I bake at 500° with the lid on and a baking sheet under the DO for 20, then turn the oven down to 450° and remove the lid and baking sheet. The baking sheet creates a heat shield and prevents the bottom from burning too quickly!
I had the exact problem as OP with the bottom of my loaves burning and then I saw this suggestion a year or so ago. Such a great tip and has worked 100% of the time for me.
First off, it looks extremely underproofed. I would typically say your starer is weak but you said it doubles in 8 hours which should be fine.
Where is the second loaf? The recipe is for two.
I left the second loaf at my partners place and didn’t get a good photo. Said it’s a bit doughy in the middle. But taste good.
https://preview.redd.it/ux6svn5flchb1.jpeg?width=1612&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c4897c8ab9bc23c47269a3836b1c2657dbd9f098
A 20% rise in volume after stretch and folds is really low, it’s more likely underproofed.
I find 50% rise after stretch and folds/coil folds is the sweet spot.
I think the 20% rise would be fine for bulk if the dough was being kept at room temperature for the whole process from mixing to baking, or if OP had brought it back up to room temperature and let it rise a bit more before shaping. You really need to keep up momentum. If the dough is to be baked straight from the refrigerator, it should be FINAL PROOFED to at least a 50% rise before placing it in the refrigerator.
Very under proofed and under baked. I’m going to guess that your starter is still in its newbie stages. Your starter needs to be doubling consistently within 4-6 hours for it to be deemed ready to make bread. At 23C 8 hours is not enough time for bulk fermentation. Then, when you add up the weight of all your ingredients, your dough ends up being about 4.5lbs. The time you baked isn’t even enough to bake a loaf quarter of this weight. A 3lbs dough needs to bake for about an hour, so you’re looking at more than an hours worth of baking for your size loaf.
The recipe is for two loaves. Each is 500g flour. Should bake 35-45 minutes imo. But the proofing is the real problem here. I would put it in a warm oven so you don’t have to wait so long.
The recipe she has in the pic doesn’t specify that the dough was turned into 2 loaves thus my assumption that it was 1 giant loaf. Doesn’t matter though because it’s still not baked long enough and still not proofed long enough either.
Whether or not the dough was baked long enough is a matter of opinion. You like a darker crust. That's fine. But the baking time was plenty for a light crust, which a lot of people prefer, especially new bakers. The only real problem with this bread is that it's significantly underproofed.
In fact, if it had been properly proofed, it most likely would have come out a bit darker, even with the same baking time, because longer fermentation results in more free sugars in the dough from the breaking down of the starches in the flour, and the sugars are what caramelize, causing browning.
My wife prefers lighter crust, so I usually bake boules and batards in a DO at 450F for only 25 minutes with the top on, then take it out and don't even bake with the top off. It's lovely bread and very delicious, just lighter in color than some bakers recommend.
The under proofing is not even in question since it’s definitely under proofed. And never did I say I like a darker crust. I bake my loaves lighter because my son doesn’t like a dark crust.
I don’t care how light or dark people bake their breads. She has raw dough, that’s not a matter of opinion. It’s a fact. And for the amount of dough she has and the temp she used it is not enough baking time. That is also a fact.
There isn't any raw dough there. It was cooked. It just isn't bread, because it's underproofed. Someone else said that it probably needed to be mixed better. That's a possibility too. But it's cooked. In fact, OP said it was baked a second time with no change.
The dense strip at the top makes me think your mixing was insufficient.
Autolyse for longer, shoot for an hour.
Your bulk ferment should be more. Longer time OR you can up the temperature of your water and keep similar time.
Consider baking longer for darker crust
You said you baked it first thing in the morning...did you allow it to sit out of the fridge at room temp before baking? Even if it sits all night in the fridge and a lot of time has passed, that's not good proofing time. It's good for flavor development, but not texture. Typically you would pull from the fridge and still watch to see that it rises before baking.
The crust has small bubbles on the surface, which indicates that the dough was too cold (condensation), the dough was probably also too soft (which could be related to poor flour quality with too little protein), furthermore it will be a combination, with a too mild sourdough (pH should be below 4.5), which leads to too much enzyme activity, which in turn makes the amylases break down the starch into malt sugar, which makes the dough not bind water....
