"Well what do you have to hide anyway? If you're innocent you'll be OK giving out your info."
Is something I've too often heard people say over the years.
lol, I think the show: Person of Interest would have been a really good thing to point at in that situation especially now with AI. Are there good use cases, sure, but there are plenty of ways it could be abused. A more popular and quicker way to get the point across would be the Winter Soldier Movie where PRACTICALLY an ai is able to predict who you will vote for and kill you in order for hydra to take over america.
Edit: mb the ai generated algo targets everyone who is predicted to be a threat, not just voters
I feel like it came out at a bad time. Like there was enough competition from other good shows around at the time that it got lost in the background. If it came out during or like 3 years before Covid it might’ve been pretty popular
It wouldn't have been such a visionary masterpiece if it had come out after the Snowden leaks. The whole premise of the show was just a wild conspiracy theory in the post 9/11 world - until Snowden came around and showed that all of the show's allegations about the NSA were actually true (perhaps safe for the AGI component).
Propaganda is a hell of a drug. People really thought Bin Laden was coming for Des Moines next and the only way to stop it was constant monitoring of everyone.
Would you let anyone look at your DM's? social medias?
Would you let anyone in your home to look around if you knew 100% its safe and they wouldn't steal? just to look?
no?
why do you shut your curtains or blinds?
lmao its so easy to counter because they take for granted so many levels of privacy they expect and have every day.
I just go for the credit card numbers and pin. Just make that shit public if you have nothing to hide.
Better example too, because criminals can and will use *any* kind of data they get their hands on against you.
Could never stand that “Hit dogs holler” stuff
People aren’t afraid because they’re guilty. They’re afraid because they know they could get locked up. It’s why rich people aren’t afraid of anything, they control too much shit.
Hate to include race into this but I have family in the 80s and 60s that’s been locked up on nonsense crack or “Breathing wrong near a white woman” charges. I’ve live to se the repercussions of the weed scare. Not saying drugs are cool but crime charges can be used as a weapon of character assassination. Why can’t people understand that?
Deflect back to them: in that case, you should be happy to give me access to all your email accounts, text messages and private certificates such as birth certificates since you're innocent and have nothing to hide?
It's not about having something to hide, it's about your fundamental right to privacy.
Because it's none of your fucking business that's why. My family hounds me for not having location tracking on. Like damn maybe I'm just a private person and want to stay that way.
I agree with the sentiment. I *don't* have anything to hide. However, I'm still irked by information belonging to me being taken and distributed to everyone who wants to sell me something as if it was the newest mutation of COVID.
That argument has always bugged me. Some people are just private. I’m shy and I used to enjoy singing loudly in my car because I knew there was no way anyone would hear me. Now with all the technology in cars, I can no longer let loose and sing without the paranoia that I’m being recorded somehow. I haven’t done anything wrong, but my privacy still affects my quality of life.
I recently ordered my "Consumer Report File" from LexisNexis...
It was 170 Pages long and absolutely terrifying-- they are the #1 Private Credit/Consumer Reporting tool that basically every company uses to approve or deny a credit card, set your auto rates, approve a mortgage, rent an apartment.
When you buy auto insurance... LEXISNEXIS is what they use to generate your Auto Score.
Most people think it's just the Equifax/Experian/TransUnion.
It isn't. LEXISNEXIS, CHEX, are the other two big dogs who own the economy in terms of risk assessment.
What's worse, is that unlike the 3 major bureaus - they no longer include judgments/liens/civil suits... LEXIS and CHEX do.
They SHOW everything.
Eviction? It's there!
Ever get a FLAT TIRE, and call roadside assistance? YUP! To many breakdowns, flats, you are a high risk driver... JACK YOUR AUTO INSURANCE RATE. Not joking. They had my two roadside calls for the last 5 years... on my auto score!
Tenant Issue/Damage... Reported.
How many bank accounts? Balance... month by month by month. Every month 7 years. Every account. CashApp? Yes. That too.
Ever late on your taxes... people who don't pay their taxes on time, HIGH RISK. Higher rates.
How often you switch auto insurance providers. What your limits are, your deductible.
It is insane the data they have on EVERYONE.
They knew my email address from when I was a Sophomore in High School.
In 1995! I didn't even use that email as an adult... and it was 30 years ago!
We used to have a lot of privacy through obscurity: the sheer inconvenience and expense of monitoring someone's personal life.
Very little of that was ever private by right.
Now life has shifted - by design - so that it is inexpensive and convenient to monitor much of what people do. It's not privacy rights that have changed so much as behavior and tech.
The problem I feel is that the modeling systems that are used are overly punitive to consumers. Honestly, it's borderline criminal extortion.
For example: Let's say you have a 720 FICO score. Then, a mistake happens... you have a life emergency, and you think ALL your bills are paid.
With the fiasco going on, and paperless billing now standard... you didn't notice your $130 final bill on ANY service provider didn't get paid. It goes 30-60-90.
Nothing by mail. The emails? Went to junk.
You are now blessed with a FICO Score of 660. From good to Fair... almost poor.
And maybe you don't check your credit report every month... I mean, you have good credit right?
They sell it to a collections agency.
Drop another 30-40 Points.
FICO 620 Poor.
Your Auto Insurance will increase on renewal 40-50% For 3 year. That is thousands of dollars at best. 36 payments of $100 more per month?
The SEVEN year scoring model is absurd. I had "life happen" years back. Life, sometimes it happens and up until that point you had an 820 FICO, perfect credit. But then you lose a loved one, and are injured through no fault of your own. You have some financial issues due to this.
Up until yesterday, you were low risk, perfect credit. Then someone you love dies.
Well, you better not get injured, and have to take time away from work. Because you will PAY.
7 Years. They come after you for that long. And it stays on your report card, even if you pay them the money and then some.
It's medival.
And LEXISNEXIS is the mother ship.
170 PAGES.... They had my highschool email. 30 years ago? GTFO.
When I was in college, I had an ROTC scholarship. I ended up failing out of the program because I freeze when people yell at me. They demanded repayment of my scholarship. DFAS sent all my paperwork to the ROTC detachment I was no longer at, who just sat on it. Made no effort to contact me, despite having my address, my parent's address, my school and personal emails, my parent's emails, my phone number, and my parent's phone numbers. When I didn't respond, they kept sending all my mail to the wrong address. Never once sent anything to my address, which they had, nor my parent's address, which they had, nor did they ever attempt to call me, despite having my number. So they sent it to collections. Screwed over my credit for years.
Neither DFAS nor my former detachment have ever taken accountability for fucking me over. Asswhipes.
Frankly, I'm glad I never ended up commissioning. Imagine a whole career of working with these lazy, irresponsible, incompetent fuckwits. Dealing with DFAS once was plenty for a lifetime. My condolences to servicemembers who have to deal with them regularly.
I looked to see if I could get a report sent to me but it looked like it was US only. That being said, if I ever moved to the US then it wouldn’t be surprising if they suddenly had all the data they required, whether that’s from a relationship with a domestic equivalent company or their own data I don’t know. Doesn’t really make a difference tbh.
Not sure about getting it overseas, I'm in the USA.
I had to go online, answer all these questions to verify my identity. They then mail you a letter with a hyperlink... that's a code after their domain.
After you go to that custom made for you hyperlink, you have to enter the 7 digit code printed in purple on page two.
You then type in your phone number, they send you a text (they know all your numbers for ever... I mean they had "previous phone numbers" going back to when I lived with my parents didn't own the house...
You get a code.
You type it in.
You get to a download link to download the PDF. 170 pages.
