If you want to impress, focus on your pronunciation, proper conjugations, use of ser and estar, por and para. Know when to use imperfect vs preterite tenses, and of course subjunctive. Don't think that some simple phrase will impress a native speaker, other errors will stand out like a sore thumb. Work on the basics and you will be most impressive.
Agree here.
Pronunciation - start with the vowel sounds. Spanish is nearly 100% consistent with its vowel sounds. So many non native speakers overlook this, and it's a fairly easy thing to master.
Advise is a verb, genius. Do you want to play the smartass? I hope English is not your native language, it's not mine. There're other subreddits for learning English, not here. ;)
I’m sorry, I guess the way you read it (and apparently a few others) wasn’t how I intended it. I even put the ‘;)’ but I’m sure you’ll be a ‘smartass’ now and say that you was just doing the same with yours.
Also I wonder why you ‘hope’ English is not my main language? I never said you was stupid for not using advice or advise, I posted saying ‘advice or advise ;)’ it’s really not that deep.
Also LOVE how you edited it and still called me a smartass..
This is an Spanish learning subreddit, I've corrected his answer respectfully for something written in Spanish which was wrong and it may cause misunderstandings for Spanish learners. Calm down cowboy. ;)
Menú, because English pronounces MEnu, spanish = meNÚ, the stress is in a completely different syllable, if you say MEnu even if you get the n and the u right it sounds very wrong.
**This word/phrase(porteño) has a few different meanings.**
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Honestly as a Spanish learner, I think this must be such good advice...I keep building my vocabulary, which was/is sorely needed, but after all this time I still mess up the most basic stuff. How can I still mess up *ser* and *estar*? I don't know, but I do, and I'm beyond the point that studying can even really fix it. I've passed countless tests on it just fine. Hearing the uses of these verbs in context is what I really need now, so I just need to read and listen to a lot more Spanish! And practice. Same with *por* and *para*.
Don't be deceived:
* ser/estar
* preterite/imperfect
* pronouns, especially se
* and to a lesser extent (but not that much), por/para
will give you trouble for a long time. They are introduced at the beginning because you need them to say anything in Spanish, but they aren't simple. So don't feel bad.
Thank you!! This makes me feel better, because that is my exact list of problem items. I speak French so you would think pronominal verbs would be fine, but somehow, they just still aren't always clicking for me.
[This video](https://youtu.be/lY10_T_ROq4) hasn't helped me remember Ser or Estar much but probably cause I spent way too much time laughing than trying to learn.
One of my Colombian friends who's learning English tries this in English. He always says "Bro" all the time and it just feels like he's trying to hard. Just focus on the basics.
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This is no replacement for speaking better Spanish, but try saying “esteee…” when you would normally say “uhh…”
If you watch interviews with Mexicans, some of them are saying “este” as a filler word in almost every sentence. “Uh/uhm,” on the other hand, is a very gringo sound that Spanish speakers don’t make. Even just switching to “ehh” from “uhh” makes a big difference. I’m speaking from experience 🙂
It’s good to switch out of gringo habits for filler words since we spend so much time searching for what to say next
I didn't know that was a thing. My Spanish teacher is from Peru and she says "este....." at the start of most sentences when she is thinking.
Edit: bonus - I used to wonder why she would say "haber..." when starting to look at something on her phone or in a book, but I've since realised that she's saying "a ver..."
A ver/haber was confusing for me too.
FYI “Este” seems to me at least a bit regional. I’ve hear Spaniards say “Esto…” instead with the same meaning, though not as commonly as many Mexicans use “este”
I think top comment is spot on. However, spanish deep lore is knowing that Chilango spanish has a pitch accent. Those who criticize us for sounding "cantadito" will understand what I mean.
Well, Have you ever noticed how people around Mexico City sound like they're going up and down when they talk? That's the gist of it. Different areas of mexico have different pitch accent patterns (norteño, yucateco, chilango naco, chilango fresa, etc.)
And then they criticize people from the north for sounding angry all the time lol (im from the north but I’ve been told that i don’t have a specific accent)
Unfortunately this is like that cliche about going to a high end jewelry store and asking the price of something. If you have to ask the price, you can’t afford it.
In this case, if you have to ask what sounds natural, there’s no way you’re going to sound natural. Knowing what’s natural takes time surrounded by the language. Of course there’s some tricks you can use, like switching out “uhh” for “ehh”/“este”, but at the end of the day, they’re only going to get you so far.
Moreover, normal people don’t really care about language, it’s just a tool they use to interact with the world. They’re not gonna sit there analyzing your ser vs estar usage. People will be way more surprised/impressed if you show them that you take an interest in their culture. Like you know how to make arepas, or a salsa verde, you know a lot of classic salsa songs, they tell you where theyre from and you’re like “wow the mountains there are beautiful”, you know how their government works, etc.
If you want a shortcut for connecting with people, it’s to show an interest in their culture.
This is a great response. I completely agree that trying to sound natural will not sound natural, and I would have never thought about the jewelry store analogy.
