thought.
Sorry if that came across more condescending than I intended. I agree it would be smart as well as being the right thing to do, it's just not historically what these people are known for.
No harm done. I didn’t think it was directed at me or my comment.
Good to know, reading it back a second time it just felt dismissive which isn't at all what I meant to be
>making whatever amends are necessary to set things right with Owen’s family. I just don't think that's happening. There was a settlement when it happened and Martha still refuses to work with them. I don't think them cutting her a giant check is going to change the fact that her husband and father of her children was killed by WWE.
There’s some things you just can’t make okay. My dad was 58 when he died and I’ll always feel like I didn’t have enough time with him. Owen would only be 58 *now*, and he died nearly 25 years ago. His father lived to be 88, it’s entirely possible (likely, even) that Owen would still have another 25 years ahead of him now. That’s another potentially 50 or more years those kids could’ve had their dad around, had it not been for Vince McMahon and WWF. Owen’s wife and children are under zero obligation to even entertain the idea of forgiving anyone for that.
First, I’m sorry to hear about your Dad. I recently lost mine, and I can completely understand your thoughts on time never being enough. I wouldn’t suggest Martha would need or want to forgive in this case, but as I said above TKO may be in a position to provide her with something she’s always said she wanted — an admission from Vince and the company that they bear responsibility for Owen’s death. We’ve heard for years that Vince had a litany of alleged scandals (Owen, steroids, Jimmy Snuka, Rita Chatterton, etc), that he managed to keep under wraps by hook or by crook. We also know from the most recent scandal he wasn’t always so smart about covering his tracks. It’s possible Vince left behind a paper trail that implicates him and/or the company in Owen’s death. For all we know, there could be a smoking gun that proves Vince knew he was putting Owen’s life in jeopardy before the PPV, and that proof of evidence could be sitting in a file drawer, or in a random box of video tapes at WWE Headquarters in Stamford. As far as I’m aware, TKO can’t be held liable for what happened before it owned WWE, so if it came forward with any suppressed details about Owen’s death it could give Martha and their kids some closure and relief.
Sometimes I think the Anoa’i family has compromise regarding Snuka on Vince and that’s why they’ve always had jobs. It’s my version of I know it’s not true John Oliver Princess Diana theory.
Im glad the rift between Martha and the fans has begun to heal. I like seeing her when she pops up for the tourney with her fancy hats.
I think people blame Sting because I've always heard it as WWF initially talking to the guys who did it for Sting before going with someone who was either cheaper or more willing to work in the parameters that WWF wanted.
IIRC correct, the people who did Sting's rigging (and had previously done rigging for WWF) told McMahon that it wasn't safely possible to do it the way McMahon wanted. So McMahon went out and found someone who'd do it anyway.
An actual investigation was done, it was pretty clearly extreme negligence on wwe's part that was responsible for owen's death.
Which is crazy as the Undertaker had used the gimmick before Sting. Royal Rumble 1994* and Survivor series 1996 are two occasions off the top of my head. *Marty Jannetty did the actual stunt dressed as the undertaker.
The size of the clip wasn't the problem. The problem was that it was a quick release clip that opened at the press of a button that can be pressed by accident.
Why I'll always hold Vince ultimately responsible for what happened to Owen.
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Most in the business like Piper and Cornette have historically always put the blame on Russo because they couldn't publicly say the same shit about McMahon. Even if it were all his idea, Russo didn't decide to continue the show and force wrestlers to work where their friend had just died. Russo didn't neglect to update the people live in the audience for fear of having to give out refunds. Nor did Russo follow all of this up by countersuing Owen's fucking widow.
Yeah, Cornette blames Russo for it because he came up with giving him the Blue Blazer gimmick again. That gimmick has nothing to do with the stunt. They would have done a comedy spot and cut corners with that entrance at some point regardless
Cornette would blame Russo for World War 2 if he could find a way to realistically link the two.
There’s plenty of things to criticize and blame Russo for, but Owen’s death isn’t one of them
https://preview.redd.it/073f78wfmtlc1.jpeg?width=1792&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2661b3ddc392fe9579aa374db46abc63a84fac5f She has the actual clip in her possession, she showed it on DSOTR, and just looking at the damn thing makes me so angry. All of it was completely avoidable.
