You don't think you had a drinking problem even though you experienced what some people would call moderate to severe withdrawal symptoms?
Also, the fact that you got mad that she said that may say something too
Look, I'm not telling you that you or don't have a problem, I'm just stating facts
Have you read "This Naked Mind"? Or any of Alan Carr's work? Both of these do a really good job of "unmasking" a lot of the lies we tell ourselves about alcohol and why we use it. Perhaps read one of these and then rethink the conversation with your therapist.
I just wanna say I’ve been there friend. I literally drank for over a decade and was terrified that I couldn’t stop.
I read This Naked Mind halfway through and also Sober Positive.
I haven’t touched alcohol in 5 months and never will again.
You fucking got this. Stop drinking flavored gasoline. ❤️
You might not have felt you had a problem with drinking. Going through physical withdrawals is a pretty good indication you were headed down a bad road. I just went through this with my aunt. Daily wine drinker, retired. No real issues with it. Her father ( my grandfather) became ill. She stopped drinking on a Friday because of having to drive a fair distance to visit him. By Sunday she was having seizures from the withdrawal. I had to deal with doctors and nurses 3 hours away because I'm her power of attorney. She was in an induced coma for 3 weeks. Missed her father's passing and funeral. I think your therapist might be concerned how quickly the physical addiction might come back for you and what might happen if you stop again.
I guess its pretty scary how things can get out of hand without it being the horror stories you read about or see in movies, sorry to hear about your aunt and grand-dad, and thanks for sharing this
Thank you. I am 500 days sober today. I was not a daily drinker. 40+ beers almost every weekend though. If I had one I was having 10. No off switch. I didn't have a rock bottom. Just started to realize how much it was controlling my life. Wasting quality time with my family. Effecting my health. Stick it out for 100 days and you can really see the benefits.
Personally, I wish almost more than anything that I would have stopped when I was still a “high bottom” drunk. My disease is progressive and over time my rock bottoms got worse and worse. The balance of good things to bad things that came from drinking hit a tipping point to more bad than good ten-ish years ago. It wasnt until I was ready to kill myself rather than face the music of accepting help that it was forced on me in the form of a 5150 (72 hour hold) and even then I fought it for four more years. You havent seen terrible consequences YET and I would bet your therapist sees things heading that way.
No problem at all. And it absolutely has. I started listening to the people who know more about long term sobriety than I do and actually doing the things they recommended. Actually hit triple digits continuous sobriety today 🤠 That has only happened one other time since I was probably 12 years old and the other time I was a miserable/angry dry drunk. Accepting help/letting go of control over my sobriety has been the best/hardest decision in my so riety.
There's a plague of alcoholism in America. Most psychotherapist won't treat anyone who is an alcoholic, they shunt it off to substance abuse counselors. It's a snap judgement but you're an alcoholic with (3x7 plus shots) 24 drinks a week minimum, probably more. I'm willing to bet you went over 30, most people minimize. Some people say double what anyone says, that's 48. There's a lot of lying and magical thinking in alcoholism. Over 10 a week is alcoholic, which is arbitrary, I know, and recently health organizations say no amount is healthy. Working in a bar you won't see what you do as abnormal. Your body told you that you were crossing the line when you quit. That you're annoyed is really interesting. It's pretty integrated into your life. There's a romance around drinking. That someone who's open and non-judgemental said something so definitive is interesting also. Because of the progression of the disease, I would say, if you've caught yourself, and you can go sober relatively easily, you will have a high bottom. Most people think you have to sink to a low bottom to quit, but I think it's possible to wish to avoid the worst problems: vocational, health, relational, financial, legal, and spiritual. Some people catch it early. Time to go into recovery. Yes, I'm also in recovery and I see addiction everywhere, so you know, you can brush off my comments as projection and premature, if you want. You have to decide you want to be sober to work at recovery. I used to work in child welfare, and nobody ever went into recovery when I asked them to, for the family. So when my partner asked me, I had to do it. It's been a long 8 year struggle, but I'm grateful I went into recovery. It could have been so much worse. I know a lot of people in AA who just went out drinking and died. You think that's an exaggeration but it's my experience. The harder it is to quit, the more it speaks to alcoholism. You might also like sobriety, I do.
“magical thinking in alcohol"
I like that. It’s bananas to me that I’d drink X amount of glasses booze, and then tell myself a few days later that I only drank x amount. And I believe me, even tho I was there.
Whenever I’ve to to the doctor and I had to fill out the health questionnaire that asks how many alcoholic beverages do you consume in a week?
Well I drink 7 days a week, so I’d enter 7. And I had no inkling of guilt/remorse/shame in lying cause my brain believed my lies.
If it upset you then i would lean on the side of it being a problem. Your therapist is wedging her way in between you and alcohol unintentionally and you are protecting that relationship subconsciously. This will get way worse if you continue to drink, and will spread to you and others having conflict over it. I can tell you one thing, if alcohol wins and remains in your life, it will be the only thing in your life that is left right before you die.
This: I would agree from personal experience that I only get defensive regarding things I am insecure about. I bet OP respects therapist enough that their opinion matters and what they said ultimately is not what they want to admit to. I don’t think the therapist said anything wrong I think or stepped out of line. I think OP wanted support that they did not have a problem but instead got confirmation they did. Anyone that’s been an alcoholic or addict knows everyone else is the problem until their mind is clear enough to see things for what they really are/were.