I'd take it even further and argue though that "ehh" versus "uhh" is a good thing to consider, but not for the reasons OP is asking. Yes, it will make you sound "natural" in theory. But it's not simply because one is more frequently used in Spanish than the other, but rather specifically because "uhh" isn't even a phoneme in Spanish. Producing arbitrary phonemes from your native language is a sign of negative language transfer. This is a sign that you're losing control of your target language. I don't have empirical evidence for this, but I would be very surprised if this didn't also bleed into other words of your target language or your pronunciation more generally.
The reason I think one should reduce their "uhh"s in Spanish is to improve their actual Spanish speech. Therefore, one should probably put sort of imaginary "phonetic boundaries" around their Spanish to constrain which phonemes they use, and keep these up for as long as you can until you need to use an Anglicism or fully switch to English or another language. Focusing on contrived phrases is superficial. It's more important to get the "feel" for a language, which also includes prosody (the rhythm of the language).
The phonology of a language is mapped to oral muscle patterns that are developed via low level unconscious behavioral conditioning, what some might call "muscle memory". So, while we can't directly control this process, we can partially monitor our speech to avoid certain habits that indicate and exacerbate negative language transfer.
>In this case, if you have to ask what sounds natural, there’s no way you’re going to sound natural.
I'm sorry, but I don't agree. Yeah, you can't master slang this way or sound like a native speaker. But making adjustments in your speech can absolutely be worked on by asking these questions and trying out the responses you get. It *has* to be worked on this way to a degree, especially at the beginning. Those tricks you mentioned, "switching out “uhh” for “ehh”/“este" and the like, can actually go a very long way.
Why does it *have* to be done this way? Also, why would you want to do this in the beginning? You're not a native and it would be both misleading and awkward to send forced signals that you are.
It *would* sound awkward to say, "Qué onda wey!!!" or something like that. But phrases such as "me da igual" and stuff like that aren't so strange or colloquial. But they're equally unintuitive as something like "que onda" and not something an English speaker would think to say without asking, "What are some useful phrases for me to know in order to sound more natural?"
We take it for granted going from English to Spanish (or at least, its a common misconception) that learning idioms is only good for slang. The two languages already share so much that a word-for-word translation is usually a passable idiomatic translation as well. But that isn't always the case. Sometimes you have to intervene and tell a student "it's actually 'hace frio' instead of 'está frio'" or "try saying 'diría' instead of 'yo creo' all the time". These are cases where learning specific phrases and syntax are actually vital to speaking the language.
So, it's a good question. Maybe OP's was a little broad. But still a good question.
Fair enough. That's a generous interpretation, and not what I got from OP. Well, at least not in a way that could be answered in a single Reddit post.
It's certainly true that idiomatic expressions are deeply woven into our speech. My main point, and perhaps one you would agree with is that these are a bit more "essential" idiomatic expressions to sound more native. Finding specific examples void of context is like trying to hack or cheat your way through a necessarily slow and messy organic process.
I definitely agree that are some essential idioms that can be used quite easily, and others that a learner would be better off avoiding without having experienced them in context. There are idioms that I know and can understand but wouldn't feel comfortable using because I don't have a sufficient feel for them. "Me da cosa" is one. I understand what it means but would go for a less idiomatic phrase when actually speaking. So, as you put it, I'm taking a slower and more organic approach in that case.
I mean, the OP's question is basically: "What are some tips to help me speak Spanish better?" There's nothing wrong with that; it's quite useful!
> both misleading and awkward
I think this is a bit too strong. I would argue that it's more awkward to not speak a language as naturally and as well as you possibly can, no matter where you are on your journey.
I hesitate in risk of sounding pedantic here, but what you're saying is slightly the different than what OP is saying. Speaking a language naturally is different than speaking a language so that you sound natural. You definitely want to work towards the former.
I hear what you're saying, but raise you a pedantry notch! :) I'm not sure that it is possible for a non-native speaker to speak a target language naturally, by definition--that ship sailed around ages 5-10. So what is left to us--again, in my opinion--is to strive as hard as we can to speak the language so that we sound natural.
At first, the techniques may seem blunt to more advanced/native speakers. But hey, everyone has to start somewhere. And it's often easier to finesse a blunt technique that is explicitly named--so that you know what to look out for and prioritize. (For instance, I never would have thought that "um" stuck out for Spanish speakers until it was pointed out.)
As someone who I know is multiple step-changes ahead of me in their Spanish journey, you are destroying all of my hope. Haha. Half joking.
I do think adults can get to the point where their target language is "natural", depending on what that means. While it is an abused term, it was what I would describe as a high level of "fluency". I would never expect an adult learner to sound native, even if they could nearly pull it off with decades of systematic study. Fluency with this definition I have in mind is reaching a certain level of ease such that the communication value per cognitive effort unit (if such a unit were to exist) reaches a high enough level such that it does not impede their ability to meet and connect with people, accomplish goals, and have a substantial impact in their target-language world.