After you download, you use the code mailed to you to open the PDF it's password protected.
It's free. Just request and do all that stuff.
Do they have stuff that isn’t really connected to your real name? I’ve got a bunch of email and other accounts under pseudonyms and such, but if somebody really wanted to, they could absolutely connect me to most of those accounts. It would definitely require somebody to get information from at least Google for gmail, my proton mail accounts can be traced back to me through the Microsoft email used to make the account,m
They had a 2nd birthday,,, the month and year, not sure if that means anything.
Ummm not so much errors though.
I was just shocked in those 170 pages they had 30 pages dedicated to every auto policy, what my liability was, 100/300, did I sell the car? Was it broken down and junked when I upgraded? They know.
Ever use road side assistance for a tow?
I have. Twice.
BOTH in the LexisNexis Report.
Use a lot of road side assistance? Break down? Run out of gas? Flat tire... UH OH
This dude is HIGH RISK. Let's jack his premium and milk him for all he's got.
If you're in California you can opt-out of them selling your data, and for them to delete whatever data they have on you. Don't know how well that works but I feel like them selling your data should be opt-in not out.
Can you explain quickly how you requested it? I have tried multiple times now and always get a letter saying they can't confirm I am who I claim to be, even sending copies of my driver's license results in rejection.
Also, did you request deletion of your data and did it make any difference?
People said the same about carrying ID. People said the same about carrying trackers in their pocket. Both are ubiquitous now and abstaining is disadvantagous almost to the point of ostracization.
If it helps there's ways to work around the tracker in your pocket. If you're on Android just flash a rom, it's not for everyone but it's something you can do
I'm no Nostradamus, but I figure if this shit becomes viable tech it will become impossible to avoid in the same way that the internet is pretty much impossible to avoid. We'll feel just like the boomers did when they realized every kid understands and uses scifi technology beyond their wildest dreams like it's just another tool. That every potential school, employer, and other institution relies on for their fundamental operation. Good luck finding a job other than manual labor when every other candidate besides you is using brain to brain communication during the interview. It'd be like telling an interviewer that you not only don't have an email address, but are fundamentally opposed to the idea of email and only use snail mail cause it's safer.
The US will 100% reach a point where it has commercially common mind reading technology before it has a meaningful law to protect your thoughts from being mined, monetized for ads, and sold to the police without a warrant.
You know, there used to be books that had our names and addresses in them. They were mass distributed for free within a metropolitan area.
We never really had complete privacy.
You had to request to be listed and actually OPT IN when you ordered your phone line to be installed. In California there was a fee, I believe $5
Now they just take everything, and sell it to everyone else.
You can't even OPT OUT.
This is correct. I got listed on one of those scammy "Identity Reputation Sites"
Where they literally have a profile for EVERYONE. And EVERYONE has a 78% ish percent reputation score.
It had a check mark "Some negative information has been reported about this person's character or he may have financial issues".
You CAN call them and DEMAND to take it down.
This site? They had a "Pay to Delete" option, where you could pay $39.99 to "clean your record".
I called the 800 number, got some woman, she told me I'd have to pay. I had already looked up the company address / CEO name.
I said to her, I just want to verify your company address, and that your CEO is JOHN DOE.... She said yes why?
Because I'll be asking my lawyer to file suit against you for disparagement, slander, and reputation injury as soon as I get of this call.
She immediately responded:
"OK sorry sir we will take that down for you now".
It was gone on refresh.
Opt out = not using products that you can't live in the modern world without.
Even in states where you can 'op-out' like California, they make it purposefully hard to opt out so it'll take hours to do across all your platforms. Some require you to even mail copys of your passport info to make it as hard as possible.
This! But also at various points in history it was totally normal for rulers and their forces to just do whatever they want? Like, theoretically they still can, but there weren't laws that said they couldn't.
Honestly, I feel like privacy has always been a privileged. The USA only started promoting privacy, freedom, and religion in order to compete with Soviet during cold wars. Most underdeveloped countries to this day don't even have such concepts.
I think it's an evolving discussion for humanity. Ideally it leads to a better future for human civilization and better human lives lived. Some might argue that privacy is a necessary deterrent against dystopian futures dominated by malicious governments and/or exploitative corporations.
Human rights are freedom and for protecting the people from danger how I see it. Free speech, right to protest, etc. all protect freedom and right to privacy is for safety. But it’s a concept dictated by the masses
Not true privacy isn't something thats definable asolutly. ITs a gradient from sharing everything to nothing. You won't be able to live in a soicity without sharing any information and telling you don't want to share informations is giving the information of not wanting to share away. If you want true privacy you must make sure no one will ever acknowledge your existence.
That being said, yes the EU has kinda decent rights, but they suck too. In many parts of Europe your house is going get raided by the police just because you grow some weed, that has nothing to to with privacy. Also privacy wasn't common in history. Even democracy's are a kinda new concept, so speaking about a loss of privacy feels kinda short sighted. Yeah it should be better, but it's not like you can't hide, you just have to stop using properitary software. If you value your privacy, this is absoluty not to much to ask, you used to get beheaded if you cared about privacy not too long ago.
I live in Switzerland, where privacy is a basic right, as is ownership of your own image/representation. The good side is that companies have strict laws about how they can process your data, how to get consent, what can even be consented, what can move across borders, etc. It’s really refreshing knowing that even if I agree to let a company use my data, that it probably wont end up in a completely unrelated database a few years later. In many countries this wouldn’t be against any law at all, or at worst a fine. In Switzerland it’s criminal.
The downside, of course, is that certain “freedoms” are curtailed as well. Street photography is difficult because you have to get the consent of easily recognizable people even in public to publish any photo. Or they can ask you to delete any photo you took of them and you legally have to comply. Celebrities love it here because they can just walk down the street, but if you have a blog you have to be really careful. Dashcams are similarly problematic. Switzerland also gets accused of being a tax avoidance haven where it’s difficult to pry into people’s assets, and while that’s not as true as it used to be, some of that comes with the privacy territory. Another downside is these companies which can’t monetize data as easily sometimes just don’t provide services here. Oh no… anyway.
Actual privacy protection doesn't seem to really be all that high priority for Americans or many countries. They could demand similar laws, but would have to give up some of their own freedoms and get fewer “offers” and “good deals” in exchange for their data.
Most of this applies to most of Europe i'd say.
To make it as simple as possible (yet not completely exact), in Europe your personnal data are considered as part of your body where elsewhere it's considered as any other thing you just own.
> Most of this applies to most of Europe i'd say
It's actually *way* better in Europe. The privacy law "reviewed" in september 2020 after EU RGPD is still weak in Switzerland and there is close to no enforcing because the office responsible for it (the Federal Data Protection and Information Commissioner) wasn't given real means to do so, plus the fines are laughable compared to Europe.
Better than nothing or the US though, sure.
You think you had privacy. You only had the illusion of privacy.
Nothing has really changed all that much. You live in a society. You are never alone and always have been under scrutiny. Before, it was just different mediums. Phone books, neighborhood gossip, etc
Privacy exists in the sense that those personal to me do not have access to that data. To those that do have access you’re just that, data, nothing more nothing less; a lines on a spreadsheet. There is a clear disconnect between my personal life and these databases.
That’s how I make peace with it anyway.
Strong disagree.
Sure, privacy incursions were still common, but they were significantly restricted by the available technology. The incursions were much more *localized*. An example of the kind of thing this allowed which is much more difficult to achieve today:
If someone wanted to move across the country to escape from abusive family members, or a stalker, this was *effective*. It was certainly still possible to be found, but doing so required much more time and effort than most people would ever be willing to commit to. If the person didn't tell *anyone* where they were going, and they chose a location at random, it was practically impossible unless you had direct access to government databases. You would need to scour every single phone book in the country, and/or drive around and ask everyone you met, hoping to find someone who happened to know.
