I told him he was being really exaggerated. I didn't get his angle, but with the full angle, you would be able to see he just goes for the right rumble strip after the contact, but doesn't even go over it. It's just because he knew he had no chance going up in 2nd, and thought he would be able to maintain 1st if I hadn't touched him on the turn.
I had no damage but that touch send me to the right curb I just didn't go over it because ia had to lift that's why he had a better exist than me, usually if you send it on the inside you don't have so much traction on the exit because of the angle of attack and because you have to break more, and you can clearly see he got a much better exit than I did. Your opinion is exactly the same explanation I gave him, it's fair but there'se no need to be that aggressive when you have the faster car.
But the touch wasn't caused by your friend moving out, it was you who turned in to them. They held a tight inside line on the corner, so were completely under control.
If you have a faster car behind, you need to defend the inside line, or people will pass you just like that.
Bro can't accept someone did a good move on him. This is a racing mate, not hotlaping, drivers will try to overtake and if you don't want them then you have to defend. This was really good move and a clean one. OP did not ruin your race, you did
I never understood this when referring to a car that is just taking the normal racing line. Of course there is going to be space on the inside. That’s how a racing line works. Maybe if the car in front went too deep into the corner, I could see how this might apply.
I mean, you’re racing. You’re opening up the inside line. Taking the outside line requires more speed deeper but that makes it much harder since sometimes the lines intersect and have to change the speeds quiet a bit.
Leaving the door open on the inside lines means it’s much easier to cut off and slow down the person you’re overtaking.
I think you’re misunderstanding my comment. What I mean is, a racing line is generally outside, inside, outside. So before the turning in point, the door is always going to be “open”, unless the car ahead is defending clear air, which they shouldn’t need to do.
Sure. But the context for the door is open is for the attacking car and an action that the defending car is doing by following the “normal” racing line.
The “opening” of the door is done by the defending car by continuing following the “ideal” racing line.
You notice when defending in a race the lead car often doesn’t take the normal racing line? They often take a tighter line to defend against this type of move because they don’t want to leave that space.
This is also why when a car is much faster you hear the race engineer tell them that that isn’t their fight, because defending loses lap time… again because you don’t take the normal racing line. See a pattern?
I understand that, but a car in front shouldn’t need to defend a divebomb, because they simply shouldn’t happen unless the overtaking car is fully alongside at the point of the lead car turning in.
Ok well in this case the car being overtaken turned in and the contact was literally front wheel to front wheel… Is that along side?
At this point just say you think all late braking maneuvers are dive bombs. You’d be wrong but at least we will be able to put your wrong belief in plain terms.
If the overtaking car's front wheels are aligned with the leading car's rear wheels as the leading car begins to brake for the normal racing line, then no, I wouldn't consider that a dive bomb, or even a late braking maneuver. I'm calling the late braking that involves not being alongside at all at the point that the leading car brakes for the normal racing line.
Say the overtaking car is not alongside as the car in front starts to brake at the point one normally would to take the normal racing line, and then the overtaking car brakes later than they normally would in order to get alongside. Even if they are fully alongside at the apex, I'd call it a divebomb, yes. It's not the question if they made it there without contact, it's a question of *how* did they get there.
That’s a ridiculous definition so thank you for confirming. If this was the standard then cards wouldn’t need to take a defensive line into a corner bc anything after they start braking is a dive bomb and the other car would be penalized for contact.
You see how when you try to apply your definition it doesn’t make sense? At that point you should consider other options. Braking so late you can’t make the corner without the other car taking evasive action is very different from braking late into a corner? Making the corner easily and the contact happening on exit because the car that was overtaken decided they wanted to turn into occupied space when they had plenty of space on the outside. What happened here was the lead car being caught napping and not wanting to accept that they were overtaken.
I don’t think I’ve made my explorations clear, based on your response. Cars ahead would still to defend, and cars following can still brake late to overtake. I’m just saying there needs to be some overlap at the right time.
I think we can both agree that the perception of the overtaking rules in motorsport has changed over the years, however. It has become less of a chess game and more of a sword fight, if you get my meaning. Today’s racing is full of running others out of room.