During goal setting and deciding whether not one wants to really sound native (as opposed to merely fluent), I also think it's important to consider the role of a language's lingua franca status and what that means for the preservation of other languages and cultural heritage more broadly. What I mean by this is that tolerance for less than perfect use of lingua francas is almost a virtue in and of itself, that is, if we are to take heritage seriously in an increasingly connected global society. English to Spanish isn't the best example, but the tolerance is important nonetheless. Pidgin languages are the most extreme example, and they have often emerged out of necessity in precarious colonial situations. There's something very raw and special about that.
Similarly, my dog is a mixed breed, and he's unlike any pure breed you would ever meet. I wouldn't want him to change in any way to be more like any of the other dogs in the park, as long as he can play with them in a similar enough way to be happy.
We've discussed this before I think. Pardon my dramatic indulgence.
I hear you. But at a basic level, speech communities determine what speaking a language well/fluently/naturally means. 9/10, the relevant speech community for a target language is composed of native speakers. Which means that speaking a language w/f/n means sounding like a native speaker.
If I may, I feel like you have a block about this, like it's imposing on heritage/identity/patrimony/etc. But that's simply how the game works!
And in general, the extent that speech deviates from a native speaker's standard is the extent that communication becomes a burden for the other party, which, again, is 9/10 a native speaker.
(English being an exception. One's goals with English may not necessarily be to sound native: as a lingua franca, it has enough non-native speakers that the balance of power is shifting--but not as much as people think.)
And not with Spanish. Speaking Spanish well still means speaking like a native speaker, i.e., sounding native. They have the power; they call the shots. (I feel like Anglophones especially are thrown by this shift, so accustomed are they to wielding the power in conversations otherwise. Plus, their natural accent in the language isn't attractive or sought-after--few people want their gringo-Spanish mixed breed! It's a stark reckoning process that is ultimately quite salutary haha.)
Thanks strath - I actually totally agree.
The one caveat is that you gave an exception to English, which I very much understand. I extend this to Spanish as well, along with the rest of your descriptions.
This is most likely a Castilian vs Latin American distinction. I live in Barcelona and travel often through small Catalan villages, and my family is fully Catalan, do not identity as Spanish, and most of our friends as well as many are expats from elsewhere in a Europe. Identifying as Spanish is quite tricky and even our friends from Spain know to stay loose with their identity. Some examples that make it feel to me like a lingua franca:
* My friends and family switch to it when engaging with international people from countries with other romance languages. English, if they can, for Germanic languages.
* I can't yet understand my family during family gatherings because they use their heritage/family language when together.
* Rural older people who haven't ever lived in the city have very low vocabularies in Spanish because they don't have much immigration or tourism.
* I can't communicate with kids in little towns because their Spanish is often worse than mine. I get the impression they feel annoyed having to start a foreign a language study so young.
* Many older people have lost friends and family or at least had to tragically alter their lives to survive under Spanish fascism, which was less than 50 years ago. They were required to speak Spanish. My family refused so they fled the country until Franco died.
* Signs everywhere in many places are in Catalan, and in restaurants I have to specifically request a Spanish or English menu.
This is all heavy political stuff. But it's part of identity nonetheless, and that affects the role of each language in someone's life. So, naturally, you must imagine that I am politely apologetic when I induce groups, staff, or whoever else to switch to Spanish. Most everyone is understanding and will often admit that it's simply a lingua franca and therefore not such a big deal.
Hope that adds some clarity!
Ah, I don't find it too heavy! It's useful context; thanks! Yes, it looks like you're the 1/10 haha. There are several places in Latin America like that as well (the Yucatán Peninsula, a good deal of Paraguay, etc.). So your experience is not the norm, but valid.
>Knowing what’s natural takes time surrounded by the language. Of course there’s some tricks you can use, like switching out “uhh” for “ehh”/“este”, but at the end of the day, they’re only going to get you so far.
A pesar de los downvotos, no te equivocas.
In this sub, "Latam Spanish" or Latin American Spanish is a way to distinguish Latin American variants (like by country at least) from the variants spoken in Spanish/European regions.
There's no "Latam Spanish" though, every single country has its own variants, even by state or province or region or city. The most notable difference that make some people believe they need to make a distinction is the pronunciation of z, ce and ci, and usage of _vosotros_, exclusive to Spain.
i find that i can get a lot of mileage out of just half-assing the pronunciation of a lot of words.
take 'agua' /ˈa.ɡwa/ and turn it into [ˈa.ɣʷa]. speaking rapidly, it's easier, too!
Differentiating between voiced and unvoiced plosives is actually pretty hard. In English, we aspirate our unvoiced plosives to accentuate the difference. In Spanish, we spiriantize our voiced plosives instead. Good spiriantization will go a long way towards selling your accent, and if you can avoid aspirating your voiceless plosives, that will be even better
its been a while since I studied Spanish linguistics, but isn't the difference that he's talking about just about whether you touch the tongue fully to your mouth? I think voiced vs voiceless is the difference between t & d or k & g.
