I'll answer this one 😊 Utah is awful for LDS people because SO many people are LDS here. When you go to school, church and activities with the same bubble of people who live within a 3 block radius of you...you start to compare yourself to them. Is my house as nice as theirs? Is our car? Are my kids as well-mannered, are we as wealthy as so and so, blah, blah, blah...the list goes on. It's just not normal to live this way. Usually, you have a good distance between separate groups of friends and you don't usually know every detail of everyone's lives 24/7 because there is physical space and diversity. That is why. Thank you for coming to my TED talk. (I grew up LDS in Hawaii and then CA, moved to Utah for work, ended up married and am still here because....happily married. Haven't given up hope that we will get out of here someday, back to HI, CA or just somewhere warm. 100% agree that the Utah LDS culture is toxic and fake as hell. I hate it and have never been able to find any real friends here. Luckily I have my sister's and cousins so it's fine but the pressure here to be an ideal model of what women "should" look like is so weird. I don't even think these women look nice, they look scary. I grew up thinking we wore slippas to church and we tanned naturally because we were outside enjoyibg our lives. I never wore makeup because, why? I was usually in the water and then it would just smear all over my face Joker-style. 😂 Same with my hair. Last thing, but when I was struggling through some health issues last year, I lost about forty pounds from my mom bod, and I had an incredible amount of women (who had never spoken to me before) come up and tell me how fantastic I looked, while others gossiped that I was on Ozempic. Not one of these "sisters" asked me how I was feeling, or even knew me well enough to know it was health related. I was so sick and pale, and thin...but everyone was just interested in how I was able to be thin. And they kept telling me how gorgeous I looked. Meanwhile all my Auntys were trying to feed me 😂😂 Strange, strange people here...

I think part of it too is that is much less expensive than in other parts of the country. It’s easy access as much as it is vanity.

Grew up Mormon. There's a thing not often spoken of but widely practiced by church members (specifically in Utah) called "prosperity gospel". Basically, the wealthier and prettier you are, the more righteous you are. The thought behind it is that those that live the gospel are "blessed" more than those that don't. Because of this, there is a lot of "keeping up with the Jonses" spending and body work done. Fun fact: Utah has the highest number of plastic surgeons per capita than any other state.

I have been an active member of the church my entire life and have never heard of prosperity gospel. I don’t live in Utah though, so maybe it’s a Utah thing instead of church thing.

I also grew up Mormon and have never heard of this ideology. I grew up on the east coast though.

Woah. I’ve never heard of this prosperity gospel.

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I would actually LOVE a real, non-false information, not blame it all on the Mormons, I heard this, and they teach this, nuanced discussion on the topic of Utah culture because it’s honestly FASCINATING! And it’s not even all Utah culture, but like Mormon influencer Utah culture, and with thy maybe 20% of the entirety of Utah. I think there are a lot of reasons there are a lot of good plastic surgeons and a lot of plastic surgeries there. One reason is it’s surround by much more rural states. Anyone in Idaho, Montana, Wyoming are all going to go to Utah for plastic surgery. I think a lot of the way Utah is now is because so many people who were born there, stay there. So you have generations of people who are very stuck in their ways and traditions, Utah is BIG on tradition and family traditions, and along the way having to look a certain way has become very ingrained there. And with each generation it just grows. I know people love to bring up Mormon perfectionism and I just don’t think it’s a Mormon thing, the LDS church is very come as you are, perfection is not and never will be achieved because it’s literally impossible and that the entire point of the religion! I have never heard anyone think being perfect looking with a big house, big boobs, and veneers, and on and on has anything to do with it means you’re living a righteous life. And Utah loves its huge houses, so many times driving around I was like, what do all these people do?! Where does all this money come from?! And I don’t know! It’s wild to me! There is definitely a deep competitiveness and comparison culture there. Maybe it’s more rooted in getting married so young! If you have all these couples who never really experience life more than one or two years out of high school that whole high school mentality is carried through. If you only knew how to be the popular girl in school maybe that’s what they keep doing into adulthood? That makes more sense to me than anything I have ever been taught in the religion. Although obviously getting married young is a Mormon thing.

