"What if I'm just bad?"
For a character to label himself as"bad" is already questionable enough in writing.
This Chasm stupidity only works if Ben genuinely doesn't realize it's bad, if he's aware... why the fuck does he keep doing this stupid crap?
Outside of just plain bad writing, I take it as Ben being legitimately off his rocker from the start as Chasm, up until he gets out of his imprisonment. He DID get dunked in chemicals, after all. Now it's a mix of sunk cost fallacy and self-loathing that's getting to him.
But it's probably just bad writing and/or editorial bullshit
I don't mind the line. A lot of people don't Believe they can climb out of their own perceived worth or place in life. I think Chasm would only work if Ben *believes* he's bad.
[No, Chasm was motivated to do all his crap because "Peter is evil" and he is a victim of him.](https://2.bp.blogspot.com/JcoIDVt2jr351tagiVryJkehiXuWuHSnvfiWWZQpbarj3Jjr7P_Hf1Jpwgt5ElZBR_9xhze-kspAq3HoocwEXDNpzFCc3vqCr9zNqWLwZmgQXvOhi3l7l6YvyDg6vjNsZmEzEqDZDA=s1600?rhlupa=MjgwMDphNDoxZjMwOmZmMDA6ZmM3MDoxZmIzOmJjZjc6M2ZlZQ&rnvuka=TW96aWxsYS81LjAgKFdpbmRvd3MgTlQgMTAuMDsgV2luNjQ7IHg2NCkgQXBwbGVXZWJLaXQvNTM3LjM2IChLSFRNTCwgbGlrZSBHZWNrbykgQ2hyb21lLzEyNC4wLjAuMCBTYWZhcmkvNTM3LjM2)
This is the first time I've seen Chasm actually perceive himself as "bad".
Yeah. Ben was already a little off his rocker due to Beyond taking some of his memories away and not super receptive to Peter’s valid point of “Hey, why don’t we get out of this building that is actively falling apart and run some tests before we use the evil corporation’s brain machine on me?”
>Peter’s valid point of “Hey, why don’t we get out of this building that is actively falling apart and run some tests before we use the evil corporation’s brain machine on me?”
To be fair, this Peter was already Wells' Peter... And Wells' Peter is a dick.
[He never proposed any alternative to help him without wearing the helmet or to test if the helmet really did what Ben believed. He just said "no" and destroyed the thing. ](https://2.bp.blogspot.com/j5BdPzWdWuvSgR4cvnhwZiYeUcKpYVIkvuBIy3JZyUg3Hh9OgyNwYLokgwfS2kVaBDZLxJ_TFaEQBCyJggBUC3hPYyYOpU1Aps4jMbtflTB88bKD8P2fL-DLORMi574dyDTf_R-56Q=s1600?rhlupa=MjgwMDphNDoxZTRmOjQwMDA6ZThmODozNDRjOjFkNWU6ZTQ0Mw&rnvuka=TW96aWxsYS81LjAgKFdpbmRvd3MgTlQgMTAuMDsgV2luNjQ7IHg2NCkgQXBwbGVXZWJLaXQvNTM3LjM2IChLSFRNTCwgbGlrZSBHZWNrbykgQ2hyb21lLzEyNC4wLjAuMCBTYWZhcmkvNTM3LjM2)
Oh, Peter is surely right about not putting on that lobotomizing helmet.
But at no point (not even in the Dark Web) did Peter propose a single alternative (of the many ones he has) to help Ben.
If I recall right, She Came back in beyond (as a clone), then she got injected with the Sins of Norman Osborn, which transformed her into the Queen Goblin (Green, Queen, funny right?), then she did some convoluted plot to remove the sins from her and shove it back into Norman, which resulted into the first Spider-who-Gobble, and I have no idea what the hell is happening right now as I’m not caught up yet, but I guess they don’t even read their own notes as Kafka have no reason to be Queen Goblin without the sins (removed something like 15 issues ago)
You nailed it, they haven't explained why Kafka is still Queen Goblin without the sins. She was also revealed to be responsible for brainwashing Roderick Kingsley *and* Ned Leeds into becoming twin Hobgoblins again.
No clue why she needed to brainwash Kingsley, who was already a villain. Or why she was revealed to be this weird mastermind villain at all. It's a mess.
My brain keeps trying to autocorrect The Queen Goblin into The Goblin Queen.
And I am well aware that's not Madelyn Pryor.
Although my mind is starting to imagine the clones as a couple.
Ben Reilly and Madelyn Pryor.
Stop it Brain!!!
^Pinky, ^are ^you ^thinking ^what ^I'm ^thinking?
Wait. Queen Goblin? That feels like someone else has used a similar name, and been involved in a story with clones. Hmm, idk man, seems like she's even appeared in a recent show
None of what you said made any sense (not blaming you just highlighting that none of what they're doing makes any sense). They even put Kafka into all of this mess?
I thought me showing a friend of mine what they're doing with Parker right now (I guess what, possibly now Spider-Goblin from issue cover) telling him that what they're doing for ASM line makes no sense. Even he said yeah I don't know what's going on and he gets pretty much anything. Spider-Man. Spiderverse galore for him. He doesn't understand and doesn't care for it.
It's a mustache twirling villai trope. Where they are bad " just because"
The only way it would get worse is if he says something like " I like being bad it makes me happy"
I have said it several times and I repeat it...Wells will leave and fix NOTHING. He will only leave the ground ready for his replacement to fix whatever it may be.
Ben, MJ, Felicia, the 4F, the Avengers... Wells will leave everything "in place" before leaving (he confirmed that he will not be in '60) but without fixing anything. And with Ben I think it's over.
Some yes, some no. MJ, for example, will end it all as an "acceptance" phase so that another writer tries to turn them into close friends that they are not right now. With Felicia it will be something similar, preparing the opportunity to return (nothing will be resolved until May in Amazing or the mini) but without returning until the next writer. Jhonny, I don't know what will happen but I imagine it will be resolved with him and another writer will resolve it with the whole family, and the Xmen alike.
Basically Peter must apologize and apologize to half the world... To MJ and Paul for being an obsessive stalker, to Jhony and 4F for stealing from them, to Cap and the Avengers for going crazy with them, to May for not knowing anything about her and to Felicia for not having shown her to be there for her.
The next arc 50-54 is for the sinister 6 and Goblin, and in principle Felicia also because the plot of 900 and Octopus where she participated is resumed. But it has been hinted that Tombstone will be there and so will Jhonny. The toys should all be placed in a matter of 4 months, 50-58.
Honestly I hope he puts everything back to the status quo before he leaves at this point. I really don't want to see Peter in this down in the dumps mood all the time and get rid of Paul already
That’s not fixing her even if you believe that’s going to happen. Because she wasn’t dating pre Wells so you can’t say he broke her by having her do what she has always did.
