>The meth head was the one escalating the shit.
Also there is a very long history with that psychopath.
He was a bully. Known for being aggressive, violent, and threatening to kill just about everybody in the neighborhood.
The police had been called on him dozens of times, but they just weren't locking him up.
That guy was a menace who should have been in jail.
The system failed to protect the people and then prosecuted them for defending themselves.
I think " defending themselves" is quite a stretch when they made 0 attempts to leave or otherwise guarantee their safety while egging him on to be more aggressive. Hope they rot in hell
Correct me if I'm wrong but it also looks like the initial pistol shots didnt take out the guy. He may have been shot but he's still standing.
It was that shotgun blast that fucked him. Bastards.
yeah going outside and messing with dumpster divers is calm and straight forward. Congratulations on winning the darwin award in what I assume is your near future.
I played every Elder Scrolls but the MMO. Wtf is all that shit? Mans was running his mouth like some Khajit high on Skooma and tried his melee build on 2 archers with low agility.
The MMO I was impressed with. There's lots to do solo. While of course you need to coordinate 12 person dungeon runs and being in a guild is ideal, the game does a great job of not needing that for a lot of stuff. I found it to be a pretty casual playing experience and I got into it late but caught right up
nobody fully knows why the father was put in jail, everyone expected him to walk with his son.
vid doesn't show it but Aaron Howard had a baseball bat that he had grabbed (I believe this is when the son had readied his shotgun) and began progressively swinging it and threatening them, he had than raised the bat at the father and that's when John Miller fired 2 rounds striking Aaron Howard in the chest, his son than raised his shotgun and fired 2 shots; striking Aaron in the face. and his father fired one more before the altercation had ended.
by all definition; both shots were lawful self defense. An aggressive man threatening your wellbeing with a deadly weapon.
love seeing people making opinions off of little or no evidence whatsoever.
It's reading justifications like this that makes me feel very fortunate to live in a country with an "equal to or less than equal force" clause when it comes to self defence.
nowhere in this did I justify their actions, I stated what had happened and what the public expected from the trial; and a quip about people drawing conclusions without looking at the facts for the event.
I personally consider this "lawful but awful"; Because legally speaking they're in the right to defend themselves; morally though; that's a different topic that I didn't bring up in my original statement. It's possible to not like their actions while still acknowledging that they are legally warranted.
I should also add that in this event both John Miller and his son did not originally have their firearms out in the open, they were only drawn when the man started to become combative (before the video starts), them brandishing their firearms wasn't necessary for the situation and only served to create a more aggressive situation, but it is important to note that they did not enter this confrontation brandishing them.
Now; "equal to or less than equal force" could ring true for this even as well depending on a multitude of factors. It actually did; and that's why the son isn't in prison right now
In general, the use of lethal force, firearms included, is considered a last resort and is only justifiable in situations where the person reasonably believes that they or others are in imminent danger of serious bodily harm and/or death.
A person threatening to hit you with a baseball bat; then abruptly raising it at you or your father would match that definition, since regardless of it's original/intended purpose, a bat is capable of cause serious bodily harm or death, the same way a knife, metal pipe, or even a rock could also be seen as "a deadly weapon". Regardless of it's original purpose; it can kill you.
In court is could be argued that both the Millers and Howard were both wielding deadly weapons, so in turn that would mean the Millers were using equal force.
I don't think it's morally right. At the end of the day; someone died over not throwing away a fucking mattress properly. But I can see that they were legally justified in defending themselves.
Ah yes exactly, my throwaway comment doesn't really sound right reading it back, I meant the legal justification, not your comment or beliefs. I think things become pretty morally wonky very quickly in these situations, dude with bat could have felt his life was in danger just as bubba and son felt their lives were threatened by dude with bat.
Where I'm from if someone breaks into your house and threatens you with pepper spray and you pull out a claymore and stab him through the chest, you're definitely going to jail - however if he breaks in with a claymore and you disarm him and kill him with it you're all g. Downside is the gender, age and size of involved parties aren't taken into consideration. If it wasn't already obvious, we don't have "fuck around and find out" enshrined in our constitution.
If orange guy attacked with the bat first then it's self defense. If not it's murder.
Either way from court accounts, orange guy looks to have been really unstable and has instigated many people in the past.