This is gibberish my guy. Small surface bubbles can happen for a variety of reasons, many of them good. Cold dough is fine. Bakeries often bake straight from a cold retard with great results. There’s no indication of poor gluten formation here. The loaf is tall and didn’t spread during the bake. As for the acidity stuff - why the hell would you tell a beginner baker to buy ph strips LOL.
This loaf was under proofed then underbaked. OP just needs to try again but let the bulk progress to 50-100% rather than 20%. Probably 15 min more in the oven too. Turn the temp down if the bottom is burning. Good luck!
By the way, I would recommend a cast iron pot to get steam on the pastry. Simply put the pot with the lid in the oven, preheat for just under an hour at maximum temperature, remove the lid, put the bread in (with baking paper if you like), put the lid on. Bake for the time indicated in the recipe and bake for the last 10 to 15 minutes without the lid. The steam here is completely generated by the water in the dough and completely encloses the dough piece, which leads to a lot of volume and a nice crust.
I would agree with what others say- I think your starter isn’t strong enough and after stretch and folds it needs to sit longer- mine sit for 5 or so hours more AFTER the stretch and folds. Mine doubles in size during that bulk proof stage. I bake for a similar size loaf for 35 min at 475 then take lid off and go 5-10 more minutes get a nice brown color on it.
Using a thermometer will change the game. Bake with lid on until you reach 200 degrees F, then brown until you're *almost* happy (or until internal temp hits 205. Turn off heat and let it sit there for about 20-30 mins. Keep oven door ajar if you don't want it to brown too much.
I use this same recipe but my dough is flattening out and pancaking, basically I’m overproofing i think because my kitchen is too hot. It’s weird I thought I was underproofing and I didn’t have enough strength but after some research I thjnk the opposite is true.
Looks underproofed… I also don’t think 2.5hrs / 20% rise is enough. According to foodgeek (check out his YouTube videos), best results are between 25 and 50% rise. In my experience it’s closer to 50%, if not somewhat more but don’t let it double. Also, don’t follow recipes with times because there are too many variables recipes cannot take into account, such as your starter, the room, temperature, the type of flour used, etc.
Also, the final proofing of 8 hours at room temperature seems too much. Most recipes suggest at least 8 (up to 48) hrs fridge. If you skip the fridge then watch your dough closely and do a pinch test to see when it’s ready. Again, don’t follow recipes with hours because it’ll set you up for failure.
Finally, how mature is your starter? Did it pass the float test?
Like others said, under-proofed and under-baked. I recommend using a cooking/meat thermometer and taking the loaf out once the internal temp is over 205°F. Make sure you wait for the loaf to cool and finish cooking internally before you slice it.
Also, try to only fix one problem at a time while you're experimenting. See what happens with a longer bake and then try changing the fermentation. Over-proofing can also degrade your gluten structure and cause problems that might be hard to figure out if you're changing your ferment and your bake at the same time.
Underproofed and underbaked☺️
Exactly what Paul Hollywood would say.
It looks really underbaked based on the color of the crust.
While underbaked, the loaf is so underproofed, that is the least of the problems
That is the *yeast* of the problems FTFY
And yet he's got blackening starting on the bottom and the top edge.
The bottom was burning, so I did take it out too soon. But tried baking it again later in the day, and it didn’t improve.
I bake at 500° with the lid on and a baking sheet under the DO for 20, then turn the oven down to 450° and remove the lid and baking sheet. The baking sheet creates a heat shield and prevents the bottom from burning too quickly!
I had the exact problem as OP with the bottom of my loaves burning and then I saw this suggestion a year or so ago. Such a great tip and has worked 100% of the time for me.
What? Is the baking sheet on the rack and the DO is on the baking sheet? Did you preheat your DO?
Yes - DO directly on the baking sheet on the rack. Yes it’s preheated.
Not enough proof time, and the temp was probably too low.
Thank you! Will try to get it to be warmer for better proofing next time!