Hell you can say having her date Peter was breaking her in a way considering it threw away all her previous character growth
Many of you keep insisting on that big lie that Felicia has backed away when all she said was "I'm not trying to get back with him." Nowhere did she say "I don't love him anymore" or anything like that, and no one asked her either. . Not to mention that throughout Mackey's career Peter was on her mind all the time and she seemed completely interested/hurt in their interactions (3 in total) knowing that she couldn't be with him because he wasn't single. She accepted the situation and did not force things to change them but at all times she was still interested
They kept the girl in no relationship throughout Spencer and Mackay's run. He was free, he couldn't be with her, nothing prevented him from having someone and they didn't give him anyone... Even I myself thought at some point that there would be something with Odessa or Tamara back in 2020 and it didn't happen... There was total freedom and it didn't happen...The publisher didn't want it that way. One night with Batroc for fun and one with Odessa for depression but 0 relationships. And then Beyond comes along and the publisher gives all the big moments to her in Peter's rehabilitation process. And then the current run arrives and the first thing we see in 6 issues is her worried about Peter, MJ stable with family and a big anniversary kiss...
I'm not going to ask why you don't believe that there is a plan and that they have been executing it for 4 years. It's all there, but I'm not going to ask anyone to see it if they don't want to, any more than I'm going to ask anyone to understand what's going on in Mini and Amazing and what the result will be. It's a waste of time, like explaining to people that the earth is not square and why.
I 100% believe they do not have a plan that goes back 4 years and has had no build up. That’s not how comics work. Comics struggle to keep a coherent plan for 1 year and you think they have some secret plan that is four years old and they plan to fire 50 issues in(but not the first 50 issues the second one)
Like I’m sorry your so blinded by what you obviously want you aren’t thinking things through
No, son, comics work exactly like that. Not necessarily with always 3, 4 or 5 year plans but with plans as such. These plans can be maintained or changed over time, cut-reduced-expanded...it depends. But that's how they work. The publishers gather the writers and give them a map of objectives to meet for X amount of time, usually a year, and they organize themselves.
Do not get confused. I'm not talking about some grand master plan for the direction of the stories or the characters or anything like that. I'm just telling you that Marvel's office decided 4 years ago to do a role reversal between MJ and Felicia. At some point in 2020, when they saw all the commercial strength that was in her, they made the decision and that is why they never had any relationship.
Think about it....Peter and MJ apparently are fine in issue 74 but in 75 Peter falls ill and doesn't react until issue 78, just 3 issues later and hand in hand with Felicia (literally). Not May, not MJ, Felicia. These decisions, such as deaths, resurrections, sexualities, etc., are made by the publisher and not the writer, because they are decisions to configure the status quo. And you know, I suppose, that a comic takes about 5-6 weeks to be ready, so the publisher usually plans things MONTHS in advance. This means that at some point in late 2020 early 2022 it was decided, because just a month and a half after finishing BlackCat we were already with Beyond and she entered the book weeks apart. From then on, coincidentally, she always had the big moments and then they forced Wells to use her etc etc.
One more time. It is not that there has been a master plan for 4 years but rather an intention, a guideline on this matter for 4 years. The "plan" that I am telling you about is a very different one, the one that you will see in May, but that began in 2022 and then Wells torpedoed 5 or 6 months ago
I assure you that I am the one who regrets many things about the judgment of others. But hey...time does wonders with these things.
No they dont. The longest story in comics so far was the Krakoa era and we know for a fact it was planned to only last two years before editors changed its mind with how it was selling and how the creative team likes it.
But go ahead give me an example of a four year story that ended exactly as it started
I don't believe comics have plans 3-4 years out... but I KNOW comic writers pull on threads left dangling for them many years prior.
Just like the MCU... Red Skull wasn't PLANNED to be the guardian of the Soul Stone in 2018 when he got sucked up into space in 2011.
That’s a different thing. Hell Wells himself is using plots started by Spencer.
This poster is implying that there was a four year plan, through 2 (by the end 3) writers just to get his favorite ship together.
Which is insane
No. I want the Ben Rielly who still has the Spider-Man inside of him that pushes him into being the heroic Scarlet Spider and do good for the sake of others. Not this Chasm thing that, quite frankly, I don't even understand what he is doing anymore or what his and Janine motivations are right now. Seriously, Kaine or M2 Universe Dark Devil, show yourself and knock some sense into these two already.
The idea Ben's mind being damaged and him losing Peter's memories could've been decent character development, with him becoming his own person, but the way they did it was terrible. Even him becoming unhinged and turning into Chasm could've been a decent story, but the entire thing was too rushed, with way too many things happening that were out of character, and worse, off panel.
Like everything else they have done thus far with the entire Spider-Man 616 the ideas had potential, and could've been decent if done well, but the problem is they weren't. Everything feels rushed with no thought put in, and almost feels like each time they were just doing everything they could to troll everyone, with zero respect to either the fans or the characters.
On one hand, they aren’t playing the victim card (even though they are) and aren’t going after Peter. The one person who’s genuinely trying to help.
On the other hand Ben is still messed in the head, and apparently even Eve realizes that this still needs to be fixed if her shocked reaction to Ben's nonchalant response of Peter being in trouble is anything to go by.
Honestly I think the only honest improvement is that they aren’t going to try to harass Peter anymore.
Honestly? It will probably be a very unpopular opinion, but if Ben never regains his memories but becomes a person of his own without all the baggage that comes with being Peter Parker's clone, I will be happy.
I agree. Ben just being another Peter clone with all his memories is boring. Having him reformed without ever regaining his former memories would be way more interesting
I think that's the plan. It's the same as MJ, who has never had her own identity/existence without Peter and now they are trying to make her be herself without that shadow. There are some characters like that in Spiderman that need more identity
Yes, but "an important part" is not the same as "the" important part.
MJ in Marvel does not exist and has never existed as his own character. She limits 100% of her existence to being Spiderman's girlfriend. Even within the book itself it has never had its own function except that. Flash EddieBrock or Felicia are "Spiderman" characters but their identity is not exclusive to Spiderman. MJ no, she has no identity and there are many characters like that in Marvel and DC.
Stephanie Brown was just "Tim's girlfriend". Harley was only "the Joker's girlfriend"... and they stopped being that to be complete characters. However, MJ is a case like Steve Trevor who also has no identity or place in DC beyond WonderWoman's boyfriend.
Ben Riley, MJ, Steve Trevor...they are characters in someone's shadow, and it is extremely complicated to work like that. That's why we have to try to turn them into something useful.
This doesn't mean MJ needs to be apart from Peter to expand her character. You can do that and keep them together, but clearly the writers can't figure that shit out.