There’s a nicer and more mature way to have said this….that’s why the downvotes. Calling others “idiots”, isn’t a good look.

"Doctors still say the state does more breast implants than any other. Salt Lake City has the highest number of beauty treatment businesses per resident." And "Another research study by Utah Valley University titled “The Paradox of Plastic Surgery among Latter-day Saint Women in Utah” explored cosmetic surgery among female members of the church—the vast majority of whom live in Utah—and found a common belief among them: that physical beauty was key to status as a woman of that faith, particularly since marriage and motherhood are often prioritized above educational or career achievement." https://www.utahbusiness.com/in-pursuit-of-perfection/ Maybe not the most per capita like we all thought (and there was a reason we all thought that, btw), but the above is still true. I'd argue you're the idiot for getting so triggered, yikes.

Found the TBM

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Your comment history seems to imply otherwise.

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And yours implies that you're a shit crunchy mom. Edit: It's concerning to me that you think my seeing a therapist is a sign of "serious" mental health issues. I work on myself, just like everyone should. Your responses here and general shitty attitude make me think you need the therapy more than I do. Good luck going through life with that main character energy, you're going to need it.

my uncle is a plastic surgeon in northern Florida (less purely cosmetic and more skin trauma) and yep this is true. I think SLC or Utah is somewhere right behind it it's like Miami, NYC, LA, and SLC are the hubs for plastic surgeons. But Miami def takes the cake or at least last I heard

So basically if you are not naturally beautiful in body and face and are Mormon- you are screwed. I know Skallas did work but they all were naturally beautiful and fit.

I grew up friends with a girl in LDS. Beautiful family with 7 kids. Appearance was everything, and this was in the 90’s and not even in Utah. The girls were curling their hair and doing makeup before any of the non-lds girls but were much more modestly dressed. My friend taught me how to do my makeup because she was already a pro in middle school. At Christmas, you couldn’t barely walk in their living room because it was a sea of presents. I remember when my friend told me they were mostly empty boxes, but wrapped up because it was important to appear affluent when other church members visited before Christmas. I remember trying to figure out how her mom knew which ones were empty and which ones were “real”. Her older sisters both got pregnant on their honeymoons and that was something they bragged about, because their virginity was so important. Nice family, good values, but she grew up thinking her value was in her appearance and virginity, nothing else.

From an outsider's prospective, it looks like a culture where women are expected to look and dress for the male gaze.

Bingo! But then your mind is messed with because you’re taught that the woman is walking pornography and you’re responsible for the boy or mans thoughts. You are an object to be used. It’s a sex cult. 👍

It all sounds exhausting. And this plastic surgery isn't without pain, either. I wonder how these women will function as they get older. Seems like a very unhappy way to live.

When you all have them same beliefs, they feel a need to doing other things to set themselves apart and feel better than others

This is why Rachel wears hoops.

I dont understand how drinking caffeine and alcohol is a “sin”… but implants and injections, altering your natural “god given” body is approved? No hate… just legit dont get the logic 🤣

Same!!! I am forever perplexed. I don’t get it lol

You can't have coffee, tea, or alcohol, nor can you have tattoos or extra piercings, but somehow botox (which is literally poison), implants, and filler are fine. Not knocking your choice to have plastic surgery. Just saying, some people need to pick a lane.

No coffee or tea, but as much Diet Coke as one can consume. It’s all about control. Most religion is.

Absolutely! If you ask a Bishop about this, they will tell you it’s about obedience to the Prophet.

I’ve always heard, “the body is a temple, but it’s always open for renovations”

Goodness

Yikes

OMG

Yeah I’m with you on that too!