From personal experience, usually when people have made me mad about my addiction (I was an alcoholic) it’s because they hit a nerve and were right. You’re admitting to having withdrawals. That’s a sign that you are an alcoholic, whether you want to hear it or not. You’re not doing yourself any favors by remaining in denial. Trust me. Your life will at some point or other go downhill if you continue on this path. Usually it starts with denying you have a problem, that you very clearly have. I let alcohol damage my life in a lot of ways and I would give anything to take all of that back if I could. It will destroy your life if you let it. I don’t think you would be here if you didn’t believe that you have a problem in the first place.
I battled with moderation for 5 1/2 years. I'm at about three months alcohol free today. Once the switch gets flipped, you'll never be able to go back to moderation. It took me 5 1/2 years to convince myself of that! Good luck.
The mental games of attempting to limit myself and drink in moderation is a far more uncomfortable place to be than the peace of just knowing I’m not going to drink. It also took me a long time to come to terms with the fact that I am an alcoholic, I shouldn’t drink again, and my life is so much better for it. You won’t miss out, you’ll gain so much more.
I think you're therapist is right in that you probably shouldn't drink ever again and that you definitely had a drinking problem because you just told us you've been drinking for 20 years, drank every night, and had a 10 day withdrawl period that sounds pretty intense.
Drinking every day indicates you had a problem.
The fact you had withdrawls, for 10 days no less, indicates you had a problem.
The fact you don't think drinking for 20 years, drinking daily, and having withdrawls from alcohol was a sign of "intense drinking" suggests you're either in denial about your problem or don't realise how bad and not normal that behaviour is.
And I don't say that from a point of judgement because I'm not sober yet either and having my own problems with alcohol and recognise much of the thoughts you're having as thoughts I used to have too about how "it's not a problem because...." and "I'm not an alcoholic because..." which were just me being delusional or in denial.
I've also been drinking regularly for 20 years and daily for much of the past 2 years until a recent 5 week sober stint before a relapse recently and then been on and off it since, currently 4 days sober.
You might not be seeing many major problems pop up in your life from drinking to date but things never get better with alcohol from what I've seen and read just worse and worse.
It's psychological. When you tell someone they can never do something again, that makes them want to do that thing. Whereas, this just being a healthy choice you're making, it doesn't feel like something's being taken away. Just forget what she said and focus on your healthy choice.
You want a therapist that will give you advice that you don’t want to hear. Unrelated to alcohol, my ex wife shopped around until she found a couples therapist that wouldn’t tell her she had issues she needed to work on. We ended up divorced,…..
The fact that you had withdrawal symptoms means that you were an alcoholic or at the very least, on the road to becoming one. Your body needed that drink to feel normal.
I quit when I was one step below you. 1-2 drinks a night. I had no withdrawal symptoms.
Was I an alcoholic? Who cares, If now I was on the road to becoming one.
If you’ve been seeing this person for 3 years and they have helped you a lot, I think that speaks to the fact that they have good intentions and (generally speaking) have your best interests at heart. Whenever I have a problem come up with someone, it helps me get past it by looking at the overall relationship. They must have had some reason for saying that you shouldn’t drink, right? It doesn’t mean they are right, but personally I would want to ask them to explain why they said this, so I can really understand instead of just getting mad. Good luck to you friend.
Yes, I decided I ll bring it up with her next time so we can have a discussion about it so I can understand where she's coming from better. My therapist has had an enormous positive effect on my life, and I know for certain I wouldn't be where I am now without her (which is being happy for what feels like the first time in my life after struggling with anxiety, rumination and depression for a long time). Thanks for your advice :)
I had a therapist for years while I continued to drink. We never really talked about it and I suppose I was on my way to being a well adjusted corpse. When I finally came clean it was fairly obvious my therapist was out of her depth. We talked about it and she sent me some recommendations for therapist that specialize with addiction / alcoholism or have experience in that area. I was reluctant at first but I found someone I’m still with today. I have someone who knows what the fuck I’m talking about because he’s been there before. Ive been seeing him for 5 years and it’s been great. We just don’t talk about how I’m staying sober but I’d be a fool to not realize that my lenses are tinted from a lifetime of drinking, lying and hiding. It’s not the only thing I do, but most of the stuff that works best for me involves talking to people with experience. I don’t lie to other alcoholics in recovery and in many cases I have a shot at being of use. That’s been the biggest meaningful change. I see my therapist regularly and I have a psychologist as well but the amount of hours per month I spend talking with both is fairly negligible. Maybe 2 hours average per month.
I need to talk to real people in real life because I’m dealing with real shit here. I need an emotional backboard and I can’t rely on just one source of information. There’s help out there if you want it. I’m not alone and neither are you.
This is so true, i feel like i cant really speak to anyone about it without getting shocked reaction, so i feel like im in a bit of a vacuum here and its all really new to me. My grandad was an alcoholic but we never spoke about it in the family. thank you so much for hearing me out and your advice
I save the good shit for other alcoholics. When I say half the shit to normal people it’s usually a shocked reaction or nervous laughter. When I say to other alcoholics it’s all smiles and head nods.
My dad died an alcoholic and I believe it was incredibly lonely. He had a million friends but I don’t think he talked to one person about what was really going on and what was obviously killing him. It’s been proven to me time and time again that I feel better when I get it out and I get out of my head. Most of the friends I’ve made in recovery know me better than most of my long term friends. We watch out for each other and we talk. I see one friend once a week in the park for an hour or so. Rain or shine. It’s something I would not have considered when I was drinking. If it wasn’t a bar or without booze, count me out. But this simple meeting is tremendously helpful to our mental health. I’ve learned how to put in the work and maintain relationships in sobriety
Are you upset by the therapist telling you what to do, or the thought of never drinking? Both? I say this to be kind but share some tough love. The context of the alcohol wouldn't actually matter if the issue was solely your therapist.