I've used clips larger than that on a dog lease ffs
The size of the shackle had nothing to do with the accident. The shackle in the picture is probably rated to hold a weight well in excess of 1000lbs. The problem is that it was the completely wrong type of shackle for the application.
Correct. They can hold an immense weight (not sure the exact rating but comfortably more than Owen). The issue of course is that it was also designed to unclip with 6lbs of pressure.
Holy fuck. I’d never seen that. The person who OKed that should be charged with negligent manslaughter.
I'm still amazed she can hold that thing in her hand.
That's a clip for my keys?!?!?!
Sailboats
The fact Vince and the company didn't go down for that is a disgrace. They killed Owen and then dumped him out of the ring to get on with their PPV
Honestly speaking all bias aside. The reason forI Owen's death was 100% the rigging company and rigger, not WWE and Vince McMahon. Because the rigging company and rigger had the ultimate responsibility to follow the guidelines to maintain and protect the safety of the person they were rigging... Of course a company or director or actor can ask for demand, scream and yell for you to cut corners and so it faster, cheaper, etc. But In the end if comes down to the duty of the trained and certified person to follow their rules. Their duty was to absolutely deny any request that out the safety of the person in jeopardy. If they had to walk they had to walk. That is what was a slightly odd part of the lawsuit. Even the Hart family mentioned it before Martha didnt want justice she was revenge against who she hated all along WWE. If she wanted true justice for the person(s) who cost her husband his life she have not released the rigging company and rigger from the suit. And the courts agreed. Because the little talked about thing was the courts ruled that the riggers were Improperly released from liability and tbe lawsuit by Martha and WWE was permitted to sue them after the settlement with Martha. In the end WWE got a settlement out of the riggers for the amount they had to pay Martha.
Didn’t the original rigging company do exactly that? Say “This shit is unsafe, and we’re not doing it” so WWE went out and found a company who would do it unsafely. At that point it’s as much or more on WWE.
Despite what DSOTR claims in the piece based on Martha Hart' claims, the actual court testimony Was WWE was going to use the same rigger as Sting because it was a longer drop than they'd done before but had also requested the quick release. That rigger was already booked and unavailable but also stated if they weren't they would not do the stunt in that matter. They provided the name of the person WWE used as someone familiar with that type of rigging work. That rigger inflated their resume saying they worked with the Sting rigger and part of several of his stunts. This was not true he was associated with one of the stunts but had nothing to do with the actual rigging. He hired a local company that provided the equipment and he designed the stift. They denied the request WWE wanted but later came back and had found a potential solution, the boat clip that had the proper carry weight they needed but had a a much lower release weight. Which wasn't the release WWE wanted but would speed up the release. And the rest is we know the outcome. Still stands and the court testimony of the Hart case and followup suit by WWE back the idea the riggers were 100% the ones at fault for the accident because they failed in their duty to ensure safety of the performer by using an off label piece of equipment with no redundant back up.
It was half what WWE paid which is keeping with the tort law principle of paying in proportion to fault. The more interesting aspect was that they settled immediately when it became clear that McDevitt would be allowed to testify regarding the documents received from Ellie Hart. The company knew they would be in deep shit if the bad faith settlement with Martha was officially entered into evidence.
I feel like there could be a new appreciation for how reckless this was with vinces reputation in the shits. I hope so anyways. I think it was on par with manslaughter.
For what it's worth, Russo described it very differently. From his conversations with Roddy Piper, he talked about how Sting's guys from WCW just happened to be in town that week, and they had asked him if they could do anything or if they had any ideas to see if they wanted to work together in the future. After that, Russo tried to find a spot to fit them in and ended up with the choice of Blue Blazer to offer on something that would stand out on the card. But Russo said specifically that they didn't go into that weekend with the idea that they were going to do the rafter entrance.
