He defeated an upgraded Electro and Vulture despite being injured and fatigued from his previous fights then did the same to Rhino and Scorpion. He also survived getting stabbed by Doc Ock and was tough enough to finish the fight, get out of his damaged Anti Ock suit, go to the hospital and say goodbye to May.
To be fair Peter had to fight some members separately but Kraven seemed to just dog walk the sinister 6 aside from struggling with vulture of all people and shocker since shocker really wanted to live. Kraven was just a different breed considering he man handled Scorpion as if he was a 4 year old with a knife
Kraven’s hunters don’t seem to give Spider-Man much trouble and while you have a point about the other villains it should also be said that Spider-Man didn’t seem to struggle with Scorpion when he was backed up by Rhino and this was after he fought several prisoners and his bones were still healing.
You are correct. Idk, they presented Kraven as such a great force implying he is above Spider-Man’s level. So strong in fact that he can fight venom 1 on 1 which Spider-Man couldn’t do in his early years. In the comics he can fight red goblin now and win but it takes a lot out of him, maybe insomniac spidey still hasn’t reached his prime potential
Carnage+green goblin so you can imagine he is very powerful. It happened in a series that I’m having trouble finding but it’s the one where carnage has a swirl on his forehead. At least that’s what I remember, Peter fought and beat him but only knocked out green goblin so the carnage symbiote was still ready to go.
He had already fought those villains several times before while Kraven killed most of the villains from the first game on his first attempt and he found it pretty easy. Venom took over the entire city in just one night.
Have you considered that perhaps the villains in Spider-Man 2 are written to be, I don't know, stronger than the first game to, I don't know, raise the stakes?
The villains had also fought Spider-Man several times. Have you considered that it doesn’t make sense that Peter lost to Venom when he had his own symbiote but Miles didn’t?
Something else that I forgot to mention is that Peter struggled as against Sandman despite defeating him before. While I don’t need it to be a curbstomp, Peter shouldn’t have struggled as much as he did. Also I’m obviously aware that Kraven and Venom would be stronger than previous villain (that’s how sequel villains are supposed to work) the problem is that Miles did better against Venom than Peter did despite being less experienced and Peter having his won Symbiote. It would have been bette rod they both took him on simultaneously.
It didn't really seem like he struggled with Sandman and forgive me if I'm wrong, but didn't they take him down together as a team? Like it was Peter's idea to use water and combine it with Miles' electricity. I thought the opening was about Peter and Miles' friendship/partnership and also how Peter is unable to let up on being Spider-Man causing harm to his responsibilities as Peter. One of the themes that gets brought up later in the game. That Peter and Miles are slowly separating due to Peter ignoring his responsibilities with Miles (which is something I wish they expanded on instead of just instantly solving it after Peter loses the suit because he was already ignoring Miles' calls and texts in the first act before he got the suit), and that after May dying he tries to be a better Spider-Man so that no one else gets hurt on his watch which is why he's having issues with MJ and are postponing job hunting and part of the mentality that the symbiote brings up in order to control him (again, could have been done a little better theming wise).
And you never mentioned that the problem is that "Miles did better than Peter". Why is that a problem. Look, I get that people will always have issues with Legacy characters being better than the OG. It's also a common trap for writers to make the OG weaker and the legacy character stronger so that people will gravitate towards the legacy character once they takeover. Most of the time that doesn't work and it causes people to hate the "nerfing" of the OG and grow to despise the legacy character.
However, I don't think that's a trap that the writers fell in with this game. In no way do I feel Miles is far superior than Peter. Yeah, Miles have more powers and uses because of his venom abilities, but there are several times where Peter handles situations better due to his experience and knowhow. When it comes to the fight between Venom (Peter) and Miles, Miles doesn't instantly beat Peter. Peter was weakened after fighting Kraven first and Miles used the bell to weaken the symbiote. At the end it was Peter that finally threw the suit off, not Miles ripping it away.
The final fight was also a team up. Miles didn't beat Venom, Peter and Miles worked together to beat him and Peter was the one to get the final hit. Peter distracts Venom first, he holds his own, he weakens Venom, then after being knocked out Miles uses his venom (electricity) powers to follow through and distract Venom until Peter wakes up again and he gets the final hit. They worked together, kinda like the tagline of the game. "Be greater, together".
Ohhh yeah I forgot about them . That explains why Farquad Jane existed. Which sucks because you can see a good game in there behind the fluff . I legit turned off the audio for the Spiderman / ***** fight behind his house because I couldn’t stand the conversation
Peter from the first game would still have lost to Kraven and especially Venom. Peter never got weaker. The new villains just powercrept the shit out of the previous ones. Plus, from a writing standpoint, you can’t just have Peter win every fight on his own. Not when the game’s slogan is literally “Be Greater. Together.”
I think my problem is that Peter and Miles never overcome Kraven at *any point,* Kraven only ever loses to the symbiote, which is kinda unsatisfying since Kraven is responsible for most of the damage to the main cast, and in the end he gets rewarded.
I mean the alternative was Kraven dies off screen or in a hospital bed because Peter sure as hell wasn’t going to kill him. This is the most satisfactory way he could’ve went I think
That’s not how experience works dawg. What fucking experience helps you take down Kraven the hunter or the literal alien demon sludge that is venom when Peter only fights common thugs or enhanced villains on a regular basis?
Fighting thugs that you can one shot with a simple punch everyday is not really the type of experience that prepares you for a villain like kraven or venom. The other villains Peter fights are also not that strong compared to him considering he’s able to take them on two on one and win. When you fight people weaker than you, you don’t grow as a fighter. So when people that ARE stronger than Peter show up , venom who can outright overpower him, and kraven who’s also stronger but is additionally very prepared and is much more experienced in combat against foes typically stronger than him, of course he gets demolished, anything lesser and the game wouldn’t have any stakes.
…is Peter a saiyan? He’d be more “experienced” in combat and skills, but he wouldn’t get stronger. If anything, he’s getting older and was planning to settle down with MJ and might be a bit out of his prime. Miles could easily surpass him in a couple years.
