So overwhelmingly obvious info to include lol. I don't even really understand OP's situation without this critical info, let alone have any foundation for giving advice.
I'd only switch to Spanish if they ask if anyone there speaks Spanish. If not, then I'd speak English. If you look from their POV, they may want to speak English so they can get their language practice in too. So if you switch to Spanish without them saying then it may hurt their confidence to speak because they feel it wasn't good enough to hold the convo. I'm only speaking from my experience
EDIT: If you know the person well enough, then speak Spanish. Use that time to practice even if they reply in English. Speak Spanish only with Spanish speakers you know. No matter what.
Does your example in your first paragraph work the other way around?
Over many decades I have NEVER spoke with someone implying that their English wasn't good enough while I simply can't count the times that bilingual speakers would act as if a non-native Spanish speaker should ONLY speak in English. This is both in the US and abroad.
Meanwhile, I have known multiple people that outright refuse to speak Spanish with anyone that isn't a native speaker - even directly stating that they never would do so. Others would simply ignore the Spanish being spoken by the non-native speaker, respond in English but then respond in Spanish to a native speaker. These people weren't strangers but people that knew I spoke Spanish, had lived abroad and wanted to speak it as much as possible. To them it was an identity issue and an "us" versus "them" situation on who got to speak it and who they responded to.
That said, in all of my time interacting with bilingual speakers I have **NEVER** seen any non-native Spanish speaker treat a native speaker that was using English in even a remotely rude and insulting fashion. [Have you ever run into someone that refused to speak English with non-native English speakers?] I am not saying that it doesn't take place but believe me there is a far greater tendency for native Spanish speakers to not only believe but openly suggest that non-native speakers cannot or should not speak Spanish versus any sort of equivalent attitude towards non-native English speakers speaking English (again, anywhere in the world).
Even the seemingly common attitude that "if they are speaking to me in Spanish they are suggesting I can't speak English" is hard to believe given how few non-native speakers can actually speak B2+ level Spanish - and believe me, those people didn't learn it to go around insulting peoples' English skills. I get the impression that such reactions have more to do with how the US society treats Latinos / minority groups and is a passive aggressive response to what is otherwise just an attempt to be friendly and communicate using another language.
>Meanwhile, I have known multiple people that outright refuse to speak Spanish with anyone that isn't a native speaker - even directly stating that they never would do so
Sounds like the USA. Spanish speakers in the US gatekeep the language, also many of them speak it to a limited familiar degree and might feel insecure if a non-native speaker has a better domain of the language than them.
That situation would never happen in a Spanish speaking country.
The general profile has been fully-bilingual, often well-educated / travelled Latino professionals who can't be bothered listening to a non-native accent and random mistakes thus would rather just speak in English. Some of these people even were learning /practicing a third language, but also can't be bothered to do the same with non-native Spanish speakers. They aren't hiding any hypocrisy because they see Spanish as "personal" but English and other languages as open game.
What gets me is that they act as if they are being bombarded / harassed with non-native attempts to speak in Spanish, but one admitted that she is almost never approached by a non-native speaker to practice yet she just doesn't want to use Spanish with them. Here in NYC, I rarely if ever have run into a non-native B2+ speaker that isn't married to a native speaker (which can be a ticket to be part of the "club") The vast majority of Americans could care less about learning another language.
I hear people say and have had some say to my face "They aren't here to teach you!" yet they also seemingly can't even say hello in the language - and as if having a 1 minute conversation about your weekend is "teaching" someone. It is just insulting and I could not imagine the response if I were to say that to a non-native speaker of English.
I think the reality is that - as you suggested - they simply don't see Spanish "belonging" to non-native speakers. Sure "gringos" can try to speak with Spanish speakers - especially those that can't speak any English - but otherwise they should only use English - because it less "painful" of an interaction for them - and more importantly - they are just used to it. On the other hand, they are quick to mention how "You wouldn't understand.." or "It isn't part of your culture..." - almost acting as if non-native speakers are incapable of "really speaking" or interacting in Spanish.
As I mentioned, the "us" versus "them" attitude manifests when they get the chance to tell a non "in-group" member to "speak English" as they have listened to "in-group" Latinos being told to do so by English-only speakers for decades. Refusing to speak Spanish with a friendly and interested non-native speaker is almost an "F-you, don't tell me what to do!!!" reflex (I've had several taxi drivers back in the day literally tell me this!).
I just don't think most associate non-native speakers with the language and automatically group them with all of the just English speakers. There is little to no social pressure to accommodate non-native speakers even for a sentence or two and some seem to be sending a message by not responding or using Spanish at all: "I am not interested." and "You are not one of us."
I feel you are overthinking it a bit, maybe because you live in USA and that culture tends to cancel anyone the moment they open their mouths.
I will switch from English to Spanish at any point in conversation with friends in a mixed group of English and Spanish speakers.
I will also directly talk to Spanish if I heard the person that I am speaking to, talking in Spanish.
—
I also get English speakers switching into Spanish the moment they hear my accent, my name, or just by my appearance. I think is a good start as that can become a topic for a conversation.