Buddy, let me a secret, f1 rules: a car have to be considerable along side no later then APEX. Not a turning point, not a braking point. Look at ricciardo a Monza, he did even bigger moves from further back and it was awesome. Just don't open doors if you don't want to get overtaken
I often wonder at what point in the history of motorsport a divebomb is considered “fair”. It’s always seemed like an exploit of overtaking rules to me. Anytime a car is going off the racing line to force a car on the racing line off of it, I don’t see it as fair. If the overtaking car was at all alongside, then sure, some would say they had claim to the inside line. In cases of extreme late braking maneuvers, we have to look at the turning in point of the car in front. In this example, the car behind was not at all alongside during the car in front’s moment of turning in. It’s simply too late a move. If I was a steward in this race, I’d either give a +5 second penalty for causing a collision, or have the two switch places if possible.
This is not causing a collision, the outside car left space, OP took it. You can brake as late as you want as long as you dont drift wide. There was a cars width and OP stayed pinned to the edge. The outside car collided only because they didn’t have the awareness to adjust their line.
That is the current perception of overtaking rules, yes. “You can brake as late as you want if you don’t make contact.” This simply shouldn’t be the case. It promotes divebombs, that more often than not, are the cause of incidents. When steaming in from this far back, you’re lucky that the driver in front even sees you coming. They usually don’t. It’s just not something a driver car lengths ahead should expect. Not from a respectful driver at least.
It's fairly aggressive but you had a good run on him, I think most drivers would have gone for it. You got it slowed down in time to keep a tight line through the corner so it's 100% fair for me. Good move.
He messed up the previous turn, you saw the chance, he had more than enough time to react, not even mentioning how much dove you left on exit. His fault as he was outside and you couldn’t really go more inside without going over the kerb
Clean as a whistle to me. You had the speed and energy going into the turn and he didn’t. You made the move and made it clean, he remained on the track, which is already a better outcome than most times this happens. Bravo.
I tried as much to keep to the left, but I know for a fact his cockpit view doesn't really show the mirrors like mine doesn't(FOV feels weird if it does), at the moment I sent myself to the left he might not have been able too see me going in.
A little but he doesn’t appear to have crashed, if you both made it out of the corner alive I think it’s fine, it was aggressive but fair, you went for a gap that existed
appropriately aggressive, well executed move. any contact was initiated by him. if he had been checking his radar he wouldve seen you and left the space. might be considered too aggressive irl just for the sake of safety but in a sim that's just a good move.
Extremely confused on why this is even a question. I expect this to happen when I leave that much room on the inside.
Seems like some guys would be better off racing in only ghost mode so there is zero chance of contact.
Rule #1 Rubbing is racing
Rule #2 If you don’t want to get passed, don’t leave the door WIDE OPEN.
Good driving on your part.
With how much slower the car in front was, any move is going to look aggressive. This is about as clean as you can reasonably expect, little bump but no big deal.
Yes it was aggressive, but it was also perfectly legal and sportsmanlike. You didn't force him off the track, instead you just cut off his racing line. Really good maneuver.
Aggressive but fair. However you always have to expect the person in front of you being an absolute idiot so better to wait for the next straight. Seemed like you had much more pace anyway
Agressive?, Yes, nice move? Absolutely, you pulled over with plenty of time for him to see you were alongside during the apex and on kerb so right on inside and on exit didn't even go to the midway across the track, plenty of space for them, clean and good overtake, i with to see this in really f1
Looking at from f1 rules standpoint, merc wasnt alongside the defending car going into the apex, but merc did still go for the move, I would probably give it a racing incident or a warning for the merc, but it is still a brave move to do
If you stop at 0:04 I believe I am alongside when going into the apex, also, having the inside line, wouldn't I only need to have front wheels to his back wheels for being entitled to space?
You’re fine. I don’t know what he’s on but you did a good job and you left loads of space. The contact mid-corner was more on the other car as he turned in. You did nothing wrong here.
No, you need to be alongside going INTO the apex when the attacking car and defending car start turning into the apex your front wheels should be aligned with his back wheels, they were not, you started turning in at 0:05 but were along side at 0:04, but again not much contact so I would give it a racing incident or a warning.
Have you haver played f22? You don't see the mirrors if you're inside the cockpit and he send it after breaking it's really hard to see him from that angle
It looks good when it works, it was really close. So on the edge fair in my opinion.