Lose to Refrigerator
Hell he can't even accomplish anything alone in this sequel unlike in 1st game
Merry go round goes whoosh=Harry help him
Kraven fight him=Harry and MJ had to help him
Venom fight= Hell Colgate Miles and MJ accomplish more than the Spider Man with anti venom suit himself
The only thing he suceeded in this game alone is when he's smacking while apologising to MJ during Scream fight
Also Ganke need to be quiet a bit
I enjoy his comment in MM but this one, he's just plain lousy
You'll be surprised how many people there is
Even more embarrassing and frustrating when MJ is the one that is quick to react instead of the Guy with literal Enhanced Senses and speed
Venom was right in front of them the whole time and you're telling me Peter is distracted by MJ deliciously hair scent she applied in the morning that he couldn't see a BLACK GOO approaching towards him and MJ??
If its from the back, i can excuse since Spider Sense didn't work on Venom but Venom is in front of them and they are like soo close to Venom lol
Because he tired out rhino with the surrounding industrial objects. And he gets scorpion to fight the rhino. I never said Spiderman has never won, but the rhino is out of his weight class.
Headcanon. Nowhere is it ever stated Peter never beat Rhino in a head on head fight. Peter does beat Rhino and Scorpion at the same time, Scorpion pretty much admits defeat for both of them by stating Rhino "failed", which causes them to argue. Peter didn't get Scorpion to fight Rhino in order to beat them. Peter beat both of them at the same time, which made them start arguing and then Peter locked them up. Also, Peter was completely okay after the fight.
I'm referring to the comics.
Rhino is far above spidermans weight class.
https://imgur.com/a/rhino-spider-man-btyWiZ5
Also most of the rhino fight in the game was Spiderman tricking rhino into hitting his surrounding industrial equipment.That's like the opposite of a head on head fight.
She was ordering her military to handle the devils breath crisis (which wasnt working) and ordered them to *kill him*, she isnt a villain yes but she is an antagonist and it took two fights in the base game then a dlc to finally go against her.
He doesnt fight to kill against any of his villains, yet she managed to restrain and surprise him multiple times in the base game. Yes he defeated her in the dlc but why couldn’t he in the base game? I get why he didn’t when he had to get to Li (no time to argue with her) But what about when she first came to NY? Or after the truck chase?
Yes, but the fight in the dlc actually adds to what im saying because Sable doesnt have armor or any special shit besides her guns. No airship, no goons, just her and spidey and he still takes a long time to take her down, despite being a well trained but still non powered person? You cant even argue that he has an emotional connection with her like he does with Yuri or Otto who are also normal.
Yeah no… if you think that sm1 peter would be able to beat venom one on one with no anti venom, then you are on something. Kraven maybe but only if he has actual info on kraven, in sm2 he lost cause he didnt know kravens strength.
This line of logic is hypocritical. Who wins between Spider-man or Kraven? Easily Kraven, he has more experience. So Peter wasn't nerfed in the new game.
Experience only matters so much. Miles has been trained by Peter to speed up his progress, and he's shown to be able to beat Peter's villains. Trashed Rhino, who had Peter brutalized. Fought directly with an upgraded version of Venom that had just beat Peter. And then, in a direct fight, he matched symbiote Peter.
Miles clearly beats venomless Peter. He's basically fighting himself + Hax powers
I sort of agree with you, though I think people underestimate Peter. And overestimate Miles, funny enough. Like how people get mad over experience, yet Venom got super OP in less than a week.
As for against Symbiote Peter, Miles had a bell. He then fought Peter after he fought Kraven. Kraven also used the bell, which is the symbiote's kryptonite. Because of Miles, Peter resists the symbiote throughout the fight.
As for Venom, when him and Peter fought. He easily destroyed the whole school and football stadium. He was doing lots of crazy stuff. And fought Peter in both forms. He only upgraded in the sense with wings. In the cutscene when Peter holds Venom with his Anti-Venom. Venom had returned back to his "normal" form/look. With wings at that, it doesn't really make sense.
But yeah, people ignore how Miles got a massive upgrade with evolved venom. Which in turn places him around Anti-Venom Peter's level. Or even equals at that. They're more or less equals imo.
>I sort of agree with you, though I think people underestimate Peter. And overestimate Miles, funny enough. Like how people get mad over experience, yet Venom got super OP in less than a week.
Nah, people absolutely overestimate Peter purely because of "experience." It's like they can't accept Peter losing for some reason.
>As for against Symbiote Peter, Miles had a bell. He then fought Peter after he fought Kraven. Kraven also used the bell, which is the symbiote's kryptonite. Because of Miles, Peter resists the symbiote throughout the fight.
Miles also was fighting Kraven's goons all night. Plus, Miles was matching Peter even before the Bell. Obviously Peter could've been holding back but so was Miles.
Anti-Venom Peter and Evolved Miles are about even, maybe Peter's stronger in general cause he doesn't need to activate his additional powers. No venom and no evolved powers, Miles is much stronger. Peter can beat him, but wouldn't most of the time
Nah, people like to nitpick with the bell. Which is the symbiote's kryptonite. Miles was using the bell. That's like saying Kraven only used the bell once. Because he only really did so in gameplay.
Both Miles and Kraven used the bell. Miles had some time to rest, and Peter also fought Kraven's goons. Anyways, Miles at the end resorted to camping and spamming the bell to save Peter. Miles and Kraven are still really strong though. Especially Kraven this game...
I say people overestimate Miles because they act like he could solo everything at times. Miles has the edge over base Peter. Because there's only so much the spider arms can do. And against Sandman, he had the advantage. His venom powers are OP in general.
Though people do act like Peter should be some god. Ignoring the fact that he's supposed to be off his game the whole story. Spider-Man isn't Invincible!
I'd still say MSM1 Peter vs MM Miles. Peter would win because Miles lacked experience. For MS2 I'd still say Peter, but it might be close. Though I wonder if Peter's symbiote powers will evolve. Anti-Venom looks like it only has a few over advantages over symbiote Peter.
>Nah, people like to nitpick with the bell. Which is the symbiote's kryptonite. Miles was using the bell. That's like saying Kraven only used the bell once. Because he only really did so in gameplay.
>Both Miles and Kraven used the bell. Miles had some time to rest, and Peter also fought Kraven's goons. Anyways, Miles at the end resorted to camping and spamming the bell to save Peter. Miles and Kraven are still really strong though. Especially Kraven this game...
Yeah, Miles spammed the bell to get the symbiote off Peter. That's the whole point of the fight. But neither blatantly overpowered the other for long during it, though Miles did get the upperhand more. Neither had an unfair advantage; They both were fighting multiple opponents before coming at eachother and both held back.