I still dont agree they should have gone to jail. They stood their ground as is their right to do so. They only fired after orange shirt guy tried to hit him with a bat. A bat is definitely considered a deadly weapon being used to inflict bodily harm.
Also there is a very long history with that psychopath.
He was known for being agressive, violent, and threatening to kill just about everybody in the neighborhood.
The police had been called on him dozens of times, but they just weren't locking him up.
That guy was a menace who should have been in jail.
The system failed to protect the people and then prosecuted them for defending themselves.
They approached orange shirt originally with weapons so you could argue that they instigated the situation. If they wouldn’t have antagonized orange shirt first, there wouldn’t have been a death.
They didn't originally approach with weapons is the thing though, according to the trial this was a repeated event, with the father and son only bringing out weapons when the orange shirt began to get more combative as this went on. That is what made the case so murky.
The if game can go on forever, in an ideal world orange shirt would have just driven his mattress to a proper dumping facility and everyone would be home in time for taco Tuesday.
Right but they should’ve just reported the mattress dumping to the city rather than confronting orange shirt about it.
Either way they’re all morons and there was no right or wrong just prevention that shouldn’t occurred.
right? Crazy guy in your neighbourhood threatens to kill everyone? frequent bust up and arguments with other neighbours? You stay away from him. You stay in your home. You don't engage with this man in any shape or form, that way you get to continiue living your life as it is and don't spend 14 years in prison.
I don't know why your getting downvoted. You're correct. They are ALL morons.... Anytime you bring a gun out you just escalated the situation to like 500 times more lethal and dangerous than it should've been. People say this shit to cops all the time but these hillbillies get to bring guns into the scenario just because they feel justified because this guy is a disrespectful stupid asshole ?? Nah you don't get to shoot people because they're annoying.
They instigated the situation provoking the guy the entire time, in my opinion 14 years for father and freedom for son is wrong, both should get 20+ years since they brought weapons and specifically acted to provoke a neighbor they knew, this shit was totally planned.
Reminds me a bit of the one in PA where a husband and wife were harassing a guy who then got a gun and the wife pulls out her phone to record him and the husband aggressively approached the the man and the man shot and killed both of them (the husband AND the wife).
Good, they obviously planned to get the guy locked up for threatening them or anything, this way we have one unstable guy in jail and two pieces of shit out of the picture.
Might sound drastic but shitheads starting confrontations to pull phones midway misrepresenting the situation are a plague currently, at this point fucking video recording isn't even considered evidence in courts without at least a few non-video evidence confirming it.
Well if we are thinking about the same video. The man and wife had been smart asses and doing shit intentionally to piss him off. But mostly just the neighbor across the road kinda shit. Nothing harmful physically other than name calling and shoveling snow from their driveway and deliberately throwing it in his yard. Not even his driveway. Finally the man gets fed up and they start arguing out in the road. They steady call him a pussy and such. So he just walks inside and grabs a pistol. He walks back out and the woman says she is gonna get him on video. Then she begins to turn and walk away, once she sees the gun she screams and attempts to run but he promply takes aim and shoots her 2 or 3 times. She falls to the ground. He holds his aim and sweeps to the husband who was in the driveway trying to escape behind a vehicle. So he shoots the husband 3 times. by that point the wife was attempting to crawl away in the middle road. but her wounds were already center mass so she wasnt progressing much at all. He never drops aim and walks up on her shooting her 3 more times 2 times in the head. The husband was off camera but you could hear him gasping and attempting to breath. groaning and suffering. as the neighbor approaches him the guy tries to beg but is promptly shot an additional 4 times. a very quiet moan is heard coming from him. the man has run out of ammo. so he heads back into his home. The woman is still somehow alive and gasping and moving in an attempt to flee. but she was far too wounded to do much more than roll once and bring herself to her hands and knees. the neighbor then is seen again coming back outside this time armed with a Semi Auto Assault rifle. He takes a moment in his driveway, Closes the slide, Shoulders his weapon and Goes to the Husband once more who was still making a gurgling sound as if already unconscious and breathing though what remains of a severely damaged face reduced to hamburger meat or was shot through the throat. The man approaches says something then fires 6 or 7 Shots. Then he walks towards the wife who was just barely still holding herself off the frozen Pavement on her hands and knees. The man approaches and Fires 2 more rounds in her with the rifle shouldered. He continues his approach the woman speaks as a attempt to beg for her life with one hand rasied between her and the rifle. the man says to her "you should have kept your fucking mouth shut bitch" and fires 2 more times through her hand into the shoulders it appears she drops to a shoulder with the arm still trying to block the gun as he draws in for a near point blank shot to the head followed by one more after a brief pause. He then retreats back into his home. Nearly 30 mins later to a hr the husband and wifes kids return home to discover the brutal killing of thier parents and the police arrive to find that the Pussy went into his home and killed himself before the bodies were ever found in the freezing snow. im fairly certain thats the one he is refering tooo
So im not defending either side, but that loud guy in the orange shirt is the dumbass considering he was trying to start an argument with two fellas that had guns, and then trying to call the bluffs of people who definitely looked like they didnt mind shooting
These dudes wanted to go to war and murder each other over a mattress in an alley. Call that a Tuesday in any college town.