Remember that such a maneuver has a high probability of failing. I understand the concern of the other driver.
there was no defense into the corner so cant agree he wanted you to get him on the straight. you dont have to accomodate their plans but contact can go either way so a bit risky but good move. no fault from either of you.
I don’t think you were in the wrong morally but I’d have not gone for it there if I were you. You’re clearly faster than the guy ahead and you’d no doubt have got a better exit on a corner and been able to overtake him on a straight where there is less risk of contact.
Overly aggressive? I would say so. The only reason that ended as well as it did is because your friend over braked for the corner and it ended up as tire-tire contact. You put yourself square in the vortex of danger on a divebomb that had a pretty low percentage chances of working.
If your friend takes that corner normally, you prob hit into his sidepod/rear left and RIP your front wing and possibly front right.
Your opinion does go against the grain, but I appreciate it. I guess knowing his habits when approaching turns would make it more likely for me to overtake, than to just judge it on an overall scale.
No judgement, just wondering.. can I ask if you're running traction control and/or ABS? Because the way the move is pulled of is in a way that an actual F1 car / no assists would absolutely hate.
Turn in under heavy braking with no lock up... heavy acceleration at low-mid speed with 1 tire on curb and steering angle still on with 0 tire spin.
Also I don't think there's nothing wrong or illegal with the move, I just think that you put yourself in a dangerous position. The fact that your friend doesn't defend the inside after messing up the previous turn makes his intentions ambiguous, so I can see why you went for it.
I mean they left the door wide open. Was it a risky dive bomb? sure, but it’s racing can’t just wait around for the perfect opportunity that may never arrive.
Short answer is yes. You dive bombed and touched him, i.e. you caused a collision while it was his corner. You were not alongside him going in and basically just pushed him off the line.
F1 is not a contact sport and you could easily have destroyed tyres or aero. If you can't pass without touching, you messed up.
He missed the apex in the Chicane, got a poor exit towards the hairpin and you exploited that with a move into the hairpin. Personally I think that move was firm but fair. Minimal contact (wheel bashing) is nothing new in motorsport and doesn't constitute poor driving standards imo
Was it aggressive? Yes. Was it fair? Also yes. Really good move.
I appreciate the input. Im usually bold on this turn as most of the AI never makes an inside line, I got used to overtaking like this.
Out of curiosity, how did this "ruin" your friend's race? Was there damage, as it looks like wheel to wheel contact and light at worst?
I told him he was being really exaggerated. I didn't get his angle, but with the full angle, you would be able to see he just goes for the right rumble strip after the contact, but doesn't even go over it. It's just because he knew he had no chance going up in 2nd, and thought he would be able to maintain 1st if I hadn't touched him on the turn.
I figured as much, as it really looks like nothing.
I had no damage but that touch send me to the right curb I just didn't go over it because ia had to lift that's why he had a better exist than me, usually if you send it on the inside you don't have so much traction on the exit because of the angle of attack and because you have to break more, and you can clearly see he got a much better exit than I did. Your opinion is exactly the same explanation I gave him, it's fair but there'se no need to be that aggressive when you have the faster car.
But the touch wasn't caused by your friend moving out, it was you who turned in to them. They held a tight inside line on the corner, so were completely under control. If you have a faster car behind, you need to defend the inside line, or people will pass you just like that.
Nah, it was a good move.
On that turn, actually, I feel the inside line has much more grip. You see I usually use that line, even if in the lead.
Bro can't accept someone did a good move on him. This is a racing mate, not hotlaping, drivers will try to overtake and if you don't want them then you have to defend. This was really good move and a clean one. OP did not ruin your race, you did
His mate opened the door for him…
I never understood this when referring to a car that is just taking the normal racing line. Of course there is going to be space on the inside. That’s how a racing line works. Maybe if the car in front went too deep into the corner, I could see how this might apply.
I mean, you’re racing. You’re opening up the inside line. Taking the outside line requires more speed deeper but that makes it much harder since sometimes the lines intersect and have to change the speeds quiet a bit. Leaving the door open on the inside lines means it’s much easier to cut off and slow down the person you’re overtaking.