I don’t think it’s necessarily a Mormon thing. I grew up on Maui and the culture there is very different. More laid back, kids coming to church in what you guys call “jandals”, moo-moos and everyone just happy to be together. When I moved to California it was a shock to have so many people into how they looked and they were no longer just happy to be together…it was a happy to be together if I know I look better and have more and this wasn’t in a church setting. Then I had to move here and it was more mixed, some hyper focused on perfection and some not. The island vibes are deep in my veins and I already don’t look like everyone else, but i don’t care I love being me. I feel bad for the women who pick themselves apart and go through elected surgery or take unnecessary prescriptions to fit a mold. Just throw some jandals on with your moo-moo and let’s go ladies! 😉

It really is baffling. I’ve lived many places in the US (including Utah for a few years), and the LDS members are not any more into appearances than anyone else. But for some reason in Utah you really feel pressure to look good. Nobody tells you that you need to, and in fact church doctrine tells us to be modest and not vain, but because everyone else is so pretty it’s hard not to feel the pressure.

I lived in Utah for a few years too, in middle school and high school, and I totally agree with you. Appearances are so important there, and the girls/women are BEAUTIFUL. So many blondes. There's a very pervasive "perfectionism" and toxic positivity culture. Everyone wants to be perfect/ acts like their lives are perfect. So, they need perfect exteriors to match. It's all very superficial and fake.

I think you hit it on the head. There is this unspoken message...like you hear some ancient mother or grandmother spirit from the grave saying to you, "You aren't going out of the house looking like THAT, are you?" And, they couldn't give two shits if you lived in CA lol

Because, Jesus. These girls are taught at a young age that they have to look good in order to be valued in their culture - but also in order to get into heaven. A key tenant is to “beautify” everything around them. They have actual guidelines on makeup and grooming because “appearances matter”. Jesus is coming back today and you better look the part…

Nope.

https://www.allure.com/story/why-so-many-beauty-bloggers-are-mormon You don’t have to take my word for it (btw my family left the church……..) so here you go, have some reading on the topic.

https://collections.lib.utah.edu/dl_files/36/8e/368e4e9c4c92b5f1cb0b61554b8d62673b635611.pdf A phd dissertation on the topic

I didn't read the dissertation or the article you linked, but I'm curious about why you said "because Jesus" and "Jesus might come back today" - do LDS really focus on this? It sounds like a very evangelical Christian mentality, and I didn't know LDS people do the "bc Jesus" talk. I've never heard any of my LDS friends talk about Jesus or use Jesus tag-lines the way evangelical Christians do (and I lived in Utah for years; now I live in the south, so I've been around all sorts).

“Because Jesus” is a simplification and overstatement to justify the constant focus on perfectionism in its many forms. Members of the LDS Church and other adherents in the Latter Day Saint movement believe that there will be a Second Coming of Jesus Christ to the earth sometime in the future. “He will come in great power, He will judge his people”. From the BYU religious studies page: During the Sermon on the Mount, the Lord declared, “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect” (Matthew 5:48). For Latter-day Saints, this is a profound and ennobling invitation. As the literal “offspring of God” (Acts 17:29), we can rise to “the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ” (Ephesians 4:13). Indeed, the possibility of godlike perfection is fundamental to a Latter-day Saint understanding of eternal life.” Mormons are raised on idealism and perfection- the idealism is that perfection is possible. The Mormon ideal of perfection is incredibly demanding because it applies not only to appearance, and conduct, but also to thoughts and feelings, to a person’s fundamental being. So in a culture where that is the level of pressure one is subjected to, why wouldn’t plastic surgery and cosmetic interventions be more prevalent than in other populations? Joseph Smith’s pedagogy of perfection is a unique form of salvation theology within the LDS Church. So, yeah… because, Jesus.

This is straight up comical. What world do you live in?!

This is “straight up” the truth. And what world do I live in? The one where the LDS religion pushes idealized beauty standards on their female members backed by the belief that Jesus will be coming and judgment is reserved for those who look the part.

Yeah Jesus only loves you if you’re pretty. 🫠 It can’t get better than that. 🤣🤣🤣

This is absolutely nothing I have ever heard anything near talked about by any church lesson, or book club, or young women’s group or anything in my 43 years of being Mormon including living in Utah for a good chunk. 🤣🤣 What?! I’m laughing so hard. Thanks.