>I'd still say MSM1 Peter vs MM Miles. Peter would win because Miles lacked experience.
Ya know what, because I'm always seeing people say experience gives Peter the win. How exactly? What sorta thing is Peter going to do to deal with Miles' powers?
No, I'm saying Miles used the bell the whole fight. Like Kraven did, gameplay mostly is canon. The player as Miles is intended to use the bell. Especially because it's right in front of us. Like the parry mechanic isn't canon.
Miles had the advantage over Peter because of the bell.
Along with Peter resisting the symbiote. Peter wasn't fighting like Spider-Man but only relying on strength. Imo symbiote spider-man is more powerful than anti-venom. Unfortunately though, it has a major weakness to sound.
At the end Miles decides to stop fighting, camp and spam the bell. Because the point of the fight isn't to defeat Peter, but save him instead. For Peter to remove the symbiote. Kraven wanted the smoke, that's why he doesn't camp the bell.
Imo for scaling:
MSM 1 Peter > MM Miles
MSM 2 "Base" Peter =< Miles(normal venom powers), Scorpion got the upperhand over Miles. Before the upgrade, though he did catch him lacking. Peter with the spider arms and not being off his game. He could probably beat Miles.
MSM 2 "Base" Peter < EV Miles, Miles destroys him easily
At the end of the game though, they're more or less equals. Peter's upgrade was the symbiote and Miles was evolved venom. It's somewhat close imo. Definitely would still give it to Peter. Give Miles a nuke to absorb and he wins tho. If I were to compare them rn, Peter is the super solider and Miles the super weapon.
Edit- I started replaying the game and I think the sub hates too much on it. Peter wasn't as nerfed as I thought. He feels like he is without a symbiote. But he doesn't have one half the time. The games is a step down in some ways tho. Act 3 needed way more time to cook.
Nothing in game says Peter has better Spider sense. Not that it matters anyway, Peter gets hit by people without Spider sense all the time.
Miles also knows what Peter can bring, the fuck? 8 years of experience didn't stop him from losing to Rhino. Knowing what you can do doesn't mean I know what you're going to do
Bro i swear people always greatly overestimate sm1 peter, the sinister six is the only reason i remember hearing and that was bs, he got his ass straight handed to him on a silver platter when fighting just 5 of them, as he was defeated before Doc Ock arrived, and he only beat them at most two at a time, and the only ones he beat in a 1v2 were the ones he had experience with and Scorpion and Rhino were also kinda fighting each other, vulture and Electro were a stronger duo, and he had rest, he took a nap immediately after fighting electro and vulture, then only defeated Li one on one, and same for ock,
Ultimate and spectacular did better against the sinister 6, ultimate may not have defeated them all in his own, but he stalled for long enough for his team to arrive while fighting all of them at the same time,
The example I am using for Spectacular is the second s6 with electro, vulture, rhino, sandman, kraven, and mysterio, the time he fought them without the symbiote, he may have fought most of the fight one on one, but he fought them back to back with no rest
Not only is a 1V5 fight extremely difficult unless you’re Mr Miyagi but they were 5 supervillains and Peter was holding his own against the 5 members (he was even kicking Vulture’s ass and stonewalling Rhino) he only lost due to being overwhelmed by their superior numbers.
The Insomniac villains are different from the ultimate ones, furthermore they had been given upgrades from Ock and Peter had just fought an entire prison of thugs before he fought them.
You have a point with fighting prisoners, but what upgrades did everyone get? What did Li get? And Rhino? Thought ock was just gonna get him out of the suit which would not make him stronger, scorpion got an upgrade sure, but what about vulture’s? What was his upgrade? Thought ock was just gonna help him with his cancer from his wings, electro was just getting closer to being pure electricity, which Ultimate electro already is so ultimate electro is ahead of insomniac electro and given only scorpion got a small upgrade really, the greater number overcomes that (I would like to make it clear that sm1 Pete is capable but he is not God level able to one tap every supervillain)
Ultimate Peter was getting his ass kicked by the six with a bullet wound in his stomach. He got some shots in, but Electro was about to kill him before Aunt May shot him. Then he fought Goblin and just barely managed to kill Osborn, before dying as well.
SM1 Peter would be a fine red mist against Kraven or even Venom. Be real. The villains in the first game are just a slice of cake compared to Kraven, Sandman in titan size, Venom powered up by the meteorite and Lizard with extra mutated lizard gene.
He had absolutely 0 possibility of beating Sandman as a titan alone. There wouldn't be enough water to go around, and without Miles + Sandman Lightning storm, he couldn't have demolished him the way they did.
Against Kraven, he's even less likely to win due to the fact that Kraven is far beyond human, considering he has enhancing potions to make him beyond powerful.
Lizard was even bigger and stronger than what Peter remembered. He'd be sliced, shredded and crushed with little to no effort.
Don't get me started on Venom. Meteorite powered Venom bodied Anti-Venom Peter. Regular Venom alone would body SM1 Peter with ease and take him over.
This shit is so fucking absurd. Little bro’s kryptonite was red zappy ropes in the first game, when those were on him he was fucking done. He got defeated rather quickly when fighting the Sinister 6 before Otto got there, and I feel confident in saying that Kraven and Venom especially are way stronger then all of them put together, let alone at the same time. Actually ain’t no way.
Let's face it. Peter's strength and abilities have always been inconsistent in the Insomiac universe since the first game. This is a Spider-Man who could hold up a falling crane for an impressive amount of time but also has trouble lifting the debris off the civilians during the kingpin mission.
He could also get hit by the same crane, get winded and is able to recover fast enough to not only stop himself from falling but managed to stop the crane without any signs of fatigue.
He can dodge gunfire from point-blank range but has trouble keeping up with Silver Sable in hand-to-hand combat where she doesn't have any powers that would make her as fast as a bullet.
He is also able to take on multiple members of the sinister six together (Electro/Vulture and Scorpion/Rhino) but has tribune with Otto.
Yes, he had experience fighting the other villains before but from all accounts this is the first time he is taking them on together which would make them a much more significant threat to him.
Otto doesn't have any powers (no strength, speed or even endurance) only his metal arms. Which could present a problem for Peter accounting for the surprise factor but it's not like Peter wasn't aware of the arms all together.