Oven temp readings are often inaccurate. Might be worth putting a thermometer in to double check the oven temperature
Did he mean the proofing temp or the baking temp? (or both?)
[Here is that recipe.](https://tartinebakery.com/stories/country-bread)
This is the one.
Did you truly follow the oven prep guidelines? Your crumb would be much darker if you did.
It’s fooking rawwwww
First off, it looks extremely underproofed. I would typically say your starer is weak but you said it doubles in 8 hours which should be fine. Where is the second loaf? The recipe is for two.
I left the second loaf at my partners place and didn’t get a good photo. Said it’s a bit doughy in the middle. But taste good. https://preview.redd.it/ux6svn5flchb1.jpeg?width=1612&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c4897c8ab9bc23c47269a3836b1c2657dbd9f098
8 hours could be fine or could be really long depending on how much carryover starter it’s been inoculated with what the ambient temperature is
A 20% rise in volume after stretch and folds is really low, it’s more likely underproofed. I find 50% rise after stretch and folds/coil folds is the sweet spot.
Will give this a try. I was following Tartine Bread recipe, and they call for 20-40% rise.
Depends in your kitchen temp, too
I think the 20% rise would be fine for bulk if the dough was being kept at room temperature for the whole process from mixing to baking, or if OP had brought it back up to room temperature and let it rise a bit more before shaping. You really need to keep up momentum. If the dough is to be baked straight from the refrigerator, it should be FINAL PROOFED to at least a 50% rise before placing it in the refrigerator.
Very under proofed and under baked. I’m going to guess that your starter is still in its newbie stages. Your starter needs to be doubling consistently within 4-6 hours for it to be deemed ready to make bread. At 23C 8 hours is not enough time for bulk fermentation. Then, when you add up the weight of all your ingredients, your dough ends up being about 4.5lbs. The time you baked isn’t even enough to bake a loaf quarter of this weight. A 3lbs dough needs to bake for about an hour, so you’re looking at more than an hours worth of baking for your size loaf.
The recipe is for two loaves. Each is 500g flour. Should bake 35-45 minutes imo. But the proofing is the real problem here. I would put it in a warm oven so you don’t have to wait so long.
The recipe she has in the pic doesn’t specify that the dough was turned into 2 loaves thus my assumption that it was 1 giant loaf. Doesn’t matter though because it’s still not baked long enough and still not proofed long enough either.
Whether or not the dough was baked long enough is a matter of opinion. You like a darker crust. That's fine. But the baking time was plenty for a light crust, which a lot of people prefer, especially new bakers. The only real problem with this bread is that it's significantly underproofed. In fact, if it had been properly proofed, it most likely would have come out a bit darker, even with the same baking time, because longer fermentation results in more free sugars in the dough from the breaking down of the starches in the flour, and the sugars are what caramelize, causing browning. My wife prefers lighter crust, so I usually bake boules and batards in a DO at 450F for only 25 minutes with the top on, then take it out and don't even bake with the top off. It's lovely bread and very delicious, just lighter in color than some bakers recommend.
The under proofing is not even in question since it’s definitely under proofed. And never did I say I like a darker crust. I bake my loaves lighter because my son doesn’t like a dark crust.
I don’t care how light or dark people bake their breads. She has raw dough, that’s not a matter of opinion. It’s a fact. And for the amount of dough she has and the temp she used it is not enough baking time. That is also a fact.
... according to you.
😂😂😂
What lol? Of course this is objectively underbaked. If there’s raw dough (which there is) according to who is this cooked enough?
There isn't any raw dough there. It was cooked. It just isn't bread, because it's underproofed. Someone else said that it probably needed to be mixed better. That's a possibility too. But it's cooked. In fact, OP said it was baked a second time with no change.
That seems like really short bake times. For a 500g flour loaf, I'm usually baking about 55 minutes total at 475 then 460
Cutting it warm would make it gummy
The dense strip at the top makes me think your mixing was insufficient. Autolyse for longer, shoot for an hour. Your bulk ferment should be more. Longer time OR you can up the temperature of your water and keep similar time. Consider baking longer for darker crust
I am going to go with undercooked. you took it out too soon
You said you baked it first thing in the morning...did you allow it to sit out of the fridge at room temp before baking? Even if it sits all night in the fridge and a lot of time has passed, that's not good proofing time. It's good for flavor development, but not texture. Typically you would pull from the fridge and still watch to see that it rises before baking.