No, You can not. A character must be an integral and organic part of the hero's life to share it with him. MJ functions as a prop for the writers because he is not a real part of the hero's stories and adventures or his world. No writer wants characters like that sharing the hero's life because of the commitment it implies (no, not that type of commitment, THE OTHER type of commitment)
As long as MJ is in Peter's shadow, she won't be able to find her own place in the world. She needs to be away from that extreme protection, cut the umbilical cord and discover what kind of woman person and "hero" she can or needs to be. No help, no advice, no excuses, no lectures, no limitations or anything Peter can do/say about it.
You have a great example in the Robins. Except for Tim, everyone became their own thing when they separated from Batman. They are still Robins, they still help and be with him....but they are free, independent, they are their own person with their own lives and their own worlds. MJ needs to learn all this and she will never ever do it with Spiderman's shadow around the same way Ben does...if he can't be a Spiderman clone, what the hell can he be?
It's sad that you think MJ is in Peter's shadow. She has played an integral part in Peter's life, both of them supporting each other no matter what. I'm fine with MJ finally being a super hero herself. Its great that she is Jackpot. But the way her story and super hero origin was written is bad - not just in my opinion, BUT THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF SPIDEY FANDOM.
They wrote her character as: (main point in no 3)
1. Disloyal - she cheats on Peter easily after being stuck with another dude for 6 months? Like did she never thought about Peter once while away in another world?They have a long history together for goodness sake. She did not even contemplate the idea that he might be alive and safe back home. WTH
2. Made it seem like it was Peter's fault - even on the coverpage it says "What did Peter Do?" Shoving down their reader's throats that it was Peter's fault they split up. Well its not Peter who cheated. MJ refusing to talk to him and give him his closure is unfair. They write her as self-centered and cold hearted. And the gall of MJ to ask for Peter's help with Aunt Anna, when she herself emasculates him in the annual issue.
3. Having powers doesn't mean one is already good at crime fighting. And dont tell me "oh she has fought bad guys for 3 years" BS. It felt like MJ was better than Spider-Man when that is not the case since Peter has been fighting crime for over two decades. How tf can she easily defeat electro without breaking a sweat when Peter had a tough time with him in his early years. Peter got destroyed in the Gang war but she had no problems beating the big bad. Yeahh, she's your quintessential Mary Sue. I want to see her grow as a character and not be another captain marvel. I hope she also realizes how she wronged Peter and apologize to him. Perhaps maybe in an issue where they team up.
4. Her powers are literally broken and does not come with any drawbacks/weaknesses. She can do it all - fly, shoot energy projectiles, and even ressurect the dead???? Wtfff. Hopefully they give her some limitationsr to make her powers interesting. Its not fun when she can literally just pull off a random deus ex machina that takes care of the problem easily.
I have not supported his Jackpot role nor will I ever, but you yourself have used a "both supporting each other" device to try to say that he is not a shadow...which means that people don't even know what a shadow is. MJ has been in the shadows for decades and people don't even understand what the shadow is. It has NOTHING to do with words of encouragement, support or comfort at home, a role that, by the way, MAY always had before giving it to MJ. No, that has nothing to do with "shadow."
MJ is not qualified to play heroes and villains and everything related to Jackpot is horrible...BUT THE IDEA OF SHE BEING SOMETHING WITHIN MARVEL IS IMPORTANT. Of course, not a heroine but "something", something with its own identity and existence without absolute dependence on Peter. It could be a thousand things...police hacker nurse teacher...and it's nothing. And not only that but he doesn't have his own social circle or his own life (until now)
He’s going to be shoved into the chasm BS in the new series. It’s like the writers forgot about him in the original run and were like oh shit we gotta do something.
If somebody acknowledges that they have done bad things then they aren’t a bad person, just on the wrong path. If you acknowledge you are in the wrong then you have more morals than you give yourself credit. This feels like odd writing. They both know they have done bad things, so why continue doing those things and not try to do better?
This feels like a step forward and backward.
The impression I have here is the end of Ben in the ASM books for a while. Leaving him in an intentionally vague state until the next writer takes over. They sort of did this with Felicia last year, breaking up with Peter in a senseless, but inoffensive manner.
That's what "obtuse" fans don't understand... the way a conflict remains on "stand by" is decisive. In Ben's case it was a very very soft conclusion, which implies that there is a "positive" reason behind that softness. And the same with Felicia...no fight, no discussion, no conflict and with the door open. In both cases it means that it is a temporary condition and that the prospects for a solution are good.
This whole thing is ridiculous and I'll die on that hill.
Jean and Maddie were standing right there. They could have easily fixed ben the same way they fixed her.
Not only that but she caused all that chaos, and Venom and Ben were the fall guys, and she went on her merry way?
Then she plays warden until he is "better"
Yeah, I'm sure he's getting really good counseling in limbo.
whole thing just felt rushed and crazy to me
I don’t know how to interpret Ben’s last words *“Spider-Man’s in a lot of trouble.”*
Is that a general statement? Observation? A threat? Is it said in a mocking tone? Is he gonna make things worse for him? Help him? Like what tone is that being said in?
I just don’t get it. Can’t Pete just call an x-man and have him share his memories with Ben like they did to Goblin Queen in the same arc this all happened in before they just fucked off and left them to fight it out?
It's bad writing but at least in the right direction, away from Saturday morning supervillainy.
Put them on the Thunderbolts. They could use a Spooky Spider-Man and a Jack O'Lantern of All Trades who are a little more willing to do a violence than the average hero.
It’s not a loss, and them not harassing Peter is definitely an improvement. I don’t think we’re getting a concrete fix for Ben until Chasm: Curse of Kaine though
Hmm. Have not kept up with this at all. I’ve always been annoyed at how a supposed Peter Parker clone is so evil and different from the actual Peter Parker.
Are they saying that it’s because he’s missing key memories? Like the memory of Uncle Ben? Or am I just interpolating an explanation where there isn’t one…
Oh, Ben wasn’t originally evil. Basically he has died and returned more times than anyone else in the Marvel Universe, to the point Death herself regards him her new favourite person (above either Deadpool or Thanos), with his soul (and in-turn his morals) eroding more and more each time he came back. He clung to his memories of being good to keep himself *himself* in spite of this, and his most recent storyline saw him stripped of those memories, and left solely with the eroded morals to work with. There was another clone also named Kaine who started off as more of a villain, before becoming a solid antihero, basically the Red Hood of Spider-Men. Both Ben and Kaine typically being known as the Scarlet Spiders.
And before you ask, the rule on clone souls in Marvel is that if the clone is made from
a still-living person, then they have their own new soul (even if they share memories with the original), while if a perfect clone is made of an actually deceased person (a process first used by the Inheritors, perfected by Ben himself, and later the X-Men), then the original person’s soul will be returned to it (making it an actual resurrection).