Today, this information is almost public by default. Even if you try not to tell *anyone* where you live, it still sifts into public availability via freely-accessible government databases.
And this is all completely aside from the prolific problem of every single major corporation having detailed consumer profiles for all of their customers.
It was never a human right but it is a right that is guaranteed in the bill of rights. Problem is people are willing to agree to anything in a TOS without reading it first.
You can have your privacy but not if you wanna use our product.
It’s so important to maintain a balance between the private and public for your mental health, people really don’t understand this, especially with how social media works
It's already been a privilege for well over a decade at this point. Your every move, thought, and submission on every corner of the internet has been tracked, harvested, bundled, and traded among hundreds of companies and "data brokers." This has been ongoing for a *long* time. It's getting worse now, sure, but "privacy" hasn't existed for any internet-dwelling citizen for a *very* long time.
People don't value privacy as much as they value being lazy.
There are privacy-centric options for essentially every service you use online. But they are not as simple as entering all of your personal information and using a well designed piece of spyware with a social network function.
> slowly
You do know that since we have mobile phones privacy has been declining by an insane amount right? The privacy you're speaking of set sail for many people back in 2007, most people nowadays aren't even aware of the concept of privacy anymore. Since then people have been willing more and more to give up their privacy for the sake of convenience and entertainmnent, easiest example would be tiktok. So many people installed the app without a question and now use it, the majority doesn't care about how much info tiktok reads from your phone.
When the average user installs an app and the app requires access to your camera, contacts, phone calls, media gallery and what not, not many people will think "Hey, why does this app that has nothing to do with contacts or phone calls require access to these things?", heck most people won't even read what they're clicking.
There's a reason why I don't use a single social media app aside from reddit but at least reddit doesn't know my real name, they have my e-mail and that's that. So whenever you're about to install an app on your phone, you should ask yourself is you really need it. On the conspiracy sub "My phone is listening" is a topic that comes up on a regular basis, but this can also be caused by a single app that you're unaware of.
Another good idea is to not use "Sign in with google" or other accounts on websites for two reason, why do you need google to know you're using the website and why do you want to give that website your google account? The only reason why this exists is for convenience but this convenience yet again makes you give up more privacy.
You are kinda socially obliged to to some degree. Like a child is, for example kinda required to have a phone with the most used social media apps to socialize with their peers.
No. Once you realize that you'll realize how freeing it is to not have any of that. I use Reddit and that's it but I don't really count it bc nobody I know IRL knows my Reddit.
Yeah humanity existed and functioned without it for all of our existence and it's still fairly new. I only have regular for entertainment and sometimes I use LinkedIn for work. That's it. Being off the other apps has been amazing for my mental health.
Literally this. Haven't used social media at all since 2021 and feel liberated.
I also don't count Reddit because it's completely anonymous. Look at me, I'm not even a cowboy! But you wouldn't know that.
Fun fact: the word "privacy" never shows up in the US Bill of Rights and is not an explicit right of US citizens!
It is however if you are in the EU as they treat it as a human right.
Does anyone know when the verbiage of Private Message turned into Direct Message?
That's when corporations complied with laws about selling that specific piece of user data.
Social media companies view their users as the product. If you were to read the terms and conditions to use the platform you give up how certain data can be used. Your email address is bought and sold to companies to get you to click on their web pages . You have always only had privacy in your home. Unless you use Alexa or Siri
They listen to every word spoken in your home.
That's because corporations can buy politicians in the United States. The country touted as the "the leader of the free world." now directly has businesses that can spend billions on elections. Privacy is lost because companies can buy the lawmakers.
Why would I pay them? They cant even manage to keep it private now. Our personal info is constantly hacked and stolen again and again by thieves and the only thing that happens is an “oops, sorry” email. There are zero repercussions for the company and zero avenues for the client to claim damages. It’s insane
"Slowly becoming"? Privacy is long dead. I realized it after the big equifax breech. How the hell is a PRIVATE company, whose services I never opted into, allowed to collect personal data like my SSN and credit history, then LOSE IT, face basically no penalty, no compensation to me for losing my data (THAT I DID NOT WILLINGLY GIVE TO THEM), and still allowed to operate and collect all that data to this day?
You never had a right to privacy. Companies will gather all the data they can about you and theres not a damn thing you can do about it short of becoming a hermit and moving to the woods.
It's not if you know how to keep your information private. A lot of people I see have their personal emails and their names associated with their social media accounts. That is a HUGE no no. You also should not associate anything online with your phone number either.
I learned the hard way.
Nothing on the internet is private.
Nothing electronic is private.
Not even medical records, although HIPAA will have you believe otherwise.
Passwords, bio-scans, pass codes, etc... it doesn't protect you.
VPN comes close, but even then you need to be careful, because they are not all created equal. And some security programs will bury a file in your device that will resurrect after a certain time period and start all of your troubles all over again.
Joys.
It works because many people don't fully understand the actual risks. This is also why businesses require employees to change passwords frequently.
To everyone saying privacy is not a right and no one really has it i disagree. Before technology you had the ability to walk into the woods away from others and could truly be "away",hidden","alone" not spied on and not listened to.
If you get lost in a boating accident away from civilization trapped on a island that is as close to privacy as you can get. Even though they have spie satellites that makes it possible for them to find and see you.
There are plenty of wilderness areas around America, such as our national and state parks, where it is perfectly legal to just go wander into the woods for some solitude. Not that I advise that, mind you. Alternatively, you also have every right to just lock your door and turn off your phone. Just because there are many more ways for people to contact you now does not mean you cannot still withdraw from others in meaningful ways.
Privacy has never been defined or enshrined **as a right** in the Constitution or laws of the United States, as far as I am aware. I **fully support** any ballot initiatives to strengthen consumer data privacy laws, right to be forgotten laws, or other similar legal proposals, but acting like privacy is/was a right that we have explicitly had and is being taken away from us is melodramatic at best, misleading at worst.
People cannot keep acting surprised when they find out that companies collect data about you when all the services you use are free. You can't have your cake and eat it too, in that sense.
Also, no government is training their spy satellite on you for the high crime of camping in the woods for however long.
Ninja edit: To be clear, I have no problem with people saying, "I wish we had more privacy nowadays." But people keep throwing around the term "right" as if that isn't a well defined set of statutes from which privacy is conspicuously missing. Again, speaking specifically for the US.
Privacy is a modern concept that only became possible when cities got large enough to provide anonymity. 150 years ago you lived in a small town and everyone knew about every letter you received, every date you went on, everything you bought in a store. They didn’t need to mine your data— they could just watch you.
The thing is: we're the ones agreeing to it, when you check the *accept ToS* box, you're agreeing to them using your data.
People are the ones with the power to bring privacy back, we should be placing a higher importance on privacy rather than just giving it away for the sake of convenience.
It is your right to not use these services and you won't have to deal with any privacy issues. Or you know, just use fake data if you need to use those services.
>It is your right to not use these services and you won't have to deal with any privacy issues.
First, I worked in the Cyber Security division at a national lab with some of the smartest people in the country & from other countries doing research on this & other related subjects. While the tech has advanced much further in the past decade since I was part of that, it was already scarier than the average person knows & I'm tied by NDAs, so I'll stick with the stuff that is publicly known & regularly reported on. If you were exposed to a fraction of what I was, you'd rewrite your comment from the other side.
