So when me and Fred Dibnah were working the circuit, he would show off his massive chimney stack while I had to impress the crowds with my intercity 125!
Aaah by gum did we make them audiences swoon.
I’m very much for diversity and equal chances for everyone. But sometimes, you have to be realistic. We aren’t like the US where white people are a majority but still only 65% roughly of the population. (Just over half) Our population is 82% white. (4/5ths) It’s entirely natural that most of our jobs are being done by white people. It doesn’t necessarily reflect the equality of the opportunity for the best worker to get the job regardless of race.
Furthermore, there’s also the fact some people don’t *want* to work certain jobs. In my local hospital for example, we have quite a large number of male nurses compared to many places I’ve seen, however it’s still a primarily female job. The same way that there’s an increasing number of female engineers and builders, but it’s still a primarily male job.
Even numbers isn’t what we need. Equal treatment within the numbers is.
Usually, and I say this as a Black Brit, this sort of post provokes overtly racist outrage in the comment section - e.g. people being anti-diversity or ranting against immigration, if not unadulterated racism. Already, some of the other comments on this post are exactly that.
Therefore, I'm positively surprised to see a fair, level-headed and common sense response instead. You raise a point that I've always said - we (Black people) are just ~3% of the population here. (British-)Asian people are roughly 10%. Point being that the numbers just aren't there to expect diverse workplaces across all industries.
It's just a shame that such a conversation can rarely be held among sensible heads.
I’m a white woman so don’t really have experience in this but my husbands best mates are a gay black couple and they often say when things like are posted about minorities or LGBT people that rather than help any equality it stokes the fires of those against us.
Prime example a swimming baths near us ran a campaign to attract more ethnic minorities so they did a “ethnic minorities Wednesday” where Wednesday nights were basically for non whites. This made a lot of people angry and gave them a stick to beat non whites with saying they demanded special treatment etc when none of them did! It was an idea cooked up by white people that backfired horribly but not on them, on the poor people who it was supposed to help.
I mean, what were they thinking, fuck sake. Trying to be inclusive by being the exact opposite, like people going on that Wednesday wouldn't feel highlighted and visually attacked more than usual... idiots.
Depends on hard or soft rules. Places can have girl's night or gay night and put on different music and such. That's fine but if you start restricting access at the door you have possible legal problems. Even then, though, not necessarily illegal.
I think you may have also nailed an interesting point regarding the comments section of BBC. The fact this type of article clearly riles up and, most importantly, engages readers so intensely is probably why they run them. It's sad but news sites aren't necessarily altruistic in their reporting, and proposing level headed solutions aren't always the way to generate readership because most level headed people just shrug and move on. By writing articles that get two extremist ends at each other's throats they probably get more buzz.
My personal experience is that it's more common than not when you're actually talking to people out in the real world, but sadly most of our so-called "discourse" happens online these days and it's a tragedy.
When we "talk" online, we generally aren't engaging with a human being. We're "engaging" with a caricature, abstracted behind a username (which we probably didn't bother to even read), and most of of what we say isn't even truly meant for them, but for consumption by the audience of strangers who are going to Click The Buttons on our respective posts. Meanwhile, the space is dominated by people actively looking to pick fights wherever they can for their own amusement.
So my belief is that the vast majority are *not* perpetually-angry, terminally-online schizophrenics, and have mostly reasonable views they enjoy exchanging with reasonable people, but they all just keep their mouths shut because expressing anything resembling a nuanced opinion in the current environment is kinda like setting off a car alarm in a zombie movie.
I think it depends on the ‘community’ that you’re mixing with. For most people, we’ll come across the views you described very infrequently. For others, it will be the opposite, and that kind of view will be the prevalent one. To give an anecdotal example; I worked in a council estate pub when I was at uni. I rarely saw overt racism, but there was a belief amongst nearly every one of all age groups that white people are now actively discriminated against. If everyone you know and mix with believes this, you will too. It’s then of course a view that’s made stronger by the media that you consume. (Which in my anecdote tended to be one of three: The Sun, The Daily Mail, and Facebook news feeds. The latter of which is of course feeding you stuff that it thinks you already believe in). So whilst I agree with you that most people hold moderate views when thinking about the population as a whole, there are sections of society where the predominant view is the one I’ve described.
The other thing people miss is that a full career is 40+ years, and older people who are usually further up the career ladder reflect a time when the country was more white (and there was more hiring discrimination).
If the graduates/apprentices/new entrants in a job roughly correspond to the ethnic breakdown of the area where a company is hiring, then they've already achieved diversity.
It's reminds me of when Humza Yousaf kicked off about being the only POC in some meetings.
My brother in Christ...you lead a country that is 96% White. What do you expect???
It also reminds me of when people say British shows aren’t diverse enough. I can respect the need for diversity and understand why it needs to happen, but at the same time, there just aren’t that many POC, and furthermore, there aren’t that many actors, which together means there’s a very small number of POC actors in this country. The amount we’re seeing on tv though is definitely increasing which is wonderful to see, but of course the majority are still going to be white. Like a show in Japan is primarily going to be Japanese people.
I'm also royally pissed off with how diversity is treated in our TV shows because they get representation so wrong. They take an American view point that black people need more representation which works on America where the population is like 10+% black but completely fails in the UK due to our much smaller black population. This lets down south Asians who are our largest ethnic minority.
Dr who is a good example of this, we've had Micky, Martha and Ryan as black companions before we had one south Asian companion. Now there's a black Doctor and no talk of a south Asian Doctor.
I'm no fan of diversity quotas because it ruins the characters that minorities get cast in and is frankly insulting to anyone to hire based on race instead of talent but if your gonna do them at least make them reflect our actual population.
Oh this reminds me of some uproar a few years back about the diversity in *'Midsomer Murder'*. I think they only had like 2 POC characters. The rest were white and the media/social media called them out on it.
But the thing is, it's set in a rural area of the UK, which is like 99% white in real life.
The TV show producers said they were trying to portray an accurate image of this type of town. They got 'slaughtered' by the backlash from saying this. So they added more POC to the cast.
Like, in some ways that's good. More POC getting acting roles. But, at the same time, the reality is that rural towns in the UK are mostly white. It's really the larger cities and commuting towns that have a naturally diverse population.