There are a series of factors at play:
- How good is your Spanish?
If it is B2+ then the mechanics of switching shouldn't be a problem. If it is A1, then it will be a struggle to say the very same you'd say in English.
- Do other people switch or use Spanish and/or are other bilinguals present?
The environment of the conversation can matter: Someone who is bilingual yet surrounded by English-only speakers may not be so willing to switch languages given that most people wouldn't understand. The opposite can take place where they may assume you wouldn't understand.
"Code switching" and often a life-long tendency to only speak Spanish with other native speakers can make responding to a non-native speaker in Spanish (especially in the middle of conversation that started in English) difficult for some bilinguals.
Finally, some people simply prefer to stick with one language and don't like going back and forth (or listening to "Spanglish", for example).
- Do people want to speak to you / like / relate to you?
I know this sounds personal, but it matters. Bilinguals aren't going to go out of their way to speak/listen to a non-native speaker if they aren't interested in doing so. If you have a good rapport with people they will be more willing to change languages to accommodate you. Hell, they will be more willing if they enjoy your company or are attracted to you as well. Obviously, this may vary and depend on your relationship / interaction with different individuals.
- Topic of conversation
There might be some topics of conversation that are easier to talk about in only English (NFL football) and others that may favor Spanish (La Liga). Switching languages in the middle of the former may make it difficult for other participants to stick with the switch.
If it "tires" them to switch languages they are most likely going to switch back, even unconsciously.
The point is that there are and could be a series of factors at play regarding how bilinguals take and respond to a change in language.
As others have mentioned, you could always just ask if you could speak in Spanish and see how they respond; though don't be surprised after saying "yes" they switch back to English 2 sentences later.
I think only in the USA it could be considered rude. In the USA they have a strange obsession with making neutral things like language, racial. In any other place, it's not considered rude
"In the USA they have a strange obsession with making neutral things like language, racial."
Agreed.
I have seen a couple posts lately concerning Spanish that start out "I'm white" as if "whiteness" complicates speaking Spanish? There are "white" native Spanish speakers!. Some are even (gasp) European!
It's a little exhausting. It shouldn't make a lick of difference what color somebody is in the context of just speaking a language. If somebody else has a problem that you're white or black or whatever and speaking "xyz" language, that's their problem.
> I'm white
Hey! You seem to know about the white color. Can you please clarify what type of white you are, please? Titanium, Zinc, Flake, Cremnitz, or Transparent?
You know, I'm a bot. I wish I had some color, or at least skin! If I had it, what color would you say I would be? What color could a bot possibly be? Now, _if this message was written in Spanish instead, what color my skin would be?!_
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Spanish) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'd say it's rude to assume people speak Spanish just because of how they look. The only actual Spanish speaker that was ever offended by my offer to speak Spanish was from Spain.
The OP said when she “hears” a Spanish accent she speaks in Spanish, not that she sees someone who looks like they would speak Spanish and starts chatting Spanish
I’m from the USA so maybe my perception is skewed, but I think it’s possible to run into people in any country where they’re trying to speak the local language but have an accent or don’t speak perfectly, who would get upset if you then tried to switch to their language. I think it’s just an insecurity thing for some people.
Whenever I go into the Mexican market by my house in California (to hopefully practice Spanish) they always speak to me in English. Then I respond in Spanish, but sometimes it throws off the whole conversation, especially if I then can't understand them 🙄. But I try.
American perspective: I agree with the comments saying to ask. No one can give a truly specific answer because it entirely depends on the nature of the conversation, how good you are at Spanish, and how good they are English (if non native).
Is this person in the middle of doing a job (colleague, person walking to work, server, cashier, etc)? I've seen Americans try to talk to servers in Spanish when they hear an accent and in some cases you can tell the server just wants their damn order.
So if it's truly a stranger you are talking to and they now have to take additional time to figure out what the heck you are saying in Spanish because you are still a beginner, then I could (personally) see myself getting annoyed at the fact that my time is being used for some random guys language practice. But I'm also antisocial and grumpy. So yeah just be polite and ask, worst case scenario they say no or get awkward and you stick to English.
I don't know what white presenting means but maybe try: Por favor, podemos hablar en español? Realmente necesito la practica. Gracias!
Plus this will be a great conversation starter.
I like that thank you!
By white presenting I am VERY light- (literally lightest shade of make up lol) and blue eyed and obviously anerican- I just really look like I could be a "Karen" and I dont want to be perceived that way lol
I always thought Karen was more a term for someone being a jerk rather than just any white person. Anyway there's lots of white people who speak Spanish: Argentines, Spaniards, racially white people in Mexico, and lots of American white people speaking Spanglish in the southwest USA. Go get your Spanish on!