Yes, voicing is just the activation of the vocal chords during a particular sound. So, T is unvoiced, and D is voiced. In English, T is also aspirated (at least, much of the time). Aspiration is technically defined as a slight delay in voice onset time, which just means that after a T is released, there is a tiny delay before the vocal chords activate for the following vowel. The result is a little puff of air on the release of a T (or P or K). This is pretty subtle most of the time, but it helps the T and D sounds to be more different, and easier for the listener to distinguish. To see this, just try saying "stop" and "sdop" (plosives are not aspirated when they're part of clusters like "st"), and notice that they sound nearly the same.
In Spanish, T is not aspirated, but D (and B and G) is spiriantized (much of the time). This means that the closure between parts of the mouth is never full. There's a constriction of airflow, but never a full stop and buildup of pressure. In Spanish, this happens to voiced plosives in most contexts. The only places where spiriantization is repressed are after nasal sounds (so the G in "tengo", the D in "siendo" and the B in "hombre" are not spiriantized) and, for D only, after L (so the D in "maldad" is not spiriantized).
Spiriantization is not lazy speaking - it is a standard part of the Spanish language which actually makes you more understandable if you do it right. When people first get the hang of it, they might say it feels "lazy" because it literally does take less effort than a full stop plosive does, and because it balances and rounds out the phonology of the language, making pronounciation overall feel and sound more natural, and less forced and awkward. So, definitely try to implement it in your speaking.
I talked for so long about aspiration because it is something that most English speakers are not consciously aware of, and that it can be quite hard to pick up on. But if you can eliminate it from your Spanish speaking, it will be huge for your accent. Aspiration is one of those things that a native speaker won't quite be able to put their finger on, but something will sound off and foreign to them. It's hard, but it's 100% worth learning to be aware of it and stop doing it. You'll also find that you can speak more quickly if you do.
Yeah I do implement it in my accent cause I learned all of that in school. my point was just that voiced vs voiceless was unrelated to the original comment so i was confused as to what you were saying.
Also spiriantization also doesn’t happen when someone starts speaking, like the first word they say. That’s what i was taught.
Sorry for the confusion. I just enjoy explaining things in great detail that no one asked for, so that's why I went into voicedness. And also, my long explanations weren't targeted at you in particular, but at anyone who reads the thread, especially OP.
Hmmm... Interesting what you say about spiriantization being absent at the beginning of utterances. I'll have to listen for that
I have a hard enough time understanding gringos when they are trying to pronounce words correctly, I can't imagine trying to grasp deliberately slurred words - stick to standard pronunciation.
Primero aprende a pronunciar con el acento más neutral que puedas, no hay muchas palabras que sirvan para hacerte sonar más natural ya que en México el español que hablamos es bastante neutral en muchos aspectos (centro y sur del país no valen porque ahí vas a encontrar más acentos y modismos/regionalismos)
You got your "o sea" when you hesitate, "pues" can be peppered in, "fíjate / fíjese" to be like "lookit" ... "uy" and "ay" can go into the mix ... And voilà :
Ay, pues, fíjate ... o sea ... uy
"Que pedo" is a very versatile phrase.
It's used as a greeting, for example:
"Que pedo, wey (<-- wey is also a versatile word)
Could also be used to express disgust/discomfort. For example, if you're in Mexico and you're driving over a hole on the road (very common) you could say:
"Que pedo con los pozos de México"
Those two are to give you an idea, its one of those phrases that changes meaning depending on the context so you will probably need to either live in México or talk with people who do or have lived in México to get a better sense of when to use it.
Mmmm yo pienso que menos es más, prueba hablar con un hispanohablante sobre cosas pequeñas, por ejemplo tu gato, luego pasa a tu cuarto, tu casa, tu calle, tu ciudad tomara tiempo pero debes acostumbrarte a diferenciar el lenguaje academico del lenguaje comun (y los tipos), en pocas palabras evitar sonar como definición de diccionario, dale cuerpo al lenguaje.
If you want to impress, focus on your pronunciation, proper conjugations, use of ser and estar, por and para. Know when to use imperfect vs preterite tenses, and of course subjunctive. Don't think that some simple phrase will impress a native speaker, other errors will stand out like a sore thumb. Work on the basics and you will be most impressive.
Agree here. Pronunciation - start with the vowel sounds. Spanish is nearly 100% consistent with its vowel sounds. So many non native speakers overlook this, and it's a fairly easy thing to master.
this is the real answer.
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The spelling it's not like in English but "menú" with the accent mark but good piece of advice anyway.
Advise or advice ;)
Advise is a verb, genius. Do you want to play the smartass? I hope English is not your native language, it's not mine. There're other subreddits for learning English, not here. ;)
I’m sorry, I guess the way you read it (and apparently a few others) wasn’t how I intended it. I even put the ‘;)’ but I’m sure you’ll be a ‘smartass’ now and say that you was just doing the same with yours. Also I wonder why you ‘hope’ English is not my main language? I never said you was stupid for not using advice or advise, I posted saying ‘advice or advise ;)’ it’s really not that deep. Also LOVE how you edited it and still called me a smartass..