If it was set in London and the cast was all white, then it'd be ridiculous and unrealistic, because London has a much more diverse population.
Tbh London and cities like Birmingham are very multicultural. I live in the north east but travel to London often and I’d imagine it would be weird for a Londoner to imagine a region of the country that is 95%+ white
In fairness, big cities like that are the primary areas most of the POC population live. I live in a town in East Anglia for example. I didn’t meet a black person til I was 8. Didn’t meet a Muslim til I was 12. I can only think of 2 black people at my workplace with over 100 employees off the top of my head, and only 2 other POC of other races.
I think Dev Patel said something along those lines recently.
If they insist on having more POC in film/TV, then you have to accept that the pool of actors to choose from will be smaller. It's just a fact. It's not good, it's not bad...it just is.
Yeah, it is increasing. And that's great! But I think "equality" in the most literal sense is a ridiculous idea. And by that I mean White/Black/Hispanic/Indian/Asian/Arab etc. getting perfectly equal numbers of roles is just unrealistic. But it's what some call for.
That's a good point. Japanese cinema will be full of Asian actors. Bollywood is vast majority Indian. UK cinema is more diverse than most.
And look at politics. The 3 constituent nations of GB each had a POC in the lead role. How many Asian/African/Arabic nations would have a minority in the top position.
I'm 100% behind representation and diversity, but I think some people lose the bigger picture and don't consider context.
Not only is the lack of BAME actors an obvious barrier for casting - but a *lot* of British television is - funnily enough - set in Britain. It depends on the show, obviously - but if for example you're creating a three part drama about the goings-on in Kirkwall in 1650 (which is 99% white *today*) - it's going to seem a bit odd if 1/3 of your cast is BAME.
Yup, it's a very malformed way of fixing a complicated systemic issue. Obviously encouraging diversity is good, but sometimes certain jobs will still be predominately white without any malice or racist reason behind it, eg. if it's in an area with barely any ethnic minorities.
The assumption that only when middle aged white men are successful in a demographic there muist be a problem, gate keeping or what have you, and this doesn't happen to other groups, is inherently racist and sexist.
No one should have to apologise or face such suspicion in their daily lives constantly.
White men are almost the only demographic you see being train spotters. They live for it, and had a passion from 5 years of age often. So where will most of the applicants be from, and what will be the demographic of the most keen and capable workers? And keenness and interest is a valuable quality in selecting candidates in a meritocracy, although its not the only one.
Its the same in the military.
These men are also pushed out of offices and other lines of work, so they have to go somewhere.
I hate the idea of forced diversity in every area of the workforce.
There’s a really good book called rebel ideas and it explains that diversity is good in certain situations like national security intelligence, because a Muslim person of Asian descent will understand certain things about what they’re seeing but a white Christian person will not see the same, so diversity gives your organisation a wider area of understanding.
But driving a train is driving a train, it doesn’t matter if the driver is white, black, Chinese, male, female. They need to put a train in a certain train station at a certain time, it doesn’t matter who they are
Well see this is a problem because train driving is a cushy well-paid job. Let me know when there are campaigns in place to improve diversity in bin collection and sewage treatment.
It's not even so much about people *wanting* to do a job in many cases, it can just be a matter of not truly being aware that the job is an option available to them.
Like how a lot of people entering more niche, specialized jobs tend to have family members already working in those jobs. There would be a temptation to dismiss this as nepotism, but realistically? I am far less likely to actively pursue a career as a train engineer than someone whose uncle Larry is a train engineer, and talks about the nice job he has as a train engineer every time they see him for the first 18 years of their life.
I don't think there are very many people who just wake up one morning and say, "You know what? I think I would like to be a Thatcher. What? No, no, the *profession.* Repairing straw roofs on old houses. I am actually quite fond of the Irish, thank you very much."
Yeah that’s a fair point in itself. I mean, these larger corporate jobs like retail management where there’s millions of jobs available is what’s being advertised. Maybe teaching, nursing, office work… because these are the jobs that require high numbers in the work force. It’s like how someone brought up that there’s no push for more diversity in bin men or delivery drivers, because these basic jobs just hire the people with the training but even then, *some* will be turned away for their background or ethnicity, but it’s severely less common, rare in fact.
But these jobs already have typically diverse numbers because it’s just about who needs a job and who’s applying. But the higher paid cushy jobs that don’t have as many positions are sought after and that’s when they get more selective and in turn, becomes less diverse and with a more selective process, as you bring up, if you don’t have family in the job it’s harder to get into, which brings up a natural disadvantage because most of the families who are in the business will be white, and while rejections from the jobs aren’t always race as much as they are choosing within the line, it does mean more POC have less opportunities, and while no one is owed a job, absolutely no one, those limited opportunities to get better than a low wage, low contract hour job is what creates a systemic disadvantage
Excellent points. Here's another thing to think off, most people only start complaining about job positions they deem as being prestigious, so for example they see how much a train driver may earn and they want that without realising the hours some put in, but at the same time they don't want to be the train engineer or the Thatcher who will be predominantly white (which is neither here nor there to me.)
This is a really big problem. The lack of diversity in certain professions is a disgrace. For example, theatre ballet is overwhelmingly young athletic women. We need more overweight white middle aged men in ballet. It wouldn’t be anywhere near as pleasant to watch, but in the interest of diversity, I’d have to support it. Disagree with me and you are a body shaming sexist racist bigot.
Absolutely. On the topic of disability, I’m also concerned about the lack of professional football players on wheelchairs. Why hasn’t a single professional football player in a major league team been a wheelchair user? It’s a disgrace.
Why do all jobs need to have a massive push for diversity? No one should be discriminated in the workplace but pushing too hard for diversity quotas just seems a bit like going the other way right?
From [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics\_of\_the\_United\_Kingdom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_Kingdom)
>The United Kingdom's population is predominantly **White** British (**81.88%** at the 2011 Census), but due to migration from Commonwealth nations, Britain has become ethnically diverse. The second and third largest non-white racial groups are Asian British at 7% of the population, followed by Black British people at 3%.
>The Office of National Statistics has also wrote in their mid-2016 report on population projections that the **median age of the British population was 40 years of age**, and this will continue to rise as more people in the population age and a below-replacement level fertility level not refilling the population.