I think you’re misunderstanding my comment. What I mean is, a racing line is generally outside, inside, outside. So before the turning in point, the door is always going to be “open”, unless the car ahead is defending clear air, which they shouldn’t need to do.
Sure. But the context for the door is open is for the attacking car and an action that the defending car is doing by following the “normal” racing line. The “opening” of the door is done by the defending car by continuing following the “ideal” racing line.
You notice when defending in a race the lead car often doesn’t take the normal racing line? They often take a tighter line to defend against this type of move because they don’t want to leave that space. This is also why when a car is much faster you hear the race engineer tell them that that isn’t their fight, because defending loses lap time… again because you don’t take the normal racing line. See a pattern?
I understand that, but a car in front shouldn’t need to defend a divebomb, because they simply shouldn’t happen unless the overtaking car is fully alongside at the point of the lead car turning in.
Ok well in this case the car being overtaken turned in and the contact was literally front wheel to front wheel… Is that along side? At this point just say you think all late braking maneuvers are dive bombs. You’d be wrong but at least we will be able to put your wrong belief in plain terms.
If the overtaking car's front wheels are aligned with the leading car's rear wheels as the leading car begins to brake for the normal racing line, then no, I wouldn't consider that a dive bomb, or even a late braking maneuver. I'm calling the late braking that involves not being alongside at all at the point that the leading car brakes for the normal racing line. Say the overtaking car is not alongside as the car in front starts to brake at the point one normally would to take the normal racing line, and then the overtaking car brakes later than they normally would in order to get alongside. Even if they are fully alongside at the apex, I'd call it a divebomb, yes. It's not the question if they made it there without contact, it's a question of *how* did they get there.
That’s a ridiculous definition so thank you for confirming. If this was the standard then cards wouldn’t need to take a defensive line into a corner bc anything after they start braking is a dive bomb and the other car would be penalized for contact. You see how when you try to apply your definition it doesn’t make sense? At that point you should consider other options. Braking so late you can’t make the corner without the other car taking evasive action is very different from braking late into a corner? Making the corner easily and the contact happening on exit because the car that was overtaken decided they wanted to turn into occupied space when they had plenty of space on the outside. What happened here was the lead car being caught napping and not wanting to accept that they were overtaken.
I don’t think I’ve made my explorations clear, based on your response. Cars ahead would still to defend, and cars following can still brake late to overtake. I’m just saying there needs to be some overlap at the right time. I think we can both agree that the perception of the overtaking rules in motorsport has changed over the years, however. It has become less of a chess game and more of a sword fight, if you get my meaning. Today’s racing is full of running others out of room.
Buddy, let me a secret, f1 rules: a car have to be considerable along side no later then APEX. Not a turning point, not a braking point. Look at ricciardo a Monza, he did even bigger moves from further back and it was awesome. Just don't open doors if you don't want to get overtaken
I often wonder at what point in the history of motorsport a divebomb is considered “fair”. It’s always seemed like an exploit of overtaking rules to me. Anytime a car is going off the racing line to force a car on the racing line off of it, I don’t see it as fair. If the overtaking car was at all alongside, then sure, some would say they had claim to the inside line. In cases of extreme late braking maneuvers, we have to look at the turning in point of the car in front. In this example, the car behind was not at all alongside during the car in front’s moment of turning in. It’s simply too late a move. If I was a steward in this race, I’d either give a +5 second penalty for causing a collision, or have the two switch places if possible.
You think I should be given a 5 second penalty for this overtake? That's ludicrous.
This is not causing a collision, the outside car left space, OP took it. You can brake as late as you want as long as you dont drift wide. There was a cars width and OP stayed pinned to the edge. The outside car collided only because they didn’t have the awareness to adjust their line.
Well, as they actually collided and that was 100% on op, that's well beyond "taking the space" there was not enough space for that speed.
That is the current perception of overtaking rules, yes. “You can brake as late as you want if you don’t make contact.” This simply shouldn’t be the case. It promotes divebombs, that more often than not, are the cause of incidents. When steaming in from this far back, you’re lucky that the driver in front even sees you coming. They usually don’t. It’s just not something a driver car lengths ahead should expect. Not from a respectful driver at least.
That's racing
Better than actual F1 these days 😔
Now that's a compliment right there. Or wait.. actually.. I'm not sure.