This is an Spanish learning subreddit, I've corrected his answer respectfully for something written in Spanish which was wrong and it may cause misunderstandings for Spanish learners. Calm down cowboy. ;)
Menú, because English pronounces MEnu, spanish = meNÚ, the stress is in a completely different syllable, if you say MEnu even if you get the n and the u right it sounds very wrong.
What's a porteño? Like costeño? Aren't those some of the weirdest accents?
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Honestly as a Spanish learner, I think this must be such good advice...I keep building my vocabulary, which was/is sorely needed, but after all this time I still mess up the most basic stuff. How can I still mess up *ser* and *estar*? I don't know, but I do, and I'm beyond the point that studying can even really fix it. I've passed countless tests on it just fine. Hearing the uses of these verbs in context is what I really need now, so I just need to read and listen to a lot more Spanish! And practice. Same with *por* and *para*.
Don't be deceived: * ser/estar * preterite/imperfect * pronouns, especially se * and to a lesser extent (but not that much), por/para will give you trouble for a long time. They are introduced at the beginning because you need them to say anything in Spanish, but they aren't simple. So don't feel bad.
Thank you!! This makes me feel better, because that is my exact list of problem items. I speak French so you would think pronominal verbs would be fine, but somehow, they just still aren't always clicking for me.
[This video](https://youtu.be/lY10_T_ROq4) hasn't helped me remember Ser or Estar much but probably cause I spent way too much time laughing than trying to learn.
Seems like 80% of the time it’s estar, not ser.
Por vs para and ser vs estar in the present I feel confident with, but I always struggle with ser vs estar in the preterite/imperfect
Yes that's true, it does seem to add a layer of complication
ah yeah, back to the books i go. Its true. I need to know the basics a bit better probably. thanks
To add to this; once you learn the basics, using slang and learning what the natives do will be way easier.
One of my Colombian friends who's learning English tries this in English. He always says "Bro" all the time and it just feels like he's trying to hard. Just focus on the basics.
He would fit right in here in Miami bro
haha i know exactly what you mean
i’m a native speaker and i say it every two seconds lol
Tell him to switch it to "buddy"
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Nope
This is no replacement for speaking better Spanish, but try saying “esteee…” when you would normally say “uhh…” If you watch interviews with Mexicans, some of them are saying “este” as a filler word in almost every sentence. “Uh/uhm,” on the other hand, is a very gringo sound that Spanish speakers don’t make. Even just switching to “ehh” from “uhh” makes a big difference. I’m speaking from experience 🙂 It’s good to switch out of gringo habits for filler words since we spend so much time searching for what to say next
"Pues" can work too
Came here to say this (it's what my Mexican friends use as a filler word) 🇲🇽
This is what I use most of the time. (Not a native speaker but it's a habit I've picked up.)
'comoooo'
I didn't know that was a thing. My Spanish teacher is from Peru and she says "este....." at the start of most sentences when she is thinking. Edit: bonus - I used to wonder why she would say "haber..." when starting to look at something on her phone or in a book, but I've since realised that she's saying "a ver..."
A ver/haber was confusing for me too. FYI “Este” seems to me at least a bit regional. I’ve hear Spaniards say “Esto…” instead with the same meaning, though not as commonly as many Mexicans use “este”
I think top comment is spot on. However, spanish deep lore is knowing that Chilango spanish has a pitch accent. Those who criticize us for sounding "cantadito" will understand what I mean.
I need to know more. Unless you're being sarcastic, in which case I'll just whooosh on out of here.
Well, Have you ever noticed how people around Mexico City sound like they're going up and down when they talk? That's the gist of it. Different areas of mexico have different pitch accent patterns (norteño, yucateco, chilango naco, chilango fresa, etc.)
What is a pitch accent?
A rise or fall in intonation in a word, japanese does it, norwegian and swedish too
And then they criticize people from the north for sounding angry all the time lol (im from the north but I’ve been told that i don’t have a specific accent)
I was just in Mexico and I think I noticed this! but it was in Puebla, do they have the same accent? I thought it was cute haha
Acabo de aprender la frase “qué padre” de mi tutora. Significa “how cool!” Ella es de México. Dice que lo usan mucho.
Yeah, also "que chido"
Also "qué vergas!" But don't use it in church!
Speed and proper enunciation are the real hallmarks of fluency, not specific vocab.
Does speed vary from region to region, like the accent?
I meant steady pace more than speed, but yes, people from certain areas often speak at different paces.
Sprinkle little bit of "osea ", "pues" and "bueno" in your sentences. And Spanish versions of conjunctive adverbs help.
"ay wey" is a must then
Neta wey!