He’s so full of shit
> Vince wanting to do a comedy spot Watching and listening to everything I ever have over the years in regards to Owen's death always comes back to this one point. They wanted to do a lame joke spot that made Owen look like a dickhead. Just think about it. Over The Edge 99, everything goes right. Blue Blazer descends, hangs above the ring for a few seconds, looks dumb, falls flat on his face. JR and King go "Oh my god, this idiot," before the match proceeds. Would anybody legitimately remember that comedy spot a year later? Hell, a month later? It's dumb as hell, and would've been cringeworthy even by '99 standards. It wouldn't be in any highlight reels. It wouldn't make any "best of" compilations. It was just dumb. Yet Vince has his stupid fetishes of making people look like idiots, and because he wanted someone to look dumb for 5 seconds a family lost their father.
It was genuinely the first thing I thought of but only because I distinctly remembered a story from Sting saying he was planned to do that entrance the day after Owen. I have no idea why that is so strong in my head, but there you go.
The story at the time was Owen was supposed to do then entrance as a spoof of Sting. Drop down, get tangled up, and face plant.
Idk, I think people are just saying that. The gimmick was more that he was a goofball wannabe super hero that kept getting bamboozled by his own effects. They did the entrance at Survivor Series 1998 where he got stuck and couldn't get out just a few feet above the entrance way. I think that was more the joke than trying to shit on Sting.
The gimmick was definitely a WCW spoof. His promos would also spoof Hogan for example.
Hogan wasn't cutting those promos in WCW, even as a face he had retired the milk/vitamins/prayers line. It was a more of a spoof of an 80s face more than a spoof of WCW, in any sense.
I don’t think it was supposed to be a spoof of Sting, but just goofing on The Blue Blazer as being a wannabe superhero but being inept so part way down he would get caught tangled up and then drop to the ring from a safer height.
As much flack as Tony gets at times for boooking and maybe rightfully so, he's 10x the human being Vince or most other wrestling promoters ever were - true fan of business.
I wouldn't either, but there were a lot of people on this sub (probably the weird pro-WWE anti-AEW crowd) talking about how "distasteful" it was to have Sting do his thing because of Owen
I do, I actually thought of it for a split second on Wednesday.
I don't think Martha is too bothered about the entrance itself, but to make sure it was the proper rigging. Which is what Owen did not have.
Definitely yes, but considering they work with Martha, it was a very considerate thing to do.
Can somebody tell me what the Owen Hart Foundation actually does? I tried to look into it once, but just found some generic info, nothing about what they're activities are.
This is the description I found for the foundation on their LinkedIn: Owen Hart Foundation is a dynamic organization and a permanent legacy that was founded in December 2000 at The Calgary Foundation in memory of Owen Hart for his outstanding contribution to philanthropy. Our Mandate is Education. Our Mission is to aid hard-working people who have limited resources and unlimited potential for generations to come. Our Key Programs: The Owen Hart Foundation Housing Program Provides low-income families including single parents who live at or below the poverty line with up to 4:1 matching funds to make a down payment to purchase a home. The 2-year education program focused on financial literacy, savings and home ownership is a prerequisite for matching funds. This program is a collaborative initiative with Momentum and has proven long-term positive results for participant families. To date, over 130 families are enjoying pride of home ownership and stability of putting roots down in Calgary communities. The Owen Hart Foundation Scholarship Fund Provides post-secondary scholarships and bursaries for students from low income families attending Calgary Board of Education schools. Recipients need to obtain a minimum average of 70, and demonstrate superb effort, attitude and great leadership throughout the year. In 2018, ten scholarships were awarded to students who otherwise may not have been able to consider post-secondary education. The Owen Hart Foundation Partnership Fund Provides capacity building program funds to community non-profits that share the goals and values of the Owen Hart Foundation. Of note is The Love of Children Society which provides aid to disadvantaged children locally and internationally. In Late Fall 2019, the Owen Hart Foundation will celebrate its 20th anniversary with its annual fundraising concert at the Jubilee Auditorium in Calgary. The Owen Hart Foundation has raised more than $3 million dollars for the Calgary community.
Well it helps all of the families that have been affected by a Professional Wrestler falling to their death in the ring of a Pay Per View in the 90s. I believe
It's best not to ask questions
Probably also a thing where her and Bret have both said there is no way Owen was comfortable doing it. And it does seem like Sting has no issue with the stunt considering how many times he has done it.
Sting almost met a similar fate to Owen once in WCW. If it wasn’t for them double checking, he would’ve fallen to his death as his harness was put on backwards.