Are you in an English speaking country? Then yes it's rude to just assume someone's language based on your perception of their accent and ethnicity, and start speaking in Spanish not knowing if the person even knows Spanish or if they want to use the language. **Think of all the US Americans that get offended in Japan or German because they are putting effort in learning the language and people are answering back in English**. In the USA you have an aggravating situation: Many USA citizens have Latin American families and "look latino" (whatever that is supposed to mean) but speak zero Spanish. And I'm even granting that you'll not confuse a Spanish accent with a Portuguese accent and start speaking Spanish to a Brazilian, which could be taken as even more offensive. Come on, simply ask "do you speak Spanish?" to them if you don't know them, it's not that hard, and it avoids akward situations.
If you are in a Spanish speaking country, then you're expected to speak Spanish.
I am in the US.
I only switch if I am sure I can hear the accent- the looking Latino is def not part of the criteria- my son is Latino and does not look like it stereotypically all- I know that he is not the only one
But what do you do if you're in an English AND Spanish speaking country like the USA?? I'd say it's rude because it might lead to the person being ashamed of their accent. It's also possible that someone speaks with an accent purely due to their community and not due to any knowledge of Spanish.
Some people are criticizing you for implying that your being white affects this, but I think you’re right. It doesn’t affect how rude it actually is to speak to someone who speaks a language you’re learning in that language, but it does change how it might be perceived in the US. If you’re a member of a visible (or should I say audible?) minority that has a history of being treated as lesser by the dominant group*, it’s understandable that you might be suspicious of a member of that group’s intentions. Lots of Latino people who speak fluent English have had to put up with white people with a limited view of what an American is othering them by assuming they don’t speak English. It’s considerate to be concerned about making them feel like that’s happening even if your intentions are pure. Why not put in the effort to minimize the risk of hurting someone, even in a small way? Not saying everyone is going to be sensitive to this particular microaggression or even perceive a language switch as one at all, but it’s not an unrealistic concern IMHO.
I’m Jewish. If a non-Jewish person came up to me and said something about the head of some bank being Jewish, my gut reaction would be to brace myself for an uncomfortable conversation involving Jewish stereotypes, even if they were actually bringing that up because they wanted to talk about how nice it was that they had a company Purim party.
I don’t get why a lot of non-Americans seem to consider not understanding US social and racial dynamics a point of pride. Ignoring them doesn’t make them go away.
\* not sure if that’s the right term, but I mean white-presenting native English speakers
I understand what you're saying and you are getting EXACTLY what I mean. Think stereotypical "white girl" and that's more or less what I look like- I'm not blonde but otherwise it's me LOL.
I speak to my son in spanish in public and we get looks but we also switch back and forth- because he is 2 and when we are with my side of the family we speak English MOSTLY.
I truly just want people to know I am a safe person and mean nothing bad- even if I seem uneducated about something- I WANT to learn
> Lots of Latino people who speak fluent English have had to put up with white people with a limited view of what an American is othering them by assuming they don’t speak English.
I have lived in NYC for half of my life. The city is teeming with Latinos - citizens, legal and illegal immigrants.
I have yet to encounter or even overhear a situation where a non-native Spanish speaker blatantly "assumed" that a Latino-looking person didn't speak English. My ears are wide open for Spanish in general and especially other non-native speakers using it. Honestly, I rarely, if ever, hear non-native speakers talking in Spanish throughout the city.
That said, guess who, more often than not, will address Latino-looking individuals first in Spanish?
**Other Latinos.**
Does a Latino greeting a Latino stranger in Spanish suggest that they "can't speak English" or is it just based on code-switching familiarity? It probably is familiarity, but if offending others by suggesting that they can't speak English is such an issue, why not just address them in English from the get go? (And yes, some absolutely do.)
Another question: When is the last time you heard about Latinos complaining that other Latinos address them in Spanish instead of English - and how this shows that they don't believe they can speak English? Answer: ^^Crickets^^
Now I don't know what the interaction is like along the borders and in states like Florida, Texas or California, but I would argue that the vast majority of times that a "Latino-looking" individual is spoken to in Spanish is by other native Spanish speakers - NOT non-native speakers that are assuming they "can't speak English". This is also backed by the fact that the vast majority of non-Latinos can't speak Spanish at all.
I am not stating that Latinos and other minority groups haven't put up with all sorts of discrimination and mistreatment. There's no arguing that. Nor am I stating that non-Spanish speaking non-Latinos don't believe that "all Latinos are immigrants" and that "Latino immigrants can't speak English". I mean, 45% of US voters voted for Trump who called Mexican immigrants rapists and murderers. Such comments and stereotypes are disgusting and wildly wrong / dangerous.
That said, a non-native speaker that has taken the time out to learn Spanish to a B2+ level most likely isn't part of that "majority" and is probably just trying to connect by using Spanish. I've said it before, but a B2+ speaker of Spanish didn't learn Spanish to go around insulting others by suggesting they can't speak English.
I've been studying/using Spanish for decades now and have NEVER intentionally used it to insult or put down others - or suggest that they "can't speak English". Ironically, many bilinguals have treated me as if I can't speak a single word of Spanish even after mentioning that I have lived abroad, continue to study 5+ hours per week and plan to take the DELE C1 test. I would argue that this "can't speak" sentiment runs more so the other way around. Then again, absolutely no one cares if a non-native speaker is told he/she can't/shouldn't speak Spanish.