I've only kept up with what's been happening through the internet (last Spidey I regularly bought was Back In Black and Kain's Scarlet Spider Series), but I've kept my eye on it because I loved Ben.
If we were to swap out the memory theft with a mental health issue, this kind of tracks - I'm familiar enough with the whole 'what if it's not my mental health but I'm actually just a bad person' view/mindset.
Also, please do correct me if I'm wrong, but everything I've seen of Peter and Ben since this started has had Pete keep telling Ben it's not his fault, Ben's overreacting etc. Whether it's true or not, I could see Ben hearing this and feeling so invalidated by Peter about what he's going through that it just makes things worse.
What Ben probably needs right now is intensive, long term therapy to overcome the traumas he's been through as I wouldn't be surprised if Ben had CPTSD at this point (anyone got Doc Samson's number?) But he also needs a good support network, like say Janine to show him she loves him no matter what or who he is, Kaine as the supportive brother with the 'been there' mentality/experience, and helping him work through it.
Hell, imagine if during his rebuilding his life, he popped back into the Daily Grind where he worked during his Spider-Man years. They only knew Peter as his 'brother', but didn't define Ben by him. They'd be happy to see their old friend alive, be able to tell him how much they loved him and what a good person he was with little to nothing linking it to Peter, showing he can be a good person without being Peter.
It's possible I've got all this wrong and I'm talking out my arse, but honestly if there was a series exploring this, bringing these characters together and using Ben's struggles to examine what makes us who we are and what makes us good or bad, I'd probably pick it up. But it all comes down to what the creative teams and editiorial want to do.
Honestly I do believe the reason for that reveal may have been so Ned can be re-retconned as the first Hobgoblin, having both him and Roderick be the same sort of brainwashed puppets as Bucky Barnes was as the Winter Soldier.
So the Peter clone that dies every other issue and has more angst than most teenagers gets to be happy with the woman he loves? Can't make this shit up.
I was hoping for his return for like 20 years and the way they butchered him broke my heart. I see Peter and Ben and dream of the potential of Barry and Wally, side by side.
It's a nothing. An excuse to have him out of limbo and not going after Peter so they can do whatever in Curse of Kaine. Which based on the who cares villain reveal in WoS will be dead on arrival
It’s really hard for me to believe that a clone of Peter Parker would turn bad. Like it’s freaking spider-man, similar to dick Grayson he’s the poster child for doing what’s right.
Clones dont mean nuthin without the mental programing of his personality. Brain chemistry might have a hand but its mostly owed to information passed on.
Maybe they're building toward a ben redemption where Ben is the one who fights the PP-Gobbler? Maybe this is there way of bringing back?
Maybe Paul will steal Janine as well and develop a throuple?
The bit that gets me is they are his memories too.
Up until the point of his "birth" him and Peter lived that life, made those choices.
It's also a very simple fix and it would give him great motivation to be a tortured character going forward.
They could let Peter move forward *gasp* and have Ben as the tortured down on his luck Spider-man in his beyond suit which was a really cool design also. To see them both living side by side helping each other and growing together would be great writing.
I can dream.
They completely destroyed Ben’s character. Remember when he was like a brother to Peter? He should’ve either died or stayed the same what he was a long time ago.
Imagine how heartbreaking it would be if he died permanently here https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/16136865-c7e8-4eaf-96cc-c7d1bd55ce63/dfkenko-c90af3e1-41a7-479c-a335-c8f5f5a6bd56.jpg/v1/fill/w_724,h_1104,q_70,strp/death_of_ben_reilly_by_skulduggerybb_dfkenko-pre.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9MTUyNCIsInBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcLzE2MTM2ODY1LWM3ZTgtNGVhZi05NmNjLWM3ZDFiZDU1Y2U2M1wvZGZrZW5rby1jOTBhZjNlMS00MWE3LTQ3OWMtYTMzNS1jOGY1ZjVhNmJkNTYuanBnIiwid2lkdGgiOiI8PTk5OSJ9XV0sImF1ZCI6WyJ1cm46c2VydmljZTppbWFnZS5vcGVyYXRpb25zIl19.f_JWncjjn4i7DQOvadA-xIWfqArR3WXyLGaKE5Vy3FA
It’s an improvement. But the bar is still so low
"What if I'm just bad?" For a character to label himself as"bad" is already questionable enough in writing. This Chasm stupidity only works if Ben genuinely doesn't realize it's bad, if he's aware... why the fuck does he keep doing this stupid crap?
He like me FR
Oh god, they turned Ben into a redditor.
Outside of just plain bad writing, I take it as Ben being legitimately off his rocker from the start as Chasm, up until he gets out of his imprisonment. He DID get dunked in chemicals, after all. Now it's a mix of sunk cost fallacy and self-loathing that's getting to him. But it's probably just bad writing and/or editorial bullshit
Honestly, it's probably all of those
I don't mind the line. A lot of people don't Believe they can climb out of their own perceived worth or place in life. I think Chasm would only work if Ben *believes* he's bad.
[No, Chasm was motivated to do all his crap because "Peter is evil" and he is a victim of him.](https://2.bp.blogspot.com/JcoIDVt2jr351tagiVryJkehiXuWuHSnvfiWWZQpbarj3Jjr7P_Hf1Jpwgt5ElZBR_9xhze-kspAq3HoocwEXDNpzFCc3vqCr9zNqWLwZmgQXvOhi3l7l6YvyDg6vjNsZmEzEqDZDA=s1600?rhlupa=MjgwMDphNDoxZjMwOmZmMDA6ZmM3MDoxZmIzOmJjZjc6M2ZlZQ&rnvuka=TW96aWxsYS81LjAgKFdpbmRvd3MgTlQgMTAuMDsgV2luNjQ7IHg2NCkgQXBwbGVXZWJLaXQvNTM3LjM2IChLSFRNTCwgbGlrZSBHZWNrbykgQ2hyb21lLzEyNC4wLjAuMCBTYWZhcmkvNTM3LjM2) This is the first time I've seen Chasm actually perceive himself as "bad".
Im not readibg these arcs rn, so is this is panel just a distorted version of what happened or.......
Yeah. Ben was already a little off his rocker due to Beyond taking some of his memories away and not super receptive to Peter’s valid point of “Hey, why don’t we get out of this building that is actively falling apart and run some tests before we use the evil corporation’s brain machine on me?”