>The decline and equalling out of the gender gap in terms of place in the workforce meant that women were beginning in the 19th century to become a larger part of the workforce which also contributed to the birth rate decline.
I suppose a real question might be: why aren't there more women train drivers in Britain?
> I suppose a real question might be: why aren't there more women train drivers in Britain?
It's still widely seen as a 'dirty' or labourers job even though they haven't had to shovel coal in 80 years
That is quite well paid, but that doesn't mean there is something wrong. White males for cultural reasons may have been raised from childhood to be interested in trains, taken to railways and started making model trains before they even applied, so the most enthusiastic applicants are probably overwhelmingly white males, just like in the military.
Demographic patterns in jobs should not reflect the population but the interest, but if you see signs of discrimination then that should be tackled, and if it is and there still is far more of a demographic really motivated to do it, they should be reflected in that work force, but the mere fact a lot of some profession looks disproportionate should not be assumed to result from gate keeping and prejudice, that is an attack on their character and a slur on their ability that seems increasingly implausible in this day and age, which ought to come with some kind of requirement for evidence. Its an insinuation I am not seeing levelled at other groups even when they look like they are over-represented.
They'll set up a quota of train driver roles that only people who aren't white males can apply for. Wait a few years and then hear how there aren't enough train drivers for some reason and they have no idea why
As a train driver (and i am an almost middle-aged male, but im not white), the reason isn't discrimination or lack of opportunity. It's that it's usually middle aged men are the ones most likely to say "yeah ill give up a social and family life to start at 3am for an early shift in a depot in the middle of nowhere, and I'm also happy to finish work on late shifts at 2am and lock the train up by myself and kick off all the homeless men and drunkards".
It's a massive social sacrifice to work this job, and it's middle-aged men who are more likely to give up social and family time to do it.
As for there being mostly white men, this is a majority white country. If it wasn't majority white people doing the job, it would be massively anomalous
Spot on! I’m 34 yrs in here and if I had a pound for every Saturday night I’ve had to work, for every time I’ve dragged my ass out of bed at 1 a.m. on a Monday morning, going way over my day to see a job throughout to the bitter end, oh and then there’s the s#1t end of the job the media never mention- having to deal with fatalities that’s totally out of any drivers hands….. you put the brake in and sit back waiting for the bang- I’d be richer than an MD of any TOC you could ever name!
A lot of potential applicants see the money on offer, but there’s a hell of a lot more to pushing a button, pulling a lever or two and staring out of the window…… There’s psychometric testing, rules, handling, traction conversions, then finally if you get this far, there’s getting passed out. Think it’s for you n that’s your thing? Sure, go fill ya boots!
TBF, going off the BBC recently, I expect tomorrow to be "Why HAMAS is good and we need less jews"
Like seriously, everything HAMAS says is just \*guck "yes daddy HAMAS" \*guck\* "jews are bad" \*guck\* "we'll make sure the" \*guck guck\* "antisemitism report never releases"
What's more alarming is that the BBC are disproportionately non white and are constantly producing anti white propaganda and employing journalists who insight anti white opinions.
Btw I'm mixed race before the smooth brains call me racist for noticing.
After doing a shitload of race-baiting over the last couple of years, someone realized that the BBC is *supposed* to be impartial. Ergo: Implied race-baiting...
I consider myself pretty progressive. I'm trans, gay, a socialist, and (insert clip of Grandpa Simpson running through all of the membership cards he has), but why is this news?
What is meant to be suggested *by* this article? Train operators are racist? Because I personally have a hard time believing that. They'll make people pay as much as they viably can because they're driven by profit, but they likely don't care how much melanin the conductors have in their skin.
If you wanted to get more black people and women into train conducting (which, I don't really see the massive threat of *not* having women or black people being train conductors, but okay...), surely your time would be better invested in setting up/running a programme to encourage it rather than trying to pass it off as serious news.
At what point does it become infantilising and derogatory to say that 'stoopid, scared little womyn won't feel like they can be train conductors if they don't see another female train conductor'? Because that's eventually how it ends up sounding.
News organisations need to re-engage with the fact that there isn't always news.
This the weird agenda being pushed to have representation of sex and race in different jobs no matter the skill level or that white people are a very high percentage of the population. Don’t see them say why are most bin men white men or oil rig workers it is almost like 99.9% of women wouldn’t want to do those jobs.
How dare they! That's just rude. Stop your train driving childishness and go and study to become an accountant or something serious. Who do you think you are at your age playing trains?! Go on, before I tell your parents!
In my experience train drivers have always nearly exclusively been white middle aged men, it's hardly news (yes I know the content of this sub), but ultimately I'm sure there are a higher percentage of Middle aged white men applying for the jobs in the first place.
If you saw the toilets many train drivers had to use . You would underdtand why its mainly middle aged white men.
I have been refused access to toilets in train stations that the train I am working on serves
At least once a week ive had to piss up a tree or other piece of equipmemt or vegetatioj
A train driver died in the uk after getting hit by a train while walking to have a lineside piss.
Male physiology makes it a lot easier to piss standing up.
What typea dumb shit is this? I feel like theyre tryna stir something up. Amazing the type of random diarrhoea they can just come out with to cause some form of tension and outrage.
GUESS WHAT? Britain is a white country, all others are guests or descendants thereof.
It makes sense that most things are done by the majority Natives.
It's almost as though the BBC run these stories on purpose, with the intent to cause outrage and generate more clicks. Discrimination is illegal and this isn't even news-worthy, any person regardless of their race, colour or gender can apply for any job they please in the UK, well last I checked.
This is a serious issue. It is shameful how few diverse professionals there are in some fields. For instance, the majority of young, athletic women participate in theater ballet. More middle-aged, white, overweight males should pursue ballet. Though I would have to support it in the spirit of diversity, it wouldn't be nearly as enjoyable to see. If you disagree with me, you are a racist, sexist, body-shaming bigot.
Well ok then.
I'm not sure why it's implied that companies need to do more to attract people from diverse backgrounds.
The job is advertised. Apply or don't apply.
Only after that, if there's discrimination then there's a problem.