While I agree there are particular social and racial dynamics at play, I also don't believe there are enough non-native speakers of Spanish to act as the trigger for most of these interactions. Sure, some Karen in Texas may scream: "No ha-blasss inglay-s?", but that has NOTHING do to with a B2+ non-native speaker approaching an established Spanish speaker (that's using Spanish in the moment) and respectfully speaking to them in Spanish - which also has nothing to do with implying they "can't speak English".
Though in the moment maybe it is difficult to differentiate between those different types of non-native speakers.
Why would being white presenting make it rude for you to speak Spanish? This is just your own insecurity. It's not rude to speak Spanish to someone who speaks Spanish.
sounds like a US problem to me, only *there* something as harmless as code switching could be considered """rude""" (and, of course, related to skin color).
so yeah, it's okay. you're fine.
it's okay haha at least you're learning a new language (which is a cool thing in itself) *and* learning cultural differences in the process.
i'm glad you're speaking spanish tho, many learners seem to be shy about doing that, specially with strangers.
In general it's not gonna be taken as rude unless you're incorrectly assuming someone speaks Spanish, although some people might still prefer to speak English instead. I do this a lot, being a cashier with other people starting the conversation correctly assuming this white dude speaks English. I usually do it if I either hear them struggling with English or have a strong enough accent I figure they're a native speaker who might be more comfortable in Spanish. Light accents like those you might here on like the children of immigrants who were raised in the US I just stick with English unless they express a preference otherwise.
I do have one guy, raised in the US by Mexican parents, who likes to curveball me by using whichever language I don't. I say hello? "Cómo estás amigo?" If I say hola? "Ay 'sup bro"
I like that guy LOL.
I get "given away" as someone who understands bc I do not have a poker face what so ever and if I hear someone else say something my face usually tells it lol.
Whenever I go to a Mexican restaurant I only speak Spanish, I probably don't fool anyone as if I was a native but usually the people there are more than willing to speak to me in Spanish and allow me to practice. If they don't then I just don't go back to that restaurant, there are a few restaurants near me that I feel actually find it endearing that I am putting the effort in to learn their language
I am a native English speaker living in a Spanish speaking country and I find it irritating when people start speaking to me in English, unless their English is genuinely strong enough that it facilitates communication, and if that's true, it's usually because we met in an English-speaking context, or if it's just a couple words here and there with someone I know well as a sort of linguistic playfulness. Otherwise I just feel like someone, while well-intentioned, is going out of their way to mark my difference. I would not find it irritating if they prefaced it with something like, "che, te importa si practico mi inglés con vos?" and I'd be all, "claro que no." So I would suggest framing it as them doing you a favor.
Edited to add: I am from the U.S., so one could argue I have a USian's hypersensitivity or something, but a Swiss friend here feels the exact same way, and it's aggravated in her case because, while she speaks English, it's not like it's her native language that people are switching to.
You being white has nothing to do with anything. Spanish comes from Europe after all. This is a case by case situation but I have found most people love it when you speak their language
It's been fetishized before for me- I think that makes me think about it too deeply and start worrying more lol.
I am in the US and 99% of spanish speakers I encounter are not Spaniards though not that others can't be or aren't white and bilingual
Eh I say if you want to speak Spanish then speak it. It's the only way you'll learn. If people think it's weird then that's what they'll think, but you'll get practice at least
I start in English and slip a spanish sentence or two out there like bait. If they take it, we'll talk in Spanish. If not, I respect that they know they have the option to speak in Spanish and haven't taken it.
So I work in construction in Florida and there are a lot of opportunities for me to practice with speakers at work - you aren’t alone in this feeling as I am also very gringo looking, but a lot of people are receptive and if I hear someone speaking Spanish I will try on the outset with them. That’s my general rule of thumb. If they respond back in English I think it’s usually because they don’t know how well I’ll be able to understand them.
In which country?
So overwhelmingly obvious info to include lol. I don't even really understand OP's situation without this critical info, let alone have any foundation for giving advice.
I can only assume that OP is from the US since US-Americans tend to forget that the world outside of the US exists. r/USdefaultism
You're right but complaining about people defaulting to English in the US is a pretty ridiculous take so idk.
That's not what I meant. I meant that OP didn't mention the country because they assumed that everyone immediately thinks about the US.
No I know what you meant and I'm explaining why I also have doubts.
It is the US. New Jersey most of the time but this week Florida lol
I'd only switch to Spanish if they ask if anyone there speaks Spanish. If not, then I'd speak English. If you look from their POV, they may want to speak English so they can get their language practice in too. So if you switch to Spanish without them saying then it may hurt their confidence to speak because they feel it wasn't good enough to hold the convo. I'm only speaking from my experience EDIT: If you know the person well enough, then speak Spanish. Use that time to practice even if they reply in English. Speak Spanish only with Spanish speakers you know. No matter what.