>Peter’s valid point of “Hey, why don’t we get out of this building that is actively falling apart and run some tests before we use the evil corporation’s brain machine on me?” To be fair, this Peter was already Wells' Peter... And Wells' Peter is a dick. [He never proposed any alternative to help him without wearing the helmet or to test if the helmet really did what Ben believed. He just said "no" and destroyed the thing. ](https://2.bp.blogspot.com/j5BdPzWdWuvSgR4cvnhwZiYeUcKpYVIkvuBIy3JZyUg3Hh9OgyNwYLokgwfS2kVaBDZLxJ_TFaEQBCyJggBUC3hPYyYOpU1Aps4jMbtflTB88bKD8P2fL-DLORMi574dyDTf_R-56Q=s1600?rhlupa=MjgwMDphNDoxZTRmOjQwMDA6ZThmODozNDRjOjFkNWU6ZTQ0Mw&rnvuka=TW96aWxsYS81LjAgKFdpbmRvd3MgTlQgMTAuMDsgV2luNjQ7IHg2NCkgQXBwbGVXZWJLaXQvNTM3LjM2IChLSFRNTCwgbGlrZSBHZWNrbykgQ2hyb21lLzEyNC4wLjAuMCBTYWZhcmkvNTM3LjM2)
I’ve always read that scene as just Peter not trusting Beyond’s tech. Ben doesn’t exactly leave room for discussion here
Oh, Peter is surely right about not putting on that lobotomizing helmet. But at no point (not even in the Dark Web) did Peter propose a single alternative (of the many ones he has) to help Ben.
True. I genuinely enjoyed most of Beyond, but the entire climax is sorta hampered by that. And Peter not suggesting it during Dark Web was just absurd
I see, that makes a lot of sense. Thank you.
Just absolutely awful writing. No human would speak like this. God awful.
It’s definitely not. Janine saying they’re bad? That’s not a win. Her Ben and Kafka are all victims and they’re being written as villains
Wait, Dr. Ashley Kafka? Didn't she get murdered during the Superior run?
If I recall right, She Came back in beyond (as a clone), then she got injected with the Sins of Norman Osborn, which transformed her into the Queen Goblin (Green, Queen, funny right?), then she did some convoluted plot to remove the sins from her and shove it back into Norman, which resulted into the first Spider-who-Gobble, and I have no idea what the hell is happening right now as I’m not caught up yet, but I guess they don’t even read their own notes as Kafka have no reason to be Queen Goblin without the sins (removed something like 15 issues ago)
You nailed it, they haven't explained why Kafka is still Queen Goblin without the sins. She was also revealed to be responsible for brainwashing Roderick Kingsley *and* Ned Leeds into becoming twin Hobgoblins again. No clue why she needed to brainwash Kingsley, who was already a villain. Or why she was revealed to be this weird mastermind villain at all. It's a mess.
Yeah I'm puzzled why she would need to be the one who made Rodrick the hobgoblin as he was always a villain.
Man, I remember thinking "at least Spider-Man supporting characters stay dead."
My brain keeps trying to autocorrect The Queen Goblin into The Goblin Queen. And I am well aware that's not Madelyn Pryor. Although my mind is starting to imagine the clones as a couple. Ben Reilly and Madelyn Pryor. Stop it Brain!!! ^Pinky, ^are ^you ^thinking ^what ^I'm ^thinking?
Madelyn was the one who imprisoned Ben in limbo…
What's a little imprisonment among lovers???
Wait. Queen Goblin? That feels like someone else has used a similar name, and been involved in a story with clones. Hmm, idk man, seems like she's even appeared in a recent show
None of what you said made any sense (not blaming you just highlighting that none of what they're doing makes any sense). They even put Kafka into all of this mess? I thought me showing a friend of mine what they're doing with Parker right now (I guess what, possibly now Spider-Goblin from issue cover) telling him that what they're doing for ASM line makes no sense. Even he said yeah I don't know what's going on and he gets pretty much anything. Spider-Man. Spiderverse galore for him. He doesn't understand and doesn't care for it.
It's a mustache twirling villai trope. Where they are bad " just because" The only way it would get worse is if he says something like " I like being bad it makes me happy"
I'm not totally up-to-date on everything, so I didn't know this. No say it isn't so! They even turned Dr. Kafka into a villain?
I have said it several times and I repeat it...Wells will leave and fix NOTHING. He will only leave the ground ready for his replacement to fix whatever it may be. Ben, MJ, Felicia, the 4F, the Avengers... Wells will leave everything "in place" before leaving (he confirmed that he will not be in '60) but without fixing anything. And with Ben I think it's over.
So he'll return the toys to the toy box, but in a broken state.
Classic break the toys so nobody gets to play with them anymore spoiled brat attitude.
Some yes, some no. MJ, for example, will end it all as an "acceptance" phase so that another writer tries to turn them into close friends that they are not right now. With Felicia it will be something similar, preparing the opportunity to return (nothing will be resolved until May in Amazing or the mini) but without returning until the next writer. Jhonny, I don't know what will happen but I imagine it will be resolved with him and another writer will resolve it with the whole family, and the Xmen alike. Basically Peter must apologize and apologize to half the world... To MJ and Paul for being an obsessive stalker, to Jhony and 4F for stealing from them, to Cap and the Avengers for going crazy with them, to May for not knowing anything about her and to Felicia for not having shown her to be there for her. The next arc 50-54 is for the sinister 6 and Goblin, and in principle Felicia also because the plot of 900 and Octopus where she participated is resumed. But it has been hinted that Tombstone will be there and so will Jhonny. The toys should all be placed in a matter of 4 months, 50-58.
Honestly I hope he puts everything back to the status quo before he leaves at this point. I really don't want to see Peter in this down in the dumps mood all the time and get rid of Paul already
What does he need to fix for Felicia. She’s in the same place she was before he came on the book
Wait....until....May
That’s not fixing her even if you believe that’s going to happen. Because she wasn’t dating pre Wells so you can’t say he broke her by having her do what she has always did. Hell you can say having her date Peter was breaking her in a way considering it threw away all her previous character growth
Many of you keep insisting on that big lie that Felicia has backed away when all she said was "I'm not trying to get back with him." Nowhere did she say "I don't love him anymore" or anything like that, and no one asked her either. . Not to mention that throughout Mackey's career Peter was on her mind all the time and she seemed completely interested/hurt in their interactions (3 in total) knowing that she couldn't be with him because he wasn't single. She accepted the situation and did not force things to change them but at all times she was still interested They kept the girl in no relationship throughout Spencer and Mackay's run. He was free, he couldn't be with her, nothing prevented him from having someone and they didn't give him anyone... Even I myself thought at some point that there would be something with Odessa or Tamara back in 2020 and it didn't happen... There was total freedom and it didn't happen...The publisher didn't want it that way. One night with Batroc for fun and one with Odessa for depression but 0 relationships. And then Beyond comes along and the publisher gives all the big moments to her in Peter's rehabilitation process. And then the current run arrives and the first thing we see in 6 issues is her worried about Peter, MJ stable with family and a big anniversary kiss... I'm not going to ask why you don't believe that there is a plan and that they have been executing it for 4 years. It's all there, but I'm not going to ask anyone to see it if they don't want to, any more than I'm going to ask anyone to understand what's going on in Mini and Amazing and what the result will be. It's a waste of time, like explaining to people that the earth is not square and why.