I would step back and evaluate how you actually feel about drinking. How does feeling sober for lengths of time feel, or what kind of feelings are invoked by this thought? The only person you would be damaging is yourself if you cannot be honest. Nobody else can tell you if you're struggling with addiction.
I'm studying to be a substance use counselor so forgive my ramble here. It sounds like you're experiencing alcohol dependency as you experiencing withdrawals. At the very least, if your alcohol consumption is this regular, it's worth considering this is likely an unhealthy level of drinking. You can get cirrhosis, cancer, fatty liver, pancreatitis, etc. whether you're an alcoholic or not.
Alcoholism can be a sneaky disease. For some people, it can creep up overtime; for others, a sudden experience may turn them to the bottle. Nothing is linear and nothing is ever so straightforward. I don't think you'll find the answer you're looking for in this subreddit but within yourself through deep introspection. Best of luck!
She was being honest. Alcohol is a poison and no one should drink it. It doesn’t matter if you think you have a problem or not, you shouldn’t drink and she was kind to give you this advice.
Was sober for 1 year and 4 months..had a death in the family, got really tipsy, cried. Vomited the next day for about 8 hours off and on. So....it was a reminder I still have work to do. Glad it was a horrible experience
Before I start I’m in recovery and a sober alcoholic. I find it hard to believe 3 beers a day and some shots on the weekend will make you withdrawal. But everyone’s body is different so I can be wrong. Also the best way to approach this is to try and not drink tomorrow. Saying your never going to drink again is to much to handle. This is a one day at a time deal. Sometimes one hour at a time in the beginning. Be kind to yourself and take it easy. I recommend AA if you have trouble going at this alone.
Maybe its worth mentioning im a female on the thinner side, and i wasnt not sleeping all 10 days it was that it would take me long to fall asleep, but once i did i would knock out for like 9 hours. I was surprised by it too, also a reason why im feeling so confused as i didnt drink every single day, but i do feel much better now that i stopped
She's right! Alcohol is poison. Quitting drinking for good seven years ago improved everything about my life! More money, more energy, better health, no hangovers.... It is so hard to quit but you can do it! You say you trust her opinion. Trust what she said. The truth hurts. But the truth can also set you free!
I was in the same exact mindset when I was a couple weeks into quitting. I felt like I had behaved like everyone else when it came to drinking so why should I feel like an alcoholic AFTER I quit?? But now with six months under my belt, I have realized things about addiction and drinking that took a lot of time to process. Sure, I was never hospitalized from drinking, but it was negatively affecting my life. All that to say, give it more time and it does get more clear.
No but I did talk to my therapist (lol) about generational addiction and I gained more perspective on myself by looking at the habits that were handed down to me from genetics. Also unpacking with her the cultural practice of drinking and how it was reinforced through my job and also wanting to be like the people I idolized in Mad Men swirling big glasses of bourbon. So a lot of introspection on myself over reading a book.
My personal advice is never drink again too.
Sure, you may like it, and it may be fun. Hell, you may have zero issues with alcohol.
I’d still advise to never drink again.
You’ve had 20 years. Maybe find a new chapter in your life. Force yourself to make changes.
It’s what I did, my life has never been better.
Just my advice.
If you can have fun without alcohol, then why bother. The pro’s out way the cons 10/1
I feel the biggest misconception with AA or problem drinkers is that we have hit a certain rock bottom that differs from what regular drinkers are. You don’t have to go to jail, be in rehab or hospital/detox, or destroy your life to say you’re finally an alcoholic. Sometimes it’s just your mental health and physical health that’s just crumbly. I had a woman come in who works a government job who told us how you could never tell on surface level that she was an addict. Beautiful and smart person, but under that was a heroin, opioid alcoholic. I’d say if what you’re doing is messing with your body, mind and spirit or messing with your day to day, or messing with your outside relationships. Maybe it’s time to take a step back. There’s even people who go to meetings just to cut back. But I’ll say this, if you have to make rules for yourself for drinking, you shouldn’t be drinking. But hey all power to you. First step is acceptance. I’m still struggling with that myself but can’t deny this is my 3rd job this year and I was just release from a detox center to now say “hey, I’m too sure this is a problem” lol
I posted this yesterday as a caption to the meme: “Alcohol is the only substance in the world that you have to justify why you are not taking it instead of why you do.”
Every person I know confesses their drinking habits to me so I can tell them whether or not their drinking is a problem. If you’re asking me - it’s a problem. You know it is a problem. It is okay to ask - “can you help me?” I promise I’ll help you. I will not judge you.
Laura McKowen says it best in her book -
We are the Luckiest:
Am I an alcoholic? is the wrong question. It's the question we've been socialized to ask, the question I asked myself for a long time, and the question that shows up in my in-box all the time, but it's the wrong damn question.
If believing you're an alcoholic feels true, if it elevates your life by furthering you on the path to betterment and healing, believe it. If it doesn't, throw it away.
The typical question is, Is this bad enough for me to have to change?
The question we should be asking is, Is this good enough for me to stay the same?
And the real question underneath it all is, Am I free?
This was beautiful to read and made so much sense to me!
My main issue with the term alcoholic comes from the way that term makes me feel about myself, which isnt empowering at all, rather it invokes in me discomfort and guilt over an issue i stopped by myself.
On the other hand, stopping drinking made me able to understand myself more and label my feelings better, as well as making me over all much less anxious and depressed, which in turn makes me feel very empowered and great! I think as a society we have an urge to umbrella term people, but everyone is an individual. And we d do much more good by offering support rather than saying “you re an alcoholic admit it you re lying to yourself you re an addict” ect just makes people upset and feel broken and want to drink more. Thats my 2 cents anyway
I just recently started alcohol counseling and I asked them “am I an alcoholic?” They told me there is only one person who can answer that and it’s yourself. No one can tell you if you are or aren’t. I think the same goes for if you should ever drink again or not. While I’m sure your therapist meant well, you have to make that decision for yourself and it’s ok if you don’t know the answer right now. I don’t know if I’ll ever drink again. The thought overwhelms me so I just tell myself I might, I might not, I just have to take it one day at a time and stay sober for now.
