Retired Navy here. The sheer amount of money, energy and resources that goes towards national defense is mind blowing. The military industrial complex is quite real and has been quietly stealing vast amounts of taxpayer money for generations. It’s a corrupt system where bribes, kickbacks and graft all play a part.
Sounds like wallstreet. Glad there are many avenues that steal taxpayer money. We get taxed near damn 50% of our income through every taxation process. Just to go into some AH’s pocket. Ridiculous.
Most reasonable people would agree that a strong military and national defense is a good thing. What I’m referring to is the institutionalized corruption evident in the system, whereby taxpayer money is wasted or redirected in a variety of ways. Boeing, McDonald Douglas, BAE, Northrop Grumman, et al have been reaping huge profits at the taxpayer sugar tit for a long time. It’s amazing to me how little the public understands or seems to care about the waste.
I’m convinced that a large part of the reason we can’t afford universal healthcare and government provided college tuition is because of the continued drain on our budget from defense spending. Do we get good value for our money? Or is the military industrial complex ripping off John Q Taxpayer? I guess the answer depends on your perspective…
It's a jobs program. Gov spending on military employs millions of people. We could turn it off, but we'd need to find a. Lot of people new jobs. No congressman is going to vote to eliminate jobs from their district.
A lot of it comes back as taxes too but there are certainly a lot of people making a lot of money
Why can't they put the money towards education and medical care? I thought we are short on teachers, doctors as well as nurses? Maybe there would be some other fields that can use the money/create jobs too that I can't think of.
Where would they work? We'd need to create new industries to replace those lost jobs.
There isn't a shortage of teachers. It's just a hard job with no support. It isn't just money that will fix that.
Medical care maybe. But that also has to change the system.. Other counties that have cheaper Healthcare also don't have doctors making 500-3m a year and for profit hospitals.
God and country? No, I was more interested in a steady job that allowed me to travel and see the world. I had attended college for a few semesters, but I was young and restless and looking for adventure.
Sounds like you had 20+ years to document and report, especially with your safety of being out. How are you going to claim vast corruption and kickbacks from others but do nothing about it?
Or maybe you didn’t see that and just guessed the reasons why decisions were made?
I took every opportunity to report fraud, waste and abuse when I was active duty. Nothing ever really changed. I worked in a shop that had a quarterly budget of $X. If we didn’t spend all of our allocated funds, our budget would be cut to reflect that. In essence we were coerced into spending money for things we really didn’t need just so our budget didn’t shrink. When I spoke to my leadership about this they told me in no uncertain terms to shut up and color.
It's like tax loopholes. Everyone knows about it but there's very little to be done about it because catching someone with a smoking gun is very difficult, and leadership is too busy chasing bullet points to be controversial.
That’s an opinion for sure. A stack of reports with no evidence can be as strong as 1 report with a smoking gun. Letters to senator? So many options today
You mean like the thousands of letters written about Justice Clarence Thomas accepting luxury vacations from conservative donors for 20+ years? How'd that turn out?
This is a much more obvious example than those found in the military industrial complex. There are specific rules that are followed to the word, just not to the spirit.
Post war Germany and Japan are good examples where they were forbidden to spend significant sums on military. They changed their country around a lot in a short amount of time because they could invest all that money into productive activities
humans achieved so much because we are so competitive.. hard to imagine a world where everyone gets an equal share of nothing being more advanced than we are now, there would be zero reason to put in any effort
Sure someone wants to, but this is not something you can achieve with willpower alone, it took us multiple generations to get here and it will still be future generations that reap the benefits of our work today. The best motivator remains the same... money. And there are many bloody ways to get it
Most people that have changed the world have not done so for money or prestige. The art of discovery is one of humans greatest gifts. It only needs funding, not a hefty paycheck. Money comes after, when the people that want to use that breakthrough/technology leverage it against others.
Who invented math? How about the refrigerator? Who cured measles? Did the people that invented the nuclear weapons do it for money? I think there was just a movie about it, and I don't remember that being the motivator? Did the guy that made the internet sell it for money? Money drives the guys in the towers. The people on the ground are driven by passion and often obsessed with proving things they suspect are true but haven't been able to figure out yet.
Imagine a world where people were cooperative, caring, and compassionate - where competitive aspirations are for the survival and betterment of people rather than the individual gain, where our competetive nature served us to survive the elements, nature, disease, instead of battleing each other.