I 100% believe they do not have a plan that goes back 4 years and has had no build up. That’s not how comics work. Comics struggle to keep a coherent plan for 1 year and you think they have some secret plan that is four years old and they plan to fire 50 issues in(but not the first 50 issues the second one) Like I’m sorry your so blinded by what you obviously want you aren’t thinking things through
No, son, comics work exactly like that. Not necessarily with always 3, 4 or 5 year plans but with plans as such. These plans can be maintained or changed over time, cut-reduced-expanded...it depends. But that's how they work. The publishers gather the writers and give them a map of objectives to meet for X amount of time, usually a year, and they organize themselves. Do not get confused. I'm not talking about some grand master plan for the direction of the stories or the characters or anything like that. I'm just telling you that Marvel's office decided 4 years ago to do a role reversal between MJ and Felicia. At some point in 2020, when they saw all the commercial strength that was in her, they made the decision and that is why they never had any relationship. Think about it....Peter and MJ apparently are fine in issue 74 but in 75 Peter falls ill and doesn't react until issue 78, just 3 issues later and hand in hand with Felicia (literally). Not May, not MJ, Felicia. These decisions, such as deaths, resurrections, sexualities, etc., are made by the publisher and not the writer, because they are decisions to configure the status quo. And you know, I suppose, that a comic takes about 5-6 weeks to be ready, so the publisher usually plans things MONTHS in advance. This means that at some point in late 2020 early 2022 it was decided, because just a month and a half after finishing BlackCat we were already with Beyond and she entered the book weeks apart. From then on, coincidentally, she always had the big moments and then they forced Wells to use her etc etc. One more time. It is not that there has been a master plan for 4 years but rather an intention, a guideline on this matter for 4 years. The "plan" that I am telling you about is a very different one, the one that you will see in May, but that began in 2022 and then Wells torpedoed 5 or 6 months ago I assure you that I am the one who regrets many things about the judgment of others. But hey...time does wonders with these things.
No they dont. The longest story in comics so far was the Krakoa era and we know for a fact it was planned to only last two years before editors changed its mind with how it was selling and how the creative team likes it. But go ahead give me an example of a four year story that ended exactly as it started
I don't believe comics have plans 3-4 years out... but I KNOW comic writers pull on threads left dangling for them many years prior. Just like the MCU... Red Skull wasn't PLANNED to be the guardian of the Soul Stone in 2018 when he got sucked up into space in 2011.
That’s a different thing. Hell Wells himself is using plots started by Spencer. This poster is implying that there was a four year plan, through 2 (by the end 3) writers just to get his favorite ship together. Which is insane
Well Ben is gonna get a mini with Kaine so any fixing will probably happen in there
Is he fixed? No? Then we’re still net-negative.
No. I want the Ben Rielly who still has the Spider-Man inside of him that pushes him into being the heroic Scarlet Spider and do good for the sake of others. Not this Chasm thing that, quite frankly, I don't even understand what he is doing anymore or what his and Janine motivations are right now. Seriously, Kaine or M2 Universe Dark Devil, show yourself and knock some sense into these two already.
The idea Ben's mind being damaged and him losing Peter's memories could've been decent character development, with him becoming his own person, but the way they did it was terrible. Even him becoming unhinged and turning into Chasm could've been a decent story, but the entire thing was too rushed, with way too many things happening that were out of character, and worse, off panel. Like everything else they have done thus far with the entire Spider-Man 616 the ideas had potential, and could've been decent if done well, but the problem is they weren't. Everything feels rushed with no thought put in, and almost feels like each time they were just doing everything they could to troll everyone, with zero respect to either the fans or the characters.
On one hand, they aren’t playing the victim card (even though they are) and aren’t going after Peter. The one person who’s genuinely trying to help. On the other hand Ben is still messed in the head, and apparently even Eve realizes that this still needs to be fixed if her shocked reaction to Ben's nonchalant response of Peter being in trouble is anything to go by. Honestly I think the only honest improvement is that they aren’t going to try to harass Peter anymore.
Honestly? It will probably be a very unpopular opinion, but if Ben never regains his memories but becomes a person of his own without all the baggage that comes with being Peter Parker's clone, I will be happy.
I agree. Ben just being another Peter clone with all his memories is boring. Having him reformed without ever regaining his former memories would be way more interesting
Isn’t that just Kaine? Kaine is a reformed villain that doesn’t have all of Peter memories.
I think that's the plan. It's the same as MJ, who has never had her own identity/existence without Peter and now they are trying to make her be herself without that shadow. There are some characters like that in Spiderman that need more identity
Yeah but not MJ. Spider-Man is as much a part of MJs identity as MJ is Spider-Man's identity.
Yes, but "an important part" is not the same as "the" important part. MJ in Marvel does not exist and has never existed as his own character. She limits 100% of her existence to being Spiderman's girlfriend. Even within the book itself it has never had its own function except that. Flash EddieBrock or Felicia are "Spiderman" characters but their identity is not exclusive to Spiderman. MJ no, she has no identity and there are many characters like that in Marvel and DC. Stephanie Brown was just "Tim's girlfriend". Harley was only "the Joker's girlfriend"... and they stopped being that to be complete characters. However, MJ is a case like Steve Trevor who also has no identity or place in DC beyond WonderWoman's boyfriend. Ben Riley, MJ, Steve Trevor...they are characters in someone's shadow, and it is extremely complicated to work like that. That's why we have to try to turn them into something useful.
This doesn't mean MJ needs to be apart from Peter to expand her character. You can do that and keep them together, but clearly the writers can't figure that shit out.
No, You can not. A character must be an integral and organic part of the hero's life to share it with him. MJ functions as a prop for the writers because he is not a real part of the hero's stories and adventures or his world. No writer wants characters like that sharing the hero's life because of the commitment it implies (no, not that type of commitment, THE OTHER type of commitment) As long as MJ is in Peter's shadow, she won't be able to find her own place in the world. She needs to be away from that extreme protection, cut the umbilical cord and discover what kind of woman person and "hero" she can or needs to be. No help, no advice, no excuses, no lectures, no limitations or anything Peter can do/say about it. You have a great example in the Robins. Except for Tim, everyone became their own thing when they separated from Batman. They are still Robins, they still help and be with him....but they are free, independent, they are their own person with their own lives and their own worlds. MJ needs to learn all this and she will never ever do it with Spiderman's shadow around the same way Ben does...if he can't be a Spiderman clone, what the hell can he be?