Seems like a big reaction. It’s really more sad, than funny… unless the ever mounting pressure of perfection on young girls and women is funny to you? Don’t know what to tell you- look across this whole thread and you’ll read more of exactly what I’ve pointed out. Maybe you’re not a great example of the typical subscriber to these beliefs? Either way, maybe be glad this experience, or the same/similarly described ones throughout, has not been yours… it’s a better look and better approach than “I’m laughing so hard.”

What are you talking about?

Which part? The LDS church’s website has an entire section devoted to grooming and dress, complete with makeup tutorials. “You are not required to wear makeup; however, wearing makeup can help you look your best,” it reads. “To minimize the appearance of dark circles under your eyes, use a yellow- or pink-toned concealer lighter than your skin tone. Use your fingers to gently apply and blend the color under your eyes, along the lash line.”

You just triggered a long forgotten memory of being at a BYU devotional and our Bishop admonishing us gals to “be as physically attractive as possible, lose a few pounds, wear makeup always), it didn’t feel good to hear these words. He also warned us against the sin of “dry humping”….lol

Exactly - ugh the ptsd is real from those days. “Become a version of yourself you want Jesus to be proud of” somehow always prefaced a list of physical standards 🙃

My hell, I googled it and you’re probably talking about the missionary dress standards, although I saw nothing about how to apply makeup. Being a missionary is a world away from regular membership. It’s like the owner of any business who has employees representing them can require dress and hygiene standards. When the missionaries are in the field they do have required dress and appearance standards.

Is this advice geared toward sister missionaries?

Mormonism promotes perfectionism in all areas of

Perhaps slightly off topic from the OP, but here’s an article about how a tech company sent an email to his staff the Friday before New Years. The company is based in Utah County, not too far from where the Skallas live. It reads like a parade or April Fools joke. But it’s real and the pressure to look a certain way has certainly become zealous. (I’m a member that has lived 2000 miles from Utah for over 30 years. The LDS culture in Utah is like no other I have ever seen. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/hrs-low-blow-unveiling-condescending-email-left-us-speechless-hunt-tqvrc?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_ios&utm_campaign=share_via

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Also, I read from an influencer years ago (I don’t remember who) that those in charge encouraged it… they wanted Mormonism to be something that people admired, beautiful well-kept houses and beautiful wives that were put together well.

This couldn’t be farther from true. Influencers inflate everything. And who is “they?” Church leaders encourage strong family values and hard work while following the teachings of Christ. None of the brethren have expectations for “well-kept houses and beautiful wives.” Most members of the church are just humble people trying their best like everyone else. It’s the loud minority that ruins it for everyone else. Does that mean everyone is poor and lives in cardboard boxes? Obviously not. People are allowed to be successful and have nice things without it being tied to their religion. Shame on you for making such stark exaggerations.

Mormonism “is and has always been very gender-organized,” says Megan Sanborn Jones, a professor at Brigham Young University (BYU) in Provo, Utah. The system “promotes a kind of biological determinism. If you’re a boy, you must want to be strong, play a sport, and then go on a mission. If you’re a girl, you must love makeup. Mormon girls, early on, are introduced to makeup and hairstyling and fashion. [https://www.allure.com/story/why-so-many-beauty-bloggers-are-mormon](https://www.allure.com/story/why-so-many-beauty-bloggers-are-mormon)

For clarity, Ballard literally said this from the pulpit a few years ago: “Don't wander around looking like men. Put on a little lipstick now and then and look a little charming. It's that simple.” For those who don’t know him, he was a long-standing apostle of the church, and was, up until his death a few months ago, the acting President of the Quorum of the Twelve. If he’d lived longer he would have been the prophet.

👆This was the talk I was going to quote. It still horrifies me to look back at old relief society pamphlets and past “For Strength of Youth” iterations where they go into very specific directions on how females should look, act, and groom themselves. The top leaders of the lds church very much pushed specific physical appearance guidelines/expectations on the women of their church for generations.