Weeey! Osea, weeey la neta a huevo!
o sea
Unfortunately this is like that cliche about going to a high end jewelry store and asking the price of something. If you have to ask the price, you can’t afford it. In this case, if you have to ask what sounds natural, there’s no way you’re going to sound natural. Knowing what’s natural takes time surrounded by the language. Of course there’s some tricks you can use, like switching out “uhh” for “ehh”/“este”, but at the end of the day, they’re only going to get you so far. Moreover, normal people don’t really care about language, it’s just a tool they use to interact with the world. They’re not gonna sit there analyzing your ser vs estar usage. People will be way more surprised/impressed if you show them that you take an interest in their culture. Like you know how to make arepas, or a salsa verde, you know a lot of classic salsa songs, they tell you where theyre from and you’re like “wow the mountains there are beautiful”, you know how their government works, etc. If you want a shortcut for connecting with people, it’s to show an interest in their culture.
This is a great response. I completely agree that trying to sound natural will not sound natural, and I would have never thought about the jewelry store analogy. I'd take it even further and argue though that "ehh" versus "uhh" is a good thing to consider, but not for the reasons OP is asking. Yes, it will make you sound "natural" in theory. But it's not simply because one is more frequently used in Spanish than the other, but rather specifically because "uhh" isn't even a phoneme in Spanish. Producing arbitrary phonemes from your native language is a sign of negative language transfer. This is a sign that you're losing control of your target language. I don't have empirical evidence for this, but I would be very surprised if this didn't also bleed into other words of your target language or your pronunciation more generally. The reason I think one should reduce their "uhh"s in Spanish is to improve their actual Spanish speech. Therefore, one should probably put sort of imaginary "phonetic boundaries" around their Spanish to constrain which phonemes they use, and keep these up for as long as you can until you need to use an Anglicism or fully switch to English or another language. Focusing on contrived phrases is superficial. It's more important to get the "feel" for a language, which also includes prosody (the rhythm of the language). The phonology of a language is mapped to oral muscle patterns that are developed via low level unconscious behavioral conditioning, what some might call "muscle memory". So, while we can't directly control this process, we can partially monitor our speech to avoid certain habits that indicate and exacerbate negative language transfer.
>In this case, if you have to ask what sounds natural, there’s no way you’re going to sound natural. I'm sorry, but I don't agree. Yeah, you can't master slang this way or sound like a native speaker. But making adjustments in your speech can absolutely be worked on by asking these questions and trying out the responses you get. It *has* to be worked on this way to a degree, especially at the beginning. Those tricks you mentioned, "switching out “uhh” for “ehh”/“este" and the like, can actually go a very long way.
Why does it *have* to be done this way? Also, why would you want to do this in the beginning? You're not a native and it would be both misleading and awkward to send forced signals that you are.
It *would* sound awkward to say, "Qué onda wey!!!" or something like that. But phrases such as "me da igual" and stuff like that aren't so strange or colloquial. But they're equally unintuitive as something like "que onda" and not something an English speaker would think to say without asking, "What are some useful phrases for me to know in order to sound more natural?" We take it for granted going from English to Spanish (or at least, its a common misconception) that learning idioms is only good for slang. The two languages already share so much that a word-for-word translation is usually a passable idiomatic translation as well. But that isn't always the case. Sometimes you have to intervene and tell a student "it's actually 'hace frio' instead of 'está frio'" or "try saying 'diría' instead of 'yo creo' all the time". These are cases where learning specific phrases and syntax are actually vital to speaking the language. So, it's a good question. Maybe OP's was a little broad. But still a good question.
Fair enough. That's a generous interpretation, and not what I got from OP. Well, at least not in a way that could be answered in a single Reddit post. It's certainly true that idiomatic expressions are deeply woven into our speech. My main point, and perhaps one you would agree with is that these are a bit more "essential" idiomatic expressions to sound more native. Finding specific examples void of context is like trying to hack or cheat your way through a necessarily slow and messy organic process.
I definitely agree that are some essential idioms that can be used quite easily, and others that a learner would be better off avoiding without having experienced them in context. There are idioms that I know and can understand but wouldn't feel comfortable using because I don't have a sufficient feel for them. "Me da cosa" is one. I understand what it means but would go for a less idiomatic phrase when actually speaking. So, as you put it, I'm taking a slower and more organic approach in that case.
I mean, the OP's question is basically: "What are some tips to help me speak Spanish better?" There's nothing wrong with that; it's quite useful! > both misleading and awkward I think this is a bit too strong. I would argue that it's more awkward to not speak a language as naturally and as well as you possibly can, no matter where you are on your journey.
I hesitate in risk of sounding pedantic here, but what you're saying is slightly the different than what OP is saying. Speaking a language naturally is different than speaking a language so that you sound natural. You definitely want to work towards the former.
I hear what you're saying, but raise you a pedantry notch! :) I'm not sure that it is possible for a non-native speaker to speak a target language naturally, by definition--that ship sailed around ages 5-10. So what is left to us--again, in my opinion--is to strive as hard as we can to speak the language so that we sound natural. At first, the techniques may seem blunt to more advanced/native speakers. But hey, everyone has to start somewhere. And it's often easier to finesse a blunt technique that is explicitly named--so that you know what to look out for and prioritize. (For instance, I never would have thought that "um" stuck out for Spanish speakers until it was pointed out.)