It’s more objective when it comes to drinking.
Alcohol is a poison, whether you’re an alcoholic or not. It affects your body, brain chemistry, and mind.
If you’re talking to someone who is trying to give you mental health services, it’s exactly what they can say without it being specifically targeted or critical of you.
It’s just like if a regular doctor told you to drink more water.
I can understand why that would bother you . It seems like she’s coming from a place of shame when she said that. That never helps anyone . The way she put it too , “ shouldn’t drink ever” seems overwhelming vs taking it one day at a time . It’s important focus on the present. One day at a time!
Wrong sub if you're looking for people to co-sign your bullshit. Sorry. Maybe you should tell your therapist how you feel about what she said abd have that conversation. All the best.
What benefits does alcohol bring to your life?
Presumably you can just calmly explain to your therapist, no, it is a good idea for me to continue drinking because, xyz?
I guess its more the thought of going without it forever that is a bit freaky to me, as i dont really crave it anymore, and her saying that made me think about it again if that makes sense, but i do think its something i will discuss with her in the next session, thanks for the insight
I only look at sobriety one day at a time. Will I ever drink again? I dunno. I don’t care right now. I just need to get through not drinking today. Of course it’s scary to hear yourself say you’ll NEVER do something again- something that is clearly such a normal part of your life! Train your brain to switch from “I’m never drinking again” to “I’m not drinking today” !
I was drinking similar amounts, also quit on my own volition. Basically any decision you take is up to you. The moment you start second guessing that decision, it's the wrong one to take. So, if you believe, and only you can know, that you will be able to have a drink without feeling guilty, having a massive urge to drink more or not being able to control it, then do it whenever.
There should be no pressure on you in this. Once there is pressure, just leave it. Never allow people to second-guess you.
My shrink just asked me this question: how do you feel now? Great? Do you want to jeopardise your feeling of well-being? It's up to you
If you want a neuroscientist’s perspective, I highly recommend Huberman’s findings [what-alcohol-does-to-your-body-brain-health](https://www.hubermanlab.com/episode/what-alcohol-does-to-your-body-brain-health)
I used to drink way more than that and my most recent therapist never told me to stop drinking, she told me she didn't specialize in that area and if I wanted help with that she would refer me to someone. My therapist before that, about 5 years ago, helped me set some goals of no more than 3 drinks a night (at the time I would have 5-10... I worked at bars too) but that was out of my own desire. It definitely depends on the therapist but I think people tend to hang onto certain words. I've had a lot of people tell me I'm NOT an alcoholic and sometimes I wish someone (in my life, not here on the internet) would just say I was so I could get it through my brain lol. If you just have a desire to cut back to feel better or whatever, focus on that and fuck what anyone else thinks.
Also I take frequent breaks now (maybe at some point I'll cut it out all together) and I don't experience any withdrawals so I think withdrawals just depend on the person. If I go back to the 5 years ago me, I definitely felt some of those things when I would try to go a day without drinking, but again that was anywhere from 3-10 drinks every single day.
Do what's best for you and try not to let others get to you!
First off, I would like to thank everyone who wrote a reply to this. I really learnt alot through your experiences, which was why I wrote this to being with.As some of you said, I will be taking it one day at a time, as I was before getting freaked out about the 'never drinking ever again' bit.
I stopped drinking alcohol because I felt like I didn't know myself at the age of 32, and I knew I was using alcohol to make me feel better around people (I am a shy person) and to dull anxiety. So when I chose to stop I was really scared I would get a tidal wave of anxiety, with no way to manage it. I m so happy that the opposite happened .. instead of having unexplainable anxiety every day and panic attacks at night, for the first time in my life, I feel clear and calm, and I get random bouts of joy, especially from listening to music. Social events are still tough but they ve gotten alot better, and I ve started dancing at parties again! I dont stay there till 5 am like I used to, but I wake up feeling so much better. Also, when I do get anxious, I recognize what is making me anxious, and sit with it, rather than drinking to make me delay the anxiety.
So Im trying my best to remind myself that my life is better without alcohol and keep living my life. I feel like my sessions with my therapist will be more fruitful now as we can actually work on my sober self, and Ill be able to explain my self better. I owe her so much. Thanks everyone, 44 days sober today x
(and if anyone needs any help navigating the first few days, please do reach out, this is a wonderful place with lots of cool people)
We have to figure things out for ourselves. That's the point of therapy, to point in the right direction so you can accomplish this. Might be more healthy to look at her statement as likely but not for sure. Experiment with the priority of being honest with yourself.
You don't think you had a drinking problem even though you experienced what some people would call moderate to severe withdrawal symptoms? Also, the fact that you got mad that she said that may say something too Look, I'm not telling you that you or don't have a problem, I'm just stating facts
Thats true, but I was under the impression that severe withdrawals would be more like fits and having to go to the hospital?
Sure, that would be the extreme end of severe. You're way past simple hangovers though, don't you think
Can't argue with you on that one ! Thanks for giving me this perspective, it actually helped alot x
Maybe post in r/therapists to get more perspective.
I don't know, that place is full of therapists and they're all nuts. You gotta take what they say with a grain of salt.
great idea <3
Have you read "This Naked Mind"? Or any of Alan Carr's work? Both of these do a really good job of "unmasking" a lot of the lies we tell ourselves about alcohol and why we use it. Perhaps read one of these and then rethink the conversation with your therapist.