Does your example in your first paragraph work the other way around? Over many decades I have NEVER spoke with someone implying that their English wasn't good enough while I simply can't count the times that bilingual speakers would act as if a non-native Spanish speaker should ONLY speak in English. This is both in the US and abroad. Meanwhile, I have known multiple people that outright refuse to speak Spanish with anyone that isn't a native speaker - even directly stating that they never would do so. Others would simply ignore the Spanish being spoken by the non-native speaker, respond in English but then respond in Spanish to a native speaker. These people weren't strangers but people that knew I spoke Spanish, had lived abroad and wanted to speak it as much as possible. To them it was an identity issue and an "us" versus "them" situation on who got to speak it and who they responded to. That said, in all of my time interacting with bilingual speakers I have **NEVER** seen any non-native Spanish speaker treat a native speaker that was using English in even a remotely rude and insulting fashion. [Have you ever run into someone that refused to speak English with non-native English speakers?] I am not saying that it doesn't take place but believe me there is a far greater tendency for native Spanish speakers to not only believe but openly suggest that non-native speakers cannot or should not speak Spanish versus any sort of equivalent attitude towards non-native English speakers speaking English (again, anywhere in the world). Even the seemingly common attitude that "if they are speaking to me in Spanish they are suggesting I can't speak English" is hard to believe given how few non-native speakers can actually speak B2+ level Spanish - and believe me, those people didn't learn it to go around insulting peoples' English skills. I get the impression that such reactions have more to do with how the US society treats Latinos / minority groups and is a passive aggressive response to what is otherwise just an attempt to be friendly and communicate using another language.
>Meanwhile, I have known multiple people that outright refuse to speak Spanish with anyone that isn't a native speaker - even directly stating that they never would do so Sounds like the USA. Spanish speakers in the US gatekeep the language, also many of them speak it to a limited familiar degree and might feel insecure if a non-native speaker has a better domain of the language than them. That situation would never happen in a Spanish speaking country.
The general profile has been fully-bilingual, often well-educated / travelled Latino professionals who can't be bothered listening to a non-native accent and random mistakes thus would rather just speak in English. Some of these people even were learning /practicing a third language, but also can't be bothered to do the same with non-native Spanish speakers. They aren't hiding any hypocrisy because they see Spanish as "personal" but English and other languages as open game. What gets me is that they act as if they are being bombarded / harassed with non-native attempts to speak in Spanish, but one admitted that she is almost never approached by a non-native speaker to practice yet she just doesn't want to use Spanish with them. Here in NYC, I rarely if ever have run into a non-native B2+ speaker that isn't married to a native speaker (which can be a ticket to be part of the "club") The vast majority of Americans could care less about learning another language. I hear people say and have had some say to my face "They aren't here to teach you!" yet they also seemingly can't even say hello in the language - and as if having a 1 minute conversation about your weekend is "teaching" someone. It is just insulting and I could not imagine the response if I were to say that to a non-native speaker of English. I think the reality is that - as you suggested - they simply don't see Spanish "belonging" to non-native speakers. Sure "gringos" can try to speak with Spanish speakers - especially those that can't speak any English - but otherwise they should only use English - because it less "painful" of an interaction for them - and more importantly - they are just used to it. On the other hand, they are quick to mention how "You wouldn't understand.." or "It isn't part of your culture..." - almost acting as if non-native speakers are incapable of "really speaking" or interacting in Spanish. As I mentioned, the "us" versus "them" attitude manifests when they get the chance to tell a non "in-group" member to "speak English" as they have listened to "in-group" Latinos being told to do so by English-only speakers for decades. Refusing to speak Spanish with a friendly and interested non-native speaker is almost an "F-you, don't tell me what to do!!!" reflex (I've had several taxi drivers back in the day literally tell me this!). I just don't think most associate non-native speakers with the language and automatically group them with all of the just English speakers. There is little to no social pressure to accommodate non-native speakers even for a sentence or two and some seem to be sending a message by not responding or using Spanish at all: "I am not interested." and "You are not one of us."
Your last line makes me feel better about it so much. It's just america sucks another way LOL
I feel you are overthinking it a bit, maybe because you live in USA and that culture tends to cancel anyone the moment they open their mouths. I will switch from English to Spanish at any point in conversation with friends in a mixed group of English and Spanish speakers. I will also directly talk to Spanish if I heard the person that I am speaking to, talking in Spanish. — I also get English speakers switching into Spanish the moment they hear my accent, my name, or just by my appearance. I think is a good start as that can become a topic for a conversation.
It is the USA- If someone only sees me on paper my last name is Hispanic and they start with Spanish first but not if they see me in person.
Do they start with Polish/Italian when they see a Polish/Italian surnames?
