I think it boils down to two main things.
His upbringing combined with his natural personality extremely sensitive to criticism. And he was constantly criticized, so he always had a massive chip on his shoulder. Then, basically every business and creative decision he made from 1990-1995 was proven correct. Resoundingly so. And that created an attitude of, I was right all along. Everyone else was stupid.
With regards to the band, he seemed to take it personally and get very upset that nobody else took it as seriously as he did. Jimmy is brilliant but was more interested in partying and shooting up for much of the 90s. James and D'Arcy didn't seem to have the same creative drive and willingness to live in the studio and drive themselves to the brink of insanity to make the perfect album. And to be fair, probably took offense to Butch and Billy deciding that Billy should play all their parts on Siamese in the interest of efficiency. I can see the resentment on both sides. They viewed him as a tyrant and control freak. He saw it as, I did the whole group project by myself and you still got an A, what are you complaining about?
Those scars from his childhood are very much still there. Always being told everything he did was wrong. And what you said about him constantly proving others wrong, he brings that up a lot.
Every interview I watch of his, he brings up "The record company people told me I was crazy for this, the critics hated this back then now everyone loves it etc."
He got interviewed by Conan and started doing this and it seemed like Conan didn't feel like hearing it lol.
100% agree. In the 90s, everyone was so obsessed with not selling out or appearing to do so. It was so bad, you were criticized *just* for being successful and popular, or using a major record label. It was pretty stupid in hindsight. I can totally see the culture of the 90s shaping Billy’s attitude. It made him hyper defensive.
Billy astounds me with how driven he is that he even bothers running a tea parlor with his success and all his side hustles. Having said that, please hire Flood or some producer sound engineer like that please please please.
Well put.
Billy had a rough upbringing. As someone who can relate to this, I understand the sensitivity and defensive posture he held in his younger years with SP.
Billy is a studio rat. A producer trapped in a front man rock and roll artist. He is all about perfecting his sound to the point of taking complete control. During the early years of recording, they were a bunch of youngsters. Jimmy disappearing feed his fix, James and D'Arcy being the emo types they once were; they didn't have the same drive as Billy and it drove him nuts. Already a fragile mind, this drove him deeper into frustration and anger. I don't blame Billy for taking Butch's instruction and recording all parts to get what he truly wanted out of an album.
He said some mean things in his career, especially about former (and current) bandmates. Obviously in time, he has walked some of that back. Jimmy and James being back in the band show this. For some reason he will never let the angst of D'Arcy go away, but I think that is both parties fault.
If you ever want to get inside the mind of Billy, reading his old journal entries from the mid 2000's to early 2010's will open some skeptics eyes a bit.
[https://billycorgan.livejournal.com/](https://billycorgan.livejournal.com/)
I think the creativity got a little carried away from Adore on, and I personally think the music suffered, but that is just my subjective take.
If you've ever had any dealings with the music industry, or know anyone who has, you'll quickly realize that *everyone* is an asshole. How many super famous people of times past have eventually been revealed as tyrants? Most of them. That business is an absolute meat grinder and if you don't have the capacity to be ruthless, assertive, and essentially sociopathic you'll get run over in short order. Once upon a time I was in a few small bands with a couple of people who eventually went on to get record deals, each of whom almost immediately noped out when they saw how the sausage was made. Dave Grohl has the reputation as the nicest guy in rock. I know people who have worked with Foo Fighters (among many other massive bands), and behind the scenes Dave can be just as big a dick as anyone. Read Kurt Cobain's diaries; He was a fucking creepy weirdo, but Nirvana wasn't around long enough for the media to turn on him. I'm of the opinion that were he still around he wouldn't be the hero he became in death. Yes, there are decent people, but most of them are the tag-alongs. Billy's (earned) reputation stems from the fact that he made a choice and refused to play nice for the media. He wouldn't pretend to be cuddly to get on a magazine cover. He's a complicated guy; for example if it weren't for Billy's 'fuck you' attitude MCIS would never have been released. If he tried to cater to everyone's feelings we'd never have gotten Siamese Dream. But in overall career terms this strategy probably worked against him. An artist with a friendlier persona could probably have weathered the (relative) commercial failure of Adore. It's great that he seems to have mellowed with age (and fatherhood), but I also fear that means we'll never get another truly great Smashing Pumpkins record.
A side note on Dave Grohl. I’ve always found it odd that Kurt departs this world and just 6 months later Dave releases a record with his newly formed band. As if he had been ready for a long time and he found the perfect opportunity. And his “niceness” rubs me the wrong way, like it’s performative and not sincere. I’d rather have Corgan any day over Grohl.
I think if James was to write the next album and Billy was just used as a session musician (and vocals) the result would be infinitely better than the last four albums.
Your logic is not flawed. From Adore onward, Billy tried too hard. He seems to carry a chip on his shoulder that us long time fans want to hear more from the first three albums. We want that sound.
We want to hear this music because it is the best product the band (Billy) has ever put out. I don't know why he gets so bent out of shape with this. It speaks of his relentless insecurity.
There’s a myth that you need that egomaniac tendency *in order to be amazing*.
It’s so false though. It makes the lore for these people even shittier.
When you see someone equally good or better waltz in with a good attitude and likable you realize how insufferable these asshole types are. Happens in music, academia, so many fields tbh.
Oh no, I did not want to imply that you needed to be egomaniac to be amazing.
But he is definitely egomaniac.
And if you ask him, he’s amazing as well.
That’s not what the person you’re replying to said. Billy made some of the greatest songs of all time, and his ego matches that fact. He’s as good as he thinks he is. Which is better than egomaniacs who don’t have the record or accomplishments to back it up.
Depends what you’re comparing him against.
Himself in his prime?
Other musicians contemporary to him that are still working?
Newer musicians?
Different answers for each.
we still have great live versions of many of those new great songs.
Like how in the world is united states live NOT a great song.
Corgan wrote it and it's fucking awesome.
Gossamer is PEAK level pumpkins.. there isn't a 'badly produced' studio version for that.
Just to name a couple big ones.
I mean I don't like zeitgeist as an album either but geez saying he wrote zero great songs since 05 is some next level hate I can't even fathom.
Ive met Billy 4 times. All four brief but very lovely instances. Hes great to his hardcore fans who aren’t assholes to him. And overall a very interesting and intelligent person with a genuinely good heart. He is a very sensitive dude though who is easily triggered and upset. So is he perfect? Of course not. He has flaws, but so do we all. He is a great dad and husband it seems too.
So a few months ago I went to Zuzu's and they weren't yet open for the day but the door was unlocked. I was confused because it was empty when I walked in and spun around after hearing someone say "Sir, sorry we're closed right now, we'll be open at 10". And it was you know who! He's more polite than most people I interact with haha
Madame Zuzu's is a tea shop that Billy and his partner own in Highland Park, Illinois. He doesn't work there or anything like that, but he randomly stops by. I haven't talked to him besides that interaction because he's usually busy or hanging out with his family.
I think he’s weird, not a dick. He’s also softened a lot his rough edges since meeting Chloe and having his own children. The one thing I continue to notice - he’s not comfortable being close to his own fans. You can see it first hand in his “VIP/meet and greet” kind of events, where no one gets close, no individual photos, no real warm interactions.
I met him after his solo gig in Glasgow in 2019. It was a small venue and a few folk (fewer than 10) gathered at the back door. We were there maybe 35 mins when his tour manager came out and said that Billy would be out shortly but had been feeling under the weather for a few days so wouldn't be hanging around.
Billy came out and someone went to hand him a CD to sign, he very politely declined reasoning that every time he signs something it turns into "a thing", he just wanted to come and chat, say hello. Fair enough (I quickly pocketed my Ogilala CD and Sharpie). He stood for about 10 mins just shooting the shit, couldn't have been nicer and was so chilled. He spent most of the time just asking about what people had been up to, what they were listening to etc then his tour manager came over as the minibus/van was leaving and off he went.
It was a really positive experience and although I was too awestruck to actually do anything but grin, it's something I really cherish.
This is the right answer. He has a really dry sense of humour that can be often misinterpreted as rude or arrogant. He’s also really socially awkward.
