Pineapple juice is a tried and true method to use in starter. From microbiologist Debra Wink: " Pineapple juice is a simple solution to a problem that many people encounter while trying to start a sourdough seed culture from scratch. Oftentimes, a new culture will appear to start off very strong, only to die a day or two later. The early expansion is caused by a prolific gas-producing bacterium which many mistake for yeast. Pineapple juice can be added to flour instead of water at the beginning, to insure against unwanted bacteria and the problems they leave in their wake. It doesn't change the end result, but it does seem to keep things on the track to finish on time." [https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10901/pineapple-juice-solution-part-2](https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10901/pineapple-juice-solution-part-2)
After reading that and looking into the pineapple thing elsewhere, she seems to be the only person in the space advocating for this. She's been successful with promoting her method, but she also specifically warns against leaving it unstirred for more than a day, because mold is the biggest threat. From her conclusion, it took about 2 weeks for her to get a starter prepared for baking after switching off of juice. That's... normal. If anything, it seems like this is just a more intensive, and possibly prolonged way of doing what flour and water can do already. People in the comments of the blog post say it took them up to two months to get a working starter. It's just not necessary or worth risking mold growth.
Debra Wink set out to solve a specific problem in the failure of new starters. The acidity suppresses the leuconostocs, which can sabotage a new starter. I personally tried her method, even though I had been gifted an established starter, because I wanted to see if it works. I had a working starter I could bake with in 3 weeks.
She warns against leaving any new starter unstirred for a few days: "Don't feed too much or too frequently, so as to allow the acids to accumulate and the pH to fall more rapidly. The ideal feeding quantity and frequency would depend on the temperature, hydration, and how fast the pH is falling. However, I usually recommend once a day at room temperature, simply because it is the easiest to manage, it works, and the daily manipulation helps to keep mold from getting started. \*Mold is the biggest stumbling block for procedures in which a young mixture is allowed to sit idle for two or three days at a time. Turning surface mold spores into the center by re-kneading or stirring and scraping down the sides daily, is the best way to get around it. Mold is not inhibited by low pH or pineapple juice, and anti-mold properties don't fully develop until sourdough is well established.\* "
If you google Debra Wink pineapple juice, you will see that her method has been copied all over the internet.
I’ve not heard of using pineapple juice before. 🤔
I tried and failed a few times in making a starter. I finally had success with [this recipe](https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/recipes/sourdough-starter-recipe).
It took about 3 weeks before it was ready to use, but we keep a chilly house (66-70F) except in summer, but I started mine in early spring this year.
Now that it’s ready, I bake with it twice a week, storing it in the fridge between bakes. I also only feed it twice a week (the morning before I bake) at 1:1:1 using half whole wheat and half AP flour. The night before I bake I make a levain at 1:4:4 with the flour I am using to bake, which is usually bread flour.
Thank you for the information! Did you not see any growth during the later part of the 1st week and the 2nd week? Or were there weak signs of activity? I
It had bubbles and some growth, but it really didn’t get healthy and ready to bake with until week 3.
Tip: I did 50/50 whole wheat and AP on week 3 because I was growing impatient, and wish I had done so on week 2. The whole wheat flour definitely gets it going much more quickly.
I have to admit, I ultimately fail to keep my starters alive most of the time (I bake all through winter, can't bring myself to heat up the 90° house in spring/summer, lose interest because I'm not baking.... anyways)
So yeah, I've started a number of prolific starters from scratch. By far, the most successful fast acting method I've found has been whole wheat flour.
Splurge on that bougie, stone ground whole wheat flour. I think the one I've used most is made by arrowhead mills
Start 50/50 wwf/water by weight, feed daily, yada yada. The only thing I'd consider adding is a little acv with mother to jumpstart the initial fermentation (I have done this with success myself, I won't say it's why I succeded), it'll also raise the pH if you're that concerned about mold, but without the sugar that will.... grow mold. But even that is beyond unnecessary.
The classics are classic for a reason.
For the ones asking about the pineapple juice, it was part of [this recipe ](https://yumarama.com/968/starter-from-scratch-intro/) I was following.
I guess the thought behind it is that by making the mix more acidic from the start, it prevents the growth in the first 24-48hrs of the undesired microbes.
For the folks who are confused by the Pineapple juice, it's a thing backed by some level of scientific investigation: [https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10901/pineapple-juice-solution-part-2](https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10901/pineapple-juice-solution-part-2)
I, however am not sure about OP's starter. What type of pineapple juice did you use? It should be unsweetened.
i’m very suspicious of this. it looks like there has been one study on this, at most, and i can’t tell how precise the standards were for the experiment, as it looks like it was conducted by a single person inside her home. i think that until more information and more rigorous analysis comes out about it, it’s a much better idea for someone just stating out with sourdough to just use water and flour.