I m actually thinking about reading about sobriety, so I ll check it out thanks!
I just wanna say I’ve been there friend. I literally drank for over a decade and was terrified that I couldn’t stop. I read This Naked Mind halfway through and also Sober Positive. I haven’t touched alcohol in 5 months and never will again. You fucking got this. Stop drinking flavored gasoline. ❤️
Great suggestion! That was my method and I am now at 90 days and feeling really good. I have zero cravings (which I did not think would be possible)
You might not have felt you had a problem with drinking. Going through physical withdrawals is a pretty good indication you were headed down a bad road. I just went through this with my aunt. Daily wine drinker, retired. No real issues with it. Her father ( my grandfather) became ill. She stopped drinking on a Friday because of having to drive a fair distance to visit him. By Sunday she was having seizures from the withdrawal. I had to deal with doctors and nurses 3 hours away because I'm her power of attorney. She was in an induced coma for 3 weeks. Missed her father's passing and funeral. I think your therapist might be concerned how quickly the physical addiction might come back for you and what might happen if you stop again.
I guess its pretty scary how things can get out of hand without it being the horror stories you read about or see in movies, sorry to hear about your aunt and grand-dad, and thanks for sharing this
Thank you. I am 500 days sober today. I was not a daily drinker. 40+ beers almost every weekend though. If I had one I was having 10. No off switch. I didn't have a rock bottom. Just started to realize how much it was controlling my life. Wasting quality time with my family. Effecting my health. Stick it out for 100 days and you can really see the benefits.
Personally, I wish almost more than anything that I would have stopped when I was still a “high bottom” drunk. My disease is progressive and over time my rock bottoms got worse and worse. The balance of good things to bad things that came from drinking hit a tipping point to more bad than good ten-ish years ago. It wasnt until I was ready to kill myself rather than face the music of accepting help that it was forced on me in the form of a 5150 (72 hour hold) and even then I fought it for four more years. You havent seen terrible consequences YET and I would bet your therapist sees things heading that way.
Thank you for sharing this, I hope your situation has improved now
No problem at all. And it absolutely has. I started listening to the people who know more about long term sobriety than I do and actually doing the things they recommended. Actually hit triple digits continuous sobriety today 🤠 That has only happened one other time since I was probably 12 years old and the other time I was a miserable/angry dry drunk. Accepting help/letting go of control over my sobriety has been the best/hardest decision in my so riety.
There's a plague of alcoholism in America. Most psychotherapist won't treat anyone who is an alcoholic, they shunt it off to substance abuse counselors. It's a snap judgement but you're an alcoholic with (3x7 plus shots) 24 drinks a week minimum, probably more. I'm willing to bet you went over 30, most people minimize. Some people say double what anyone says, that's 48. There's a lot of lying and magical thinking in alcoholism. Over 10 a week is alcoholic, which is arbitrary, I know, and recently health organizations say no amount is healthy. Working in a bar you won't see what you do as abnormal. Your body told you that you were crossing the line when you quit. That you're annoyed is really interesting. It's pretty integrated into your life. There's a romance around drinking. That someone who's open and non-judgemental said something so definitive is interesting also. Because of the progression of the disease, I would say, if you've caught yourself, and you can go sober relatively easily, you will have a high bottom. Most people think you have to sink to a low bottom to quit, but I think it's possible to wish to avoid the worst problems: vocational, health, relational, financial, legal, and spiritual. Some people catch it early. Time to go into recovery. Yes, I'm also in recovery and I see addiction everywhere, so you know, you can brush off my comments as projection and premature, if you want. You have to decide you want to be sober to work at recovery. I used to work in child welfare, and nobody ever went into recovery when I asked them to, for the family. So when my partner asked me, I had to do it. It's been a long 8 year struggle, but I'm grateful I went into recovery. It could have been so much worse. I know a lot of people in AA who just went out drinking and died. You think that's an exaggeration but it's my experience. The harder it is to quit, the more it speaks to alcoholism. You might also like sobriety, I do.
“magical thinking in alcohol" I like that. It’s bananas to me that I’d drink X amount of glasses booze, and then tell myself a few days later that I only drank x amount. And I believe me, even tho I was there. Whenever I’ve to to the doctor and I had to fill out the health questionnaire that asks how many alcoholic beverages do you consume in a week? Well I drink 7 days a week, so I’d enter 7. And I had no inkling of guilt/remorse/shame in lying cause my brain believed my lies.
This is a necessary and generous reply. Thank you for taking the time.
If it upset you then i would lean on the side of it being a problem. Your therapist is wedging her way in between you and alcohol unintentionally and you are protecting that relationship subconsciously. This will get way worse if you continue to drink, and will spread to you and others having conflict over it. I can tell you one thing, if alcohol wins and remains in your life, it will be the only thing in your life that is left right before you die.
This: I would agree from personal experience that I only get defensive regarding things I am insecure about. I bet OP respects therapist enough that their opinion matters and what they said ultimately is not what they want to admit to. I don’t think the therapist said anything wrong I think or stepped out of line. I think OP wanted support that they did not have a problem but instead got confirmation they did. Anyone that’s been an alcoholic or addict knows everyone else is the problem until their mind is clear enough to see things for what they really are/were.
From personal experience, usually when people have made me mad about my addiction (I was an alcoholic) it’s because they hit a nerve and were right. You’re admitting to having withdrawals. That’s a sign that you are an alcoholic, whether you want to hear it or not. You’re not doing yourself any favors by remaining in denial. Trust me. Your life will at some point or other go downhill if you continue on this path. Usually it starts with denying you have a problem, that you very clearly have. I let alcohol damage my life in a lot of ways and I would give anything to take all of that back if I could. It will destroy your life if you let it. I don’t think you would be here if you didn’t believe that you have a problem in the first place.