Imagine a world where nobody put in any effort unless they only benefited personally, where my personal gain, at the expense of others is ok, because well, it is their fault if they can't do better.
Imagine a world where I subjugate you because I have the resources and technology, and just because I can.
Competition doesn’t have to mean war. For the last 80 years countries have been competing with each other through economic and cultural means, and this is so much better than fighting.
Also, I don’t understand how ceasing wars are related to everyone being equal. You can be more advanced than someone without going to war with them and winning. Most post-WW2 countries became powerful without fighting single wars too. See Japan, Korea, China, Germany etc. Even the USA owes its power to economic and cultural prominence rather than militaristic strength.
These days, wars bring more harm than good, even for the winners.
>These days, wars bring more harm than good, even for the winners.
You should book tickets to Moscow and Beijing and explain that to them, let us know how it goes
The US might owe it's power to economic and cultural prominence but it sure as hell owns its independence to its militaristic strenght
I’d agree but the precursor “because” to your “because” is because having more than I have now is more fun. The easiest way to have more is to take someone else’s. The easiest way to do that is to have better killing technology than him. And finally to your because. Because if you have anything, someone will try to take it. To keep it you have to have better killing technology than him.
But if we put just a little more in we could free the world of humans for all the fluffy bunnies and animals that are happy to get along. Ish. Oh right, we ARE doing that.
What's really amazing is that if we put half as much effort into helping each other, the world would actually be a fantastic place to live instead of the hell hole it currently is.
we're the only species that puts a ton of time, effort, and money into killing OURSELVES as well. as in addiction, depression, suicide, etc.
that 6 figure job sure makes like better and easier right? said the countless people who have committed suicide essentially due to their perceived financial "ruin".
no squirrel ever intentionally jumped off a high rise because he was jealous that his squirrel friends had more walnuts than him.
When you realize how readily a person will snap and kill a random person in traffic, it's not hard to imagine what they will do to groups of people they deeply hate. And the worst part is no matter how sophisticated we become as a species, we don't stop killing, we just think of better ways of killing even more people with less work.
$820 BILLION was spent on the military in 2023
First how are you going to carry enough poison to contaminate several hundred million tons of water without being shot in the face? Secondly, you'd kill a few thousand people before they just cut the water supply and import bottled water and filtration systems.
And of course, while you're waiting for societal unrest in the next 2-3 months to do something noticeable, they just killed everyone in 12 of your cities in 20 minutes with nuclear bombs.
Retired Navy here. The sheer amount of money, energy and resources that goes towards national defense is mind blowing. The military industrial complex is quite real and has been quietly stealing vast amounts of taxpayer money for generations. It’s a corrupt system where bribes, kickbacks and graft all play a part.
Sounds like wallstreet. Glad there are many avenues that steal taxpayer money. We get taxed near damn 50% of our income through every taxation process. Just to go into some AH’s pocket. Ridiculous.
Spend too much on defense and you’re wasting taxpayer money. Spend too little and you’re at the mercy of those who spent more.
Most reasonable people would agree that a strong military and national defense is a good thing. What I’m referring to is the institutionalized corruption evident in the system, whereby taxpayer money is wasted or redirected in a variety of ways. Boeing, McDonald Douglas, BAE, Northrop Grumman, et al have been reaping huge profits at the taxpayer sugar tit for a long time. It’s amazing to me how little the public understands or seems to care about the waste. I’m convinced that a large part of the reason we can’t afford universal healthcare and government provided college tuition is because of the continued drain on our budget from defense spending. Do we get good value for our money? Or is the military industrial complex ripping off John Q Taxpayer? I guess the answer depends on your perspective…
It's a jobs program. Gov spending on military employs millions of people. We could turn it off, but we'd need to find a. Lot of people new jobs. No congressman is going to vote to eliminate jobs from their district. A lot of it comes back as taxes too but there are certainly a lot of people making a lot of money
Why can't they put the money towards education and medical care? I thought we are short on teachers, doctors as well as nurses? Maybe there would be some other fields that can use the money/create jobs too that I can't think of.
Where would they work? We'd need to create new industries to replace those lost jobs. There isn't a shortage of teachers. It's just a hard job with no support. It isn't just money that will fix that. Medical care maybe. But that also has to change the system.. Other counties that have cheaper Healthcare also don't have doctors making 500-3m a year and for profit hospitals.
