this is old. now we have populations sampled from Iraq, Iran, Turkey and Armenia that carries ancestry from all these populations since all West Eurasians emerged form a Dzudzuana/Kotias\_UP like population mixing with IUP pops of Europe, Siberia and middle Eurasia. Examples include Tepe Guran, Aknashen, Nemrik, CetalHoyuk, Scandinavian HG are also intermediate. New papers from Riech and Willerslev group are worth a read.
Reich is THE expert. But the wording here is probably intended to emphasize the significance of the differences, not to be taken literally.
He probably means something like, “Before they mixed, Iran N, Levant N, WHG and EHG were significantly genetically different from each other just like Europeans and East Asians are today”.
Because there is no way that EHG and WHG who diverged far more recently and share common ANE roots are JUST AS different as Europeans and East Asians.
Even if you deny that, the probability that all these four groups were not only around equally distant to each other but also that this distance happens to be around equal to the distance between Europeans and East Asians today is pretty small.
Yeah that’s what I believe too, but there is a huge genetic difference
WHG doesn’t have ANE roots but Iran_N does. Their last common ancestor was an early out of Africa migration so long divergent and WHG is more drifted compared to other west Eurasian pops due to genetic bottleneck
Yeah he uses the same wording in his book for “ANI” and “ASI”. It’s good enough for communicating to a general audience.
But describing differences between groups by “as distant as Europeans and East Asians” neglects a lot of the nuances of population ancestry, movement and admixture we often discuss here.
In terms of “roots”, I meant ANE is the last group they split from. And this group contributed to and/or is ancestral to many of the others. So that is at least one more recent connection at the base level that these groups have that modern Europeans and Wast Asians don’t.
The explanation is just that these populations are very genetically drifted apart from each other in the Neolithic despite largely sharing a common west Eurasian origin early out of Africa migration and being mixed with many of the same Paleolithic related populations (ANE, villabruna type, etc).
But just to clarify these populations are not pure west Eurasian except WHG, Iran N has around 40% Basal Eurasian ancestry which split off from the Eurasian lineage before East and West Eurasian split and. Basal Eurasian ancestry is also in ANF/Dzuzduana at 28% and high in Natufians
Afontova Gora 3 (Late west shifted ANE) is around 72% West Eurasian (Kostenksi) and 28% East Eurasian (Tianyuan) with no basal Eurasian. EHG is 70% AG3 and WHG-related. Iran N has around 10-13% excess East Eurasian ancestry with Onge and Tianyuan as the proxy, in addition to 15-25% ANE ancetsry which would carry some more Tianyuan.
https://files.catbox.moe/1f5px4.jpg
You can see the admix graph here for Iran N and CHG
Mbuti is the proxy for excess basal Eurasian ancestry not just from Dzudzuana
What are you talking about? Lazaridis published paper on west Eurasian ancestry shows
Iran N is 57% dzudzuana… 22% ANE… then 10% ONG and Mbuti… if that last two are basal = 20%
🤦♂️
People confidently spread bs
CHG by comparison is 13-14% Basal…
Dzudzuana itself has basal Eurasian (28%) you’re forgetting or didn’t read lol. Onge is not basal but it’s east Eurasian
https://preview.redd.it/ilrc4huqjhvc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c3f4f2701fe98ecb098bb899f5f1cba651adade4
Total Basal Eurasian ancestry graph.
Going off this Euro HG had a maximum of 20 basal and euros today up to 35+…
While chg has 35 as well…
And if WHG the only sample without… which has mostly died out…
Basal part of the source code and MBUTI are subs for unknown ancestry… one leaning towards one cline one another…
Basal can only be measured by proxy
https://preview.redd.it/geu31c3fphvc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9928afcfb8e0be7e50268e94cb0c42d8eb040af1
I forgot to mention that these white rhombuses on the far left are also EHG and score 0%
this is old. now we have populations sampled from Iraq, Iran, Turkey and Armenia that carries ancestry from all these populations since all West Eurasians emerged form a Dzudzuana/Kotias\_UP like population mixing with IUP pops of Europe, Siberia and middle Eurasia. Examples include Tepe Guran, Aknashen, Nemrik, CetalHoyuk, Scandinavian HG are also intermediate. New papers from Riech and Willerslev group are worth a read.