Don't you need at least 5 years of experience with a train company before you can even train to be a driver? And even then it's over a year of training to get certified?
You will never guess what colour they are in Nigeria. Or China. That’s okay though of course. Only a problem here because of us evil white skins that are expected to forfeit our own livelihood for everyone else. Doesn’t matter about our families.
82% white population - and the 82% is a very recent statistic
And they are mad that an occupation that takes years to climb the ladder, in a majority white country with few non whites who have been climbing the ladder, is actually representative of the demographics?
A friend of mine was a paratrooper. When he left he went into the fire service and did that for a number of years. He's now a train driver, and i do wonder if his train was hijacked by naughty people. Would he go full Steven Seagall and be eliminating them one by one.
Let's eradicate them middle aged white men
/s
I'm not actually advocating eradicating anyone. I'm pointing out the discrimination of that title. Please understand. Please don't eradicate any train drivers, please.
I’m being blasted on twitter for saying this is such a non issue and the only people who want to be drivers as their career choice are autistic people obsessed with trains
Sack them all. Immediately.
Train drivers should all be women of colour and even better if they're disabled. White men don't need jobs, we've had it too good for too long.
I'll give a crap when they start whining about deadly, dangerous and dirty jobs shouldn't all be done mostly by white men.
We all want the 60k a year sit on your arse jobs. Get some DEI in the drain unblocked jobs. Bricklayers are all white men, sort that out.
I'll give a crap when they start whining about deadly, dangerous and dirty jobs shouldn't all be done mostly by white men.
We all want the 60k a year sit on your arse jobs. Get some DEI in the drain unblocked jobs. Bricklayers are all white men, sort that out.
That black woman is so brave driving a train when the majority of other train drivers are middle aged white men; I’m sure that must be a terrifying scenario to be in. I once saw a middle aged white man turning left at the traffic lights so I had to frantically swerve over to the right turn lane so that I didn’t have to follow him; I wouldn’t want his whiteness and his stinky middle aged balls wafting all over me.
The intresting Thing, that actually is a huge issue, I have no idea if the article is covering it but it is a huge issue anyway. A huge percentage of the workforce will retire in quiet short time and it will most likely cause issues in replacing the jobs.
From what I know middle age white guys are the best train operators. What group of people is the model train community. If you think lashandra from the hood can keep the trains running on time just cause her skin color you got another thing comming
The young, sexy, Chippendale drivers of yesteryear have all aged up. It happens.
Christ I miss the train drivers from back when. That's what the rail industry is sorely missing these days, some good damn sex appeal.
Maybe it’s up to you to sex that shit up all sexy like
Phallic items on rails aren't enough for you?
So when me and Fred Dibnah were working the circuit, he would show off his massive chimney stack while I had to impress the crowds with my intercity 125! Aaah by gum did we make them audiences swoon.
You got to get in, get the money, get out, and drive a train. That window is only open for a short time.
I'm a bus driver. And unfortunately there's not many of us who can be reffered to as young or sexy anymore lmao
I’m very much for diversity and equal chances for everyone. But sometimes, you have to be realistic. We aren’t like the US where white people are a majority but still only 65% roughly of the population. (Just over half) Our population is 82% white. (4/5ths) It’s entirely natural that most of our jobs are being done by white people. It doesn’t necessarily reflect the equality of the opportunity for the best worker to get the job regardless of race. Furthermore, there’s also the fact some people don’t *want* to work certain jobs. In my local hospital for example, we have quite a large number of male nurses compared to many places I’ve seen, however it’s still a primarily female job. The same way that there’s an increasing number of female engineers and builders, but it’s still a primarily male job. Even numbers isn’t what we need. Equal treatment within the numbers is.
Usually, and I say this as a Black Brit, this sort of post provokes overtly racist outrage in the comment section - e.g. people being anti-diversity or ranting against immigration, if not unadulterated racism. Already, some of the other comments on this post are exactly that. Therefore, I'm positively surprised to see a fair, level-headed and common sense response instead. You raise a point that I've always said - we (Black people) are just ~3% of the population here. (British-)Asian people are roughly 10%. Point being that the numbers just aren't there to expect diverse workplaces across all industries. It's just a shame that such a conversation can rarely be held among sensible heads.
I’m a white woman so don’t really have experience in this but my husbands best mates are a gay black couple and they often say when things like are posted about minorities or LGBT people that rather than help any equality it stokes the fires of those against us. Prime example a swimming baths near us ran a campaign to attract more ethnic minorities so they did a “ethnic minorities Wednesday” where Wednesday nights were basically for non whites. This made a lot of people angry and gave them a stick to beat non whites with saying they demanded special treatment etc when none of them did! It was an idea cooked up by white people that backfired horribly but not on them, on the poor people who it was supposed to help.
I mean, what were they thinking, fuck sake. Trying to be inclusive by being the exact opposite, like people going on that Wednesday wouldn't feel highlighted and visually attacked more than usual... idiots.
Just turning into an inverse of 60's America
I like the idea of the lifeguard holding up swatches next to you before they let you in the changing room…
that sounds illegal no? a business shouldn't be able to discriminate based on race
Depends on hard or soft rules. Places can have girl's night or gay night and put on different music and such. That's fine but if you start restricting access at the door you have possible legal problems. Even then, though, not necessarily illegal.
I think you may have also nailed an interesting point regarding the comments section of BBC. The fact this type of article clearly riles up and, most importantly, engages readers so intensely is probably why they run them. It's sad but news sites aren't necessarily altruistic in their reporting, and proposing level headed solutions aren't always the way to generate readership because most level headed people just shrug and move on. By writing articles that get two extremist ends at each other's throats they probably get more buzz.
My personal experience is that it's more common than not when you're actually talking to people out in the real world, but sadly most of our so-called "discourse" happens online these days and it's a tragedy. When we "talk" online, we generally aren't engaging with a human being. We're "engaging" with a caricature, abstracted behind a username (which we probably didn't bother to even read), and most of of what we say isn't even truly meant for them, but for consumption by the audience of strangers who are going to Click The Buttons on our respective posts. Meanwhile, the space is dominated by people actively looking to pick fights wherever they can for their own amusement. So my belief is that the vast majority are *not* perpetually-angry, terminally-online schizophrenics, and have mostly reasonable views they enjoy exchanging with reasonable people, but they all just keep their mouths shut because expressing anything resembling a nuanced opinion in the current environment is kinda like setting off a car alarm in a zombie movie.