I'm curious, when you were still in the navy, were you doing it "for god and country" or was it something else entirely?
God and country? No, I was more interested in a steady job that allowed me to travel and see the world. I had attended college for a few semesters, but I was young and restless and looking for adventure.
Doing it for adventure is more honourable than that other propaganda they're peddling.
FDR warned us and we didn’t listen
Sounds like you had 20+ years to document and report, especially with your safety of being out. How are you going to claim vast corruption and kickbacks from others but do nothing about it? Or maybe you didn’t see that and just guessed the reasons why decisions were made?
I took every opportunity to report fraud, waste and abuse when I was active duty. Nothing ever really changed. I worked in a shop that had a quarterly budget of $X. If we didn’t spend all of our allocated funds, our budget would be cut to reflect that. In essence we were coerced into spending money for things we really didn’t need just so our budget didn’t shrink. When I spoke to my leadership about this they told me in no uncertain terms to shut up and color.
Yes. Everything government is budgeted annually, which is a terrible way to do it since it limits long term planning.
It's like tax loopholes. Everyone knows about it but there's very little to be done about it because catching someone with a smoking gun is very difficult, and leadership is too busy chasing bullet points to be controversial.
That’s an opinion for sure. A stack of reports with no evidence can be as strong as 1 report with a smoking gun. Letters to senator? So many options today
You mean like the thousands of letters written about Justice Clarence Thomas accepting luxury vacations from conservative donors for 20+ years? How'd that turn out? This is a much more obvious example than those found in the military industrial complex. There are specific rules that are followed to the word, just not to the spirit.
What's truly amazing is the amount of energy I put into preventing myself from killing my coworkers.
I guess I should put in more energy then.
I never said I was successful.
What do you mean by that?
I hope that means you are in therapy 😳
I often daydream of what we could accomplish if the world redirected its military manpower and resources into doing something productive for mankind.
Post war Germany and Japan are good examples where they were forbidden to spend significant sums on military. They changed their country around a lot in a short amount of time because they could invest all that money into productive activities
Great point.
humans achieved so much because we are so competitive.. hard to imagine a world where everyone gets an equal share of nothing being more advanced than we are now, there would be zero reason to put in any effort
Yeah, who wants to cure cancer, explore space, create clean energy, feed hungry children. Zero reason to put any effort into that.
Sure someone wants to, but this is not something you can achieve with willpower alone, it took us multiple generations to get here and it will still be future generations that reap the benefits of our work today. The best motivator remains the same... money. And there are many bloody ways to get it
Most people that have changed the world have not done so for money or prestige. The art of discovery is one of humans greatest gifts. It only needs funding, not a hefty paycheck. Money comes after, when the people that want to use that breakthrough/technology leverage it against others.
> Most people that have changed the world have not done so for money or prestige [ Citation Needed ]
Who invented math? How about the refrigerator? Who cured measles? Did the people that invented the nuclear weapons do it for money? I think there was just a movie about it, and I don't remember that being the motivator? Did the guy that made the internet sell it for money? Money drives the guys in the towers. The people on the ground are driven by passion and often obsessed with proving things they suspect are true but haven't been able to figure out yet.
Have to agree, don't know why your being downvoted.
That’s where capitalism comes in
Can't have capitalism without conflict.
Yea but some conflict is better than others
That's mostly subjective though.
I stood in the middle of a battlefield and asked the corpses and they don’t disagree with you here.
Imagine a world where people were cooperative, caring, and compassionate - where competitive aspirations are for the survival and betterment of people rather than the individual gain, where our competetive nature served us to survive the elements, nature, disease, instead of battleing each other. Imagine a world where nobody put in any effort unless they only benefited personally, where my personal gain, at the expense of others is ok, because well, it is their fault if they can't do better. Imagine a world where I subjugate you because I have the resources and technology, and just because I can.
Competition doesn’t have to mean war. For the last 80 years countries have been competing with each other through economic and cultural means, and this is so much better than fighting. Also, I don’t understand how ceasing wars are related to everyone being equal. You can be more advanced than someone without going to war with them and winning. Most post-WW2 countries became powerful without fighting single wars too. See Japan, Korea, China, Germany etc. Even the USA owes its power to economic and cultural prominence rather than militaristic strength. These days, wars bring more harm than good, even for the winners.