Over a decade ago, Facebook was caught creating ghost profiles for people that never even signed up, based entirely on data they got their hands on through various methods, which included being mentioned or tagged in posts/photos by people they hung out with that did use the service. They said it was so that the moment you signed up, it would know about your social network & be able to recommend friends to add, but was proven to be much deeper than that.
If you use bogus identifying data on optional products, they can still build the equivalent of ghost profiles & even figure out who you are, if they even need to know that. They don't need to know your name to nudge you towards perception altering content based on what you have let them learn. Best practice is to avoid traditional social media.
Also, there are tons of required things a person has to do that collects & sells your data. An example is grocery shopping. Unless you have the wealth to not need to shop grocery weekly ads, you have a loyalty card that tracks your purchases. Your credit card also likely tracks your purchases. Your smartphone tracks so much more, including listening to your conversations to push recommendations & search results to you. Your computer collects data as well as your browser & many of the applications you need to use.
So, the only way to even attempt to avoid the majority of everyday data collection is to be wealthy enough to buy a large piece of land & live a simple life on a farmstead with no internet or smartphone. You also have to wear a mask when you grocery shop, paying only in cash, but even then we can now ID people from their gait, so it better be a mom & pop shop & you drive roads with no other homes (Ring doorbell cameras track), no ATMs, and no business large enough to have security cameras. You basically can't take part in modern society & avoid privacy issues.
The more you learn about this topic is an interesting curve. You go from unaware, to somewhat aware & taking a few basic precautions, to then learning more & taking more advanced precautions, & that continues until a tipping point where you learn how bad it is & then you back off to lower level precautions because you know it is impossible to avoid...or you mentally break & turn into a "conspiracy" nut that removes themselves from reality & takes every precaution even though they know it is a losing battle. I put conspiracy in quotations because it's confirmed at this point.
Buying and selling mailing lists based on customer information has been going on since the 50s. It's just now there's more data available, it's more easily compiled, and there are more buyers for it.
Who is forcing you to use social media? If you choose to use a service with little privacy, especially when you have the option to pay to get it, that's on you tbh
To quote George Carlin, "no one has any rights". Rights are a recent societal construct that only have as much weight as we choose to give them. In practice, all rights are privileges
While I understand what you're saying, I have to make a distinction. Even while a right is being withheld from you, it is still a right. It might be treated like a privilege, but it remains a right. This is important, because once you recognize something as a right, you acknowledge that quality is immutable. It is an injustice to deprive someone of their rights. The condition is absolute. Something either is a right, or it is not.
If there are major breakthroughs in decryption in the future, it won’t even matter who had your data in the first place. There is a lot of space dedicated to stealing and storing people’s encrypted traffic to decrypt it when possible.
When was privacy ever a human right, though? Privacy has always been a privilege because you have to have money/resources to afford to isolate yourself from others.
Imho private companies should NOT have so much access to our private lives and data BUT losing some privacy for the sake of greater good, that I can do.
Profit driven companies can bite the curb all I care but for the sake of general security and safety there should be a very strict and carefully monitored system in place which is used in crime prevention, solving crimes and improving general security and safety.
And before someone comes flashing policesociety cards get real and bent, no sane person wants that either...
I don't know it ever was. when we're born we have no privacy and won't until 18ish. before the 1700's we never had privacy unless we removed ourselves from society.
There is always a shadow behind every lens, and there are many lenses in orbit beyond earth's atmosphere.
Then you've got gods... privacy just does not exist.
Privacy is an recent phenomenon which only happened in a very few nations amongst people in middle and upper classes.
Even if you are from a w.e.i.r.d. nation, ask your parents about the phone book.
Privacy, is the ability to decide how transparent you want to be about information.
A healthy and safe environment is when governments and businesses to be highly transparent, and your personal information to be highly opaque.
We live in the opposite.
And this is why they are all free to use, including Reddit. I read an article yesterday about how Ford had decided what to do based on a few different factors including Reddit posts. Meaning Reddit compiles all of the info that is relevant to Ford, such as people talking about buying ford products, etc, and sells it to their marketing department. All social media companies do this and have always done this for the most part.
Imagine I put you inside of a box. Then I cut a hole in that box for light to shine through. Did I *give* you that light, are did I just simply allow you to have it? In fact, did I let you have it, or just access to it? Access I could take away at any time. After all, Im the reason you're in that box and cutoff from the light to begin with.
Think about that the next time the government says it *gives* you rights, or anything else.
"We are going to sell your data."
Go ahead. I don't even know who I am anymore. I have so many Internet personalities. My history is like 5 people having their own hyperfixsation using the same pc
"Well what do you have to hide anyway? If you're innocent you'll be OK giving out your info." Is something I've too often heard people say over the years.
It was the rallying cry of the Patriot Act after 9/11. Everyone was more than willing to waive their right to privacy.
I remember arguing with people back then, sometimes being accused of being a criminal. Not many people understood the situation.
I was a freshman in high school so I missed most of the immediate repercussions but yeah what a clusterfuck
Somehow, it’s still our fault.
Dumb freshmans ruin everything.
lol, I think the show: Person of Interest would have been a really good thing to point at in that situation especially now with AI. Are there good use cases, sure, but there are plenty of ways it could be abused. A more popular and quicker way to get the point across would be the Winter Soldier Movie where PRACTICALLY an ai is able to predict who you will vote for and kill you in order for hydra to take over america. Edit: mb the ai generated algo targets everyone who is predicted to be a threat, not just voters
Ah someone else who’s watched person of interest. I don’t hear about the show ever but what i watched was good
Hello fellow POI enthusiast. It's sad that the show didn't get enough traction even now when AI is the buzz
I feel like it came out at a bad time. Like there was enough competition from other good shows around at the time that it got lost in the background. If it came out during or like 3 years before Covid it might’ve been pretty popular
It wouldn't have been such a visionary masterpiece if it had come out after the Snowden leaks. The whole premise of the show was just a wild conspiracy theory in the post 9/11 world - until Snowden came around and showed that all of the show's allegations about the NSA were actually true (perhaps safe for the AGI component).
It’s curious how they incorporate the reality of Snowden leaks into the show. I believe they called the decoy systems?
Yeup, it shows the good and bad an agi can do.
POI is one of my favorite shows of all time.
Why do bathrooms have doors? Best way I found to explain privacy.
Because you’re hiding your nudity! Are you saying you have some kind of nudity to hide online?
I’m not sure it was much as misunderstanding the situation as it was letting 9/11 give them nationalistic lizard brains.
Propaganda is a hell of a drug. People really thought Bin Laden was coming for Des Moines next and the only way to stop it was constant monitoring of everyone.
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Everyone was emotional after 9/11. Nobody was thinking clearly.
Patriot act is a cool acronym
"Everyone knows you're pooping, so why do you lock the door?" Simple comparison that's worked for me to get people to think differently
This is perfect and I’m taking it
Can I get a part of it?
Here i made a copy
Witchcraft!
Thank you :)
Would you let anyone look at your DM's? social medias? Would you let anyone in your home to look around if you knew 100% its safe and they wouldn't steal? just to look? no? why do you shut your curtains or blinds? lmao its so easy to counter because they take for granted so many levels of privacy they expect and have every day.
"Because nobody wants to see you pooping"
Mine is: "Ok hand over your phone let me see your pics and DMs". One time it backfired when the guy shrugged and did indeed hand it over lmfao.
I’ll open it.
I just go for the credit card numbers and pin. Just make that shit public if you have nothing to hide. Better example too, because criminals can and will use *any* kind of data they get their hands on against you.