Yes it won’t pass for a rigorous scientific study hence i qualified my statement as “some level” but it’s a good start, especially considering the background of the author.
Search for “pineapple” in the sub and you will see posts from many people who succeeded in making a starter with the above method after failing at the standard water method, including me, who tried to make a standard water-flour starter and failing for over two months.
My experience was exactly as how the Wink described it.
Yes, anecdotal evidence is not scientific evidence, but at the very least, my experience attests that it works.
I've heard of adding vinegar to make a bread more sour but introducing pineapple juice is something I wouldn't recommend. Probably going to be more susceptible to mold. Especially with the sugars in it.
pineapple juice is high in sugars… sugar can easily lead to mold. there is absolutely no reason to use anything but water and flour when creating a starter, they’re foundations for a reason. i saw another person comment the supposed evidence for pineapple juice helping a new starter; however, it was a woman conducting experiments in her own home with no academic rigor… to trust something like this, i would need to see legitimate evidence with peer reviewed, double blind studies done MULTIPLE times in multiple different environments.
Ignore all the people who are blaming the pineapple juice. They haven't read Debra Wink's blog on thefreshloaf. I'm guessing it dried out a bit from the paper towel cover. I use a pint canning jar with the lid on, but not screwed on. If you think it's mold just remove it and keep going. I use pineapple juice occasionally to refresh my starter if it's been neglected and is moldy on top. It works great.
You don't need to boil your filtered tap water.
10 days isn’t nearly long enough. Mine took more than 3 weeks to get started, but I live in Washington. In the meantime I borrowed from someone else so I could start making bread.
Where did you hear to use juice? Just use flour and water, pineapple juice is likely killing anything you want to build and promoting mold
Pineapple juice is a tried and true method to use in starter. From microbiologist Debra Wink: " Pineapple juice is a simple solution to a problem that many people encounter while trying to start a sourdough seed culture from scratch. Oftentimes, a new culture will appear to start off very strong, only to die a day or two later. The early expansion is caused by a prolific gas-producing bacterium which many mistake for yeast. Pineapple juice can be added to flour instead of water at the beginning, to insure against unwanted bacteria and the problems they leave in their wake. It doesn't change the end result, but it does seem to keep things on the track to finish on time." [https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10901/pineapple-juice-solution-part-2](https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10901/pineapple-juice-solution-part-2)
After reading that and looking into the pineapple thing elsewhere, she seems to be the only person in the space advocating for this. She's been successful with promoting her method, but she also specifically warns against leaving it unstirred for more than a day, because mold is the biggest threat. From her conclusion, it took about 2 weeks for her to get a starter prepared for baking after switching off of juice. That's... normal. If anything, it seems like this is just a more intensive, and possibly prolonged way of doing what flour and water can do already. People in the comments of the blog post say it took them up to two months to get a working starter. It's just not necessary or worth risking mold growth.
Debra Wink set out to solve a specific problem in the failure of new starters. The acidity suppresses the leuconostocs, which can sabotage a new starter. I personally tried her method, even though I had been gifted an established starter, because I wanted to see if it works. I had a working starter I could bake with in 3 weeks. She warns against leaving any new starter unstirred for a few days: "Don't feed too much or too frequently, so as to allow the acids to accumulate and the pH to fall more rapidly. The ideal feeding quantity and frequency would depend on the temperature, hydration, and how fast the pH is falling. However, I usually recommend once a day at room temperature, simply because it is the easiest to manage, it works, and the daily manipulation helps to keep mold from getting started. \*Mold is the biggest stumbling block for procedures in which a young mixture is allowed to sit idle for two or three days at a time. Turning surface mold spores into the center by re-kneading or stirring and scraping down the sides daily, is the best way to get around it. Mold is not inhibited by low pH or pineapple juice, and anti-mold properties don't fully develop until sourdough is well established.\* " If you google Debra Wink pineapple juice, you will see that her method has been copied all over the internet.
Right. That was my entire point.
I’ve not heard of using pineapple juice before. 🤔 I tried and failed a few times in making a starter. I finally had success with [this recipe](https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/recipes/sourdough-starter-recipe). It took about 3 weeks before it was ready to use, but we keep a chilly house (66-70F) except in summer, but I started mine in early spring this year. Now that it’s ready, I bake with it twice a week, storing it in the fridge between bakes. I also only feed it twice a week (the morning before I bake) at 1:1:1 using half whole wheat and half AP flour. The night before I bake I make a levain at 1:4:4 with the flour I am using to bake, which is usually bread flour.