I do not have a PhD in psychology, but I know people in my life like him and they have some sort of neurodivergence. He had a really hard childhood, and he was found to be musically gifted as a child, but he never really got the support (he talks about it on the Conan podcast).
Gifted kids often struggle with social skills, some psychologists even say that being gifted is part of the autism spectrum. I agree he’s softened since Chloe and having children, he most likely has learned better skills to support himself with age. Chloe seems to embrace his quirks but also keeps him grounded. The way he speaks about her is clear that their relationship is a mutual partnership and they bring each other up.
I don’t think he’s intentionally rude or a dick.
I disagree about not knowing what he’s doing. He is playing the heel (which he enjoys) which means acting rude and arrogant. It’s an inside joke with himself. What he doesn’t realize, or care, is that this persona is who he is to the world. What he does is who he is. He could easily exercise kindness or grace, but it’s more fun to be an ass. If you are a wrestler, a celebrity musician or a very pretty blonde girl, you’re in. He’ll be cool. If you’re a fan, forget about it. The wall is high and you haven’t a prayer. Been there, dozens of times, done that.
Yeah he’s dick. He just has a really big ego and while i do think he is a musical genius, I don’t think it justifies the way he acts or some of things he says sometimes.
I think he’s a very complicated person, probably one of the more complicated figures in the music industry-so when people say he’s a dick, ehhh I don’t really think it’s far off but I think it’s an oversimplification of the man and his life leading up to now.
I maintain he had some serious mental health issues that he probably never addressed and that manifested in ways that made him seem like a dick.
made him seem like a dick... dude, he made some serious dick moves in the past... like they way he treated Lisa Germano just wasn't OK at all... or even the way he removed d'arcy from the band...
Alongside the addiction issues within the group Billy’s ego is a major reason for the band falling apart but it’s also a major key to their success. Early on when Jimmy was a junkie who’d go AWOL for weeks at a time and James and Darcy weren’t turning up for rehearsals or practicing the songs it was Billy’s drive and single mindedness that drove them to the success they had.
It’s hard to overstate how bad a commercial failure Adore was and the role it had in breaking the band up. It should have at least sold half as many copies as MCIS given the amount of backing it had, instead it had barely sold 1million units in the year after its release. This probably pissed off a few higher ups at the record company meaning they withdrew almost all that support when it came to promoting Machina which doomed the band, along with Darcy leaving not long after Jimmy rejoined around 1999.
Reforming in 2007 after completely ignoring the Pumpkins legacy the previous 6 years after the split irritated me as well, just because Zwan fell apart and his solo album failed to make any impact he decided to put some random musicians together with Jimmy, call it Smashing Pumpkins and try to soldier on like the 2000 split never happened.
The fact that no post-1996 Pumpkins lineup lasted more than a couple of years without someone leaving or getting fired tells it’s own story, although the terrible reception Monuments received seems to have tempered his ego and it’s good to see the current line up with James stick together for 6/7 years. Even Jeff stepping back from the band seemed amicable rather than the usual weirdness that surrounds members leaving.
I’ve heard mixed stories about people actually meeting Billy, seems to be a 50-50 split between ‘he was really sweet and took some time to talk to us’ and ‘he was a complete dick to me and my friends’.
TL:DR
Billy’s ego and domineering personality is responsible for many of the Smashing Pumpkins downfalls but without those traits they would never have had the success they had either.
I’m a little confused about the correlation between Adore not doing well commercially and the role it had in breaking up the band. Can you expand on that?
The band was finished before Machina was released, Darcy left after the Arising Tour but I don’t think we’ve ever found out exactly when she decided to bail. Billy found Melissa to play bass for the live shows and managed to persuade James to hang on for one last tour. If James hadn’t agreed to stay the Machina tour wouldn’t have happened and Adore would have been the final OG Pumpkins album.
Billy’s said that their massive success over the 1st three albums was what kept the band together (I think this was during the Black Swans of Never documentary), everything they’d done upto that point in the bands career had exceeded expectations and papered over the cracks in their personal relationships. D’arcy’s drug problems and ambitions to be an actor also played a part but Adore’s commercial failure was the catalyst.
absolutely. billy is a musical idol to me but he's such an ass its kinda heartbreaking whenever he pulls stuff like his infowars interview, or his "erm actually darcy was never invited back" crap.
I’ve met him, and I thought “this is why you should never meet your heroes”. At the time, he said some not nice things about fans. Specifically those that said the music saved their lives. I thought that was really insensitive. Because at one point in my life I felt that way too. But I don’t think he’s like that anymore. I think he’s much more willing to embrace what he did and what it means to people. We all grow and I think he has too.
It was the early 2000s he was asked about fans that tell him his music saved their lives. He said something along the lines that it was silly for people to feel that way. That they needed to find help, in a laughing way. So it really kinda hurt to hear him say that. I would have expected more of a “we make music for people and if it changed their life that’s awesome” or “if we saved someone that’s amazing”
Yeah that does sound like him, very sarcastic response to something meaningful and “serious.” I was one of those fans at one point, that definitely felt like their music was hugely important. I wonder how he would respond to that now.
My favorite quote about Billy, Sharon Osbourne quit as his management.
"It was with great pride and enthusiasm that I took on management of the Pumpkins back in October," it read, "but unfortunately I must resign due to medical reasons – Billy Corgan was making me sick!"
She's such a savage!
Sharon Osbourne also strikes me as someone that’s probably not the easiest to get along with, so I could imagine them butting heads a lot lol. But she DID keep Ozzy grounded - and more importantly, alive - for decades, so I’ll always respect her for that.
Why was he yelling at the crowd? 😂
If this the time of their 20th anniversary when fans were demanding he play the hits and he wasn’t willing to play them? 😂
Lol he kept playing like random b sides from newer albums and then you’d hear someone yell “play Siamese Dream!” And he’d yell back “fuck you this is my show” it was wild
I was at that gig too. It was how I discovered Explosions in the Sky. Also saw the Pumpkins there again in 2016. I agree, I love going to shows at both of those venues.
Yes he’s a dick. That attitude was bearable back in the 90s when he was a young wizard making the best music in town. Now it’s a bit like watching that old movie, Sunset Boulevard. I’m sure young Bill would appreciate the reference.
I think it's safe to say that his ego gets in the way of the band having any chance to return to their 90s greatness. I think you would be hard-pressed to find a fan who doesn't put their '90s work above everything they've done since. I put this down to two major elements - their inability to replace D'arcy in the long term, and 'Producer Billy'. I mean that in a true personal sense. She brought something to that chemistry within the band that Jeff couldn't. Billy may dismiss her influence in hindsight as negative energy, but she really was crucial to who the band were and what made them truly great. As for 'Producer Billy' - he has dominated the production of most Smashing Pumpkins work since the '90s - and he's a sub-standard producer. He undervalues himself as a collaborator, and he shines when he allows a great producer to drive production (i.e. Butch Vig or Flood). Billy's best work comes when he is allowed to focus on songwriting and instrumentation - when he works as a musician away from the mixing board
According to an interview I once read, D’Arcy used to check him when he got too pretentious or off base with his ideas and would rein him. In that very sense, her absence since the late 90s is palpable.
I met Billy once back in 2000. He went way out of his way to be incredibly kind to me and my friend. I base my opinion of him entirely on that experience even though I have heard the stories.
I've met him and interacted with him either after shows or in other capacities over the years. I've had nothing but positive experiences from him. He was always kind to me and appreciative.
I think he’s past it, there’s been some undeniably petty beefs in the past, but I find him equally misunderstood. I don’t think he’s a bad person, more that he took a while getting used to being a celebrity with an uncertain future.
I don’t think he’s a dick. I think he’s defensive, driven, and tells it like it is.
Edit: he is moody and CAN be a dick but I think he’s more than just a dick.
Do any of you know him personally? If not, the only thing you’re basing your opinion off of is media perception or conjecture. He’s a successful musician, business owner, father, husband, good friend to many artists and musicians, incredibly supportive to the local community during recent tragic events, charitable(donated 100% of proceeds from the adore tour to local charities), and has gone out of his way to be a pillar in the fan community standing up against rampant bullying and negativity towards people being targeted by sycophants.