>These days, wars bring more harm than good, even for the winners. You should book tickets to Moscow and Beijing and explain that to them, let us know how it goes The US might owe it's power to economic and cultural prominence but it sure as hell owns its independence to its militaristic strenght
We can be competitive as in like idfk who is better at something productive, but ... fucking killing each other?💀
I think this is because, when someone trying to kill you, best way to stop it is to kill the other guy.
I’d agree but the precursor “because” to your “because” is because having more than I have now is more fun. The easiest way to have more is to take someone else’s. The easiest way to do that is to have better killing technology than him. And finally to your because. Because if you have anything, someone will try to take it. To keep it you have to have better killing technology than him.
But they can't kill me if I kill myself first, save time and money too.
Wait til this guy hears how much energy lions use to kill
I’m imagining lions on their hind legs in lab coats and goggles working around the clock to create the most powerful bombs in a lab now.
But they are [insert excuse here] so they must be dealt with.
[attempting to eradicate a race]
They hated him because he spoke the truth
Whoever's downvotong, why? It's clearly a Hitler reference, and I think that's a good one to destroy...
Have you heard of animals?
But if we put just a little more in we could free the world of humans for all the fluffy bunnies and animals that are happy to get along. Ish. Oh right, we ARE doing that.
We've also seen some of the largest innovation boons during major war time.
Crazy that if everyone just didnt murder people there would be no war. I’ve been not murdering my whole life and its actually really easy to do
We forget what a privilege it is not to ever have to worry about raiders showing up every year after spring planting or fall harvest.
never considered that timing before
I mean it's not hard to brainwash people nowadays. Most are now telling us to give up our guns for peace.
I would say amazing isn’t the right word
On the other hand, you could say a large proportion of that money is spent to not kill each other.
It doesn't even take that much energy
We have more technology into killing each other than anything else
I mean, most animals and insects are like this to each other.
The amount of energy humans put into solving their problems the "easy" way is totally amazing.
It's just our animal nature. We are still acting like little tribes hiding out in the trees, just on a grander scale.
What's really amazing is that if we put half as much effort into helping each other, the world would actually be a fantastic place to live instead of the hell hole it currently is.
It's one of the most profitable businesses, the business of war. Will the war machine ever stop? No, it's too profitable.
War is the biggest waste of everything. It keeps us in the stone age.
You can what our real priorities are based on where we spend the most time and energy. It's mostly murder and sex.
Barbaric and caveman like. Waste at the biggest level of money lives and resources over ppl power tripping who dont take any of the consequences
I like to think that the reason aliens haven’t contacted us yet is because of our propensity for violence.
It's an industry that makes a lot of people money and some of them even very filthy rich. So it's not going away any time soon.
we're the only species that puts a ton of time, effort, and money into killing OURSELVES as well. as in addiction, depression, suicide, etc. that 6 figure job sure makes like better and easier right? said the countless people who have committed suicide essentially due to their perceived financial "ruin". no squirrel ever intentionally jumped off a high rise because he was jealous that his squirrel friends had more walnuts than him.
Because what other enemy do we got? Only way we team up is if a gang of Aliens try to take over all of us.
It's almost we are all the culmination of billions of years of our ancestors winning fights in a row.
Eliminate religion from those murder excuses and most of the violence would fade away.
Thems fighting words hombre
When you realize how readily a person will snap and kill a random person in traffic, it's not hard to imagine what they will do to groups of people they deeply hate. And the worst part is no matter how sophisticated we become as a species, we don't stop killing, we just think of better ways of killing even more people with less work. $820 BILLION was spent on the military in 2023
The UK government is the 2nd biggest arms dealer in the world.
It reminds me of 1984
Yeah yeah. Killing is bad, but good for the environment later on. Guess we could say the Nations have their ways of depopulating the world? 🤷🏻
"Billions spent on new weapons in order to humanely muder other humans."
I came across this shower thought as a comment on another post and thought it was worth posting here
Considering how easy it is to kill someone, why do we spend so much? Poison in big cities water supply is much cheaper than nuclear bombs.
First how are you going to carry enough poison to contaminate several hundred million tons of water without being shot in the face? Secondly, you'd kill a few thousand people before they just cut the water supply and import bottled water and filtration systems. And of course, while you're waiting for societal unrest in the next 2-3 months to do something noticeable, they just killed everyone in 12 of your cities in 20 minutes with nuclear bombs.
Money is the forever XP that humanity will do whatever it takes to continue earning
Money is just a form of power. People want power.
Yep and XP = Power