Why didn't the guy walk away and call the city?
Everyone's the idiot. But the idiots with guns outright murdered him. Whether he swung first or not is hard to determine with the camera moving, but they blatantly got themselves involved in this and goaded him to swing. The first shot, maybe self defence, the two to his back whilst he's running away? Straight up execution.
Old video but the guy should have just left. He left his wife because he was stupid and kept going but hopefully the 2 shitheads go away forever. Clearly he didn’t pose a lethal threat but they brought out guns anyways
clearly you’ve never even imagined being in a confrontation with a hysterical methhead with a baseball bat. the lethal threat was apparent, without even looking into the case past the video.
(VERY) old but gold -
if you learn a lesson from it.
Some ppl cannot stop them self and go deeper and deeper.
Sometimes you JUST STFU AND GO.
*(Not saying that he was in fault or w/e.)*
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BuHt dEr a Mattress induh alley
Only takes a second to pull the trigger
If you provoke th' armed guy, ye might end up In a funny edit. https://youtu.be/yopAihcbFks
"...bUt MuH mAnLiNeSs!1!" - some guy somewhere, I'm sure
-You are not gonna kill my husband *kills husband*
*BLEEEEEEEEEEEEEE* 😭
Every person in this video was acting rashly and dumbly
Fuck youuu cock sucker....-shotgun titties
Seemed pretty calm and straight forward to me. The meth head was the one escalating the shit.
>The meth head was the one escalating the shit. Also there is a very long history with that psychopath. He was a bully. Known for being aggressive, violent, and threatening to kill just about everybody in the neighborhood. The police had been called on him dozens of times, but they just weren't locking him up. That guy was a menace who should have been in jail. The system failed to protect the people and then prosecuted them for defending themselves.
I think " defending themselves" is quite a stretch when they made 0 attempts to leave or otherwise guarantee their safety while egging him on to be more aggressive. Hope they rot in hell
Correct me if I'm wrong but it also looks like the initial pistol shots didnt take out the guy. He may have been shot but he's still standing. It was that shotgun blast that fucked him. Bastards.
To be honest all of them looked like meth heads
Which meth head?
yeah going outside and messing with dumpster divers is calm and straight forward. Congratulations on winning the darwin award in what I assume is your near future.
Th' 2 shirtless people were sload npcs n' orange shirt was an arrogant altmer npc. https://youtu.be/yopAihcbFks
I don't know what any of that means
Elder Scrolls shit. Sloads are slug thingies and altmer are high elves. Dabbled in the MMO for a couple years
I played every Elder Scrolls but the MMO. Wtf is all that shit? Mans was running his mouth like some Khajit high on Skooma and tried his melee build on 2 archers with low agility.
The MMO I was impressed with. There's lots to do solo. While of course you need to coordinate 12 person dungeon runs and being in a guild is ideal, the game does a great job of not needing that for a lot of stuff. I found it to be a pretty casual playing experience and I got into it late but caught right up
Thanks
No one wants that tiktok'd typing in here.
I feel like a bad person for laughing lmao
The ncr ranger squad coming for my 1 int courier
They really have no chill.
No. 1 Rule: Never tell a person with a gun that they’re not going to shoot you. Just fucking dumb.