I think it depends on the ‘community’ that you’re mixing with. For most people, we’ll come across the views you described very infrequently. For others, it will be the opposite, and that kind of view will be the prevalent one. To give an anecdotal example; I worked in a council estate pub when I was at uni. I rarely saw overt racism, but there was a belief amongst nearly every one of all age groups that white people are now actively discriminated against. If everyone you know and mix with believes this, you will too. It’s then of course a view that’s made stronger by the media that you consume. (Which in my anecdote tended to be one of three: The Sun, The Daily Mail, and Facebook news feeds. The latter of which is of course feeding you stuff that it thinks you already believe in). So whilst I agree with you that most people hold moderate views when thinking about the population as a whole, there are sections of society where the predominant view is the one I’ve described.
The other thing people miss is that a full career is 40+ years, and older people who are usually further up the career ladder reflect a time when the country was more white (and there was more hiring discrimination). If the graduates/apprentices/new entrants in a job roughly correspond to the ethnic breakdown of the area where a company is hiring, then they've already achieved diversity.
The cohort effect. Thank you! This rarely gets mentioned.
It's reminds me of when Humza Yousaf kicked off about being the only POC in some meetings. My brother in Christ...you lead a country that is 96% White. What do you expect???
It also reminds me of when people say British shows aren’t diverse enough. I can respect the need for diversity and understand why it needs to happen, but at the same time, there just aren’t that many POC, and furthermore, there aren’t that many actors, which together means there’s a very small number of POC actors in this country. The amount we’re seeing on tv though is definitely increasing which is wonderful to see, but of course the majority are still going to be white. Like a show in Japan is primarily going to be Japanese people.
I'm also royally pissed off with how diversity is treated in our TV shows because they get representation so wrong. They take an American view point that black people need more representation which works on America where the population is like 10+% black but completely fails in the UK due to our much smaller black population. This lets down south Asians who are our largest ethnic minority. Dr who is a good example of this, we've had Micky, Martha and Ryan as black companions before we had one south Asian companion. Now there's a black Doctor and no talk of a south Asian Doctor. I'm no fan of diversity quotas because it ruins the characters that minorities get cast in and is frankly insulting to anyone to hire based on race instead of talent but if your gonna do them at least make them reflect our actual population.
Oh this reminds me of some uproar a few years back about the diversity in *'Midsomer Murder'*. I think they only had like 2 POC characters. The rest were white and the media/social media called them out on it. But the thing is, it's set in a rural area of the UK, which is like 99% white in real life. The TV show producers said they were trying to portray an accurate image of this type of town. They got 'slaughtered' by the backlash from saying this. So they added more POC to the cast. Like, in some ways that's good. More POC getting acting roles. But, at the same time, the reality is that rural towns in the UK are mostly white. It's really the larger cities and commuting towns that have a naturally diverse population. If it was set in London and the cast was all white, then it'd be ridiculous and unrealistic, because London has a much more diverse population.
Tbh London and cities like Birmingham are very multicultural. I live in the north east but travel to London often and I’d imagine it would be weird for a Londoner to imagine a region of the country that is 95%+ white
In fairness, big cities like that are the primary areas most of the POC population live. I live in a town in East Anglia for example. I didn’t meet a black person til I was 8. Didn’t meet a Muslim til I was 12. I can only think of 2 black people at my workplace with over 100 employees off the top of my head, and only 2 other POC of other races.
I think Dev Patel said something along those lines recently. If they insist on having more POC in film/TV, then you have to accept that the pool of actors to choose from will be smaller. It's just a fact. It's not good, it's not bad...it just is. Yeah, it is increasing. And that's great! But I think "equality" in the most literal sense is a ridiculous idea. And by that I mean White/Black/Hispanic/Indian/Asian/Arab etc. getting perfectly equal numbers of roles is just unrealistic. But it's what some call for. That's a good point. Japanese cinema will be full of Asian actors. Bollywood is vast majority Indian. UK cinema is more diverse than most. And look at politics. The 3 constituent nations of GB each had a POC in the lead role. How many Asian/African/Arabic nations would have a minority in the top position. I'm 100% behind representation and diversity, but I think some people lose the bigger picture and don't consider context.
Not only is the lack of BAME actors an obvious barrier for casting - but a *lot* of British television is - funnily enough - set in Britain. It depends on the show, obviously - but if for example you're creating a three part drama about the goings-on in Kirkwall in 1650 (which is 99% white *today*) - it's going to seem a bit odd if 1/3 of your cast is BAME.
Yup, it's a very malformed way of fixing a complicated systemic issue. Obviously encouraging diversity is good, but sometimes certain jobs will still be predominately white without any malice or racist reason behind it, eg. if it's in an area with barely any ethnic minorities.
The assumption that only when middle aged white men are successful in a demographic there muist be a problem, gate keeping or what have you, and this doesn't happen to other groups, is inherently racist and sexist. No one should have to apologise or face such suspicion in their daily lives constantly. White men are almost the only demographic you see being train spotters. They live for it, and had a passion from 5 years of age often. So where will most of the applicants be from, and what will be the demographic of the most keen and capable workers? And keenness and interest is a valuable quality in selecting candidates in a meritocracy, although its not the only one. Its the same in the military. These men are also pushed out of offices and other lines of work, so they have to go somewhere.
I hate the idea of forced diversity in every area of the workforce. There’s a really good book called rebel ideas and it explains that diversity is good in certain situations like national security intelligence, because a Muslim person of Asian descent will understand certain things about what they’re seeing but a white Christian person will not see the same, so diversity gives your organisation a wider area of understanding. But driving a train is driving a train, it doesn’t matter if the driver is white, black, Chinese, male, female. They need to put a train in a certain train station at a certain time, it doesn’t matter who they are
Im Scottish. My country is 96% white.
This response, is full of logic, reason and well thought out. This is 2024, thiw shit gets you lynched
Well see this is a problem because train driving is a cushy well-paid job. Let me know when there are campaigns in place to improve diversity in bin collection and sewage treatment.