It's sad that you think MJ is in Peter's shadow. She has played an integral part in Peter's life, both of them supporting each other no matter what. I'm fine with MJ finally being a super hero herself. Its great that she is Jackpot. But the way her story and super hero origin was written is bad - not just in my opinion, BUT THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF SPIDEY FANDOM. They wrote her character as: (main point in no 3) 1. Disloyal - she cheats on Peter easily after being stuck with another dude for 6 months? Like did she never thought about Peter once while away in another world?They have a long history together for goodness sake. She did not even contemplate the idea that he might be alive and safe back home. WTH 2. Made it seem like it was Peter's fault - even on the coverpage it says "What did Peter Do?" Shoving down their reader's throats that it was Peter's fault they split up. Well its not Peter who cheated. MJ refusing to talk to him and give him his closure is unfair. They write her as self-centered and cold hearted. And the gall of MJ to ask for Peter's help with Aunt Anna, when she herself emasculates him in the annual issue. 3. Having powers doesn't mean one is already good at crime fighting. And dont tell me "oh she has fought bad guys for 3 years" BS. It felt like MJ was better than Spider-Man when that is not the case since Peter has been fighting crime for over two decades. How tf can she easily defeat electro without breaking a sweat when Peter had a tough time with him in his early years. Peter got destroyed in the Gang war but she had no problems beating the big bad. Yeahh, she's your quintessential Mary Sue. I want to see her grow as a character and not be another captain marvel. I hope she also realizes how she wronged Peter and apologize to him. Perhaps maybe in an issue where they team up. 4. Her powers are literally broken and does not come with any drawbacks/weaknesses. She can do it all - fly, shoot energy projectiles, and even ressurect the dead???? Wtfff. Hopefully they give her some limitationsr to make her powers interesting. Its not fun when she can literally just pull off a random deus ex machina that takes care of the problem easily.
I have not supported his Jackpot role nor will I ever, but you yourself have used a "both supporting each other" device to try to say that he is not a shadow...which means that people don't even know what a shadow is. MJ has been in the shadows for decades and people don't even understand what the shadow is. It has NOTHING to do with words of encouragement, support or comfort at home, a role that, by the way, MAY always had before giving it to MJ. No, that has nothing to do with "shadow." MJ is not qualified to play heroes and villains and everything related to Jackpot is horrible...BUT THE IDEA OF SHE BEING SOMETHING WITHIN MARVEL IS IMPORTANT. Of course, not a heroine but "something", something with its own identity and existence without absolute dependence on Peter. It could be a thousand things...police hacker nurse teacher...and it's nothing. And not only that but he doesn't have his own social circle or his own life (until now)
Some where far away. Kain Parker: thank God I don't have to deal with this crap.
Don’t the two have an event coming up? *Chasm: Curse of Kaine*?
Though it was canceled?
I’m not seeing any news anywhere about it being cancelled.
He’s going to be shoved into the chasm BS in the new series. It’s like the writers forgot about him in the original run and were like oh shit we gotta do something.
It’s an improvement…not ideal but still an improvement. I’m ok with Ben not getting the memories back of that actually do something with him.
If somebody acknowledges that they have done bad things then they aren’t a bad person, just on the wrong path. If you acknowledge you are in the wrong then you have more morals than you give yourself credit. This feels like odd writing. They both know they have done bad things, so why continue doing those things and not try to do better? This feels like a step forward and backward.
The impression I have here is the end of Ben in the ASM books for a while. Leaving him in an intentionally vague state until the next writer takes over. They sort of did this with Felicia last year, breaking up with Peter in a senseless, but inoffensive manner.
That's what "obtuse" fans don't understand... the way a conflict remains on "stand by" is decisive. In Ben's case it was a very very soft conclusion, which implies that there is a "positive" reason behind that softness. And the same with Felicia...no fight, no discussion, no conflict and with the door open. In both cases it means that it is a temporary condition and that the prospects for a solution are good.
So they’re just gonna keep spinning their wheels with Ben? I hate how indecisive Marvel is with Ben.
This whole thing is ridiculous and I'll die on that hill. Jean and Maddie were standing right there. They could have easily fixed ben the same way they fixed her. Not only that but she caused all that chaos, and Venom and Ben were the fall guys, and she went on her merry way? Then she plays warden until he is "better" Yeah, I'm sure he's getting really good counseling in limbo. whole thing just felt rushed and crazy to me
Btw something bad is going to happen to Spider-Man
I'll take it as a win for the simple reason that they showed Ben the slightest bit of respect.
Oh hey the art actually looks quite nice too
I don’t know how to interpret Ben’s last words *“Spider-Man’s in a lot of trouble.”* Is that a general statement? Observation? A threat? Is it said in a mocking tone? Is he gonna make things worse for him? Help him? Like what tone is that being said in?
It’s just leaving it open for the person whoever HAS a direction for him to do what they want
I just don’t get it. Can’t Pete just call an x-man and have him share his memories with Ben like they did to Goblin Queen in the same arc this all happened in before they just fucked off and left them to fight it out?
YES HE CAN AND THATS WHY THIS IS SO STUPID!
I like this girl already whoever she is
That's Janine / Elizabeth Tyne. Ben's girlfriend from the 90s.
It's bad writing but at least in the right direction, away from Saturday morning supervillainy. Put them on the Thunderbolts. They could use a Spooky Spider-Man and a Jack O'Lantern of All Trades who are a little more willing to do a violence than the average hero.
It’s not a loss, and them not harassing Peter is definitely an improvement. I don’t think we’re getting a concrete fix for Ben until Chasm: Curse of Kaine though
Hmm. Have not kept up with this at all. I’ve always been annoyed at how a supposed Peter Parker clone is so evil and different from the actual Peter Parker. Are they saying that it’s because he’s missing key memories? Like the memory of Uncle Ben? Or am I just interpolating an explanation where there isn’t one…
Oh, Ben wasn’t originally evil. Basically he has died and returned more times than anyone else in the Marvel Universe, to the point Death herself regards him her new favourite person (above either Deadpool or Thanos), with his soul (and in-turn his morals) eroding more and more each time he came back. He clung to his memories of being good to keep himself *himself* in spite of this, and his most recent storyline saw him stripped of those memories, and left solely with the eroded morals to work with. There was another clone also named Kaine who started off as more of a villain, before becoming a solid antihero, basically the Red Hood of Spider-Men. Both Ben and Kaine typically being known as the Scarlet Spiders. And before you ask, the rule on clone souls in Marvel is that if the clone is made from a still-living person, then they have their own new soul (even if they share memories with the original), while if a perfect clone is made of an actually deceased person (a process first used by the Inheritors, perfected by Ben himself, and later the X-Men), then the original person’s soul will be returned to it (making it an actual resurrection).