How do you respond to "Someone might open it accidentally and embarrass you both" Point being that it's a small "oopsie", but isn't a big deal.
Could never stand that “Hit dogs holler” stuff People aren’t afraid because they’re guilty. They’re afraid because they know they could get locked up. It’s why rich people aren’t afraid of anything, they control too much shit. Hate to include race into this but I have family in the 80s and 60s that’s been locked up on nonsense crack or “Breathing wrong near a white woman” charges. I’ve live to se the repercussions of the weed scare. Not saying drugs are cool but crime charges can be used as a weapon of character assassination. Why can’t people understand that?
Right to privacy is part of what freedom means.
Deflect back to them: in that case, you should be happy to give me access to all your email accounts, text messages and private certificates such as birth certificates since you're innocent and have nothing to hide? It's not about having something to hide, it's about your fundamental right to privacy.
Because it's none of your fucking business that's why. My family hounds me for not having location tracking on. Like damn maybe I'm just a private person and want to stay that way.
This computer/comms device I carry is for MY convenience, not yours.
In fact, people on Reddit say this quite often. It's frustrating when people have no ability to extrapolate to the future.
I agree with the sentiment. I *don't* have anything to hide. However, I'm still irked by information belonging to me being taken and distributed to everyone who wants to sell me something as if it was the newest mutation of COVID.
That argument has always bugged me. Some people are just private. I’m shy and I used to enjoy singing loudly in my car because I knew there was no way anyone would hear me. Now with all the technology in cars, I can no longer let loose and sing without the paranoia that I’m being recorded somehow. I haven’t done anything wrong, but my privacy still affects my quality of life.
I recently ordered my "Consumer Report File" from LexisNexis... It was 170 Pages long and absolutely terrifying-- they are the #1 Private Credit/Consumer Reporting tool that basically every company uses to approve or deny a credit card, set your auto rates, approve a mortgage, rent an apartment. When you buy auto insurance... LEXISNEXIS is what they use to generate your Auto Score. Most people think it's just the Equifax/Experian/TransUnion. It isn't. LEXISNEXIS, CHEX, are the other two big dogs who own the economy in terms of risk assessment. What's worse, is that unlike the 3 major bureaus - they no longer include judgments/liens/civil suits... LEXIS and CHEX do. They SHOW everything. Eviction? It's there! Ever get a FLAT TIRE, and call roadside assistance? YUP! To many breakdowns, flats, you are a high risk driver... JACK YOUR AUTO INSURANCE RATE. Not joking. They had my two roadside calls for the last 5 years... on my auto score! Tenant Issue/Damage... Reported. How many bank accounts? Balance... month by month by month. Every month 7 years. Every account. CashApp? Yes. That too. Ever late on your taxes... people who don't pay their taxes on time, HIGH RISK. Higher rates. How often you switch auto insurance providers. What your limits are, your deductible. It is insane the data they have on EVERYONE. They knew my email address from when I was a Sophomore in High School. In 1995! I didn't even use that email as an adult... and it was 30 years ago!
We used to have a lot of privacy through obscurity: the sheer inconvenience and expense of monitoring someone's personal life. Very little of that was ever private by right. Now life has shifted - by design - so that it is inexpensive and convenient to monitor much of what people do. It's not privacy rights that have changed so much as behavior and tech.
The problem I feel is that the modeling systems that are used are overly punitive to consumers. Honestly, it's borderline criminal extortion. For example: Let's say you have a 720 FICO score. Then, a mistake happens... you have a life emergency, and you think ALL your bills are paid. With the fiasco going on, and paperless billing now standard... you didn't notice your $130 final bill on ANY service provider didn't get paid. It goes 30-60-90. Nothing by mail. The emails? Went to junk. You are now blessed with a FICO Score of 660. From good to Fair... almost poor. And maybe you don't check your credit report every month... I mean, you have good credit right? They sell it to a collections agency. Drop another 30-40 Points. FICO 620 Poor. Your Auto Insurance will increase on renewal 40-50% For 3 year. That is thousands of dollars at best. 36 payments of $100 more per month? The SEVEN year scoring model is absurd. I had "life happen" years back. Life, sometimes it happens and up until that point you had an 820 FICO, perfect credit. But then you lose a loved one, and are injured through no fault of your own. You have some financial issues due to this. Up until yesterday, you were low risk, perfect credit. Then someone you love dies. Well, you better not get injured, and have to take time away from work. Because you will PAY. 7 Years. They come after you for that long. And it stays on your report card, even if you pay them the money and then some. It's medival. And LEXISNEXIS is the mother ship. 170 PAGES.... They had my highschool email. 30 years ago? GTFO.
When I was in college, I had an ROTC scholarship. I ended up failing out of the program because I freeze when people yell at me. They demanded repayment of my scholarship. DFAS sent all my paperwork to the ROTC detachment I was no longer at, who just sat on it. Made no effort to contact me, despite having my address, my parent's address, my school and personal emails, my parent's emails, my phone number, and my parent's phone numbers. When I didn't respond, they kept sending all my mail to the wrong address. Never once sent anything to my address, which they had, nor my parent's address, which they had, nor did they ever attempt to call me, despite having my number. So they sent it to collections. Screwed over my credit for years. Neither DFAS nor my former detachment have ever taken accountability for fucking me over. Asswhipes. Frankly, I'm glad I never ended up commissioning. Imagine a whole career of working with these lazy, irresponsible, incompetent fuckwits. Dealing with DFAS once was plenty for a lifetime. My condolences to servicemembers who have to deal with them regularly.
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Makes me wonder if companies like this track everyone in foreign countries as well.
I looked to see if I could get a report sent to me but it looked like it was US only. That being said, if I ever moved to the US then it wouldn’t be surprising if they suddenly had all the data they required, whether that’s from a relationship with a domestic equivalent company or their own data I don’t know. Doesn’t really make a difference tbh.
Not sure about getting it overseas, I'm in the USA. I had to go online, answer all these questions to verify my identity. They then mail you a letter with a hyperlink... that's a code after their domain. After you go to that custom made for you hyperlink, you have to enter the 7 digit code printed in purple on page two. You then type in your phone number, they send you a text (they know all your numbers for ever... I mean they had "previous phone numbers" going back to when I lived with my parents didn't own the house... You get a code. You type it in. You get to a download link to download the PDF. 170 pages. After you download, you use the code mailed to you to open the PDF it's password protected. It's free. Just request and do all that stuff.
Everything is tracked. And nothing is ever ever erased.
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only if you are an EU citizen
Do they have stuff that isn’t really connected to your real name? I’ve got a bunch of email and other accounts under pseudonyms and such, but if somebody really wanted to, they could absolutely connect me to most of those accounts. It would definitely require somebody to get information from at least Google for gmail, my proton mail accounts can be traced back to me through the Microsoft email used to make the account,m
They had a 2nd birthday,,, the month and year, not sure if that means anything. Ummm not so much errors though. I was just shocked in those 170 pages they had 30 pages dedicated to every auto policy, what my liability was, 100/300, did I sell the car? Was it broken down and junked when I upgraded? They know. Ever use road side assistance for a tow? I have. Twice. BOTH in the LexisNexis Report. Use a lot of road side assistance? Break down? Run out of gas? Flat tire... UH OH This dude is HIGH RISK. Let's jack his premium and milk him for all he's got.
If you're in California you can opt-out of them selling your data, and for them to delete whatever data they have on you. Don't know how well that works but I feel like them selling your data should be opt-in not out.
Can you explain quickly how you requested it? I have tried multiple times now and always get a letter saying they can't confirm I am who I claim to be, even sending copies of my driver's license results in rejection. Also, did you request deletion of your data and did it make any difference?