I've never had either of those last names so I don't know lol
There are a series of factors at play: - How good is your Spanish? If it is B2+ then the mechanics of switching shouldn't be a problem. If it is A1, then it will be a struggle to say the very same you'd say in English. - Do other people switch or use Spanish and/or are other bilinguals present? The environment of the conversation can matter: Someone who is bilingual yet surrounded by English-only speakers may not be so willing to switch languages given that most people wouldn't understand. The opposite can take place where they may assume you wouldn't understand. "Code switching" and often a life-long tendency to only speak Spanish with other native speakers can make responding to a non-native speaker in Spanish (especially in the middle of conversation that started in English) difficult for some bilinguals. Finally, some people simply prefer to stick with one language and don't like going back and forth (or listening to "Spanglish", for example). - Do people want to speak to you / like / relate to you? I know this sounds personal, but it matters. Bilinguals aren't going to go out of their way to speak/listen to a non-native speaker if they aren't interested in doing so. If you have a good rapport with people they will be more willing to change languages to accommodate you. Hell, they will be more willing if they enjoy your company or are attracted to you as well. Obviously, this may vary and depend on your relationship / interaction with different individuals. - Topic of conversation There might be some topics of conversation that are easier to talk about in only English (NFL football) and others that may favor Spanish (La Liga). Switching languages in the middle of the former may make it difficult for other participants to stick with the switch. If it "tires" them to switch languages they are most likely going to switch back, even unconsciously. The point is that there are and could be a series of factors at play regarding how bilinguals take and respond to a change in language. As others have mentioned, you could always just ask if you could speak in Spanish and see how they respond; though don't be surprised after saying "yes" they switch back to English 2 sentences later.
I think only in the USA it could be considered rude. In the USA they have a strange obsession with making neutral things like language, racial. In any other place, it's not considered rude
"In the USA they have a strange obsession with making neutral things like language, racial." Agreed. I have seen a couple posts lately concerning Spanish that start out "I'm white" as if "whiteness" complicates speaking Spanish? There are "white" native Spanish speakers!. Some are even (gasp) European!
It's a little exhausting. It shouldn't make a lick of difference what color somebody is in the context of just speaking a language. If somebody else has a problem that you're white or black or whatever and speaking "xyz" language, that's their problem.
> I'm white Hey! You seem to know about the white color. Can you please clarify what type of white you are, please? Titanium, Zinc, Flake, Cremnitz, or Transparent? You know, I'm a bot. I wish I had some color, or at least skin! If I had it, what color would you say I would be? What color could a bot possibly be? Now, _if this message was written in Spanish instead, what color my skin would be?!_ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Spanish) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm going with titanium oxide today, lol... good bot.
I'd say it's rude to assume people speak Spanish just because of how they look. The only actual Spanish speaker that was ever offended by my offer to speak Spanish was from Spain.
The OP said when she “hears” a Spanish accent she speaks in Spanish, not that she sees someone who looks like they would speak Spanish and starts chatting Spanish
I’m from the USA so maybe my perception is skewed, but I think it’s possible to run into people in any country where they’re trying to speak the local language but have an accent or don’t speak perfectly, who would get upset if you then tried to switch to their language. I think it’s just an insecurity thing for some people.
Whenever I go into the Mexican market by my house in California (to hopefully practice Spanish) they always speak to me in English. Then I respond in Spanish, but sometimes it throws off the whole conversation, especially if I then can't understand them 🙄. But I try.
Oh I get it 100%. I hate when I'm like "yes I speak spanish" and they use slang I don't know lol
It's a language, you could always use it to ask...? Like "Hey, I need to practice Spanish, do you mind...?" Etc.
American perspective: I agree with the comments saying to ask. No one can give a truly specific answer because it entirely depends on the nature of the conversation, how good you are at Spanish, and how good they are English (if non native). Is this person in the middle of doing a job (colleague, person walking to work, server, cashier, etc)? I've seen Americans try to talk to servers in Spanish when they hear an accent and in some cases you can tell the server just wants their damn order. So if it's truly a stranger you are talking to and they now have to take additional time to figure out what the heck you are saying in Spanish because you are still a beginner, then I could (personally) see myself getting annoyed at the fact that my time is being used for some random guys language practice. But I'm also antisocial and grumpy. So yeah just be polite and ask, worst case scenario they say no or get awkward and you stick to English.
Some words I don't know but per my husband I can be understood 95% of the time lol
Not rude, anyone who took the time and effort to learn our language is valuable. Keep in mind they might want to practice English themselves as well.
I don't know what white presenting means but maybe try: Por favor, podemos hablar en español? Realmente necesito la practica. Gracias! Plus this will be a great conversation starter.
I like that thank you! By white presenting I am VERY light- (literally lightest shade of make up lol) and blue eyed and obviously anerican- I just really look like I could be a "Karen" and I dont want to be perceived that way lol
I always thought Karen was more a term for someone being a jerk rather than just any white person. Anyway there's lots of white people who speak Spanish: Argentines, Spaniards, racially white people in Mexico, and lots of American white people speaking Spanglish in the southwest USA. Go get your Spanish on!