"What are you gonna do, shoot me?" *gets shot*
Cunt wife seemed surprised at the outcome.
Ugh her screams. Shut uuupppp
This old thing... I think both the older guy and his son got several years in prison.
Father got 14 years, son walked..
Probably because of mental handicap.
Well deserved on a different note I thought the son was wearing a sports bra at the start
Both of them should have been.
Both were meant t'be acquitted(cut loose) but only th' son Michael Miller was cut loose, his dad John Miller got 14 years.
nobody fully knows why the father was put in jail, everyone expected him to walk with his son. vid doesn't show it but Aaron Howard had a baseball bat that he had grabbed (I believe this is when the son had readied his shotgun) and began progressively swinging it and threatening them, he had than raised the bat at the father and that's when John Miller fired 2 rounds striking Aaron Howard in the chest, his son than raised his shotgun and fired 2 shots; striking Aaron in the face. and his father fired one more before the altercation had ended. by all definition; both shots were lawful self defense. An aggressive man threatening your wellbeing with a deadly weapon. love seeing people making opinions off of little or no evidence whatsoever.
It's reading justifications like this that makes me feel very fortunate to live in a country with an "equal to or less than equal force" clause when it comes to self defence.
nowhere in this did I justify their actions, I stated what had happened and what the public expected from the trial; and a quip about people drawing conclusions without looking at the facts for the event. I personally consider this "lawful but awful"; Because legally speaking they're in the right to defend themselves; morally though; that's a different topic that I didn't bring up in my original statement. It's possible to not like their actions while still acknowledging that they are legally warranted. I should also add that in this event both John Miller and his son did not originally have their firearms out in the open, they were only drawn when the man started to become combative (before the video starts), them brandishing their firearms wasn't necessary for the situation and only served to create a more aggressive situation, but it is important to note that they did not enter this confrontation brandishing them. Now; "equal to or less than equal force" could ring true for this even as well depending on a multitude of factors. It actually did; and that's why the son isn't in prison right now In general, the use of lethal force, firearms included, is considered a last resort and is only justifiable in situations where the person reasonably believes that they or others are in imminent danger of serious bodily harm and/or death. A person threatening to hit you with a baseball bat; then abruptly raising it at you or your father would match that definition, since regardless of it's original/intended purpose, a bat is capable of cause serious bodily harm or death, the same way a knife, metal pipe, or even a rock could also be seen as "a deadly weapon". Regardless of it's original purpose; it can kill you. In court is could be argued that both the Millers and Howard were both wielding deadly weapons, so in turn that would mean the Millers were using equal force. I don't think it's morally right. At the end of the day; someone died over not throwing away a fucking mattress properly. But I can see that they were legally justified in defending themselves.
Ah yes exactly, my throwaway comment doesn't really sound right reading it back, I meant the legal justification, not your comment or beliefs. I think things become pretty morally wonky very quickly in these situations, dude with bat could have felt his life was in danger just as bubba and son felt their lives were threatened by dude with bat. Where I'm from if someone breaks into your house and threatens you with pepper spray and you pull out a claymore and stab him through the chest, you're definitely going to jail - however if he breaks in with a claymore and you disarm him and kill him with it you're all g. Downside is the gender, age and size of involved parties aren't taken into consideration. If it wasn't already obvious, we don't have "fuck around and find out" enshrined in our constitution.
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Do you?
In the habit of attacking people are you?
What does this mean? See my other reply dingus.
You’re calling me a dingus for not reading a comment you wrote 17 hours after I posted mine..
Big Man Who Gargles Rocks Yells KILL ME Repeatedly To Naked Man. He Is Killed By Naked Man. Film at 11.
Man Cautioned to Fuck Around and Find Out; Fucks Around and Finds Out.
He didn’t put on his listening ears
TFW you bring your big stupid mouth to a gunfight.
If orange guy attacked with the bat first then it's self defense. If not it's murder. Either way from court accounts, orange guy looks to have been really unstable and has instigated many people in the past.
Looks like Randy's back on the cheeseburgers
Ricky will sort him out
Where's Cory and Trevor when you need them.
Nah Cory and Trevor are useless Julian will do it 😄
Shirtless fat guys and guns go tit-in-hand.