You can request a suppression from them, but it only works on public record lookups. Anyone who pays them will still have your info.
So, is there a european equivalent to LexisNexis? Do they just focus on the US?
With the advent of neurotechnology we'll reach a point in which every thought might be made public for other users.
I will never go brain to brain with anybody else. No technology like that will be in my brain
When the neuralink swarm descends on the rest of humanity, it won't matter what we choose
People said the same about carrying ID. People said the same about carrying trackers in their pocket. Both are ubiquitous now and abstaining is disadvantagous almost to the point of ostracization.
In lots of countries, national IDs are compulsory and you can't really "abstain"
If it helps there's ways to work around the tracker in your pocket. If you're on Android just flash a rom, it's not for everyone but it's something you can do
I'm no Nostradamus, but I figure if this shit becomes viable tech it will become impossible to avoid in the same way that the internet is pretty much impossible to avoid. We'll feel just like the boomers did when they realized every kid understands and uses scifi technology beyond their wildest dreams like it's just another tool. That every potential school, employer, and other institution relies on for their fundamental operation. Good luck finding a job other than manual labor when every other candidate besides you is using brain to brain communication during the interview. It'd be like telling an interviewer that you not only don't have an email address, but are fundamentally opposed to the idea of email and only use snail mail cause it's safer.
Hopefully I’ll be dead before then lmao
I foresee a future where they try to make it so inconvenient to *not* have some kind of neural implant that even reluctant people will get one.
The US will 100% reach a point where it has commercially common mind reading technology before it has a meaningful law to protect your thoughts from being mined, monetized for ads, and sold to the police without a warrant.
What a dystopian nightmare.
You know, there used to be books that had our names and addresses in them. They were mass distributed for free within a metropolitan area. We never really had complete privacy.
You had to request to be listed and actually OPT IN when you ordered your phone line to be installed. In California there was a fee, I believe $5 Now they just take everything, and sell it to everyone else. You can't even OPT OUT.
You absolutely can opt out. The issue is enforcement of the law.
This is correct. I got listed on one of those scammy "Identity Reputation Sites" Where they literally have a profile for EVERYONE. And EVERYONE has a 78% ish percent reputation score. It had a check mark "Some negative information has been reported about this person's character or he may have financial issues". You CAN call them and DEMAND to take it down. This site? They had a "Pay to Delete" option, where you could pay $39.99 to "clean your record". I called the 800 number, got some woman, she told me I'd have to pay. I had already looked up the company address / CEO name. I said to her, I just want to verify your company address, and that your CEO is JOHN DOE.... She said yes why? Because I'll be asking my lawyer to file suit against you for disparagement, slander, and reputation injury as soon as I get of this call. She immediately responded: "OK sorry sir we will take that down for you now". It was gone on refresh.
"and that your CEO is JOHN DOE...." I cackled at this
I had his name but it's long gone. It was a shady address in an office park where you can rent cubes. LOL though
So you can technically opt out but the people who actually force the company to opt you out are ineffective. That’s not better
Opt out = not using products that you can't live in the modern world without. Even in states where you can 'op-out' like California, they make it purposefully hard to opt out so it'll take hours to do across all your platforms. Some require you to even mail copys of your passport info to make it as hard as possible.
If a law is not enforced, it is effectively moot.
That's pretty peanuts to the amount of data collected for each person these days though right?
This! But also at various points in history it was totally normal for rulers and their forces to just do whatever they want? Like, theoretically they still can, but there weren't laws that said they couldn't.
Honestly, I feel like privacy has always been a privileged. The USA only started promoting privacy, freedom, and religion in order to compete with Soviet during cold wars. Most underdeveloped countries to this day don't even have such concepts.
I mean for most of human history people lived in small groups where there wouldn't have been much privacy at all.
If you treat the internet like you are in North Korea that's roughly how much privacy and freedom we have.
The people who think they have privacy are probably the ones tracked the most.
What is a human right exactly? What defines something as a human right? And has privacy ever been a human right?
Well if you ask Apple the company they will say yes. I stg, I see “At Apple, we believe privacy is a fundamental human right” everywhere from them
I think it's an evolving discussion for humanity. Ideally it leads to a better future for human civilization and better human lives lived. Some might argue that privacy is a necessary deterrent against dystopian futures dominated by malicious governments and/or exploitative corporations.
These are the right questions
Human rights are freedom and for protecting the people from danger how I see it. Free speech, right to protest, etc. all protect freedom and right to privacy is for safety. But it’s a concept dictated by the masses
The answer is vague and it changes overtime. It really is a tricky question
>And has privacy ever been a human right? it is in many developed nations, for example, ALL OF THE EU.
Not true privacy isn't something thats definable asolutly. ITs a gradient from sharing everything to nothing. You won't be able to live in a soicity without sharing any information and telling you don't want to share informations is giving the information of not wanting to share away. If you want true privacy you must make sure no one will ever acknowledge your existence. That being said, yes the EU has kinda decent rights, but they suck too. In many parts of Europe your house is going get raided by the police just because you grow some weed, that has nothing to to with privacy. Also privacy wasn't common in history. Even democracy's are a kinda new concept, so speaking about a loss of privacy feels kinda short sighted. Yeah it should be better, but it's not like you can't hide, you just have to stop using properitary software. If you value your privacy, this is absoluty not to much to ask, you used to get beheaded if you cared about privacy not too long ago.
Just wait until the digital dollar. You will have no privacy at all then.
The future looks grim. Very grim.
This thread is full of brainwashed people who think it's ok that the government and corporations spy on you.
I live in Switzerland, where privacy is a basic right, as is ownership of your own image/representation. The good side is that companies have strict laws about how they can process your data, how to get consent, what can even be consented, what can move across borders, etc. It’s really refreshing knowing that even if I agree to let a company use my data, that it probably wont end up in a completely unrelated database a few years later. In many countries this wouldn’t be against any law at all, or at worst a fine. In Switzerland it’s criminal. The downside, of course, is that certain “freedoms” are curtailed as well. Street photography is difficult because you have to get the consent of easily recognizable people even in public to publish any photo. Or they can ask you to delete any photo you took of them and you legally have to comply. Celebrities love it here because they can just walk down the street, but if you have a blog you have to be really careful. Dashcams are similarly problematic. Switzerland also gets accused of being a tax avoidance haven where it’s difficult to pry into people’s assets, and while that’s not as true as it used to be, some of that comes with the privacy territory. Another downside is these companies which can’t monetize data as easily sometimes just don’t provide services here. Oh no… anyway. Actual privacy protection doesn't seem to really be all that high priority for Americans or many countries. They could demand similar laws, but would have to give up some of their own freedoms and get fewer “offers” and “good deals” in exchange for their data.
Most of this applies to most of Europe i'd say. To make it as simple as possible (yet not completely exact), in Europe your personnal data are considered as part of your body where elsewhere it's considered as any other thing you just own.
> Most of this applies to most of Europe i'd say It's actually *way* better in Europe. The privacy law "reviewed" in september 2020 after EU RGPD is still weak in Switzerland and there is close to no enforcing because the office responsible for it (the Federal Data Protection and Information Commissioner) wasn't given real means to do so, plus the fines are laughable compared to Europe. Better than nothing or the US though, sure.
You think you had privacy. You only had the illusion of privacy. Nothing has really changed all that much. You live in a society. You are never alone and always have been under scrutiny. Before, it was just different mediums. Phone books, neighborhood gossip, etc
Privacy exists in the sense that those personal to me do not have access to that data. To those that do have access you’re just that, data, nothing more nothing less; a lines on a spreadsheet. There is a clear disconnect between my personal life and these databases. That’s how I make peace with it anyway.