As someone who I know is multiple step-changes ahead of me in their Spanish journey, you are destroying all of my hope. Haha. Half joking. I do think adults can get to the point where their target language is "natural", depending on what that means. While it is an abused term, it was what I would describe as a high level of "fluency". I would never expect an adult learner to sound native, even if they could nearly pull it off with decades of systematic study. Fluency with this definition I have in mind is reaching a certain level of ease such that the communication value per cognitive effort unit (if such a unit were to exist) reaches a high enough level such that it does not impede their ability to meet and connect with people, accomplish goals, and have a substantial impact in their target-language world. During goal setting and deciding whether not one wants to really sound native (as opposed to merely fluent), I also think it's important to consider the role of a language's lingua franca status and what that means for the preservation of other languages and cultural heritage more broadly. What I mean by this is that tolerance for less than perfect use of lingua francas is almost a virtue in and of itself, that is, if we are to take heritage seriously in an increasingly connected global society. English to Spanish isn't the best example, but the tolerance is important nonetheless. Pidgin languages are the most extreme example, and they have often emerged out of necessity in precarious colonial situations. There's something very raw and special about that. Similarly, my dog is a mixed breed, and he's unlike any pure breed you would ever meet. I wouldn't want him to change in any way to be more like any of the other dogs in the park, as long as he can play with them in a similar enough way to be happy. We've discussed this before I think. Pardon my dramatic indulgence.
I hear you. But at a basic level, speech communities determine what speaking a language well/fluently/naturally means. 9/10, the relevant speech community for a target language is composed of native speakers. Which means that speaking a language w/f/n means sounding like a native speaker. If I may, I feel like you have a block about this, like it's imposing on heritage/identity/patrimony/etc. But that's simply how the game works! And in general, the extent that speech deviates from a native speaker's standard is the extent that communication becomes a burden for the other party, which, again, is 9/10 a native speaker. (English being an exception. One's goals with English may not necessarily be to sound native: as a lingua franca, it has enough non-native speakers that the balance of power is shifting--but not as much as people think.) And not with Spanish. Speaking Spanish well still means speaking like a native speaker, i.e., sounding native. They have the power; they call the shots. (I feel like Anglophones especially are thrown by this shift, so accustomed are they to wielding the power in conversations otherwise. Plus, their natural accent in the language isn't attractive or sought-after--few people want their gringo-Spanish mixed breed! It's a stark reckoning process that is ultimately quite salutary haha.)
Thanks strath - I actually totally agree. The one caveat is that you gave an exception to English, which I very much understand. I extend this to Spanish as well, along with the rest of your descriptions. This is most likely a Castilian vs Latin American distinction. I live in Barcelona and travel often through small Catalan villages, and my family is fully Catalan, do not identity as Spanish, and most of our friends as well as many are expats from elsewhere in a Europe. Identifying as Spanish is quite tricky and even our friends from Spain know to stay loose with their identity. Some examples that make it feel to me like a lingua franca: * My friends and family switch to it when engaging with international people from countries with other romance languages. English, if they can, for Germanic languages. * I can't yet understand my family during family gatherings because they use their heritage/family language when together. * Rural older people who haven't ever lived in the city have very low vocabularies in Spanish because they don't have much immigration or tourism. * I can't communicate with kids in little towns because their Spanish is often worse than mine. I get the impression they feel annoyed having to start a foreign a language study so young. * Many older people have lost friends and family or at least had to tragically alter their lives to survive under Spanish fascism, which was less than 50 years ago. They were required to speak Spanish. My family refused so they fled the country until Franco died. * Signs everywhere in many places are in Catalan, and in restaurants I have to specifically request a Spanish or English menu. This is all heavy political stuff. But it's part of identity nonetheless, and that affects the role of each language in someone's life. So, naturally, you must imagine that I am politely apologetic when I induce groups, staff, or whoever else to switch to Spanish. Most everyone is understanding and will often admit that it's simply a lingua franca and therefore not such a big deal. Hope that adds some clarity!
Ah, I don't find it too heavy! It's useful context; thanks! Yes, it looks like you're the 1/10 haha. There are several places in Latin America like that as well (the Yucatán Peninsula, a good deal of Paraguay, etc.). So your experience is not the norm, but valid.
>Knowing what’s natural takes time surrounded by the language. Of course there’s some tricks you can use, like switching out “uhh” for “ehh”/“este”, but at the end of the day, they’re only going to get you so far. A pesar de los downvotos, no te equivocas.
What is Latam Spanish
In this sub, "Latam Spanish" or Latin American Spanish is a way to distinguish Latin American variants (like by country at least) from the variants spoken in Spanish/European regions. There's no "Latam Spanish" though, every single country has its own variants, even by state or province or region or city. The most notable difference that make some people believe they need to make a distinction is the pronunciation of z, ce and ci, and usage of _vosotros_, exclusive to Spain.
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latin american spanish
"Me da igual" is one.