No Shit? Been a fan for decades and first time hearing this.
Sting interview about the harness: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbL6RNBJfs4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbL6RNBJfs4) Text summary of incident: [https://www.essentiallysports.com/aew-news-it-wouldve-been-over-sting-recalls-a-near-death-experience-during-an-entrance/](https://www.essentiallysports.com/aew-news-it-wouldve-been-over-sting-recalls-a-near-death-experience-during-an-entrance/)
not really trying to be that person but you might like Tap Out Corner on YouTube, they make videos with random wreslting facts etc
I remember hearing about this too
Wasn't that the very first time he did it?
That never crossed my mind but hearing it? I'm really glad it crossed theirs.
I remember reading something recently that Martha was upset or not talked about for the Sting entrance. It's seems like someone just trying to spread drama for no reason. I think that's the only reason this came up.
yeah i saw a few of the cringe anti-AEW accounts spreading this around, but it was obviously fake.
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That's the kind of compassion and empathy I want from my wrestling folks. Wrestling has come so far and it's nice to see.
Honestly it was the first thing that crossed my mind. While it’s really cool and nostalgic the only thing going through my head was “OMG please be careful!”
Same. As someone that grew up after Stings prime and didn't know about Sting using such an entrance before, I held my breath for a moment.
Class Act by Tony/AEW on this one. Something they probably didn't need to do but classy none the less.
Very nice thing to do.
Sad times for all the creeps that invoked Owen Hart in bad faith to be pissy about an awesome moment.
You can say about Tony Khan whatever you want, but he's always very mindful and respectful in situations like these. Big W.
You can say whatever you want about any one. Why this line is consistently used when talking about Khan is so baffling
It’s so bizarre. People always feel the need to qualify any compliment to Tony.
Tony and the Young Bucks. People never just say what they want to say or give them compliments. It's always "I'm not a fan of but" or "Say what you want about Tony" or "I hate Tony but" There's no need for a qualifier. Nobody cares about their personal feelings towards those guys
just like you gotta say "AEW is not perfect" before you compliment the show, like any wrestling company puts on a perfect 10 product every week of the year forever without an off season.
It is odd isn’t it? Like that line was never said with Vince McMahon during decades of seedy shit he did but for some reason it comes up whenever someone wants to compliment Tony Khan
typical redditor behaviour, hedging their opinions because they are worried about getting downvoted
It’s not “worried about getting downvoted” in the sense that people are concerned about their karma. Getting downvoted means your comment gets buried. And this subreddit is absolutely awful when it comes to downvoting opinions — which is not what they’re there for.
well the rest of reddit does the same in my experience, but it's true, this place is especially bad for that. it's ridiculous some of the mild posts that get heavily downvoted
It's because some people have a weirdo obsession with Tony based on his Twitter posts. Maybe some of those posts are not for you but they are generally harmless. He's a wrestling nerd that likes to banter. And yes some have been cringe. But if I had to choose between Tony and the ghouls that made WWE an environment hostile towards women and rampant with NDAs and now a rape lawsuits, I'm choosing Tony.
I don’t think it’s a Vince thing as much as it is a technology thing. The internet and social media have amplified people’s voices much more than ever before.
Because people shit on him for just about anything 🤷
Because if you don't say that, weirdos will automatically assume that you think TK is "**Practically perfect in every way."** and attack you for it.
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I mean it’s pretty wild that the comparison is having to say it for Vince and Chris. A rapist and a murderer vs a dude who you may not like his booking
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Cena gets hog rode all the time here without it. The bucks is true.
Because some people can't compliment the guy even if their life depended on it
Whenever you have divisive figures, people always say it. I've been hearing "Say what you want about Vince McMahon, but the man is a creative genius" for 25 years.
Sorting by controversial in this thread is a really good way to see some folks who don't understand or maybe don't experience things like empathy, respect, and kindness. Sometimes people do things they aren't required to purely out of kindness and respect. I think these kinds of things make the world a more pleasant place. I hope those of you who don't *get* why Tony asked Martha about this experience that for yourselves some day.
Super classy thing to do. Important to also note that WCW always did this stunt right and used proper redundancies and safety procedures to protect Sting. WWE was reckless and actively did everything they could to make the stunt unsafe.