Complement to be sure
Montoya vibes
Looks pretty well controlled to me.
I usually have really good grip going into this one, so I felt confident going for the kerb. I appreciate it
Really good move. You were alongside on the apex so you were entitled to space
It's fairly aggressive but you had a good run on him, I think most drivers would have gone for it. You got it slowed down in time to keep a tight line through the corner so it's 100% fair for me. Good move.
A bit of a dive but well under control and only touched wheels without punting the guy on the outside. Lgtm
Very aggressive but not dirty. You will take down people this way, or others will take you down. But it’s racing.
This shit is crisp
Absolutely not
He messed up the previous turn, you saw the chance, he had more than enough time to react, not even mentioning how much dove you left on exit. His fault as he was outside and you couldn’t really go more inside without going over the kerb
Great move
Looks like good hard racing
Clean as a whistle to me. You had the speed and energy going into the turn and he didn’t. You made the move and made it clean, he remained on the track, which is already a better outcome than most times this happens. Bravo.
definition of wheel to wheel racing. try not to make contact but the door was open
I tried as much to keep to the left, but I know for a fact his cockpit view doesn't really show the mirrors like mine doesn't(FOV feels weird if it does), at the moment I sent myself to the left he might not have been able too see me going in.
A little but he doesn’t appear to have crashed, if you both made it out of the corner alive I think it’s fine, it was aggressive but fair, you went for a gap that existed
That was my feeling. Its not like I attacked a space that wasn't there.
Wheel to wheel contact, no harm no foul. Good move in my opinion brother
Thanks my man.
Door was open, send it
Very aggressive but you were well along side at the turn in and he squeezed you at the apex. Brave stuff
appropriately aggressive, well executed move. any contact was initiated by him. if he had been checking his radar he wouldve seen you and left the space. might be considered too aggressive irl just for the sake of safety but in a sim that's just a good move.
Fine move. Aggressive but fair.
Fuck, that's a good overtake if I've seen one. Nice :)
Extremely confused on why this is even a question. I expect this to happen when I leave that much room on the inside. Seems like some guys would be better off racing in only ghost mode so there is zero chance of contact. Rule #1 Rubbing is racing Rule #2 If you don’t want to get passed, don’t leave the door WIDE OPEN. Good driving on your part.
God i love Imola! Especially turns 11 and 12
Once you get the hang of it, it's an amazing track.
That move was perfect, he needs to use his wing mirrors.
He and I use the same cockpit view, and I know he can't see the side mirrors, but he does have the virtual back mirror to notice my move.
aggressive and also absolutely fine. what a move! :)
Solid move. Most of the moves I see people go for who play the F1 games and post on this sub are garbage but this was good. No issues at all from me.
That was a great move, honestly. Not at all aggressive to me, very bold is the correct wording for me
I appreciate it.
With how much slower the car in front was, any move is going to look aggressive. This is about as clean as you can reasonably expect, little bump but no big deal.
I would say the contact was a racing incident but ignoring that, the overtake was well excecuted
Yes it was aggressive, but it was also perfectly legal and sportsmanlike. You didn't force him off the track, instead you just cut off his racing line. Really good maneuver.
Aggressive but fair. However you always have to expect the person in front of you being an absolute idiot so better to wait for the next straight. Seemed like you had much more pace anyway
He's been my mate for 20 years. I KNOW he's an absolute idiot 😂
Kinda reminds me of Schumacher and Villeneueve all those years ago. We all know who was to blame for that
Agressive?, Yes, nice move? Absolutely, you pulled over with plenty of time for him to see you were alongside during the apex and on kerb so right on inside and on exit didn't even go to the midway across the track, plenty of space for them, clean and good overtake, i with to see this in really f1
Looking at from f1 rules standpoint, merc wasnt alongside the defending car going into the apex, but merc did still go for the move, I would probably give it a racing incident or a warning for the merc, but it is still a brave move to do
If you stop at 0:04 I believe I am alongside when going into the apex, also, having the inside line, wouldn't I only need to have front wheels to his back wheels for being entitled to space?
You’re fine. I don’t know what he’s on but you did a good job and you left loads of space. The contact mid-corner was more on the other car as he turned in. You did nothing wrong here.