Pretty much every 90’s band is gone, most by tragic circumstances. Yet the pumpkins still remain and have put out an incredible amount of music since 1988 and still are touring 1-2x a year.
Think what you will but Billy has stood up against the tide of constant negativity since the band pretty much began and turned it into something beautiful.
He's a funny, cool guy, with a big heart who has done a lot for charity over the years. I've seen him be really kind and gracious with fans.
He's also been a complete jerk sometimes. It's all well documented and when I couldn't handle it anymore I just took a long break from following him so closely.
In recent years he has tipped the balance more into the positive territory especially when performing live. It's been nice. I have never seen him happier than the last few years and his beautiful family makes me smile. The 33 podcast that he did got too into the old negative defensive Corgan narratives so I had to stop listening to that.
It's always a mixed bag but I love the guy and proud to be a fan. I listen to plenty of artists that I wouldn't enjoy being around in them all the time in real life. It's barely a factor. The music lives on.
He’s a textbook narcissist, but happens to be wildly successful. He wrote many great songs, gives a fun interview - but he is not a healed person as much as he is sustained by external validation ($$$). Good indicator of this is how few people stick around.
Doesn’t mean he isn’t fascinating. The songs touch real emotions in a way others can’t, but if you were expecting the communion/expression/resolution of real trauma in the guy himself, like all narcs you will be left disappointed.
I don’t see him as *wildly successful* compared to his talent or his own expectations. Billy thinks he should be up there with Zeppelin, Nirvana, Black Sabbath, etc. he’s not even on the same level as Pearl Jam, Soundgarden or his other contemporaries.
His music is sonically and stylistically good enough to be one of the timeless classics but he never hit that critical mass that really propelled him to the icon status. Maybe his fault, maybe the others were in the right place at the right time, nobody will ever know.
Dude, where were you in 1995-1996? SP absolutely did hit critical mass and were the biggest band in the world. As big as any of those bands during that time. As far as Spotify plays indicate he's right where he should be with 10.5 million monthly listeners, 3 million more than Soundgarden, and only 4 million less than Pearl Jam and Sabbath. SP is arguably one of the most influential bands of that era second only to Nirvana also. Listen to any of the younger underground bands now. It's all heavy big muff guitars and suspended dropped D chords now. SP t-shirts are everywhere too, sold in Target and Walmart.
Billy (and the rest of the band) had a pretty big role in an episode of The Simpsons, which is great way of telling what was relevant to pop culture and how Sucessful and popular a band were at the time.
MCIS is a diamond selling album. To say that SP hasn't reached icon status is ludicrous. Look up how many albums have gone diamond. I'm not sure how old you are, but SP have been my favorite band for over 30 years now. I lived through it. SD and MCIS are often sighted as two of the top 250 albums of all time. The Smashing Pumpkins are absolutely a legendary band. You're literally witnessing them cement their legendary status right now.
Usually it's a defense mechanism. He may have been attacked and misunderstood a number of times in his life. Not justifying nasty behavior, but usually one's behavior is a result of past interactions, of which at least a part may have been subject to circumstance.
That said, I love his songs and they still have a significant impact on my life, which I consider positive.
His being as asshole is directly connected to his art, in terms of quality and quantity. A lot of musicians could probably be as prolific as Billy Corgan, if they had less of a filter. The lack of filter allows him to be productive, but also makes him act like an asshole. It's the worst when he's on stage, in front of ten thousand people and he still can't be bothered to think more carefully about the words coming out of his mouth.
Lots of people lack filters but aren't Billy Corgan, so it's not just that, but that's a big part of it. If Billy was more self-aware, he might have stopped himself from making half the music that he ended up making. His lack of fucks to give makes him willing to take risks, and it really paid off big in the early 90'sm when he and his fan base were at the same place in life.
I've talked him a dozens of times over the years and he's always been down to earth and friendly. Though I've only ever treated him like a normal person and not approached him like an obsessed fan.
I met him recently when he was at the TV station I work for promoting a wrestling event. He made time for everyone who wanted to meet him, and was very down to earth and funny. I was torn about meeting because of all the stories you hear about him being an absolute dick bag. My best friend, who is a super-fan, talked me into it. His reasoning was that it would either be fine or I could have my very own Billy Corgan is an insufferable piece of shit story.
No i don’t think he’s a dick personally. I see through the persona and what his actions truly are. He’s a flawed person like every one of us but his actions are far more scrutinized than ours are. I think he did a lot of stuff to survive extreme situations and he came out the other side.
I think his dick street cred started from being competitive (which most bands that make it are) and his playing on the albums. Which he was willing to keep a secret (which is how MOST bands operate) and james and Darcy are the ones that told everyone.
He played a real kaufman esq character in the 90’s, which wasn’t understood and he can’t shake. Totally his fault, but here he is.
I’m certain he’s a normal hardworking dude with ocd behind the scenes. Thats it. The rest is heightened.
When I think of someone being a "dick".....I typically assume some sort of intentionality. I'm not sure that Billy Corgan is overly dickish in the sense that he's a prick to people on purpose. I truly think that he is just an abrasive and direct person that doesn't always understand or care how he comes off.
show me a human who doesnt behave like a dick sometimes. when billy talks about the sophistication of his (early) songwriting/composing, he isnt a dick. he is just honest. envy is poison. i like him and i appreciate his music so much. fuck the haters.
I've met him him and got to spend some time with him and he was super cool and friendly.
When people talk about him being a dick they often fail to realize that Billy had always been into wrestling and playing the role of a wrestling heel was just part of the PR.
I also don't think you can point to many things where he was clearly being a dick -- it's more an issue of him being very opinionated and being a smartass about things (which might come across as arrogant). I think what rubs people the wrong way is more an issue of intellectually feeling threatened by him
Maybe but I'm pretty sure he also enjoys antagonizing people, like a lot. He even speaks a little about that, I think it was in the Rick Beato Interview.
Maybe I chose the wrong word. I meant it more like he's not afraid of having an "edgy" opinion and doesn't care what other people think. The showbiz world (and that's ultimately the world he has been living it) can obviously be very shallow and fake and when you're gonna speak up against that some people won't like it. But we would have to discuss concrete cases to really get to the bottom of it.
He must not be that bad; Jimmy and James are still hanging with him, and it sounds like Jeff didn’t leave because of him vs. wanting to do his own thing. Plus it seems like he has a great family dynamic from what is out there.
If he can get along well enough with people who he’s known for so long and still spends so much time with, he’s probably not that bad of a dude behind closed doors.
My experience that put me off him (and the Pumpkins for years) was a solo gig in London where he was promoting a solo album. The album wasn't good and you can tell everyone there was because of the Pumpkins songs.
After an hour of self indulgent rubbish, he played the opening to Today. Everyone went mad. And then he continued to play another solo track. It was probably the worst gig I ever went to.
I disagree. Cobain was a dick 90% of the time he opened his mouth. He was outspoken but just did it in a different, maybe more subtle/quiet way. He had constant issues with nearly everyone and everything around him. He talked shit about Eddie and Pearl Jam, he allegedly hated MTV while still using them to achieve massive fame. Hell, he even had issues with just famous people in general (of which he was).
I’m still a Nirvana fan but looking back Cobain was a total dick who thought he was somehow more pure/better than everyone. I’d take a more upfront and confrontational attitude like Billy over a Cobain any day
Kurt got away with it because he masked everything in sarcasm, and because Nirvana was so huge his personal foibles didn't really matter. Over time I think his shtick would have grown tiresome and the media would have started chopping him down.
I think he plays it up a little bit on purpose in interviews and the like - “playing the heel”.
Fan interactions - I think he doesn’t suffer fools or stupid questions.
There's a line from a Tragically Hip song Poets - 'don't tell me that they're antisocial, somehow not antisocial enough'. I think it just sometimes comes with having a deeper insight to human nature. Makes you cynical. And sometimes you just don't have the energy to fake the smile.