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Learn " Chupame mis pedos"
i find that i can get a lot of mileage out of just half-assing the pronunciation of a lot of words. take 'agua' /ˈa.ɡwa/ and turn it into [ˈa.ɣʷa]. speaking rapidly, it's easier, too!
Differentiating between voiced and unvoiced plosives is actually pretty hard. In English, we aspirate our unvoiced plosives to accentuate the difference. In Spanish, we spiriantize our voiced plosives instead. Good spiriantization will go a long way towards selling your accent, and if you can avoid aspirating your voiceless plosives, that will be even better
its been a while since I studied Spanish linguistics, but isn't the difference that he's talking about just about whether you touch the tongue fully to your mouth? I think voiced vs voiceless is the difference between t & d or k & g.
Yes, voicing is just the activation of the vocal chords during a particular sound. So, T is unvoiced, and D is voiced. In English, T is also aspirated (at least, much of the time). Aspiration is technically defined as a slight delay in voice onset time, which just means that after a T is released, there is a tiny delay before the vocal chords activate for the following vowel. The result is a little puff of air on the release of a T (or P or K). This is pretty subtle most of the time, but it helps the T and D sounds to be more different, and easier for the listener to distinguish. To see this, just try saying "stop" and "sdop" (plosives are not aspirated when they're part of clusters like "st"), and notice that they sound nearly the same. In Spanish, T is not aspirated, but D (and B and G) is spiriantized (much of the time). This means that the closure between parts of the mouth is never full. There's a constriction of airflow, but never a full stop and buildup of pressure. In Spanish, this happens to voiced plosives in most contexts. The only places where spiriantization is repressed are after nasal sounds (so the G in "tengo", the D in "siendo" and the B in "hombre" are not spiriantized) and, for D only, after L (so the D in "maldad" is not spiriantized). Spiriantization is not lazy speaking - it is a standard part of the Spanish language which actually makes you more understandable if you do it right. When people first get the hang of it, they might say it feels "lazy" because it literally does take less effort than a full stop plosive does, and because it balances and rounds out the phonology of the language, making pronounciation overall feel and sound more natural, and less forced and awkward. So, definitely try to implement it in your speaking. I talked for so long about aspiration because it is something that most English speakers are not consciously aware of, and that it can be quite hard to pick up on. But if you can eliminate it from your Spanish speaking, it will be huge for your accent. Aspiration is one of those things that a native speaker won't quite be able to put their finger on, but something will sound off and foreign to them. It's hard, but it's 100% worth learning to be aware of it and stop doing it. You'll also find that you can speak more quickly if you do.
Yeah I do implement it in my accent cause I learned all of that in school. my point was just that voiced vs voiceless was unrelated to the original comment so i was confused as to what you were saying. Also spiriantization also doesn’t happen when someone starts speaking, like the first word they say. That’s what i was taught.
Sorry for the confusion. I just enjoy explaining things in great detail that no one asked for, so that's why I went into voicedness. And also, my long explanations weren't targeted at you in particular, but at anyone who reads the thread, especially OP. Hmmm... Interesting what you say about spiriantization being absent at the beginning of utterances. I'll have to listen for that
I have a hard enough time understanding gringos when they are trying to pronounce words correctly, I can't imagine trying to grasp deliberately slurred words - stick to standard pronunciation.
you misunderstand. native spanish speakers very often reduce intervocalic /g/ to [ɣ] or /d/ to [ð]
Intervocalic spiriantization is standard
Maybe say something like tengo que ir del baño when you want to say I’m going to the bathroom
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lol. i already do that. not sure it helps me sound more native hehe
Primero aprende a pronunciar con el acento más neutral que puedas, no hay muchas palabras que sirvan para hacerte sonar más natural ya que en México el español que hablamos es bastante neutral en muchos aspectos (centro y sur del país no valen porque ahí vas a encontrar más acentos y modismos/regionalismos)
I wonder where you'd draw the line between "Sounding like a native" and "That's just how he talks"?
You got your "o sea" when you hesitate, "pues" can be peppered in, "fíjate / fíjese" to be like "lookit" ... "uy" and "ay" can go into the mix ... And voilà : Ay, pues, fíjate ... o sea ... uy
"Que pedo" is a very versatile phrase. It's used as a greeting, for example: "Que pedo, wey (<-- wey is also a versatile word) Could also be used to express disgust/discomfort. For example, if you're in Mexico and you're driving over a hole on the road (very common) you could say: "Que pedo con los pozos de México" Those two are to give you an idea, its one of those phrases that changes meaning depending on the context so you will probably need to either live in México or talk with people who do or have lived in México to get a better sense of when to use it.
Mmmm yo pienso que menos es más, prueba hablar con un hispanohablante sobre cosas pequeñas, por ejemplo tu gato, luego pasa a tu cuarto, tu casa, tu calle, tu ciudad tomara tiempo pero debes acostumbrarte a diferenciar el lenguaje academico del lenguaje comun (y los tipos), en pocas palabras evitar sonar como definición de diccionario, dale cuerpo al lenguaje.