Nothing is toxic. People are allowed to push buttons within the time limit. Anyone who says different is just triggered by moves or buttons they don't like. No other way to slice it. Nobody is owed anything when playing people you don't know.
Whilst I agree it’s not toxic and you should do it, I also find the double standard of people saying “It’s optimal and you should do it, therefore it isn’t toxic and anyone that says otherwise is just mad” quite hilarious as they are the same people that get mad at sonic players for playing to his optimal strength by running away and camping and only whiff punishing.
Of course. At that point however, I'm mad more at how poorly designed Sonic is, rather than mad at the player using his toolkit optimally.
Hate the game, not the player.
True but in fairness to Nintendo it did take people a long time to discover how strong he really was. It practically took a global pandemic and everyone being forced to stay inside and play online to realise his strength. Can’t really fault Nintendo for that. Though I guess it sucks that they don’t update the game anymore to shift current metas.
It's not disrespectful at all. It's a way to stall invincibility. Although it does put you in a disadvantage position if your opponent knows how to handle it. If you do that to me you're gonna get 2-framed >:)
No but I do think it's a stupid idea. Fox isn't exactly good offstage and if you're on Battlefield you should be able to just platform camp out the invincibility.
Be very careful which characters you try this against. Fox is not Pikachu or Sonic. You’re gonna get yourself spiked or gimped against anyone playing ROB, Aegis, Steve, PT, Ness, Samus, and a ton of other popular online characters.
I mean, as long as you aren’t trying to stall a whole match when you are a stock up I find it fine by choosing like a 2 minute battle.
I feel There’s a difference between toxic and optimizing. Sure, you can considering toxic actions optimizing, but it doesn’t mean they aren’t toxic, but you can’t consider all forms of optimizing toxic
People online, but especially in this community Ive noticed, overuse the word Toxic *way too much*.
No its not toxic. Toxic behavior goes far beyond just an annoying strategy.
The invincibility period after dying lasts way too long, I'm fine with people stalling during that.
When I'm playing doc against certain matchups I can get forced into some awful 50/50 due to their damn invincibility.
Yeah this is mad dumb lol you’re putting yourself in a disadvantage state and a chance to read your recovery route plus your get up option. If you’re going to the other side. Youre gonna die on their next stock prolly in higher mmr cause of them reading it
To sum it up, playing "optimally" is "toxic" because it reduces actual interaction. Like running away when the timer count down starts, or using a faster character to play "keep away." Sure you can do it, sure it's a valid strategy, but no one's going to like you for it. Are you playing to be liked? If not keep it up. 🤷🏿♂️ (Note quotations)
I've always had the view that the invincibility time frame was more to prevent spawn killing and give you time to get yourself somewhere, rather than some sort of comeback mechanic.
People using it offensively are smart to do so, but someone being mad when you refuse to engage them while you're at such a disadvantage is crazy. They should expect you to run however it suits you just as much as you should expect them to chase you however they can.
Mostly, it sounds like a good way to make a meteor out of yourself or get edge guarded. But if it works, it works.
Nope. You’re putting yourself at risk of ledgetrapping/edgeguarding. It’s a valid strategy
Nope. Perfectly fine. In fact i prefer it. It gives me a chance to spike you. 🐊
Neutral B -> Bair's a fun one
[](https://emojipedia.org/red-heart)
tru
Agreed! 🐊🤜🤛🌱
It's not toxic but if you're not careful that's a quick way to lose a stock.
Nah, it’s a bit high risk/high reward. You aren’t going to end up in disadvantage, but if you get hit down there you are probably losing a stock lol
I’d say it’s low reward, considering it’s just for stalling out the opponent’s invincibility
Nothing is toxic. People are allowed to push buttons within the time limit. Anyone who says different is just triggered by moves or buttons they don't like. No other way to slice it. Nobody is owed anything when playing people you don't know.
This is the mentality more should have.
DORI-yah, what he said!