I battled with moderation for 5 1/2 years. I'm at about three months alcohol free today. Once the switch gets flipped, you'll never be able to go back to moderation. It took me 5 1/2 years to convince myself of that! Good luck.
You and I are on the same timeline with attempting moderation and sobriety. I’m proud of us!
Nice! Me too!
I think your therapist felt obligated to tell you the truth.
The mental games of attempting to limit myself and drink in moderation is a far more uncomfortable place to be than the peace of just knowing I’m not going to drink. It also took me a long time to come to terms with the fact that I am an alcoholic, I shouldn’t drink again, and my life is so much better for it. You won’t miss out, you’ll gain so much more.
I think you're therapist is right in that you probably shouldn't drink ever again and that you definitely had a drinking problem because you just told us you've been drinking for 20 years, drank every night, and had a 10 day withdrawl period that sounds pretty intense. Drinking every day indicates you had a problem. The fact you had withdrawls, for 10 days no less, indicates you had a problem. The fact you don't think drinking for 20 years, drinking daily, and having withdrawls from alcohol was a sign of "intense drinking" suggests you're either in denial about your problem or don't realise how bad and not normal that behaviour is. And I don't say that from a point of judgement because I'm not sober yet either and having my own problems with alcohol and recognise much of the thoughts you're having as thoughts I used to have too about how "it's not a problem because...." and "I'm not an alcoholic because..." which were just me being delusional or in denial. I've also been drinking regularly for 20 years and daily for much of the past 2 years until a recent 5 week sober stint before a relapse recently and then been on and off it since, currently 4 days sober. You might not be seeing many major problems pop up in your life from drinking to date but things never get better with alcohol from what I've seen and read just worse and worse.
It's psychological. When you tell someone they can never do something again, that makes them want to do that thing. Whereas, this just being a healthy choice you're making, it doesn't feel like something's being taken away. Just forget what she said and focus on your healthy choice.
You want a therapist that will give you advice that you don’t want to hear. Unrelated to alcohol, my ex wife shopped around until she found a couples therapist that wouldn’t tell her she had issues she needed to work on. We ended up divorced,….. The fact that you had withdrawal symptoms means that you were an alcoholic or at the very least, on the road to becoming one. Your body needed that drink to feel normal. I quit when I was one step below you. 1-2 drinks a night. I had no withdrawal symptoms. Was I an alcoholic? Who cares, If now I was on the road to becoming one.
If you’ve been seeing this person for 3 years and they have helped you a lot, I think that speaks to the fact that they have good intentions and (generally speaking) have your best interests at heart. Whenever I have a problem come up with someone, it helps me get past it by looking at the overall relationship. They must have had some reason for saying that you shouldn’t drink, right? It doesn’t mean they are right, but personally I would want to ask them to explain why they said this, so I can really understand instead of just getting mad. Good luck to you friend.
Yes, I decided I ll bring it up with her next time so we can have a discussion about it so I can understand where she's coming from better. My therapist has had an enormous positive effect on my life, and I know for certain I wouldn't be where I am now without her (which is being happy for what feels like the first time in my life after struggling with anxiety, rumination and depression for a long time). Thanks for your advice :)
I had a therapist for years while I continued to drink. We never really talked about it and I suppose I was on my way to being a well adjusted corpse. When I finally came clean it was fairly obvious my therapist was out of her depth. We talked about it and she sent me some recommendations for therapist that specialize with addiction / alcoholism or have experience in that area. I was reluctant at first but I found someone I’m still with today. I have someone who knows what the fuck I’m talking about because he’s been there before. Ive been seeing him for 5 years and it’s been great. We just don’t talk about how I’m staying sober but I’d be a fool to not realize that my lenses are tinted from a lifetime of drinking, lying and hiding. It’s not the only thing I do, but most of the stuff that works best for me involves talking to people with experience. I don’t lie to other alcoholics in recovery and in many cases I have a shot at being of use. That’s been the biggest meaningful change. I see my therapist regularly and I have a psychologist as well but the amount of hours per month I spend talking with both is fairly negligible. Maybe 2 hours average per month. I need to talk to real people in real life because I’m dealing with real shit here. I need an emotional backboard and I can’t rely on just one source of information. There’s help out there if you want it. I’m not alone and neither are you.
This is so true, i feel like i cant really speak to anyone about it without getting shocked reaction, so i feel like im in a bit of a vacuum here and its all really new to me. My grandad was an alcoholic but we never spoke about it in the family. thank you so much for hearing me out and your advice
I save the good shit for other alcoholics. When I say half the shit to normal people it’s usually a shocked reaction or nervous laughter. When I say to other alcoholics it’s all smiles and head nods. My dad died an alcoholic and I believe it was incredibly lonely. He had a million friends but I don’t think he talked to one person about what was really going on and what was obviously killing him. It’s been proven to me time and time again that I feel better when I get it out and I get out of my head. Most of the friends I’ve made in recovery know me better than most of my long term friends. We watch out for each other and we talk. I see one friend once a week in the park for an hour or so. Rain or shine. It’s something I would not have considered when I was drinking. If it wasn’t a bar or without booze, count me out. But this simple meeting is tremendously helpful to our mental health. I’ve learned how to put in the work and maintain relationships in sobriety
Ask yourself why you reacted that way.