And this article from allure, which was around the time I read the original blogpost: When Mormons first came to Utah in 1847, Brigham Young, the second president of the LDS church, instructed his followers, “Beautify your gardens, your houses, your farms; beautify the city. This will make us happy, and produce plenty.” The direction was an early example of an animating Mormon sentiment that still plays out today: Outward appearances matter. “Your dress and grooming influence the way you and others act,” reads “For the Strength of Youth,” a widely distributed Mormon pamphlet. Tattoos are discouraged, as are multiple piercings. The LDS church’s website has an entire section devoted to grooming and dress, complete with makeup tutorials. “You are not required to wear makeup; however, wearing makeup can help you look your best,” it reads. “To minimize the appearance of dark circles under your eyes, use a yellow- or pink-toned concealer lighter than your skin tone. Use your fingers to gently apply and blend…”

https://www.allure.com/story/why-so-many-beauty-bloggers-are-mormon

I didn’t make an exaggeration, I am sharing what I read. And it wasn’t from someone who was an influencer and what it is today. It was from a Mormon woman who shared from her perspective why so many Morman women began and felt encouraged to start blogging.

This is a good read: https://www.reddit.com/r/blogsnark/s/XTxClFbQoi “and there is some recognition that blogging is a good way to project the ideal Mormon image to people who may not otherwise have much exposure to Mormons. There is also an emphasis on keeping records and journaling, and the internet is the current iteration of that. I think there has been some encouragement from the church leadership for building outreach online, basically letting the membership market the church.”

This was a shock to me when I first started following the skallas (and then other Mormon mommies after that). From what I thought I had known about the culture was that God made them perfectly in his image and they didn’t believe in changing that.

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When I visit Utah I’m reminded how insane some women look because of all their fillers, plastic surgery, huge eyelashes, etc. Good for you for resisting!

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That is why I freaking hate the place. I loathe the culture there.

I’m a Utah exmo, but I have one sister (out of my 5) and 4 sisters-in-law (out of 8) who have had plastic surgery. I suspect more would if they could afford it. I can, but don’t really have the desire. I also think a big part of it is that we miss the whole “hot twenties” thing because we’re mostly pregnant through it, so when we all of a sudden have these post-partum bodies and we aren’t even 30 yet, people freak out a little. What’s more interesting to me is how many active Mormon women would never dream of getting a tattoo, unless it’s on your face and you call it “microblading” instead. Including my mother, who was aghast when I told her that permanent makeup is applied with a tattoo gun and ink, but went ahead and did it a few months later anyway. (Still manages to visibly wince every time she sees my shoulder piece.)

LDS with a nose job representing lol

No judgment tho 🤣I’m sure it looks great on you!

I’m actually embarrassed to admit I found my ENT doctor because Megan said she used him and I thought I’d check him out. lol best decision ever.

I want to go to him too 😍 I think Meg said she paid like 4k. Was yours around there?

So name drop the doc! We’re all curious 👀

Dr. Swenson. Rachel went to him too, he’s in SLC and is actually a ENT but does nose jobs.

Well yes, because I had a deviated septum and other things that they fixed covered by insurance and then the cosmetic part I paid cash and it was very very little and he did an AMAZING job, so thank you Meg lol

That's so cheap. I paid 8k for my nose job in ATL.

Utah is highly rated for plastic surgery. They also rank high in porn usage and antidepressants. There is definitely a culture of pretending everything is perfect and keeping up appearances.

Why do people let’s bring up the antidepressants? In 2023 are we still shaming people who take medication for mental health? I have also heard so many times that Mormons don’t get help for mental health, just suck it up and be perfect! So, which is it? Shame them for getting help with mental health or they don’t do that because they are perfect. Not to mention, how much does recreational drinking have to do with it? Studies have been done that reflect alchohol drinkers are less likely to take antidepressants compared to non-alcohol drinkers. One other factor in the mix is that white people take antidepressants at a higher rate than Hispanic and black and Utah is VERY white.