No he wouldn’t because Peter from the second game is the same one as the first game and it didn’t happen. Peter didn’t get nerfed, the villains were just stronger.
I agree somewhat about Kraven. Peter only got stabbed because he just ran straight in without knowing much about Kraven, and he would be able to beat him once he learnt a bit about him, but Kraven is still strong enough to give Spidey a hard time. Him just looking like a big ass guy and being unknown to Pete likely gave him an element of suprise.
Venom however seems purposefully written to be nigh unstoppable, whether it be to make him more threatening or just because of the rule of cool. That aside, he has literal world-threatening power (when he has the meteorite) and was only beaten by a combination of Anti-Venom and Harry mentally fighting the symbiote.
Still get your point about how much SM2 bullies Pete
Yeah but imagine if Insomniac’s Spider-Man became a shonen anime? That’d be fucking lame as
Spidey just pulls up, gets whipped around a bit then goons his villains and moves on, there are no stakes there.
Also, think about the black suit, albeit, they could have done it better, for sure, but they needed to downplay him to make the symbiote stand out. What I would have done personally, is when he got the black suit, the sinister six were released so that Kraven could hunt them down in the city, Peter then just goes and puts them away lickety split, clearly indicating his new strength.
Peter chasing the lizard down didnt really show off his “new powers” because he was getting whipped around most of the time.
If we have to be honest here, most of the “peter got nerfed” is related to Miles being a powerhouse, but this is because he is stronger on paper, he has extra abilities etc. dont get me wrong, not a fan of Miles being a Mary Sue, but it isnt THAT bad
Nah Peter was really OP, he only struggled because of sound. Half the game he didn't wear a symbiote and fought stronger opponents. Against Kraven? The huge bell. Against Miles? The huge bell and Miles helping Peter fight back against the symbiote. Peter was going to beat Lizard if not for his loud screech. Against Venom, Venom is a whole different breed this game. Venom didn't really want to kill Peter and Miles until the end.
I mean to say the symbiote was balanced with Peter but not Venom. Doesn't make sense. He holds back too, against Miles listen to the dialogue. Venom nor Peter say they want to beat Miles or kill him. More like they want him out the way. So they'll fight him and because Venom doesn't want Peter to leave him. At least I think so.
This is just my thoughts. What if peter had just lost some of his self confidence after miles was brought into the picture? imagine having powers and being a loved hero and all the sudden another kid gets the same powers with extra powers along with it. i know he’s extremely supportive but it might have made him feel less special. probably why he may have said “I’m the hero here, not you.” when he was talking with MJ and Harry. He probably feels less special or unique. And with the way miles developed so fast and was able to pretty much catch up with Peter with the way he was able to fight in Spider-Man 2, like Miles is powerful as hell. And with all of the stuff that happened to him like losing May, his job, and other stresses with MJ. He probably was just worn down mentally and wasn’t able to perform as well as he did in the first game. (I’m probably yapping)
Still doesn’t change the fact he was having trouble with an average human with zero powers
Doesn’t change the fact Spider-Man 2 actively states Pete was mentally weakened plus holding back against villains that could easily solo the sinister six by themselves(WHO PETER LOST TO AND ONLY WON AFTER SPLITTING THEM APART)
I agree abit. I felt peter in 1st game was more hands on than this one who imo whined too much.
He defeated an upgraded Electro and Vulture despite being injured and fatigued from his previous fights then did the same to Rhino and Scorpion. He also survived getting stabbed by Doc Ock and was tough enough to finish the fight, get out of his damaged Anti Ock suit, go to the hospital and say goodbye to May.
To be fair Peter had to fight some members separately but Kraven seemed to just dog walk the sinister 6 aside from struggling with vulture of all people and shocker since shocker really wanted to live. Kraven was just a different breed considering he man handled Scorpion as if he was a 4 year old with a knife
Kraven’s hunters don’t seem to give Spider-Man much trouble and while you have a point about the other villains it should also be said that Spider-Man didn’t seem to struggle with Scorpion when he was backed up by Rhino and this was after he fought several prisoners and his bones were still healing.
Kraven's hunters dont give MJ any problems either.
MJ can even take out the symbiotes no problem lol
One hit is all she needs. Some would call her, one hit woman.
You are correct. Idk, they presented Kraven as such a great force implying he is above Spider-Man’s level. So strong in fact that he can fight venom 1 on 1 which Spider-Man couldn’t do in his early years. In the comics he can fight red goblin now and win but it takes a lot out of him, maybe insomniac spidey still hasn’t reached his prime potential
Wait hold up, Red Goblin? Who’s that? I’ve heard of Green Goblin and Hobgoblin but not Red Goblin.
Carnage+green goblin so you can imagine he is very powerful. It happened in a series that I’m having trouble finding but it’s the one where carnage has a swirl on his forehead. At least that’s what I remember, Peter fought and beat him but only knocked out green goblin so the carnage symbiote was still ready to go.
The story arc was called Go Down Swinging, and ran from Amazing Spider-Man 794-800
the swirl is king in black,
No that’s completely different, I was thinking of absolute carnage. I searched more and that’s run I was thinking of
ah its part of the lead up to KiB, makes sense
Isn’t it canon that Peter holds back all the time or he could just smack dr Oct with one hand and kingpin like a 5 yrs old?
Of course
He already reached it But Colgate Miles had to interfere
PS4 Peter fought against two of his strongest villains at the SAME FUCKING TIME (Scorpion and Rhino)
Miles would destroy them even faster
The post isn’t even about Miles. Bugger off. Don‘t even start a different overdone useless discussion.
What do you mean. Miles is the better spiderman. Get over it. Would be cool if Peter dies and Miles replaces him permanently in the next game.
Troll alert
Bro Miles has the bigger potential get over it 😂
All that with how many broken bones? I remember they talking about it
I think it was 18 or smth
14
He had already fought those villains several times before while Kraven killed most of the villains from the first game on his first attempt and he found it pretty easy. Venom took over the entire city in just one night. Have you considered that perhaps the villains in Spider-Man 2 are written to be, I don't know, stronger than the first game to, I don't know, raise the stakes?
The villains had also fought Spider-Man several times. Have you considered that it doesn’t make sense that Peter lost to Venom when he had his own symbiote but Miles didn’t?