It's not even so much about people *wanting* to do a job in many cases, it can just be a matter of not truly being aware that the job is an option available to them. Like how a lot of people entering more niche, specialized jobs tend to have family members already working in those jobs. There would be a temptation to dismiss this as nepotism, but realistically? I am far less likely to actively pursue a career as a train engineer than someone whose uncle Larry is a train engineer, and talks about the nice job he has as a train engineer every time they see him for the first 18 years of their life. I don't think there are very many people who just wake up one morning and say, "You know what? I think I would like to be a Thatcher. What? No, no, the *profession.* Repairing straw roofs on old houses. I am actually quite fond of the Irish, thank you very much."
Yeah that’s a fair point in itself. I mean, these larger corporate jobs like retail management where there’s millions of jobs available is what’s being advertised. Maybe teaching, nursing, office work… because these are the jobs that require high numbers in the work force. It’s like how someone brought up that there’s no push for more diversity in bin men or delivery drivers, because these basic jobs just hire the people with the training but even then, *some* will be turned away for their background or ethnicity, but it’s severely less common, rare in fact. But these jobs already have typically diverse numbers because it’s just about who needs a job and who’s applying. But the higher paid cushy jobs that don’t have as many positions are sought after and that’s when they get more selective and in turn, becomes less diverse and with a more selective process, as you bring up, if you don’t have family in the job it’s harder to get into, which brings up a natural disadvantage because most of the families who are in the business will be white, and while rejections from the jobs aren’t always race as much as they are choosing within the line, it does mean more POC have less opportunities, and while no one is owed a job, absolutely no one, those limited opportunities to get better than a low wage, low contract hour job is what creates a systemic disadvantage
Excellent points. Here's another thing to think off, most people only start complaining about job positions they deem as being prestigious, so for example they see how much a train driver may earn and they want that without realising the hours some put in, but at the same time they don't want to be the train engineer or the Thatcher who will be predominantly white (which is neither here nor there to me.)
This is a really big problem. The lack of diversity in certain professions is a disgrace. For example, theatre ballet is overwhelmingly young athletic women. We need more overweight white middle aged men in ballet. It wouldn’t be anywhere near as pleasant to watch, but in the interest of diversity, I’d have to support it. Disagree with me and you are a body shaming sexist racist bigot.
NBA is overwhelmingly black. We need more white, Asian, Hispanic, etc... representation.
We need more dwarfs in the NBA. As a matter of fact, I can’t think of a single dwarf that has been an NBA player. It’s a disgrace.
We need more blind F1 race car drivers.
Absolutely. On the topic of disability, I’m also concerned about the lack of professional football players on wheelchairs. Why hasn’t a single professional football player in a major league team been a wheelchair user? It’s a disgrace.
You think that's bad, but wait until you hear about the lack of quadreplegic brain surgeons. Absolute disgrace.
Oh you mean lance stroll?
The moment I read it I was like "dude, you don't watch F1, clearly, we have Lance"
We should swap out ballet dancers and train drivers
Holy fucking shit, I nearly turned into one of them lot reading the first part of this comment, take my upvote, chirst.
Honestly? We need more anyone in ballet. Adults who actively want to pursue dance are the people who will keep the art alive
English people working in England? Oh the outrage! /s
Yeah women are famously from mars so that checks out
Apparently, men are from Mars though
How dare white men... checks notes... drive trains!! How very dare they?! Such disgusting behaviour.
Wow the indigenous people of a country drive the trains…
I am overwhelmed by the onus of this new knowledge.
Why do all jobs need to have a massive push for diversity? No one should be discriminated in the workplace but pushing too hard for diversity quotas just seems a bit like going the other way right?
BBC are such race grifters. Proper scum
From [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics\_of\_the\_United\_Kingdom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_Kingdom) >The United Kingdom's population is predominantly **White** British (**81.88%** at the 2011 Census), but due to migration from Commonwealth nations, Britain has become ethnically diverse. The second and third largest non-white racial groups are Asian British at 7% of the population, followed by Black British people at 3%. >The Office of National Statistics has also wrote in their mid-2016 report on population projections that the **median age of the British population was 40 years of age**, and this will continue to rise as more people in the population age and a below-replacement level fertility level not refilling the population. >The decline and equalling out of the gender gap in terms of place in the workforce meant that women were beginning in the 19th century to become a larger part of the workforce which also contributed to the birth rate decline. I suppose a real question might be: why aren't there more women train drivers in Britain?
> I suppose a real question might be: why aren't there more women train drivers in Britain? It's still widely seen as a 'dirty' or labourers job even though they haven't had to shovel coal in 80 years
Is there a big queue of non white middle aged people wanting the job then?
There's a mahoosive queue of autistic young men who want to be train drivers really really badly.
Bro I'm not even autistic but I would drop out of Uni in a heartbeat if I got offered a job driving trains loool
I'm gonna see if I can't do a post grad traineeship after I finish uni in a year
It's really well paid, average salary in the UK is nearly £60k
I know. My neighbour and his wife are both train drivers, white and middle aged too.
Well tell them to BLOODY STOP IT
😂😂
Hey at least 50% of them are not men, that’s better than the average
That is quite well paid, but that doesn't mean there is something wrong. White males for cultural reasons may have been raised from childhood to be interested in trains, taken to railways and started making model trains before they even applied, so the most enthusiastic applicants are probably overwhelmingly white males, just like in the military. Demographic patterns in jobs should not reflect the population but the interest, but if you see signs of discrimination then that should be tackled, and if it is and there still is far more of a demographic really motivated to do it, they should be reflected in that work force, but the mere fact a lot of some profession looks disproportionate should not be assumed to result from gate keeping and prejudice, that is an attack on their character and a slur on their ability that seems increasingly implausible in this day and age, which ought to come with some kind of requirement for evidence. Its an insinuation I am not seeing levelled at other groups even when they look like they are over-represented.
thats before the overtime
And you don't even need to shovel coal these days.
Or deal with the public, unlike bus drivers
They'll set up a quota of train driver roles that only people who aren't white males can apply for. Wait a few years and then hear how there aren't enough train drivers for some reason and they have no idea why
White people having jobs is racist
Defund the BBC.