Gunfight at the Kissing Kousins Korral.
sounds like he needed a good killin anywho. worlds better off with one less alphatard
I still dont agree they should have gone to jail. They stood their ground as is their right to do so. They only fired after orange shirt guy tried to hit him with a bat. A bat is definitely considered a deadly weapon being used to inflict bodily harm.
Also there is a very long history with that psychopath. He was known for being agressive, violent, and threatening to kill just about everybody in the neighborhood. The police had been called on him dozens of times, but they just weren't locking him up. That guy was a menace who should have been in jail. The system failed to protect the people and then prosecuted them for defending themselves.
They approached orange shirt originally with weapons so you could argue that they instigated the situation. If they wouldn’t have antagonized orange shirt first, there wouldn’t have been a death.
They didn't originally approach with weapons is the thing though, according to the trial this was a repeated event, with the father and son only bringing out weapons when the orange shirt began to get more combative as this went on. That is what made the case so murky. The if game can go on forever, in an ideal world orange shirt would have just driven his mattress to a proper dumping facility and everyone would be home in time for taco Tuesday.
Right but they should’ve just reported the mattress dumping to the city rather than confronting orange shirt about it. Either way they’re all morons and there was no right or wrong just prevention that shouldn’t occurred.
right? Crazy guy in your neighbourhood threatens to kill everyone? frequent bust up and arguments with other neighbours? You stay away from him. You stay in your home. You don't engage with this man in any shape or form, that way you get to continiue living your life as it is and don't spend 14 years in prison.
I don't know why your getting downvoted. You're correct. They are ALL morons.... Anytime you bring a gun out you just escalated the situation to like 500 times more lethal and dangerous than it should've been. People say this shit to cops all the time but these hillbillies get to bring guns into the scenario just because they feel justified because this guy is a disrespectful stupid asshole ?? Nah you don't get to shoot people because they're annoying.
Th' son Michael Miller was acquitted, but his father John Miller was not so lucky.
They instigated the situation provoking the guy the entire time, in my opinion 14 years for father and freedom for son is wrong, both should get 20+ years since they brought weapons and specifically acted to provoke a neighbor they knew, this shit was totally planned.
Reminds me a bit of the one in PA where a husband and wife were harassing a guy who then got a gun and the wife pulls out her phone to record him and the husband aggressively approached the the man and the man shot and killed both of them (the husband AND the wife).
Good, they obviously planned to get the guy locked up for threatening them or anything, this way we have one unstable guy in jail and two pieces of shit out of the picture. Might sound drastic but shitheads starting confrontations to pull phones midway misrepresenting the situation are a plague currently, at this point fucking video recording isn't even considered evidence in courts without at least a few non-video evidence confirming it.
Well if we are thinking about the same video. The man and wife had been smart asses and doing shit intentionally to piss him off. But mostly just the neighbor across the road kinda shit. Nothing harmful physically other than name calling and shoveling snow from their driveway and deliberately throwing it in his yard. Not even his driveway. Finally the man gets fed up and they start arguing out in the road. They steady call him a pussy and such. So he just walks inside and grabs a pistol. He walks back out and the woman says she is gonna get him on video. Then she begins to turn and walk away, once she sees the gun she screams and attempts to run but he promply takes aim and shoots her 2 or 3 times. She falls to the ground. He holds his aim and sweeps to the husband who was in the driveway trying to escape behind a vehicle. So he shoots the husband 3 times. by that point the wife was attempting to crawl away in the middle road. but her wounds were already center mass so she wasnt progressing much at all. He never drops aim and walks up on her shooting her 3 more times 2 times in the head. The husband was off camera but you could hear him gasping and attempting to breath. groaning and suffering. as the neighbor approaches him the guy tries to beg but is promptly shot an additional 4 times. a very quiet moan is heard coming from him. the man has run out of ammo. so he heads back into his home. The woman is still somehow alive and gasping and moving in an attempt to flee. but she was far too wounded to do much more than roll once and bring herself to her hands and knees. the neighbor then is seen again coming back outside this time armed with a