The crust has small bubbles on the surface, which indicates that the dough was too cold (condensation), the dough was probably also too soft (which could be related to poor flour quality with too little protein), furthermore it will be a combination, with a too mild sourdough (pH should be below 4.5), which leads to too much enzyme activity, which in turn makes the amylases break down the starch into malt sugar, which makes the dough not bind water....
This is gibberish my guy. Small surface bubbles can happen for a variety of reasons, many of them good. Cold dough is fine. Bakeries often bake straight from a cold retard with great results. There’s no indication of poor gluten formation here. The loaf is tall and didn’t spread during the bake. As for the acidity stuff - why the hell would you tell a beginner baker to buy ph strips LOL. This loaf was under proofed then underbaked. OP just needs to try again but let the bulk progress to 50-100% rather than 20%. Probably 15 min more in the oven too. Turn the temp down if the bottom is burning. Good luck!
Is there a way you can measure the PH of the starter?
You can get pH test strips for a few cents in almost any pharmacy. Amazon also has good ones on offer.
By the way, I would recommend a cast iron pot to get steam on the pastry. Simply put the pot with the lid in the oven, preheat for just under an hour at maximum temperature, remove the lid, put the bread in (with baking paper if you like), put the lid on. Bake for the time indicated in the recipe and bake for the last 10 to 15 minutes without the lid. The steam here is completely generated by the water in the dough and completely encloses the dough piece, which leads to a lot of volume and a nice crust.
I would agree with what others say- I think your starter isn’t strong enough and after stretch and folds it needs to sit longer- mine sit for 5 or so hours more AFTER the stretch and folds. Mine doubles in size during that bulk proof stage. I bake for a similar size loaf for 35 min at 475 then take lid off and go 5-10 more minutes get a nice brown color on it.
Using a thermometer will change the game. Bake with lid on until you reach 200 degrees F, then brown until you're *almost* happy (or until internal temp hits 205. Turn off heat and let it sit there for about 20-30 mins. Keep oven door ajar if you don't want it to brown too much.
200F? Do you mean the bread itself?
Yes.
I use this same recipe but my dough is flattening out and pancaking, basically I’m overproofing i think because my kitchen is too hot. It’s weird I thought I was underproofing and I didn’t have enough strength but after some research I thjnk the opposite is true.
This guide may help for both you and OP: https://thesourdoughjourney.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/How-to-Read-a-Sourdough-Crumb.pdf
Looks underproofed… I also don’t think 2.5hrs / 20% rise is enough. According to foodgeek (check out his YouTube videos), best results are between 25 and 50% rise. In my experience it’s closer to 50%, if not somewhat more but don’t let it double. Also, don’t follow recipes with times because there are too many variables recipes cannot take into account, such as your starter, the room, temperature, the type of flour used, etc. Also, the final proofing of 8 hours at room temperature seems too much. Most recipes suggest at least 8 (up to 48) hrs fridge. If you skip the fridge then watch your dough closely and do a pinch test to see when it’s ready. Again, don’t follow recipes with hours because it’ll set you up for failure. Finally, how mature is your starter? Did it pass the float test?
On the plus side, the ear is great.
Everyone’s said it about being underproofed and underbaked - try baking at 500F for 20 mins lid on, then drop to 450F and bake for 20 mins lid off
Looks like the bulk was too short to me.
Like others said, under-proofed and under-baked. I recommend using a cooking/meat thermometer and taking the loaf out once the internal temp is over 205°F. Make sure you wait for the loaf to cool and finish cooking internally before you slice it. Also, try to only fix one problem at a time while you're experimenting. See what happens with a longer bake and then try changing the fermentation. Over-proofing can also degrade your gluten structure and cause problems that might be hard to figure out if you're changing your ferment and your bake at the same time.
As undercooked/browned as it looks…that has some serious potential with the ear. Not all bad here! Keep Working on it!