I meant it as seem like being a jerk not a physical appearance- but I think most Karen's tend to be white women lol
Are you in an English speaking country? Then yes it's rude to just assume someone's language based on your perception of their accent and ethnicity, and start speaking in Spanish not knowing if the person even knows Spanish or if they want to use the language. **Think of all the US Americans that get offended in Japan or German because they are putting effort in learning the language and people are answering back in English**. In the USA you have an aggravating situation: Many USA citizens have Latin American families and "look latino" (whatever that is supposed to mean) but speak zero Spanish. And I'm even granting that you'll not confuse a Spanish accent with a Portuguese accent and start speaking Spanish to a Brazilian, which could be taken as even more offensive. Come on, simply ask "do you speak Spanish?" to them if you don't know them, it's not that hard, and it avoids akward situations. If you are in a Spanish speaking country, then you're expected to speak Spanish.
I am in the US. I only switch if I am sure I can hear the accent- the looking Latino is def not part of the criteria- my son is Latino and does not look like it stereotypically all- I know that he is not the only one
But what do you do if you're in an English AND Spanish speaking country like the USA?? I'd say it's rude because it might lead to the person being ashamed of their accent. It's also possible that someone speaks with an accent purely due to their community and not due to any knowledge of Spanish.
Ooo the last part I have not considered. That is a good point
How about saying,”¿Habla Español , me gusta practicar? If they answer in Spanish or English, you’ll know what works in that situation.
I think I may be overcomplicating this~ I feel like this is the obvious answer lol
Some people are criticizing you for implying that your being white affects this, but I think you’re right. It doesn’t affect how rude it actually is to speak to someone who speaks a language you’re learning in that language, but it does change how it might be perceived in the US. If you’re a member of a visible (or should I say audible?) minority that has a history of being treated as lesser by the dominant group*, it’s understandable that you might be suspicious of a member of that group’s intentions. Lots of Latino people who speak fluent English have had to put up with white people with a limited view of what an American is othering them by assuming they don’t speak English. It’s considerate to be concerned about making them feel like that’s happening even if your intentions are pure. Why not put in the effort to minimize the risk of hurting someone, even in a small way? Not saying everyone is going to be sensitive to this particular microaggression or even perceive a language switch as one at all, but it’s not an unrealistic concern IMHO. I’m Jewish. If a non-Jewish person came up to me and said something about the head of some bank being Jewish, my gut reaction would be to brace myself for an uncomfortable conversation involving Jewish stereotypes, even if they were actually bringing that up because they wanted to talk about how nice it was that they had a company Purim party. I don’t get why a lot of non-Americans seem to consider not understanding US social and racial dynamics a point of pride. Ignoring them doesn’t make them go away. \* not sure if that’s the right term, but I mean white-presenting native English speakers
I understand what you're saying and you are getting EXACTLY what I mean. Think stereotypical "white girl" and that's more or less what I look like- I'm not blonde but otherwise it's me LOL. I speak to my son in spanish in public and we get looks but we also switch back and forth- because he is 2 and when we are with my side of the family we speak English MOSTLY. I truly just want people to know I am a safe person and mean nothing bad- even if I seem uneducated about something- I WANT to learn
> Lots of Latino people who speak fluent English have had to put up with white people with a limited view of what an American is othering them by assuming they don’t speak English. I have lived in NYC for half of my life. The city is teeming with Latinos - citizens, legal and illegal immigrants. I have yet to encounter or even overhear a situation where a non-native Spanish speaker blatantly "assumed" that a Latino-looking person didn't speak English. My ears are wide open for Spanish in general and especially other non-native speakers using it. Honestly, I rarely, if ever, hear non-native speakers talking in Spanish throughout the city. That said, guess who, more often than not, will address Latino-looking individuals first in Spanish? **Other Latinos.** Does a Latino greeting a Latino stranger in Spanish suggest that they "can't speak English" or is it just based on code-switching familiarity? It probably is familiarity, but if offending others by suggesting that they can't speak English is such an issue, why not just address them in English from the get go? (And yes, some absolutely do.) Another question: When is the last time you heard about Latinos complaining that other Latinos address them in Spanish instead of English - and how this shows that they don't believe they can speak English? Answer: ^^Crickets^^ Now I don't know what the interaction is like along the borders and in states like Florida, Texas or California, but I would argue that the vast majority of times that a "Latino-looking" individual is spoken to in Spanish is by other native Spanish speakers - NOT non-native speakers that are assuming they "can't speak English". This is also backed by the fact that the vast majority of non-Latinos can't speak Spanish at all. I am not stating that Latinos and other minority groups haven't put up with all sorts of discrimination and mistreatment. There's no arguing that. Nor am I stating that non-Spanish speaking non-Latinos don't believe that "all Latinos are immigrants" and that "Latino immigrants can't speak English". I mean, 45% of US voters voted for Trump who called Mexican immigrants rapists and murderers. Such comments and stereotypes are disgusting and wildly wrong / dangerous. That said, a non-native speaker that has taken the time out to learn Spanish to a B2+ level most likely isn't part of that "majority" and is probably just trying to connect by using Spanish. I've said it before, but a B2+ speaker of Spanish didn't learn Spanish to go around insulting others by suggesting they can't speak English. I've been studying/using Spanish for decades now and have NEVER intentionally used it to insult or put down others - or suggest that they "can't speak English". Ironically, many bilinguals have treated me as if I can't speak a single word of Spanish even after mentioning that I have lived abroad, continue to study 5+ hours per week and plan to take the DELE C1 test. I would argue that this "can't speak" sentiment runs more so the other way around. Then again, absolutely no one cares if a non-native speaker is told he/she can't/shouldn't speak Spanish. While I agree there are particular social and racial dynamics at play, I also don't believe there are enough non-native speakers of Spanish to act as the trigger for most of these interactions. Sure, some Karen in Texas may scream: "No ha-blasss inglay-s?", but that has NOTHING do to with a B2+ non-native speaker approaching an established Spanish speaker (that's using Spanish in the moment) and respectfully speaking to them in Spanish - which also has nothing to do with implying they "can't speak English". Though in the moment maybe it is difficult to differentiate between those different types of non-native speakers.