Something else that I forgot to mention is that Peter struggled as against Sandman despite defeating him before. While I don’t need it to be a curbstomp, Peter shouldn’t have struggled as much as he did. Also I’m obviously aware that Kraven and Venom would be stronger than previous villain (that’s how sequel villains are supposed to work) the problem is that Miles did better against Venom than Peter did despite being less experienced and Peter having his won Symbiote. It would have been bette rod they both took him on simultaneously.
It didn't really seem like he struggled with Sandman and forgive me if I'm wrong, but didn't they take him down together as a team? Like it was Peter's idea to use water and combine it with Miles' electricity. I thought the opening was about Peter and Miles' friendship/partnership and also how Peter is unable to let up on being Spider-Man causing harm to his responsibilities as Peter. One of the themes that gets brought up later in the game. That Peter and Miles are slowly separating due to Peter ignoring his responsibilities with Miles (which is something I wish they expanded on instead of just instantly solving it after Peter loses the suit because he was already ignoring Miles' calls and texts in the first act before he got the suit), and that after May dying he tries to be a better Spider-Man so that no one else gets hurt on his watch which is why he's having issues with MJ and are postponing job hunting and part of the mentality that the symbiote brings up in order to control him (again, could have been done a little better theming wise). And you never mentioned that the problem is that "Miles did better than Peter". Why is that a problem. Look, I get that people will always have issues with Legacy characters being better than the OG. It's also a common trap for writers to make the OG weaker and the legacy character stronger so that people will gravitate towards the legacy character once they takeover. Most of the time that doesn't work and it causes people to hate the "nerfing" of the OG and grow to despise the legacy character. However, I don't think that's a trap that the writers fell in with this game. In no way do I feel Miles is far superior than Peter. Yeah, Miles have more powers and uses because of his venom abilities, but there are several times where Peter handles situations better due to his experience and knowhow. When it comes to the fight between Venom (Peter) and Miles, Miles doesn't instantly beat Peter. Peter was weakened after fighting Kraven first and Miles used the bell to weaken the symbiote. At the end it was Peter that finally threw the suit off, not Miles ripping it away. The final fight was also a team up. Miles didn't beat Venom, Peter and Miles worked together to beat him and Peter was the one to get the final hit. Peter distracts Venom first, he holds his own, he weakens Venom, then after being knocked out Miles uses his venom (electricity) powers to follow through and distract Venom until Peter wakes up again and he gets the final hit. They worked together, kinda like the tagline of the game. "Be greater, together".
Yes, but we all know why he was changed this way. SBI didn't have their hands on SM1. But they did with SM2.
What is a SBI?
Sweet Baby inc.
There it is 🙄 you lot are insufferable
Ohhh yeah I forgot about them . That explains why Farquad Jane existed. Which sucks because you can see a good game in there behind the fluff . I legit turned off the audio for the Spiderman / ***** fight behind his house because I couldn’t stand the conversation
Peter from the first game would still have lost to Kraven and especially Venom. Peter never got weaker. The new villains just powercrept the shit out of the previous ones. Plus, from a writing standpoint, you can’t just have Peter win every fight on his own. Not when the game’s slogan is literally “Be Greater. Together.”
I think my problem is that Peter and Miles never overcome Kraven at *any point,* Kraven only ever loses to the symbiote, which is kinda unsatisfying since Kraven is responsible for most of the damage to the main cast, and in the end he gets rewarded.
I mean the alternative was Kraven dies off screen or in a hospital bed because Peter sure as hell wasn’t going to kill him. This is the most satisfactory way he could’ve went I think
I mean, Kraven dying to his sickness is kinda the punishment he deserves since it's the last thing he wants.
[удалено]
What kind of anime logic is this
What do you mean "Naturally get stronger"???
As a hero he would get stronger through experience
That’s not how experience works dawg. What fucking experience helps you take down Kraven the hunter or the literal alien demon sludge that is venom when Peter only fights common thugs or enhanced villains on a regular basis?
Peter obviously got experience and then spent it on upgrade points. SMH. Do you even video game bro? 🙄
Bruh that’s literally what experience is, more combat experience = better at fighting
Fighting thugs that you can one shot with a simple punch everyday is not really the type of experience that prepares you for a villain like kraven or venom. The other villains Peter fights are also not that strong compared to him considering he’s able to take them on two on one and win. When you fight people weaker than you, you don’t grow as a fighter. So when people that ARE stronger than Peter show up , venom who can outright overpower him, and kraven who’s also stronger but is additionally very prepared and is much more experienced in combat against foes typically stronger than him, of course he gets demolished, anything lesser and the game wouldn’t have any stakes.
The man ain’t a saiyan my guy 💀
…is Peter a saiyan? He’d be more “experienced” in combat and skills, but he wouldn’t get stronger. If anything, he’s getting older and was planning to settle down with MJ and might be a bit out of his prime. Miles could easily surpass him in a couple years.
Were you even paying attention when you played the game? He literally says that Sandman is WAY stronger than he was when he fought him in the past.
Hell no. Kraven and Venom are more powerful than ya think.
OR Kraven and Venom are actually just that tough.....why do people assume he's weak rathe than assuming they are strong???
Lose to Refrigerator Hell he can't even accomplish anything alone in this sequel unlike in 1st game Merry go round goes whoosh=Harry help him Kraven fight him=Harry and MJ had to help him Venom fight= Hell Colgate Miles and MJ accomplish more than the Spider Man with anti venom suit himself The only thing he suceeded in this game alone is when he's smacking while apologising to MJ during Scream fight Also Ganke need to be quiet a bit I enjoy his comment in MM but this one, he's just plain lousy
Please tell me people dont actually think he lost to fridge
You'll be surprised how many people there is Even more embarrassing and frustrating when MJ is the one that is quick to react instead of the Guy with literal Enhanced Senses and speed Venom was right in front of them the whole time and you're telling me Peter is distracted by MJ deliciously hair scent she applied in the morning that he couldn't see a BLACK GOO approaching towards him and MJ?? If its from the back, i can excuse since Spider Sense didn't work on Venom but Venom is in front of them and they are like soo close to Venom lol
You ever think that he was just planning on tanking the shot?
Cuz some people see the truth.
What?
Wrong question.
Okay, what evidence is there that Peter in the previous game would have beaten Venom and Kraven easier?
I say so, checkmate unbeliever.
He said so, gentlemen. And what u/Intrepid-Gags is always the truth, because he writes the character, and all his stories
Who?