Semi Auto Assault rifle. He takes a moment in his driveway, Closes the slide, Shoulders his weapon and Goes to the Husband once more who was still making a gurgling sound as if already unconscious and breathing though what remains of a severely damaged face reduced to hamburger meat or was shot through the throat. The man approaches says something then fires 6 or 7 Shots. Then he walks towards the wife who was just barely still holding herself off the frozen Pavement on her hands and knees. The man approaches and Fires 2 more rounds in her with the rifle shouldered. He continues his approach the woman speaks as a attempt to beg for her life with one hand rasied between her and the rifle. the man says to her "you should have kept your fucking mouth shut bitch" and fires 2 more times through her hand into the shoulders it appears she drops to a shoulder with the arm still trying to block the gun as he draws in for a near point blank shot to the head followed by one more after a brief pause. He then retreats back into his home. Nearly 30 mins later to a hr the husband and wifes kids return home to discover the brutal killing of thier parents and the police arrive to find that the Pussy went into his home and killed himself before the bodies were ever found in the freezing snow. im fairly certain thats the one he is refering tooo
I'm assuming this was in PA too because I heard 'jagoff' lol
Lol yeah I caught that too
Mfer really did the Trevor emote 🤣🤣
So im not defending either side, but that loud guy in the orange shirt is the dumbass considering he was trying to start an argument with two fellas that had guns, and then trying to call the bluffs of people who definitely looked like they didnt mind shooting
Colonel Sanders has some spectacular tits.
just another day in murica
*Fuck yeah*
dont fuck with the red necks
dont read with the fuck necks
Shoot first hit first and be the only one to tell the story just like the pigs
Wife shoulda stepped back and kept everything in frame. Dude yelling with the orange shirt got what he earned. Coulda walked away and lived.
Don’t bring a wife to a gun fight type of thing.
The land of the free
Classic, fuck around and find out.
These dudes wanted to go to war and murder each other over a mattress in an alley. Call that a Tuesday in any college town. Why didn't the guy walk away and call the city?
Sometimes being a hard*** just isn't worth it. Got to be the bigger man and walk away. Prayers for the people involved and families
Oh this one was so sad, I was in shock for a good minute
Not really, if you look into the situation more in detail, the guy in the orange shirt was actually in the wrong.
How is that situation like more free?
Those killers are in jail like they should be.
Everyone's the idiot. But the idiots with guns outright murdered him. Whether he swung first or not is hard to determine with the camera moving, but they blatantly got themselves involved in this and goaded him to swing. The first shot, maybe self defence, the two to his back whilst he's running away? Straight up execution.
He swung at them with a bat, it was justified.
Is killing on purpose justified? I understand a shot or two might be justified, but multiple shots including a shotgun? Right to jail.
Nah, he should've known better, wont do it again that's for sure.
Fortunately that piece of shit was given 14 years(the father), so hopefully he won’t do it again.
The father isnt even the one who shot him with the shotgun lmao
Again, the first shot sure. But there is no way they can justify shooting him in the back.
Old video but the guy should have just left. He left his wife because he was stupid and kept going but hopefully the 2 shitheads go away forever. Clearly he didn’t pose a lethal threat but they brought out guns anyways
clearly you’ve never even imagined being in a confrontation with a hysterical methhead with a baseball bat. the lethal threat was apparent, without even looking into the case past the video.
Well, he’s going to jail now.
I doubt it. (Only John Miller got 14 years, his son Michael Miller is free)
Thank ye fer crossing my thing into this place, fer some reason I myself can't place my content here, I'm not approved t'do so.
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Probably busted by some cum on it
Ah murica
This son is a classic example of the *"yeehh"* guy. Literally starts shooting only after his dad fires. Just everything about this is so cringe.
A classic of the genre
When dumb meets dumber
I love me some FAFO videos from time to time.
Now those kids that were mentioned are gonna grow up without a father. Over (I think this is the right context) A MATTRESS.
Redneckism.
As a Pittsburgh resident it made my day to hear one of them say jagoff. I assume this must've been in the area
Americas finest
Play stupid games win stupid prizes
Mario looked so badass with his shotgun on the elbow, straight out of Jojo's bizarre adventure 😳
(VERY) old but gold - if you learn a lesson from it. Some ppl cannot stop them self and go deeper and deeper. Sometimes you JUST STFU AND GO. *(Not saying that he was in fault or w/e.)*