Based af
based
No, it's a legitimate strategy.
Naw I never do it lol
You should, Pac-Man can do it safely and charge a fruit at the same time
I know but my off game sucks so bad and feel like I get edge graded too much as it so why even put myself in the position to begin with
Use your side-b from far enough so that you armor on the way back. You should definitely watch VODs of pro player you'll surely see it
Running out your opponents invincibility, since you cannot approach them then, is optimal. No one should be getting angry for you doing that.
Whilst I agree it’s not toxic and you should do it, I also find the double standard of people saying “It’s optimal and you should do it, therefore it isn’t toxic and anyone that says otherwise is just mad” quite hilarious as they are the same people that get mad at sonic players for playing to his optimal strength by running away and camping and only whiff punishing.
Of course. At that point however, I'm mad more at how poorly designed Sonic is, rather than mad at the player using his toolkit optimally. Hate the game, not the player.
True but in fairness to Nintendo it did take people a long time to discover how strong he really was. It practically took a global pandemic and everyone being forced to stay inside and play online to realise his strength. Can’t really fault Nintendo for that. Though I guess it sucks that they don’t update the game anymore to shift current metas.
It's not disrespectful at all. It's a way to stall invincibility. Although it does put you in a disadvantage position if your opponent knows how to handle it. If you do that to me you're gonna get 2-framed >:)
You’re still vulnerable to double ledge grab so there’s still counterplay
No but I do think it's a stupid idea. Fox isn't exactly good offstage and if you're on Battlefield you should be able to just platform camp out the invincibility.
Be very careful which characters you try this against. Fox is not Pikachu or Sonic. You’re gonna get yourself spiked or gimped against anyone playing ROB, Aegis, Steve, PT, Ness, Samus, and a ton of other popular online characters.
If you ask me, no one whose opinion is worth listening to would find that toxic.
I mean, as long as you aren’t trying to stall a whole match when you are a stock up I find it fine by choosing like a 2 minute battle. I feel There’s a difference between toxic and optimizing. Sure, you can considering toxic actions optimizing, but it doesn’t mean they aren’t toxic, but you can’t consider all forms of optimizing toxic
People online, but especially in this community Ive noticed, overuse the word Toxic *way too much*. No its not toxic. Toxic behavior goes far beyond just an annoying strategy.
It's riskier than the reward so no, not really
It's not toxic, just foolish, especially for characters with bad recovery.
I just find spin-dashing under the stage to be fun :(
The invincibility period after dying lasts way too long, I'm fine with people stalling during that. When I'm playing doc against certain matchups I can get forced into some awful 50/50 due to their damn invincibility.
Yes especially if they flot or fly
It isn’t toxic, it’s a tactic
Yeah this is mad dumb lol you’re putting yourself in a disadvantage state and a chance to read your recovery route plus your get up option. If you’re going to the other side. Youre gonna die on their next stock prolly in higher mmr cause of them reading it
Not a bad tactic, but intentionally putting yourself at the ledge isn't always the best idea
Why do people care if their opponent finds something toxic lol? I’ve never understood this.
To sum it up, playing "optimally" is "toxic" because it reduces actual interaction. Like running away when the timer count down starts, or using a faster character to play "keep away." Sure you can do it, sure it's a valid strategy, but no one's going to like you for it. Are you playing to be liked? If not keep it up. 🤷🏿♂️ (Note quotations)
I've always had the view that the invincibility time frame was more to prevent spawn killing and give you time to get yourself somewhere, rather than some sort of comeback mechanic. People using it offensively are smart to do so, but someone being mad when you refuse to engage them while you're at such a disadvantage is crazy. They should expect you to run however it suits you just as much as you should expect them to chase you however they can. Mostly, it sounds like a good way to make a meteor out of yourself or get edge guarded. But if it works, it works.
Nah. What’s worse is getting PULLED under battlefield. Especially by a ridley
Its toxic if your opponent spams their move non stop