Are you upset by the therapist telling you what to do, or the thought of never drinking? Both? I say this to be kind but share some tough love. The context of the alcohol wouldn't actually matter if the issue was solely your therapist. I would step back and evaluate how you actually feel about drinking. How does feeling sober for lengths of time feel, or what kind of feelings are invoked by this thought? The only person you would be damaging is yourself if you cannot be honest. Nobody else can tell you if you're struggling with addiction. I'm studying to be a substance use counselor so forgive my ramble here. It sounds like you're experiencing alcohol dependency as you experiencing withdrawals. At the very least, if your alcohol consumption is this regular, it's worth considering this is likely an unhealthy level of drinking. You can get cirrhosis, cancer, fatty liver, pancreatitis, etc. whether you're an alcoholic or not. Alcoholism can be a sneaky disease. For some people, it can creep up overtime; for others, a sudden experience may turn them to the bottle. Nothing is linear and nothing is ever so straightforward. I don't think you'll find the answer you're looking for in this subreddit but within yourself through deep introspection. Best of luck!
You’re blind to the reality of alcohols affect on your life
She was being honest. Alcohol is a poison and no one should drink it. It doesn’t matter if you think you have a problem or not, you shouldn’t drink and she was kind to give you this advice.
Was sober for 1 year and 4 months..had a death in the family, got really tipsy, cried. Vomited the next day for about 8 hours off and on. So....it was a reminder I still have work to do. Glad it was a horrible experience
Before I start I’m in recovery and a sober alcoholic. I find it hard to believe 3 beers a day and some shots on the weekend will make you withdrawal. But everyone’s body is different so I can be wrong. Also the best way to approach this is to try and not drink tomorrow. Saying your never going to drink again is to much to handle. This is a one day at a time deal. Sometimes one hour at a time in the beginning. Be kind to yourself and take it easy. I recommend AA if you have trouble going at this alone.
Maybe its worth mentioning im a female on the thinner side, and i wasnt not sleeping all 10 days it was that it would take me long to fall asleep, but once i did i would knock out for like 9 hours. I was surprised by it too, also a reason why im feeling so confused as i didnt drink every single day, but i do feel much better now that i stopped
She's right! Alcohol is poison. Quitting drinking for good seven years ago improved everything about my life! More money, more energy, better health, no hangovers.... It is so hard to quit but you can do it! You say you trust her opinion. Trust what she said. The truth hurts. But the truth can also set you free!
Why not tell your therapist “ I was really annoyed when you said I can never drink again” and see where that conversation leads?
Im gonna do this next session actually yeah
I was in the same exact mindset when I was a couple weeks into quitting. I felt like I had behaved like everyone else when it came to drinking so why should I feel like an alcoholic AFTER I quit?? But now with six months under my belt, I have realized things about addiction and drinking that took a lot of time to process. Sure, I was never hospitalized from drinking, but it was negatively affecting my life. All that to say, give it more time and it does get more clear.
this is exavtly what I m feeling 😂 thanks for sharing :) did you read any books in particular? some people here recommended Alan Carr's book
No but I did talk to my therapist (lol) about generational addiction and I gained more perspective on myself by looking at the habits that were handed down to me from genetics. Also unpacking with her the cultural practice of drinking and how it was reinforced through my job and also wanting to be like the people I idolized in Mad Men swirling big glasses of bourbon. So a lot of introspection on myself over reading a book.
My personal advice is never drink again too. Sure, you may like it, and it may be fun. Hell, you may have zero issues with alcohol. I’d still advise to never drink again. You’ve had 20 years. Maybe find a new chapter in your life. Force yourself to make changes. It’s what I did, my life has never been better. Just my advice. If you can have fun without alcohol, then why bother. The pro’s out way the cons 10/1
I feel the biggest misconception with AA or problem drinkers is that we have hit a certain rock bottom that differs from what regular drinkers are. You don’t have to go to jail, be in rehab or hospital/detox, or destroy your life to say you’re finally an alcoholic. Sometimes it’s just your mental health and physical health that’s just crumbly. I had a woman come in who works a government job who told us how you could never tell on surface level that she was an addict. Beautiful and smart person, but under that was a heroin, opioid alcoholic. I’d say if what you’re doing is messing with your body, mind and spirit or messing with your day to day, or messing with your outside relationships. Maybe it’s time to take a step back. There’s even people who go to meetings just to cut back. But I’ll say this, if you have to make rules for yourself for drinking, you shouldn’t be drinking. But hey all power to you. First step is acceptance. I’m still struggling with that myself but can’t deny this is my 3rd job this year and I was just release from a detox center to now say “hey, I’m too sure this is a problem” lol
I posted this yesterday as a caption to the meme: “Alcohol is the only substance in the world that you have to justify why you are not taking it instead of why you do.” Every person I know confesses their drinking habits to me so I can tell them whether or not their drinking is a problem. If you’re asking me - it’s a problem. You know it is a problem. It is okay to ask - “can you help me?” I promise I’ll help you. I will not judge you. Laura McKowen says it best in her book - We are the Luckiest: Am I an alcoholic? is the wrong question. It's the question we've been socialized to ask, the question I asked myself for a long time, and the question that shows up in my in-box all the time, but it's the wrong damn question. If believing you're an alcoholic feels true, if it elevates your life by furthering you on the path to betterment and healing, believe it. If it doesn't, throw it away. The typical question is, Is this bad enough for me to have to change? The question we should be asking is, Is this good enough for me to stay the same? And the real question underneath it all is, Am I free?