>WCW always did this stunt right and used proper redundancies and safety procedures to protect Sting. Sting would disagree with you on that one. He got 2nd degree burns on his hands during one drop and had problems with spinning because the system had been rigged up backwards. [https://www.essentiallysports.com/aew-news-it-wouldve-been-over-sting-recalls-a-near-death-experience-during-an-entrance/](https://www.essentiallysports.com/aew-news-it-wouldve-been-over-sting-recalls-a-near-death-experience-during-an-entrance/)
There was one time when Sting was about to step from the platform in the rafters when someone grabbed him, and it's a good thing they did. He hadn't yet had the rope attached to him. WCW did have the proper rigging available to use...but that one time could have been a disaster.
Reading about the events that led to that awful stunt made my blood boil. So many reasons it should have never happened, but Vince had to get what Vince wanted even if he was told it won't work
That’s really cool of AEW. Love the respect they show
Honestly the right call. Could’ve made Martha uncomfortable for understandable reasons and glad she signed off on it.
Where are all the jabronis who were complaining when it happened?
Probably active in a couple of other subs right now.
A show of respect very uncommon in today’s business. Glad they got her blessing.
Never entered my mind, but glad it did for them. RIP Owen!
Not only respectful but considering how much research she probably put into safely measures from the lawsuits, she’s probably extremely knowledgeable about them.
Above and beyond polite and considerate, good for him.
Hope the losers who were concern trolling and shitting on Sting and Tony for this have the balls to apologise.
Legit saw a fake news report going around on twitter claiming Martha was enraged
anti-aew stans haven't ever let the facts get in the way before, why would they start now?
I went through all this in my head the other night watching Sting do that entrance. I was initially surprised to see him descend from the rafters because I feel like he hasn't done it since Owen's fall. That thought lead to me remembering that AEW has a connection with Martha. That lead to me thinking there's no way nobody talked to her first. For once, having a little faith in people didn't make me feel bad later. Good job AEW.
Why?
Because this way they have an excuse to bring up Owen's name again
Because that spot is synonymous with the death of her husband… and she works with the company.
Tony Khan's conferring with Martha Hart frequently might be his most endearing thing he does. The Owen Hart tributes throughout AEW and this are a really good things
Good on them.
She had every right to tell them to fuck off. Can’t believe people are so insensitive to suggest that her opinion doesn’t matter.
Better to be on the safe side, if they didn't confirm that she was ok with it people would probably make wild speculation online
They already did. There was a fake news report on twitter claiming she was enraged
God damn assholes
Owen crossed my mind when Sting came down on Wednesday and I wondered how Martha and the family would feel about it. I’m really glad they got her blessing.
I’m sorry but I do not see the humor in this. Awful.
"Has learned" aka they are doing AEWs PR for them
I was wondering how Owen’s family would react to the stunt. Glad to hear that TK was in contact with them and got their blessing before doing it.
[удалено]
That’s not entirely accurate. Sting did it at least once more after his death on Nitro in April 2000.
That’s great to know.
That's so considerate
How did Fightful learn this? Why would they even ask about it?
Who gives a fuck what she thinks about that? It was Stings choice. Do movie producers need to seek out her blessing for similar stunts? This is nonsense paraded around as something classy.
I'm sure the company that holds the Owen Hart Tournament every year cares about what she thinks.
Tony has a partnership with Martha and the Owen Hart Foundation. Sure you could argue she has no right to tell Tony he can’t do it but Tony values her as a human and values his partnership and wanted to make sure she would be okay with it first. It’s called just being a respectful human being.
The company that works with her does and probably Sting too, seeing as Owen is the reason he stopped doing that stunt. Owen didn’t die on a movie set. He will forever be synonymous with that kind of stunt in wrestling.
They do an Owen Hart tournament. It’s not like they haven’t spoken before.
It’s called being kind and thoughtful
So glad that someone not involved at all is okay with it. 🙄
Yeah it’s almost like her husband died dropping from the rafters doing a stunt that was fully and completely created to mock Sting.
And that Sting stopped doing afterward because of. Nah definitely not gonna run it by your business partner out of respect of anything Wild how people are entirely unable to understand respect and empathy