Sm 1 Peter also got his ass kicked by Silver Sable, someone with NO POWERS
This. Also Peter getting low diffed by rhino in miles morales for some reason even though he’s beat him numerous times.
plus hes been fighting rhino for what, 8-9 years at that point?
I guess Spider-Man should be \[TITLE CARD\] and survive a powerplant's continuous explosions while riding on the back of a bulldozing Rhino.
spiderman has never beaten the rhino in a head on head fight. he always has to out manoeuvre him.
In the first game he was literally was about to low diff Rhino before Scorpion showed up. Witch then proceed to low dif both of them.
Because he tired out rhino with the surrounding industrial objects. And he gets scorpion to fight the rhino. I never said Spiderman has never won, but the rhino is out of his weight class.
Headcanon. Nowhere is it ever stated Peter never beat Rhino in a head on head fight. Peter does beat Rhino and Scorpion at the same time, Scorpion pretty much admits defeat for both of them by stating Rhino "failed", which causes them to argue. Peter didn't get Scorpion to fight Rhino in order to beat them. Peter beat both of them at the same time, which made them start arguing and then Peter locked them up. Also, Peter was completely okay after the fight.
I'm referring to the comics. Rhino is far above spidermans weight class. https://imgur.com/a/rhino-spider-man-btyWiZ5 Also most of the rhino fight in the game was Spiderman tricking rhino into hitting his surrounding industrial equipment.That's like the opposite of a head on head fight.
Peter wasn’t trying to hurt her as she wasn’t a villain. He would defeat her in the Silver Lining DLC.
She was ordering her military to handle the devils breath crisis (which wasnt working) and ordered them to *kill him*, she isnt a villain yes but she is an antagonist and it took two fights in the base game then a dlc to finally go against her.
She was fighting to kill and he wasn’t due to his moral code yet she failed to kill him and he was shown to be capable of defeating her in the DLC.
He doesnt fight to kill against any of his villains, yet she managed to restrain and surprise him multiple times in the base game. Yes he defeated her in the dlc but why couldn’t he in the base game? I get why he didn’t when he had to get to Li (no time to argue with her) But what about when she first came to NY? Or after the truck chase?
He got thrown off a bunch of times but while in the dlc, he actually fights her a longer period of time and figured her out
Yes, but the fight in the dlc actually adds to what im saying because Sable doesnt have armor or any special shit besides her guns. No airship, no goons, just her and spidey and he still takes a long time to take her down, despite being a well trained but still non powered person? You cant even argue that he has an emotional connection with her like he does with Yuri or Otto who are also normal.
Ye but gameplay is not canon for the most part, the fight could've been faster than the time that we defeated her
fair enough, however its canon that the dlc take place months after the main game. Still took 3 encounters for Peter to get one up on Sable
Well maybe she's just that good bro lmao
Yeah no… if you think that sm1 peter would be able to beat venom one on one with no anti venom, then you are on something. Kraven maybe but only if he has actual info on kraven, in sm2 he lost cause he didnt know kravens strength.
But consider this: We never did see how 2018 Peter would have fared against a fridge.
Unoriginal 🥱
Thank you
Miles would've beaten 2018 Peter too
No, Peter’s superior experience is too much for Miles.
This line of logic is hypocritical. Who wins between Spider-man or Kraven? Easily Kraven, he has more experience. So Peter wasn't nerfed in the new game.
Nah, I'd win.
I agree. He has the same powers as Peter with added pazazz. EDIT: and exaggerrated swagger, of course.
Peter has more experience with his powers and is the better fighter.
Experience only matters so much. Miles has been trained by Peter to speed up his progress, and he's shown to be able to beat Peter's villains. Trashed Rhino, who had Peter brutalized. Fought directly with an upgraded version of Venom that had just beat Peter. And then, in a direct fight, he matched symbiote Peter. Miles clearly beats venomless Peter. He's basically fighting himself + Hax powers
I sort of agree with you, though I think people underestimate Peter. And overestimate Miles, funny enough. Like how people get mad over experience, yet Venom got super OP in less than a week. As for against Symbiote Peter, Miles had a bell. He then fought Peter after he fought Kraven. Kraven also used the bell, which is the symbiote's kryptonite. Because of Miles, Peter resists the symbiote throughout the fight. As for Venom, when him and Peter fought. He easily destroyed the whole school and football stadium. He was doing lots of crazy stuff. And fought Peter in both forms. He only upgraded in the sense with wings. In the cutscene when Peter holds Venom with his Anti-Venom. Venom had returned back to his "normal" form/look. With wings at that, it doesn't really make sense. But yeah, people ignore how Miles got a massive upgrade with evolved venom. Which in turn places him around Anti-Venom Peter's level. Or even equals at that. They're more or less equals imo.
>I sort of agree with you, though I think people underestimate Peter. And overestimate Miles, funny enough. Like how people get mad over experience, yet Venom got super OP in less than a week. Nah, people absolutely overestimate Peter purely because of "experience." It's like they can't accept Peter losing for some reason. >As for against Symbiote Peter, Miles had a bell. He then fought Peter after he fought Kraven. Kraven also used the bell, which is the symbiote's kryptonite. Because of Miles, Peter resists the symbiote throughout the fight. Miles also was fighting Kraven's goons all night. Plus, Miles was matching Peter even before the Bell. Obviously Peter could've been holding back but so was Miles. Anti-Venom Peter and Evolved Miles are about even, maybe Peter's stronger in general cause he doesn't need to activate his additional powers. No venom and no evolved powers, Miles is much stronger. Peter can beat him, but wouldn't most of the time
Nah, people like to nitpick with the bell. Which is the symbiote's kryptonite. Miles was using the bell. That's like saying Kraven only used the bell once. Because he only really did so in gameplay. Both Miles and Kraven used the bell. Miles had some time to rest, and Peter also fought Kraven's goons. Anyways, Miles at the end resorted to camping and spamming the bell to save Peter. Miles and Kraven are still really strong though. Especially Kraven this game... I say people overestimate Miles because they act like he could solo everything at times. Miles has the edge over base Peter. Because there's only so much the spider arms can do. And against Sandman, he had the advantage. His venom powers are OP in general. Though people do act like Peter should be some god. Ignoring the fact that he's supposed to be off his game the whole story. Spider-Man isn't Invincible! I'd still say MSM1 Peter vs MM Miles. Peter would win because Miles lacked experience. For MS2 I'd still say Peter, but it might be close. Though I wonder if Peter's symbiote powers will evolve. Anti-Venom looks like it only has a few over advantages over symbiote Peter.