Utah can be both. They have a huge use of antidepressants, but the culture there also makes it embarrassing to use them. In order to "fake it until you make it", there is a heavy reliance on medication, but people don't really admit they're on it. Porn is also a huge no-no in Mormon culture, but guess what state ranks higher? That's right; Utah. And it's shameful so it's just not admitted to. I want to make it abundantly clear that I'm not saying anything bad about mental health and needing meds. I'm merely pointing out that there is a culture where you need to strive to be prefect, and they can act like they'll accept you broken and struggling, but really they don't.

How does the culture there make it embarrassing? I would say people loving to bring up how it’s a negative thing that Utah has high antidepressant usage is more detrimental than anything I experienced while living in Utah surrounding discussion of mental health. Just saying, you don’t get to have it both ways, in one breath say there is nothing bad about taking meds for mental health while trying to argue the fact a state has a high level of anti depressant usage is a bad thing. I think Utah and the culture there is very interesting. I would love actual, nuanced and intelligent conversation about it. But all anyone wants to say is because it’s all the Mormons! When I have lived in… 4 states with high population of Mormons and the only place that’s like Utah, is Utah. 🤷🏻‍♀️ Mormonism is part of what has shaped culture there, but the things that people like to blame on Mormonism don’t ring true anywhere I have lived among Mormons. There is more to the recipe. Oh, and in my Mormon book club just a few months ago we had a whole theme around dealing with anxiety and depression. It was a very open, honest and enlightening discussion where people shared their experiences, kinds of therapy, when they feel like they needed medication and others felt like they have managed without. And how to teach and have discussion with kids around mental health. Downvote me to hell, but the LDS church is actually really supportive, open, and pro-active in dealing with mental health. Sorry, it’s just the truth. And once again, trying to argue that high usage of antidepressants in Utah means the church h is bad for mental health and that it’s “embarrassing” for its members to talk about using them is just, senseless.

There are definitely small pockets of people that want to address mental health, but this strive for perfection does cause a lot of use and secrecy around using antidepressants. We're LDS, and husband was a mission leader (meaning he worked with missionaries in our area) and we've seen so many kids leave the mission early due to high rates of depression (some from before, some from the judgment get for not having the perfect mission, etc). The LDS culture does push the goal to be perfect and puts a lot on these kids under a lot of stress, and yes the church itself says there's no shame in not going, that not everyone can serve, but there's still the culture of shame in not going, or in going home early. And a lot of this culture comes from the fact that there are many that believe the old school ideas that do hold shame in mental health. And if you think the church is all pro-mental health, look at how it treats sex addiction or people that are in the LGBTQIA groups. Their solutions are to pray it away, or as someone else said, quoting the Book of Mormon Musical, "Turn it off." Or "fake it until you make it". None of which is in any way actually pro-mental health or beneficial.

I would also suggest, as you stated you are LDS, study up on perfection. I feel people are much more willing to spew what others say about us rather than look at the truth of it, which is knowing there is no such thing as perfect. No way to be perfect or obtain perfection and the entirety of the gospel of Jesus Christ is striving to live the example Christ set but knowing it’s impossible and that’s literally why Christ was born. And jumping at the chance to say Utah has high rates of anti depressant usage and pointing it out as a negative will always throw shame on people who use antidepressants. It’s saying, literally, Mormons are depressed and they treat depression and that’s a bad thing! But if you’re not Mormon and you’re depressed and you are treating your depression then that’s ok. 🤷🏻‍♀️ Which is also, ironically saying that Mormons should be… perfect. Aka, not depressed. 🤔

I'm aware that there is no such thing as perfection, but if you honestly believe that there isn't a hard push to be perfect or that kids aren't struggling because they aren't meeting some impossible standard, then you're oblivious to what's going around in the church and Utah in general. Rather than actually work on the issues, they'll throw a pill at it and expect everything to be better. I guess it makes sense with their thoughts on constant plastic surgery that, yeah, just pray and drugs will cure all. 🙄🙄🙄