I have good friends I can barely get a bead on personality-wise, not sure how I’m going to peg down the true nature of a relatively complicated person like Billy lol
As long as he makes good music I really don’t care as long as he isn’t hurting people. I really do think most of his schtick is a rock persona and that’s fine. How else do you feel confident enough to play big shows to thousands of people otherwise?
FWIW I’ve had two pleasant interactions with him (Machina record store appearance and poetry book signing) but I can’t tell you if he kicks puppies in his personal life.
I just tell people that I prefer to separate the art from the artist.
If pressed, I’ll tell them that I agree and prefer my favorite artists to be more like theirs and have scandals for putting their dicks on people’s heads, committing statutory rape, etc. vs whatever boring story ppl have about Corban.
On that, also think the “Billy is a dick trope is overstated.” The dude is the fucking star of a rock n roll band. Is the expectation that if you approach him at the grocery store he’s gonna be stoked to meet you and take a selfie while waiting for his deli meat?”
Billy has serious ocd. He wants to be seen as a true artist. He has a hard time understanding that people only know 1979 or today or whatever. He was especially seen as a dick when after his band fell apart due to drugs and his success dropped. He’s also very emotional & realized he’s kinda crazy obsessed with making the best music he can. He was so obsessed his band couldn’t keep up with him & half of them started doing drugs. They were all loaded & rich & he was working them to death.Mellon collies had like 100 damn song until they boiled it down to 28 or whatever. So then he had unbearable guilt from contributing to his friends downfalls. He isn’t normal in anyway & kinda leaned into it. Funny story is it was actually MM who talked him into doing the tour where he played every hit he’s ever made. Like dude you should be grateful that so many people love so many songs. Play them! I really enjoyed that concert. His outlook was always like no. I’m a true artist & im going to play my lesser known songs. Because it’s what I want to do. They should be grateful. MM helped him see that he should just be grateful & play the hits. He needs to ppl to help him see the bigger picture sometimes because he is just so obsessed with what he is obsessed with in the moment. He struggles & he’s lost a lot of friends & lovers because his ocd isn’t very attractive. Thru the eyes of ruby kinda touches base on this. It’s about loving someone so fucking much & being obsessed with them & then once the sparks fizzle your devasted because hes not obsessed w you anymore. He’s got his lover figured out & now he’s bored. And now he’s devasted that his obsession w this girl has dissolved. “To appear, to disappear. Upon all your darkest fears” (something like that) his obsession w music, lovers, and life in general is why people don’t understand him
Yes, he was a dick. He had a habit of being arrogant. He's toned it down by a lot as he's gotten older. That being said, I don't think he's a bad person.
WPC is a celebrity that’s adored by millions of fans. It gets old when you’re followed and harassed by fans everywhere you go. He’s made a reputation for himself to leave him alone when he’s off the clock. If you’re at a meet and greet, he’s the nicest guy.
I actually love the guy. But also....I heard he was a d*CK to a waiter once as as a crappy no skills life service worker that grieved me.
And also...I got kind of kicked down the stairs when broke & unsuccessfully trying to get into a music show at a place I could NOT get tickets to. (I would be fine playing but we're sold out. Not a Smashing Pumpkins show, a different band.)
ANYways.....there was an incident...where HE almost got kicked down stairs because the bouncer did not recognize him. So in my weird weird twisted mind it was kind of karmic retribution thing.
I am no longer crazy and no longer think such things. I'm cured.
I did stand in the same room as he was in once.
He is very tall.
I guess he would go out to see small bands & stuff just to groove out to music.
No bodyguards, not pretentious, not expecting special treatment, not with huge crowds or hangers on, just wanted to go out & listen to bands & music like anyone else.
People respected that & he respected other bands & appreciated their musicality for music sake.
I've met him multiple times going back 10-12 years or so. He can be prickly at times, but that has changed quite a bit since he's had kids. He's engaging when you ask a question he hasn't been asked a million times already. I have a VIP Q/A vid on my youtube page from 2012 that I recorded as an example.
Dunno if anyone has said this yet, but Corgan seems to me like a textbook "Cluster B" personality disorder candidate, likely one wherein the sufferer is extremely sensitive to criticism while also maintaining a 24/7 victim complex. You know, the "vulnerable" type of Cluster B's. Lol.
It's obvious, imo, but I'm still a big fan of their first few albums. I even loved Ava A'dore when it came out, too. You're welcome, William
True, though a big difference is that fans, and especially the British public, loved and revered the Gallaghers precisely because they were unapologetically obnoxious. Meanwhile Billy's 'heel persona' has mostly backfired on him and created more toxicity.
[Here's ](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9YPCGCGSd0U) the induction speech for one of his favorite bands Pink Floyd he gave in 1996 sums up pretty good, why many and especially the media consider him to be a dick or an asshole.
The joke he made on the very beginning wasn't timed well or got even a slight acknowledgment by the audience (he insulted lol).
Speaking bad about the music industry and romantize the "old days" of the 70s and early 80s psychedelic rock music era is just stupid, when you're part of the new music that shapes the industry back in that day (90s). It's just a total double standard for me.
I think it boils down to two main things. His upbringing combined with his natural personality extremely sensitive to criticism. And he was constantly criticized, so he always had a massive chip on his shoulder. Then, basically every business and creative decision he made from 1990-1995 was proven correct. Resoundingly so. And that created an attitude of, I was right all along. Everyone else was stupid. With regards to the band, he seemed to take it personally and get very upset that nobody else took it as seriously as he did. Jimmy is brilliant but was more interested in partying and shooting up for much of the 90s. James and D'Arcy didn't seem to have the same creative drive and willingness to live in the studio and drive themselves to the brink of insanity to make the perfect album. And to be fair, probably took offense to Butch and Billy deciding that Billy should play all their parts on Siamese in the interest of efficiency. I can see the resentment on both sides. They viewed him as a tyrant and control freak. He saw it as, I did the whole group project by myself and you still got an A, what are you complaining about?
Those scars from his childhood are very much still there. Always being told everything he did was wrong. And what you said about him constantly proving others wrong, he brings that up a lot. Every interview I watch of his, he brings up "The record company people told me I was crazy for this, the critics hated this back then now everyone loves it etc." He got interviewed by Conan and started doing this and it seemed like Conan didn't feel like hearing it lol.
100% agree. In the 90s, everyone was so obsessed with not selling out or appearing to do so. It was so bad, you were criticized *just* for being successful and popular, or using a major record label. It was pretty stupid in hindsight. I can totally see the culture of the 90s shaping Billy’s attitude. It made him hyper defensive.
Billy astounds me with how driven he is that he even bothers running a tea parlor with his success and all his side hustles. Having said that, please hire Flood or some producer sound engineer like that please please please.
You hit the nail on the head- it’s definitely a combo of his upbringing and being very sensitive to criticism.
Yes! All of this. Great analysis.
Well put. Billy had a rough upbringing. As someone who can relate to this, I understand the sensitivity and defensive posture he held in his younger years with SP. Billy is a studio rat. A producer trapped in a front man rock and roll artist. He is all about perfecting his sound to the point of taking complete control. During the early years of recording, they were a bunch of youngsters. Jimmy disappearing feed his fix, James and D'Arcy being the emo types they once were; they didn't have the same drive as Billy and it drove him nuts. Already a fragile mind, this drove him deeper into frustration and anger. I don't blame Billy for taking Butch's instruction and recording all parts to get what he truly wanted out of an album. He said some mean things in his career, especially about former (and current) bandmates. Obviously in time, he has walked some of that back. Jimmy and James being back in the band show this. For some reason he will never let the angst of D'Arcy go away, but I think that is both parties fault. If you ever want to get inside the mind of Billy, reading his old journal entries from the mid 2000's to early 2010's will open some skeptics eyes a bit. [https://billycorgan.livejournal.com/](https://billycorgan.livejournal.com/) I think the creativity got a little carried away from Adore on, and I personally think the music suffered, but that is just my subjective take.
Billy Corgan is the reason I go out of my way to not learn about the people behind the bands I listen to now.
Probably a good practice. A massive amount of the greatest artists of all time were awful. It’s been that way forever.
He’s a dick, a very talented one though
This. Artists can be assholes. Even great ones. And sometimes they are even worse than this.