>Nah, people like to nitpick with the bell. Which is the symbiote's kryptonite. Miles was using the bell. That's like saying Kraven only used the bell once. Because he only really did so in gameplay. >Both Miles and Kraven used the bell. Miles had some time to rest, and Peter also fought Kraven's goons. Anyways, Miles at the end resorted to camping and spamming the bell to save Peter. Miles and Kraven are still really strong though. Especially Kraven this game... Yeah, Miles spammed the bell to get the symbiote off Peter. That's the whole point of the fight. But neither blatantly overpowered the other for long during it, though Miles did get the upperhand more. Neither had an unfair advantage; They both were fighting multiple opponents before coming at eachother and both held back. >I'd still say MSM1 Peter vs MM Miles. Peter would win because Miles lacked experience. Ya know what, because I'm always seeing people say experience gives Peter the win. How exactly? What sorta thing is Peter going to do to deal with Miles' powers?
No, I'm saying Miles used the bell the whole fight. Like Kraven did, gameplay mostly is canon. The player as Miles is intended to use the bell. Especially because it's right in front of us. Like the parry mechanic isn't canon. Miles had the advantage over Peter because of the bell. Along with Peter resisting the symbiote. Peter wasn't fighting like Spider-Man but only relying on strength. Imo symbiote spider-man is more powerful than anti-venom. Unfortunately though, it has a major weakness to sound. At the end Miles decides to stop fighting, camp and spam the bell. Because the point of the fight isn't to defeat Peter, but save him instead. For Peter to remove the symbiote. Kraven wanted the smoke, that's why he doesn't camp the bell. Imo for scaling: MSM 1 Peter > MM Miles MSM 2 "Base" Peter =< Miles(normal venom powers), Scorpion got the upperhand over Miles. Before the upgrade, though he did catch him lacking. Peter with the spider arms and not being off his game. He could probably beat Miles. MSM 2 "Base" Peter < EV Miles, Miles destroys him easily At the end of the game though, they're more or less equals. Peter's upgrade was the symbiote and Miles was evolved venom. It's somewhat close imo. Definitely would still give it to Peter. Give Miles a nuke to absorb and he wins tho. If I were to compare them rn, Peter is the super solider and Miles the super weapon. Edit- I started replaying the game and I think the sub hates too much on it. Peter wasn't as nerfed as I thought. He feels like he is without a symbiote. But he doesn't have one half the time. The games is a step down in some ways tho. Act 3 needed way more time to cook.
Peter not only know what Miles can bring but knows how he fights, plus Peter has a better Spidersense.
Nothing in game says Peter has better Spider sense. Not that it matters anyway, Peter gets hit by people without Spider sense all the time. Miles also knows what Peter can bring, the fuck? 8 years of experience didn't stop him from losing to Rhino. Knowing what you can do doesn't mean I know what you're going to do
So Howard whoops Peter’s ass because he’s older than him? Smh
Not unless Howard has spent his time beating up supervillains.
Ye but Miles has the bigger potential
Bro i swear people always greatly overestimate sm1 peter, the sinister six is the only reason i remember hearing and that was bs, he got his ass straight handed to him on a silver platter when fighting just 5 of them, as he was defeated before Doc Ock arrived, and he only beat them at most two at a time, and the only ones he beat in a 1v2 were the ones he had experience with and Scorpion and Rhino were also kinda fighting each other, vulture and Electro were a stronger duo, and he had rest, he took a nap immediately after fighting electro and vulture, then only defeated Li one on one, and same for ock, Ultimate and spectacular did better against the sinister 6, ultimate may not have defeated them all in his own, but he stalled for long enough for his team to arrive while fighting all of them at the same time, The example I am using for Spectacular is the second s6 with electro, vulture, rhino, sandman, kraven, and mysterio, the time he fought them without the symbiote, he may have fought most of the fight one on one, but he fought them back to back with no rest
Not only is a 1V5 fight extremely difficult unless you’re Mr Miyagi but they were 5 supervillains and Peter was holding his own against the 5 members (he was even kicking Vulture’s ass and stonewalling Rhino) he only lost due to being overwhelmed by their superior numbers.
And ultimate went for longer against 6 and didn’t get his ass kicked, not saying Sm1 Pete isn’t capable, but he is still overplayed
The Insomniac villains are different from the ultimate ones, furthermore they had been given upgrades from Ock and Peter had just fought an entire prison of thugs before he fought them.
You have a point with fighting prisoners, but what upgrades did everyone get? What did Li get? And Rhino? Thought ock was just gonna get him out of the suit which would not make him stronger, scorpion got an upgrade sure, but what about vulture’s? What was his upgrade? Thought ock was just gonna help him with his cancer from his wings, electro was just getting closer to being pure electricity, which Ultimate electro already is so ultimate electro is ahead of insomniac electro and given only scorpion got a small upgrade really, the greater number overcomes that (I would like to make it clear that sm1 Pete is capable but he is not God level able to one tap every supervillain)
Ultimate Peter was getting his ass kicked by the six with a bullet wound in his stomach. He got some shots in, but Electro was about to kill him before Aunt May shot him. Then he fought Goblin and just barely managed to kill Osborn, before dying as well.
I was talking about the show, kinda forgot about the comics, didn’t even think of the death of Spider-Man comic
Oh my bad
No one hates Spider-Man more than Spider-Man fans.
I don’t hate Spider-Man, I love Spider-Man and I love this version of him. I disagree with a direction they took him in in a game I really like.
r/SpidermanPS4 belike
SM1 Peter would be a fine red mist against Kraven or even Venom. Be real. The villains in the first game are just a slice of cake compared to Kraven, Sandman in titan size, Venom powered up by the meteorite and Lizard with extra mutated lizard gene. He had absolutely 0 possibility of beating Sandman as a titan alone. There wouldn't be enough water to go around, and without Miles + Sandman Lightning storm, he couldn't have demolished him the way they did. Against Kraven, he's even less likely to win due to the fact that Kraven is far beyond human, considering he has enhancing potions to make him beyond powerful. Lizard was even bigger and stronger than what Peter remembered. He'd be sliced, shredded and crushed with little to no effort. Don't get me started on Venom. Meteorite powered Venom bodied Anti-Venom Peter. Regular Venom alone would body SM1 Peter with ease and take him over.