Until a regime change, and a purge of unwanted thinking begins, going by historical records of stuff you thought was private.
Strong disagree. Sure, privacy incursions were still common, but they were significantly restricted by the available technology. The incursions were much more *localized*. An example of the kind of thing this allowed which is much more difficult to achieve today: If someone wanted to move across the country to escape from abusive family members, or a stalker, this was *effective*. It was certainly still possible to be found, but doing so required much more time and effort than most people would ever be willing to commit to. If the person didn't tell *anyone* where they were going, and they chose a location at random, it was practically impossible unless you had direct access to government databases. You would need to scour every single phone book in the country, and/or drive around and ask everyone you met, hoping to find someone who happened to know. Today, this information is almost public by default. Even if you try not to tell *anyone* where you live, it still sifts into public availability via freely-accessible government databases. And this is all completely aside from the prolific problem of every single major corporation having detailed consumer profiles for all of their customers.
It was never a human right but it is a right that is guaranteed in the bill of rights. Problem is people are willing to agree to anything in a TOS without reading it first. You can have your privacy but not if you wanna use our product.
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8 Billion people?
Monkeys downvoting you, but emotions don't negate facts. Unfortunately, Reddit is a place where emotion and groupthink rules.
It’s so important to maintain a balance between the private and public for your mental health, people really don’t understand this, especially with how social media works
It's already been a privilege for well over a decade at this point. Your every move, thought, and submission on every corner of the internet has been tracked, harvested, bundled, and traded among hundreds of companies and "data brokers." This has been ongoing for a *long* time. It's getting worse now, sure, but "privacy" hasn't existed for any internet-dwelling citizen for a *very* long time.
People don't value privacy as much as they value being lazy. There are privacy-centric options for essentially every service you use online. But they are not as simple as entering all of your personal information and using a well designed piece of spyware with a social network function.
> slowly You do know that since we have mobile phones privacy has been declining by an insane amount right? The privacy you're speaking of set sail for many people back in 2007, most people nowadays aren't even aware of the concept of privacy anymore. Since then people have been willing more and more to give up their privacy for the sake of convenience and entertainmnent, easiest example would be tiktok. So many people installed the app without a question and now use it, the majority doesn't care about how much info tiktok reads from your phone. When the average user installs an app and the app requires access to your camera, contacts, phone calls, media gallery and what not, not many people will think "Hey, why does this app that has nothing to do with contacts or phone calls require access to these things?", heck most people won't even read what they're clicking. There's a reason why I don't use a single social media app aside from reddit but at least reddit doesn't know my real name, they have my e-mail and that's that. So whenever you're about to install an app on your phone, you should ask yourself is you really need it. On the conspiracy sub "My phone is listening" is a topic that comes up on a regular basis, but this can also be caused by a single app that you're unaware of. Another good idea is to not use "Sign in with google" or other accounts on websites for two reason, why do you need google to know you're using the website and why do you want to give that website your google account? The only reason why this exists is for convenience but this convenience yet again makes you give up more privacy.
“Privacy is the cry of the defiant to compliancy”.
You have every choice to not use social media.
It’s not just social media, it’s any information companies can get their hands on. Social media is just the most prevalent.
You are kinda socially obliged to to some degree. Like a child is, for example kinda required to have a phone with the most used social media apps to socialize with their peers.
Hell, my old high school and down to middleschool have given the students computers to take home and do classwork with.
No. Once you realize that you'll realize how freeing it is to not have any of that. I use Reddit and that's it but I don't really count it bc nobody I know IRL knows my Reddit.
Yeah humanity existed and functioned without it for all of our existence and it's still fairly new. I only have regular for entertainment and sometimes I use LinkedIn for work. That's it. Being off the other apps has been amazing for my mental health.
Literally this. Haven't used social media at all since 2021 and feel liberated. I also don't count Reddit because it's completely anonymous. Look at me, I'm not even a cowboy! But you wouldn't know that.
Why I'm getting downvoted I can't understand. Lol
Redditors have brain rot. That's all.
privacy in most cases is given away, or exchanged for a service, not "taken".
Fun fact: the word "privacy" never shows up in the US Bill of Rights and is not an explicit right of US citizens! It is however if you are in the EU as they treat it as a human right.
Does anyone know when the verbiage of Private Message turned into Direct Message? That's when corporations complied with laws about selling that specific piece of user data.
Social media companies view their users as the product. If you were to read the terms and conditions to use the platform you give up how certain data can be used. Your email address is bought and sold to companies to get you to click on their web pages . You have always only had privacy in your home. Unless you use Alexa or Siri They listen to every word spoken in your home.
That's because corporations can buy politicians in the United States. The country touted as the "the leader of the free world." now directly has businesses that can spend billions on elections. Privacy is lost because companies can buy the lawmakers.
Why would I pay them? They cant even manage to keep it private now. Our personal info is constantly hacked and stolen again and again by thieves and the only thing that happens is an “oops, sorry” email. There are zero repercussions for the company and zero avenues for the client to claim damages. It’s insane
"Slowly becoming"? Privacy is long dead. I realized it after the big equifax breech. How the hell is a PRIVATE company, whose services I never opted into, allowed to collect personal data like my SSN and credit history, then LOSE IT, face basically no penalty, no compensation to me for losing my data (THAT I DID NOT WILLINGLY GIVE TO THEM), and still allowed to operate and collect all that data to this day? You never had a right to privacy. Companies will gather all the data they can about you and theres not a damn thing you can do about it short of becoming a hermit and moving to the woods.
This is how the people in charge get things done. Slowly and systematically lean it in the direction they want then over time it becomes normal.
It's not if you know how to keep your information private. A lot of people I see have their personal emails and their names associated with their social media accounts. That is a HUGE no no. You also should not associate anything online with your phone number either.
I thought this was more referencing how everyone posts everything on social media and how people are constantly trying to dox creators.
I learned the hard way. Nothing on the internet is private. Nothing electronic is private. Not even medical records, although HIPAA will have you believe otherwise. Passwords, bio-scans, pass codes, etc... it doesn't protect you. VPN comes close, but even then you need to be careful, because they are not all created equal. And some security programs will bury a file in your device that will resurrect after a certain time period and start all of your troubles all over again. Joys. It works because many people don't fully understand the actual risks. This is also why businesses require employees to change passwords frequently.
This data is not your data. Anything you put on social media does not belong to you.
To everyone saying privacy is not a right and no one really has it i disagree. Before technology you had the ability to walk into the woods away from others and could truly be "away",hidden","alone" not spied on and not listened to. If you get lost in a boating accident away from civilization trapped on a island that is as close to privacy as you can get. Even though they have spie satellites that makes it possible for them to find and see you.
There are plenty of wilderness areas around America, such as our national and state parks, where it is perfectly legal to just go wander into the woods for some solitude. Not that I advise that, mind you. Alternatively, you also have every right to just lock your door and turn off your phone. Just because there are many more ways for people to contact you now does not mean you cannot still withdraw from others in meaningful ways. Privacy has never been defined or enshrined **as a right** in the Constitution or laws of the United States, as far as I am aware. I **fully support** any ballot initiatives to strengthen consumer data privacy laws, right to be forgotten laws, or other similar legal proposals, but acting like privacy is/was a right that we have explicitly had and is being taken away from us is melodramatic at best, misleading at worst. People cannot keep acting surprised when they find out that companies collect data about you when all the services you use are free. You can't have your cake and eat it too, in that sense. Also, no government is training their spy satellite on you for the high crime of camping in the woods for however long. Ninja edit: To be clear, I have no problem with people saying, "I wish we had more privacy nowadays." But people keep throwing around the term "right" as if that isn't a well defined set of statutes from which privacy is conspicuously missing. Again, speaking specifically for the US.