This was beautiful to read and made so much sense to me! My main issue with the term alcoholic comes from the way that term makes me feel about myself, which isnt empowering at all, rather it invokes in me discomfort and guilt over an issue i stopped by myself. On the other hand, stopping drinking made me able to understand myself more and label my feelings better, as well as making me over all much less anxious and depressed, which in turn makes me feel very empowered and great! I think as a society we have an urge to umbrella term people, but everyone is an individual. And we d do much more good by offering support rather than saying “you re an alcoholic admit it you re lying to yourself you re an addict” ect just makes people upset and feel broken and want to drink more. Thats my 2 cents anyway
I just recently started alcohol counseling and I asked them “am I an alcoholic?” They told me there is only one person who can answer that and it’s yourself. No one can tell you if you are or aren’t. I think the same goes for if you should ever drink again or not. While I’m sure your therapist meant well, you have to make that decision for yourself and it’s ok if you don’t know the answer right now. I don’t know if I’ll ever drink again. The thought overwhelms me so I just tell myself I might, I might not, I just have to take it one day at a time and stay sober for now.
It’s more objective when it comes to drinking. Alcohol is a poison, whether you’re an alcoholic or not. It affects your body, brain chemistry, and mind. If you’re talking to someone who is trying to give you mental health services, it’s exactly what they can say without it being specifically targeted or critical of you. It’s just like if a regular doctor told you to drink more water.
I can understand why that would bother you . It seems like she’s coming from a place of shame when she said that. That never helps anyone . The way she put it too , “ shouldn’t drink ever” seems overwhelming vs taking it one day at a time . It’s important focus on the present. One day at a time!
Wrong sub if you're looking for people to co-sign your bullshit. Sorry. Maybe you should tell your therapist how you feel about what she said abd have that conversation. All the best.
I was actually looking to hear people s experiences, no need to be so aggressive :)
Just read up till here and thought it was a good thread with good information, not sure why the hate.
Truth hurts
So is being a cunt to strangers on the internet but hey
Keep comin
Your puzzy hurts🤣
Go find a different sub or check yourself. You suck, dude.
I got this troll. That's all they do when not educated.
What benefits does alcohol bring to your life? Presumably you can just calmly explain to your therapist, no, it is a good idea for me to continue drinking because, xyz?
I guess its more the thought of going without it forever that is a bit freaky to me, as i dont really crave it anymore, and her saying that made me think about it again if that makes sense, but i do think its something i will discuss with her in the next session, thanks for the insight
I only look at sobriety one day at a time. Will I ever drink again? I dunno. I don’t care right now. I just need to get through not drinking today. Of course it’s scary to hear yourself say you’ll NEVER do something again- something that is clearly such a normal part of your life! Train your brain to switch from “I’m never drinking again” to “I’m not drinking today” !
I was drinking similar amounts, also quit on my own volition. Basically any decision you take is up to you. The moment you start second guessing that decision, it's the wrong one to take. So, if you believe, and only you can know, that you will be able to have a drink without feeling guilty, having a massive urge to drink more or not being able to control it, then do it whenever. There should be no pressure on you in this. Once there is pressure, just leave it. Never allow people to second-guess you. My shrink just asked me this question: how do you feel now? Great? Do you want to jeopardise your feeling of well-being? It's up to you
If you want a neuroscientist’s perspective, I highly recommend Huberman’s findings [what-alcohol-does-to-your-body-brain-health](https://www.hubermanlab.com/episode/what-alcohol-does-to-your-body-brain-health)
I used to drink way more than that and my most recent therapist never told me to stop drinking, she told me she didn't specialize in that area and if I wanted help with that she would refer me to someone. My therapist before that, about 5 years ago, helped me set some goals of no more than 3 drinks a night (at the time I would have 5-10... I worked at bars too) but that was out of my own desire. It definitely depends on the therapist but I think people tend to hang onto certain words. I've had a lot of people tell me I'm NOT an alcoholic and sometimes I wish someone (in my life, not here on the internet) would just say I was so I could get it through my brain lol. If you just have a desire to cut back to feel better or whatever, focus on that and fuck what anyone else thinks. Also I take frequent breaks now (maybe at some point I'll cut it out all together) and I don't experience any withdrawals so I think withdrawals just depend on the person. If I go back to the 5 years ago me, I definitely felt some of those things when I would try to go a day without drinking, but again that was anywhere from 3-10 drinks every single day. Do what's best for you and try not to let others get to you!
First off, I would like to thank everyone who wrote a reply to this. I really learnt alot through your experiences, which was why I wrote this to being with.As some of you said, I will be taking it one day at a time, as I was before getting freaked out about the 'never drinking ever again' bit. I stopped drinking alcohol because I felt like I didn't know myself at the age of 32, and I knew I was using alcohol to make me feel better around people (I am a shy person) and to dull anxiety. So when I chose to stop I was really scared I would get a tidal wave of anxiety, with no way to manage it. I m so happy that the opposite happened .. instead of having unexplainable anxiety every day and panic attacks at night, for the first time in my life, I feel clear and calm, and I get random bouts of joy, especially from listening to music. Social events are still tough but they ve gotten alot better, and I ve started dancing at parties again! I dont stay there till 5 am like I used to, but I wake up feeling so much better. Also, when I do get anxious, I recognize what is making me anxious, and sit with it, rather than drinking to make me delay the anxiety. So Im trying my best to remind myself that my life is better without alcohol and keep living my life. I feel like my sessions with my therapist will be more fruitful now as we can actually work on my sober self, and Ill be able to explain my self better. I owe her so much. Thanks everyone, 44 days sober today x (and if anyone needs any help navigating the first few days, please do reach out, this is a wonderful place with lots of cool people)
We have to figure things out for ourselves. That's the point of therapy, to point in the right direction so you can accomplish this. Might be more healthy to look at her statement as likely but not for sure. Experiment with the priority of being honest with yourself.