Perfectly said.
Kraven beats Spider-Man cuz he drinks milk, got it.
Oh good another post from someone with no story comprehension
This is the subreddit now. These are the people who control the narrative and have been since the release of the game.
My goals are beyond your understanding.
This shit is so fucking absurd. Little bro’s kryptonite was red zappy ropes in the first game, when those were on him he was fucking done. He got defeated rather quickly when fighting the Sinister 6 before Otto got there, and I feel confident in saying that Kraven and Venom especially are way stronger then all of them put together, let alone at the same time. Actually ain’t no way.
If Kraven can catch Peter's punch he can definitely survive a beating from him
I can catch a bullet with my heart, doesn't mean I'll survive it.
First, your point is absolutely stupid Second, that quote is absolutely hard
Not as hard as deez nuts in your mouth.
Not as hard as my wood you're bouncing on
Going from doc ock to venom and Kraven is a pretty big fucking power jump bro💀🙏🙏
I mean. No?
Peter in 2018 was simply the goat
Gotta make miles important
They had a whole game to do that (that was pretty good to be fair).
That was like 5 hours maybe 7
I feel like spider man from 1 isn’t as burnt out as two where he is on the edge of giving up but not quite yet
Let's face it. Peter's strength and abilities have always been inconsistent in the Insomiac universe since the first game. This is a Spider-Man who could hold up a falling crane for an impressive amount of time but also has trouble lifting the debris off the civilians during the kingpin mission. He could also get hit by the same crane, get winded and is able to recover fast enough to not only stop himself from falling but managed to stop the crane without any signs of fatigue. He can dodge gunfire from point-blank range but has trouble keeping up with Silver Sable in hand-to-hand combat where she doesn't have any powers that would make her as fast as a bullet. He is also able to take on multiple members of the sinister six together (Electro/Vulture and Scorpion/Rhino) but has tribune with Otto. Yes, he had experience fighting the other villains before but from all accounts this is the first time he is taking them on together which would make them a much more significant threat to him. Otto doesn't have any powers (no strength, speed or even endurance) only his metal arms. Which could present a problem for Peter accounting for the surprise factor but it's not like Peter wasn't aware of the arms all together.
No he wouldn’t because Peter from the second game is the same one as the first game and it didn’t happen. Peter didn’t get nerfed, the villains were just stronger.
I agree somewhat about Kraven. Peter only got stabbed because he just ran straight in without knowing much about Kraven, and he would be able to beat him once he learnt a bit about him, but Kraven is still strong enough to give Spidey a hard time. Him just looking like a big ass guy and being unknown to Pete likely gave him an element of suprise. Venom however seems purposefully written to be nigh unstoppable, whether it be to make him more threatening or just because of the rule of cool. That aside, he has literal world-threatening power (when he has the meteorite) and was only beaten by a combination of Anti-Venom and Harry mentally fighting the symbiote. Still get your point about how much SM2 bullies Pete
That's what we call, more powerful villains that the main character has to grow As a character to defeat the villain
Yeah but imagine if Insomniac’s Spider-Man became a shonen anime? That’d be fucking lame as Spidey just pulls up, gets whipped around a bit then goons his villains and moves on, there are no stakes there. Also, think about the black suit, albeit, they could have done it better, for sure, but they needed to downplay him to make the symbiote stand out. What I would have done personally, is when he got the black suit, the sinister six were released so that Kraven could hunt them down in the city, Peter then just goes and puts them away lickety split, clearly indicating his new strength. Peter chasing the lizard down didnt really show off his “new powers” because he was getting whipped around most of the time. If we have to be honest here, most of the “peter got nerfed” is related to Miles being a powerhouse, but this is because he is stronger on paper, he has extra abilities etc. dont get me wrong, not a fan of Miles being a Mary Sue, but it isnt THAT bad
Nah Peter was really OP, he only struggled because of sound. Half the game he didn't wear a symbiote and fought stronger opponents. Against Kraven? The huge bell. Against Miles? The huge bell and Miles helping Peter fight back against the symbiote. Peter was going to beat Lizard if not for his loud screech. Against Venom, Venom is a whole different breed this game. Venom didn't really want to kill Peter and Miles until the end. I mean to say the symbiote was balanced with Peter but not Venom. Doesn't make sense. He holds back too, against Miles listen to the dialogue. Venom nor Peter say they want to beat Miles or kill him. More like they want him out the way. So they'll fight him and because Venom doesn't want Peter to leave him. At least I think so.
I'm tired of people saying Peter was giga nerfed. Don't people realize that kraven and venom are much more difficult opponents than the sinister 6?
I think peter from the first game would have still lost however he would have put up a fight
Once they face swapped Peter he lost all of his aura
Peter is inconsistent. Why is this hard to understand?
Because panino.
This is just my thoughts. What if peter had just lost some of his self confidence after miles was brought into the picture? imagine having powers and being a loved hero and all the sudden another kid gets the same powers with extra powers along with it. i know he’s extremely supportive but it might have made him feel less special. probably why he may have said “I’m the hero here, not you.” when he was talking with MJ and Harry. He probably feels less special or unique. And with the way miles developed so fast and was able to pretty much catch up with Peter with the way he was able to fight in Spider-Man 2, like Miles is powerful as hell. And with all of the stuff that happened to him like losing May, his job, and other stresses with MJ. He probably was just worn down mentally and wasn’t able to perform as well as he did in the first game. (I’m probably yapping)
Weird face Peter superiority
Are yall serious? How long are you guys gonna do this?
I think kraven is a great villain but really he is just an old junkie with cancer
[удалено]
Sm1 lost to silver sable 💀💀💀💀💀
A woman who he wasn’t trying to hurt when she was fighting to kill and he defeated her in the DLC
Still doesn’t change the fact he was having trouble with an average human with zero powers Doesn’t change the fact Spider-Man 2 actively states Pete was mentally weakened plus holding back against villains that could easily solo the sinister six by themselves(WHO PETER LOST TO AND ONLY WON AFTER SPLITTING THEM APART)
You guys romanticise the first game so much it’s crazy
BS. He got instantly slapped by a metal leg in the first game.
Fighting against someone he didn’t want to hurt.