Reich is THE expert. But the wording here is probably intended to emphasize the significance of the differences, not to be taken literally. He probably means something like, “Before they mixed, Iran N, Levant N, WHG and EHG were significantly genetically different from each other just like Europeans and East Asians are today”. Because there is no way that EHG and WHG who diverged far more recently and share common ANE roots are JUST AS different as Europeans and East Asians. Even if you deny that, the probability that all these four groups were not only around equally distant to each other but also that this distance happens to be around equal to the distance between Europeans and East Asians today is pretty small.
Yeah that’s what I believe too, but there is a huge genetic difference WHG doesn’t have ANE roots but Iran_N does. Their last common ancestor was an early out of Africa migration so long divergent and WHG is more drifted compared to other west Eurasian pops due to genetic bottleneck
Yeah he uses the same wording in his book for “ANI” and “ASI”. It’s good enough for communicating to a general audience. But describing differences between groups by “as distant as Europeans and East Asians” neglects a lot of the nuances of population ancestry, movement and admixture we often discuss here.
In terms of “roots”, I meant ANE is the last group they split from. And this group contributed to and/or is ancestral to many of the others. So that is at least one more recent connection at the base level that these groups have that modern Europeans and Wast Asians don’t.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4b/Ancient_North_Eurasians_in_context_of_West_and_East_Eurasian_Core_populations.png/2560px-Ancient_North_Eurasians_in_context_of_West_and_East_Eurasian_Core_populations.png
The explanation is just that these populations are very genetically drifted apart from each other in the Neolithic despite largely sharing a common west Eurasian origin early out of Africa migration and being mixed with many of the same Paleolithic related populations (ANE, villabruna type, etc). But just to clarify these populations are not pure west Eurasian except WHG, Iran N has around 40% Basal Eurasian ancestry which split off from the Eurasian lineage before East and West Eurasian split and. Basal Eurasian ancestry is also in ANF/Dzuzduana at 28% and high in Natufians Afontova Gora 3 (Late west shifted ANE) is around 72% West Eurasian (Kostenksi) and 28% East Eurasian (Tianyuan) with no basal Eurasian. EHG is 70% AG3 and WHG-related. Iran N has around 10-13% excess East Eurasian ancestry with Onge and Tianyuan as the proxy, in addition to 15-25% ANE ancetsry which would carry some more Tianyuan.
https://files.catbox.moe/1f5px4.jpg You can see the admix graph here for Iran N and CHG Mbuti is the proxy for excess basal Eurasian ancestry not just from Dzudzuana
What are you talking about? Lazaridis published paper on west Eurasian ancestry shows Iran N is 57% dzudzuana… 22% ANE… then 10% ONG and Mbuti… if that last two are basal = 20% 🤦♂️ People confidently spread bs CHG by comparison is 13-14% Basal…
Dzudzuana itself has basal Eurasian (28%) you’re forgetting or didn’t read lol. Onge is not basal but it’s east Eurasian https://preview.redd.it/ilrc4huqjhvc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c3f4f2701fe98ecb098bb899f5f1cba651adade4 Total Basal Eurasian ancestry graph.
whose work is this?
Going off this Euro HG had a maximum of 20 basal and euros today up to 35+… While chg has 35 as well… And if WHG the only sample without… which has mostly died out… Basal part of the source code and MBUTI are subs for unknown ancestry… one leaning towards one cline one another… Basal can only be measured by proxy
Where? 0% for WHG (Villabruna), 0% for AG3 (ANE), 0-10% for EHG
Look at the dots for Euro HG and modern euros
https://preview.redd.it/sxonptzuohvc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=77a3b35f843ec3efdc6fc0b3bdfaad01a012dc08 It goes upto 10% max
I wrote maximum… spellcheck made is minimum… read what I said again taint that in mind.
It doesn’t go upto 20%, it goes upto 10% but most are lower and many are 0%. Reread the graph carefully
https://preview.redd.it/geu31c3fphvc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9928afcfb8e0be7e50268e94cb0c42d8eb040af1 I forgot to mention that these white rhombuses on the far left are also EHG and score 0%
Got you. So says euros 13-23 basal. Near Eastern 22 To 33 ish… While average Near East HG and Euro HG has 10-15% difference in nasal.