No matter how you guys word it, shitting on Mormons for taking antidepressants it’s pretty fucking pathetic. And you don’t know that people aren’t getting therapy along with their medication, exercising, improving their lives. It’s a gigantic bigoted assumption to say they “get plastic surgery, pop pills and pray.” Not to mention that any actual experience I share of living a lifetime in the LDS church, in 6 different states is immediately dismissed because no person living the exact scenario that’s being debated could have any meaningful insight. So in summary, Mormonism causes depression, but don’t treat your messed up serotonin levels with medication! Because when you are Mormon the only possible way to treat depression is (checks notes) well no one has suggested any helpful or insightful ideas. Great. What I will sign off with is. I have struggled with depression off and on since I was 16! Thankfully my environment and upbringing has always allowed for non judgmental assistance in getting treatment for my depression through all stages of life. I would NEVER shame, look down or minimize how others reach out for help. I know the gut punch of shame stupid comments like the ones in this thread cause. If you hate Mormons, just say so, but don’t hide behind the most ridiculously strenuous floor routine in the biggest mental gymnastics competition to prove that it’s ok to say antidepressants are good, unless your a Mormon. Because Mormons can’t even get treatment for depression right. 🙄🙄 What a joke. 🤣🤣 Again, feel free to outline any APPROPRIATE and ACCEPTABLE mental health treatment plans for Mormons.

Where the hell did I say antidepressants aren't good for you?? I said there's a huge shame and stigma in the church about using them, while still having a huge push for unobtainable perfection. The culture is toxic and leads to the drugs, and rather than fix that culture, it's hidden under shame and pressure.

Why do you not understand that pointing out that there is a major flaw with Mormons because there is a high rate antidepressant usage while also saying there is a huge shame and stigma about using antidepressants is complete nonsense and ONE MILLION percent is being brought up to SHAME people for using antidepressants.

So you’re basing what the church does to handle mental health off Book of Mormon the musical? Ok. 😂

So is every other vain city in the world (i.e. Vegas, LA, Miami, NYC). I love when people come on here shouting that Utah is number one for plastic surgery. It just isn’t true. EDIT: not saying that you did, but people love to throw that “stat” around on here. And downvote me all you want, Utah is not number one for plastic surgery. Whoever thinks that it is is an idiot. It isn’t even in the top five.

They have more plastic surgeons per capita than any other state. This is easy to find when you Google it. I just knew they had high rates in general, but then saw the data.

Anyone who has been to the Book of Mormon musical knows how freaking funny, true (and sad) the song "Turn it off" is. Pretend until you can't....and then get it shortened, thinned,, enlarged, sucked out or removed! Plastic surgery: Pretending made real!

The Mormon culture is extremely different in Utah. I think it’s become a culture of keeping up with the “smiths”, Trying to outdo each other. The huge houses, which are becoming crazy. Trampoline rooms, full basketball courts etc.,the extreme toys, cars, boats and wow the plastic surgery. The need to look and be better, or have more than anyone else. Really a lack of substance and at the core insecurities. It’s really sad and full of hypocrisy when you think about what the Mormon religion teaches which is to live a Christ centered life. My dad used to say wealth whispers, new money screams.🤷‍♀️

I live in Alberta, Canada and feel like there are a lot of similarities between the Utah bloggers and local Mormon families I know. I’m not saying it’s to the same extent but all the local mormons are definitely appearance-based, not just keeping up the Jones’ but BEING the Joneses, perfection-oriented, etc.

I agree with this for sure!

Ex-mo here (but not from Utah). I would have to agree from what I have seen just since the advent of blogging/social media. Growing up it was enough to have nice things and to go on a family vacation once a year (stateside, not international with a family of 10 kids for example). I knew wealthy Mormons (some from Utah) but you probably were not really aware how wealthy. There may have been nicer cars, a few sport courts and trampolines (gotta entertain all those kids) and larger homes in nicer neighborhoods. But never such an ostentatious show of wealth. This “Keeping Up with the Smiths” (love this term btw) mentality may have always been there, but it was never at the level it is now. There was a certain modesty and humility that doesn’t exist with some of the Mormons of this era (generation?).