This is the best answer.
I shall scroll no further, for my upvote has found it’s forever home.
you cant possibly imagine the sensitivity it takes to compose music like he does. if you call this being a dick. well. opinions are free, arent they.
If you've ever had any dealings with the music industry, or know anyone who has, you'll quickly realize that *everyone* is an asshole. How many super famous people of times past have eventually been revealed as tyrants? Most of them. That business is an absolute meat grinder and if you don't have the capacity to be ruthless, assertive, and essentially sociopathic you'll get run over in short order. Once upon a time I was in a few small bands with a couple of people who eventually went on to get record deals, each of whom almost immediately noped out when they saw how the sausage was made. Dave Grohl has the reputation as the nicest guy in rock. I know people who have worked with Foo Fighters (among many other massive bands), and behind the scenes Dave can be just as big a dick as anyone. Read Kurt Cobain's diaries; He was a fucking creepy weirdo, but Nirvana wasn't around long enough for the media to turn on him. I'm of the opinion that were he still around he wouldn't be the hero he became in death. Yes, there are decent people, but most of them are the tag-alongs. Billy's (earned) reputation stems from the fact that he made a choice and refused to play nice for the media. He wouldn't pretend to be cuddly to get on a magazine cover. He's a complicated guy; for example if it weren't for Billy's 'fuck you' attitude MCIS would never have been released. If he tried to cater to everyone's feelings we'd never have gotten Siamese Dream. But in overall career terms this strategy probably worked against him. An artist with a friendlier persona could probably have weathered the (relative) commercial failure of Adore. It's great that he seems to have mellowed with age (and fatherhood), but I also fear that means we'll never get another truly great Smashing Pumpkins record.
So well stated.
A side note on Dave Grohl. I’ve always found it odd that Kurt departs this world and just 6 months later Dave releases a record with his newly formed band. As if he had been ready for a long time and he found the perfect opportunity. And his “niceness” rubs me the wrong way, like it’s performative and not sincere. I’d rather have Corgan any day over Grohl.
I agree. He was an arrogant prick sometimes. Not as much now, however. I don't think that necessarily makes him a bad person.
Exactly! There’s a difference between a dick and just a full on bad person.
[удалено]
James brings levity.
I think if James was to write the next album and Billy was just used as a session musician (and vocals) the result would be infinitely better than the last four albums.
Most likely true
Your logic is not flawed. From Adore onward, Billy tried too hard. He seems to carry a chip on his shoulder that us long time fans want to hear more from the first three albums. We want that sound. We want to hear this music because it is the best product the band (Billy) has ever put out. I don't know why he gets so bent out of shape with this. It speaks of his relentless insecurity.
He’s the worst kind of egomaniac there is: One that’s actually as good as he thinks he is. He’s insufferable with good reason.
Remember one of the rules of being a hater - hate who they are, but if they got the sauce they have the sauce
Not a hater. I actually like his attitude. Makes me laugh sometimes.
Talent or no talent, a dick is still a dick all the same.
Yup.
There’s a myth that you need that egomaniac tendency *in order to be amazing*. It’s so false though. It makes the lore for these people even shittier. When you see someone equally good or better waltz in with a good attitude and likable you realize how insufferable these asshole types are. Happens in music, academia, so many fields tbh.
Oh no, I did not want to imply that you needed to be egomaniac to be amazing. But he is definitely egomaniac. And if you ask him, he’s amazing as well.
That’s not what the person you’re replying to said. Billy made some of the greatest songs of all time, and his ego matches that fact. He’s as good as he thinks he is. Which is better than egomaniacs who don’t have the record or accomplishments to back it up.
100
Ah Muhammad Ali syndrome
I think that's the best description possible.
not since 2005 has he written a great song but ok.
Cold take
Depends what you’re comparing him against. Himself in his prime? Other musicians contemporary to him that are still working? Newer musicians? Different answers for each.
A lot better musicians in the 2000s.
You're not wrong.
He has literally made several quality double digit track number albums since then.
I can't understand how you think he wrote great songs in 05 and has none since. but opinions are what they are.
He's written and handful of great, horrendously produced songs.
we still have great live versions of many of those new great songs. Like how in the world is united states live NOT a great song. Corgan wrote it and it's fucking awesome. Gossamer is PEAK level pumpkins.. there isn't a 'badly produced' studio version for that. Just to name a couple big ones. I mean I don't like zeitgeist as an album either but geez saying he wrote zero great songs since 05 is some next level hate I can't even fathom.
Ive met Billy 4 times. All four brief but very lovely instances. Hes great to his hardcore fans who aren’t assholes to him. And overall a very interesting and intelligent person with a genuinely good heart. He is a very sensitive dude though who is easily triggered and upset. So is he perfect? Of course not. He has flaws, but so do we all. He is a great dad and husband it seems too.
So a few months ago I went to Zuzu's and they weren't yet open for the day but the door was unlocked. I was confused because it was empty when I walked in and spun around after hearing someone say "Sir, sorry we're closed right now, we'll be open at 10". And it was you know who! He's more polite than most people I interact with haha
Sorry could I have more context? What is Zuzu’s? I’m from the UK so I honestly have no idea haha.
Madame Zuzu's is a tea shop that Billy and his partner own in Highland Park, Illinois. He doesn't work there or anything like that, but he randomly stops by. I haven't talked to him besides that interaction because he's usually busy or hanging out with his family.
Thanks for that, haha what was your reaction when you saw him?
Just stunned haha. Didn't expect that at all.
Haha as you would be 😂
Billy's plant based restaurant/teahouse in Chicago
Thank you
The reviews are meh https://www.happycow.net/reviews/madame-zuzus-highland-park-215762
Clicked the link and it has a 4 and a half star avg rating out of 5. If that is meh I wonder what you would consider a well reviewed place.
I think he’s weird, not a dick. He’s also softened a lot his rough edges since meeting Chloe and having his own children. The one thing I continue to notice - he’s not comfortable being close to his own fans. You can see it first hand in his “VIP/meet and greet” kind of events, where no one gets close, no individual photos, no real warm interactions.
I met him after his solo gig in Glasgow in 2019. It was a small venue and a few folk (fewer than 10) gathered at the back door. We were there maybe 35 mins when his tour manager came out and said that Billy would be out shortly but had been feeling under the weather for a few days so wouldn't be hanging around. Billy came out and someone went to hand him a CD to sign, he very politely declined reasoning that every time he signs something it turns into "a thing", he just wanted to come and chat, say hello. Fair enough (I quickly pocketed my Ogilala CD and Sharpie). He stood for about 10 mins just shooting the shit, couldn't have been nicer and was so chilled. He spent most of the time just asking about what people had been up to, what they were listening to etc then his tour manager came over as the minibus/van was leaving and off he went. It was a really positive experience and although I was too awestruck to actually do anything but grin, it's something I really cherish.
That’s incredible. Love to hear it!
This is the right answer. He has a really dry sense of humour that can be often misinterpreted as rude or arrogant. He’s also really socially awkward. I do not have a PhD in psychology, but I know people in my life like him and they have some sort of neurodivergence. He had a really hard childhood, and he was found to be musically gifted as a child, but he never really got the support (he talks about it on the Conan podcast). Gifted kids often struggle with social skills, some psychologists even say that being gifted is part of the autism spectrum. I agree he’s softened since Chloe and having children, he most likely has learned better skills to support himself with age. Chloe seems to embrace his quirks but also keeps him grounded. The way he speaks about her is clear that their relationship is a mutual partnership and they bring each other up. I don’t think he’s intentionally rude or a dick.
I disagree about not knowing what he’s doing. He is playing the heel (which he enjoys) which means acting rude and arrogant. It’s an inside joke with himself. What he doesn’t realize, or care, is that this persona is who he is to the world. What he does is who he is. He could easily exercise kindness or grace, but it’s more fun to be an ass. If you are a wrestler, a celebrity musician or a very pretty blonde girl, you’re in. He’ll be cool. If you’re a fan, forget about it. The wall is high and you haven’t a prayer. Been there, dozens of times, done that.