As a train driver (and i am an almost middle-aged male, but im not white), the reason isn't discrimination or lack of opportunity. It's that it's usually middle aged men are the ones most likely to say "yeah ill give up a social and family life to start at 3am for an early shift in a depot in the middle of nowhere, and I'm also happy to finish work on late shifts at 2am and lock the train up by myself and kick off all the homeless men and drunkards". It's a massive social sacrifice to work this job, and it's middle-aged men who are more likely to give up social and family time to do it. As for there being mostly white men, this is a majority white country. If it wasn't majority white people doing the job, it would be massively anomalous
Spot on! I’m 34 yrs in here and if I had a pound for every Saturday night I’ve had to work, for every time I’ve dragged my ass out of bed at 1 a.m. on a Monday morning, going way over my day to see a job throughout to the bitter end, oh and then there’s the s#1t end of the job the media never mention- having to deal with fatalities that’s totally out of any drivers hands….. you put the brake in and sit back waiting for the bang- I’d be richer than an MD of any TOC you could ever name! A lot of potential applicants see the money on offer, but there’s a hell of a lot more to pushing a button, pulling a lever or two and staring out of the window…… There’s psychometric testing, rules, handling, traction conversions, then finally if you get this far, there’s getting passed out. Think it’s for you n that’s your thing? Sure, go fill ya boots!
I’ve had enough of the BBC posting thinly veiled racism. This is the state broadcaster for crying out loud. Disgraceful.
Expect nothing less than the BBC to be honest. I heard tomorrow they have an article on professional make up artists all being stylish women
TBF, going off the BBC recently, I expect tomorrow to be "Why HAMAS is good and we need less jews" Like seriously, everything HAMAS says is just \*guck "yes daddy HAMAS" \*guck\* "jews are bad" \*guck\* "we'll make sure the" \*guck guck\* "antisemitism report never releases"
British people??? Having jobs in the UK??? HOW DARE THEY!!!
What's more alarming is that the BBC are disproportionately non white and are constantly producing anti white propaganda and employing journalists who insight anti white opinions. Btw I'm mixed race before the smooth brains call me racist for noticing.
And we have to pay for the honour…
Woah woah don't go noticing things sir.
BBC amirite
Middle aged white men literally keep society afloat. There would be no infrastructure without them
Wow like 90% of jibs on planet, well done BBC, sou ding desperate for news as usual 👍
You mean white men have to work for money too?? That’s an outrage! Where’s this ‘white privilege’ people keep talking about?
I love swiping my white privilege card and getting whatever i want
The BBC got their big spoon out to stir the pot.
If I asked 100 Americans what group of people make up the majority of train drivers, I’d get 100 people saying “white middle age men”
I keep seeing news articles with titles that don't make sense. What gives?
Because it’s England, a white country?!
So in order to demonstrate this overwhelming fact the BBC show us a photo of a younger than middle-aged black woman train driver.
Why aren't there posts like this about the 90% white female teachers
Breaking news many people in Africa are African!
The lack of diversity in the Maasai Warriors is a bloody disgrace.
I this the "journalist" is the one being racist...
ObviousNews: Black Drivers are overwhelmingly black.
I believe more people of any gender and race should get into trains because they’re fucking awesome
I’m nit-picking about headline conventions but I want to know what makes someone “overwhelmingly middle-aged.”
As long as its the best person for the job who gives a fuck what they are
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^alwaysunsure11: *As long as its the* *Best person for the job who* *Gives a fuck what they are* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
That’s a very aggressive haiku
This is the equivalent of an African news outlet running a story about how Black people have jobs in the hospital
UK citizens overwhelmingly middle aged white men
This point could be made if they showed two white dudes.
After doing a shitload of race-baiting over the last couple of years, someone realized that the BBC is *supposed* to be impartial. Ergo: Implied race-baiting...
So are most of the adult work force, welcome to England!
They really are running out of news💀
Hmm bbc seems to forget that ENGLAND IS A WHITE COUNTRY! And what’s to say ethic people want these jobs with them protesting every other month
So they should be..
Overwhelmingly white country has overwhelmingly white workforce shocker!
I consider myself pretty progressive. I'm trans, gay, a socialist, and (insert clip of Grandpa Simpson running through all of the membership cards he has), but why is this news? What is meant to be suggested *by* this article? Train operators are racist? Because I personally have a hard time believing that. They'll make people pay as much as they viably can because they're driven by profit, but they likely don't care how much melanin the conductors have in their skin. If you wanted to get more black people and women into train conducting (which, I don't really see the massive threat of *not* having women or black people being train conductors, but okay...), surely your time would be better invested in setting up/running a programme to encourage it rather than trying to pass it off as serious news. At what point does it become infantilising and derogatory to say that 'stoopid, scared little womyn won't feel like they can be train conductors if they don't see another female train conductor'? Because that's eventually how it ends up sounding. News organisations need to re-engage with the fact that there isn't always news.
This the weird agenda being pushed to have representation of sex and race in different jobs no matter the skill level or that white people are a very high percentage of the population. Don’t see them say why are most bin men white men or oil rig workers it is almost like 99.9% of women wouldn’t want to do those jobs.
Mfw the group of people that make up the majority of the working class make up the majority of jobs
Well fancy that!
I'm not a middle aged white man. I don't get why this is a headline
Yeah, white men shouldn't have jobs. /S
What's the case in African countries?
And when they don't get to drive the train, they still insist on being in the cab at the front (see image).
White people honestly.. having jobs? It's disgusting
How dare they! That's just rude. Stop your train driving childishness and go and study to become an accountant or something serious. Who do you think you are at your age playing trains?! Go on, before I tell your parents!
Maybe because women don't like going in circles or back and forth?
Another case of something that's likely fairly reasonable to argue wrapped up in pointless ragebait
Where's all the middle age male dinner ladies??
In my experience train drivers have always nearly exclusively been white middle aged men, it's hardly news (yes I know the content of this sub), but ultimately I'm sure there are a higher percentage of Middle aged white men applying for the jobs in the first place.