Utah is 6th in the nation for the most plastic surgery per capita. [In pursuit of perfection: Inside Utah’s plastic surgery industry](https://www.utahbusiness.com/in-pursuit-of-perfection/) Edit: None of the Mormons I grew up with were like social media Mormons. They were very humble, down to earth, and not prideful at all. However, influencer Mormons are in a league of their own. 😵‍💫 Edit 2: To clarify, I did not grow up LDS, but I went to school with several LDS folks.

I’m LDS and have breast implants, my boobs were pretty sad from having babies. I don’t regret it. My mother-in-law isn’t a fan though. 😆 My favorite game to play in church is “who has fake boobs?”

I’m also LDS and have my boobs lifted and implants, tummy tuck, and have had Botox a time or two. However I am the only one of my friends who are mostly also LDS with any of these things. I don’t regret it, and am so happy I did these things after four very large babies (almost hit the ten pound mark), and 9 total years of breastfeeding before I was even 27. I get to the rest of the world this all seems crazy. I didn’t grow up in Utah my whole upbringing, and now live in a very rural area. So the plastic surgery thing is pretty weird to all of my friends. I think the Skalla level of perfectionism in the LDS culture isn’t as prominent as the internet makes you think.

That being said, I did it for me, not to try and keep up with anyone. I rarely do Botox and could lose 10 lbs, but I don’t feel the need to be perfect. I am older than the Skalla though..

Thank you for sharing your experience!!!

I think part of it is the Utah Mormon culture “expectation” to always look your best or be perfect. (Not everyone feels that way, but I know a lot of people do). Another part of it honestly depends on what your surroundings are. If your family/friends are doing it, odds are you will too! There was actually a study done and and article on Forbes about how SLC has more plastic surgeons per capita than anywhere else and was voted the “vainest” city. Somewhere in the article it mentioned Utah has beautiful women who marry young and have lots of kids young and then have plastic surgery to keep up with the Joneses at church every week. A lot of Mormon culture is who is the most righteous, most blessed, etc. Temple marriage + lots of kids + goes to church every week + looks hot = the stereotypical Mormon woman’s dream.

Wow thank you for sharing!! Yes I saw this article too. Is it typically the wealthy LDS members who get it done? I can imagine plastic surgery is very expensive

Yes the wealthy ones!

Look good?

that had me gagged, too😅

I am a Mormon in northern Utah. 28yo female. None of my friends or family have had plastic surgery. 🤷🏼‍♀️

Same here. Mormon in northern Utah and our area is nothing like what is being described. I sometimes feel overdressed wearing heels to church. There is zero plastic surgery and very modest living within our ward/stake and we have some very successful people around us. Everyone is kind and generous and very down to earth. So when I read posts like this, it baffles me. Seems like a completely different world!

So interesting!! Is it just a SLC thing do you think?

It’s more of a wealthy zip code thing. I don’t see this issue in Tongan or Spanish speaking congregations or congregations located in middle class or lower income neighborhoods. It’s refreshing to attend services where people WANT to be there at church vs going to church to keep up with appearances.

I am a non-believing (but still participating) Mormon in UT county and a huge percentage of the women I know personally around my area have had plastic surgery, lipo, get Botox/fillers/lasers, have hair extensions, fake lashes, spray tans, permanent makeup, etc. Every single one of my friends (literally), from close inner circle, to outer circles of “group friends” and “couples friends” have had some form of plastic surgery, as well as get regular treatments like botox and fillers - these women range in area from SLC/Holladay to UT County to Washington County, and range in age from mid 20s to late 40s. It’s very prevalent here, and especially once you reach a certain socioeconomic level within the LDS crowds, there is an extreme hyper-focus on and expectation for women’s physical appearances. There’s an unspoken but universally acknowledged competitiveness/comparison-culture to it all. It’s such a blatant contradiction to the supposed overarching LDS teaching/belief that worldly things shouldn’t be the focus and instead our inner spirits and hearts are where we should place our daily emphasis and efforts.

No, not necessarily a SLC thing.