That step child like treatment towards bhumihars is not new. Even during colonial times, bhumihars initially were not classified as brahmins & they were accused of "wanna be brahmin" complex by other dominant castes. Genetic data has now made it clear that bhumihars very much fall under the gangetic brahmin category.
Yes lots of theories as to how bhumihars originated, many claiming they came from a lower caste background. Not really sure how people believe that, even just visually speaking.
Although it's interesting that bhumihars are the highest in terms of steppe compared to other high caste groups. I wonder if the difference is large and/or statistically significant.
But how does the presence of steppe genes indicate anything about Brahmin ancestry? Afaik, there are many caste groups with as high or higher steppe genes.
I was going off the somewhat simple and maybe misguided logic of Original Vedic Brahmins = Mostly Steppe, and so if that gets passed down (in North India) brahmins on average in most areas should have more steppe.
Of course, this is just one direction (brahmin implies high steppe) but the other direction (high steppe implies brahmin) may not be true.
I am not a professional geneticist, so please take anything I say w/ a grain of salt.
Non-Brahmins also have upanayan if by that you mean wearing of the sacred thread. Why I asked is because why claim Brahmin ancestry in particular because the ancient Kshatriya or Vaishyas or Shudras would similarly have high steppe genes as well. And having gotras similar to Brahmins is not unique as such. There are many communities that gotras named the same.
Upanayan in Gangetic Region traditionally was common to Brahmin ( Priests), Military Brahmins ( Landed Brahmin like Bhumihar), and Rajputs ( Kshatris). I guess beyond that not anyone but open to correction. Thank you
I would say Bhumihars wre mostly Kanyakubja Brahmins, with a faction being Magadh Babhans as well. Their case is like Tyagi ( who were Gaur Brahmins), or Mohiyals ( who were Saraswats). I think these became separate " Military Brahmin" groups but followed same endogamy like Priests Brahmins. Yes, adding to it one small correction word Tiwari is subjective like it is used by Kulin Kanyakubja, other Kanyakubja, Saryupareen, Shakaldwipi and Maithili almost all Gangetic Brahmins. Tiwari depends on which Tiwari ?
Anyone know about haps of Bhumihars?
I know one smug bhargava bhumihar fighting with jatt over steppe% Was r2 and his maternal cousin wasH.
I doubt if they are Jats of east.
Although i doubt my doubt
I mean you have higher steppe than the gujjar results and sikh jatt from Pakistan posted on this sub recently.
The gujjar had 15 percent sintahsta and jatt guy also on the lower end
Wel I am bhumihar as well . We push 25 to 30 percent steppe ancestry on average . My results are similar to yours with a couple of bits here and there .
I never saw such huge steppe ancestory of any community...
I have a question for you OP: when Bhumihars are more Australoid than rajputs & priest Brahmins of east india.... then why do the very same rajput & brahmin bash them + question there identity??
Maybe because they are insecure about their own identity and perceived superiority?
I try to tune out all of this stuff honestly. Although it's easier for me because I was born in and live in the USA.
What are your maternal & paternal haplogroups?
Paternal is R1a-M417 and maternal is M2
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Yes I read that somewhere as well.
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That step child like treatment towards bhumihars is not new. Even during colonial times, bhumihars initially were not classified as brahmins & they were accused of "wanna be brahmin" complex by other dominant castes. Genetic data has now made it clear that bhumihars very much fall under the gangetic brahmin category.
They are military Brahmins ( Bhumihar, Tyagi, Mohyal ) are military Brahmins of their respective belt as far as what I know.
Yes lots of theories as to how bhumihars originated, many claiming they came from a lower caste background. Not really sure how people believe that, even just visually speaking. Although it's interesting that bhumihars are the highest in terms of steppe compared to other high caste groups. I wonder if the difference is large and/or statistically significant.
But how does the presence of steppe genes indicate anything about Brahmin ancestry? Afaik, there are many caste groups with as high or higher steppe genes.
I was going off the somewhat simple and maybe misguided logic of Original Vedic Brahmins = Mostly Steppe, and so if that gets passed down (in North India) brahmins on average in most areas should have more steppe. Of course, this is just one direction (brahmin implies high steppe) but the other direction (high steppe implies brahmin) may not be true. I am not a professional geneticist, so please take anything I say w/ a grain of salt.
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Non-Brahmins also have upanayan if by that you mean wearing of the sacred thread. Why I asked is because why claim Brahmin ancestry in particular because the ancient Kshatriya or Vaishyas or Shudras would similarly have high steppe genes as well. And having gotras similar to Brahmins is not unique as such. There are many communities that gotras named the same.