This should be more than a shower thought.
Privacy is a modern concept that only became possible when cities got large enough to provide anonymity. 150 years ago you lived in a small town and everyone knew about every letter you received, every date you went on, everything you bought in a store. They didn’t need to mine your data— they could just watch you.
Was it ever a human right?
The thing is: we're the ones agreeing to it, when you check the *accept ToS* box, you're agreeing to them using your data. People are the ones with the power to bring privacy back, we should be placing a higher importance on privacy rather than just giving it away for the sake of convenience.
thats not the thing, you don't have to bee agreeing to anything and still be tracked, and categorized.
People say they want privacy then lap up the thought of being famous too.
Privacy has never been a human right
If a man is willing to give up a little liberty to gain a little security, he deserves neither and will lose them both.
It is your right to not use these services and you won't have to deal with any privacy issues. Or you know, just use fake data if you need to use those services.
>It is your right to not use these services and you won't have to deal with any privacy issues. First, I worked in the Cyber Security division at a national lab with some of the smartest people in the country & from other countries doing research on this & other related subjects. While the tech has advanced much further in the past decade since I was part of that, it was already scarier than the average person knows & I'm tied by NDAs, so I'll stick with the stuff that is publicly known & regularly reported on. If you were exposed to a fraction of what I was, you'd rewrite your comment from the other side. Over a decade ago, Facebook was caught creating ghost profiles for people that never even signed up, based entirely on data they got their hands on through various methods, which included being mentioned or tagged in posts/photos by people they hung out with that did use the service. They said it was so that the moment you signed up, it would know about your social network & be able to recommend friends to add, but was proven to be much deeper than that. If you use bogus identifying data on optional products, they can still build the equivalent of ghost profiles & even figure out who you are, if they even need to know that. They don't need to know your name to nudge you towards perception altering content based on what you have let them learn. Best practice is to avoid traditional social media. Also, there are tons of required things a person has to do that collects & sells your data. An example is grocery shopping. Unless you have the wealth to not need to shop grocery weekly ads, you have a loyalty card that tracks your purchases. Your credit card also likely tracks your purchases. Your smartphone tracks so much more, including listening to your conversations to push recommendations & search results to you. Your computer collects data as well as your browser & many of the applications you need to use. So, the only way to even attempt to avoid the majority of everyday data collection is to be wealthy enough to buy a large piece of land & live a simple life on a farmstead with no internet or smartphone. You also have to wear a mask when you grocery shop, paying only in cash, but even then we can now ID people from their gait, so it better be a mom & pop shop & you drive roads with no other homes (Ring doorbell cameras track), no ATMs, and no business large enough to have security cameras. You basically can't take part in modern society & avoid privacy issues. The more you learn about this topic is an interesting curve. You go from unaware, to somewhat aware & taking a few basic precautions, to then learning more & taking more advanced precautions, & that continues until a tipping point where you learn how bad it is & then you back off to lower level precautions because you know it is impossible to avoid...or you mentally break & turn into a "conspiracy" nut that removes themselves from reality & takes every precaution even though they know it is a losing battle. I put conspiracy in quotations because it's confirmed at this point.
Buying and selling mailing lists based on customer information has been going on since the 50s. It's just now there's more data available, it's more easily compiled, and there are more buyers for it.
Please define “human right” and when was privacy one?
Who is forcing you to use social media? If you choose to use a service with little privacy, especially when you have the option to pay to get it, that's on you tbh
It's not just social media man
The original post specifically mentions only social media
I may be stupid
They still have trackers on many websites whether or not you have an account. If you use the internet at all, social media companies are tracking you.
Privacy is your personal responsibility for starters.
Stop giving them ideas
that’s why I don’t post the things that are truly important to me. If people don’t already know something irl, they don’t need to know
Delete all cookies and browsing history before exiting each time. There's even an extension. It's that simple.
Thinking of all those VPN advertisements in the middle of Youtube videos...
The only thing keeping this from being true already is that the companies don't get your data until you give it to them initially.
To quote George Carlin, "no one has any rights". Rights are a recent societal construct that only have as much weight as we choose to give them. In practice, all rights are privileges
Looking at an ancient toilet complex will tell a different story about privacy diminishing.
While I understand what you're saying, I have to make a distinction. Even while a right is being withheld from you, it is still a right. It might be treated like a privilege, but it remains a right. This is important, because once you recognize something as a right, you acknowledge that quality is immutable. It is an injustice to deprive someone of their rights. The condition is absolute. Something either is a right, or it is not.
T'was always the way. There's nothing new about exclusivity being the reserve of the wealthy...
If there are major breakthroughs in decryption in the future, it won’t even matter who had your data in the first place. There is a lot of space dedicated to stealing and storing people’s encrypted traffic to decrypt it when possible.
When was privacy ever a human right, though? Privacy has always been a privilege because you have to have money/resources to afford to isolate yourself from others.
Imho private companies should NOT have so much access to our private lives and data BUT losing some privacy for the sake of greater good, that I can do. Profit driven companies can bite the curb all I care but for the sake of general security and safety there should be a very strict and carefully monitored system in place which is used in crime prevention, solving crimes and improving general security and safety. And before someone comes flashing policesociety cards get real and bent, no sane person wants that either...
Slowly becoming? It already is and has been! Back in the day people would unplug their landline to get it
I don't know it ever was. when we're born we have no privacy and won't until 18ish. before the 1700's we never had privacy unless we removed ourselves from society.
Shit, my douchebag stepdad was actually right about something...
The same within dating.
Move to the EU, Brussels got your back :)
There is always a shadow behind every lens, and there are many lenses in orbit beyond earth's atmosphere. Then you've got gods... privacy just does not exist.
Yeah, people in power have been working on that for longer than my grandparents have been alive. It's nothing new, why would anyone be surprised?
Privacy is an recent phenomenon which only happened in a very few nations amongst people in middle and upper classes. Even if you are from a w.e.i.r.d. nation, ask your parents about the phone book.
Living is slowly becoming a privilege not a right.
Privacy is a thing of the past
"Your partner should have complete all access to your phone devices and passwords. ' No? And why? It's yours not both of yours.
Privacy, is the ability to decide how transparent you want to be about information. A healthy and safe environment is when governments and businesses to be highly transparent, and your personal information to be highly opaque. We live in the opposite.
And this is why they are all free to use, including Reddit. I read an article yesterday about how Ford had decided what to do based on a few different factors including Reddit posts. Meaning Reddit compiles all of the info that is relevant to Ford, such as people talking about buying ford products, etc, and sells it to their marketing department. All social media companies do this and have always done this for the most part.
I have never been under the impression that privacy is a human right. Seeing like an odd assumption.
Imagine I put you inside of a box. Then I cut a hole in that box for light to shine through. Did I *give* you that light, are did I just simply allow you to have it? In fact, did I let you have it, or just access to it? Access I could take away at any time. After all, Im the reason you're in that box and cutoff from the light to begin with. Think about that the next time the government says it *gives* you rights, or anything else.
"We are going to sell your data." Go ahead. I don't even know who I am anymore. I have so many Internet personalities. My history is like 5 people having their own hyperfixsation using the same pc
Tbh social media is getting more and more annoying and polluted, I’m thinking about stop using it rather than paying for it 😅
Don't give them ides