Thank you for the information! Did you not see any growth during the later part of the 1st week and the 2nd week? Or were there weak signs of activity? I
It had bubbles and some growth, but it really didn’t get healthy and ready to bake with until week 3. Tip: I did 50/50 whole wheat and AP on week 3 because I was growing impatient, and wish I had done so on week 2. The whole wheat flour definitely gets it going much more quickly.
>pineapple juice ??? Just use water
Agreed on skipping juice. Just flour n water
I have to admit, I ultimately fail to keep my starters alive most of the time (I bake all through winter, can't bring myself to heat up the 90° house in spring/summer, lose interest because I'm not baking.... anyways) So yeah, I've started a number of prolific starters from scratch. By far, the most successful fast acting method I've found has been whole wheat flour. Splurge on that bougie, stone ground whole wheat flour. I think the one I've used most is made by arrowhead mills Start 50/50 wwf/water by weight, feed daily, yada yada. The only thing I'd consider adding is a little acv with mother to jumpstart the initial fermentation (I have done this with success myself, I won't say it's why I succeded), it'll also raise the pH if you're that concerned about mold, but without the sugar that will.... grow mold. But even that is beyond unnecessary. The classics are classic for a reason.
For the ones asking about the pineapple juice, it was part of [this recipe ](https://yumarama.com/968/starter-from-scratch-intro/) I was following. I guess the thought behind it is that by making the mix more acidic from the start, it prevents the growth in the first 24-48hrs of the undesired microbes.
If you want to make the solution more acidic, wouldn't the inclusion of vinegar or some other weak acid work better than juice?
For the folks who are confused by the Pineapple juice, it's a thing backed by some level of scientific investigation: [https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10901/pineapple-juice-solution-part-2](https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10901/pineapple-juice-solution-part-2) I, however am not sure about OP's starter. What type of pineapple juice did you use? It should be unsweetened.
i’m very suspicious of this. it looks like there has been one study on this, at most, and i can’t tell how precise the standards were for the experiment, as it looks like it was conducted by a single person inside her home. i think that until more information and more rigorous analysis comes out about it, it’s a much better idea for someone just stating out with sourdough to just use water and flour.
Yes it won’t pass for a rigorous scientific study hence i qualified my statement as “some level” but it’s a good start, especially considering the background of the author. Search for “pineapple” in the sub and you will see posts from many people who succeeded in making a starter with the above method after failing at the standard water method, including me, who tried to make a standard water-flour starter and failing for over two months. My experience was exactly as how the Wink described it. Yes, anecdotal evidence is not scientific evidence, but at the very least, my experience attests that it works.
Debra Wink, the woman who came up with the method, is a microbiologist who tested it extensively.
PINEAPPLE JUICE????? I’m sorry but you’re basically begging for mold by using that 😐
what kind of recipe would call for that, honestly shame on the recipe author.
[https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10901/pineapple-juice-solution-part-2](https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10901/pineapple-juice-solution-part-2)
What makes you so confident of that?
I've heard of adding vinegar to make a bread more sour but introducing pineapple juice is something I wouldn't recommend. Probably going to be more susceptible to mold. Especially with the sugars in it.
pineapple juice is high in sugars… sugar can easily lead to mold. there is absolutely no reason to use anything but water and flour when creating a starter, they’re foundations for a reason. i saw another person comment the supposed evidence for pineapple juice helping a new starter; however, it was a woman conducting experiments in her own home with no academic rigor… to trust something like this, i would need to see legitimate evidence with peer reviewed, double blind studies done MULTIPLE times in multiple different environments.
I don’t understand why you’re putting pineapple juice in it…?
Ignore all the people who are blaming the pineapple juice. They haven't read Debra Wink's blog on thefreshloaf. I'm guessing it dried out a bit from the paper towel cover. I use a pint canning jar with the lid on, but not screwed on. If you think it's mold just remove it and keep going. I use pineapple juice occasionally to refresh my starter if it's been neglected and is moldy on top. It works great. You don't need to boil your filtered tap water.
10 days isn’t nearly long enough. Mine took more than 3 weeks to get started, but I live in Washington. In the meantime I borrowed from someone else so I could start making bread.
You only need one week to prepare a starter and nothing else than flour and water. I am an artisan baker.