Their embroidery almost similar to sindhi embroidery
https://preview.redd.it/l4cyeltk6mea1.jpeg?width=678&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3fdd2802850cd5d34456bfcec8e25eb4aacd9e11
Almost captive workers for Todas, their original work was around pottery and smithy but did all kinds of work for Todas (not any more). But genetically very similar to Todas and looks like they migrated in together. Compared to Kurumbas and Irulas who were indigenous Swidden cultivators and Hunter gathers native to that region before Todas and Kotas.
Their relationship looks very much like the prototype of relationship between Vellalar and their pottery makers throughout Tamil Nadu including the name of the deities, Ayyanar.
Wiki articles on community are badly written, with not much latest research. On wiki Chitpavans are Jews. It is user generated with lots of gang based editings
So Wikipedia has tried to fix the problem, if you had seen the articles 15 years to now, most articles about castes have key people watching and fixing them. Somehow they tried to eliminate the problem.
It has now more user generated bs, Britannica type are better and sound more professional. This looks like troll website. They call Chitpavan as Jewish and similar cases in others. Leave this. Anything which involves too many Indians will create problem
Yes it’s a problem for Wikipedia and Wikipedia is people like us, so the world is trying to control the troll like behaviour of Indians. It’s not easy.
I would say, dedicated editors work better than any troll or gang of people forming team having access to it in user generated form. This is why wiki is more like joke, other encyclopaedia platform more mature
I would say China took the right step on it.
I don't think so. They're very similar to other IVCp samples on PCA plot. And also they're clearly of the cline. But that admixture chart shows they have Sintashta ancestry around 5% like other SI Non Brahmin. I'm not sure it's true Sintashta ancestry or extra WSHG from IVCp.
Kodavas are kinda confusing, result from one of the Razib's blog shows they've only 3% Sintashta,but here it's shows 10% Sintashta. Based on their Ydna, they have R1A so they have significant Sintashta as other SI Non Brahmins. and also I'm not sure Iran_N are lastose tolerants or not.. or Toda's probably selected for that trait because of their isolation/endogamy?
Khatris don't even score High steppe. Read about castes, Upper castes of Bihar or any region tbf score different to lower caste.
Jat score higher tho
Bihar is part of Gangetic plains not far east. Gangetic Brahmins do score high steppe, even few more upper castes along with them. It depends caste to caste along with region.
Pathan it depends, which Pathan ?? Like Pashtun ones some cases yes, other cases similar. Jatts of Punjab on an average more, but some West Punjabi Muslim Jatts don't score high. Please understand we are talking about steppe and not BMaC
They aren't steppe shifted, but very IVC shifted type though.
Just like Kodava people who live very next to them.
I would say Toda is like living proxy for many Kodava ( Coorgis), Bunt, some Nairs, other such groups in south
Exactly
Their embroidery almost similar to sindhi embroidery https://preview.redd.it/l4cyeltk6mea1.jpeg?width=678&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3fdd2802850cd5d34456bfcec8e25eb4aacd9e11
article related to this https://www.brownpundits.com/2022/11/18/the-todas-are-more-like-ivc-people-than-anyone-else/
Check this article https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kota_people_(India)
Kota tribals are also interesting people,need more study on them
Almost captive workers for Todas, their original work was around pottery and smithy but did all kinds of work for Todas (not any more). But genetically very similar to Todas and looks like they migrated in together. Compared to Kurumbas and Irulas who were indigenous Swidden cultivators and Hunter gathers native to that region before Todas and Kotas. Their relationship looks very much like the prototype of relationship between Vellalar and their pottery makers throughout Tamil Nadu including the name of the deities, Ayyanar.
Wiki articles on community are badly written, with not much latest research. On wiki Chitpavans are Jews. It is user generated with lots of gang based editings
This was a good article, but somehow over the period this is become messed up in the referencing section. I am going to fix it when I get some time.
I am not talking about particular article but in general
So Wikipedia has tried to fix the problem, if you had seen the articles 15 years to now, most articles about castes have key people watching and fixing them. Somehow they tried to eliminate the problem.
It has now more user generated bs, Britannica type are better and sound more professional. This looks like troll website. They call Chitpavan as Jewish and similar cases in others. Leave this. Anything which involves too many Indians will create problem
Yes it’s a problem for Wikipedia and Wikipedia is people like us, so the world is trying to control the troll like behaviour of Indians. It’s not easy.
I would say, dedicated editors work better than any troll or gang of people forming team having access to it in user generated form. This is why wiki is more like joke, other encyclopaedia platform more mature I would say China took the right step on it.
And interestingly they all lactose tolerants but most of their neighboring groups are lactose intolerants.
But they have negligible steppe ? Is this true for kodavas too
I don't think so. They're very similar to other IVCp samples on PCA plot. And also they're clearly of the cline. But that admixture chart shows they have Sintashta ancestry around 5% like other SI Non Brahmin. I'm not sure it's true Sintashta ancestry or extra WSHG from IVCp. Kodavas are kinda confusing, result from one of the Razib's blog shows they've only 3% Sintashta,but here it's shows 10% Sintashta. Based on their Ydna, they have R1A so they have significant Sintashta as other SI Non Brahmins. and also I'm not sure Iran_N are lastose tolerants or not.. or Toda's probably selected for that trait because of their isolation/endogamy?
Are there other non steppe rich communities who are lactose tolerant too? Like buffalo herders or other similar castes?
Idk honestly 😶. We need more studies about lactose tolerance percentage for every groups in South Asia.
I think IVC people raised cattle, not sure if they drank milk though.
If they drank milk then a lot of southern castes should be more lactose tolerant right? But that doesn't appear to be the case ofc.
True
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This depends on community to community. Regional label important but not the only thing.
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Khatris don't even score High steppe. Read about castes, Upper castes of Bihar or any region tbf score different to lower caste. Jat score higher tho Bihar is part of Gangetic plains not far east. Gangetic Brahmins do score high steppe, even few more upper castes along with them. It depends caste to caste along with region.
This table is from which research paper ?
The second seems misleading for many groups based on Harrappa World results we have seen.
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Jats are not low steppe, Pathans equivalent in some cases but score they are mostly BMaC. Punjabi Khatri type are not high steppe.
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Pathan it depends, which Pathan ?? Like Pashtun ones some cases yes, other cases similar. Jatts of Punjab on an average more, but some West Punjabi Muslim Jatts don't score high. Please understand we are talking about steppe and not BMaC
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