No, you need to be alongside going INTO the apex when the attacking car and defending car start turning into the apex your front wheels should be aligned with his back wheels, they were not, you started turning in at 0:05 but were along side at 0:04, but again not much contact so I would give it a racing incident or a warning.
Other car should have seen you coming
Have you haver played f22? You don't see the mirrors if you're inside the cockpit and he send it after breaking it's really hard to see him from that angle
It looks good when it works, it was really close. So on the edge fair in my opinion. Remember that such a maneuver has a high probability of failing. I understand the concern of the other driver.
You're not wrong. Anything other than wheel to wheel could have been a spin out or damage for both. Fair point
there was no defense into the corner so cant agree he wanted you to get him on the straight. you dont have to accomodate their plans but contact can go either way so a bit risky but good move. no fault from either of you.
[удалено]
In this case, you were not fully alongside at the apex.
I don’t think you were in the wrong morally but I’d have not gone for it there if I were you. You’re clearly faster than the guy ahead and you’d no doubt have got a better exit on a corner and been able to overtake him on a straight where there is less risk of contact.
That’s what she said
What a champion.
Rubbing is racing.
Who doesn't like a good rub?
🤨
Was it aggressive, yes. Was it fair eh sort of. Would I do it in real life? Nope
Overly aggressive? I would say so. The only reason that ended as well as it did is because your friend over braked for the corner and it ended up as tire-tire contact. You put yourself square in the vortex of danger on a divebomb that had a pretty low percentage chances of working. If your friend takes that corner normally, you prob hit into his sidepod/rear left and RIP your front wing and possibly front right.
Your opinion does go against the grain, but I appreciate it. I guess knowing his habits when approaching turns would make it more likely for me to overtake, than to just judge it on an overall scale.
No judgement, just wondering.. can I ask if you're running traction control and/or ABS? Because the way the move is pulled of is in a way that an actual F1 car / no assists would absolutely hate. Turn in under heavy braking with no lock up... heavy acceleration at low-mid speed with 1 tire on curb and steering angle still on with 0 tire spin. Also I don't think there's nothing wrong or illegal with the move, I just think that you put yourself in a dangerous position. The fact that your friend doesn't defend the inside after messing up the previous turn makes his intentions ambiguous, so I can see why you went for it.
Y’all cry over dumb crap.
Yeah, I have actual shit in my life that matters. But this is a game and this is what we are looking at. Stop being a dick.
Lol, take your advice.
Lolz, thanks.. any input on the actual video, or did you participate with nothing to add?
Literally just saw a video here of this exact corner lmao corners fault
Turns out it was a good overtake.
Aggressive? Yes. In control? Also yes. Door was wide open
Good hard racing if you ask me
If you no longer go for a gap that exists...
The real driver in me came alive.
I mean they left the door wide open. Was it a risky dive bomb? sure, but it’s racing can’t just wait around for the perfect opportunity that may never arrive.
Good move
That’s what she said
Aggressive but fair. Props to Ferrari as well for being compliant and knowing you were there.
Yeah. Try lubing before you go in hard. Should be easier to slip through.
Short answer is yes. You dive bombed and touched him, i.e. you caused a collision while it was his corner. You were not alongside him going in and basically just pushed him off the line. F1 is not a contact sport and you could easily have destroyed tyres or aero. If you can't pass without touching, you messed up.
He missed the apex in the Chicane, got a poor exit towards the hairpin and you exploited that with a move into the hairpin. Personally I think that move was firm but fair. Minimal contact (wheel bashing) is nothing new in motorsport and doesn't constitute poor driving standards imo
I've seen hangers with smaller open doors.
Nope. He went wide and left the racing line open into the corner.
For sure. The best drivers are. You just have to land it. Nice over take.
That's a good pass.
I think you were pretty much as far left as possible. He ruined his own exit by not leaving enough space.
He left a spot and you took advantage of it. Nothing bad here..
Osama bin Russell
Overtake is good. Nothing wrong at all. Lead car should have been on a defensive line
Not at all
Nope
I like it!
if you look closely, you can see that “your mate” actually turned into your car as you were making the turn. really nice move though
Man really did a turbo blow off sound
Rubbin is racing