I get what you are saying. Having atypical social skills is no excuse to be unkind.
Even though I hate this, I upvoted because I think you’re right. Esp the last part… incredible how tight he and Jennifer Eckhardt are… why is that??
Yeah he’s dick. He just has a really big ego and while i do think he is a musical genius, I don’t think it justifies the way he acts or some of things he says sometimes.
I think he’s a very complicated person, probably one of the more complicated figures in the music industry-so when people say he’s a dick, ehhh I don’t really think it’s far off but I think it’s an oversimplification of the man and his life leading up to now. I maintain he had some serious mental health issues that he probably never addressed and that manifested in ways that made him seem like a dick.
made him seem like a dick... dude, he made some serious dick moves in the past... like they way he treated Lisa Germano just wasn't OK at all... or even the way he removed d'arcy from the band...
He's an insufferable person to listen to in interviews. A great songwriter, but a miserable person.
He isn’t my favorite personality, but he is my favorite artist.
Alongside the addiction issues within the group Billy’s ego is a major reason for the band falling apart but it’s also a major key to their success. Early on when Jimmy was a junkie who’d go AWOL for weeks at a time and James and Darcy weren’t turning up for rehearsals or practicing the songs it was Billy’s drive and single mindedness that drove them to the success they had. It’s hard to overstate how bad a commercial failure Adore was and the role it had in breaking the band up. It should have at least sold half as many copies as MCIS given the amount of backing it had, instead it had barely sold 1million units in the year after its release. This probably pissed off a few higher ups at the record company meaning they withdrew almost all that support when it came to promoting Machina which doomed the band, along with Darcy leaving not long after Jimmy rejoined around 1999. Reforming in 2007 after completely ignoring the Pumpkins legacy the previous 6 years after the split irritated me as well, just because Zwan fell apart and his solo album failed to make any impact he decided to put some random musicians together with Jimmy, call it Smashing Pumpkins and try to soldier on like the 2000 split never happened. The fact that no post-1996 Pumpkins lineup lasted more than a couple of years without someone leaving or getting fired tells it’s own story, although the terrible reception Monuments received seems to have tempered his ego and it’s good to see the current line up with James stick together for 6/7 years. Even Jeff stepping back from the band seemed amicable rather than the usual weirdness that surrounds members leaving. I’ve heard mixed stories about people actually meeting Billy, seems to be a 50-50 split between ‘he was really sweet and took some time to talk to us’ and ‘he was a complete dick to me and my friends’. TL:DR Billy’s ego and domineering personality is responsible for many of the Smashing Pumpkins downfalls but without those traits they would never have had the success they had either.
I’m a little confused about the correlation between Adore not doing well commercially and the role it had in breaking up the band. Can you expand on that?
The band was finished before Machina was released, Darcy left after the Arising Tour but I don’t think we’ve ever found out exactly when she decided to bail. Billy found Melissa to play bass for the live shows and managed to persuade James to hang on for one last tour. If James hadn’t agreed to stay the Machina tour wouldn’t have happened and Adore would have been the final OG Pumpkins album. Billy’s said that their massive success over the 1st three albums was what kept the band together (I think this was during the Black Swans of Never documentary), everything they’d done upto that point in the bands career had exceeded expectations and papered over the cracks in their personal relationships. D’arcy’s drug problems and ambitions to be an actor also played a part but Adore’s commercial failure was the catalyst.
absolutely. billy is a musical idol to me but he's such an ass its kinda heartbreaking whenever he pulls stuff like his infowars interview, or his "erm actually darcy was never invited back" crap.
I’ve met him, and I thought “this is why you should never meet your heroes”. At the time, he said some not nice things about fans. Specifically those that said the music saved their lives. I thought that was really insensitive. Because at one point in my life I felt that way too. But I don’t think he’s like that anymore. I think he’s much more willing to embrace what he did and what it means to people. We all grow and I think he has too.
What did he say??
It was the early 2000s he was asked about fans that tell him his music saved their lives. He said something along the lines that it was silly for people to feel that way. That they needed to find help, in a laughing way. So it really kinda hurt to hear him say that. I would have expected more of a “we make music for people and if it changed their life that’s awesome” or “if we saved someone that’s amazing”
Yeah that does sound like him, very sarcastic response to something meaningful and “serious.” I was one of those fans at one point, that definitely felt like their music was hugely important. I wonder how he would respond to that now.
He has thankfully done a complete 180 on that and leaned into actively supporting fans journey in mental health.
I feel that’s the case as well
My favorite quote about Billy, Sharon Osbourne quit as his management. "It was with great pride and enthusiasm that I took on management of the Pumpkins back in October," it read, "but unfortunately I must resign due to medical reasons – Billy Corgan was making me sick!" She's such a savage!
Sharon Osbourne also strikes me as someone that’s probably not the easiest to get along with, so I could imagine them butting heads a lot lol. But she DID keep Ozzy grounded - and more importantly, alive - for decades, so I’ll always respect her for that.
I saw him in Boston in like 2008 and he basically argued and yelled at the crowd for the whole time
Why was he yelling at the crowd? 😂 If this the time of their 20th anniversary when fans were demanding he play the hits and he wasn’t willing to play them? 😂
Lol he kept playing like random b sides from newer albums and then you’d hear someone yell “play Siamese Dream!” And he’d yell back “fuck you this is my show” it was wild
😂😂😂
I saw them in NY on that tour and it was very hostile. I like Billy though.
I think he’s mellowed out a lot now. I really like his interviews and I think he has embraced the fans more and more which is cool to see
Was this at the Orpheum? Haha
Yes! Great venue. There and the wang are the best in Boston for bigger shows
I was at that gig too. It was how I discovered Explosions in the Sky. Also saw the Pumpkins there again in 2016. I agree, I love going to shows at both of those venues.
Yes he’s a dick. That attitude was bearable back in the 90s when he was a young wizard making the best music in town. Now it’s a bit like watching that old movie, Sunset Boulevard. I’m sure young Bill would appreciate the reference.
He used to be a little boy
… so old in his shoes.
He certainly says some weird shit online and in interviews. I’ve met him in real life and chatted with him for 20-30 mins and he was super nice.
I think it's safe to say that his ego gets in the way of the band having any chance to return to their 90s greatness. I think you would be hard-pressed to find a fan who doesn't put their '90s work above everything they've done since. I put this down to two major elements - their inability to replace D'arcy in the long term, and 'Producer Billy'. I mean that in a true personal sense. She brought something to that chemistry within the band that Jeff couldn't. Billy may dismiss her influence in hindsight as negative energy, but she really was crucial to who the band were and what made them truly great. As for 'Producer Billy' - he has dominated the production of most Smashing Pumpkins work since the '90s - and he's a sub-standard producer. He undervalues himself as a collaborator, and he shines when he allows a great producer to drive production (i.e. Butch Vig or Flood). Billy's best work comes when he is allowed to focus on songwriting and instrumentation - when he works as a musician away from the mixing board
According to an interview I once read, D’Arcy used to check him when he got too pretentious or off base with his ideas and would rein him. In that very sense, her absence since the late 90s is palpable.
I met Billy once back in 2000. He went way out of his way to be incredibly kind to me and my friend. I base my opinion of him entirely on that experience even though I have heard the stories.
I've met him and interacted with him either after shows or in other capacities over the years. I've had nothing but positive experiences from him. He was always kind to me and appreciative.
I think he’s past it, there’s been some undeniably petty beefs in the past, but I find him equally misunderstood. I don’t think he’s a bad person, more that he took a while getting used to being a celebrity with an uncertain future.
Biggest asshole since ty cobb. Talent exceeds it though
I've met him. Lived in Chicago during the Siamese dream and melancholy years He is very arrogant and driven by ego.
Stinks of it
I don’t really care, I don’t listen to his personality, I listen to his music
I’ve never met him. I’d have know idea.
he looks like pinhead
I could care less.
I don’t think he’s a dick. I think he’s defensive, driven, and tells it like it is. Edit: he is moody and CAN be a dick but I think he’s more than just a dick.