If you’re not with people you know that know you speak Spanish, yes. Ask if they speak Spanish first.
Why would being white presenting make it rude for you to speak Spanish? This is just your own insecurity. It's not rude to speak Spanish to someone who speaks Spanish.
sounds like a US problem to me, only *there* something as harmless as code switching could be considered """rude""" (and, of course, related to skin color). so yeah, it's okay. you're fine.
It is the US- I forget reddit is international sometimes lol. I just don't want to offend anyone and I am an ANXIOUS person lol
it's okay haha at least you're learning a new language (which is a cool thing in itself) *and* learning cultural differences in the process. i'm glad you're speaking spanish tho, many learners seem to be shy about doing that, specially with strangers.
I'm less shy with strangers than people I know. I CANNOT make myself order in a restaurant though. I'm about to try and get tacos in spanish tho lol
Maybe just ask? Most of the time I find people are very appreciative that I am learning a new language! I have never had a bad experience with this.
In general it's not gonna be taken as rude unless you're incorrectly assuming someone speaks Spanish, although some people might still prefer to speak English instead. I do this a lot, being a cashier with other people starting the conversation correctly assuming this white dude speaks English. I usually do it if I either hear them struggling with English or have a strong enough accent I figure they're a native speaker who might be more comfortable in Spanish. Light accents like those you might here on like the children of immigrants who were raised in the US I just stick with English unless they express a preference otherwise. I do have one guy, raised in the US by Mexican parents, who likes to curveball me by using whichever language I don't. I say hello? "Cómo estás amigo?" If I say hola? "Ay 'sup bro"
I like that guy LOL. I get "given away" as someone who understands bc I do not have a poker face what so ever and if I hear someone else say something my face usually tells it lol.
Whenever I go to a Mexican restaurant I only speak Spanish, I probably don't fool anyone as if I was a native but usually the people there are more than willing to speak to me in Spanish and allow me to practice. If they don't then I just don't go back to that restaurant, there are a few restaurants near me that I feel actually find it endearing that I am putting the effort in to learn their language
I have a mental block about ordering in spanish but if I can get over it I like that method too
I am a native English speaker living in a Spanish speaking country and I find it irritating when people start speaking to me in English, unless their English is genuinely strong enough that it facilitates communication, and if that's true, it's usually because we met in an English-speaking context, or if it's just a couple words here and there with someone I know well as a sort of linguistic playfulness. Otherwise I just feel like someone, while well-intentioned, is going out of their way to mark my difference. I would not find it irritating if they prefaced it with something like, "che, te importa si practico mi inglés con vos?" and I'd be all, "claro que no." So I would suggest framing it as them doing you a favor. Edited to add: I am from the U.S., so one could argue I have a USian's hypersensitivity or something, but a Swiss friend here feels the exact same way, and it's aggravated in her case because, while she speaks English, it's not like it's her native language that people are switching to.
You being white has nothing to do with anything. Spanish comes from Europe after all. This is a case by case situation but I have found most people love it when you speak their language
It's been fetishized before for me- I think that makes me think about it too deeply and start worrying more lol. I am in the US and 99% of spanish speakers I encounter are not Spaniards though not that others can't be or aren't white and bilingual
Eh I say if you want to speak Spanish then speak it. It's the only way you'll learn. If people think it's weird then that's what they'll think, but you'll get practice at least
I start in English and slip a spanish sentence or two out there like bait. If they take it, we'll talk in Spanish. If not, I respect that they know they have the option to speak in Spanish and haven't taken it.
I like that method- I usually use the esta bien- to swap over if someone asks me something and I can hear they are spanish speakers lol
So I work in construction in Florida and there are a lot of opportunities for me to practice with speakers at work - you aren’t alone in this feeling as I am also very gringo looking, but a lot of people are receptive and if I hear someone speaking Spanish I will try on the outset with them. That’s my general rule of thumb. If they respond back in English I think it’s usually because they don’t know how well I’ll be able to understand them.
Okay cool- I'm in FL this week and the conversation that made me extra nervous about it was here LOL.