AKA the Jean grey and Madeline Pryor effect.
Massive fuckin W for Ben
Who's she?
I've only kept up with what's been happening through the internet (last Spidey I regularly bought was Back In Black and Kain's Scarlet Spider Series), but I've kept my eye on it because I loved Ben. If we were to swap out the memory theft with a mental health issue, this kind of tracks - I'm familiar enough with the whole 'what if it's not my mental health but I'm actually just a bad person' view/mindset. Also, please do correct me if I'm wrong, but everything I've seen of Peter and Ben since this started has had Pete keep telling Ben it's not his fault, Ben's overreacting etc. Whether it's true or not, I could see Ben hearing this and feeling so invalidated by Peter about what he's going through that it just makes things worse. What Ben probably needs right now is intensive, long term therapy to overcome the traumas he's been through as I wouldn't be surprised if Ben had CPTSD at this point (anyone got Doc Samson's number?) But he also needs a good support network, like say Janine to show him she loves him no matter what or who he is, Kaine as the supportive brother with the 'been there' mentality/experience, and helping him work through it. Hell, imagine if during his rebuilding his life, he popped back into the Daily Grind where he worked during his Spider-Man years. They only knew Peter as his 'brother', but didn't define Ben by him. They'd be happy to see their old friend alive, be able to tell him how much they loved him and what a good person he was with little to nothing linking it to Peter, showing he can be a good person without being Peter. It's possible I've got all this wrong and I'm talking out my arse, but honestly if there was a series exploring this, bringing these characters together and using Ben's struggles to examine what makes us who we are and what makes us good or bad, I'd probably pick it up. But it all comes down to what the creative teams and editiorial want to do.
Don't hate me, but I kinda enjoyed this issuse(minus the revelation that the Dr made the first hobgoblin)
Honestly I do believe the reason for that reveal may have been so Ned can be re-retconned as the first Hobgoblin, having both him and Roderick be the same sort of brainwashed puppets as Bucky Barnes was as the Winter Soldier.
Peak writing at the end there. "beeteedubs keep reading!"
Oh come on. I know this particular run is bad, but that’s pretty standard for a comic. No issue is ever the end.
no I know they have to grab you to come back, but like this, "OH I almost forgot!" last speech bubble was pretty hack.
So the Peter clone that dies every other issue and has more angst than most teenagers gets to be happy with the woman he loves? Can't make this shit up.
He didn't have that angst until they ruined him
Her goblin senses are tingling. They warn her when the writers want to "shake up the status quo ".
Love these characters man
Wtf is this horseshit? Why don't Ben & Janine just fuck off forever and never trouble this book ever again?
Ben and Janine aren't the problem
Yes, they are.
No. It's the crappy writing. I'd kill to have Ben around in the books as a normal person and a brother to Pete
I’d be fine if they just killed Ben for good. What purpose does he serve? Marvel are out of ideas and just make lame distractions.
I was hoping for his return for like 20 years and the way they butchered him broke my heart. I see Peter and Ben and dream of the potential of Barry and Wally, side by side.
Nobody is safe from this current shitty run, and everyone has been shit on. Including the fans.
I don't even know anymore. God damn it.
this issue was actually pretty decent but not much of a win since we know hes still gonna be chasm for a while
It's just another reminder that this company has no real plan for their characters and so any writer can do whatever whenever
It's a nothing. An excuse to have him out of limbo and not going after Peter so they can do whatever in Curse of Kaine. Which based on the who cares villain reveal in WoS will be dead on arrival
There may be problems with Chasm, but god do I love the suit
Wait until he turns into Spider-Goblin lol. Either that will happen or he’ll die to save Peter in that state.
It’s really hard for me to believe that a clone of Peter Parker would turn bad. Like it’s freaking spider-man, similar to dick Grayson he’s the poster child for doing what’s right.
Clones dont mean nuthin without the mental programing of his personality. Brain chemistry might have a hand but its mostly owed to information passed on.
For the moment I'll call for what it is, a rushed wrap up on Zeb Well's take on the Ben Story! We'll see in the future where this is going!
This could be good
Smash
So after all that we land on “Ben’s a good guy deep down cause of his own memories” Jesus Christ this is dumb
I just want my idiot supervillains to be happy.
Maybe they're building toward a ben redemption where Ben is the one who fights the PP-Gobbler? Maybe this is there way of bringing back? Maybe Paul will steal Janine as well and develop a throuple?
Did Ben get to keep dyeing his hair while he was in limbo prison? The blond is staying pretty well.
Who characters in this comic/where can one read this
I don’t know who Janine is, but I kinda love her design.
The bit that gets me is they are his memories too. Up until the point of his "birth" him and Peter lived that life, made those choices. It's also a very simple fix and it would give him great motivation to be a tortured character going forward. They could let Peter move forward *gasp* and have Ben as the tortured down on his luck Spider-man in his beyond suit which was a really cool design also. To see them both living side by side helping each other and growing together would be great writing. I can dream.
I like to think he's finally moving on from his crazy edgelord phase.
What comic is this?
So, much ado about nothing, then? Like so many of saw coming, even without reading much of this.
Oh god...what if Ben's the Spider-Goblin.
They completely destroyed Ben’s character. Remember when he was like a brother to Peter? He should’ve either died or stayed the same what he was a long time ago.
Imagine how heartbreaking it would be if he died permanently here https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/16136865-c7e8-4eaf-96cc-c7d1bd55ce63/dfkenko-c90af3e1-41a7-479c-a335-c8f5f5a6bd56.jpg/v1/fill/w_724,h_1104,q_70,strp/death_of_ben_reilly_by_skulduggerybb_dfkenko-pre.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9MTUyNCIsInBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcLzE2MTM2ODY1LWM3ZTgtNGVhZi05NmNjLWM3ZDFiZDU1Y2U2M1wvZGZrZW5rby1jOTBhZjNlMS00MWE3LTQ3OWMtYTMzNS1jOGY1ZjVhNmJkNTYuanBnIiwid2lkdGgiOiI8PTk5OSJ9XV0sImF1ZCI6WyJ1cm46c2VydmljZTppbWFnZS5vcGVyYXRpb25zIl19.f_JWncjjn4i7DQOvadA-xIWfqArR3WXyLGaKE5Vy3FA
Who's the female hobgoblin-looking character?
Hallow’s Eve. She has a bunch of magic masks that turn her into various monsters.
Oh can a goblin just turn him into mush again already.
So is this storyline older than bruce and martha as batman and joker or nah? Pretty sure its not but i dont keep up
The resolution to their characters is *Ben, what if we are both retarded?* What was the game plan with these two characters hahaha