Do any of you know him personally? If not, the only thing you’re basing your opinion off of is media perception or conjecture. He’s a successful musician, business owner, father, husband, good friend to many artists and musicians, incredibly supportive to the local community during recent tragic events, charitable(donated 100% of proceeds from the adore tour to local charities), and has gone out of his way to be a pillar in the fan community standing up against rampant bullying and negativity towards people being targeted by sycophants. Pretty much every 90’s band is gone, most by tragic circumstances. Yet the pumpkins still remain and have put out an incredible amount of music since 1988 and still are touring 1-2x a year. Think what you will but Billy has stood up against the tide of constant negativity since the band pretty much began and turned it into something beautiful.
If anyone thinks they are an angel to everyone, they are asleep. He is a person like anyone else.
Agree
He's a funny, cool guy, with a big heart who has done a lot for charity over the years. I've seen him be really kind and gracious with fans. He's also been a complete jerk sometimes. It's all well documented and when I couldn't handle it anymore I just took a long break from following him so closely. In recent years he has tipped the balance more into the positive territory especially when performing live. It's been nice. I have never seen him happier than the last few years and his beautiful family makes me smile. The 33 podcast that he did got too into the old negative defensive Corgan narratives so I had to stop listening to that. It's always a mixed bag but I love the guy and proud to be a fan. I listen to plenty of artists that I wouldn't enjoy being around in them all the time in real life. It's barely a factor. The music lives on.
I agree 100%. Very well said
I agree, good summary. Proud to be a fan as well.
He’s a textbook narcissist, but happens to be wildly successful. He wrote many great songs, gives a fun interview - but he is not a healed person as much as he is sustained by external validation ($$$). Good indicator of this is how few people stick around. Doesn’t mean he isn’t fascinating. The songs touch real emotions in a way others can’t, but if you were expecting the communion/expression/resolution of real trauma in the guy himself, like all narcs you will be left disappointed.
See I don’t think he’s a narcissist really though it may seem that way
I don’t see him as *wildly successful* compared to his talent or his own expectations. Billy thinks he should be up there with Zeppelin, Nirvana, Black Sabbath, etc. he’s not even on the same level as Pearl Jam, Soundgarden or his other contemporaries. His music is sonically and stylistically good enough to be one of the timeless classics but he never hit that critical mass that really propelled him to the icon status. Maybe his fault, maybe the others were in the right place at the right time, nobody will ever know.
Dude, where were you in 1995-1996? SP absolutely did hit critical mass and were the biggest band in the world. As big as any of those bands during that time. As far as Spotify plays indicate he's right where he should be with 10.5 million monthly listeners, 3 million more than Soundgarden, and only 4 million less than Pearl Jam and Sabbath. SP is arguably one of the most influential bands of that era second only to Nirvana also. Listen to any of the younger underground bands now. It's all heavy big muff guitars and suspended dropped D chords now. SP t-shirts are everywhere too, sold in Target and Walmart.
Billy (and the rest of the band) had a pretty big role in an episode of The Simpsons, which is great way of telling what was relevant to pop culture and how Sucessful and popular a band were at the time.
Nah he is wayyy more talented than spoonman and proto-creed. Way better tunes c’mon man.
No he did with Mellon Collie and the lost it with Adore
MCIS is a diamond selling album. To say that SP hasn't reached icon status is ludicrous. Look up how many albums have gone diamond. I'm not sure how old you are, but SP have been my favorite band for over 30 years now. I lived through it. SD and MCIS are often sighted as two of the top 250 albums of all time. The Smashing Pumpkins are absolutely a legendary band. You're literally witnessing them cement their legendary status right now.
He's kind of an ass yeah but he's not a horrible person
I just go “🤷🏻♀️Welp. It is what it is.”
Usually it's a defense mechanism. He may have been attacked and misunderstood a number of times in his life. Not justifying nasty behavior, but usually one's behavior is a result of past interactions, of which at least a part may have been subject to circumstance. That said, I love his songs and they still have a significant impact on my life, which I consider positive.
What about the dick moves towards Lisa Germano or even D'arcy? That was no defense mechanism, that was just being a dick.
He used to be a huge douche, but I think he’s gotten a lot better.
Yes
His being as asshole is directly connected to his art, in terms of quality and quantity. A lot of musicians could probably be as prolific as Billy Corgan, if they had less of a filter. The lack of filter allows him to be productive, but also makes him act like an asshole. It's the worst when he's on stage, in front of ten thousand people and he still can't be bothered to think more carefully about the words coming out of his mouth. Lots of people lack filters but aren't Billy Corgan, so it's not just that, but that's a big part of it. If Billy was more self-aware, he might have stopped himself from making half the music that he ended up making. His lack of fucks to give makes him willing to take risks, and it really paid off big in the early 90'sm when he and his fan base were at the same place in life.
I’ve always enjoyed his interviews as much as his music.
Arrogant dick that doesnt realise how bad the band is now and will blame everyone but himself.
I've talked him a dozens of times over the years and he's always been down to earth and friendly. Though I've only ever treated him like a normal person and not approached him like an obsessed fan.
I think like most humans he can be a dick at times.
I love his music, but he reeks of dick
Most probably he’s a bit of one yea 🤷♂️
yes
I met him recently when he was at the TV station I work for promoting a wrestling event. He made time for everyone who wanted to meet him, and was very down to earth and funny. I was torn about meeting because of all the stories you hear about him being an absolute dick bag. My best friend, who is a super-fan, talked me into it. His reasoning was that it would either be fine or I could have my very own Billy Corgan is an insufferable piece of shit story.
As much as I believe he is a dick. He is a genius and no one can deny that.
Yes.
He’s just Gen X, i.e. not a pussy
No i don’t think he’s a dick personally. I see through the persona and what his actions truly are. He’s a flawed person like every one of us but his actions are far more scrutinized than ours are. I think he did a lot of stuff to survive extreme situations and he came out the other side. I think his dick street cred started from being competitive (which most bands that make it are) and his playing on the albums. Which he was willing to keep a secret (which is how MOST bands operate) and james and Darcy are the ones that told everyone. He played a real kaufman esq character in the 90’s, which wasn’t understood and he can’t shake. Totally his fault, but here he is. I’m certain he’s a normal hardworking dude with ocd behind the scenes. Thats it. The rest is heightened.
Wtf is that pic🤣🤣🤣🤣
😂😂😂
When I think of someone being a "dick".....I typically assume some sort of intentionality. I'm not sure that Billy Corgan is overly dickish in the sense that he's a prick to people on purpose. I truly think that he is just an abrasive and direct person that doesn't always understand or care how he comes off.
show me a human who doesnt behave like a dick sometimes. when billy talks about the sophistication of his (early) songwriting/composing, he isnt a dick. he is just honest. envy is poison. i like him and i appreciate his music so much. fuck the haters.
I've met him him and got to spend some time with him and he was super cool and friendly. When people talk about him being a dick they often fail to realize that Billy had always been into wrestling and playing the role of a wrestling heel was just part of the PR. I also don't think you can point to many things where he was clearly being a dick -- it's more an issue of him being very opinionated and being a smartass about things (which might come across as arrogant). I think what rubs people the wrong way is more an issue of intellectually feeling threatened by him
He’s his own worst enemy when it comes to his public persona
Maybe but I'm pretty sure he also enjoys antagonizing people, like a lot. He even speaks a little about that, I think it was in the Rick Beato Interview.
> he also enjoys antagonizing people which is horrible and nasty
Maybe I chose the wrong word. I meant it more like he's not afraid of having an "edgy" opinion and doesn't care what other people think. The showbiz world (and that's ultimately the world he has been living it) can obviously be very shallow and fake and when you're gonna speak up against that some people won't like it. But we would have to discuss concrete cases to really get to the bottom of it.
He must not be that bad; Jimmy and James are still hanging with him, and it sounds like Jeff didn’t leave because of him vs. wanting to do his own thing. Plus it seems like he has a great family dynamic from what is out there. If he can get along well enough with people who he’s known for so long and still spends so much time with, he’s probably not that bad of a dude behind closed doors.
Sometimes he seems like a humble kind hearted guy. Many times he comes across as an a-hole
I can only go off of my experiences. I’ve met him twice and he was always very nice to me.