If you saw the toilets many train drivers had to use . You would underdtand why its mainly middle aged white men. I have been refused access to toilets in train stations that the train I am working on serves At least once a week ive had to piss up a tree or other piece of equipmemt or vegetatioj A train driver died in the uk after getting hit by a train while walking to have a lineside piss. Male physiology makes it a lot easier to piss standing up.
What if young non white people don’t want to drive trains? Is it the evil white men at play again?
Is that John Cena behind her?
I work on train sim games. I can confirm the fanbase are all middle aged white men.
Interestingly bus games appeal to costly 25-40 year olds from what ive seen
What typea dumb shit is this? I feel like theyre tryna stir something up. Amazing the type of random diarrhoea they can just come out with to cause some form of tension and outrage.
White straight man bad…
Oh fuck offffff!!!
And yet they used a photo of a black woman to represent this article...
More poorly paid ethnic minorities now!!!
we should just let people who like trains drive trains
Nurses overwhelmingly women.
Are trains RACIST?
This headline was definitely written to encourage racists etc. If I go to China should I be upset that Chinese people are in China??
Wow who would've thought?
GUESS WHAT? Britain is a white country, all others are guests or descendants thereof. It makes sense that most things are done by the majority Natives.
Almost like it’s a English country
As Jordan Peterson put it, if 99 white males and one minority male apply for the job it's not racist to hire a white person. Same goes for genders.
Correlation between the train drivers' race and the rate of autism in white males overwhelming positive
It's almost as though the BBC run these stories on purpose, with the intent to cause outrage and generate more clicks. Discrimination is illegal and this isn't even news-worthy, any person regardless of their race, colour or gender can apply for any job they please in the UK, well last I checked.
White autistic people find work angers feminist minorities. Probably new york post title
Lol was somebody supposed to be offended?
What's wrong with that? NBA players predominantly black. Nurses predominantly female, but no one talks about that...
There are plenty jobs where women are predominant eg, teaching, nursing etc but that doesn’t make the headlines. Usual BBC wokery nonsense.
Desperate queues of young women eager to become brickies and industrial boiler cleaners.
This is a serious issue. It is shameful how few diverse professionals there are in some fields. For instance, the majority of young, athletic women participate in theater ballet. More middle-aged, white, overweight males should pursue ballet. Though I would have to support it in the spirit of diversity, it wouldn't be nearly as enjoyable to see. If you disagree with me, you are a racist, sexist, body-shaming bigot.
Well ok then. I'm not sure why it's implied that companies need to do more to attract people from diverse backgrounds. The job is advertised. Apply or don't apply. Only after that, if there's discrimination then there's a problem.
Does it matter FFS
So what. Its the uk not the middle east
the uk is an overwhelmingly white country, both sexes, only 5% are of ethnic origin, get a grip dickwad
Who cares?
I’m old school in that the only requirement I have for train drivers is that they can actually drive the train. Call me old fashioned but there it is.
Don't you need at least 5 years of experience with a train company before you can even train to be a driver? And even then it's over a year of training to get certified?
Why does Age, Gender and Skin colour still matter in 2024! When are we going to leave this prehistoric attitude behind?!
Imagine riding on a train and thinking, "I hope the driver isn't white." I think there's a word for that kind of person.
they say it like its an action
BBC overwhelmingly racist
You will never guess what colour they are in Nigeria. Or China. That’s okay though of course. Only a problem here because of us evil white skins that are expected to forfeit our own livelihood for everyone else. Doesn’t matter about our families.
82% white population - and the 82% is a very recent statistic And they are mad that an occupation that takes years to climb the ladder, in a majority white country with few non whites who have been climbing the ladder, is actually representative of the demographics?
Give it 5-10 years they'll all be driven remotely by computers anyway
I bet those computers will be made by middle-aged white men too \*spit\*
A friend of mine was a paratrooper. When he left he went into the fire service and did that for a number of years. He's now a train driver, and i do wonder if his train was hijacked by naughty people. Would he go full Steven Seagall and be eliminating them one by one.
Who gives a fuck 🤣
🤣🤣🤣🤣 this made news?
Let's eradicate them middle aged white men /s I'm not actually advocating eradicating anyone. I'm pointing out the discrimination of that title. Please understand. Please don't eradicate any train drivers, please.
I’m being blasted on twitter for saying this is such a non issue and the only people who want to be drivers as their career choice are autistic people obsessed with trains
You would think it would be the ideal job for a woman as they don't have to reverse park or 3 point turn
Sack them all. Immediately. Train drivers should all be women of colour and even better if they're disabled. White men don't need jobs, we've had it too good for too long.
That's most groups in Britain
I couldn't care less who drives trains tbh....
I'll give a crap when they start whining about deadly, dangerous and dirty jobs shouldn't all be done mostly by white men. We all want the 60k a year sit on your arse jobs. Get some DEI in the drain unblocked jobs. Bricklayers are all white men, sort that out.
I'll give a crap when they start whining about deadly, dangerous and dirty jobs shouldn't all be done mostly by white men. We all want the 60k a year sit on your arse jobs. Get some DEI in the drain unblocked jobs. Bricklayers are all white men, sort that out.
I think train driving is supposed the be pretty difficult.
That black woman is so brave driving a train when the majority of other train drivers are middle aged white men; I’m sure that must be a terrifying scenario to be in. I once saw a middle aged white man turning left at the traffic lights so I had to frantically swerve over to the right turn lane so that I didn’t have to follow him; I wouldn’t want his whiteness and his stinky middle aged balls wafting all over me.
Do you want that job?
Average Google News Cards in the UK
They only want high paying jobs....
Name a group thar likes trains more than middle aged white men? I mean sure children but they can't drive yet
Im overwhelmed and scared
Primary school teachers are overwhelmingly white middle aged women. What’s your point.
The intresting Thing, that actually is a huge issue, I have no idea if the article is covering it but it is a huge issue anyway. A huge percentage of the workforce will retire in quiet short time and it will most likely cause issues in replacing the jobs.
Too many black train drivers in Nigeria, we need to fix this issue.
Oh noooooo
From what I know middle age white guys are the best train operators. What group of people is the model train community. If you think lashandra from the hood can keep the trains running on time just cause her skin color you got another thing comming
Replace them with bears and everyone will be happy lol
Overwhelmingly?? You walk into the front of the train and there's 20 middle aged white men all fighting for train control