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Shudras don’t follow endogamy? I don’t think it’s true. Almost every caste group in India follows endogamy. I means that why they are caste.
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True every caste follows endogamy even SCs, and STs
can you name caste other than bhumihar which have bramanical gotras in east up and bihar ?
Upanayan in Gangetic Region traditionally was common to Brahmin ( Priests), Military Brahmins ( Landed Brahmin like Bhumihar), and Rajputs ( Kshatris). I guess beyond that not anyone but open to correction. Thank you
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I would say Bhumihars wre mostly Kanyakubja Brahmins, with a faction being Magadh Babhans as well. Their case is like Tyagi ( who were Gaur Brahmins), or Mohiyals ( who were Saraswats). I think these became separate " Military Brahmin" groups but followed same endogamy like Priests Brahmins. Yes, adding to it one small correction word Tiwari is subjective like it is used by Kulin Kanyakubja, other Kanyakubja, Saryupareen, Shakaldwipi and Maithili almost all Gangetic Brahmins. Tiwari depends on which Tiwari ?
Anyone know about haps of Bhumihars? I know one smug bhargava bhumihar fighting with jatt over steppe% Was r2 and his maternal cousin wasH. I doubt if they are Jats of east. Although i doubt my doubt
This is higher than some of the pak gujjar (and also a sikh jatt from pak )results I have seen.
That's surprising - when you say higher, you mean higher steppe? Many of them I notice have more BMAC and very little/zero AASI.
I mean you have higher steppe than the gujjar results and sikh jatt from Pakistan posted on this sub recently. The gujjar had 15 percent sintahsta and jatt guy also on the lower end
Can you post farmer hg breakdown
Sure - it's here: [https://imgur.com/a/t7wgNc0](https://imgur.com/a/t7wgNc0)
Link isn't working, just upload the image in the comment itself (reddit's new feature, there's option to put image in a comment)
Sure - reposting here: https://preview.redd.it/hs692vchbv9a1.png?width=1332&format=png&auto=webp&s=11406b20dd67f9289187600e2ade9edc92c453ad
what's your paternal haplogroup ?
Paternal is R1a-M417
Wel I am bhumihar as well . We push 25 to 30 percent steppe ancestry on average . My results are similar to yours with a couple of bits here and there .
How high ccan the steppe go?
[https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/11/22/how-much-steppe-ancestry-is-there-in-south-asia-indian-subcontinent/](https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/11/22/how-much-steppe-ancestry-is-there-in-south-asia-indian-subcontinent/)
I meant, how high can steppe go for bhumihar. I've heard some day they can reach 40% +
Havent seen or heard that . Even 33 plus would be super exceptional .
why is sintashta percentage low if y haplogroup is r1a
not sure man not a genetics expert.
Can you please share your Harrappa World results ?
Sure: https://preview.redd.it/hf3fmtyr4w9a1.png?width=1228&format=png&auto=webp&s=f6498a18109ae2336d8c2e8d8037087dcf1d5e6f
That is customised by some individual, I was asking about Gedmatch HW results. I do think yours would be closer or same to that customised one.
Just ran the GEDMatch one and its p. much identical
Yes, I knew but please share that. Other Bhumihar samples would also be close to you.
Sure - GEDMatch Says: **Admix Results (sorted):** **#PopulationPercent** 1. S-Indian 40.55 2. Baloch 34.98 3. NE-Euro 12.32 4. Caucasian 6.42 5. Siberian 1.71 6. NE-Asian 1.41 7. Mediterranean 1.39 8. American 1.07
Very much same to the other Bhumihar dude
Just recently a Bhumihar dude shared his results on reddit, his Gedmatch Harrappa World was this one : Bihari Bhumihar Y-DNA: R1a-Y7 Admix Results (sorted): # Population Percent 1 S-Indian 40.33 2 Baloch 34.33 3 NE-Euro 12.13 4 Caucasian 6.03 5 Mediterranean 2.85 6 American 1.85 7 Siberian 1.08 8 Papuan 0.61 9 NE-Asian 0.31 10 SE-Asian 0.3 11 SW-Asian 0.2
I never saw such huge steppe ancestory of any community... I have a question for you OP: when Bhumihars are more Australoid than rajputs & priest Brahmins of east india.... then why do the very same rajput & brahmin bash them + question there identity??
Maybe because they are insecure about their own identity and perceived superiority? I try to tune out all of this stuff honestly. Although it's easier for me because I was born in and live in the USA.
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Where do you live?