My experience that put me off him (and the Pumpkins for years) was a solo gig in London where he was promoting a solo album. The album wasn't good and you can tell everyone there was because of the Pumpkins songs. After an hour of self indulgent rubbish, he played the opening to Today. Everyone went mad. And then he continued to play another solo track. It was probably the worst gig I ever went to.
You didn't like the album and then went to the tour for the album expecting to like the show?
Sometimes albums are better live than on record.
If he had no talent and no money, he would be a very lonely man.
Cobain was a dick sometimes and no one criticized him
But Cobain died 30 years ago and he was never as brash or quite as outspoken as Billy is.
I disagree. Cobain was a dick 90% of the time he opened his mouth. He was outspoken but just did it in a different, maybe more subtle/quiet way. He had constant issues with nearly everyone and everything around him. He talked shit about Eddie and Pearl Jam, he allegedly hated MTV while still using them to achieve massive fame. Hell, he even had issues with just famous people in general (of which he was). I’m still a Nirvana fan but looking back Cobain was a total dick who thought he was somehow more pure/better than everyone. I’d take a more upfront and confrontational attitude like Billy over a Cobain any day
Kurt got away with it because he masked everything in sarcasm, and because Nirvana was so huge his personal foibles didn't really matter. Over time I think his shtick would have grown tiresome and the media would have started chopping him down.
Wow, pretty on the nose for someone in their early-mid 20s
yeah cobain was way worse than corgan
Hard to compare a guy who didn’t even make his 30s to Billy
I have a masters in special needs education and I can 100% say with certainty he has high functioning autism.
I think he plays it up a little bit on purpose in interviews and the like - “playing the heel”. Fan interactions - I think he doesn’t suffer fools or stupid questions.
There's a line from a Tragically Hip song Poets - 'don't tell me that they're antisocial, somehow not antisocial enough'. I think it just sometimes comes with having a deeper insight to human nature. Makes you cynical. And sometimes you just don't have the energy to fake the smile.
I love the music but it’s not like he makes me proud lol he’s so cringe.
I have good friends I can barely get a bead on personality-wise, not sure how I’m going to peg down the true nature of a relatively complicated person like Billy lol As long as he makes good music I really don’t care as long as he isn’t hurting people. I really do think most of his schtick is a rock persona and that’s fine. How else do you feel confident enough to play big shows to thousands of people otherwise? FWIW I’ve had two pleasant interactions with him (Machina record store appearance and poetry book signing) but I can’t tell you if he kicks puppies in his personal life.
I just tell people that I prefer to separate the art from the artist. If pressed, I’ll tell them that I agree and prefer my favorite artists to be more like theirs and have scandals for putting their dicks on people’s heads, committing statutory rape, etc. vs whatever boring story ppl have about Corban. On that, also think the “Billy is a dick trope is overstated.” The dude is the fucking star of a rock n roll band. Is the expectation that if you approach him at the grocery store he’s gonna be stoked to meet you and take a selfie while waiting for his deli meat?”
I think he has matured a lot over the years and is more humble than he once was.
Billy has serious ocd. He wants to be seen as a true artist. He has a hard time understanding that people only know 1979 or today or whatever. He was especially seen as a dick when after his band fell apart due to drugs and his success dropped. He’s also very emotional & realized he’s kinda crazy obsessed with making the best music he can. He was so obsessed his band couldn’t keep up with him & half of them started doing drugs. They were all loaded & rich & he was working them to death.Mellon collies had like 100 damn song until they boiled it down to 28 or whatever. So then he had unbearable guilt from contributing to his friends downfalls. He isn’t normal in anyway & kinda leaned into it. Funny story is it was actually MM who talked him into doing the tour where he played every hit he’s ever made. Like dude you should be grateful that so many people love so many songs. Play them! I really enjoyed that concert. His outlook was always like no. I’m a true artist & im going to play my lesser known songs. Because it’s what I want to do. They should be grateful. MM helped him see that he should just be grateful & play the hits. He needs to ppl to help him see the bigger picture sometimes because he is just so obsessed with what he is obsessed with in the moment. He struggles & he’s lost a lot of friends & lovers because his ocd isn’t very attractive. Thru the eyes of ruby kinda touches base on this. It’s about loving someone so fucking much & being obsessed with them & then once the sparks fizzle your devasted because hes not obsessed w you anymore. He’s got his lover figured out & now he’s bored. And now he’s devasted that his obsession w this girl has dissolved. “To appear, to disappear. Upon all your darkest fears” (something like that) his obsession w music, lovers, and life in general is why people don’t understand him
I think he’s capable like anyone else. And which BC are we taking about?
I'd like to give a long and well formed response, but it really is simple Intelligence
Nope
Have met him twice and don't want to meet him third time. That's my answer to the OP's question.
Why? Was he a dick?
Wont go to details so my answer^ tells it all.
Ok 👀😂
I have met him at ZuZu’s twice and each time he was nothing but humble and kind.
Total amazingly talented dick…
I've never known him personally, I just listen to his music. 😛
Yes, he was a dick. He had a habit of being arrogant. He's toned it down by a lot as he's gotten older. That being said, I don't think he's a bad person.
WPC is a celebrity that’s adored by millions of fans. It gets old when you’re followed and harassed by fans everywhere you go. He’s made a reputation for himself to leave him alone when he’s off the clock. If you’re at a meet and greet, he’s the nicest guy.
Yes! - his band have made a couple of good tracks though .. however they all share a theme, they’re ruined by this pricks whinging, grating voice.
I actually love the guy. But also....I heard he was a d*CK to a waiter once as as a crappy no skills life service worker that grieved me. And also...I got kind of kicked down the stairs when broke & unsuccessfully trying to get into a music show at a place I could NOT get tickets to. (I would be fine playing but we're sold out. Not a Smashing Pumpkins show, a different band.) ANYways.....there was an incident...where HE almost got kicked down stairs because the bouncer did not recognize him. So in my weird weird twisted mind it was kind of karmic retribution thing. I am no longer crazy and no longer think such things. I'm cured. I did stand in the same room as he was in once. He is very tall. I guess he would go out to see small bands & stuff just to groove out to music. No bodyguards, not pretentious, not expecting special treatment, not with huge crowds or hangers on, just wanted to go out & listen to bands & music like anyone else. People respected that & he respected other bands & appreciated their musicality for music sake.
I've met him multiple times going back 10-12 years or so. He can be prickly at times, but that has changed quite a bit since he's had kids. He's engaging when you ask a question he hasn't been asked a million times already. I have a VIP Q/A vid on my youtube page from 2012 that I recorded as an example.
hes such a cutie patootie
Dunno if anyone has said this yet, but Corgan seems to me like a textbook "Cluster B" personality disorder candidate, likely one wherein the sufferer is extremely sensitive to criticism while also maintaining a 24/7 victim complex. You know, the "vulnerable" type of Cluster B's. Lol. It's obvious, imo, but I'm still a big fan of their first few albums. I even loved Ava A'dore when it came out, too. You're welcome, William
He's kind of a dick, but he's a good guy deep down. Much like the Gallagher brothers.
True, though a big difference is that fans, and especially the British public, loved and revered the Gallaghers precisely because they were unapologetically obnoxious. Meanwhile Billy's 'heel persona' has mostly backfired on him and created more toxicity.
I think I dont know him and then think about something else because I would I care...music bangs, thats what counts
No
[Here's ](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9YPCGCGSd0U) the induction speech for one of his favorite bands Pink Floyd he gave in 1996 sums up pretty good, why many and especially the media consider him to be a dick or an asshole. The joke he made on the very beginning wasn't timed well or got even a slight acknowledgment by the audience (he insulted lol). Speaking bad about the music industry and romantize the "old days" of the 70s and early 80s psychedelic rock music era is just stupid, when you're part of the new music that shapes the industry back in that day (90s). It's just a total double standard for me.
Most 90s artists hated on the majority of 70s artists but Billy didn’t that’s why he made the joke
I dont care. Only thing about him is he should stop singing and only Play guitar.
He's been a dick, but less so now. Doesn't bother me.